Tesla To Install Chargers At Dozens Of Manhattan Parking Garages

AUG 22 2015 BY MARK KANE 38

Tesla Wall Connector

Tesla Wall Connector

The city of Manhattan struggles with lack of charging stations.

In many cases this prevents people from buying EVs, as every owner should have an available parking place with charging capability.

In a story in the New York Times, one of the owners is charging his brand new P85D in a garage 15 blocks away from his apartment from an ordinary wall socket, because he hasn’t found a better solution yet.

Tesla Motors, beside installing Superchargers along main routes, and destination AC charging stations (up to 20 kW) in places like hotels, intends to begin a new campaign in Manhattan with destination charging station in garages.

The project will begin with two dozen garages around Manhattan (from Wall Street up to 94th Street), where Model S owners will be able to charge every day. Those charging points will not necessarily be free, but home charging stations and energy are not free either.

Alexis Georgeson, a Tesla spokeswoman, said:

“We wanted to move to an urban charging network that meets the needs of those who live in apartments or commute into a big city. Naturally, Manhattan was the place to try this for the first time.”

Source: The New York Times

Categories: Charging, Tesla

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38 Comments on "Tesla To Install Chargers At Dozens Of Manhattan Parking Garages"

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I wish all the parking garages would install a bunch of L1 or L2 chargers, or just 120V outlets.

John Hansen

I don’t think 120v outlets would be very good. It would to too inconvenient to pull out your EVSE every day and worry about it being stolen, etc.

For most days, L1 would be fine, but it would be very helpful to have the option to charger faster sometimes. The flip side of that is that having a bunch of people plug in at 8am and use 10kW each would require pretty heavy duty wiring and might increase peak use.

So here’s an idea, how about the chargers have a fast option and a slow option, and the fast option costs more per kW than the slow option. The interface could say “Slow: 7c/kWh, done at 2:30pm” and “Fast: 12c/kWh, done at 10:15am”. Or even better, just default to the slow, and you could press an extra button to switch to the fast if you wanted it (actually kind of like the Chevy Volt).

Anyways, I’m just letting my mind wander…

Anonymous

Be careful. That’s starting to make too much sense.

I agree but they should also make it with the J1772 port and allow only L1 charge to Non Tesla vehicles. For Tesla vehicles, allow up to L2 and allow to set charge rate of speed.
That way if you burned 9KWh of juice, you can set the charge for ~1KW/hr charge rate so you can stay parked in that spot all day.

Well, I’d take 120V outlets over no outlets.

Pushmi-Pullyu

John Hansen said:

“I don’t think 120v outlets would be very good. It would to too inconvenient to pull out your EVSE every day and worry about it being stolen, etc.”

The most affordable charging solution for the property owner, and city governments, would be the EV-Line charging system. This involves installing a 220v outlet with a wirelessly controlled off/on switch, and a “smart” portable EVSE carried in the PEV. The driver uses the EVSE to scan a barcode on the outlet, and the wifi-enabled EVSE turns on the outlet and bills the car owner for the electricity consumed.

Yes, theft of the portable EVSE is a possibility. Nothing is perfect.

I suppose the future lies with wireless charging, altho I personally don’t favor the loss of efficiency involved. This would have several advantages, including allowing self-driving cars to drive to their parking place, and charge without needing a complex and expensive robotic charging arm. burying the charger in a concrete floor would also virtually eliminate any theft, altho would be much more expensive to install.

The wireless charges being developed now are on par with the efficiency of J1772 EVSEs.

Pushmi-Pullyu

Okay, kdawg, but what does that mean? Are you claiming the entire charging efficiency from start (wiring in the wall) to finish (the battery cells actually being charged) is no more inefficient than a typical well-engineered EVSE?

I’m no electrical engineer by a long shot, but this seems unlikely to me. My understanding is that the loss from wireless charging (10% claimed by manufacturers; perhaps closer to 12-15% in typical real-world use) is in addition to the typical inefficiency of charging an EV.

If you’re claiming otherwise, kdawg, if you’re claiming that wireless charging is in actual real-world use no more inefficient than charging by plugging into a wall-mounted EVSE in your garage, then I’d like to see some results of third-party testing and/or reports from actual customers reporting actual kWh consumption, not just claims from the manufacturer.

Djoni

Well, might be “convenient efficiency”.
As for electrical or overall efficiency, It will never be.
Any conversion loss some energy and wireless add two, two times, rectifying and producing and high frequency supply (1) to produce a magnetic field(2), catch this magnetic field on the receiver pad (3) to rectify it again to the original voltage/frequency(4)that the onboard charger work with.
Just like throwing water on the floor and swamp it back in the bucket four times would recuperate as much water as it contain.
Just never as it’s impossible.
And that of course lead us to fuel cell as well.

Pushmi-Pullyu

That’s my understanding too, Djoni: That the multiple steps of converting power using wireless charging will result in multiple steps of efficiency loss. It’s pretty basic physics, and you don’t need to be an electrical engineer to understand that the more times you convert power from one form to another, the more energy you lose.

If kdawg is claiming otherwise, then I’d like to see some real-world testing data to support his claim.

jelloslug

Tesla is being very aggressive with putting their high power wall units in public places. I just wish they had J1772 plugs on them rather than the Tesla plug.

Anonymous

There needs to be a Tesla plug to J1772 adapter so Volt/Leaf etc owners can use Tesla wall chargers.

Roy_H

Not going to happen. Tesla Superchargers are fixed voltage for Tesla cars. Teslas can charge at other L2 stations because they are designed to query the car and set the desired voltage. This is what makes the Tesla Supercharger cheaper to build and non-compatible with other brands.

AlanSqB

While that’s true for the Superchargers, the HPWC are just normal EVSEs with Tesla handles instead of J1772 handles. They use the same protocol to negotiate the safety and level of the charge. There are many examples of people who have cut off the Tesla end of a Tesla EVSE and replaced it with a J1772.

The difficulty in a Tesla to J1772 adapter is that there is no source for the Tesla receptacle outside of salvage. Not many of those floating around yet.

jelloslug

These are not superchargers

Speculawyer

I don’t know. Where there is a will, there is a way. Someone could build some circuits to fool the Tesla charger into thinking it is charging a Tesla while it is actually charging another car.

Pushmi-Pullyu

Trying to charge a different plug-in EV’s battery pack at at Tesla Supercharger will likely fry the battery pack, the car’s power electronics, or both. Superchargers are designed to charge battery packs with a minimum of 60 kWh, and smaller packs simply can’t absorb that much power that quickly.

Now, that’s not to say it’s impossible; the Supercharger has to taper off charging as a Tesla battery pack approaches full charge, so there might be a window for a hacker to fool the Supercharger thinking it’s charging a Tesla pack that’s close to full charge, and perhaps that would get a hacker power at a level which wouldn’t fry anything in the car.

This is, of course, ignoring the ethical and legal problems with someone who’s not a Tesla customer stealing power from the Supercharger network.

Mike

Why should they put J1772 in? – that would just fill up the charging points with Leaf, Volt, i3 etc.
Nissan, GM & BMW have done nothing apart from stick a few L2 points in out of the way stealerships. Most get antsy when a “competitor” car pulls up.
Its not up to the smallest company to build an infrastructure for the benefit of the incumbents without some buy-in from GM etc.
All I see from them is open hostility to Tesla and certainly no cooperation.

vdiv

Tesla actually offers to install 40A J1772 Clipper Creek EVSEs alongside their HPWC, and not only pays for the equipment, but also money towards the installation. As a result many of the destination charging locations indeed have J1772.

No other automaker with the exception of Kia does that (Kia has their dealers install a CHAdeMO and a CCS dual-headed station even though their cars do not use CCS)

vdiv

well, the reason is not entirely benevolent, Tesla wants to support the Roadsters out there as well, which cannot use the HPWC TSL02 plug either.

EK

Unless this article is about Manhattan, Kansas, it’s not “the city of Manhattan”. Manhattan is a borough of the City of New York. So, you could instead say “the Borough of Manhattan”, or “the City of New York”, or “New York City”. Or, just keep it simple and say “Manhattan”.

Steven

Then why is it that when we say “We’re going into The City”, we end up in Manhattan?

sven

So you’re one of the bridge and tunnel crowd. 😉

Anonymous

So why doesn’t GM or Nissan bring up their own chargers to help other apartment dwellers?

I recall GM doing and spending money on this type of research but nothing came out of it for Apartment dwellers but small ol’ Tesla is doing something for their customers?

So I guess since GM and others don’t give a Rat’s A$$ about their customers, why the hell should Tesla care to even allow them to use Tesla chargers? Not that they can but I thought my idea was good above. After thinking about it, it sounds more like the other companies just don’t give a S _ _ T.

TomArt

All the other automakers are too far removed from their customers via dealerships. A project like this is something constructive that these dealerships can do with their profits instead of lobbying against EVs.

Speculawyer

GM doesn’t really have a full scale BEV yet. Just the Spark EV sold in 3 states.

The Volt is mainstream but it charges just fine on 120V overnight.

When the Chevy Bolt launches, they better take the charging infrastructure issue more seriously.

Pushmi-Pullyu

Anonymous said:

“So why doesn’t GM or Nissan bring up their own chargers to help other apartment dwellers?

“I recall GM doing and spending money on this type of research but nothing came out of it for Apartment dwellers but small ol’ Tesla is doing something for their customers?

“So I guess since GM and others don’t give a Rat’s A$$ about their customers…”

At the risk of bringing down the wrath of the EVangelist community on my head, I’d like to point out that 99% of GM’s customers are gasmobile owners, and 100% of Tesla’s customers are BEV owners*.

Tesla has an economic incentive to support its customers by installing EV charge points. GM does not. At present, that’s the reality.

*Well, I guess now there are a small number of Tesla Powerwall customers who don’t own Tesla cars. So not quite 100%.

TomArt

Well, there’s a way to reduce supercharger congestion caused by local drivers.

It will be interesting to see what the business model will be for these. Will Tesla install them and then have them be free to use (since you would already be paying to use the garage in the first place)?

Well, I guess it would be the same arrangement that they have with the other proprietors that have HPWCs. Although I have no idea what those arrangements are.

Anyone?

sven

Free in NYC? Fuhgeddaboudit!

The NY Times article says the following:
“But unlike Tesla’s highway superchargers, the electricity will not be free for Tesla owners. Each garage will determine how much, if any, cost will be added to their existing parking fees, Ms. Georgeson said.”

I don’t know what the commercial/business electric rates are (they are kind of complicated to figure out), but I can tell you that the residential electric rates in NYC are a whopping $0.31 per kWh on a regular plan, and as high as an astronomical $1.20 per kWh on a time-of-use plan.

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/08/13/business/tesla-drivers-will-soon-find-more-charging-stations-in-manhattan.html?_r=2

http://www.coned.com/customercentral/calculators/voluntary_time_of_use.html

…yet still cheaper than hydrogen. You know, hydrogen, which won’t be allowed in enclosed garages, let alone dozens from Wall Street to 94th?

sven

Why are you so obsessed with me and hate hydrogen so much? Did your blow-up doll get punctured and deflate? Did she then fly away after you patched her up and filled her with hydrogen instead of air? 😉

sven

“In a story in the New York Times, one of the owners is charging his brand new P85D in a garage 15 blocks away from his apartment from an ordinary wall socket, because he hasn’t found a better solution yet.”

From the NYT article: “A full charge can take two to three days, as the socket adds barely four miles of range each hour.”

This guy is one really hard-core dedicated EV advocate!!!

Djoni

This is a great news.
Because it’s much needed in already built premise.
Every new building, condo, appartment should have include some kind of powering the individual parking to provide the owner with decent charging access.

Anon

So, in preparation of GM’s new longer range BOLT and VOLT, exactly how many CCS or L2 chargers they THEY installing, throughout the US?

Huh? HUh? HUH???

Pushmi-Pullyu

Everybody here* wants the EV revolution to advance as fast as possible, so of course we want to see a public EV charger network built out as soon as possible.

But look at it from the gasmobile manufacturers’ viewpoint: The Ford Motor Company did not have to build out a nationwide network of gas stations to support sales of its Model T, so why should EV makers have to do that?

The time will come when there are enough people driving plug-in EVs to support for-profit charging stations. Until then, gasmobile makers have a strong disincentive to not help make their core product — gasmobiles — obsolete by installing public EV chargers to make using PEVs more convenient, or more competitive with gasmobiles.

*Well, except “See Through” 😉

James

Knowing NYC garages, they will price gouge, dent your Tesla doors, scratch the bumpers to no end and expect a Xmas tip.

There may be Tesla charger at Manhattan KS there is one in Hays KS and other cities where I70 is. I think Tesla should have level 2 chargers at their stations and charge for electricity. Sounds strange but Tesla could sell electricity with chargers every 80 miles and Leafs and electric Focus could travel long distance like some are doing out west on some highways.

hey James don’t take Christ out of Christmas.

Pushmi-Pullyu

Here’s your opportunity to learn something today, instead of using the Internet to spread bad memes:

“A Christogram is a monogram or combination of letters that forms an abbreviation for the name of Jesus Christ, traditionally used as a Christian symbol…

“The most commonly encountered Christogram in English-speaking countries in modern times is the X (or more accurately, Greek letter chi) in the abbreviation Xmas (for “Christmas”), which represents the first letter of the word Christ.”

More info here:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christogram