Tesla Adds Supercharger Payment Section By kWh For Model 3 On Website

Tesla Supercharger

AUG 30 2016 BY JAY COLE 112

It Appears Tesla Will Sell Supercharging Session By The kWh To Model 3 Owners

It Appears Tesla Will Sell Supercharging Sessions By The kWh To Model 3 Owners

We knew that the upcoming Model 3 would have access to the Tesla Supercharging network, it has been a staple of the talking points from the company since the car was introduced.

But we also heard that it won’t be “free” at the same time, as it is for the Model S and X (and by free we really mean “included in the MSRP”).

How future Model 3 users would gain access, and at what cost has been a topic of discussion ever since.  Will it be pay as you go?  Standard with more premium trim levels?  How would the Supercharging sessions be charged?  By visit?  By month?  By kWh?

Today, the website EV.network may have figured it out, as they uncovered some new bits of added code on the company’s MyTesla page.

One of the new sections has a spot ready for Supercharging payments to be made via credit card:

New Section Of Code Reveals Tesla's Plan For Model 3 Supercharging Access

New Section Of Code Reveals Tesla’s Plan For Model 3 Supercharging Access

And another where it lists the accumulation of “Supercharging Credits”, and it appears to suggest that Supercharging stops for the Model 3 will be billed by kWhs!

Time to stock up on Supercharging Credits?

Time to stock up on Supercharging Credits? (via EV.network)

EV.network

 

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112 Comments on "Tesla Adds Supercharger Payment Section By kWh For Model 3 On Website"

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Cool stuff. If it’s just a matter of plugging in and all authentication and billing is automatically done via a data connection with the car, billing by the kWh to a credit card on file, then it’s a seamless, easy, no hassle process.

Excellent. They really should add ala carte Supercharger access. They can go ahead and charge pretty high rates too but it will still be worth it for people that rarely need it but occasionally want to charge up during a rare long trip.

Hmmm I better hurry up and get my CPO Model S. Right now they have free super charger access included “even for the 2nd owner” Probably won’t be long before Supercharging access is only free to the original purchaser for as long as he / she has the car. Subsequent owners will likely need to pay for access.

I’m going to assume if you get a Model 3 or Model S above $50,000 you’ll have supercharging for life rolled into the price.

It’ll be the $30,000 to $45,000 crowd that will be paying on the new scheme.

I think that your assertion is probably spot on. We will see if there is a price threshold or if it is a “grand touring” package which if added gains you unlimited SC usage.

Right idea, wrong implementation. I believe they will have a $2000 option for unlimited Supercharging. Otherwise it will be pay-as-you-go.

Probably true. There will be those that have the money to drop the $2000 just so they won’t have to hassle with going online and setting up their credit card with the Supercharger network.

I can’t imagine personally ever using over that much Supercharger. Even if you do pay as you go $2000 would give you a $16.66 a month or $200 a year budget for 10 years before you would start to pay more than that initial all access fee.

Even with the approximately two 900 mile round-trip vacations we take every year, which is much more than the average American, Tesla would have to charge more than around $0.35-$0.40 kWh for it to cost more than $2000 over 10 years.

My thoughts exactly.
Base model pays per Kwh, top of the line included for first owner.

Daniel is totally right.

Under the new Tesla CFO, the new scheme is to keep the base prices low to tamper criticism and encourage sales but then jack up prices for everything else to make up for additional profits.

Notice how all sorts of options have gone up. Heck, even FW flip aka autopilot went up. Don’t forget the crazy pricing for the Model X windshield (PR for that claimed a computer mistake). If Elon didn’t promise “free for life” (for Model S/X), I am sure that will go up too.

Allies of Pushme-Pullyu

Elon did say free forever at the Supercharger unveiling for model S owners.

Elon also said “as much as you want,” but that quickly changed. In any case, Tesla can fulfill its promise to Model S owners exactly the same way that AT&T fulfilled its “unlimited data” promise to first-gen iPhone owners after they ended their unlimited data plan:

“When we promised you unlimited [resource], we DIDN’T promise you a rate of delivery.”

So Tesla can give unlimited charging at 120kW for the first 200kWh, and then 60kW, and then 20kW, and then 4kW. The problem will resolve itself.

My nearest Supercharger is 725km away so, for a while, I won’t be using one :/

And you live in… ?

I’d guess Lisbon, since he used km.

In the Continental US El Paso is 400+ km from the nearest Supercharger. Big Bend National Park is 500 km from one.

Going west on IH-10 from my house (near San Antonio) the first Supercharger is about 1500 km away…..

“Going west on IH-10 from my house (near San Antonio) the first Supercharger is about 1500 km away…”

Well, I guess Tesla had better put their plans for a “Model D” (duckmobile) on hold… 😛

[Warning: utterly off-topic website:] http://duckmobile.com/

Those are death mobiles.

I live near Philadelphia and the Delaware river, tell me about it. It was all the news here.

Although DUKW’s were never intended for civilian use, and they outlived their intended need.

Somewhere that uses the metric system.

You mean everywhere in the whole freakin’ world EXCEPT for the US, Myanmar, and Liberia.

Hey Reexsee the name Crannaford , google shows South Australia, Australia Crannaford

This is good. It may deter people from abusing the system. I ran into one guy at a supercharger in Vacaville, Ca where I was charging my S. It was rush hour and all the chargers were in use. This guy was using the supercharger and he lived in Vacaville-where the charger was located. Clearly abuse of the system IMO.

I’m very concerned what is going to happen to wait times once we get a significant amount of Model 3’s out here.

Local or not, any Model S or X can use a Supercharger. It is paid with the original purchase price. Many owners care not to buy a home charger if they do not have not. There is the social factor as well. Go charge and meet/ talk with other owners. Even with a fee for Model 3 owners the high rate of charging is a nice feature of the brand. The best suggestion is not to charge during the popular times if possible and, of course, Tesla needs to partner with other locations and install more chargers. As more Teslas roam the Earth more feeding grounds must be allocated. By the way, no doubt a lawsuit may arise due to Model 3s being charged. I agree. One for all and all for one. But who knows what may happen in the future. Cheers.

@Rhaman
“Local or not, any Model S or X can use a Supercharger. It is paid with the original purchase price.”

Dah

Elon has said it’s a no-no. Not quite sure what your point is. Tesla has enough data from the cars to know when someone is mis-using the system.

Explain if you can? At a charger 30 miles from here, someone who lives in the town and owns an S was scolded and warned for using it every day. Why would that be? I never read a purchase ag%eement.agreement

Part of the problem is that Tesla has never (so I understand) written any Terms of Service for use of Superchargers. Now that the Model ≡ is coming out, it seems they’ll have to, and I think it’s good that they’ll be clarifying the matter. Tesla’s official position on Supercharger use is that it’s only to support long-distance travel. Therefore, according to what Tesla now says, Superchargers should not be used for everyday charging; they were never meant to replace charging at home or at work. The problem with this is that originally, Tesla’s advertising said “unlimited use, free, forever” after paying the access fee (originally $2000, but now “included in the price” of a Model S on every trim level higher than S60). So, Tesla appears to have walked back its original promise a bit. Now, my guess is that if you asked Elon, he would point out that the original ad did say the purpose of the Supercharger network was to support long-distance travel. But later on in the ad, it did say “unlimited” use. No “only for long-distance travel” in that original promise. Anyway, the point here is that Elon claims the intent all along, including when… Read more »

Rhaman said:

“Many owners care not to buy a home charger if they do not have not.”

Well, I suppose there are “many” in the sense of counting “One, two, many.” But it must be an extremely small percentage of Model S/X owners foolish enough to pay for a “premium” car when they have no place to plug it in on a regular basis without having to waste time waiting for it to charge. Remember, the problem with PEVs isn’t the charging time… it’s only the waiting on a charge time. If you’re charging at home or at work, then you’re not waiting.

“There is the social factor as well. Go charge and meet/ talk with other owners.”

Um, right. People will hog a Supercharger stall and hang out for half an hour or so just for the opportunity of talking with other Model S/X owners. /snark

* * * * *

Not every case of local use of a Supercharger is freeloading. For example, if you’re returning home from a long trip, but plan on going out again later that day/night, then you may indeed need to use a Supercharger in your own area.

You have to cut him some karma slack for living in Vacaville.

hey Kosh,
Pretty funny….a little local humour!!

-I lived in Davis in high school 🙂

Ironically…. I confused that with Victorville when typing it (never actually been to vacaville!)

I wonder what they will charge per kWh. If they make it high enough (without gouging) people will just charge at home if they are local.

Yeah pricing will be tricky. $.20 would be enough in NC to prevent locals charging but may not work in CA.

$.30 would probably work in CA. A typical $15 charge for 50 kwh. More expensive than gas in a Prius but I’m not driving a Prius. It beats a rental ICE for sure and any larger car.

$.30 is my prediction. I really don’t know what all the stress is. I’m at 25k miles in 16 months. I’ve supercharged 8 times or so. Some were 15 mins. So all told, I’d be under $100 if I was paying. I don’t know why anyone would be bothered by $100 for 8 roadtrips in a fantastic large car. And another $100 for home charging in the same time period (I pay $.05 and get a lot of free work charging).

I’ll bet it will tie in directly to the electricity COST for the Supercharger.

Since Tesla will know who you are and where you are from as soon as you connect to the SC, you would think that if you are on a road trip…far from home, that Tesla would charge you accordingly. So the closer the SC is to your home, the more or higher rate you would charge. The farther from home you are (on a road trip) the less you would be charged. Hmmm

There might be several good reasons to use a Supercharger even if you live nearby. Example:

1. You do not have access to home charging. Ie. living in a flat where the building owner are unwilling to put up a charge point.

2. You have beebn travelling far an need to charge a lot before going on your next trip. Salespeople, managing several sites etc.

Birger said:

“You do not have access to home charging. Ie. living in a flat where the building owner are unwilling to put up a charge point.”

No, that’s not a “good” reason to freeload off the Supercharger system for daily charging. It’s a good reason to either move, or arrange to charge your car at work, or trade your Tesla car in for something that actually fits your lifestyle.

If you don’t understand why this behavior is unacceptable, then read up on the problem of the “Tragedy of the Commons”:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tragedy_of_the_commons

This was inevitable. I really hope they move to a pay-to-use model for all of their new vehicles while honoring the existing owners that were promised free for life.

Free, unlimited access only fosters abuse. The sooner they abandon that the better. As more and more Teslas hit the road they need to make sure the people using Superchargers really need to, and they aren’t just doing so because it’s free.

Exactly!! Right on Tom.

Agreed, and Tesla would seem to be setting it up the same as Apple does for its app store. Enter your credit card once and approve purchases thereafter.
I see pulling into a supercharger, plugging in the cord (or later pulling over the induction plate) getting an alert on your screen and approving the purchase.
This may also enable Tesla to charge differently at each station dependant on location and time of day. Hard to provide a fair charge when utilities have different costs particularly for high demand applications such as this.

I also agee, bu I think Tesla should keep charging when the battery is full so that the charging station is not used as a parking lot.

I’m happy with pay as you go for supercharger access for my model 3. It will discourage abuse. This is what I was expecting from Tesla.

This is exactly what I was hoping would happen. With free-for-life, I would be concerned that the supercharger would not be available when I need it.

Plus, it opens the possibility of Model III drivers supporting other DC networks. For example, driving a Model S from Syracuse to NYC today down the thruway. There are a few superchargers, but they all require exiting the toll road. On the other hand, there are a few CHAdeMO which a Tesla could use with adaptor. If both are paid access, I can see a lot of people choosing the more convenient option.

This in turn helps the non-Tesla EV drivers. It supports 3rd party networks which will support all other makes of EV as well.

That’s true, but those locations such as on the NY Thruway Service Plazas will absolutely need two fast chargers and one being 100 kW+ when those begin to be on the market in the next year to two years is preferable as well. Reasons are obvious.

Brian, I bet the SC cost less that that darn Thuway in Syracuse. I used to live there and it has been paid for years ago but they still have tolls.

QUOTE=driving a Model S from Syracuse to NYC today down the thruway.

No road is ever “paid for” and done. All roads require maintenance, especially in 4-season states.

That said, Albany was just caught inappropriately using thruway tolls to pay for the canal system. So the tolls clearly don’t all go to maintaining the thruway system.

Brian, RT 81 North South in NYS is paid for and normal taxes pay for up keep. It’s in better shape than the thruway.

Meh. Skip the Thruway altogether. Interstate 80 to Interstate 81 is a much shorter and quicker route (and less tolls) Syracuse to NYC with Superchargers in Binghamtion, NY and Tannersville, PA.

I think you are missing my point. It was simply an example where the CHAdeMO charger was more convenient than the Supercharger. I’m sure that by the time the Model III hits the streets, there will be other examples.

Opps. My bad. I meant to reply to Jim’s post regarding regarding the tolls and the Thruway.

Earlier in the evening, I was going over my monthly E-ZPass statement and it was quite eye-popping being summer driving season! With lower Hudson River crossings into NY being $12.50, all the MTA East River crossings being $11 roundvtrip, add in some NY Thruway and NJ Turnpike tolls, and for good measure some parking fees from a couple of trips to JFK and LaGuardia Airports, I sometimes get sticker shock when I open up my EZ-Pass statement. It adds up quickly! The only consolation I get is the a very small green car discount, and when possible a big car-pool discount. Sorry for ranting.

So if Supercharger access will cost less than gas as Elon Musk has said…

According to Bloomberg, paying for Superchargers is “obvious.” The quote below comes directly from Tesla CEO Elon Musk:
“Free Supercharging fundamentally has a cost. The obvious thing to do is decouple that from the cost of the Model 3. So it will still be very cheap, and far cheaper than gasoline, to drive long-distance with the Model 3, but it will not be free long distance for life unless you purchase that package.”

http://insideevs.com/tesla-model-3-free-supercharging-musk-its-obvious-owners-need-to-pay/

then my figuring is that the cost per kWh will need to be somewhere below $0.30 per kWh if $2.20 a gallon gas is used to compare.

Hopefully they charge commercial rates and not profit from this. My work pays $.15/kWh and I pay $.11/kWh at home for off peak rates in California, so if they charge something around these prices that would be good.

Heh.. That would be good if they charged something around those prices… I mean, that’s quite low and even at 30 cents a kWh that’s good.

You know a few weeks ago I did some looking into what the average rates for fast charging are by looking at the rates of various fast charge providers around the world. I figured what the average price is for a 20 and 30 minute session and also what the average price per kWh is.

The average price per kWh comes to $0.65.

Some states/localities it is illegal to resell electricity by the kWh. I wonder how they will get around this? Possibly by time?

This may be where SolarCity comes in, as they (I believe) are a power generator and may be able to sell.

Illegal to resell ectricity by the kWh’s is exactly the situation we have.

Any way, a minute-based pricing model is a better solution, since it would not encourage customers to (slowly) fill all the way up to 100% if they really doesn’t need to. This would free up supercharger stalls quicker than if you charge per kWh.

A single Supercharger can charge one or two Tesla cars, but if it’s charging two, then the current is lower. That means if you’re charging by the minute, some customers are getting less than others for the same fee.

That would be perceived as unfair, and customers perceiving unfair billing leads to unhappy customers.

I hope Tesla will find some way around this absurd regulation.

In Norway we have extensive experience from crowded fast chargers. Billing by the minute is the preferred method to avoid queues. To handle different charging power available depending on multiple users they could dynamically adjust the minute rate (1x,2x etc).
I also hope that Supercharger use will be more expensive than normal fast chargers so that Superchargers are used only when necessary.

Oh, I absolutely agree that by-the-minute billing would be the best way to avoid clogging the system. That would, for example, discourage drivers from charging that last few percent as the battery pack nears full capacity and the charging rate tapers off.

But from a business standpoint, I think Tesla will have happier customers if it charges by the kWh, rather than by the minute.

One could, of course, suggest a more complex charging algorithm which would take both kWh and minutes of use into account. But that would lead to confusion and, again, unhappy customers. Tesla has an exemplary customer service reputation, and hopefully they are going to preserve that as much as possible as the company grows. Arguably, at least from the viewpoint of Tesla’s reputation, that’s more important than slightly less clogging of the Supercharger system.

Being that Tesla seems to prefer selling “larger” batteries (i.e. you might have a 75 that is firmware locked to 60) it seems that their best strategy might be as follows….

Charge “X” amount for 1% of battery capacity.

“upgrade” to a larger battery, get a better deal while supercharging.

Charging per percentage skirts the kW illegal nonsense and doesn’t penalize someone for a slower charger when someone is sharing – – or when the charger is having a bad day.
Seems to me that this would virtually eliminate all the calls to Tesla…”I want a refund, the charger was too slow and I should get 10 minutes free.”

So here is a thought… And you heard it here first.

Tesla is about to make electricity portable, all with the help of Tesla Energy (a.k.a. SolarCity)

1) Put in a solar roof

2) Generate what you need for your house/car

3)Sell the rest back to Tesla Energy for a Kwh Credit for supercharging

4)Now it doesn’t matter if you charge at home or at a supercharger station.

Thoughts???

Not sure about the details, but I wouldn’t be entirely surprised, now that you mention it.

Agreed. A deferred kWh plan of sorts.

Yes, I like that a kwh credit market that you can sell, buy, trade. Can’t wait lol

The primary reason Tesla needs to “charge for a charge”, or bill for Supercharger use, isn’t because it costs Tesla money to run the Supercharger system. The primary purpose is to discourage, as much as possible, casual use of the Supercharger system; abuse and freeloading by those who don’t really need to use it.

Supercharger freeloading (that is, local use of a Supercharger to avoid paying for charging at home or work), or casual use by drivers who don’t really need a charge, is a “Tragedy of the Commons” problem. That is, it becomes a problem when too many people try to use a finite common resource. If you’re not familiar with the concept, read here:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tragedy_of_the_commons

Oops, hit “post” too soon.

So while using your leased rooftop SolarCity / Tesla Energy system to generate “credits” for Supercharger use is an interesting idea, it would be contrary to the primary purpose of Tesla charging for Supercharger use.

I don’t think the credit system will work since the credit for the commercial electricity rate at Supercharger is often much higher than the residential rate.

Maybe if SCTY can offset kWh for kWh and then offer you discount on bulk credits, then it would work.

But either way, SCTY has problems with cash flow right now so we will see how that turns out.

This is exactly how I was hoping Tesla would handle Supercharger access; nothing is worse than adding another access card to my keychain full of charging networks.

Furthermore, I hope they launch this on the S/X with a corresponding drop in base MSRP to discourage abuse of the network (for new customers only).

I’m happy to pay up to 200% of retail $/kWh for access to the network. Right now I’m paying about 350% of retail for quick charging on NRG’s network.

I don’t think the SC’s will get as congested as many think.
Tesla has the adapters and they can use other charge stations.

Tesla plans to sell about ten times as many Model ≡’s as it sells Model S’s. It’s not logical or reasonable to suggest this won’t lead to a problem with clogging of the Supercharger network.

Even if Tesla were to build out 10x as many Supercharger stalls, that still won’t solve the problem of clogging and waiting in line at some of the more popular Supercharger locations on certain hours of the weekend and holidays.

It’s inevitable that casual use and freeloading of the Supercharger network will lead to clogging. It’s a very basic “Tragedy of the Commons” situation, and obviously unavoidable as the number of Tesla cars continues to rise. The only practical way to reduce the clogging is to “charge for a charge”, which will reduce freeloading and casual use by those who don’t really need to use a Supercharger.

At peak hours, Tesla could instruct their chargers to stop charging at 90% combines with audible and visible ‘available’ signal from the Charger. While charging, you pay for the KWh, but when finished charging, you start to pay per second after a small treshold. The price per seconde doubles every new minute.

Besides, the price per KWh could drop per charged KWh, making it unatractive to charge small amounts. The First ten KWh should be far more expensive than home charging

Glad to see this. Unlimited access, as Model S’s have, would have resulted in far too much clogging of the Supercharger network by drivers who didn’t really need to use a Supercharger. Billing by the kWh means only those drivers who really need to use a Supercharger will be using them. I suppose billing by the kWh, rather than by the minute, makes sense from a marketing standpoint. Billing by the minute would have made for angry customers, when the current was lower (because it was being shared by two EVs charging off the same Supercharger) or when it tapered off: “You’re billing me MORE when I have to wait LONGER to get a charge?!?!” And billing by the stop never made any sense. Why should the guy who stops for a 5 or 10 minute charge be billed as much as the guy who stops for a 45 minute charge? And that would also encourage people to charge as much as possible on each stop, which would be contrary to the purpose of reducing clogging of the system. * * * * * On the other hand, there may be more than one level of Supercharger access for Model… Read more »
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Prior – Prepaid costs of supercharger rolled into price — say what you will, the cost is baked into the S and X.

Model 3 – not so much; and I’m surprised actually how many folk willing to prepaid supercharger options on the other forum sites ($2000 and 70% optioned it). That’s a lot of long distance drivers using their EV for this.

My bet would be better use of $2000 over lifetime of car to rent and travel long distance.

ANyways; Pay to charge: $.49/kwh is pretty standard

It doesn’t surprise me that most of those who could afford to pay an average of $95k-100k for a car would be willing to pay an additional $2000 upfront for the privilege of being able to use a Supercharger whenever they wanted to, for the lifetime of the car. Convenience is worth paying for, and for a Model S/X owner, that’s certainly an attractive convenience, even for those who only take perhaps 3 or 4 out of town trips a year.

He is talking about the Model 3 reservation tracker website, where prospective Model 3 owners listed what sorts of upgrades they would buy (using existing statements and Model S options as a template).

“ANyways; Pay to charge: $.49/kwh is pretty standard”

That is far more than gasoline cost. Elon already said it is cheaper than gasoline, so he can’t back off now with that expensive rate.

Maybe $0.29/kWh, that is my guess.

$.49 per KWh is an absurd ripoff, and enough reason for people to resort to taking a gas car instead of an EV. I’ve looked through some documents from my utility company, and it seems to me that as you become a larger bulk purchaser, you pay less per KWh. However, you incur demand charges as well, which makes the equation a bit tougher. Given how many current EV owners transitioned from a Prius or other hybrid vehicle, the MPG comparison should be done using about 40 MPG. At $2.10 a gallon for a lot of the country presently that is $.0525 per mile, X 3.5 miles per KWh would be $.18375 per KWh – so they shouldn’t exceed $.19 per KWh in my opinion. I look at EVGo’s plan, a subscriber pays $1 per hour for L2 which gets a reasonable EV 6 KW charge rate – that is $.167 per KWh. Their DCFC costs $.10 per minute, which at a 40 KWh charge rate is about $.15 per KWh. These rates are both completely reasonable, however their subscription fee is what makes them expensive ($15 per month subscription). A small premium over local residential rates sounds good to… Read more »

$0.49 per kWh is in actual fact in the reasonable range of rates for DCFC.

It’s not just the electricity that’s being payed for, it’s a lot more than that…

I and many others view DCFCing as a service. It’s a convenience service that’s available when needed.
And, as mentioned earlier above, the average cost per kWh for fast charging is $0.65.

So, I’m planning a 1000 mile road trip – happens to correspond to a Tesla SuperCharger route perfectly. My options – take a minivan that averages 25 MPG, or take a Tesla Model 3. Minivan – assuming roughly current fuel prices at $2.20 for most of the country – will consume 40 gallons of gas – that’s $88 for fuel during the trip. Take the Tesla Model 3 – assume 3.5 Miles per KWh, and assume that I leave with a full charge and return home with 20% charge remaining – that’s 840 miles driven using power from DCFC. 840 / 3.5 Miles per KWh = 240 KWh. 240 KWh x $.49 per KWh = $117.60. So – based on this math, I should take the minivan for the long trip every time because it will cost less, and 5 minute fill-ups are quicker and more convenient than 30 minute charging. Do you see the problem now? Oh, it takes 4.5 KWh of electricity to refine 1 gallon of fuel – given that 5 minutes pumps 17 gallons of gas into my minivan – that’s technically 76.5 KWh of electricity for the refining that I just pumped into the tank.… Read more »
A scenario like that is possible, but I think most of us realize that traveling long distance in an EV will take longer, even tho a good part of the time (maybe half) spent fast charging is likely to be used eating a meal or taking a quick bathroom break stop or such. The convenience is not comparable to a gas car, obviously, but the cost as you detailed at $88 for the EV and $117 for the ICE is not too vastly different. Another interesting but of info is this: From my researching the extra cost of fast charging per year using the average amount of miles per year traveled from fast charging (which is 5%) the cost increase is right around 30%. In other words it will cost typically around $400-$450 a year in electric at home (figuring 13k miles a year), and it’s around $150 a year that it may cost to do that 5% of fast charging. So over the whole year, figuring if one only had one vehicle (and not two to choose from) it would be still be more economical to have an EV than an ICE vehicle. Btw, I don’t believe the majority… Read more »

That was before this announcement. I, for one, am going back to the tracker website and uncheck that box in my profile.

They would charge more than the cost of electricity since they have to maintain the supercharger as well as a profit to keep expanding.

Sure. And Tesla would want to charge more than the local rate for electricity, to discourage local use of the Supercharger by people who should be charging at home. Let’s see, if the Model ≡ has an (estimated) 55 kWh battery pack, and if it matches what GM has announced for the EPA rated range: 209 miles, then that comes to (estimated) 3.8 miles per kWh. Compare that to the “average” gasmobile’s 25 MPG. Current national average price for regular gasoline: $2.223. That comes to 8.892¢ per mile. If we take Elon’s “far less” comment as indicating, say, 50% of the price, then that would be 4.446¢ per mile. At 3.8 miles per kWh, that comes to ~17¢ per kWh. National average price for electricity was 12.73¢ per kWh in June 2016 (source below), and a fair price from Tesla would include the cost of installing and maintaining the Supercharger system. I’m guessing that the actual (average) price Tesla will charge will be a bit more than 17¢, perhaps somewhere around 20-25¢ per kWh. I’m also guessing that will be adjusted for local cost of electricity. In Hawaii it’s 27.5¢, and I think it’s been reported in InsideEVs comments that… Read more »

I think it is a good thing they charge for it.

It will at least eliminate some of the abuses from people using Tesla as “taxi services” because of the free charging.

This also allows those people who want to drive Tesla but have no access to home charging a chance to own Tesla if he/she lives close to a Supercharger. Some Model3 reservation holders have that exact concern.

But now they can still do it with pay for use system at their local SC.

Now, I believe the cost should be high enough to discourage abuse so it is still cheaper to charge at home.

Also, the cheaper than gasoline comparison is probably based on the cost of a 25mpg Audi A4.
At today’s $2.20/gallon, that is $0.088/mile.
With 3.5 miles/kWh, it would cost $0.31 per kWh before it is more expensive than gasoline car. I would think Tesla would charge maybe $0.25 to $0.29/kWh which is about what peak commercial rate cost.

Also, the cost should be variable based on demand so those people don’t need it won’t be paying for the higher rate. And those who does need it won’t mind paying for it.

premium car will be compared to the cost of premium fuel

SparkEV-Fiat500-Leased - M3 Reserved - Bolt- TBD

Chargepoint and Blink are routinely .49-.59 /kwh, so that’s not an outrageous price. Charging at home is key and anyone doing it elsewhere is wasting both time and money.

That’s why superchargers along the freeway makes no sense to me — anything more than a 15minute dwell/refuel snack/potty break is too long for non-destination stops–hence the limits of any EV.

The key to success for this generation is largely range anxiety free mobility in an urban area.

At contrary superchargers along the freeway makes perfect sense but as you said charge time must decrease further so charge power must continue to increase.

Model S and X owners pay for Supercharger access up front, while Model 3 owners would pay per charge.

With Tesla already reporting that over 90% of Model S and X charging happens at home, it’s expected that the 200+ mile Model 3 pay per charge will increase home charging even more.

This way the Superchargers can be more available for the interstate travelers as intended.

Doesn’t mean there wont be another free for all option however. Either unlimited for the life of the car, or the Tesla account holder. Or perhaps a $50 a month unlimited fee etc etc.

Yup. The average percent of charging away from home is 4-5%, with the expectation that it will reach around 2% in the future with 200-300 mile range cars.

This is the perfect solution for the people that want to keep the cost of the car down and/or would not use the Supercharger network enough to warrant the “lifetime” subscription.

I’ll be happy to pay for SC access, the few times I expect to need it each year.

For me, I’d rather keep the price of my Model 3 lower by paying for SC access, than have the price be artificially high and use it rarely.

A+

They could also let other EVs charge at SC stations using adapter. This far they have asked for other manufacturers to share the cost to participate, but if drivers can pay by charge that should be enough. Maybe some license fee could be included in adapter price.

Well, the Amish are allowed to drive their horses and buggies on public roads. That doesn’t mean the people in the cars piling up behind them are happy about it.

There are plenty of DCFC charging stations for PEVs that can’t charge nearly as fast as a Tesla car, altho of course they’re not well placed for intercity travel the way the Supercharger network is. Supercharger use by slower-charging PEVs should only be allowed at Supercharger stations that are not busy.

Yes, I know that many Tesla owners would rather keep it walled garden for this reason.

However, pricing it correctly for non-Tesla customers would greatly reduce the risk of stations getting blocked. Pay per minute model would make the charging rate differences less relevant. Everyone would pay equally for their time at charger no matter how efficiently they use that time. Just make the cost high enough so that it isn’t lucrative for non-Tesla drivers to use SC unless they really need it.

Moreover, non-Tesla customers would provide income to finance more chargers. Do it right and everyone wins.

BTW, old S60 doesn’t charge much faster than Leaf or i3, but people don’t complain about S60 drivers blocking SC stations.

So far the other than Tesla EV that can go 120 miles between SC and can accept 120 kW has still to be born. Even the Bolt will have issues to go 120 miles at highway speed and can the Bolt be charged at 120 kW? Nobody wants a slot paid by the Tesla owners to be blocked by a slow charging vehicle.

In general I agree… but not via adapters but include in new SC construction separate for pay stalls for non Tesla standards – and that money should come from the other car companies (VW comes to mind).

The Bolt will have issues going 120 miles at highway speed? Yeah right!

It does have bad aero, but not THAT bad.

SparkEV-Fiat500-Leased - M3 Reserved - Bolt- TBD

Nobody knows if either Bolt or Model 3 can do what you’re pulling out of thin air.

Bolt is in production and KNOWN fast charge 50+ capable already as stated and 200+ miles. Model 3 has yet to make ANY preproduction models to even test.

This is yet another reason why Tesla should charge by the minute rather than by the kWh. Even if only Teslas cars can use the stations, charging rates will become very different over the years. Model 3 won’t be able to take 300 kW or more – and stations, along with future Teslas, will go there.

It’ll be absurd if a Model 3 dude is trickling at 10 kW with 95% SoC, paying 2 cents per minute, while blocking the 2025 Model X from charging at 300 kW, for which he would have paid 60 cents per minute…

I really hope Tesla gets it and forgets about per-kWh pricing. It’s the wrong model.

Of course this article opens the floor to many permutations…
1). Is the rate charged going to be fixed from one supercharger location to the next, or is it going to be a % of the electricity cost at the particular location?

2). When the “S” came out, the car was advertised as having free for life electricity if the sc hardware ($2000) was purchased.

So the question is: IS EVERY S AND X owner who had the SC enabled (either by purchasing a big battery, or buying a late model, or spending $2000) going to be guaranteed free electricity for life even though probably they’ll try to be shamed off of it.

Since Musk’s statement at the time DID NOT preclude commercial use, are all the model S taxis going to hog all the stations with impunity?

I’ve mentioned before the only legal way for Tesla to satisfy all these claims is to throttle usage for a heavy user not on vacation, similar to several cell phone data plans, in that you can download an infinite amount of data, but you may be doing it at dial-up rates.

I think they have to honor their commitment. But they can of course change the charging model for future purchasers of Model S/X.

It’s not clear to me if that will be necessary. If 90% of their sales are other cars they’ll need plenty more charging points in any case, so the network should continue to grow for a long time still. And then perhaps selling the S/X with charging for life baked into the price may be a useful model – I’m sure buyers LOVE the feeling that they charge for free, even though they realize it’s not really free. Maybe excluding commercial use is all they should do with the terms for the luxury models.

Agreed, they have to honor their committment, and the only way I see to do that is with throttling as I’ve mentioned several times before.

If supposedly, they DID do that, then they could also very cheaply double the number of stalls hooked to each supercharger in a multi-supercharger corral,(without actually expanding the complex) and simply taper the heavy users so that their cars would allow the other people on vacation to get the maximum charge rate.

This might be problematic in sweden, they cant charge you for electrisity if they are not a power company, and then they will be hitt with hefty taxes.
Thats why all chargers in swedencharge by minute.

Call me cynical but with BMW announcing, leaking or what ever about doubling batter capacity and now this I am expecting some seriously bad news in terms of sales tomorrow.

I’ll call you “unrealistic” instead.

The knowledge of the upcoming Bolt, new Leaf and Zoe, and in the longer term Model 3 are all much nearer in time than BMWs double-in-five-years talk – and seem to have a pretty limited effect on sales. This ought to be of much less import.

That’s not really what I meant, I mean these 2 stories look planted, I geuss they are testing the water or creating I distraction.

The code shown represents *minutes* of development work. I wouldn’t place too much emphasis on it. Tesla can still change its mind. I for one hope it does. Charging by the minute is the intelligent way to go. When you pay by the kWh, you will far more often be willing to stay for a tiramisu and an espresso while the car slowly trickles at over 90% SoC – preventing the next customer from charging at ten times the rate. The less of the station’s power you are utilizing, the less reason you have to get going again as soon as possible. With per minute pricing the incentives create less conflict. If you stay connected any longer than needed you get less and less energy for each unit of cost. Granted, it isn’t going to be a lot of money either way, but people are funny that way. We don’t like to get a bad deal. So when the effective kWh price becomes much higher at the end, we will want to disconnect. When instead it stays the same, we will disconnect only if we are in a hurry… This isn’t just guessing. This is the experience of three different… Read more »

I rather pay for it when I use it then have a big chunk of money added to the sales price. I think the accessibility to the sc would got alot better when you do need it. The majority of my charging will be done at home or at work.

Very logical to charge per kWh.

This was a no brainer. Even doubling the current amount of SCs would not alleviate congestion once tens of thousands of Model 3s started hitting the road.

The question is: how many Model 3 reservation holders thought Supercharging would be free? Us people who read the EV news sites probably knew it wouldn’t be free, but 90% of Model 3 reservation holders were brand new to Tesla. Quite a few people may be disappointed soon.

This will not work in Quebec. It is illegal for any company other than Hydro Quebec to sell electricity by the kWh. They only way they can “sell” electricity is to continue with the current model of prepaying it with the car for unlimited charges OR with paying per charge with no limit whatsoever on kWh being used. A compromise for sure..

Ronald Marlow III RM3

This system is very similar to ChargePoint system. If this is the future method of paying for charge, this will be cool.

I am liking this when I get my fully autonomous model 3 I will rent it out and hopefully it will pay for it self in less than one year. Oh and I live in Las Vegas, which may be one of the most perfect places to accomplish this feat. lol…..