Tesla Now Accounts For 45% Of Plug-In Electric Cars Sales In U.S.

JUL 29 2018 BY MARK KANE 126

Will that figure exceed 50% soon?

In June, Tesla sold some 11,362 electric cars in the U.S.,Β according to IEVs estimations, and that’s enough to achieve a new record share for the plug-in market.

Believe it or not 45% of all plug-in cars sold last month (25,179) were Tesla cars, and that’s when you include plug-in hybrids. Limiting it to just BEVs (14,612), Tesla dominated the market at nearly 78%.

The previous peak months were September 2016 (44%) and March 2016 (42%).

Because we expect that Tesla Model 3 production should be above 5,000 a week for most of this month, there should not be a problem with exceeding 50% share among all plug-in cars in the U.S.

The question is how high could that figure reach this year – 60%, 70%?

Tesla Model S/X Sales in U.S. – June 2018

Categories: Sales, Tesla

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126 Comments on "Tesla Now Accounts For 45% Of Plug-In Electric Cars Sales In U.S."

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It’s not a secret that Tesla will account for more than 50% of EV sales. TM3 is being produced in record numbers and the demand is not diminishing.

any production numbers for the last few weeks available yet??

I show about 15,500 total July production, or 3500 a week average for Model 3..

David “green” — is that from the same magical source you keep pretending exists, yet over and over when you are asked, you fail to produce?

Wait and see, I found the source, so I think you could too… Its like your accusation of my post on Duramax Forum, which I have never posted in… I am waiting? You find a post I made in that Forum, and I will share the link publicly to the production data I follow? BTW, I already shared it with certain writers on this site. Many of the automotive journalists, and analysts are following the same twitter account, and I think Bloomberg is even adjusting to this data. I think its pretty darn credible, as at a minimum the guy is staking out the factory.

If it is Skabooshka on Twitter, it’s a highly unreliable source.

Dang, you spoil all my fun, I was wanting to see the post Nix was accusing me of posting on the Duramax forum…

I don’t do Twitter, and I don’t dox people’s other accounts on other forums. *shrug*

If people want to see your posts about you bragging about driving your GM diesel truck at 90 MPH across Montana, they can find that right here in the archives at insideev’s, they don’t even have to go to any duramax forum.

Are you admitting that your source for numbers is the already well debunked “Skabooshka” who is a mentally imbalanced Tesla hater who ALSO doesn’t provide his source?

If you want to tie yourself to that anchor….. Nice try at attempting to distract away from your attempt at passing off the use of your use of unsourced loonies as if they were factual.

Haha! You know I have not posted in Duramax forum, you and pups, just making things up…

Yes, I have driven my pickup 90 mph in MT, ID, and Eastern WA, Its wide open country and most people drive at least that fast… I have been passed a few times in Montana over 90 mph. Actually if you want to talk about top speed though, that would be 98 mph, where the governor comes in on the pickup… 90 is more like a cruising speed. Actually when I bought my Cadillac CTS-V at Dave Smith Motors in Kellogg Id, I hit 165mph on the way home in between Spokane and Moses Lake, making sure the tires are well balanced… Thats the fastest I have ever gone in a car.

Since you clearly went far out of your way not to address your use of debunked anti-Tesla crank “Skabooshka”, who was exposed on another EV board as a regular “Montana Skeptic” retweeter, I will take that as a confirmation that “Skabooshka” is your source for your bogus numbers.

Thanks for letting us know where you get your FUD. I look forward to linking to the bogus tweets of this nutter each time you parrot him, so everybody can see what your real sources are.

haha! and how was this guy debunked? he was the first to post about the factory fires, before they were ever reported, and last month when Bloomberg corrected their model 3 tracker, they corrected it to his numbers… And then almost nailed the quarterly production released by Tesla…. So you can say what you want, and I cannot argue as I do not know the actual source of the information, but it sure seems to match all the other data circling around. I am curious, you are so quick to rip my sources of information, but you do not put any of your own guesses or information out there? Why is that? You do not have any valuable information? You spend most of your time trolling other posters on this forum, but actually do not add anything of value… You are like pupu, a guy who does not even drive, but yet constantly gives his input on cars, and driving experiences. I mean, I am happy to debate with you, but when you lose I do not want to hear your whiny little excuses.

How were skabooshka’s numbers “debunked”? He mailed the last week of June.

And how was he “exposed”? He makes it very clear he thinks Tesla is a financial house of cards. How does one expose what’s already in plain sight?

Oh, and thanks for confirming your ownership of a GM pickup with your confirmation of the “(98 MPH) MAX SPEED” which is also documented in the owner’s manual:

https://my.chevrolet.com/content/dam/gmownercenter/gmna/dynamic/manuals/2018/2018-duramax-diesel-owners-manual-supplement.pdf

haha! Dude, I have always said I have a GMC Denali HD, I have even posted pictures of it on here in the snow… Thats not late breaking news… I also posted previously that I have owned a CTS-V, and a Z06 Corvette, these are not revelations…

If you have a post in the Duramax Forum you think I posted, Dox away… I have never even seen that forum except when I googled about the brake life, to see if others were getting the same crazy long life I am getting. 150K miles, and still 50% pad life.

I realize you are trying to bait me into breaking forum rules by doxing you, but I’m not going to take the bait.

Actually dude, I just want to put a stop to your false accusations… and nonsense… If there is one thing I am its straight up, If I posted something I will back it up.. But this is like arguing car factories like you did with me months back, you are ill equipped to take on that debate, as I have been in car factories on multiple continents, and have close friendships with vehicle line executives for multiple companies. I know what goes on behind the scenes, and how cars go through development, and testing.

Your close ties with the ICE industry and your buddies who are ICE executives certainly explains your interest in attacking Tesla endlessly. You are far from straight-up, as multiple people have exposed on multiple green car websites you troll. You are a well known entity.

No, I’m not going to dox your posts on those websites either, and never have. Even though posting links to your same nonsense would show you KNEW your BS had ALREADY been debunked elsewhere before you ever cut and paste it here.

People like you in the ICE industry is why Tesla is so adamant not to allow a bunch of ICE car dealerships who have a long history of bashing Tesla and EV’s from being able to own Tesla franchises.

OK, Since I have not posted on Duramax Forum, I certainly have nothing to worry about you doxxing me on, you would only expose yourself to the embarrassment of misrepresentation. As for the other green car sites, well that would be Electrek which is a purely Tesla fan boy site, and Clean Techna which tries to pretend to be about green initiatives, but they have slipped with writers like Zach, and the Grumpy Old Man, neither of which are Americans. I feel like Zach, Grumpy, and Fred are all Tesla stock pumpers, they are just trying like mad to have their investment work out. Tesla did not want to have dealerships because they thought it would be more cost effective to control their user experience, but considering that Tesla has the highest S,G, & A cost per car in the industry, it seems another place Elon failed. Are you getting ready for a fun ride this week? I think its going to be a week to remember, lots to chat about. Do you have any predictions? Lets compare to see who is closer to the real data?

For wanting me to dox you, you certainly did the job pretty well yourself. You exposed that you are just another Tesla hater who’s primary goal here is to spread Tesla hate. Let’s review what we learned here today:

1) Your choice of what green websites you post on is based around where you can most attack Tesla and Tesla supporters.
2) You are an ICE car company insider, who parrots all the ICE car company attacks on Tesla.
3) Your “source” for your fake Tesla numbers is to parrot a known anti-Tesla hack that doesn’t provide his supposed source for his numbers either. (No wonder you’ve been hiding your “source”)
4) While at the same time you bash Pushy for not owning an EV, you drive two of GM’s dirtiest gas guzzlers since the Hummer.
5) Your primary interest in Tesla is attacking Tesla’s financials, and has nothing to do with EV’s, promoting EV’s, or anything green.

Nix, Pushy does not even drive… he is hardly a person to talk about a cars abilities etc… If you want to insult me because I have a pickup truck, you might want to look at where you live, and wonder how it got built… Look at Tesla’s factories, and wonder how they got built… Look at Teslas cars and wonder how they get shipped? Have you seen the Tesla supercharger at the Burbank storage lot, its hooked directly to a diesel generator, so you can talk smack all you want , but the simple fact is you are clueless to how the world works, how things are built, and how things get done. Have you ever wondered how many flights Elon Musk takes a week on his Gulfstream G650 that are not work related? 18 flights last week, some to Van Nuys, some to san Jose, some to Reno, and another resort airport near Reno. How do those emissions compare to my truck? Is Elon’s jet the only one in the world with exhaust after-treatement to cut down on NOX (like my pickup has)? And what is the fuel burn for him to commute home? I am guessing he… Read more »

Your continued Age Discrimination against an EV enthusiasts on an EV enthusiast site because they cannot drive, just so you can use any attack possible against anything or anyone Tesla related just adds #6 to your list of your massive disgraces.

Care to go for #7? Here’s your shovel, please keep digging.

Mr. “Green” has given us every reason to disbelieve everything he says about Tesla, but despite that, he’s probably approximately correct on Tesla’s production, at least earlier in the month. Hopefully Tesla did increase the rate later in the month.

Given the fact that no other car maker has a serious, attractive, full utility BEV under $50k on the market in the US right now, Tesla could end up with a huge chunk of the electric car buying public next year. Nissan will finally get a full utility BEV when the 60 kWh Leaf arrives, but until then, they have a limited utility, short range BEV with no thermal management. Chevy has the Bolt but between the cheap interior, uncomfortable seats, poor reputation of small Chevy cars and the bug eyed look, it just isn’t going to get any traction sales-wise without a large decrease in price. The Volt is a great car, but it simply hasn’t caught on and probably never will. I love mine, but I probably won’t get another GM product unless they build a CUV with Voltec tech. The PiP is a joke when it comes to range, pity, the car could be so much more with just 4 or 5 more kWh. Fords plug ins aren’t much better when it comes to range. Honda may be the sleeper, we will see. Tesla could dominate the market in 2018, if they can increase the 3 build… Read more »

GM could sell a lot more Bolts if they would bother to actually build them. They promised a 20% increase for the latter part of the year, but little sign of it actually starting yet.

What’s the point of making more Bolts when they are sitting in dealer lots? Local dealer has 19 in stock, 12 at $32K.

And yet cars.com shows only 22 within a 250 mile radius of Austin TX.

Buy in CA and have it shipped if you really want it. Even with $1K in shipping, it’s still cheaper to buy in CA and have it shipped than MSRP.

You have to be careful. I was looking at a Volt deal the other day and in the fine print it said: “residency restrictions apply”.
https://www.markchristopher.com/chevy-volt-clear-the-lot-eblast

Caveats may apply, but considering Truecar shows average Bolt price to be $34K, buying elsewhere for average price and having it shipped is still cheaper than MSRP.

Considering you can find used Tesla Model S’ in the $30’s now, doesn’t seem to be much point in buying a Bolt. The Bolt is the perfect car at the wrong time. If Chevy had rolled in out 2-3 years sooner it coulda been a game-changer.

Used Model S does not offer $7500 tax credit… Or a warranty if that is nearing expiration… Tesla’s are expensive to maintain out of warranty…

I wish people would STFU about the $7,500 tax credit. A majority of Americans don’t pay that much in federal income taxes, so this is basically a non-issue. Most Americans can wait until 2019 and still get the maximum tax credit they will be entitled to especially since the EV tax credit doesn’t carry over from year to year.

And before anyone says anything about leasing, the argument above is talking about the tax credit not being offered on a used Model S.

As for maintenance outside of warranty, there are far fewer parts to fail/break in EV cars compared to ICE cars. There are only a few components (battery pack and drive unit) that are substantially expensive, but they have longer warranties on those parts. Additionally, the new vehicle limited warranty and the extended service agreement can transfer to the new owner. The warranty will only become an issue after the car is 8 years old and that won’t happen on any Tesla car until 2020 at the earliest. By then I’m sure there will be some sort of warranty/insurance policy either offered by Tesla or a 3rd party that will help defray the costs of the most expensive parts.

You can lease used cars too.

You can but does Tesla does the 2 lease option

From what I’ve heard, repairing a faulty door handle on a used Model S is rather expensive … joke to say battery and drive are the only expensive parts.

I’m a HUGE Tesla fan and would love a Model S, but it’s an expensive, relatively uncommon car so I’m extremely leery of scraping up the dough for a used one, given the probability of expensive repairs that I can’t do myself.

Nah, it’s still a moderately wealthy person’s car at this point. But, it is still the only option with both significant highway range and an established nation-wide fast-charge network. No competition yet. Bolt could be argued, but IMO the charging network is too thin to qualify.

I think you are muddying the waters – it isn’t just a tax credit – (a reduction on your taxable income) it is straight up 7500 in cash. – That is a meaningful amount of money for most people.

Funny since I’ve driven 100k miles (warranty ended at 50k miles) and had ZERO out of warranty cost on my 2015 85D.

With $10K subsidy in CA, $34K Bolt is effectively $24K. When on sale, you can get it even less, $22K.

Now that is getting down to the level of compelling value, IMO. That’s going toe to toe with it’s ‘hot hatch’ competition on price after dealer discounting.

Unfortunately, as someone noted above, the full $7500 federal tax credit isn’t available to many of the people who might consider buying a $22k Bolt, because of lack of sufficient income tax liability.

It is straight up 7500 cash back regardless of your tax liability

Sanslce, no it’s not. It’s a $7500 non-refundable tax credit, meaning you need to have at least $7500 in tax liability to take full advantage of it. According to TurboTax, that’s about an annual income of $47,000 after deductions and exemptions for a single payer.

In California, you do get a $2500 cash back rebate, or more if you can qualify based on a lower income level. If you make too much money, there are restrictions on the $2500 rebate in conjunction with the carpool lane stickers.

Not everyone likes big huge cars the size of a Model S

Yo, Exactly, that is what first turned me off about Model S, its such a big car… But for such a large car, it has a small back seat… Lots of cargo area though..

Yeah, you hate big cars so much; that’s why you drive a full-sized pickup. πŸ™„

Yea, he drives a full size HD pickup, and a Caddie CTS, a couple of the biggest, fattest dirty gas guzzlers on the road since the Hummer, and says the Model S is too big…..

This guy is unbelievable. As in it isn’t possible to believe him.

Nix, I think I hear your mommy calling… its bed time little boy!

At least bro1999 bought a Chevy Bolt. This guy must have some financial incentive for this nonsense. He doesn’t strike me as the looney(Keith Leach) type.

David Green has more ‘green$$$’ than brains, lol-LOL

I am a general contractor, my truck works… Its not some showboat car. I drive it to work, and home… Then switch to one of our other cars…

Yeah, let me see what sort of work would allow people to be 24/7 online for posting anti Tesla fud…Oh, I know, troll farm! ROFLOL!

Ha! Well played sir!

Not touching 30k Tesla’s, high mileage and end of warranty and service centers overwhelm, plus the early drive trains are crap

And no repair manual or parts availability for low cost do-it-yourself repair.

That is a heck of a deal on the Bolt.. Makes it an even better value then the Leaf… What state are you in? Dealers here is WA, will not go down near that much on the price…

Search autotrader, and you’ll see many of them listed at that price. I think they’re in CA, but I sometimes see MD having even better price.

Check Rydell Cheverolet in Northridge, CA. They knock $4k off the Bolt and Volts typically last half of the month. When I got my Volt in 2014, they were the number 1 dealer of Volts in the country, which comes with incentives from Chevy for the dealership. Probably still the same deal. They do a lot of shipping out to other states.

They are selling lots in South Korea…

Yelp, my dealer in Elyria Ohio had 3 Bolts on the dealer lot for the past 2 months and now it’s down to 1

GM isn’t going to build many more Bolt EVs per year, because their profit margin on the car is so small. Profits they have to split with LG Electronics & LG Chem, which builds the entire EV powertrain for the car.

I’m glad that GM is producing a decent “city car” BEV, but clearly they aren’t yet serious about building and selling compelling plug-in EVs in large numbers. We’ll know they’re getting serious when they start building or buying high-capacity battery cell factories whose production GM controls, rather than continuing to be dependent on LG’s production rate.

Here in Toronto Canada Bolts are more rare than Ferarris and Lambos or Mclarens ,and thats is with the $14,000 tax subsidy that has been eliminated by the new Prov. Gov’t. for 2019 they will be non existent, nobody will pay $45,000Can$ for a electrified Sonic. ,Mod3 I see one every 2 days.Mod S i see 3-5 times daily in Toronto and Leafs of any kind basically absent.TESLA brand is AMAZING!,everyone who wants an EV wants one !!!

I paid under $16,000 for my horribly limited 40kWh Leaf that can only take me to work and back and drive all around town starting at 50% or less SOC. I was so worried about the car exploding in the 110 degree heat on the highway yesterday, but somehow the battery temp gauge stayed well under the red zone. What a miracle!

And I don’t understand why I decided on the Leaf vs. paying $24,000+ more so I can have a car that can get me to LA in the two times a year I have to drive there. Guess I’ll have to walk the 200 miles or something.

So after subsidy in CA, you paid $6K for 40 kWh Leaf? For some, Leaf might be worth $6K. For me that’s still too expensive.

no, under $16,000 after $15,500 in subsidies that would be available for the purchase of a Model 3, too.

well, I also got a 0% 72-mo loan that’s worth several thousand vs. Tesla. Hell the 6% I’m earning on the $24,000 I didn’t spend — $120/mo — on the Model 3 will pay for all the occasional rentals I need with the Leaf.

Considering BoltEV was going for $22.5K last month after $7.5K fed + $2.5K CA, you paid $7K less if you only had $10K in subsidy. But Bolt offers 90 miles extra range and 1.5 sec quicker 0-60 time. Tesla 3 LR is 90 miles extra and 0.5 sec quicker compared to SR, yet that option is $9K. And Bolt comes with TMS that you don’t worry about hot weather degradation or DCFC slowing. Bolt is a bargain compared to Leaf.

If Bolt had $15.5K subsidies available, it would’ve been $16.5K. So your Leaf is missing all the above features (90 extra miles, quicker, no worries on temperature) only for $500 less. Seems to me you got a pretty rotten deal.

There are 3 Bolts listed in inventory in my town, two $43510 MSRP, one $38,545.

Getting a car out-of-town is a non-starter, I want the dealer to be there for me with capable tech staff for any issues.

I could have waited for the 60kWh Leaf — and I was actually waiting for the Kona and Niro EVs until it became clear that supply in CA will be tight — but I decided an extra 20kWh wasn’t worth even $1000 – $2000 to me.

Like I said, in the very rare instances I need to drive more than 150 miles in a day, I’ll just put the miles on an Enterprise rental.

Why don’t you ride the bus to work too? Just sayin’….

By the way, if using a rental was your intent, a BMW might have been an option. Their Flexible Mobility program provides 14 days of loaners for free

https://evobsession.com/bmw-flexible-mobility-program-gets-upgraded/

https://www.bmwoffremont.com/bmw-i3-flexible-mobility-program.htm

With that said, I hope you are enjoying your EV!!

“Why don’t you ride the bus…”?

Down in the hood, there Is a reason why they call takin’ the bus, the “Shame Train”!

A BYD EV bus, Less Shame, More Train!

You can get Bolt service just about any Chevy dealer. But if spending $7K to $14K more to service your car at the dealer you bought from, that’s terrible waste of money.

sure, but I want to directly reward the dealers that are putting EVs on their lot.

Dealer gave me $4500 off MSRP ($3000 NMAC cash + $1500 discount), so I think I got a decent deal regardless. Internet posters say better deals on the Leaf were available in San Jose area, but I don’t want to drive to San Jose for service next decade.

You could service the vehicle at any Nissan dealer

He’s including the subsidies

It’s equally amazing that anyone would pay $20-30 or even more for a meal at a fine restaurant, when they could go to McDonald’s or Hardee’s and get one for $5 or even less.

Why don’t all the fine restaurants go out of business?
/s

I just need a ride mainly to get me the 20 miles to and from work, ya know??

I would prefer a two-door couple though, like I said elsewhere I’d kill for a BEV-ed up A5, 3000GT-VR4, or (AWD) RX-7.

Maybe next decade.

Troy, I don’t know if you realize the contradiction in your post. Where you first say you just need A to B basic transportation, and then say how you would kill for a BEV version of rare specialty ICE cars.

I think the answer to the question of why people buy the cars they buy (including Tesla’s 45% US market share) is already in your own post….

I’m in my 50s now so with my Gen 2 Leaf with 1000 miles on the clock I have maybe one more car purchase left in life.

It ain’t going to be another four-door sedan.

“I just need a ride mainly to get me the 20 miles to and from work, ya know??”

Honestly, I’m glad your Leaf fits your lifestyle, and that you’re happy with it. And if you hadn’t made your first post on the subject here heavily laden with sarcasm directed at Tesla, I wouldn’t have had any reason to compare your Leaf to a meal at McDonald’s. (For the record, I eat at McDonald’s sometimes.)

Peace? πŸ™‚

He wasn’t claiming Tesla should go out of business. He just pointed out that for someone like him, the Leaf is a very good purchase. Not everyone wants to pay the premium for a Tesla, just as not everyone wants to pay the premium for a fine restaurant every day.

Troll. He was a Conscious buyer and got what he needed

The Volt’s sales are completely inline with its design. lt is a small 4 door, 4 seater with a sportscar sized back seat and a $30k price tag. Mini sold with 47,000 units in the U.S. last year. The Clubman has a starting price around $25k. GM knew the expected sales for this vehicle when they designed it.

Couple of months ago, I mention that monthly sales chart will be effectively Tesla sales chart and had lots of thumbs down. Reality is hitting us.

I’m more surprised with the #2 and #3 rankings than anything else. Given the delta in prices, by all rights some of the more moderately priced EV’s should be in #2 and #3. Other car makers really need to step up.

And step up “bigly”, in a “uuge” way…

before…

…or else,

It’s Game oEVer!

M3 Owned- Niro EV TBD - Former 500e and Spark EV,

Like Ziv said, 2018 is Tesla’s to own. 2019 will see introduction of decent 200+ mile vehicles with the Leaf, Niro, and Kona.

2020 is where all the other manufacturers entry to make it really interesting and particularly challenging for Tesla who will be without the Federal incentive and erases the cost advantage gained from the Gigafactory and simplified materials design of the Model 3.

If the Fed eliminates (or reups for Tesla), it’ll be an interesting fight, but Tesla will have troubles come 2020 because of that–until then, Tesla is going to have their cake

Tesla has SOME amount of tax incentives each month for all of 2019 as it sunsets. If anything, each quarter where there is a drop in incentive in the next quarter there will be a massive boost in Tesla sales as people try to get in under the wire. the threat of LOSING incentive will boost sales. (This is the well known sales power of the “limited offer” and it works.)

Meanwhile if the number 2, 3, and 4 EV car makers in the US actually hit sales numbers in the 5k/week range to compete with Tesla in 2019, they too will quickly enter incentive sunset. 2020 will see the top companies all somewhere in the process of sunsetting, leveling the incentive playing field yet again.

Either that or the incentive will have been killed or reformed. I can’t see the massive lobbying power of the major car makers allowing a bunch of smaller also-ran car makers to keep getting incentives while theirs are all sunsetting. Look at the states where the major car makers have factories in the US (both foreign badges and US badges).

Can Tesla sell the model 3 base and get the monies without delivering the vehicle to count as a tax credit or it has to be in the driveway and delivered

The tax incentive doesn’t go to Tesla. It goes to the buyer.

Not really.. 2020 is still a bit early due to cell production constraints. Likely the volume platforms don’t really arrive until 2021-2024. And even then, it is more back weighted. But of course, Tesla continues to grow throughout that time.

Go Tesla! Make me an A5 or better yet 3000GT-VR4 coupe to replace my 2018 Leaf and you got a customer!

Or a nice camper van, I’d like one of those too.

Yeah the short sellers are trying to say Tesla can’t produce enough EV yet Tesla sells more EV than any manufacturer in the US has no EV sitting for months on dealer lots and the only problem they have is getting production to meet the unbelievable demand. The same thing with there storage batteries and solar roofs. Trump threw a hand grenade into things with his tariff war rhetoric, but the damage will not only be autos, farmers with soybeans, fisherman, Caterpillar with steel and aluminum and Caterpillar gets there aluminum from Alcoa which has plants in Canada. Trump regularly creates problems that claims he rescued a problem caused by someone else.

Why does every Tesla article need to mention the short sellers? There are short sellers for every public company. One can short a stock without expecting a company to go belly up. You will never get rid of them. Am I the only one who gets irritated by mention of short sellers on these forums?

It’s not the act of short-selling we object to; it’s the way so many Tesla (TSLA) short-sellers try to manipulate the stock price by seeking out pro-EV forums, like this one, and trolling them with anti-Tesla FUD. We would be very, very, very, very glad to never have cause to mention anti-Tesla FUDsters. It’s amazing that there is little or no anti-Tesla FUD infesting the comments on this one particular Tesla-related article here at InsideEVs, but that’s a very rare occurrence.

Yes, there are short-sellers for every public company. But none of those short-selling any other company’s stock are engaged in an organized campaign to spread FUD about the company and manipulate the stock price! Or at least, not noticeably so.

Some EV-related forums have had all their value destroyed by infestations by FUDsters, who make civil discourse impossible. Some comment threads here at InsideEVs have been, also. Most of us would like to see that permanently stopped.

Edit: I spoke too soon; I see “David Green” is posting FUD here.

FWIW, I do get annoyed by certain posters attributing every FUD post to short sellers, when I’m pretty sure most of the FUDsters here are just garden variety internet trolls, merely out for negative attention.

When talking about FUD in the wider media though, bringing up short sellers does make sense, since it’s a fact that they are responsible for a significant part of the FUD.

While it’s true that every stock has some short sellers, most of them just bet against it passively, rather than actively trying to bring the company down. What’s happening to Tesla is *not* normal.

There are actual admitted shorters who post here, who openly admit holding a short position.

Then there are other folks who have their own agendas (fuel cell FUDsters, people posting based upon brand loyalty grudges, etc) who simply find it convenient to parrot the same talking points that are initiated by folks like Desperately Seeking Alpha and Montana Skeptic.

Frankly I can’t be bothered caring which are which. Whether they are admitted shorters, or just parrot shorter talking points as a convenient weapon is all the same as far as the damage they cause.

Yeah, I know there are some genuine short sellers here — but at least those I have seen so far mention a short position, are not those responsible for all this noise…

What if Tesla sold 25000 cars in US in July?

Then Tesla would have exceeded their own peak production targets, made up for an intentional 4th of July holiday closure, and re-routed S/X international sales back to the US that they normally send overseas in Jan, April, July, and Oct.

It would be a big surprise to everyone.

Tesla IS changing the S/X international vs. domestic cadence. They said so in the 11TH earnings release and again in the Q2 production update.

20k Model 3s would be 5k/week from 7/5-31 plus the ones built early July 1. As long as in-transit did not increase from 6/30’s 11k+.

I certainly don’t expect 25k US deliveries, but that’s their guidance.

Tesla deliveries will be quite impressive this month thanks to the Model 3…

But not even close to 25,000 I’m afraid! πŸ™‚

Wade, will they impress me? I am staying with anything less then 15K Model 3 sold is a disappointment as that would only represent 4000 July built cars being sold in the month.

You must really be unimpressed and disappointed by GM and Nissan if 15K or even 4K is your standard for a month of sales impressing you. Any problem with you not being impressed would just reflect your anti-Tesla derangement and double standard you apply only to them.

To put it in perspective, 15K in one month would be double the number of total US Bolt sales so far this entire year!!

If Tesla were to repeat their Model S/X US sales number last month of 5K+ in sales, along with 15K in TM3 sales, they would out-sell ALL US pure BEV sales from ALL other EV car makers FOR THE ENTIRE FIRST 6 MONTHS OF 2018 COMBINED!!! (source: plug-in sales scorecard)

The reality is that Tesla Model 3 sales were damn impressive even at just last month’s levels. But I’ll predict right now that no matter what sales are for July as they continue ramp-up, you will find some way to complain about their sales.

I am not here discussing GM (I did buy GM stock again last week though), this conversation is about Tesla Model 3… Tesla guided 5K per week Model 3 production, ramping to 6K at the end of August. That means they should have made 23,300 Model 3’s in July…. (my guess is 15.5K produced, or around a 40% miss) Tesla also announced 11.4K Model 3 in transit to end Q1, lets assume all of those were delivered? and 4K of new builds? Thats 15K… Those should have been available for delivery…. Less I feel there is demand problems, especially on the RWD… Data will be out soon… Lets see what happens. Tesla sales in general are impressive… No doubt about it, for a new EV producer. But I look at the company as an investor, the way I look at every company, in that way the story is much less impressive. Tesla has had great sums of capital for their operation, and has made mistake after mistake blowing through the cash pile. That said I doubt they will go out of business, as there are too many supporters, and I feel the short thesis of fraud is not the case.… Read more »

David “green” said: “I am not here discussing GM”

You aren’t here to discuss green cars either.

I could care less about engaging bulls and bears or in talking with any investors like yourself. This is a green car site, not an investment site. I care about green cars and green energy.

Not here discussing EV? No, I am constantly deflecting personal attacks from you, and others.

When it comes to EV promotion, I have been quite active, always trying to steer my friends to EV’s. Most of my comments are pretty fair about the EV’s I drive, I still have not driven Ioniq, but have driven all of the others currently on the market, including all 3 Tesla models. You ought to pay attention, and instead of attacking my personal life, try to attack my stats and figures… Then we can talk EV’s… Instead of insults.

Most of the time you are talking about how companies run their operations, than about actual cars… And when you do talk about cars, more often than not you are still throwing in unprovoked anti-Tesla FUD, which not exactly conductive to rational conversation.

Not so much in praise of Tesla, but in ridicule of the American car manufacturers.
Oh sure, GM Is coming out with 20 electric models in 4 years, and Ford is developing an autonomous vehicle.
Bah, Humbug! Anyone who goes around with GM & Ford on their lips should be boiled in their own oil and buried with a exhaust pipe staked through their hearts.

That is a very uplifting message…

It could probably be toned down a notch or two, but then that wouldn’t be quite so “uplifting”, in the grand scheme of things.

ffbj, you do realize that Tesla is an American car manufacturer? And that ugly as it is, the Bolt is still twice the car that the current Leaf is?

This isn’t healthy. We don’t want another situation like where Toyota owned the vast majority of the plug-in hybrid market, and other hybrid’s besides the Prius were also-ran’s in sales numbers.

What we want is a repeat of the Audi A4/S4 vs BMW 3-Series vs. Infinity G’s vs. Mercedes C’s, vs etc wars. Where multiple car companies compete against each other and force each other to improve, where buyers have lots of very good options.

We keep hearing about all the EV’s coming to market from other car makers. Well, jump on in, the water is warm!

“Well, jump on in, the water is warm!”

And getting a bit warmer every year! πŸ™ https://www.epa.gov/climate-indicators/climate-change-indicators-sea-surface-temperature So more EV’s please! πŸ™‚

LOL! I see what you did there…. Nice one!

Healthy or not, there is no denying Tesla offers the most compelling solution. If nothing else, just look at the awful state of CCS/Chademo clogged with free chargers and commercial users (ride share and more) fighting for 1 or 2 handle site. Tesla will be #1 by a wide margin in EV for quite a while longer, maybe even for decades.

All of this clogged DC charger CHAdeMO/CCS “Freeness”, is just another feather in the hat of the Tesla SC network, and the Model 3.

More props to come for the Model Y, when it hopefully starts its adequate volume deliveries in 2021.

yeah I want to punch Lyft drivers that hog the CCS. One guy was at 95% when an out-of-town Bolt driver wanted to charge, I asked the Lyft driver how much time he had left since the other people wanted his pump, he said 20 minutes . . .

One of the main reasons I paid the $5000 to upgrade from a 2015 to 2018 Leaf was to avoid the necessity of having to have a free pump occasionally when I have multiple errands to run in a day. 24kWh at 85% SOH was a bit tight, 40kWh will be fine.

You’re going to want to punch out Leaf and i3 drivers as well. Free charging Leaf drivers also take full 30 min free that’s allocated to them whether the car is 88% or 99% and tapered to 3kW out of 50 kW charger. Problem is not solely on the drivers but the companies offering free charging enabling such fiasco.

At least Chevy is limiting number of Maven cars and working on dedicated DCFC for ridesharing and self driving use. But Nissan and BMW have no plans to reduce the congestion. The more i3 and Leaf sold means worse EV experience for everyone. Especially problematic with Leaf is severe taper that makes them visit DCFC more often.

“Tragedy of the Commons” is all too common. If something is perceived to be free, people will take advantage of it to the point that it is ruined for everyone. We had an EVGo fast charger near me that was constantly in use by a small number of Leafs owned by a local taxi company. No one else was at the chargers the multiple times I drove by. I have heard that the taxi drivers “encouraged” other BEV owners NOT to use it. The last part is hearsay but the fact was that I never saw a car on it that wasn’t a pink taxi in 3 or 4 months. Because it was “free”.

M3 Owned- Spark Leased - Niro EV TBD

Owned M3 for 5K and only visted supercharge once just to try it out. o/w still charging all the time at home overnight once every 2-3 nights and only to 90% since can do they without range anxiety anymore.

For the vast majority of folk, travel charging will come with destination charging–minus the Lyft-Uber folk

I can’t agree more. As a new Tesla owner I did a road trip of 275 miles. I have read all I could on Tesla as I waited for my car and still I was surprised how fast and convenient their Superchargers are. While I do 95% of my charging at home the Superchargers were a delight on the long hauls.

Yup. I’m glad Jaguar is selling the I-Pace. Tesla needs real competition, so they don’t get fat, lazy, and sloppy, like American auto manufacturers did in the late 1960s and 1970s.

I’m ambivalent about this. On one hand, I can see that having singular offerings effectively hogging entire segments, can be somewhat detrimental to EV adoption. On the other hand, I believe that right now a much larger problem is the lack of *any* attractive offerings in many many segments. As long as that’s the case, I’d rather Tesla keeps having little direct competition, so they are in a better financial position to enter more segments, that don’t have any attractive offerings coming at all in the foreseeable future otherwise…

I actually agree with you completely. We need WAY more different types of EV’s, and anything that opens up more markets is great. Just frustratingly slow.

I would like some budget SUV options. Some PHEVs with 50 miles range and some BEVs. And no I don’t mean raised sedans passing off as SUVs.

I would like Chevy to build both an EREV (w/at least 40 miles of AER) and a 70+ kWh BEV version of the Encore. Doesn’t need to be a real SUV, a CUV with an all wheel drive option is fine.
A BEV or EREV Chevy Colorado would be pretty cool, even though it wouldn’t be useful for me. Not sure if an electric Silverado would sell with pack prices where they are now and where they will be for the next few years. Maybe by 2021 or so.

Is Tesla the Myspace of EVs, or the Facebook? It’s going to be exciting, that’s for sure!

The fact that you are comparing physical products with virtual social media products is a tad worrying.

Seven fake electrics lives in a world of make believe so you don’t have to worry about anything. That should be left to his psychiatrist in the delusional ward.