Nissan LEAF Slide – 225-Mile Range, $35,000 Price For 60-kWh Version

JAN 3 2018 BY ERIC LOVEDAY 86

It now seems that what we reported some 4 months back is being verified as truth by Nissan.

Sources, including some of our own, had previously let it be known that the upcoming 60-kWh Nissan LEAF would return 225-plus miles of EPA range, but it wasn’t until just recently that we’ve been able to let loose the intel directly from Nissan.

Related – Trusted Source Says 60-kWh Nissan LEAF Will Have 225-Plus Mile Range

The slide above shows the automaker’s intent with the 2019 LEAF. As you can see, it’ll be positioned range-wise against the likes of the base Tesla Model 3 and the Chevrolet Bolt.

The remaining question is price. While the slide says $35k+, we believe Nissan will undercut both of the listed competitors, if only by a bit.

Previously, Nissan’s executive vice president of global sales and marketing Daniele Schillaci, answered a question regarding range for the 60-kWh LEAF. His response was simply “more than 225 mile range.” He added “EPA” to that response and that’s precisely what we see in the slide.

As for timing for the 2019 LEAF with 225-plus miles of range, that’s anyone’s guess right now. It’s likely a bit further out than we’d like it to be, especially when you consider that the 2018 LEAF still has yet to arrive at dealerships in the U.S.

Nissan slide published by PushEVs

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86 Comments on "Nissan LEAF Slide – 225-Mile Range, $35,000 Price For 60-kWh Version"

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Gasbag

If Chevy had wanted to sell a lot of Bolts they should have offered a 40kWh version for 30K from the get go. They misjudged consumer’s willingness to pay for range.

F150 Brian

No, they planned to build 30K units in 2017 and It looks like they did exactly as planned.

Nick

Your statement does not contradict gas bags.

I think you’re both right.

GM wanted to move as many Bolts needed to cover credits, and no more.

ModernMarvelFan

GM doesn’t need 30K/year to cover its compliance requirement as you claims. It only needs less than 4K per year with the Bolt range to fulfill its “current” requirement.

And it currently has enough credits thru 2019.

Gasbag

They didn’t sell 30K they built about 30k and sold about 25k and only about 20k were in CARB states. All of which supports the supposition that they really didn’t want to sell to hat many regardless .

przemo_li

Aren’t CARB minimums increasing soon?

Wheren’t Bolt designed to satisfy EU soon stronger fleet wide emission limits?

For now, GM can and should be given some slack. Production ramp up is normal thing and opportunistically targeting palaces with strongest air quality protections and/or rebates to EVs is to be expected.

Let’s see how much GM will increase production in 2018.

Mint

This is GM. They know how to build cars in mass quantities. Nothing about Bolt production in 2017 indicates that GM is ramping up production.

I’d be very happy if GM proved me wrong, but I expect less than 50k this year worldwide.

God/Bacardi

They (sort of) tried that with the Spark EV…Towards the end of production, they were liquidating them with unbelievable lease deals and was one of the few GM leases to ever offer an unlimited mileage option…

GM EV-ed the ICE Spark, they apparently tried to do the same with the Sonic Hatchback, had that been done it would have been thousands less…

HVACman

GM developed an entirely new global BEV-specific platform (the BEV-II) for the Bolt and other future compact BEVs (two new Bolt-platform-based CUVs due out in the next 18 months). According to Josh Tavel, the Bolt’s Chief Engineer, the Bolt shares just a handful of parts with the Sonic. They did design the platform to be compatible with much of the same assembly tooling as the Sonic’s Gamma II platform so they could share the same assembly line.

http://gmauthority.com/blog/gm/gm-platforms/gm-bev-2-platform/

JayTee

GM doesn’t want to sell a lot of Bolts.

Marcus Heggus

The argument that GM just wants to sell Bolts as compliance cars is completely discounted. GM has set a firm course on ev development and stuck to it. The Bolt was no rush job as it was completely based on the Volt, designed by 2008. I expected the Bolt earlier in fact but the hybrid manufacturing plant was genius and puts Tesla to shame!

GM will continue introducing new ev models and variants at a rate Tesla could only dream of.

sveno

Correct.

Bolt EV is sold for 3 reasons:
1. Compliance/credits
2. General EV R&D
3. Brand marketing

Martin Winlow

I’m sure you are right (for now) but if they don’t want to sell them then what is the point? How often do you see the Bolt or even the Volt advertised compared to other offerings?

Mint

Well, there’s no need to advertize when they have a big backlog of orders in many regions.

The real question is why did GM plan for only 30k production. They knew demand was more than that.

Mint

You’re making excuses for GM. If they ramp up volume to 100k units next year, only then will the theory die.

As it is, the Bolt looks like a compliance+PR car. Around 80% of US sales are in CARB states. In Europe, virtually no supply of the Ampera-e. In Canada, Quebec gets almost twice as many Bolts as Ontario despite roughly half the auto market, huge demand (long waiting lists), and close proximity to the Michigan plant. Why? Because Quebec has a new ZEV mandate.

The PR is obvious. Ceiling to floor banners of the Bolt being Car of the Year in every dealership, yet no car to test drive (at least in Ontario).

GM knew demand was high well before the first prototype was built, so why would they only plan for 30k production?

Because that’s the useful number for compliance, and possibly that’s all LG would sell to them at a special price. LG also wanted the PR for beating Tesla.

sleekitwan
I gauge, GM are going as slowly as necessary to just maintain headway in the EV market. To fail to make some EVs would disappoint banks and financiers and that can include governments. It is like they say here, GM theoretically could build hangar-loads compared to Tesla. They appear to want to make sure they do not accidentally push Tesla harder. In other words, the free market is not really working in EV terms. The mainstream auto makers are doing that thing you do with a broom when trying to look busy until quitting time with the boss hanging around a lot. Sure, you have the appearance of working, but nobody really believes you are making any productive contribution to the overall enterprise by scraping the broom around the floor a bit. Look around the mainstream big names of the auto industry – leaning on sweeping brooms the whole lot of them, if Elon Musk would kindly die on a mission to Mars, they can sigh with relief and sabotage the whole electric malarkey with much more efficiency. These leopards have not yet changed their spots, not yet irreversibly committed to EV-only. The Old Guard will have to be ousted… Read more »
F150 Brian

Hmmm, I don’t see anywhere that Nissan confirmed the price… did I miss something?

carlosbcn

At the left of the first photo. Where says >200mi $35K+ , we will see what this “+” means..

MTN Ranger

60kW @ $35k will probably be the SV trim. I’m betting SL trim will be $38-40k, similar to Bolt EV base/premiere version spread.

James

So basically pay the difference between an air cooled battery pack and a thermally controlled one = one way to look at it.

With LEAF we get a more padded interior, and ACC. Look for the spendier versions of 60kwh LEAF to have a bit larger touchscreen in the center stack, I’m thinkin’…

Until LEAF gets a cooled and heated battery, I’m of the mind it’s best as a lease, not a purchase. Look to Tesla for resale value, because a high tide raises all ships, so to speak.

Bolt, i3 and other Evs without a T on the hood have a poor record at resale time. Great for us looking to pick up a screamin’ deal on the secondary market.

Davek

But the Leaf has a heat pump, right? In that case you could split it nicely saying Bolt for warm climates, Leaf for cold ones. Frankly I’m not desperate for battery cooling, as long as the car can still charge at a decent rate after a few hours on the highway. If it gets as bad as the e-Golf, down below 20 kW even in cold weather (see Bjorn’s video) then I’m with you: bring on the liquid cooling!

Dan F.

The heat pump (for cabin heating) comes as part of a cold weather package on the SV and SL I think from looking at their website. I haven’t seen one with this option on any of the Leafs in dealer inventory here in the S.F. bay area. Maybe in colder areas?

M3 - reserved -- Niro/Leaf 2.0/Outlander - TBD

Nope.

Also potentially exciting not on the slide

ATM – new pack; new supplier — probably ATM

Higher HP for Bolt level performance.

GM better get that Buick EV announced with a decent cargo space and wider comfortable seats to match up

You missed nothing the slide says TBD for the MY19 LEAF. 35K+ could mean $60,000, or $35,000. Pricing clearly hasn’t been set. To be competitive it will need to come closer to 35k.

Larry4pyro

Two questions. How will they stuff a 60 KWH pack into the new Leaf? Will this new battery pack have a TMS, and if not what has Nissan done to overcome the need for the TMS?

Dan

There was an article recently on another site that suggested the long range Leaf would have TMS and the battery would be made by LG Chem. They had this same slide, so it could be legit information.

ffbj

They have a TMS, just not a good one. Liquid Thermal Management is superior, they don’t have that, just a fan some bigger fins to dissipate heat.

No, the Leaf doesn’t even have fans. Passive air cooling = vents only.

Nick

The LEAF pack has no vents. It’s hermetically sealed.

That’s true. However Tte eNV200 has fans, its quite possible the fan assisted “cooling” will make it to the LEAF.

Tom S

Without active thermal management the Leaf refresh is DOA. It’s a good price but with the battery issues it’s a non starter.

Leptoquark

But, we don’t know it won’t, do we? I’ve heard no information either way. If Nissan indeed has a 60 kWh battery with no thermal management, that truly would be groundbreaking.

fred

DOA if no TMS

JayTee

Isn’t it selling well so far?

Nick

Not among the TMS loving crowd. 😀

ModernMarvelFan

It is leasing well for those people who aren’t planning to keep it longer than 3 years.

Those who buys would prefer a good TMS system.

Those who lease doesn’t give a darn about it.

Hugh

Well, I would love the 40kwh battery but if Nissan can bring in the 60 kph battery for 35k then I think I will wait.

(⌐■_■) Trollnonymous

No TMS no sale!

M3 - reserved -- Niro/Leaf 2.0/Outlander - TBD

No Sale, But Very lease worthy

Lord H

Will it have fast DC charging comparable to the Tesla Model 3?

Eric

Comparable to the Model 3 SR? Probably. Maybe a bit faster, but not by much.

Comparable to the Model 3 LR? Unlikely.

At best, the 60 kWh Leaf will have an average charge rate of 70-80 kW to 80%. Apparently, DC charger manufacturers are struggling to push CHAdeMO past 200 A, which will limit the Leaf’s charging rate.

Davek

Stick a fork in CHAdeMO!
Metaphorically. Doing so literally would be inadvisable.

Tyler

Agreed on all sentiments.?

William

So if Nissan delivers this 60 kWh Leaf in a year, it is only a little more than 2 years behind the launch of the (LG Chem inside) Chevy Bolt.
The (LG Chem inside) Nissan Leaf with a 60kWh battery, should be less expensive than the Bolt. If it runs above 35k, Tesla will have a hard time keeping up with new demand for the Base Model 3, when the existing orders are filled some time next year.

Someone out there

The difference is that with the LEAF you get a proper car. With the model 3 you get a metal box with an iPad glued in it.

Hauer

You should get more sleep. Or change medication.

jm

As David Letterman put it: “Stop cutting that Prozac in half. Take the whole thing.”

leafowner

Seriously (some one out there) – The Model 3 is basically a modern BMW 3 series. Read up on some of the early owner reviews.

wavelet

Range & price aren’t the only two considerations. In Most of the world, unlike the US, households have only one car.

I know several people for whom (like myself) the Model 3’s being a sedan rather than 2-box hatch is a dealbreaker… And one with a small, very awkwardly positioned trunk to boot (pun intended). (The cargo volume Tesla quotes includes the frunk, so the actual trunk is far smaller than typical for the midsize category, and so less usable.

Bill Howland

Better late than never, but if it doesn’t have a temperature conditioned battery its up for grabs its performance/longevity in extreme weather.
Buyers will want to peruse the warranty very carefully.

I lost interest in the initial leaf since the battery warranty on the leaf initially at least, was basically non-existent. If you carefully read the agreement – Nissan wasn’t legally responsible for anything.

I was going to get the $12,000 free replacement warranty with my Roadster, but complained that the warranty put all the responsibility on me and Tesla had to do essentially nothing.

The Tesla Rep HAD THEIR LEGAL DEPT REWRITE THE AGREEMENT (!!!). But it still wasn’t attractive enough for me so I never took it.

I mention this to say its not just one company that you have to watch the wording of the warranty.

You didn’t need to read the agreement carefully when buying the 2011/12 LEAF’s. The terms were clearly communicated, then you were asked to sign the document they had just explained. It was very very clear you had no coverage if the battery pack wears out.

They’ve since added a capacity warranty (even retroactively) but it wasn’t the most generous warranty. Since the 30kWh LEAF was introduced the warranty is at least decent, there is coverage up to 100,000 miles now.

midimal

I miss Hyundai KONA-EV and BMW I3 on this chart.

Fool Cells

their pitiful EV range does not make them a competitor.

leafowner

The I3 is NOT ~$29k — heck, they are not even ~$35k

Robster

I hope they bring 3 phase charging as well with the bigger battery. Home charging at 6,6kw is lousy. 11kw with 3 phase is perfect for normal charging

stimpy

Maybe they want to limit charging because of the pathetic air cooled battery?

fred

Its not even air cooled. The pack is fairly insulated.

Tyler

Right… DC quick charging charges at 400-500 volts and 95 amps. 46,000 watts.
There’s absolutely no way that going from 6.6kW to 11kW charging would matter to the battery. There are people who have added additional chargers on board and charge at 14kW.
Now, going to 11kW charging has the problem of being 45A at 240V so you can’t plug that EVSE into a 14-50 plug, you’d have to pull larger wire and have a higher amperage breaker. I’m already at 6AWG Romex, 50A breaker. I can safely charge up to 9.6kW.

Tyler

What advantage does 3 phase charging offer? Wouldn’t you have to go to a new connector to get 3 phase charging? The J1772 only has 3 pins for the main charging current and 1 is ground.
Also, where are you going to charge with 3 phase power? You don’t have 3 phase in residential applications.

HVACman

Many residential electrical services in the EU have 3-phase power. So many EV’s in Europe have on-board chargers that can accept 3 phase power.

The EU uses a “Mennekes” Type 2 charge connector that have the pins for both single and 3 phase AC.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Type_2_connector

Tyler

Interesting. I still don’t see the advantage of a 3 phase EVSE over a single phase EVSE… A Kilowatt is a Kilowatt and if you’re pulling 50 amps you need the same size wire.

T-R

Single-phase AC still need 2 wires, 3-phase needs 3 but gives you a 71% increase in Power for a 50% increase in wiring.

If you like learn more about 3-phase Power the wikipedia article is a good starting point.

Sch

In many countries in Europe you are not allowed to draw more than 25A from a single phase at home. And a common main circuit breaker for a home in 3x32A. So even if in your country it is legal to draw more you are done at 32A.
The car manufacturers have to offer cars with local onboard chargers. Like Tesla, in US you get a 10kW on board charger (240V 40A) but in Europe you will get a 11kW 3-phase onboard charger (3x230V 16A) and 22kW (3x230V 32A) used to be optional.

Bill Howland
T-R 73.2 % increase. If Wiki says 71% that is a pretty good percentage error. Example: 1 ampere of 480 volt 3 phase power will give you 831.4 watts. 1 ampere of single phase 480 volt power will give you 480 watts. TYLER you are quite correct that 3-phase offers no advantages TO THE CAR CHARGING operation. Unfortunately, In the states single phase limitations are in the 200-800 ampere range, with a broad limitation average of being 75-100 kw. This is right around the power level where it becomes more economic for the Utility to supply 3 phase power anyway. In Europe the limitations are 32 amperes for the UK and some of the NW Euro countries, to 15 amperes for Italy and Switzerland to 20 amperes for Germany. They tolerated single-phase charging of the Roadster but when the “S” was released Europeans in general said ‘enough is enough’, and Tesla capitulated and came out with 3 phase chargers in the car and 3 phase cord sets to satisfy the Euro objections. But the battery doesn’t care, since all bolts, volts, and ampera’s charge only at single phase no matter where they are. If you are looking for a ‘fast… Read more »
Tyler

Single phase requires 4 wires, L1, L2, Neutral and ground… unless you hard wire it. 3 phase would be 4 wires too L1, L2, L3 and ground.
I understand that 3 phase is more efficient, but I don’t see how that comes into play when charging a battery. I didn’t know homes had 3 phase in Europe. Tesla offers cars with dial on board chargers and people hook up the Tesla high power charger at home to a 100A circuit.

There’s another CHAdeMO home charger out there…I can’t remember the manufacturer but it requires a 100A circuit. It delivers up to 40A@500V.

Tyler

Dual on board chargers, not dial…

Ian

I believe single phase only needs 3 wires; L1, L2 and ground. Our plug in EVSE came with a Nema 6-50 plug. No neutral. The 14-50 plug is more popular but the neutral is not used. The units have no need for 110v internally.

Tyler

Correct, but if you’re wiring an outlet, the neutral has to be provided per the NEC.
Why more manufacturers don’t offer their EVSE with a 6-50 plug, I don’t know. Mine has a 14-50 plug so I installed it properly and up to code.
Can you install a 14-50 outlet with no neutral and have it work for your EVSE? Sure. What happens when someone plugs an RV into that outlet down the road and there’s no neutral?

Bill Howland

Tyler u are doing an apples and oranges comparison. Three phase in the general case requires an extra wire – and the ‘leg’ wires (sometimes called ‘phase’ wires) are the expensive ones to provide since they have to be provided each from a differing source, and have to have overcurrent protection and switching.

If you are comparing 4 wires on a single phase circuit, (say you need to run a table lamp), then in the 3 phase case you need to run 5 wires. But the utility has to run TWO more wires (triple the amount) since they have to insulate, switch, and provide overcurrent protection for 3 times as many wires in most cases. In Rural areas they only have to run 1 additional ‘expensive’ wire.

I’ve said this plenty of times here and elsewhere: the car battery doesn’t really care what you use. So I don’t see the conundrum.

Tyler

If you were supplying one 120V or 277V single phase light circuit you’d have L, N and ground. If you were doing one circuit for 208V or 480V lighting you’d have L1, L2 and ground… Still single phase. If it were a shared neutral multi branch you’d have 5 wires in 3 phase or 4 wires in a single phase panel. Not really sure why we got into lighting when we’re talking about car charging…?

Tyler

There’s no problem, I was just curious about if there were an advantage to 3 phase charging. Someone else brought up the number of wires. To my knowledge, all 3 phase plugs only have 4 wires. I’ve never seen a 3 phase plug with a neutral. I’d think a high current 3 phase EVSE would be most likely hard wired though.

Bill Howland

Tyler: “Neutral has to be provided per the NEC”.

NOT TRUE. A neutral has to appear at light switches, but only if the lights are 120 or 277 volts. 208 volt, 240 volt, and 480 volt lights are not legally required to have a neutral anywhere associated with them.

Tyler

It’s not required for a 240V plug like a 6-50 with only L1, L2 and ground but You cannot install a NEMA 14-50R outlet without a neutral.

Tyler

For that price, if they do an active thermal management and 60kWh, I will be buying a 2019 Leaf. I love my 2016, I just wish it had more range and active thermal management. That battery gets hot sometimes!

HVACman

I’d really bet Nissan’s 60 kWh pack will have active liquid-cooling. The engineers would have to suspend reality or have some really secret ultra-high temperature cell material to not actively-cool a pack that big.

To handle the 50-60 kW charge rates required to be competitive with the Bolt & Model 3 and put it in a compact battery package, the Leaf 60 kWh pack will have to have active thermal management to not cook the cells. Air cooling or natural-cooling just won’t work when you have 3-4 kW of continuous heat building up in the pack.

Tyler

True, plus they’re supposedly switching to LG chem. They manufacture the packs for GM and the Bolt has active thermal management.

If it turns out to be an LG pack Nissan will probably be obligated to include active thermal management. I doubt LG would extend a warranty to Nissan for their batteries without it.

Don Zenga

Great news.

If they price it at 35K, then it will compel GM to reduce the price of Bolt and also force Tesla to produce more base models at 35K.

But Nissan should also consider selling AWD version and rebadge Leaf as Crossover.

Meanwhile a dealership in Sacramento has put MY-2018 Leaf for sale with very little details.

Pipestem

Don, that is encouraging. I was just checking the Nissan web site and there is no inventory search for the 2018 Leaf. I know… oneday.

Preordered vehicles are coming in around the third week of January. After that, it may be the second or third week of February before more vehicles arrive at most dealerships.

Tesla will make more base models if they received orders for them. It’s not their decision which model their customers choose.

André Beaulieu

Absolutely not ! Tesla produces the first cars with expensive optional (forced ?) equipment simply because they need to optimize their profits. Everybody knows that buyers who were first attracted to the Model 3 were expecting to get a great car for $35000. , no more. But those cars will be mostly built and sold last quarter 2018 and beginning of 2019. That’s a long wait for buyers giving their $1000. deposits in January 2016. Nothing to do with “what the costumer ordered”…

Pipestem

Is this really news? I notice the Tesla M3 is listed as Q2 2017, which makes this slide look very old.

Although the range is competitive, the HP rating is far below and I have trouble seeing how this Leaf (and I am a current happy leaf owner), or the Bolt, is competitive with the M3, except for availability and a greater stock of tax credits may be Nissan’s ace in the hole.

Nonetheless, I look forward to a healthy stock of 2 and 3 year lease returns on the used market just when my leaf needs replacing.

Tyler

It’s competitive with the model 3 because a base model Leaf still has heated seats and steering wheel. Tesla charges $3500 for that. By the time the model 3 is spec’d the way I’d order it is a $55,000 car. If I were going to spend that, I’d buy a used model S with a larger battery and auto pilot.
You should be able to get a top trim leaf for about $40,000.

Pipestem

For the 2018, Nissan has removed some of those nice standard features. On the Leaf S, Heated seats are in the all weather package for another $450 and the charge package is another $1590. The SV still charges another $900 for the weather package since it also has the hybrid heater. I guess they had to cut corners to keep the base prices near $30k. However, its advantage is still going to be price with the tax credit and availability. Either way, used is still the better buy of course. I think in a few years we are going to have a lot of great choices.

Tyler

Tesla still charges more for the base model and charges 5X as much for the all weather package. Where Nissan is still failing is in the air cooled battery and charging infrastructure.
Don’t get me wrong, Tesla is leaps and bounds ahead in a lot of areas, but a $32,000 car that does all the same things as a $40,000 car (and will probably still have a tax incentive on it. Where the $40,000 car won’t at this point.) Is going to be competitive still.