Should you go with a 48 amp or a 72 amp Charger for your next Tesla?

JUL 31 2016 BY MICHAEL BEINENSON 92

Tesla 48A vs 72 Charging

Tesla 48A vs 72 Charging

With the introduction of Model X and newly updated facia Model S, Tesla decided to change the charging options with a choice of 48 and 72 amp versions. Of course by adding the 72 amp version your car will charge faster but is it worth it? Turns out it depends.

Time for a charge (Note: I am not Canadian, just like Celsius better compared to Fahrenheit for my outside temperature)

Time for a charge (Note: I am not Canadian, just like Celsius better compared to Fahrenheit for my outside temperature)

After returning from a trip to Florida and skipping one Super Charger in Macon, Georgia (it is the least popular SC in our state) I arrived at only 4% of battery and decided to clock the difference between 48 amp standard version of the internal charger to the upgraded 72 amp version. To my surprise the time difference was actually significant. A total of 3 and half hours were saved by charging the vehicle with 72 amps.

Since majority of owners charge overnight, the time savings may not be worth it, but there are 3 distinct scenarios where it becomes handy:

*- While on the trip to Gettysburg, Pennsylvania we had to rely on destination charging at a hotel and one restaurant. By having 72A version, we were able to charger quicker compared to a 48A or the legacy 40A versions and continued our trip more expeditiously. If your charging travel strategy includes topping off (not overnight charging) using destination chargers the 72 amp upgrade could be a great time savings benefit.

*- If you find yourself traveling a lot during a day, for example on a long distance business trip and require a quick recharge upon returning to the office or home, it can improve your charge rates if no Super Chargers are available close by.

*- Where I think a 72 amp version is a must, is when you own a Performance Model with either Insane or Ludicrous mode. Driving in those modes even with moderate acceleration, depletes your battery on a more accelerated level. Part of the reason could be that the performance models open up a greater flow of electricity to the motor(s) so that max torque is available if you decided to use it.  However, if you drive in a more aggressive style and even engage ‘Max Battery’ option (why not, it is a ton of fun!), the battery does tend to drain faster. Therefore upon returning to the office or your home, the 72 amps deliver a much faster charge so you can continue to your next destination a significantly quicker.

Model S Concumption

Model S consumption on a recent trip

To experience the 72 amp charging you need 2 things: Order your car with the $1,500 option ($1,900 option after delivery) and order the High Power Wall Charger.

Currently the lowest priced version sells for $500. The charger is eligible for a 30% charging infrastructure credit (consult your tax advisor if you are eligible for the credit), so that will reduce your overall costs.

Now if only the $1,500 72 amp option could be part of that charging infrastructure credit (that would help, right)?

Categories: Charging, Tesla

Tags:

Leave a Reply

92 Comments on "Should you go with a 48 amp or a 72 amp Charger for your next Tesla?"

newest oldest most voted

So if my math is correct, 72-amp charging would be something on the order of 50 miles per hour. That borders on DC fast charging speeds for some cars.

That 72A charge is only ~0.8 miles per minute.

25 kW CCS charges a BMW i3 at approximately 2.1 miles per minute before taper. Supposedly!

50 kW CCS should be able to charge a Chevy Bolt 90 miles in 30 minutes, 3 miles per minute.

120 kW Supercharge charges a Model S 90 at approximately 5.3 miles per minute, if starting near empty.

Still quite a bit better than say 3 kW AC charging @ 0.3 miles per minute.

3 kW is closer to .16 miles/minute or 10 mph.

My Final year project is Electric vehicle with fast charging I want to make 72 amp rating dc fast charger but I am not be able to find circuit of this charger kindly give me any kind of solution for this…

Meh. Probably not worth the extra cost unless you do a lot of long distance driving close to your home (which seems nonsensical) and there are no superchargers.

Most Public L2 Chargers won’t give you 72 Amps . . . heck most won’t even give you 48 Amps so what is the point?

+1

This is not necessary, it’s Just another way for Tesla to get into your pockets.

Tesla is not “getting in your pocket” they are giving the buyer an option. Save the $1,500 if you want. We need to give Tesla credit they are pushing the industry to adopt new models which is ever so helpful for the future of EVs.

If someone drives a LOT all day, most days, or professionally drives, it could be very useful. Tesla destination chargers often support the higher power, and you never know what’s coming out in the future. I own a car with a 3.3kW onboard charger, I’d pay an extra $1,500 for 72 amp charging capability! 🙂

Having 3.3 KW myself I would pay $1000 for 6.6 KW.

Yep, fast L2 is very rare… And going forward a destination that is limited to 90 amps (without an expensive electrical upgrade) would rather install 6 X 15 amp than one 80amp.

In the last 3 years of model S ownership i don’t think I’ve ever “waited” for my car to charge at L2… If I am ever short I’d supercharge instead.

I look at it like purchasing reduced inconvenience. Under most circumstances you don’t need it. Then again, I have a Chademo adapter that has been used exactly twice.

At home, my Tesla will charge fine on my 15A Voltec so it doesn’t matter. But 80A EVSEs are starting to appear in the wild, so it might be worthwhile to upgrade. No HPWC at home for me, though.

I thing anywhere in Canada, since many Level 2 charging stations are Sun Country Highway EVSE’s, and they are also in the USA, many are 60 amps, and quite a few are 80 amps or 100 amps. Essentially ClipperCreek units, they are pretty solid performers!

Indeed. We have found it v. handy to have 80A charging capacity. Three times or so a year it is quite handy. Our home is a 60A circuit and we can def. use the increased charging rate there too. I have a long commute and then we do a full charge to go somewhere.

At only $500 or $550, these things would be even more of a bargain if Tesla would release a cable with a j1772 connector.

The latest models apparently are 277 volt compatible, and further, recognize whether the car is or not (S, or X; or not) – so there would be no harm even if a j1772 connector non-tesla was plugged in.

But even at 240, the thing would outsell every other large amperage wallbox in the states.

Seriously Brian – you could put one in really cheap. Want some free help?

Eventually you might desire 2 wallboxes anyway. And if the Voltec thing eventually dies, you’ll have to get something else anyway, even if its a $379 Clipper Creek identical replacement.

I’m set up, as you’ve seen, for two Tesla ‘S’s or X’s in my garage. But they’ll be utilized for something else.

Trouble is, Bill, my EVSE is on a 20A circuit. If I install anything larger, I will have to run a new circuit from the breaker box. For that work, yes, I would like some help.

As you know, my typical driving is less than 30 miles per day, until I decide to drive 250+ miles… So I really don’t need anything faster than 15A at home anyway. A different car wouldn’t change that. Only a job in a different city would.

I really don’t know what my next car will be. The Tesla is a dream, but the Bolt is significantly more practical (and likely more reliable too). And then there is the as-of-yet unannounced Leaf 2. Not to mention upgraded eGolfs and Focus EVs. The future will be full of choices by the time I actually need a new car.

Great product for those who already have the EVSEs. But if we are talking about starting fresh, is this still competitive with just buying a high-power J1772 to start with?

If you want a wall mounted charge station capable of 80 amps, there is nothing as low cost as the Tesla HPWC “Wall Connector” plus our conversion to J1772.

We call it “J-Wall”

We can also make the unit 40 amp or less J1772 capable. Cable any length.

Does either option have a greater negative effects on the battery?

Both are so slow that they have no negative effect what so ever on the battery.

When you need to charge at 100% for long trips, you can use the faster 72 A charging to reduce the amount of time you spend at 100%–topping off only at the last possible moment. This is what I use it for. With slower chargers you are more likely to leave at less than 100% or charge to maximum far in advance, which hurts the battery.

That is your charging behaviour and has nothing to do with the charging speed.

One could easily argue the other way around then saying that at a higher charging speed it’s more likely to charge it at night and then have it at 100% for a longer time than when charging with a slower charger.

But the point is still the same, both charging speeds are so low that they have no negative impact on the battery.

Current is not really interesting when it’s the power you’re after. Or in other words why not write it in (kilo)Watt instead of Ampere.

Because current is what feeding circuits are based on regardless of the voltage.

Exactly!
All low voltage electrical installation overload tripping is base on current, because that what create heat and fire.

But, the earlier cooment was correct: A 200 volt wall box at 48 amps is 9600 watts, and at 277 its 13296 watts.

That is of course why public chargers around here charge the car (any ev with a standardized connector) a bit more slowly than I can do myself when at home.

Knowing the current is important for safety, but it’s the power that charges the car.

If I want to know how fast someone could fill up a petrol car I would prefer not to get a number of the petrol flow through the hose in meter per seconds but in liters per second (or other time unit).

72 amps at 110 volt is a lot slower charging than 48 amps at 400 volt.

Exactly my thought!

Remember that this is talking about input current from the wall, not current into the battery. The power then depends on your input voltage, typically 240V or possibly 208V at a commercial/industrial location. Using current means that only one value is needed to discuss the OBC as in this case. This isn’t an off board charge station we are talking about. Current is the appropriate unit to be using not power.

you are correct in that power transfer is what counts, but in a residence, you are limited to a fixed 240v. so the only available variable is current.

The voltage is never fixed in any residency connected to the grid. But that is another matter which is for grid operators to try to keep as close as possible to a chosen number.

The real point is that a residency can have everything from 100 volt to 400 volt. Even if the standard in almost all countries over one phase is somewhere between 220 and 240 volts.

So can I charge the car with 72A at 400V? That is about 29 kW.
120 is still the standard in the US as far as I know. So is it rather limited at 72A at 120V, which would result in about 8,6 kW.

22 kW, not 29. My bad.. 🙂

“120 is still the standard in the US as far as I know. So is it rather limited at 72A at 120V, which would result in about 8,6 kW.”

240V is very popular in the US too. 120V/240V are both standard or 208V in the commercial setting.

400V is rare.

Most 120V are lower than 20A. So it is pointless to talk about it. Typically, it is either 240V or 208V for chargers in the public.

“400 is rare”

Yeah, 480 in the states, and 600 in Canada.

That’s why the Tesla HPWC (wallbox), can be directly connected to a 277 volt circuit, (and charge a tesla at that rate).

As far as Canadian Supercharger installations, I asked whether 347 to 277 volt buck transformers were installed in the Corral, but I was told nope, just a full size (500 kva or whatever) 600 – 480 volt 2 coil (or more specifically 6 coil) dry transformer.
220/380 volt (and at 50 Hz) equipment in the states is generally made totally for the Export Market, and any European stuff in use (Medical equipment, etc) usually has a 480/380 volt autotransformer in the circuit feeding it. Has to be arranged for 60 hz operation obviously.

Which no utility would knowingly allow you to do (unless you are in an old 2-wire 120 volt commercial building), or ‘made’ the 72 amps @ 120 volts yourself.

Many cars, like Tesla, are amperage limited at 100-120 volts.

20 amps max – Older Tesla Model S / RAV4 EV / Mercedes B-Class ED

24 amps max – Newer Model S / Model X – 24

I’ve never tried it with the Roadster, but that very expensive TSL-01 to J1772 converter (which I had to use) had a rating of 120-250 volts at 70 amps. If you used the 120 volt cord that came with the car without an EVSE, the car would default to 12 or 15 amps in North America, or on 240 volts @ 16 amps ‘across the pond’, although the software load in the car may have been different.

If I get bored, I’ll plug in a Roadster and see if it will pull 70 amps at 120 volts.

my house is wired to 2 phase 120v. that is pretty typical residential wiring in the U.S. that means the most that i can get at my house is 3-wire 240v.

‘2 phase’ is sloppy terminology – see below. A definition of Polyphase is continuous power flow. Your house doesn’t have that since the juice dies 120 times per second. 2 Legs would be more appropriate, but then, the 2 legs are really only one.

For you Europeans, this is all part of the very minor series-stringing we do here.

As far as the utilities are concerned, all conductor sizing is based on 240 volt pressure.

you are technically correct, i was sloppy in my use of the term “2 phase”, but i’m not sure from where you are getting your definition of “single phase”. once the voltage enters the house, it is split into two 120 volt phases, so at that point it is by definition not a “single alternating voltage”.

Its because it confuses the Europeans reading this. Multiple phases (Polyphase) implies power from a separate source displaced in time from each other; most commonly these days 120 degrees from each other (in the most modern systems in North America, and Europe). True 2-phase systems were displaced 90 degrees (or 270 degrees, if you want to look at it backwards). The 2 legs only appear different when compared to the ‘Imbalance’ or ‘Neutral’ conductor, which is also used as an ‘earthing’ conductor on the service itself. Unlike British installations, ALL the service wires in the states are current-carrying, but do not enter into pressure drop calculations since it is assumed the imbalance is minor, unless connected to 120/208 ‘Single-Phase’ systems (here, the opposite is true – this is really a polyphase connection – a 3 phase motor can be made to run off this with merely 2 transformers) – called that since they are used the way a 120/240 true single phase system is in your house, and then, the ‘impossible to get rid of’ imbalance is corrected by the time other loads are added to the serving transformer. I’ll elaborate if there is any interest, but the only place… Read more »

For my $$ I want to be able to take maximum advantage of every plug wherever located. To that end it is a easy choice. I’d much rather opt. For maximum charging capability over performance options such as ludicrous etc.

You want to have the 22kW 3 phase charger ofcourse. Europe will get that and possibly a 50kW compatible CCS plug that also supports Supercharging (same plug with a notch in the Mennekes Type 2)

The updated Model S gets only a 11kW charger for Europe. You can pay extra for a 16.5 kW one.
Apparently, high-kW AC charging is dying. There is no point to waste money on expensive onboard AC chargers when you already have DC charging. Also, it makes no sense to put money into AC charging infrastructure, it has already reached it’s limits and it won’t handle the upcoming bigger EV batteries.

1) The onboard charger required isn’t that expensive. How else did Renault provide a 43 kW onboard charger as standard equipment in the cheap ZOE? 2) I don’t know in the USA, but in Europe with 400V TN networks it is a LOT cheaper to provide 43 kW AC (3-phase 400V “straight off the grid”) than it is to deploy even the just marginally faster 50 kW DC chargers. 3) With the advent of wireless charging and self-driving cars the onboard charger becomes much more important. There’s no way to supply DC wirelessly. I reckon we’d like the cars to be able to drive to a charger and replenish themselves while we shop or eat. A plug in a parking space can accomplish that, but it’s difficult to ensure good utilization because the time you are connected is related to how long your errand takes – not how much you need to charge. Plugs make it much more difficult to automate the process, but wireless allows self-driving cars to go recharge easily. (Of course you could hire a guy to plug and unplug cars, but that’s probably quite expensive in comparison.) As a LEAF owner I’ve often thought the ZOE… Read more »

The Zoe has no ‘on-board charger’. It uses its controller in reverse, hence all its early ‘rapid’ charging issues, now more or less resolved, I gather.

The ZOE costs almost as much as the Model 3 will cost. It has a relatively large battery and no DC charging. Of course, will it have a big on-board AC charger to compensate for the missing DC.
The fact that both Tesla and BMW have put smaller AC chargers in the updated Model S and i3 for both USA and Europe speaks enough for the future of AC charging…

Check average electricity rates in Europe (Britain is a slight exception – more on that below) before saying how much ‘easier’ it is to charge a car in Europe.

If they pay $8 to $10 per US Gallon for petrol, then ANY electric rate is going to be cheaper.

I understand that most European Countries use the ‘Demand Contracted For’ construct (as Seth hints to below when considering changing the size of his service to his home).

In the US, a ‘Measured Demand’ is much more commonplace for commercial customers, and its only the larger ones that have a “Demand Contracted For” construct.

That said, a ‘high voltage’ 277Y/480 ‘Kiosk’ providing 3 ‘destination’ 80 amp wall boxes using a simple 100 amp 480 volt electric service is easily doable – provided you can find someone to pay the electric bill.

All Tesla S’s and X’s can charge at 277 volts apparently.

Welcome to the EU then 🙂 As commented, the 3 phase 400 Volt network is standard here. If you find a public charge spot it has at a minimum a 230/16A Mennekes, but most will be 3 phase/16A which is good for 11kW charging. Find a public charging spot that supports 32A is a chore though. In the Netherlands anything above a 25A grid connection is 4 times as expensive in upkeep. Hence almost none of the public charging companies employ the 32A/22kW points, with the exception of individuals that have a vested interest or a office with a beefy grid connection. The Zoe does have it easy, since you can basically charge almost anywhere in NL at 11kW, which means the car is full in just 2 hours. The Tesla Model S owners have this flexibility too. In just 2 hours of a visit you have a 100km of range added. The US powergrid with 2 phase and a relatively low voltage is weird. The sheer amount of copper the US is consuming just to push the electrons through the wire to consume the same power is staggering. I’ve always been baffled by this. It’s hard to change, but… Read more »

Nope…. Distribution in North America is at 240 volts, as far as the utility (and wire sizing) is concerned.

Great Britain uses a variant of this at times, besides the standard STAR system- I’m not getting into detail here since it opens a can of worms with the self-appointed big experts – in residential only areas.

Almost all wiring outside the house is aluminum, and not much of it either. (Large commercial and Industrial are substantially copper, but during times of high copper prices even those areas resort to primarily aluminum.

If then North American system ever changes, since ev’s are such a small part of electric use, it will be something other than EV’s to do it.

“2 phase and relatively low voltage is wierd”.

The low voltage is safe, and distribution is substantially 240 volts.

Since a definition of Polyphase power is continuous power flow, the 180 degree phase angle fo the ‘2 phase’ is, by definition – single phase.

Legitimate 2 phase systems have a 90 degree phase angle with continuous power flow.

The minomered ‘2-phase’, which even some Americans are guilty of using is there for not, and is truly single phase. Some Brits call this ‘Split Phase’ which is what a similar system in Britain is called. In America, it only refers to a Resistance Starting technique for small (under 1 kw) motors.

It is truly single phase since the power flow goes to zero 120 times per second, unless aided by a low power factor.

There are now ground-fault devices here, and RCD’s in Europe (Residual current detectors (?)), but historically, I would have assumed many more Europeans electrocuted themselves compared to North America.

Supposedly in britain, a tool-transformer is used to provide 60 volts to ground (120 volts for the tool) power for portable construction equipment – to help keep people alive.

Seth said, “…The sheer amount of copper the US is consuming just to push the electrons through the wire to consume the same power is staggering. I’ve always been baffled by this.”

I’ll agree you are baffled.

Outside the home, and partially inside, the large wiring is aluminum., and the distribuiton is at 240, not 120 – the 120 volt loads in the home are series-strung, whether the homeowner realizes it or not.

The cost of this is several hundred dollars at best, no more.

OUTSIDE, in ‘domestic’ areas, the feed to the neighborhood is done with ONE extra wire.

Only 1 wire that needs to be:

A). Protected against Lightning
B). Protected against overcurrent.
c). Insulated from ‘Earth’, either aerially or in the ground.
D). Switched.
C). Power-factor corrected.

So that stuff tends to be 1/3 the cost. Of course, Britain, in all residential neighborhoods, occasionally also uses this system, – but they don’t tell anyone they’re doing it – besides the standard STAR system, mainly because the costs approach 1/3 of the way you guys do it.

Also, small single phase distribution transformers are aproximately 70% (OR less) of the cost of an equivalently sized 3 phase transfomer (or, what it commonly done here – 3 small single phase transformers arranged as a 3 phase bank).

Therefore, the unadvertised British Variant is obviously the lowest cost distribution system in the world since it is the best of both worlds. But that’s another subject since it rouses the self appointed big experts.

Seth, you bring up interesting facts about your home, I’m gleaning, in The Netherlands? You currently have a 35 amp 230 volt single-phase service to your home? You are correct that THAT would be considered very small in the US. 1). Do you have an electric car or plugin hybrid? If so, can you change the rate at which it charges? (Other than Teslas, which have always had ‘dial – a – current’ selection, most EV’s for sale in the states do not allow for any choice in current consumption when plugged into 240 volts). A VOLT (whether Chevrolet, Vauxhill, or Holden – various General Motors subsidiary nameplates) would charge at conceivably 15 amperes if the incoming voltage was low – this is almost HALF the capacity for your whole house. So my question is, do the EV’s for sale by you have the ability to throtle-down the amount of current they draw? If so, to what? You mentioned that if you UPGRADE from 35 amps to 3×25 that you will be charged FOUR TIMES THE UPKEEP. What specifically is that charge – please answer in Euros or $US dollars. Since 35 @ 240 single phase would be considered very… Read more »

I just remembered talking to an Ausie owner of a Holden Volt that the ‘connection cord’ standard with the vehicle allowed a normal ‘6 amps’ or enhanced ’10 amps’ charging rate.

So, I guess to answer my own question, an Ampera charging at 6 amps wouldn’t tax your installation excessively

#3. 72 amp version is a must, is when you own a Performance Model with either Insane or Ludicrous mode.

For a 90D to P90DL is $30,000 upgrade, I really don’t think the buyer will care about pocket change $1500 High Amperage charge.

For charging away from home, there are a lot more Chademo than high amperage L2. The Chademo is cheaper.

But there is probably now more HPWC at destinations then there are Chademo. Most of these are hotels and you are sleeping there.

I’ve done 23k miles in my 70D and I don’t think there has been a reason to have a 72A charger. Done destinations several times but always overnight (or long enough).

For home use, there is always demand charges and while I am in the .01% that has them, that number should rise. It just makes sense. A 72A peak charge would be about $90 for that month. And the only time you would need or want to go that fast would be during the day – so likely peak. I’ve never charged during peak anyway – even at my lowly 40A.

First, let me say that if money is no object, sure have all the charging capability that’s available. My Tesla Model S-70D which has been coast-to-coast with 40,000 miles in about one year, and I have yet to have needed 72 or 80 amp AC charging. I carry a host of seldom used adapters so that I never find myself stranded anywhere. I also carry the Tesla CHAdeMO adaptor, as well as our company’s JLong – J1772 extension cable. With these tools and a little bit of thinking, driving a very capable EV like a Tesla is easy. http://www.amazon.com/dp/B01BE8WIBU http://shop.quickchargepower.com/JLONG-40-Amp-J1772-extension-cable-JL40A.htm But, you’ll note, that I didn’t suggest spending thousands of dollars for 80 or 72 and charging capability. One additional piece of hardware that I may carry in the future is a CHAdeMO extension cable, and perhaps even a Supercharger extension cable. There are just too many turds who block the spaces. The sad fact is that virtually all public J1772 charging Is 30 amps, because that’s what the standard is worldwide. In the US, Tesla has lobbied successfully for up to 80 amps, but there are very very few public J1772 stations that have more than 30 amps available.… Read more »

In that case you wont like the way most of the new ChargePoints (the ones with the video display) are connected in my area.

They have a limiting function to limit the total draw to 30 amps (it may be possible to raise this to 32, but I have no info), so that , when plugging in TWO charge cords, you’ll only get 15 amps per cord anyway, and that at a wimpy 200 volts tops.

They initially advertised the feature as being for single units that were to be converted to dual units – and run on only a single small circuit, but apparently many owners use the feature to minimize electric usage since they pay the electric bill.

The dual stations on one 40 amp circuit isn’t a terrible idea, but of course, I couldn’t pull 30 amps out of each plug.

But, if there are TWO of these stations, then I could use one plug from each. Remember, with JLong, the other station doesn’t need to be immediately nearby.

If Tesla production ramp up goes as per schedule owners of faster charging rate may find a significant advantage over others.

You should also mention that if you charge your Model S or X at home with the mobile connector plugged into a nema 14-50 outlet as most people do, then having the 72 amp charger onboard offers no benefit. Using the mobile connector, the car is only going to pull 40 amps regardless of whether you have the 48 amp or 72 amp charger. It also doesn’t matter at supercharger stations. The only time the 72 amp charger will charge faster is when you are plugged into a Tesla HPWC that is connected to a 90 amp breaker and using sufficient guage wiring. Alot of HPWC are only connected to a 50 amp breaker to output 40 amps even some at Tesla service centers. They are not all set up to charge at 72 amps.

@ken
I agree with your assesment. Even though establishments have a HPWC doesn’t mean it is wired with heavy guage enough wire to handle 80 amps. So I’m not sure getting the high power option is worth it.

Not true. Most of Canada is dotted with Sun Country units with 60+A charge rates. Has def. been worth it for us.

In the article I wrote last week http://insideevs.com/electricity-beats-gasoline-comes-dinghies/ Jay decided to publish a couple pictures of my Model X at a destination charger. I have already been burned, after just one month, in finding a charger where I could only charge at 48 of 80 amps and sat there for that much longer. That place was in north central PA and it is a veritable charging desert. Tesla paid for the charger at Alpine Loft that I used. The truly annoying part here is, recall that Tesla had the higher charging option HIDDEN- you had to know the secret to ASK for the higher charging…and then they have the nerve to charge you a premium if you buy it later. There was some discussion as to WHY Tesla would have hidden it and some postulated that maybe they preferred you to charge at a slower rate to preserve the battery. Since I knew that I would probably never upgrade home charging from that I used for my Volts, I opted to stick with 48 amps. I am not sure yet if I regret it, as I don’t know how many more times this time saver will come in handy… …but… Read more »

I should also point this out, in concurrence with a counter argument. The north central PA location I journeyed to was a premier bike trail Pine Creek Valley rail trail. The trip there and back from my home on Lake Ontario is a bit beyond the X’s range, so I had looked for other locations to charge. The week before my previously mentioned charging opportunity, I charged up at a restaurant that had a Tesla charger- that maxed out at 40 amps. And other chargers that I could have used, for the most part, also had this limitation. So there is validity to saving some $$ on the upgrade as indeed, 80 amp charging may really just not be that opportune anyway.

It’s right there on the configuration page when you build the car.

If it is there now, so be it. As stated, when I ordered mine IT WAS NOT THERE!

http://insideevs.com/optional-72-amp-charger-available-tesla-model-x/

From the article:

Tesla’s statement:

“We are still recommending the 48-amp AC charger so we hid the High Amperage Charger Upgrade option.”

Here’s the hidden screen, which can be accessed by typing charger in while in the Model X Design Studio:

in Europe most of public charging point are 3 phase 400V , the power available is 22kw so any charger less than that is wasting time by not utilizing the full potential of the charging point , the bigger is the charger the faster you charge.

Rightly or Wrongly, most of the wallboxes installed in NY State are currently 6 kw. A few of the ‘newest’ are 3 kw essentially, – the owner is responsible for the electric bill and didn’t want to pay too much.

So for these locations, its true it doesn’t matter.

I feel GM has picked a sweet spot with the BOLT. 32 amps is all that will be publically available for some time at most locations.

I’m only familiar with ONE location that is 70 amps in the States. Im sure there are more but I haven’t seen it.

Plenty of 80’s in southern Ontario, Canada- but there is also a 6 kw (30 amp @ 200 volt) SunCountryHighway at the Ft. Erie historical museum, and TEN (supposedly the Canadian Record) 4.8 kw (on an optimistic 200 – some of the distant ones are 191 volts) SunCountryHighway units (24 amps), at Harry Howell Arena in Hamilton, Ont.

Why in the world does anyone need 72 amps of charging unless you’re running a taxi service? Seriously. No one really needs more than a basic 30 amp charger if they’re charging at night, for any EV, unless you have a 250 mile commute each day or the aforementioned taxi service. Not to mention the 400-amp commercial panel you’ll likely need to push such a ridiculous amount of kW.

This puts unnecessary strain on the grid and takes away some of the environmental benefits EV’s can provide.

Yeah, that is a good point. 72 Amp is not going to be appreciated by the utility.

I suspect that more utilities will charge ‘demand charges’ for heavy draws like that such that people who get the 72 Amp option might find that they won’t even use it anyway because it will make their utility bill much higher.

And I think a lot of houses are going to have trouble adding an 80 Amp draw anyway.

I just put it behind a 60A breaker and only use 48A continuous at home when I want to be fast or dial it down further to charge over night

If you charge off peak, your utility won’t have a problem with 72A charging. That’s less than 2 electric stoves, or 3 electric dryers. It’s not like you’d be pulling 72kW.

And it would be great if everyone had demand charges, because the cost of charging PEVs would be reduced.

On a home service? Maybe not, but on a COMMERCIAL bread and breakfast establishment, they get to charge DEMAND CHARGES, and those are APPRECIATED by the utility as long as the customer isn’t a deadbeat.

That’s why some of the “NEW” chargepoing wallboxes in my area top out at 15 amps – (200volts@15 amps is 3 kw) since the cheapskate owners don’t want the electric bill to be too high.

California has areasmwith 6 hour super off peak windows.
Also, at level 2 charging power, higher power charging is more efficient.
Also, the faster you charge, the sooner the charger is available ofr others to use.
Money no object, get the 72A charger, otherwise it’s a matter of priorities.

Read my comment above! I had opportunity to use a ‘destination’ charger (this was NOT my destination)…and I had to wait for it to charge…with nothing to do…in the middle of nowhere.

This destination charger was 150 miles from my house, in the middle of a charging desert. I did not want to stay overnight, and my dog would have been VERY displeased if I had.

If you are staying overnight somewhere, this is probably not an issue. But if this is a stop along a journey during your day, wasted time is the problem.

Good points.

As a humble service electrician, I recommend a large enough (minimum 200 amp rated) electrical panel with plenty of unused breaker spaces to utilize after you burn up breakers and panel bussing.

“What’s that burned plastic smell?”

Wow, that’s a lot. My home is connected with just a single phase at 35A. I’ll be upgrading somewhere in the future though to 3 phase 25A.

That still would come out to a maximum of 75A across the 3 phases, in contrast to a single 200A circuit. Wowsers, is copper that cheap in the US?

Also, once every 2 years tighten all the conenctions, as loose connections (through heat cycling) are the number 1 reason for breaker box fires.

If it caught fire and 1 wire is burnt, that contact was loose. It’s easy to check if ypu have a FLIR, those are 250$ iPhone options.

I know 200 amps must seem like alot to a European, but other than the very smallest homes or retrofits, most homes are built with 200 amp electric services in the States since the equipment – and wiring – is dirt cheap or cheaper.. I say that since most states now MANDATE underground residential developments and the service connection paid for by the homeowner is usually only a few meters of wire, and its aluminum at that. The overcurrent distribution panels are also dirt cheap these days (other than the recent controversy over mandated ground-fault/arc-fault breakers – which drives up the cost and increases nuisance trips). Alot of ‘melted panelboards’ are of certain extra junky brands: Zinsco, Challenger, and some of the aluminum Siemens panels have been real jokes. EVEN what is now Groupe Schneider’s “Square-D” QO line (self-appointed by them as “THE WORLD’S FINEST !!!) tend to overheat, and not stay in their friction-fit jaws, and I’ve also had a 100 amp ‘neutral bar’s weld spit with 40 amps going through it. The extra cheap, essentially similar HOMELINE residential product is reasonably substantial, especially since they cost essentially nothing. The Siemens ‘Loadcenter’ Aluminum offerings must surprise Europeans, in that… Read more »

All the Tesla Model S taxi’s Hog all the supercharger Stalls, since free fuel (free for the Taxi driver, that is) puts more money in the driver’s pocket!

I think the 72amp charging will be more desirable with the Model 3, as the consumer will be younger and more active, and driving more. Unlike the mostly older S and X crowd that’s in by 10pm, the younger demographic would be hitting the road after 10pm(parties, movies, bars, etc) and needing the car charged after work and before going out.

There are four Super Chargers in Washington State, all are on Interstate Freeways. North Central Washington (not on an Interstate)has the best paddle/water/sky/trail/climbing sports spots as well as the best wineries and mountain vistas so if we drive our Model S there we are very happy to have the “twin charger” option on our 2013 vehicle. We usually can gain 45 ~ 50 miles of range for hour of charge. haL2 charging will remain a relevant charge for the next five to eight years.

It is way better to speak in KW because amps doesn’t mean anything if you don’t have the voltage and you actually also need the number of phases. So that’s a lot of error possibilities when using amps to express a power. Conclusion always KW not amps.

Well, the Euro equivalent of these would be 16 and 24 amp chargers – provided Mennekes connectors are used.

We Americans think we’re only chatting with other Americans or Canadians.

But, you are correct of course. But then we fall in the habit that you do, namely thinking that if 11, or 16,5 kw is easier, 1500 kw must be almost as easy.

I would save the money and pay for a Chademo adapter and CCS adapter instead.

Agree. I have the 80 amp option on my Model S. In over a year of ownership, I have used it exactly 1 time. You are better off spending 1/3 of that upgrade and getting a Chademo adapter that gives you more charging options when you travel, than rolling the dice on finding an HPWC or L2 above 40/48 amps.

I didn’t see any discussion of solar. My relatives in Australia have a 7kw solar system (common and relatively cheap in oz) and a BEV (very rare and relatively expensive). They are forever hustling to get a full charge through daylight hours. For that purpose, faster charging would be great. Even people doing standard office hours could potentially charge during long summer days, especially with a west facing string of panels.