Rumored Audi Q8 E-Tron to Get 435 Miles of Electric Range?

JAN 27 2014 BY ERIC LOVEDAY 28

According to German language site Auto Bild, Audi is reportedly working on a pure electric Q8 e-tron quattro.

Elon Musk Says Bring It On Audi

Elon Musk Says Bring It On Audi

As the report states, the Q8 e-tron could launch in either 2016 or 2017.

The Q8 is expected to be more of a tall-ish wagon than an SUV.  Its price tag is predicted to be north of $130,000.

All this intel seems plausible to us, but then we come to the part of the report where Auto Bild says the Q8 e-tron will have 435 miles of electric range.  (Editor’s Note:  Assuming this 435 miles is a European/NEDC based rating, a US equivalent on the EPA scale would be about 290 miles)

Nonsense, we say.

First, few need that amount of range.  Second, there’s no production vehicle that will launch in either 2016 or 2017 that will have that sort of range.  Third, it’s an Audi – known more for extended range products, not all electrics.

The Auto Bild report goes on to mention that the Q8 would be a Tesla Model X competitor, which only serves to add even reason to think that the report might be a bit off track.

Source: AutoBild

Categories: Audi

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28 Comments on "Rumored Audi Q8 E-Tron to Get 435 Miles of Electric Range?"

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The Auto-Bild article I found mentions “mit 435 PS (Benzin)” for the power output. I see nothing about range.

700km range, 435 miles.

290 miles on the EPA cycle is about right for the time frame though – balancing battery cost, battery capability available at that time, and range needed by consumers.

Stephen, this is the quoted text (in German and English) from Autobild:

English:

“You should get up to 700 kilometers on a single charge current. Thus, the Bayern want to drive especially over Tesla (USA) in the parade, whose utility “Model X” (about 550 km range) starts as early as 2015.”

German:

“Sie soll mit einer Stromladung bis zu 700 Kilometer weit kommen. Damit wollen die Bayern vor allem Senkrechtstarter Tesla (USA) in die Parade fahren, dessen Offroader „Model X“ (etwa 550 km Reichweite) bereits 2015 startet.”

Look for the battery supply chain. If a company doesn’t and won’t foresee-ably have access to the capacity (internal or outsourced) to manufacture X planned units per year times Y megajoules of cells per year, then they probably aren’t going to offer a car with Y range at X volume.

I will repeat a post I have made in the Golf PHEV thread: ‘‘Japanese giant, Panasonic, supplies the battery system. Weighing 318kg, the 264 lithium-ion cells sit beneath the boot floor and give the e-Golf 24.2kWh of energy.’ http://www.motoring.com.au/reviews/2013/small-passenger/volkswagen/golf/volkswagen-e-golf-and-golf-plug-in-hybrid-2013-first-drive-39906 Now that is very interesting, as Panasonic is the company Tesla buys its batteries from. It is pretty difficult to pin down the exact weight of the battery pack for the Tesla S 85kwh model, but it seems to be around 600kg: http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/2013-tesla-model-s-test-review So for the Tesla, the Panasonic battery at the pack level comes in at around 140Wh/kg using 18650 cells. VW don’t want to wire those together, so use the prismatic version and get around 76Wh/kg 18650 commodity batteries tend to be cutting edge for technology, hence the higher energy density, whilst the VWs remain at about Leaf levels for energy density. It gets really interesting when you consider that VW now say the mighty Audi R8 E-tron is now back on the table: ‘According to AutoCar, what caused Audi to renew the Audi R8 e-tron is new lithium-ion battery technology. Where the original R8 e-tron had a range of 215 km (134 miles) from a 42.4 kilowatt-hour battery… Read more »

The production Model S and soon-to-be production Model X use the old 3.3Ah 18650 cells (as I recall, and there are occasionally conflicting stories on this).

Panasonic already has 4.1Ah 18650s. It is the assumption that, for the presumed Model E to get over 200 miles of range at the target MSRP after incentives, then Tesla is already using those for their next-gen designs.

So if Tesla swapped those into the next revision of the S/X platform, those should certainly come close, if not beat, the Q8 claims.

All that VW need to do is use a prismatic version of the 3.3Wh cells to make a Golf with around 150 miles on the EPA possible.
Since 18650 cells tend to be in the vanguard of production engineering, it makes sense that Tesla will by then have moved on to the 4.1Ah cells.

They don’t specify the weight of the Q8 batteries, so it is not possible to really get to grips with the claimed ranges, although ever bigger packs at a fixed energy density of course runs into diminishing returns.

My guess is that for this pricey model they simply plan on a bigger, heavier pack than the Tesla S.

“Panasonic already has 4.1Ah 18650s”

Source please? They’ve been promised for a while but haven’t shown up.

Yep, source would be nice. I also checked this in September 2013 and then there was no sources for 4 Ah EV capable production batteries.

Gotta love Free enterprise! : )

Audi…hahaha… Soon they will have a car that flies to the moon and back on your lunch break. How about producing any of them? Nooo… never going to happen.

It’s kind of impressive that they manage to be all talk and absolutely no action at all.

They have only just got the electric and PHEV drive capable platforms that they deem necessary for them beyond the prototype level and in production.

The investment Audi and the VW group is making, not least in capacity in the US which is their next target now they have established a very significant presence in China, is absolutely massive.

They are now ready to pull the trigger on their PHEVs and BEVs, and if they are to make use of the billions they have committed, that is just what they will do.

+1

I’ll believe that when I see it… Audi is a joke so far and if they say 2016-2017 for this 700 km vehicle the truth is probably closer to 2025 if ever.

What investment in EV capacity has Audi done in the US?

As I have just noted: ‘The investment Audi and the VW group is making, not least in capacity in the US which is their next target now they have established a very significant presence in China, is absolutely massive.’ There is no specific EV investment as yet for the US. However developing the EV capable platform which Audi have taken the lead on, one of four developed by the VW group, will have taken in the region of a billion dollars. They have not done that for fun, and capacity is now being built and opened in North America at a cost of several billion: ‘German carmaker Volkswagen has said it will invest $7bn (£4bn) in North America over the next five years as it looks to boost its sales in the region. The firm will also launch a new sports utility vehicle (SUV) in the US – one of its biggest markets – in 2016. It also reiterated its goal of selling a million Volkswagens and Audis – its luxury brand – in the US by 2018.’ http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-25708528 Their new platforms mean that different drive trains can be produced at relatively low volume on the same production lines economically.… Read more »

I don’t see why people would be all that shocked if Audi produce this car. It is not going to be a mass produced vehicle selling thousands per month it will most likely an expensive Q8 trim. IMO the platform would most likely be shared with an electric Bentley (if they ever make it) and it would sell if they start to ban ICE vehicles from the centers of big European cities or if EU nations continue to put a really big tax premium on polluting company sports cars both of which are likely in the next 5-10 years.

It’d be interesting to know if VW and Porsche are sharing battery technology across the full range of cars (i.e. the batteries in the e-UP!, Panamara, 918, golf and any Audi’s will all be the same with each vehicle having more or less cells depending on performance requirements).

IMO if we could get the German manufacturers interested in electric vehicles things will really hot up, look at what they did to the solar industry.

You don’t see why people are shocked that Audi would produce this? Well, for starters, Audi has announced and cancelled like 5 different E-Tron cars.

They produced around that number of prototypes.
That is a very different matter to having firm production plans.
They did not even have the platform they wanted to use for mass EV production until recently.

How about they start with any EV production?

Nice to see Tesla Motors able to pressure others into creating competing products…

Competetive prototype… on paper… We have yet to see any actual plans of anything being remotely close to being a Tesla competetor…

Precisely what they were saying about VW electric cars.
Well, now the E-Up is in production and for sale in Europe, with the E-Golf also imminent.
Since Audi is part of the VW group it hardly seems likely that they will forget to come to the party, especially since they have spent billions buying the ticket.

Put me in the camps of:
1) Not real.
2) Why would you even want it? That would just be paying a huge amount of money for battery capacity that you would very rarely use.

With this aerodynamics, Autobahn range will be below 200 km.

Maybe, just maybe, Audi employ some engineers capable of calculating range for a given battery size and Cd rating.
Of course the range will be less at Autobahn speeds.
But 200 KILOMETRES?
I don’t think so.

Unless it is travelling at 130 mph or so.

This could or could not be a challenger to the Tesla but the real question is it a real idea or not. If it’s not real then it could be them trying to say face with Tesla such as you guys have a 300 mile EV well we have one to but it hasn’t reached production yet. Or ya we have it but we haven’t decided to put it into production. But if it turns out to be real it might make logical sense for them to have a completing EV to Tesla in that they are losing some business from their high end gas cars to Tesla so they would have to logically do something about it to teach the new kid on the block a lesson. As for the battery range I think this same company did have a video they had on inside EV’s showing the battery scientists working in their automotive labs with 50 to 100 testing stations for new battery ideas. With something like that and with them doing studies with hundreds computer simulations before they put a new battery idea into one of these 80 testing stations. After two or three years they should… Read more »

I do not know how much Tesla does in-house with cell design and how much they leave to their suppliers. I do know that the cells Tesla uses were developed in partnership with Panasonic. From what I have read, they are stripped-down versions of the commodity 18650s, where some safety features and other stuff is removed, leaving pretty much just cathode, anode, electrolyte and packaging.

As I mentioned above, Panasonic has had 4.1Ah versions for some time now. For Tesla to make the price/range/performance claims of the upcoming Model E, they would have to be using the higher-capacity cells. An S/X platform refresh in a few years with these cells could compete favorably with the proposed Q8.

“….The only catch out of all of this is it starting to look this will be priced as a $120,000 car which does give a extra for thousand in it’s battery budget for a 130 kilowatt battery pack vs Tesla’s 85 Kw battery pack in a $75,000 dollar car.”

So this is going to be a 130 kwh battery in the Audi? If so you’d think an EPA 430 miles would be realistic.

Hopefully they’ll put in a 6.6 kw charger for the american market. A 3.3 kw would have to run all the time.