It Seems Rivian R1T Truck Houses A 2170 Double Stack Battery Pack

NOV 26 2018 BY GEORGE BOWER 34

With an interesting twist on the cooling scheme …

That’s what it sounds like based on a previous Teslarati article:

Rivian’s battery module is made up of the same sized battery cells that Tesla uses in the Model 3, commonly referred to as 2170, but the physical configuration of the cells differs quite a bit. Though the module is significantly thicker than Tesla’s, with two cells stacked on top of each other, it’s more energy dense by volume and weight. Separating the two levels of cells is Rivian’s cooling systems.”

Hmm…sounds like Tesla’s Semi and Roadster battery packs.

Tesla hasn’t talked a lot about stacking batteries but it is an unmistakable conclusion based on the information we have on the Tesla semi truck. There’s no way to squeeze that many kWh’s into the semi without stacking them and it looks like Rivian is doing the same thing.

Here’s another interesting observation about the Rivian R1T made by Teslarati:

“Separating the two levels of cells is Rivian’s cooling systems.”

So it’s a double stack with cooling in between the two layers of 2170 battery cells. That’s nice but what kind of cooling system is it?

Back to Tesla’s semi truck design. We estimated what the semi pack would look like in an article here. In order for Tesla to squeeze 900 kWh’s of battery cells in the semi we estimated 6 layers of Model 3, 2170 cells!!

I wonder about the support structure Tesla would need to support such a stack of batteries. How do you do THAT? Surely something needs to support these multiple layers.

Wouldn’t it be nice if the supporting structure also doubled as a cooling system!

Perfect application for a flat cooling plate that also provides the structural element between the layers. There’s definitely some synergies here.

Here’s our conceptualization:

 

it’s more energy dense by volume and weight.”

Yes, that’s the other advantage of stacking batteries. Even using cells of the exact same energy density you end up with a more energy dense battery at the pack level. We already did an analysis of that (ref) and showed that a significant increase in energy density could be attained in the tesla semi battery.

The Rivian battery pack appears to be an intelligent design indeed!

We wouldn’t be surprised if Tesla has adopted a similar flat plate battery pack architecture in their semi truck as Rivian!!

That’s how good it is!

Categories: Rivian

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34 Comments on "It Seems Rivian R1T Truck Houses A 2170 Double Stack Battery Pack"

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Nozuka

Great to see that things are starting to move faster. Exciting years ahead

rey

I look forward to seeing all electric Pickups, even at jobsites

Doggydogworld

Good article, except the claim about Roadster having a double stack. That geometry doesn’t come close to working in a car that’s 45 inches high.

Pushmi-Pullyu

I think the jury is definitely still out on whether or not the next-gen Roadster has a double stacked battery pack. I’ve seen arguments on the Tesla Motors Club forum where both sides of the question argued adamantly. That includes arguments over whether those given rides in the prototype at the Semi Reveal were in a car with floorboards raised that high.

Robert Weekley

Except that if you missed it, the New Tesla Roadster Prototype has been confirmed as having TWO Tesla 100 kWh Packs, Stacked, by Tesla.

Doggydogworld

Source?

Chris O

I have always wondered about how Tesla intends to squeeze 200KWh in Roadster and make it a 2+2+decent luggage space. Even double stacking wouldn’t seem to cut it considering the small size of the vehicle.

Chris Stork

The only qualm I have is about the placement of the charge port. The front corners are more vulnerable in a collision. I wonder if they chose that corner with intent to buy into the Tesla Supercharger network?

eject

So what? The charging port is cheaper than the sensors and cameras you have in the bumper. If you have crashed the car in such a way that the charging port is damaged the car can’t be driven anyway.

carcus

What runs cooler, carries off heat quicker ?
1. Single stack using cooling tubes.
2. Double stack using cooling tubes + cooling plate?

Also,
If a cooling tube fails, does that mean the pack has failed?
If a cooling plate fails, does that mean the pack has failed?
Is any of this modular?

Bill Howland

Doesn’t look to me like this is a big deal either way. Pushing glycol through a pipe has been done for years now. The L2 charge rate is almost a trickle charge (18 hours) and the fast charger rate is – I think they said 0.6 C. (100 kw). So no real pushing the envelope anywhere here.

carcus
“The battery is designed for fast charging with charging rates of up to 160kW” — from the InsideEVs article. From what I’ve seen of the Tesla battery teardowns, it looks like the cooling system is buried in the modules/pack. so much so, that if there is a cooling system problem/failure — it appears that the whole battery system is kaput*. Or at least the module is — and then there is the problem of replacing a module with a matched module (?). This would become a bigger risk with an off road vehicle that is going to be subject to much more of a beating than a highway car. *that’s just from what I ‘think’ I’ve seen watching some of the video — really don’t know — that’s why I’m asking. //I’m aware that there’s nothing intrinsically special about a glycol cooling line — but I can think of other applications where when you get a failure and that cooling system is extensive and hard to/ R&R — then you sure don’t want it to fail. Kind of what I see as the achilles heel of long distance BEV’s , — they are packing such an expensive item that is… Read more »
Roy_H

Nobody has yet complained about a coolant leak inside a Tesla battery. Tesla uses what I would describe as a low efficiency cooling system because the heat has to flow through what appears to be rubber hose wall, but they go to a lot of trouble to make contact along the side of the cells. This adds a lot of bulk to the pack. The advantage is the heat from the center of the cell only has to go a short distance to the wall.

Rivian appears to have a metal plate with liquid coolant so there is no thick layer of rubber between the battery and coolant, but by cooling at the end of the cell, the heat from the center of the cell to the cooling surface is much longer than Tesla’s arrangement. I have to believe that Tesla goes to all that trouble because they believe it is very important to cool the cell wall.

Jason

Wouldn’t such a failure be covered by the 8yr battery warranty? At least for Tesla, they just drop the pack out and insert a new one.

Pablo

Hello everybody,presently I own a ram but this ev truck got my attention I want to by 2 of them for me and my wife she love truck

leafowner

How quickly do you think we will get a reservation count estimate?

TomArt

Do we know who their battery supplier(s) is/are? It would be interesting for them to get a proper (proprietary?) cell manufacturer when everyone from Panasonic to LG Chem are bursting at the seems with the need for more manufacturing capacity. And, from what I understand, all but Panasonic are making pouch or prismatic cells for automotive applications, not 18650s or 21700s.

Steven Loveday

I know for sure that they are using 2170s. We were told that they already had a long list of suppliers (not just specifically for batteries) contracted in order to alleviate as many issues as possible. Being that they are a startup, we all know that suppliers will be a big issue and will likely cause delays, etc. My understanding is that this is part of the reason they have held out so long and why they still have a few years to go, even though they have a production-ready vehicle and a factory. They didn’t divulge battery suppliers, but made it abundantly clear that they were all set with that, especially by the time of launch. We are going to interview RJ soon and I’m going to head over to the Plymouth location again soon. Hopefully, now that the cat’s out of the bag, we will be able to develop a relationship with them and get more information soon.

TomArt

Looking forward to it!

carcus

Is Rivian a Tesla partnership?

Steven Loveday

Nope

magama52

I hope that a Rivian/Tesla agreement to the Supercharger network could be worked out. Yes, they both are EV manufactures but the real competition is against the ICE OEM’s and force them to go EV. I think it will be less costly for Rivian. But I got a gut feeling they (Rivian) will be bought out by an ICE OEM at one point.

Benz

“We are going to interview RJ soon”

That will be interesting.

jamcl3

That German company which makes batteries for 18 wheel heavy EV trucks has brought out a line of cylindrical cells, I can’t recall their name at the moment. They claimed it enabled a big increase in energy density, which I still don’t understand but I don’t question it.

TomArt

That’s one of the reasons why Tesla uses cylindrical formats – it’s an excellent balance of energy density and cooling efficiency (that, and the 18650s used in the Roadster were relatively dirt cheap).

Robert Weekley

Not exactly “dirt cheap”, at that time, but getting better, over time!

Bill Howland

You’ll get your wish.

Jason

I rather buy a Bollinger EV truck, which IMO has a lot of character and looks like it was inspired by a Lego set.

TomArt

haha – I can see it now… put an array of scale cylindrical bumps on the roof, hood, and a row on the top rim of the bed! Make a bush guard on the front like those railing things that LEGO has always had, and that would be a lot of fun and amusement!

Joe Martin

I’m impressed that they made such a well thought out vehicle on their first attempt. I doubt I’ll buy one due to the price of admission, but I wish them success.

jim stack

a Double STACK has to be good. Jim StACk

Steven Loveday

@cesvilmal we don’t need a$$hole comments from people like you. Go find another website that allows such BS. There are many that may be okay with allowing your spewing. InsideEVs doesn’t need you here. Find another outlet. Have a good day sir! Man, people like this make us lose hope for humanity. Thank you to all the IEV commenters for remaining civil and reasonable, despite the usual in-fighting based on brand support. We appreciate you all. However, we won’t tolerate people like @cesvilmal.

Matt

So if its using a 2170 then its using a Panasonic/Tesla battery

Steven Loveday

They did not disclose battery suppliers.