Reuters Says Tesla Model S, X Are Often Flawed, Update: Tesla Responds

5 days ago by Steven Loveday 102

Tesla

Inside Tesla’s Fremont factory

According to Reuters, over 90 percent of Tesla Model S and X vehicles aren’t ready when they come off the assembly line.

The publication reports that most vehicles need to be fixed before heading out for delivery. Reuters extracted the information from former Tesla workers and other unconfirmed sources. The article mentions:

“The luxury cars regularly require fixes before they can leave the factory, according to the workers. Quality checks have routinely revealed defects in more than 90 percent of Model S and Model X vehicles inspected after assembly, these individuals said, citing figures from Tesla’s internal tracking system as recently as October. Some of these people told Reuters of seeing problems as far back as 2012.”

Tesla continues to claim that its customers are very happy overall. The automaker has received numerous awards for customer satisfaction, and although shares have slowly declined as of late, the company’s stock/market cap is in incredible shape nonetheless. A Tesla spokesperson told Business Insider:

Tesla Model 3

Tesla Model 3 production

“Our goal is to produce perfect cars for every customer. Therefore, we review every vehicle for even the smallest refinement.”

The number of labor hours needed to complete a vehicle has decreased 33% since early 2016.

Of the 250,000 Tesla vehicles ever produced, more than half were built in the past 18 months. Whereas before, it took three shifts with considerable overtime to produce our target annual production of 100,000 Model S and X vehicles, now it can be done with only two shifts and minimal overtime.”

The automaker explains that every vehicle is inspected in extensive detail after coming off the line. It is important that if there are any issues, these cars are tended to before moving on to the delivery stage.

So, are a few quick, manual fixes really a problem?

Tesla is a low volume automaker and is not working with the resources of legacy OEMs. Until the company secured some 500,000 orders for its Model 3, there was really no impending production hell to contend with. Sure, getting cars to customers on time should be a priority, and it’s something the automaker has struggled with, but people seemed (and still seem) willing to cut some slack and afford incredible patience. Tesla notes that it:

 “… has the highest customer satisfaction levels and the highest percentage of customers who say that their next car will be a Tesla in the entire global auto industry.”

Tesla

Tesla Model 3, LA Auto Show (Image Credit: Tom Moloughney/InsideEVs)

With monumental Model 3 production ahead, however, the automaker can’t possibly have time to be fixing every vehicle by hand. Manually adjusting a few thousand cars a month is already a large task, but some tens of thousands is another story. Hopefully, with bottleneck issues behind (and we have no valid proof of such), the assembly line can do what it’s supposed to do and produce finished products as quickly as possible.

Does this mean that Model 3 quality will suffer?

Well, Tesla has never been revered for its impeccable fit and finish. As stated above, people have been willing to let issues slide. However, there are certain expectations when we’re talking about a $100,000 luxury car. If the automaker didn’t go back and perform those necessary fixes, there would likely be more cause for concern.

The Model 3 is marketed as the “less expensive/entry level” vehicle, even though the current model prices out at closer $50,000 or more, depending on configuration. While expectations may not be as stringent (as if they were stringent in the first place), people are expecting a good car (and perhaps even more so after waiting so long), and traditional automotive reviewers won’t be cutting any slack.

Only time will tell how the Silicon Valley electric automaker fares with Model 3 production and what level of quality the finished product retains once high volume manufacturing is underway. This may prove especially interesting when applied to the originally promised $35,000 base model.

Source: Business InsiderReuters

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102 responses to "Reuters Says Tesla Model S, X Are Often Flawed, Update: Tesla Responds"

  1. bro1999 says:

    “Our goal is to produce perfect cars for every customer. Therefore, we review every vehicle for even the smallest refinement.”

    Must have been a Friday at the end of the quarter when this vehicle was “reviewed for even the smallest refinements”.

    1. stimpy says:

      They could be like GM and just ship narrow seats that hurt your leg and call it a day.

      1. Chris O says:

        Yes, just a small money hemorrhaging production run for compliance purposes, outsource production of all the key parts, dispense with quick charging and most definitely don’t concern oneself with infrastructure. Just keep things simple, plenty of time to focus on quality.

        1. theflew says:

          That small run of Bolts out sold the Model S/X and 3. So I guess they are official compliance cars now.

          1. Recoil says:

            Hey flew, you site flawed statistics. Tesla doesn’t report their sales per month and the fact that the model X and S are 2 to 3 times the price and the bolt can’t even beat them on sales is sad. In fact the model X and S are on track to put out over 70,000 this year. How many bolts were sold again…maybe 25k?

  2. Murrysville EV says:

    “So, are a few quick, manual fixes really a problem?”

    Yes, and a serious one. Adding labor means the design is flawed, which is totally against Deming’s quality principles.

    A good design is robust, meaning its form, fit, and function is the same at all extremes of its tolerances. Meanwhile, tolerances must be maintained by suppliers, and baddies must not slip through incoming QC. Having issues at the end of the production line means everyone from Engineering, Purchasing, the suppliers, incoming QC, and production QC is culpable.

    Adding more people and followup handwork to clean up problems is a terrible way to do business, and it is NOT scalable in today’s economy.

    Tesla doesn’t even deny the allegation. They forget that Model 3 buyers won’t have first adopter mentality – they’ll want a perfect car.

    1. (⌐■_■) Trollnonymous says:

      “They forget that Model 3 buyers won’t have first adopter mentality”

      IMHO, I think a very high percentage will have the first buyer mentality.

      1. Nix says:

        I think initial Tesla buyers will have the mentality of somebody who would:

        1) Wait in line overnight to put down a deposit
        2) Put down a deposit on a car they have never seen
        3) For a car before even getting the specifications
        4) Before there was even a projected delivery window
        5) Who confirms their order before even a test drive
        6) Who already owns a Tesla and knows the quality

        I think that will be the mentality, because that’s the only way to become a Tesla owner right now, short of being an actual Tesla employee. I don’t think that is the mentality of folks who will whine because Tesla dared inspect and do reworks on their car before delivering it to them.

        Heck, they are more likely to say “screw the reworks!! TAKE MY DAMN MONEY ALREADY!!!!”

        LOL!!

        1. Sreehari says:

          Yeah.. lot of people make it sound like early adopters are the people who can afford a Model S or X. I think a lot of people in Model 3 waiting line will chose to forgo any final inspection at all if they can get the vehicle a week earlier.

    2. Mikael says:

      The first 400k who reserved in the first week will definitely have the first adopter approach.
      So Tesla will have plenty of time to correct things and a lot of understanding coming from the buyers for at least another year.

      1. Steve says:

        Tesla has had plenty of time to correct things on the S/X also, and they still show up for delivery with flaws.

        1. jelloslug says:

          Google delivery flaws for any manufacturer and you will find just as many horror stories.

          1. Five Electrics says:

            I’ve purchased a lot of cars. Tesla, by far, as the most flaws of any car I’ve owned.

            1. Pushmi-Pullyu says:

              three or f🤡our or Five Electrics wrote another klown komment! Point and laugh. 😀

              5E, I’m sure all the imaginary cars you pretend to own have as many — or as few — flaws as you want to pretend they do.

              Were you lying all those years about how you hate Tesla cars, or are you lying about having bought one anyway?

              Or both?

            2. Nix says:

              Let me fix that for you:

              “I’ve purchased a lot of imaginary cars. Tesla, by far, as the most imaginary flaws of any car I’ve pretended to own.”

              There you go.

            3. Bill Howland says:

              5E, – just to show the idiots here are wrong, why not tell us about all 5 of your electric cars, and flesh out your comment.

              I’ve already writen extensively about my five electrics over the years.

        2. Roy LeMeur says:

          You would think by reading the comments here that all the other automakers only deliver perfect cars and not the crappy lemons that many have always produced.

          I guess no one here has ever been a service manager at a dealership where it literally “rains” crap much of the time.

          Automakers will pay many millions to cover up fatal flaws guaranteed to kill people than to have to do a major recall or spend an extra two bucks on each vehicle made to correct that fatal flaw.

          They ain’t no angels people.

        3. Peter says:

          I must have been the lucky one. I have two Tesla’s model S both work like a charm after 260.000 km.
          Can’t complain on anything ( except the price ). Still if they run this will for another four years they will end up costing me much less than any other ICE car in the same class.

    3. Nix says:

      “Tesla doesn’t even deny the allegation.”

      They are caught in the denial trap.

      Clearly they have reworks, absolutely every single car maker has reworks. Deming’s goal of “no reworks” is a goal to be systematically worked towards, it is a constant process. No car company actually has “no reworks”.

      So Tesla can’t say they don’t have any reworks. There simply is no denying that they have reworks, just like no other car company can claim “no reworks”. But no car company talks about their reworks in public.

      So what can they do? Start bickering publicly over what their rework number really is? That is counter-productive because it provides a negative external incentive to have cars allowed to get through inspection without reworks just to decrease public rework statistics.

      Deming warns against this EXACT thing, where creating an incentive to let quality issues slide is against the Deming way. You reward finding errors. QA is awarded for breaking software, QA is rewarded for finding every rework possible. This is exactly why you will NEVER find public numbers for reworks for ANY car company.

      No, Tesla isn’t going to be the first, just because some reporter tries to bait them into it.

    4. Sean Wagner says:

      Tesla needs to find Deming urgently, I absolutely agree.

      While the Model 3 does look like it’s much better engineered for quality than previous Teslas, at potentially several thousand cars a week problems will simply swamp the company’s capability to correct them if they lack the fortitude to stop that line.

      Never mind serious recalls in any number, which the present service centers will not be able to handle.

    5. HN says:

      @Murrysville EV,

      There is no such “perfect car” available at any price.

      All cars are compromised.

    6. Stimpacker says:

      @Murrysville (and all those who think it is a big deal for post production fixes).

      Just go visit a Foxconn factory in China and see how Apple products are made. At the end of the production line, you’ll see a long row of manual operators fixing production issues identified by QC. Very typical of any high volume manufacturing.

      Will you be screaming then that Apple products are poorly designed and that the business model is unsustainable?

  3. Dan says:

    It seems to me that entry level buyers will be a lot more sensitive to quality issues than luxury buyers. A model S owner can easily afford to let issues slide, whereas someone who depends on a car as a mode of transport or someone whose budget doesn’t have room for unexpected costs will be far more critical. Hopefully, they get their quality act together before mass production starts. If Tesla stumbles in the next 6 months, it will have bad knockoff effects of how people perceive the EV industry – even for those automakers who have high quality standards.

    1. Mystery says:

      You are right 110%. Because current TSLA buyers who probably are involved in the TSLA stock pumping (like the Pusher and Nanny Nix), And who Fear to Death looking like Fools for Blowing a Lot Of $$$ On a Lemon.
      Ordinary buyers will have Absolutely Tons Less problem Bashing TSLA on FBook Twitter And other platforms to Upend the Gloss off their Brand. So it Absolutely Different And Even More Impt (such as they don’t have Autopilot deaths or Toyota sudden acceleration when you brake Cop deaths).

      1. Pushmi-Pullyu says:

        Tesla hating kl🤡wns like this one are very, very afraid of the Tesla Model 3!

        And you notice how obsessed he is with Tesla’s finances and Tesla’s stock. That’s because his only motive for posting FUD here is that he’s shorting Tesla stock, so naturally he wants to pretend everyone who’s a fan of Tesla must be a “long” investor.

        Nope, not an investor here, troll. That leaves me unconflicted about criticizing Tesla when I think they deserve it.

        And I’m not a LOSER like you, either!

        1. Mystery says:

          Ok, Stuart Smalley Al frankenstein, put down those pompoms, take yr Meds, and crawl back to the cave. You obviously have Zero memory and can’t read basic kindergarten English because you knew before that I am not a shorter, Pinocchio, you learn from yr leader Musk well.

          1. Get Real says:

            Yep, the Mystery troll is just another pos shorter from seeking liars who pops in to join other useful idiots like MadBro to carpetbomb their FUD against Tesla.

            If you need any evidence on why some fools elected the Trumpster and probably Christian shariast/pedophile Roy Moore one only has to look at the idiots who bet and conspire against one of the brightest lights in the new American economy like Tesla.

            1. Nix says:

              He sounds more like the banned Sven every day.

            2. Mystery says:

              Wounds are self-inflicted by their pomposity, grandiosity, And misdirection (as This Article is All about (if you can read)). Keep blinding yourself…see no, speak no, hear no Evil.

              1. Will says:

                Mystery did not mention stocks or business pupu, on your kneels nun. Why is it that if you have slight opinion of tesla we are shorters. Like we said the car will have issues an no mainstream buyer will pay 700 month for an ev that have a terrible quality

    2. Jayydeeee says:

      I’m about to be a model s owner tomorrow and I will not let an issues slide. The inventory S 75 RWD is a bit more than my yearly salary. Your thinking is ridiculous anyone who things like you is just as ridiculous. I’m coming from a 12 year old Accord and I had to take it in once the whole time I owned it(outside of regular maintenance).

      1. Dan says:

        The average Model S owner earns 2x-3x what you earn, then. Most people don’t spend a year’s income on a car. Your situation is very peculiar – I.m guessing that you have way more car than you should have bought given your income!

        1. Pushmi-Pullyu says:

          “The average Model S owner earns 2x-3x what you earn, then.”

          Do you have statistics to back that up?

          Online comments like “I paid far more for my Tesla car than I ever have for any other car” are pretty common. I think it’s safe to say that Tesla car owners on average spend more, as a percentage of their annual income, than the average car buyer.

          That will likely be less true for the more downmarket Model 3, but I would not be at all surprised if Model 3 buyers still out-spend the average car buyer, at least slightly, again as a percentage of their annual income.

          1. Jay Cole says:

            Here are the Tesla (left) household income splits vs everyone else (right), via California VRP outgoing survey (now defunct) – gives you a pretty good idea (sample size ~15k) of how much spare change plug-in owners have in their sofas, (=

            1. Bill Howland says:

              46% of plug-in car owners in California earn $300-400,000 per year?

              Pretty exclusive group compared to the rest of the country.

              1. Bill Howland says:

                Oh, $100-200,000. Ok that’s a bit more like it.

                1. wavelet says:

                  Bill, acc. to Jay, those are _household_ incomes, not personal incomes.

  4. (⌐■_■) Trollnonymous says:

    lol, ex-employee meaning a disgruntled ex-employee.

    I have spoken with currently employed people and it has always been a positive note.
    One thing they always mention is getting to do a lot of overtime and to them it’s a big plus.

    1. bro1999 says:

      Of course they are positive. They don’t want to chance losing their jobs!

      1. Nick says:

        I’m sure they suspect Trollnonymous as an undercover boss mole. 😀

      2. Pushmi-Pullyu says:

        One thing is certain: They are not terrified of Tesla, as you obviously are!

        Go Tesla!

  5. L'amata says:

    BTW…they got their information from the Most Negative and the WORST Possible and most Unreliable sources ! …Disgruntled EX Employees that couldn’t or wouldn’t do their Job Right & were forced to leave…If you expect good reviews or good mentions from these people Utterly Bitter people , We must be TOTAL FOOLS!!

    1. Steve says:

      Just because an employee doesn’t work there anymore, doesn’t mean they are disgruntled.

      1. Nix says:

        It is no secret that Tesla fired their lowest performing 2-3% of employees. It would not be unusual for an employee who was fired to be disgruntled.

    2. Mystery says:

      If you think TSLA and St. Elon is a pure as snow angel, You are Definitely the Pinocchio Fool, blind mouse!

      1. Nick says:

        I thinking you’re replying to the wrong post.

        The one you replied to does not claim Tesla or Elon are angles (or even good). Just that testimony from anonymous ex-employees can be unreliable.

        1. Anon says:

          Especially when you see a trend in certain media publications generating Anti-Tesla Hit Pieces…

          Forbes is another great one, for example.

        2. bro1999 says:

          Must have learned how to reply (fail) from Get Real.

  6. God/Bacardi says:

    I due believe the concern is the “few” and “quick fix” claims…

    From the article: “Known as “kickbacks” within Tesla, these vehicles have glitches as minor as dents and scratches to more complex troubles such as malfunctioning seats. Easy fixes are made swiftly on the factory floor, workers said.

    Trickier cases head to one of Tesla’s outdoor parking lots to await repair. The backlog in one of those two lots, dubbed the “yard,” has exceeded 2,000 vehicles at times, workers told Reuters.”

    1. Murrysville EV says:

      Malfunctioning seats = bad design, bad supplier, bad incoming inspection, bad online inspection, poor assembly methods, lack of training, and/or other issues.

      That backlog of problem cars is ridiculous.

      1. Nick says:

        Yep.

        Better to stop the line, than let a bad copy proceed.

        1. Nix says:

          How can you stop the line to solve a power seat not operating correctly, when the seat operation isn’t checked while the vehicle is still on the assembly line?

          They can’t be tested at point of assembly, the vehicle doesn’t even have power yet.

          1. Pushmi-Pullyu says:

            Gosh, Nix, how unfair of you to use things like logic and facts in your arguments.

            😉 😉 😉

          2. Murrysville EV says:

            What?

            Seat operation should be tested by the supplier, and perhaps sample-checked by Tesla upon incoming inspection. There should be no surprises.

            1. Nix says:

              Supplier can’t test for damage in transit, or damage during install, or incorrect install, etc. Not all “common variation” (as Deming would call it) can be caught by the Supplier. Nor can Tesla catch all sources of variation before the car is assembled.

              There is a reason why every single car company does an inspection AFTER the car is fully assembled.

            2. Nix says:

              Additionally, modern seats aren’t necessarily stand alone units that don’t depend upon external components, sometimes supplied by a completely different supplier.

              Seats can be part of a system, and not just a stand alone unit. For example, the seat heating feature depends upon the heating controls which the seat supplier does not supply. Tesla supplies the controlling functionality. The only way to do validation testing is once ALL the units in the system are assembled and powered up. That doesn’t happen until towards the end of assembly.

      2. Nix says:

        “That backlog of problem cars is ridiculous.”

        Yes, unbelievable.

        As in I would need something more than the word of a former employee to believe such a ridiculous number.

        We’ve all seen photographs of the Tesla Fremont factory parking and overhead views. Tesla doesn’t have room for 2,000+ cars just for cars being reworked at their factory. If there were a lot with 2000+ Tesla’s parked on it on a regular basis since 2012, I don’t think this would be the first we would hear about it, from a former employee.

        Heck, we got pictures when under 100 Tesla’s were seen grouped in the same place. Much less 2000+

    2. pjwood1 says:

      Is it time to go someplace else to find “The Model 3 is expected to be an easier car to produce”?

    3. Pushmi-Pullyu says:

      “Trickier cases head to one of Tesla’s outdoor parking lots to await repair. The backlog in one of those two lots, dubbed the “yard,” has exceeded 2,000 vehicles at times, workers told Reuters.”

      I wonder if it is different at other auto makers. I doubt it.

      1. earl colby pottinger says:

        I used to worked at the GM truck, and the number of reworks could be quite large sometimes.

  7. James says:

    Tesla = BAD

    From: All who own ICE OEM company stocks. ICE service and repair company stocks. Owners of ICE parts supplier stocks. Owners of oil and gas cartel stocks.

    Even public utilities are gearing up for lawsuits re: Tesla ( Solar City ) solar panels and battery backup systems! They are now in courts around the nation saying that only rich people can afford Tesla systems on their homes, thus they should be regulated and controlled as not to raise energy prices to the poor, needy folk like me who are attached to their grids because they’d have to raise their prices due to losses of revenue!

    Tesla and Musk, like any disruptors, have legions of enemies. Look to these very pages as evidence each and every day. Who wouldn’t be scared of change? Changes of jobs, industries and cultures.

    I know classic car guys ( I own a classic car ) who hate Tesla and they don’t even know why they hate Tesla! Most likely, it’s because it somehow threatens their entire mental state on cars. Heck, I tell them they already look at their cars as antiques – what is so threatening about new age cars having a different propulsion system under the “hood”?

    What new Tesla fear campaign will pop up tomorrow in Rueters, Forbes or Business Insider?

    Kinda fun to sit back and watch, actually. Especially when and if Tesla rises up to become one of the major American/world car companies.

    1. Nick says:

      I think you’ve cut right to the heart of the issue.

  8. John says:

    Interesting that Tesla didn’t deny that there are flaws. Flaws at the end of assembly are pretty serious in a mass production environment. It means there aren’t sufficient controls or QC at any point earlier in the process, including possibly at the supplier and procurement level. That is worrisome.

    I’m still rooting for Tesla and I like them. Mass production of vehicles is not easy. I think they’ll eventually do well. But it looks like they have some work to do.

    1. Pushmi-Pullyu says:

      There certainly is an issue, or at least has been in the past, with Tesla having more fit-and-finish problems than more established auto makers. In some ways, Tesla is showing that it’s still a young and growing company.

      But it’s ridiculous to suggest there is any auto maker which doesn’t have units which fail a quality control check, or that doesn’t have to fix problems by hand after the unit rolls off the assembly line.

  9. CDAVIS says:

    From Article Title: “Reuters Says Tesla Model S, X Are Often Flawed”
    ———————-

    Just like Mercedes-Benz Are Often Flawed…

    “Most of the people who own and drive a Mercedes-Benz vehicle are not aware of what is takes to assemble and produce these high-end cars. The process of building such cars is complex and detailed…. The fully assembled Mercedes-Benz is then driven out of the plant, where defects are checked and repaired before the car is released into the market…”

    source: Mercedes-Benz Assembly Line Production

    https://www.autohaussouthbay.com/2017/04/14/mercedes-benz-assembly-line-production/

    1. (⌐■_■) Trollnonymous says:

      Every auto manufacturer has this process. It’s no secret.

      This report screams pissed off ex-employees that probably got terminated for “performance reasons”.

      1. Vexar says:

        “citing figures from Tesla’s internal tracking system”

        How did Reuters get access to sensitive information like that?

        1. Nix says:

          Reuters never claims to have gotten direct access to those numbers. They are quoting what their source claims the numbers were “as recently as October”. Coincidentally, Tesla fired their lowest performing 2-3% of employees in October (while promoting their top 17% of employees at the same time).

          Numbers as recent as October, and lowest performing employees were fired in October, and Reuters is relying on their source for the numbers.

          1. Pushmi-Pullyu says:

            Thank you.

            It’s sad when the difference between an established fact and an unsupported claim needs to be pointed out. The lack of critical thinking here on the part of some readers is really sad. 🙁

            1. Nix says:

              To be fair, Vexar didn’t make the claim, he questioned that claim.

      2. Jayydeeee says:

        There is one major difference and critical point other companies check the cars before they deliver to the dealership where as Tesla leaves it up to the customer to point out the flaws.

        1. CDAVIS says:

          @Jayydeeee said: “…other companies check the cars before they deliver to the dealership where as Tesla leaves it up to the customer to point out the flaws.”
          ——————-

          Wrong….

          “We go inside Tesla’s rigorous quality testing that each of its vehicles must undergo before hitting the road. From water and drive tests to a 101-point checklist, see the exhaustive inspection these electric beauties go through…”

          Source: WIRED

        2. Pushmi-Pullyu says:

          “There is one major difference and critical point other companies check the cars before they deliver to the dealership where as Tesla leaves it up to the customer to point out the flaws.”

          Do you honestly believe Tesla has no QC procedure? Are you actually that gullible, or are you just trolling?

          * * * * *

          From Green Car Reports: “Tesla Model S Quality Testing: 5 Hours Of Indoor Inspection (Video)”

          Tesla Model S Quality Testing: 5 Hours Of Indoor Inspection (Video)

  10. Bill Howland says:

    “Must have been a Friday”.. HAHAHA I usually say my car must have been made on a Monday or a Friday if I have excessive problems.

    Potential customers must get circumspect when hearing Mr. Musk’s plan to ‘Speed up the Robots to Light Speed’ , what I call “Magician Speed” (the hand is faster than the eye).

    If they can only get panels to fit within 1/2 ” tolerance on the new Model “3”, with normal speed equipment, – how they ‘improve precision with Ludacrously sped up equipment is beyong me. And its beyond them also.

    Any manufacturing person you talk to ALWAYS says it is MUCH MUCH more economical to ‘Build it Right the First Time’.

    (That is why the BONES of most GM cars are excellent – they don’t make good cars necessarily because they want to, they make good cars since they CAN’T AFFORD to make crappy ones that will eat them alive with warranty repairs).

    If they speed up their lines, I have no idea where TESLA is going to find the CA$H to pay for all the warranty repairs once the cars are out the door.

    Because, sooner or later, even Tesla can run out of Other People’s Money.

    1. Mystery says:

      You are the premier Beacon Of Reason in this InsideEVs commenting forum, and serve to deflect all the hot air, smoke & mirrors misdirection deceptive cheerleading Flatulence from others

      1. Nick says:

        Bawahahaha!

        1. Anon says:

          It’s called “Armchair Engineering”. 😉

          Those that can’t, blog. (Right, Lutz?)

          Those that can, build the machine that makes the machine.

          1. Mystery says:

            It would be great if the Machine that Makes the Machine works, and Does Not Produce Defects still 5-6 years later. So 400k+ Reservations can be fulfilled according to Proclamation (Avodiing Egg On Face). Speaking of which you, mi amigo …
            Way to stick a potty soiled Heeled Shoe in yo mouth (with your post)

            1. Get Real says:

              LMAO, serial anti-Tesla hater the Mystery-troll is getting desperate (5 whiney posts here and counting) as Tesla’s Model 3 mass production gets closer and closer to opening the floodgates of large numbers of compelling PEVs on the streets.

              Just like Mueller’s investigation is putting the squeeze on the Trumpsters collusion/corruption the impending Model 3 as the tipping point for large scale mass production and sales of compelling PEVs is scaring the crap out of the shills, shorters and haters.

              1. Mystery says:

                Absolutely zero intelligence in your post addressing this article, just hot air misdirection flatulence.
                Let the Model3 market in California decide, when “Waiting List = Nobody” occurs (which occurred Much faster than expected for the ~$100k Model X)
                Will see what happens.

                1. Bill Howland says:

                  Well thank you Mr. Mystery – that’s quite a rave – never got anything as nice said about me here, even amoungst my 2 friends here. (5 friends if you consider the 3 whom I’ve never met in person).

                  But I have been ‘around the block’ so-to-speak on a production line – and so, its a bit more than ANON’s ‘armchair engineering’.

                  Someone who has never been on a production line COULD offer intelligent comments, but you are correct, there are a dearth of them here.

                  I’m not sure how all companies do their manufacturing work – but I AM absolutely positive that Quality Control is a VERY BIG item. Hence all the time spend on ISO qualifications.

                  This is ‘back-door’ proof that ‘Building it right the first time’ is very popular thinking in industry.

                  I was at a meeting once of bonafide ‘efficiency experts’, who found that a $50 problem immediately corrected as a design flaw, translated to a $5000 problem on the production line, and a $50,000 problem to try to fix if it got out into the field.

                  Corporate Accountants pay attention to that sort of thing.

                  1. Mystery says:

                    Yes, or Takata air bag Recalls.
                    End. O. Company. Period.
                    But TSLA gets a pass on insignificant first Autopilot death in China, via Uber level of sweeping under the rug.
                    Hopefully they do succeed and Model 3 achieves backlog waiting list in LA and California, if No More Boneheaded Keystone Cops errors.

  11. Tom says:

    The further they go ‘down market’ the less tolerant of ‘we’ll fix it later’ people will become. Getting that person who was driving a Camry to accept a few loose/misfit parts here and there is tricky. However I do believe they still have more slack in the market for tolerance of this kind than any other automaker. As long as they are able to respond reasonably quickly, people will be forgiving….for awhile. If 3 years from now we are still having this conversation then not so much. There are two other things abundantly clear at this point.
    1. They have thus confirmed the production of S and X are not capacity constrained. By saying they’ve dropped from 3 shifts to 2 through efficiency, they are also saying they could produce 1 whole shift worth of vehicles more if they needed to. Most people have come to the conclusion S and X have topped out on demand, but this is interesting confirmation.

    2. They are NOT leading in any way in manufacturing and automation. It’s pretty obvious they are learning. Learning quickly but learning and nowhere near the execution level of Nissan and Chevy. The idea that some people had that Tesla could just walk in and from the start blow every old school manufacturer away was ludicrous on its face and still is. It may be true that in 3 or 4 more years Tesla passes their capabilities, but not just yet. Tesla has the same robotics suppliers as everyone else, unless they have a secret robot design group they’ve been hiding.

    1. Mystery says:

      Fully correct. Peak combined Model S & X reached Many Months ago in US (per all the hard work by InsideEVs). Absolutely No Way the non-US “claimed” Remainder is going to Real Intl End User customers.
      If this article is true, that By Anyone standard is Really Pathetic for a 5-6 year old car Model S, but totally not unbelievable, given Model 3 mfgr, Even Gigafactory probs and Ongoing Delay.
      All of the Real complaints on the Tesla owners forum truthfully indicate the quality of the vehicle.
      In the end, most all that matters is when Model 3 California’s Wait List gets to “Nobody wants one or Needs you wait anymore”, like this week for the iPhone X by Apple

    2. Some Guy says:

      Well, for starters, 100 k combined Model S and Model X require about 700-800 Million 18650-type battery cells made by Panasonic in Japan.
      The estimation in the long run was to sell 100 k Model S and X per year. Now, if higher production is desired, like adding one shift and suddenly make now 140-150 k Model S / X (which surely would sell immediately if e.g. S60 would reappear), Panasonic would also have to increase the output of 18650-type cells from lets say 750 million to about 1.1 billion cells per year, which is probably not so easy using the existing equipment in Japan. (GF1 only makes the 21-70 format, so that can’t be used for S or X).
      Just to get an estimation how much that is, all manufactuturers combined in the world made like 5-6 billion cells last year, including all Smart-phone and toy Lithium ion batteries. So Tesla is already consuming 12-15% of the entire world production in lithium ion batteries, and with the Model 3 that share will rise for sure.

      1. Pushmi-Pullyu says:

        Significant ramping up of production of the Models S and X may come after Tesla switches from using Panasonic’s 18650 cells (imported from Japan) to using 2170 cells from Gigafactory One, thus saving a significant amount of money.

        It’s unlikely to come before that. Tesla has announced quite clearly that in the near term they will be focusing on ramping up Model 3 production, even to the extent of pulling personnel off MS and MX production to help with ramping up, and — according to Tesla’s estimate — temporarily reducing MS and MX production by about 10%.

    3. Nix says:

      Tom said: “Getting that person who was driving a Camry to accept a few loose/misfit parts here and there is tricky.”

      It is a good thing then that Tesla is targeting BMW, Audi, and Mercedes customers instead.

      LOL!!!

      1. Mystery says:

        Speaking of a big potty-soiled foot in your mouth, if you think Tesla can reach 400k sales just at the BMW loyalist ~$50k level, and survive Pricing themselves out of the ~$35k market (as you admitted, and I agree they have), you must be Vaping.

        1. Nix says:

          Goodcarbadcar documents 824,126 units of sales in 2016 for the “Small And Midsize Luxury Car Sales In America” category. (No Camry’s on that list, LOL!!)

          Tesla took over approx one-quarter of the Large luxury market by 2015, and for H1 2017 they had 1/3rd of that market!!!

          https://cleantechnica.com/2017/07/05/tesla-model-s-crushes-large-luxury-car-competition-h1-2017-us-sales/

          If the Model 3 is only as successful as the Model S and not more successful, that is a potential market for 200K to 275K units in sales.

          But so far we’ve only talked about the US car market. We haven’t even talked about the global market. By growing into more and more nations around the world, Tesla is now actually selling more units overseas than in the US. So double that 200K – 275K for additional global sales. That is enough market to sustain 400-550K units per year by simply taking the same market share as they did with the Model S.

          But keep on underestimating Tesla, and pretending like they won’t repeat the success of the Model S with the Model 3. They will keep on building cars no matter what you do or say. Nothing you can do will stop them.

          1. Mys says:

            As Aerosmith says, Dream On, while you are at it, let’s just In-n-Out Double-Double Exponentially project it all to Mars.

            1. Nix says:

              Oh, so you are the Expert now, eh? So how is your track record, Me Expert. Just link to where you projected in 2012 before the Model S production began where you predicted that the Model S would take over 1/3rd of the Large Luxury car market in the US.

              Please, show us how great you are at predicting long term Tesla sales. Because you nutters keep getting the long term numbers wrong again and again. Heck, even Tesla fans have been well short of predicting long term sales numbers.

              So where did you get the predictions right on the Model S sales numbers?

              1. Mystery says:

                Instead up flabbergassing endlessly, we can set a Baby bar for TSLA US model 3 sales of 2018 100k / year (No Intl sales smoke and mirrors Quid Pro Quo partner sales allowed) which will be almost equal to the whole current Non-TSLA US “any sort of electrification” sales total. Do you want to Bet yr House / Family / Clothing on that in Trump Vegas hotel, and clean his dog’s Golden Bidet? If TSLA Fremont/Gigafactory fails/stalls, Too Bad for You (use that Toothbrush and Scrub away)!

  12. Sladjo says:

    Who cares… Musk and Tesla have revolutionized the automotive industry. Every major car manufacturer wants to build EV’s and everyone wants to beet Tesla… The rest are unimportant details… 🙂

    1. Jayydeeee says:

      Having quality built cars is just details now? Spending time to align trim and panels must be below Tesla? Or tightening every bolt and nut properly so that things don’t rattle?

      1. pjwood1 says:

        Tesla hired Audi’s A4 production guy. They are among the best, with lipstick. What do you think he’s been working on?

        https://electrek.co/2016/05/13/tesla-audi-senior-director-production-model-3-program/

        (can’t believe I’m linking to Electrik, but these latest stories and comments call for it)

      2. Nix says:

        I think he is trying to say that if we turned back the clock just 5 years to 2012, and asked EV enthusiasts if they could buy a 200-300 mile range EV for $35-45K, would they worry about stuff like panel gap? True EV enthusiasts would have all laughed in your face.

        Tesla has led the long range EV push, and it has revolutionized the EV world. To now whine about panel gap or reworks while they accomplished that massive historic accomplishment seems very petty. Perhaps even childish when looking at it from the perspective of what Tesla has contributed to the advancement of EV’s as a brand new company (including Tesla’s influence on forcing ICE car makers to break out past sub-100 mile compliance EV’s).

        ____________________-

        I will probably sound like the father telling their spoiled kids whining about the TV in the headrest not working on their ride to school, who scolds them that when he was a kid he had to walk to school uphill both ways in 6 feet of snow.

        But why so much whining and complaining that Tesla dare inspect and fix problems before they dare delivering you your revolutionary game changing EV that we could only dream about just five years ago?

        Some EV fans have gotten soft and spoiled.

      3. Pushmi-Pullyu says:

        “Having quality built cars is just details now?”

        Consumer Reports says that Tesla has significantly improved the fit-and-finish of its cars; improved to the extent that CR has moved the Tesla Model S from “not recommended” in past years, to currently being “recommended”.

        Furthermore, Tesla continues to be the runaway #1 auto maker on CR’s customer satisfaction surveys, year after year… fit and finish issues and all!

        Now, that’s not to say that Tesla has entirely eliminated its problems with fit and finish. But to suggest that Tesla’s problems with that are any more than slightly greater than the same problems that legacy auto makers have… Well, that’s nothing but fact-free Tesla bashing.

        This isn’t an either/or question; it’s a matter of degree. That degree certainly isn’t anywhere nearly as large as Tesla bashers want to make it out to be. If it was that bad, then Tesla would never have attained #1 in customer satisfaction, nor would it have ever gotten rave “Best car ever made!” reviews from multiple professional auto reviewers.

  13. Nix says:

    The Fremont factory does have a history of bad reworks:

    “Billy Haggerty worked in hood and fender assembly…Haggerty saw all kinds of mistakes go right down the line.

    “So we had Monte Carlos with Regal front ends and vice versa,” he recalled. There were cars with engines put in backwards, cars without steering wheels or brakes. Workers fixed them later in a yard outside — sometimes doing more damage to the vehicles.”

    Yup, reworks were pretty bad when GM built cars in the Fremont Nummi plant that Tesla now owns.

    1. earl colby pottinger says:

      You mean when the unions made it hard to get rid of bad workers?

  14. Steven says:

    I guess they’ve never driven a Ford or GM product.

  15. Brave Lil' Toaster says:

    This is actually brilliant. You know why?

    Because you can actually *do* this with a luxury product, thanks to its high retail price tag. Can you imagine how things would have gone if Tesla’s first model was a cheap econobox like the Miles Electric?

    Well, they would have failed spectacularly in exactly the same fashion as Miles Electric. Trying to compete in a space where your competition is cheaper by default is a very, very bad plan.

    Instead, Tesla has the time and money to iron out manufacturing issues *before* it has the need to spare every expense wherever possible.

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