Report: Next Gen Toyota Prius To Have 30-35 Miles Of Range

JUL 21 2015 BY JAY COLE 67

30-35 Miles Of Range Coming For Gen 2 Prius?

30-35 Miles Of Range Coming For Gen 2 Prius?

Here is what we know for sure.  Production of the current generation of the plug-in Toyota Prius ended in June.  The next generation Prius PHV won’t arrive until late in 2016 at best, but will feature both an undisclosed amount of additional range and a slightly higher extended range MPG (~55).

Overall Driving Efficiency Is Said To Increase 10% In The Next Gen Prius

Overall Driving Efficiency Is Said To Increase 10% In The Next Gen Prius

Today, GreenCarReports is stating that it has heard from a reliable source that the all-electric range of the next Prius PHV will be 30-35 miles.

If true, this would make the Toyota a significant player in the EV world when that vehicle arrives, as there can be no dying the value of the Prius brand.

Given the news is via John Voelcker (Senior Editor), who we have a lot of respect for – and know is loathe to spread rumor, we feel his report is quite likely to be accurate.

“Within the last month, we heard from an industry source that the next Toyota Prius Plug-In Hybrid will have “30 to 35 miles” of rated battery range.” 

On that source John says, “Our source is an executive in the auto industry who’s deeply familiar with the current and future universe of battery-electric and plug-in hybrid vehicles,” while adding, “We trust that source, and are satisfied with the source’s explanation of how the Toyota information was obtained.”

First Gen Toyota Prius Plug-In Hybrid Window Sticker (click to enlarge)

First Gen Toyota Prius Plug-In Hybrid Window Sticker (click to enlarge)

The current Toyota Prius PHV has 11-ish miles of EPA-rated range in the US; with the “ish” being present because the Toyota can’t complete the entire EPA test cycle due to the gas engine cycling on to assist with power when needed.

Officially, the Prius PHV can go 6 miles into the US test before it needs some petrol help.

Previously, we had heard that Toyota was looking to add to the first generation’s limited EV range up to around 20 miles, most likely in response to some worldwide standards in place that sees all new PHEVs net that amount or higher.

We take the good news from GreenCarReports this week as a confirmation that indeed the Prius PHV will get a considerable range increase.  The question now becomes is this 30-35 miles of new range for the Toyota an EPA estimated number, or a Euro/Japan based estimate?

Just For "Fun", InsideEVs' Mark Hovis Made This Graphic Comparing MPGe/Gas Usage Of The 2016 Chevy Volt And Theoretical 2nd Gen Toyota Prius PHV

Just For “Fun”, InsideEVs’ Mark Hovis Made This Graphic Comparing MPGe/Gas Usage Of The 2016 Chevy Volt And Theoretical 2nd Gen Toyota Prius PHV

If it is indeed an EPA-estimate, the new Prius PHV will be a serious competitor to any other extended-range offering and will likely be an exceptionally great seller and a much need ‘shot to the pants’ for the PHEV segment, as the currently plug-in Prius is the cost leader for PHEVs with a price-point starting under $30,000 ($29,990) – a pricing leadership position we expect to continue into the next generation.

If it is a NEDC/JC-08 estimate, then that would translate almost exactly to the earlier expected 20-miles of ‘real-world’ range, which we still have to celebrate as a vast improvement too!

Green Car Reports, hat tip to Teng!

 

Categories: Toyota

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67 Comments on "Report: Next Gen Toyota Prius To Have 30-35 Miles Of Range"

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bro1999

So Toyota will release this “long range” PiP in 2016 that still won’t even eclipse the EV range of the now 5 year old Volt.

Great job, Toyota! *slow clap*

Bonaire

Well, they say 30-35 mile range. Volt came out with an EPA range of 38 and I still get 40-48 miles of drive-ability in the summer in my 2011. It will depend on how many kWh Toyota make available for the AER. If 8-9, that would be a huge win for them. Then, price it maybe $3-4k above the current Prius and then the federal tax credit brings it back down again to near Prius Hybrid costs.

Well, I still want to know if can you floor it without the engine coming on. The range is an improvement, but still weak given that it will be released in 2016. And if we want to minimize engine starts, they need to give it a decent traction motor.

Pushmi-Pullyu

kdawg said:

“Well, I still want to know if can you floor it without the engine coming on.”

I doubt it. Toyota seems to have little interest in trying to improve the Prius sufficiently to challenge Voltec engineering.

But I’d love to be proven wrong.

Just_chris

Whenever I think of Toyota I think about the first Prius and how rubbish it was. The discussion I had with my father at the time was why didn’t they go further, really it was no better at that stage than a small engined compact car.

They gradually improved it, added new models and took forever to do anything. Then, one day I woke up and there where hybrid Toyota’s everywhere. There is much talk around their fuel cell program but that is not going to help them get to 95 gCO2/km in 2020 in the EU. I could see Toyota releasing a mild plugin version of every hybrid they sell (which is a lot) between now and 2020, I could see it taking forever and being painful to watch but I could also see them as having the required fleet CO2 emissions well before everyone else. I could also see GM and Fait going bust because they can’t meet the EU emission target or CARB compliance targets.

I don’t like Toyota’s approach but it is difficult to fault it.

Pushmi-Pullyu

I don’t have any difficulty at all in faulting it. Toyota is like Blackberry, which marketed the first popular smart phone, but “rested on its laurels” and failed to keep up when competition developed. Likewise, Toyota marketed the first popular HEV (Hybrid EV), but hasn’t kept up as Tesla, Nissan and GM have moved the EV revolution forward.

How is Blackberry doing these days, hmmm? 🙁

Just_Chris

I agree tesla, nissan, Renault and GM have moved the ev cause forward much more than Toyota. IMO Toyota are still the best positioned to be profitable as a large scale auto manufacturer in the EU post 2020. They have 5 years to put a 10 kWh pack in each of their hybrids the rest currently have one or two offerings with the exception of Renault who have a few more. In 5 years they have to pull out a whole heap of new models and drive trains or face being fined for every gram they are over the limit.

Dave K.

I think you all miss the point, Prius is a “transportation appliance” so it’s not supposed to be sporty or anything else but practical. Whether it’s 22mi. or 35mi. of EV range it’s now enough to do most commutes and when you exceed that it’s 55MPG!!! No one else in this size and price range comes close. Toyota is the hybrid king and it seems they mean to stay that. What remains to be seen is that the right long term strategy or will pure EVs bypass PHEVs due to 200+ mile range batteries.

M Hovis

The break even in superior MPG is 173 miles for and old Volt to an old Prius.
The break even for MY2016 Volt to the 55 MPG Prius is 245 miles.
245 miles…
245 miles….

Brian
…245 miles. Very interesting. My family all lives just a hair over 250 miles away from me. And all of my local driving is either on my Leaf or less than 5 miles/day at less than 40 MPH (i.e. even a 2015 PiP could do it). I ran the numbers years ago to which PHEV would use the least gas for me, and it turned out to be the Ford Energi. The Volt didn’t even come close, due to its poor CS MPG. Of course, that was before Ford had to go back and revise all of their numbers down. After they fixed their numbers, the PiP became the clear winner. I haven’t run the numbers again with the 2016 Volt, but at this point I’ll wait to see the 2017 PiP so I can give it a fair comparison. One more thing- size. The Volt (even the 2016) is just too small to really be a road trip vehicle for a family of 4. Imagine fitting a week’s worth of clothing, toys, etc in that tiny trunk. The PiP has a much bigger trunk (and the CMax Energi is even larger – although oddly arranged). Bottom line – there… Read more »

This is only comparing fuel efficiency, nothing else. Old Prius hybrid to old Volt was 173 mile breakeven. 35 electric range of a plug in of any kind is welcome.

M Hovis

I believe you are extrapolating I am discussing the PiP. I am talking about the Prius HEV.

wavelet

Best position company in the EU is, by far, VW Group. They’re already selling BEVs and PHEVs, with more due. Both the e-Golf and Golf GTE are doing well, the e-Up is holding its own, and the Passat GTE is expected to do well likewise. Numerous additional models are in active development across the Audi and Porsche as well, including SUV and crossovers.
Unless Toyota are already spending billions on multiple crash-priority EV/PHEV programs (and if they were, there’d certainly be external signs), they’re pretty badly situated for 2020. It should be also noted that aside from the Prius, their other non-plugin hybrids aren’t doing too well (Auris, Yaris) — unlike the Prius, they offer negligible fuel economy over the non-hybrid versions, and simply aren’t worth the extra cost.

io

And Chevrolet, Nissan and hopefully others will release their “long range” EV which won’t even match the range of then-5-year-old Teslas. So?

“But, but, it’s not the same!..” Exactly. Like Model S, the Volt is great but too expensive for some, maybe too small for others, etc.

More plus-ins, more choices are good things. So is seeing Toyota warming up to the idea of “a bit more electric” vehicles.

Carcus

30+ miles of real world EV range??? Nice.

Now, just keep the PHEV upgrade under $4,000 and we’re talking.

Kim mie

Laughable EV sabotage no efforts at all.

My money on this being a NEDC estimated range, which puts EPA rated EV range at 20-22 miles. That makes a lot more sense from a cost perspective. If you’re shopping for a plugin, consider that the new Volt starts at 34K, while a PiP used to start at 30K, and more than doubling the battery capacity would ratchet up the price a good amount.

M Hovis

I trust Anthony’s guess as well as anyone on this. If it is 35 AER and 105 MPGe, it would equal a MY 2016 Volt @ 110 miles or 27,500 miles annually. @ 20 mile AER as Anthony suggests, 170 miles or 42,500 annually. BTW, the straight hybrid @ 55 MPG catches the VOlt @ 245 miles or 61,250 miles annually. A great move in the right direction, but this clearly shows the difference between 20 or 35 AER. It is a BIG difference.

M Hovis

With Prius @ 95 MPGe, the breakeven is 138 miles or 34,500 miles annually as reflected in the article graph. This only comes into play for longer commutes of 25 miles or larger with charging on one end only. The point being that all electric range (AER) effects long distance travel and commutes more than high MPG.

sven
“That makes a lot more sense from a cost perspective.” My money is on EPA-rated range of 30-35 mpg. Don’t forget the new Prius is the first car that Toyota will be making with its Toyota New Global Architecture (TNGA), the next step in the vaunted Toyota Production System (TPS). The improvements in production process engineering are expected to cut costs by about 20% according to Motor Trend. http://www.motortrend.com/future/future_vehicles/1505_toyota_new_global_architecture_mass_car_building/ “At the heart of TPS 2.0 is a trim and nimble factory, downsized to around 200,000 units per year, but capable of making eight or more models at the same time on the same line. That factory looks pretty much like Toyota’s Miyagi plant near Sendai, which I could visit four years ago. That plant has no deep pits, no overhead rigging. The assembly line is bolted into the floor. To increase capacity, the line can be made longer, over the weekend. It can be made shorter when demand ebbs. Push comes to shove, the assembly line can be unbolted, loaded into containers, and shipped elsewhere, where it is needed more.” “. . . The TNGA factory is filled with equipment that does the same job with less energy, less effort,… Read more »
pjwood1

30-35 EPA would be a mea culpa, and we know Toyota is a long way from letting go of its pink and lime green, “Elio” toys.

Mike777

But the Leaf in this time frame will have 150+ range.
So, do you go with the greater savings and simplicity of an all EV solution, or the greater complexity of the hybrid solution.

David Murray

I guess that will be up to each person to decide. The PHEV will still be more flexible for at least the next 10-15 years.

Spider-Dan

The Leaf is certainly simpler… in fact, it’s too simple. It would be helped immensely by having a more complicated battery thermal management system.

Khai L.

The larger battery should also improve performance, mais non?

The more desirable they make the PIP, the more they undermine their own mirai! What a dilemma!

vdiv

Oh, that’s a great observation.
The answer is to give the Mirai a larger battery, an onboard charger with a plug, and just get rid of the hydrogen nonsense 😉

Pushmi-Pullyu

LOL! Stone soup… 🙂

Pushmi-Pullyu

“Twice nothing is still nothing.” — Cyrano Jones, Classic Star Trek: “The Trouble with Tribbles”

Well okay, 30-35 miles of range (assuming that’s not inflated, which it probably is) is a bit more than nothing. But compared to the 150+ mile rating of the nominally “200 mile” EVs coming in 2017, it’s not much.

David Murray

Apples to oranges. This is a PHEV. I doubt we’ll ever see a PHEV with 150 miles of EV range. It doesn’t make sense.

Pushmi-Pullyu

It makes perfect sense to me, just as soon as the price of batteries comes down far enough to justify it. Or even 200-250 electric miles plus a “range extender” gas engine.

If it can work for the approx. 72 mile electric range BMW i3 REx, it certainly can and will work for PHEVs with longer electric ranges.

David, I don’t think you’re considering what the future of EVs will look like. We haven’t even seen the EV equivalent of the Ford Model T yet. Until we get BEVs which can be recharged at a rate of, let’s say, 300 miles of range in 10 minutes or less, we’re going to continue to see PHEVs with longer all-electric ranges.

ffbj

Yeah, they have to have something going for them to stay in the game, and greater all ev range is just an added feature, and for those really long trips you just fill up with gas.
Thereby touting the versatility of the vehicle.

Pushmi-Pullyu

Putting on my Grammar Nazi hat:

“…there can be no dying the value of the Prius brand.”

I’d guess this was supposed to be “denying”? Looks like an autocorrect error.

David Murray

Even if it turns out to be an NEDC rating, thus translating to 20 miles of range. That will still be a huge improvement over the current generation PiP. It would still be essentially double the range. And let’s hope it also has the ability to lock out the ICE for an all-electric driving experience.

I have suspected for a while that even though Toyota is not embracing the pure electric vehicle, that they would likely come out with a much better PHEV eventually.

With the larger battery, they’ll be able to claim a larger tax credit, too. I’ve always said there was no reason not to include a larger battery since the government is basically going to pay for any battery up to 16 Kwh.

Khai L.

I’ve wondered about the tax incentives. I think Toyota’s the only manufacturer to be in the unenviable position to have surpassed the 200k limit years ago.

Maybe that’s why they’ve been pooh-poohing EV’s, because they’ve excluded themselves already?

John

If this was happening now it would be news. In late 2016 maybe, it’s underwhelming. An improvement to be sure, but it will remain well behind the curve. By then we’ll have many more options with greater range, both PHEV and PEV.

The Prius is popular enough that it may still do reasonably well in sales, but I don’t think these kind of late and small improvements are going to cut it in the long term. If anything, they reveal Toyota’s lack of vision.

ItsNotAboutTheMoney

The numbers could be Japanese, just as anything from the Germans is NEDC.

PiP was a hack job after backing the wrong horse in the lithium race. Better than the NiMH, but not by enough.

Will be interesting to see what it is when it arrives, but I’m not waiting with bated breath. The Volt 2 will have been out for a year, with increased AER and EV efficiency that makes its improved hybrid efficiency less important. Bolt and Leaf Gen 2 should be close to launch, and Model 3 will also be a year closer. The most interesting question about it could be whether the battery intrudes.

Scramjett

I expect that this “30-35 miles” estimate is from the NEDC/JC-08 cycles. I find it difficult to believe that an uber-conservative company like Toyota would leap frog the competition. They are most likely playing catch-up.

I also expect that the 20 real world miles is really 20-ish miles like the current 11-ish miles. Toyota cannot bring themselves to include a HO battery pack in the Prius. Therefore, the engine will, once again, have to kick on whenever you so much as sneeze.

You have to remember, Toyota is not about reducing fuel consumption, they are about emissions reduction. If they cared about reducing fuel/oil consumption, they would be building EREVs and BEVs, not hybrids and FCEVs.

Lou Grinzo

Wait — the new one won’t arrive until late 2016, not 2015? Will Toyota be making any more PiPs before then? If not, then the 643 at US dealers (according to cars.com) won’t even get them through two more months of sales at the current rate (avg. for 2015), and they won’t have any to sell for roughly five quarters. That can’t be right.

Another rumor is that the 2016 Prius will have an AWD option.

Wouldn’t it be great if the Prius had a PHEV AWD option? It could again lead the automotive field as did the original Prius!

ffbj

Makes sense to me.

If the EV part can not go highway speeds extra battery will not help. You need a traction motor like the Volt to go highway speeds.

Priusmaniac

30 miles of ev autonomy is less than the volt 1 at 38 and less than the volt 2 at 50 and this is only planned for 2016 perhaps 2017. If they want to be taken seriously the Prius 4 should have 100 miles of autonomy, then it can reenter its Prius costume.

ModernMarvelFan

30-35 EV miles blended mostly likely..

Probably a stronger version of the Ford Energi.

philip d

I think you’re right. In fact I would also put money on the 30-35 number not being EPA but rather the Japanese cycle.

I would guess it will have a slightly larger battery than the Fusion Energi, say 9 kWh. Using 80% that would come out to 7.2 kWhs usable giving it about 25 miles EV range.

Then I bet it will use an electric motor no greater than 100 hp. More than likely it will stick with the 80 hp motor they are already using to keep it as efficient, albeit weak in EV mode, as possible.

Bloggin

With other global brands offering a 20ish mile EV range, it’s expected the Prius would offer the same. Simply because the battery pack that would be used in a Prius plug-in, would need to be the same offered in another Toyota or Lexus plug-in model as well, and two different EV ranges would require two different battery packs, and that’s not going to happen. Battery packs become cost effective when the same pack can be used across several models.

Then there is the fact that Toyota values gasoline hybrid mpg over battery range, and an even larger battery pack adds more weight that would decrease the hybrid mpg that Toyota values so much for the Prius.

Someone out there

An PHEV with 30 miles of range in 2016 (2017?) is not exactly what I would call “a significant player in the EV world”. The Volt’s already got that beaten today!

30 miles of electric range is barely adequate today, not so in 2 years.

Someone out there

Toyota doesn’t really want to give the Prius a decent electric range because then people will start asking the uncomfortable question “What do we need hydrogen for?”

Priusmaniac

As Spock would say “When you eliminate the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth”.

Since the evidences against Hydrogen are more and more blatant what remains to explain Akio Toyoda decision is one of these:

He is uninformed. Basically impossible with all the people around him.

He is dumb and ignorant. He is a lawyer by education not an engineer, so that could be it but still quiet unlikely.

He is unable to recognize the error in fear of face loss. That would only be delaying for an even bigger face loss when Toyota Kodak type bankruptcy comes along in ten years.

He is being blackmailed. Is this the however improbable truth?

Speculawyer

Why would any Toyota fan buy the Mirai when they could buy this for half the price?

ItsNotAboutTheMoney

This won’t be half the price. Maybe 3/5s.

But indeed, with a real AER, higher proportion of EV miles, more pure EV capability and more efficient gas hybrid operation, all at significantly lower cost than Mirai, people are going to wonder. Not surprising that Toyota delayed the Prius launch.

NorCalEV

They’re not going to make very many Mirais.
Mirai is a Mirage.

io

For any driver with access to a dedicated parking spot and an outlet, no question, a plug-in makes sense.

Unfortunately not everyone has: http://www.ucsusa.org/clean_vehicles/smart-transportation-solutions/advanced-vehicle-technologies/electric-cars/bev-phev-range-electric-car.html

Nix

This may be a fine PHEV for some folks. Since YMWV (Your Mileage WILL vary) when it comes to PHEV’s even more than any other type of car, there will be folks that this will work perfectly for.

But Toyota has done so much damage to their brand name among green car enthusiasts that I don’t think they will attract many enthusiasts.

They will have to succeed by courting the mass market, not enthusiasts. I wish them luck.

Absidu

It should be 2 seconds (0-60) faster to be popular, not only range increase.

Nate

I figured they would bump it up to the low 20’s, but still be mixed when going up an uphill grade on the highway (which I do regularly). At 30-35, this would move the PIP from a car I’m not interested in to one I’d consider.

I prefer the Volt drivetrain, but the larger interior space might help make up for that a little. If this means the tax credit is bumped up so it leases lower I wouldn’t rule it out when the Volt lease ends at the end of next year. If money were equal I’d probably go with a gen II Volt or longer range Leaf (or Bolt if it was out). I might be even happier saving a chunk of money and making due with a used Leaf.

Wonder if this will push Ford to update Energi models.

Should be interesting…

Phr3d

ROTFLMAO, it will remain the perfect appliance-mobile as it was originally designed, appealing to buyers for that reason. As stated earlier, if it has AER of x-miles additional, it is only because the exact pack and technology (and R&D) can be shared, not because Toyerta has determined a need to ‘keep up’ – they don’t need to, they sell all of them that they can make, they care Not about EV transportation (and are practically On Record on the issue, but hey, ask any ex-Lexus dealer whose building is now a Tesla showroom how much he likes EVs).

I shudder to think of all the Honda and Toyota PHEVs that will sell like hot-cakes in 2020 . Sure hope Elon shows them the door when they ask to join the Supercharger ‘family’. See ya’ in 5 years.

NorCalEV

The first comment to this post is a perfect first comment.
This is not even as good as the first Volts.
And Mirai is Japanese for Mirage.

Slow clap, indeed.

RedLeafBlueLeaf

I suspect it will have whatever all-electric range is needed to qualify for California HOV stickers during the lifespan of the next gen PiP. Without the HOV sticker benefit they sell very few PiPs.

Minimally qualify, nothing more.

Ambulator

It’s more likely China’s requirements that drive them.

PVH

I have no problem with rather short EV range PHEV, most miles done EV mode (commuting) and still no contraints for the odd 1000 miles across Europe drive. Maybe I am a isolated case but why should my choice of car obliges me to book plane tickets (most of the time several weeks in advance when a family of 5) while a car trip allows to just hop inside it as a last minute decision sometimes just depending on a good weather forecast or a last minute invitation.

Koenigsegg

there is no defending how much of a joke this new prius is

Koenigsegg

LOL

Forever green

This is too little, too late, at this stage in the game.

Hymotion Prius

My 2008 has a 30 mile electric range with a $10k modification in 2009. You would think Toyota could do better than that now.