PSA Drops CHAdeMO And Joins CCS Combo for Future EVs

MAY 28 2016 BY MARK KANE 33

PSA Group presents electrification solutions

PSA Group presents electrification solutions

PSA Cutway

PSA Cutway

PSA brands (Peugeot and Citroën) recently announced a massive push into plug-in vehicles – four new electric and seven new plug-in hybrids cars, scheduled for 2019 – 2021,  Now the question is what standard of fast charging will be utilized.

Previously, all PSA plug-ins used CHAdeMO DC fast charging:

  • in both its Peugeot iOn and Citroën C-Zero (re-badged Mitsubishi i-MiEVs)
  • in light commercial vehicles Peugeot Partner Electric and Citroën Berlingo Electric

But times changes, and more and more manufacturers (especially Euro-based ones) join CCS Combo every year.

PSA calls its new fast charging system “ultra-fast charging“.

PSA says of its new all-electric vehicles, arriving in ~3 years time, that charging to 80% is expected to take about 30 minutes, which is pretty normal by today’s standards;  but we must remember that the new EVs from PSA will be equipped with ~50 kWh battery packs. That would require roughly 100 kW DC power to get the same job done over today’s “city EVs” charging times.

Another curious way PSA is expressing charge times is 12 km/7.5 range replenished in one minute. 15 minutes would be then 180 km (112 miles).

Another defection to CCS doesn’t sound too good for CHAdeMO-backers Nissan and Mitsubishi Nissan.

Categories: Charging, Peugeot / Citroën

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33 Comments on "PSA Drops CHAdeMO And Joins CCS Combo for Future EVs"

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CCS /Combo is the winning standard similar to VHS / BluRay. Nissan is going to have to dump the CHAdeMO standard for all,except Japan.

It is regional standard. It can win all the way in Europe as German government supports it due to local automaker lobbying, but this victory has no effect in Japan or biggest market – China. Effectively you are going from one world DC charging standard (Chademo) to bunch of different regional standards. Not a development I would rejoice.

The CCS promoters that frequent this site always suggest that Nissan must submit to the Borg, and adopt regional standards instead of one worldwide standard that they currently use.

One option that would blow all the others out of the water is a dual DC charge inlet, with worldwide CHAdeMO on the left side (as it is now), and the regional AC/DC port on the right:

1) CCS – Combo 1 in US
2) CCS – Combo 2 in EU
3) GB/T – China

For Japan, maybe a Tesla port!!! (Yes, first the Japanese government would have to get involved in that one!)

The change by such a large company is undeniably big news.

I’ve repeatedly said that the low cost of the CCS format will ultimately cause adoption as the most common standard.

Some Europeans wonder why North America has not adopted the supposedly superior Mennekes standard in the States since there would only be one unused pin, but the retention of the J1772 ‘standard’ remains simply for the reason that it is cheaper, even with the down side of having the 2 incompatible jack formats, and, as you have different TESLA jacks on both sides of the ‘pond’.

CCS quite obviously is being adopted for similar reasoning since you need either a j1772, or a basic Mennekes for the basic car anyway.

How exactly is CCS “low cost”?

Just mentioned it. It only needs 2 additional pins. I was initially in favor of Nissan’s system:

1). J1772 only for base vehicles
2). 3000 watt bigger charger for mid trim.
3). Bigger charger and chademo fast jack for the premium vehicles.

Unfortunately, the world is going toward mass production – and minimal cost.

Surely it is much less expensive to add 2 pins to an existing plastic jack (where you have to, as mentioned, have a 1 or 2 jack to begin with for the ‘level 2’ buyers), than it is to have a huge additional jack in addition to the 1 or 2 standard jack.

As long as someone wins soon, then the EV market wins.

Nobody is going to win any time soon. Everybody will dig up in its own home market and it will stay so for long.

The CHADeMO plug is just ridiculous.

As long as PSA rely on mitsu for the drivetrain technologies, they have little choice but to use chademo. Whilst it might be clunky, chademo has the benefit of being established and widespread thanks to the Leaf and the Miev triplets out there. Whilst it’s crying over spilt milk, bringing in CCS after chademo was already established was a mistake, and I suspect we’ll be stuck with a format war for a long time yet.

In away Chamo might not die out due to Tesla building a adapter for it for their super charging systems. Such as most of the users of the Chamo quick chargers are Teslas so in away as long as there is a adapter for a Chamo charging station there will always be someone using it.

Tesla joined the CCS Combo plug standards group several months ago so the could possibly devolop an adapter plug for it…

For all we know the model 3 might have CCS standard and Super as optional…

Eurpoe has CCS only requiment starting in a couple or several years…

As many times as this gets regurgitated, EU does NOT have CCS “only” law to comply with. In addition, CHAdeMO is an OFFICIAL standard in EU.

What the EU law says is that at a date in the future, future installs must ALSO have CCS. That is already being done, with multi-standard chargers being the norm.

Germany has passed some protectionist laws to protect German designed CCS from competition from Tesla, and they may require Tesla Supercharger stations to actually mount a CCS charger at Supercharger locations (which they are NOT currently doing). Tesla will be regulated as to how much to charge for the CCS charger.

Nissan, Mitsubishi and Kia all use Chademo. The only vehicle that sells in any significant quantity in the US that uses the combo plug is the i3. I know the Chevy Spark and VW E Golf do too but they are rarer than hen’s teeth. The only fully electric car that has sold as well as the Leaf is the Tesla Model S. And guess what, Tesla can use Chademo too with an adaptor. I don’t see Chademo disappearing as quickly as everyone thinks. We did finally get a SAE CCS Combo station in my area, but there’s almost nothing to plug into it. The i3 owners i know all bought the REX and will just use a gallon of gas instead of paying $9.99 for a quick charge. Chevy Spark is only sold in 3 states, mine is not one if them. The VW E Golf is sold here but ive yet to see one in the wild. You know what i do see? Teslas Model S and X and Nissan Leaf. Lots of them. I wouldn’t call it Vhs vs Beta or even Bluray vs HD Dvd. It’s more like cassette tape versus Compact disc. Eventually all cars… Read more »

Isn’t KIA going to CCS?

“Nissan, Mitsubishi and Kia all use Chademo. The only vehicle that sells in any significant quantity in the US that uses the combo plug is the i3. I know the Chevy Spark and VW E Golf do too but they are rarer than hen’s teeth. ”

Isn’t Mitsubishi and Kia more rare than Spark EV?

Kia is already switching to CCS for its future Ioniq BEV. Mitsubishi is basically Nissan now.

So, you got Nissan alone supporting the Chademo at this point.

You got Tesla with its own system and Nissan with Chademo and everyone else on CCS.

Hmm… It won’t be hard to see which standard will win out eventually. Now, once Tesla comes out with CCS adapter, it would be game over for Chademo in the US, IMO.

All we need is all the next generation EVs that comes with CCS.

Tesla with a CCS adapter is interesting. I won’t be surprised if Tesla dramatically expands their network and adds CCS charging capability to their SuperChargers. I’m on record with this left field prediction a couple months ago. I’m sticking to it.

What would be “in it” for Tesla? Nothing that I can see.

The only place that CCS plugs will show up (so far) are in Germany, where it will be required.

That will not happen in the US, EU, or Japan, or most importantly China.

Even with horrible sales lately, Nissan has sold more Leafs than Spark, i3, and E Golf combined in 2016. Chademo is here for a little while.

Until Bolt is here with its CCS standard, then longer range i3, E-Golf and Hyundai Ioniq BEV.

Volume of EVs sold supporting Chademo has always been the only argument in favour of it over CCS, and that argument is quickly disappearing. You had to double check the sales numbers to make that statement, and if you look at trends of Leaf and Soul EV sales vs i3, eGolf, Spark EV, not to mention what’s hitting the market in the next 12 months (improved Focus, improved eGolf, improved i3, Bolt, Ioniq) you’ll realize that this race is already over. 2nd gen Leaf will definitely get CCS alongside a Chademo port for North American and European markets.

(Obviously Chademo will carry on just fine in Japan)

If Mitsubishi is now under Nissan, who else is left that supports CHAdeMO?

Kia and Tesla

Well, I don’t believe KIA can be counted because KIA is connected to Hyundai, and they are going CCS (at least for in North America and Europe). To say Tesla supports… true but its a CHAdeMO adapter. Doesn’t really count IMO. Tesla will most likely make an adapter for any common standard in order to serve their drivers better. Nissan being the controlling partner in Mitsubishi now is really the only one left supporting CHAdeMO all things considered.

All the Leafs on the road will ensure that any independent charging networks will have both CCS and Chademo plugs for a decade at least – it doesn’t add much to the charger price.

Honda may release something too in the future.

Toyota, Honda, Mazda.

With the combo chargers that use both CHAdeMO and CCS I don’t see support for CHAdeMO disappearing overnight in the USA. In Japan it will remain the standard.

However, with most manufacturers signing on to CCS, and the advantages of needing only one plug rather than two, CHAdeMO may be phased out over time. Maybe when the public chargers get upgraded down the road?


The war is over!

Now let’s make l…

Now that we know CCS will be dominant in the future. It is time to get on it with the next generation CCS speed.

CCS stations need at least 100kW if not 150KW in the near future. Time to agree on that by all major CCS members.

CCS is 150-200 kW now and 350 kW in near future.
You can buy 120 kW CCS/Chademo charger now if you are ready to pay for them. It may make no point to do it now, as Tesla still sticks with hostile walled garden approach, and other battery cars capable of 100+ kW sustained charging are still years in the future. Bolt may or may not be capable of it.

It’s nothing new: the decision to switch to CCS at the latest in 2017 for all new cars has been decided in 2011 by the ACEA members:

You quote the CCS promotion group… incorrectly, of course. There is no “switch over”, as much as some seem to think. Here’s the quote from the link you provide:

“From November 18, 2017 onwards, the member states of the European Union must equip their fast charging stations with CCS. They may continue to operate their existing charging infrastructure, but must at least provide CCS (the connector Combo 2 for DC and the connector Type 2 for AC charging) in their expanded or new infrastructure.”

Not exactly a “switch over”, and most sites are already doing this.

Thanks for playing.

And CHAdeMO is still an official EU standard.