Porsche Dealerships In U.S. To Get 350-kW Fast Chargers For Mission E

FEB 28 2018 BY ERIC LOVEDAY 46

Porsche Mission E And 911

Porsche dealerships throughout the U.S. will install fast chargers to support the upcoming Mission E electric car.

Porsche Mission E Alongside Porsche 356

Porsche says all 189 of its U.S. dealership will be equipped with 800-volt, 350-kW fast chargers to support the expected charge capabilities of the Mission E.

Porsche Cars North America CEO Klaus Zellmer stated:

“Charging infrastructure is an extremely important part of the EV experience as a whole.”

The proposed 800-volt chargers could add 250 miles of range to the Mission E in as little as 20 minutes, according to Porsche. A fee structure is being discussed right now. It seems unlikely charging at that high rate will be free, though it could be rolled into a package that’s purchased with the car.

Related – Porsche Exec On Mission E Charging At 800 Volts, Battery Tech, More

Even though fast chargers will be available, Porsche notes most charging is done at home. Quoting Zellmer:

“You have to keep in mind that more than 80% of charging occurs at home.” 

These breakthrough chargers are already in the ground at Porsche’s Experience Center in Atlanta. The 350 kW charging at 800 V is one of the main features of the upcoming all-electric Porsche Mission E.

Image Of 350-kW Porsche Chargers In Germany

The Porsche Mission E is expected to go on sale in 2019. Range is claimed to be 310 miles.

Mission E production is currently set at 20,000 units annually, though Porsche may up that figure if demand warrants.

Source: USA Today

Categories: Charging, Porsche

Tags: , , ,

Leave a Reply

46 Comments on "Porsche Dealerships In U.S. To Get 350-kW Fast Chargers For Mission E"

newest oldest most voted
jim stack

Our local Porsche dealer in Gilbert AZ just has 2 weak 4 kW chargers now. I can’t imagine they will add a 350 kW 800 volt Ultra Fast charger. Too bad there are no cars that can use it if they do.

R.S

That’s probably because no Porsche car can use them right now.

If Porsche says their dealers need those chargers, the dealers will have to build them, or stop being Porsche dealers.

John Doe

+1

Gibber

You are correct, the engineering surveys have been completed at all the North American dealerships and as a Porsche dealer participation is not optional.

Ziv

Fast chargers at dealerships are like candy dispensers at the dentist office.

Empire State

Worse yet, they’re like coin change machines at a bank.

Stimpy

yep, far from an ideal location. They need to be on major routes between metro areas.

zzzzzzzzzz

I imagine they also need to be able to test fast charging when working on the car to diagnose problems. So you need both.

Leaf2012

Here in Norway it seems most dealers intall fast chargers, mainly for their own use. You need them for charging demo-cars between test drives, you need them for testing batteries during service etc.

It is also good to draw potential customers to the dealership so most of these are installed outside the building and available to public too. The first ones installed by Nissan around 2012 were open for everyone at no charge, but as the amount of EV drivers increased they tried different payment options.

Now i think almost all of them are operated by one of the two major fast charging providers, which i believe is a good option.

Stimpy

The charging network is easily the most significant flaw of this car. And probably will be for some time.

DJ

As much as some people like to tout this line I just don’t really see it.

There is one, a whopping one, SC station in all of San Diego county. Flipping one! It shows as having a total of 12 SCs.

A quick look at Plugshare shows a hell of a lot more DCFCs all over SD, even assuming they only have one handle of which many have 2 or more.

Personally I would gladly take more spread out locations and more handles in total even if their charge rate is say half of what a SC puts out just so that I don’t have to drive way out of my way to get some juice.

Having a Tesla you get the benefit of being able to use these (assuming you buy the adapter) and the SC but enough with the “every other car sucks because it doesn’t have Supercharger access” crap already.

Recoil

San Diego country is getting an additional 4 superchargers in the next couple months. Tesla puts superchargers where people need them. The fact that there are 500 chargers within 20 miles of my house doesn’t help me at all when I am trying to get out of town. With large battery cars very few will need these local chargers and no one but Tesla is putting them where people need them when they travel.

R.S

By Q2 2019 VW has to have built 200 highway fast chargers, all of them 350 kW capable plus 500 additional fast chargers elsewhere. And that’s probably around the time when the Mission E finally enters the market.

Since Porsche is owned by VW, which is owned by the family Porsche (and Piech), I am pretty sure VW will do anything to make their own car charge at their own charging stations

Gibber

Porsche will have more Turbocharger stations operational in North America at the first Mission E model launch than Tesla had Superchargers when they launched the Model S.

William

189 Porsche 350kW fast chargers is a start. Now let’s see if Porsche can put some where they can charge 24/7/365. When dealerships close, so do fast chargers, which is why this Fast Charger deployment is pretty much DOA.

zzzzzzzzzz

It was announced a while ago.
https://www.electrifyamerica.com/our-plan

Yes, it will happen on schedule, because it is forced by court :/

(⌐■_■) Trollnonymous

So you’re saying the chargers they will put at their Porsche stealerships are considered part of the VW fine?!?!?!?!?

I sure hope not, it’s Bull$h1t if it is.

R.S

I don’t think so, since they need to be publicly accessible and be operated by electrify America.

Putting them on Porsche dealerships should be considered as cheating, IMO.

zzzzzzzzzz

Trollnonymous:
“considered part of the VW fine”

No, I don’t think so. I think site selection is part of the approval process and placing it just in dealerships would not fly. At least not in California. Neither it would be good for selling their own battery cars.

“Community-based charging station sites will be built in workplaces, retail (shopping centers, restaurants, etc.), multifamily residential locations and municipal lots and garages, as well as high-speed community depots that will feature fast EV charging at speeds of up 150kW compared with today’s peak of 50kW.
Highway sites will be located along high-traffic corridors between metropolitan areas, including two cross-country routes, and will include between four and ten 150kW and 350kW individual DC fast chargers at each location before June 2019.
These sites will be located no more than ~120 miles apart and on average just 70 miles apart. Many shorter range EVs will benefit from 50kW DC fast charging on the Electrify America highway network, including any CHAdeMO equipped vehicles.”

Bill Howland

Hummm they talk about 4 – 10 150-350 kw chargers – except none in NY State.

Be interesting to see if they really do it at the local Porsche dealer…. Right now they have that MAMMOTH (3 kw maybe) docking station on the side of the building.

If they are going to add one L2 docking station to the one they have plus 2 (!!!!) 350 kw chargers – that will be something indeed to behold. (If they make it look like the above picture that is).

Somehow I look a bit cross-eyed at some of this… The STUPENDOUS charging facility they have at the local VW dealership is one of the ‘occasional charging bricks’ (from the trunk of the car) dressed up in a fancy painted cardboard shoe box and that is how they demonstrate charging the car at the fancy dealership.

HVACman

Prediction: This will not happen. This sounds like a feel-good management statement not-yet-vetted by Porsche’s in-house engineers.

I doubt Porsche’s engineers have surveyed all Porsche dealers’ locations to verify that the local electrical infrastructure can actually support sufficient electrical services in all locations. It would have to be a 480 V/3 phase/500 amp service for just one charger. That is a huge single-point load for a dealer.

I’ve been involved in the design and construction of quite a few new auto dealership facilities. Many dealers are in dedicated auto mall subdivisions where the main electrical loads are the dealer lot lighting systems and showroom HVAC. The utility infrastructure serving the auto mall typically was installed to provide that load, not massive charger loads.

Also, the installed cost per dealer will be very high. Well over $100K/station installed.

It makes zero economic or logistical sense to install them at dealers. Especially for a “vanity” location that has nothing to do with actual long-distance travel patterns.

The money would be much-better spent sponsoring high-kW CCS charge stations installed and operated by 3rd parties, optimally-located for both electrical service and charging. Hopefully, reason will prevail.

Someone out there

So they’ll have to add a battery buffer then. It’s doable.

HVACman

There is a difference between “doable” and “viable”. A 350 kW battery-supplemented charge-station? Assume the dealer can install a 100 kW-capable electrical service with 500-kWh of supplemental batteries (& adding $75K additional cost). Five vehicles pull in within 2 hours (the whole reason for ultra-fast-charge is to get them filled and back on the road and the next one hooked up fast) and use up the battery. So now it takes 5 hours for the station battery to re-fill up before anyone else can re-charge at 350 kW rate. Does this make sense? The whole purpose of ultra-fast charging is to have it available WHEN YOU NEED IT.

The mantra for long-term successful DCFC implementation is: location, location, location. And dealer lots frequently won’t be that location.

Just follow Tesla’s model. Superchargers are strategically-located along main traffic arteries where they will be most-used and can be cost-effectively installed with adequate electrical service requiring minimal battery buffer. Not necessarily where Tesla’s stores or service centers are.

Someone out there

Yes it does make sense. Porsche is promising their customers a fast charge. They are not guaranteeing 5 fast charges within 2 hours. There will always be at least theoretical situations where performance is limited.

Leaf2012

A 350 kW transformer is a “small” transformer, it only pulls about 10 Amps from a 22 kV medium voltage network. Its the same size as we have for our office building where a couple hundred people work.

Bill Howland

Yes, all sizes are relative in that you will always find something bigger or smaller.

If the above ‘Picture’ is representative, and each “Porsche” dealership will finally have 2 Level 2 docking stations plus (2) 350 kw dispensers, almost all dealerships will have to have a service upgrade. For sake of argument, lets say they do this.

Now, after many Nissan Dealerships have received a few electric bills, they have limited their ’25 and 50′ kw fast chargers to 11 kw by software adjusting the limitation in the units.

Assuming the green eye shade people at the Porsche dealership feel the same pressure to ‘Make the Numbers’ each month – how many of these dual – 350 kw chargers will also be limited to 11 kw after a few electric bills?

Many utilities in this service range maintain a ‘demand contracted for’ charge. If the dealerships are smart they will negotiate with Porsche to lump THAT charge in with the initial construction costing.

John Doe

In Norway, the utility companies are obligated to install what is needed by the customer. In some cases the customers have to cover some of the cost. The government will normally cover those costs for the company..at least most of it.

Tummy

Do you know the crazy margins on Porsches? $100k is approximately the profit from 6 cars.

Texas FFE

Over 1,000 Chevrolet dealerships were supposed to buy and install 24 kW chargers to get certified to sell and service the Bolt EV. Even though the dealerships purchased those chargers most of those chargers are still sitting on the shop floor. I figure Porsche is also going to have a lot trouble getting dealers to install these 350 kW chargers.

Eric Cote

“most of those chargers are still sitting on the shop floor.”

How many is “most”… Where’s the data for that? Link?

CCIE

While I don’t have any data, or believe any is available to public, I tend to agree that most of the Chevy dealers have their 24kw CCS units sitting in a closet or mounted in an inaccessible location. In CT, a CARB state, most dealers sell Volts and Bolts, but only three that I know of have installed the 24kw chargers for public use. Easy enough to check PlugShare…

GM should have mandated that the dealers install them outside for public use by the end of 2017.

Bill Howland

If the purpose of the ‘shop’ CCS BOLT ev charger was merely to fully test the operability of the CCS fast charging port – there are really cheap 6 kw Chinese CCS portable units that could do the testing.

I’m sure that is the model my dealer would buy if he could get away with it.

What surprizes me is my dealer just installed an ADDITIONAL 40 ampere Bosch docking station (in addition to the old 32 ampere Leviton) on the outside of the building – and there was absolutely no GM mandate that he do so).

CarolinaSparkEV

“there are really cheap 6 kw Chinese CCS portable units ”

I have never heard of these, please elaborate.

John Doe

They have to install, or Porsche will not let them sell cars.

It is not the dealers choise to make.

Usually Porsche (or other car brands) will cover some, or all the cost.

earl colby pottinger

If true then no Porsche dealer will have an excuse that the demo Mission-E is not fully charged for a demo ride.

(⌐■_■) Trollnonymous

CCS 2.0 i’m guessing.

Tom S

Chargers at the dealer is low hanging fruit and a necessary demonstrator for new customers. They don’t actually expect that many people to use them day to day.

Mike A

Be nice to get my car back serviced AND charged.
Just saying.

Brian

I wish the car looked more like the concept, the black car looks like a 1st Gen Panamera. Current Model S looks be me.

Steven Loveday

I believe the black car is a test mule that Motor1 secured spy shots of. As far as I know, those were actually modified Panameras with the Mission E drivetrains. Hopefully, the production version will be much more like the concept. Otherwise, they may as well just make a fully electric Panamera.

jim seko

A friend of mine leased a 2012 Nissan Leaf. He had several bad experiences using the fast chargers at Nissan dealerships. I was with him on two of these occasions. In both of these cases, the DC fast chargers were throwing overheating errors. I’m a retired EE and I spotted the root cause of the problem right away. These DC fast chargers have an air intake, clearly visible, with a wire mesh screen to filter out dust and dirt. This filter was completely clogged. We talked to both sales and service people about the problem, which could easily be fixed in less than five minutes but nobody seemed interested in servicing the DC fast charger. This was not an isolated incident. I remember reading on Leaf forums that this problem was widespread. Franchise dealerships are the absolutely the worst possible place to sell electric vehicles and always will be.

Bill Howland

Plus I forget where I read it but apparently many Nissan dealerships are limiting the peak charging rate of the 25 or 50 ‘kw’ units to 11 kw to save on the electric bill

Didier

I don’t know for the US, but in France dealerships are far from being the best places to stop charging. Nothing to do around, eg no restaurants, etc. And even worst, most chargers installed at dealerships are only available at business hours because they are installed on a parking closed during the night.

Bill Howland

Just out of curiosity, does anyone know the home charging rate of these “Mission – E’s”?

I assume for Europe the rate will be 22 kw.

Just wondering if they will have a somewhat quick ‘L2’ rate for North America.

Consumer X

Local Audi dealers in a major city do lock their gates when they’re closed. Along with Porsche. GM has dealers installing chargers inside service doors. Nissan dealers I have seen don’t even bother installing CHAdeMO,in addition to also locking their gate. IF manufacturers are serious about selling EVs,not just compliance cars.Their dealers should have their (brand) certification pulled if customers can’t charge. Principles will lose money, even the multi store,multi brand owners.100% correct when drivers say delaers are part of the charger infrastructure problem. Cannot wait for companies like BYD , of course Tesla to continue building their product lines out,adding infrastructure. One can understand why Tesla built proprietary connectors for their SC. Why support the legacy manufacturer on their dime.

Rwolf01

Has anyone seen a demo of any car charging at 350kw anywhere? Over what kind of conditions can the car take that much power? From 10-80% would be nice. But if it only works from 30-35% when the battery and ambient temperature are between 50 and 60 degrees F, then it is not very useful….