Norwegian Tesla Model S Owners Rush To Switch To P85D

OCT 14 2014 BY MARK KANE 72

Tesla Model S P85D

Tesla Model S P85D

Tesla Model S Delivery Norway - Single Day of Deliveries

Tesla Model S in Norway

After Tesla Motors released the Model S P85D version, dual-motor all-wheel-drive (along with AWD on ‘standard’ 60 kWh and 85 kWh cars), the number of used Model S sedans offered for sale in Norway went through the roof.

VG is asking, is this a sign of panic? The typical number of 20 used Model S ads first tripled to 60, then doubled to almost 150, and with more then 3,500 Model S sold only this year in Norway, we expect this number of used Model S EVs to go even higher.

But why and what really happened? Well, Norway is a country where AWD cars always sell in high volume. AWD cars typically command 30% of the market there.

With Tesla’s new AWD version unveiled, many Norwegian Model S owners are looking to dump their RWD Model S EVS as quickly as possible before the used market gets flooded and prices drop.

So, the rush is on in Norway to get rid of the RWD Model S in favor of the all-new AWD 60D, 85D and the range-topping beast – the P85D.

Tesla Model S P85D

Tesla Model S P85D

Source: VG

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72 Comments on "Norwegian Tesla Model S Owners Rush To Switch To P85D"

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The 85D is the range topping beast.
The P85D is the Performance beast.
The 60D is now the Best Buy.

I don’t know if I would say 60D is a better buy than the 85D. You will have to add the Supercharger cost to the 60D or it will be a really bad buy for most people. Then I think range wise that 85D is worth the extra money, and becomes the best buy.

Dr. Kenneth Noisewater

Given the value for the premium between 60 and 85, unless you absolutely can’t get the cash for whatever reason, you’d be crazy not to get the 85. Warranty upgrade, ‘free’ Supercharging, and significant range boost. I reckon the 85 will hold a higher %age of its value as well, so the best 60s will be the 3ish year old CPOs.

Does Tesla offer a buy back guarantee price in Norway, and if so, what are the implications for their finances?

If it does not, what are the likely losses for Tesla owners if the market is flooded?

My guess is that the buyback guarantee would be there, if Tesla has that program in Norway. If not, or if they sell on their own, the losses will probably be substantial…but then, with the continued demand by those who can’t/didn’t want to buy the Model S new will probably be very interested in these used vehicles. For that reason alone, I doubt that Tesla will take a loss on their certified used program for every used RWD Model S they sell.

Hmm, everything is a sign of imminent disaster for Tesla in the eyes of davemart. Bit of an obsession really isn’t it.

Have you considered that it’s actually pretty logical that as the numbers of a certain model increase in a market that the numbers on the used market will increase as well?

…and that there is no doubt plenty of Norwegians motorists out there that can’t afford a new Model S but would be very happy with a used one once prices come down to more reasonable levels?

Move on, nothing to see here really.

Its good of you as always to be prepared to instruct people, Chris.

However surprising it may be to you, they are perfectly able to form their own judgements on what is worth discussing.

It seems possible that some will be interested in how much they are likely to get for their cars when they come to sell.

Like you instruct people that Tesla is going nowhere and that hydrogen is the future day after day on this forum you mean? Guess we all like to instruct.

My first thought was all these Norwegians are selling their MS to buy Toyota hydrogen bombs, I mean cars. DM has influenced me no doubt…

Very funny,i love your sense of humor ! Hahaha

If you want to make direct claims for something that you imagine that I have said, have the guts to either provide direct quotes or withdraw.

That will present you with some difficulty, as I have claimed neither, simply that I don’t think hydrogen should be dismissed, and that I am doubtful of Tesla’s plan.

So put up, or shut up.

You wild allegations and inability to accept any divergence from your own opinions are absurd, and not adult behaviour.

Direct quotes please.

What you are asking for (from Chris O)can be refuted by you over and over again (because you are very smart and clever)but those of us here that know the underlying reason for you presence on this forum are offended. Thats all, no biggie really. I’ve got more important issues to consider most of the time anyway.

Paranoia does that to you.

All paranoids know everyone’s ‘real’ motivations.

Lay off the weed.

You evidently have not noticed but there is nothing illegal in any of the positions which you fantasise that I ‘really’ hold, and so if that was what I thought I would just say so.

Why not?

Paranoid? Weed? Illegal? Whatever DM, I still hold my position.

My understanding is the buyback guarantee financing was only in the US with the banking partners listed on Tesla’s website. I don’t know the total number of vehicles in the buyback program, but I don’t think it is as high as many people think, 10k tops. Many people got better financing rates through credit unions, so gave up the buyback guarantee.

The buyback is only for 3 years after purchase. It is a one time option, kind of like at lease end. If people want to upgrade earlier, there is no guarantee. It is really only a safety net for people that stretched to afford the car.

But we will see, Tesla could take a big hit on it. $10k loss on 10k vehicles would be $100 million. That would hurt, but not bankrupt, the company.

The buyback guarantee has just been extended to the UK.

At 150 sales in September one of the two biggest months for sales that is not of much significance other than for the few involved however.

Norwegian sales are far more significant.

Welcome to the real world.

The only owners with “losses” are the idiots that thought electric cars wouldn’t get better.

As for Tesla and their RVG, worst case for them is installing autopilot on cars they buy back, and then selling for a healthy profit (no other used cars have such advanced features). But $40-50k used Teslas will do fine next to these new dual motor cars. The range, room, performance, and looks all destroy that of the i3, B-class, etc.

The real competition for Tesla’s resale value is the Model 3 and Chevy’s Sonic EV.

Dr. Kenneth Noisewater

Sonic EV is such a joke. Newsflash GM: you shoulda gone with Impala… Or better yet, Buick Enclave..

The prices for the used Teslas in Norway are still way higher than they should be. So the depriciation is way less than you would expect it to be.

So there is still a long way before the used Tesla market in Norway gets “normalized”. For a long time they charged basically the same for a used Tesla as a new Tesla.
Which would be totally crazy for an ICE.

The residual value guarantee was originally exercisable between 36 and 39 months after delivery. Tesla may make accommodations to stimulate D sales.

No buy back, to my knowledge, anywhere but the U.S. currently, but stay tuned the disk is warping…things change. You could also just look it up. My best guess.

Was there ever a time anyone thought ANY market would be flooded by Tesla product? It’s just more sales for them, as folks scramble to get the latest and greatest. Not a bad problem for Tesla to have at all…

Well…DUH!! Just delete the word “Norwegian” from the headline, because it will be the same globally.

Well, Norway is better than the rest. That’s about it!

A display of Norwegian chauvinism?!

You see something new everyday I guess.

Move to NW Oregon. A few Teslas and Lots Norwegian Pride. Uff Da, y’all.

Hey cheer up. THere is only one way to compete with Norwegians – to become better, or maybe alot better for some maybe.

Don’t go sour and show your envy. Just start to strive to become better than the rest!

I keep hoping that a flood of American Model S drivers sell their Model S cars to upgrade to a P85D so I can pick up a used one but I don’t see them flooding the market.

True. Both Ebay and TMC picked up about a dozen P’s and P+’s, in just a couple days. The U.S. ‘S’ market looks almost the same as before. LOTS of buzz about people changing their orders, and Tesla playing nice.

I can see it being a problem unto itself, if too many opt for the February roll-out, and the Q4 numbers fall into doubt. Could lead to a premature delivery of the “D”.

You mean a preemie?

I noted 51 for sale on cars dot com the day of the event. There are 73 listed now (40% increase!). That is in the entire country, so still tiny numbers. Compare that to 900 used Volts for sale.

Strangely there is one dealership in Dallas that has 13 Model S for sale all of a sudden. Might have to make a trip north…

But the prices are crazy. The cheapest one is a Model S base for $69,995 . . . that is the same price as a new one except you won’t get the tax-credit. What’s the point of buying used then?

Nope, a new S60 can easily go over $100K with just some basic options added. Very few people ever choose the most basic S60.

I wouldn’t say easily. I just configured an S60 with all options (except an EVSE and a second set of winter wheels/tires) and it came to $101,720 before the tax credit. Most of the S60s that have been listed were configurations in the $80k – $85k MSRP.

It’s always sunny and bright and Norway, right? 😛

If I was a Norwegian, I’d get all wheel drive, end of story. I’m not that rich, so I’d have to ICE it to be honest, with a Subaru.

The amount of taxes on an ICE in Norway are what make EVs so appealing — they don’t have to pay the taxes. Your Subaru Outback would likely cost as much as a Model S in Norway.

The cheapest Subaru Outback cost $10k more than the cheapest Tesla in Norway. 🙂

Yeesh! OK. Looks like I take mass transit if I’m there. 😛

If if was all about AWD, then why didn’t these same ppl dump their Model S’s for the Model X?

Because Model X isn’t well suited for snowfall.

Because you will let your falcon wings wide open? You wont scrape off the snow as you do for regular doors?
In a storm, snow gets in, no matter the doors.

Well, the Model X is quite abit higher than Model S or any standard car, and you have to brush off the snow atleast a foot on the roof, so you would need a good brush. Plus, in some circumstances the snow turns to ice on the top of a car which could make it hard to even open the falcon door that need to go up. And when it is windy there is a big risk to have snow blow directly from the roof and fall into the car when the door is open. You will probably encounter alot of problems involving falcon wing doors and snow, especially when you have kids.

I am longing to see some winter owner reviews of the Model X when it is out though. I hope they will prove me wrong, but i doubt it.

Dr. Kenneth Noisewater

Because Model X doesn’t exist yet?

Indeed. I met a guy with a Model X reservation who got impatient and bought a P85. He’s now looking into trading to get a D.

“If if was all about AWD, then why didn’t these same ppl dump their Model S’s for the Model X?”

Many did/will. A huge percentage of people on Tesla forums have talked about dumping the RWD S for the AWD X.

That said, the AWD S may sell competitively compared to the AWD X in winter locations depending on price, those Falcon Doors, and the solution Tesla comes up for Roof storage.

I’m not sure which I’d buy… the Tesla X with normal doors or the Tesla SD. it’s a toss up depending on the price differential.

But I’d probably choose the Tesla SD over the Tesla X with those Falcon Doors. I’d have to see a presentation where the model X is sitting outside after a 6-12 inch snowstorm, and then a person comes and tries to wipe all the snow off the top of the car and then open those doors without a ton of snow falling into the car.

I think sales figures will be
Tesla X > Tesla SD >> Tesla S

Eventually it’ll be
Model III >>>> Tesla X > Tesla SD > Tesla S

Maybe you have no experience with snow. I live in a very snowy country and when it snows we all brush all the roof of ours cars to prevent the snow from falling on the rear window. It takes only one minute… It will be no different with falcon wing doors… Unless you are a kind of moron that do not think to remove the white stuff on your door openings…

Dude, I live in Minnesota. Any Minnesotan can tell you that even when you wipe the snow off the top of the car there is a very thin layer of snow that simply won’t come off unless you have a half an hour and a pressure washer with hot water. I have an SUV with normal doors (Lexus RX330). I wipe the snow off of the top to the best of my ability. Yet when I open my door a very small amount of fine snow remains in the seam at the top of the door and it falls into my car. Luckily it falls mainly on the floorboard where you step into the car and only a tiny amount lands on the lateral aspect of the driver’s seat and I just wipe the snow off with my hand. The falcon doors have 2 door seams, each of which go all the way into the middle of the roof. Any snow that is anywhere along those seams will fall into the middle of the car. As I said: I’ll keep an open mind, and wait for the big Tesla Announcement where they show a person opening the falcon doors during… Read more »

On Long Island, people typically don’t clear the snow off their car roofs, resulting in large masses of the stuff flying into the windshield of any trailing cars when getting up to speed. And the self-centered rhetoric flies too: “Why should I care about the guy in the car behind me?” “Why is that guy in front of me being such an … ?”

Thankfully I don’t deal with the snow (so maybe this is a dumb idea), but what about preheating?

The base layer would liquify and the rest would just slide off with light pressure. They would just need to add some heating elements into the roof glass like most rear windows have. Activate it from your phone 10 minutes before heading out to the car.

Actually Josh, that just might be the best idea I’ve heard, especially if the front and back of the falcon doors overlap the roof of the car by 1-2 inches.

My first thought was, “nah, it’ll never work” but the more I think about it… it just might be a great solution.

Partially melted wet snow may be easier to move off the car compared to the light and fluffy stuff. The wetter stuff clumps together so it could all just slide off… whereas the dry fluffy stuff scatters all over (it’s kind of hard to explain). You’d still have to plan ahead to warm up the car, but that’s no biggie at all especially since it’ll warm up the car too and help with the windshield and back window.

You’d lose a little range… but with an AER of 200-300+ miles it’s worth it.

Thanks for having a constructive solution!

Thanks for the feedback.

Hopefully Tesla will have done plenty of winter testing before production started. I think having Models S D now gives customers a safer option if they are unsure of the new Falcon doors.

Growing up in South Florida, my biggest fear is heavy sideways rain. If the doors open and close slow, the car will be flooded before people get in and out. I am hoping the doors move a speeds like the Enterprise. Or at least can be operated manually to speed it up.

because they are not available yet? is this a trick question?

Northerners have long begged for AWD and screamed that AWD would be a major hit. It’s literally a no-brainer in any place with “real” winter. Only people in places without a real winter thought otherwise.

It’s important that Tesla has the SD coming soon. Without it they may have lost sales to the Porsche Cayenne PHEV from people who don’t want to/can’t wait the 1-2 years it’ll take for the model X. It’s also good because it brings demand forward that can be filled until the X finally gets here.

In addition, the SD gives Northerners the ability to drive an AWD Tesla without the Falcon Doors which are problematic in winter.

I wonder how many people will cancel their reservation for the X to use for the SD instead? (In the end these cancellations are also good for Tesla because it brings demand forward and lowers the X backlog, which they want lowered)

Northerners have also been waiting a long time for superchargers. The hardware for MA’s first two stations was just installed.

Could it be that Tesla’s strategic plan was to time charging and AWD, together?

Not a bad thought.

Sounds rather obvious that as numbers of a certain model increase in a market that the numbers on the used market will increase as well, regardless of new models.

I bet those falcon doors are keeping Tesla engineers up at night, trying to figure out how to keep all that snow from falling into the back seat. And then, there’s the rain.

Seems like double hinged doors would be difficult to keep aligned perfectly with rest of the body work as the hinges start to wear out.

I don’t see way to put on a standard car carrier on the Model X. And, there appears to be no easy way to carry skis. Since the Norwegians are so crazy about skiing, I bet they won’t be very happy at all if it turns out there’s no way to carry skis on the Model X.

But, Elon wanted Falcon doors …..

That almost sounds as though you are doubting the Supreme Genius, and the infallibility of all his works.

Unacceptable, we hear.

MXD √ !!

I wish Tesla (and other EV manufacturers) would stay up late at night thinking about winter. Period.

Sometimes I think that the only reason we Northerners got an AWD Tesla is because the AWD verson goes 0-60 faster than the RWD version! in other words, did we only get AWD because it makes Californians in LA/SF happier? (Ok I jest, they are starting to consider places other than SF/LA)

Many snow people will get the Falcon doors and just grin and bear the snow that falls into the car and minimize the issue. I’ve seen some interesting workarounds to the Ski problem

The hardest to solve issue is the European garage problem. Standard clearance for European garages in many major cities is under 1.9m. (about 74.5 inches, or 6 ft 2.5). People have estimated the model X height to be 68 inches or so, and 79.5 inches with doors all the way open. Elon talked about limiting how high they go… but can the doors open enough while rising only 6.5 inches?

Are you talking parking garage or residential? I personally would prefer the X did not have the falcon doors. I hope they have the X tow-hitch ready at launch, because bikes, skis etc will have to go there.

Parking garages.
In Paris the typical parking garage has 1.9m clearance. The shortest I remember was 1.6m. But 1.8-1.9m is pretty standard.

Here’s an example, a big garage right by the Louvre and the Centre Pompidou (modern art museum). the first link is a parking website detailing the space. (“hauteur” means “clearance”) The second link is the actual picture. you can see the ceiling is maybe 4-5 inches above the top of the SUV.

The Falcon door debate reminds me of the door handle debate on the Model S.

I have my doubts on how the doors will perform in weather (heavy rain in my experience), but judgement should be reserved until the final production is released.

For comparison, how do powered minivan doors do in heavy snow or rain?

There’s an AWD Tesla, because they have finally succeeded in making the system good enough, not because they haven’t been trying. The AWD luxury segment is large.

Many owners have already said, the Model S has already good handling on winter roads, so I expect the profit of AWD isn’t really worth the extra money. The electronic stabilisation systems are doing a good job with single drive and the wish of must having AWD is just an outdated urban myth from the days, when cars drive systems worked as pure dumb mechanic systems.

You couldn’t be more wrong. Tesla RWD performs better than bad FWD cars and other RWD cars and *almost* as good as a good FWD car. It is nowhere near AWD cars.

Just a few days ago I linked Tesla YouTube videos of snow performance. Mediocre. Passable. But nothing special.

My partner at work has a Tesla. It’s good on plowed winter roads and in mild storms.

Read the Tesla boards. People had mixed results. In general better than they feared but worse than they hoped. AWD is huge

Forget about the Falcon doors. Here’s the real way to fix the door problem. Disappearing doors…

Check out this snappy solution. A friend sent this to me about 2 or 3 years ago. Amazing…

That’s deep, really inventive.
Do you think this could be applied to a Model S or a Model X since the space under the car is already occupied by the battery?

Pruismatic right about batteries for Tesla cars. Doors that hide under the car would block easy access to the batteries.

Still…it’s kind of a nifty ides, It probably adds a lot of expense even if it was designed into the car from the ground up.

It’s the kind of thing you might find in luxury cars, like the crazy scissor doors on the BMWi8 or the gull wing doors from Mercedes or De Lorean.

To me, the door that slides under the car is the cleverest of these off the wall door designs. Gull wing doors have been around since the 1950s.

Falcon wing doors: in a big storm, there is often a large horizontal wind component, so if the wind and rain is blowing hard from the one side, maybe it’s just easier to get in from the other side; or, driver gets in and then repositions the car so as to block the wind from the desired side/Falcon Wing Door access for passengers?

Is this not unlike squeezing into a tight spot? You let out you passenger, then tuck the car in. (Shoehorn it in!)

I think the snow problems are overblown. If you get a foot of snow on top you just sweep it off, just like you do with a regular vehicle. Sure you are not going to get into every nook and cranny.
I always thought the height problem would be mostly just a convenience thing where you load or unload not in the garage. Problem solved.
I think it will be a hit certain segment of the population which to this point has been under-served by Tesla. Expanding their product appeal, as the awd ‘D’, to different market segments.

I think Tesla vehicles are/will be like cell phones: frequent upgrades leading to the majority of the customers knowing they want to upgrade.