Nissan Shows How To Launch An EV Right, Almost 4,000 LEAF Sales In Debut Month For Japan

1 week ago by Mark Kane 154

Nissan LEAF sales in Japan – October 2017

The new 2018 Nissan LEAF arrived last month in Japan.  The refreshed 150 mile/241 km EV (locally rated at an impossible 400 km/249 miles) first when on sale domestically on October 1st, and demand was strong to say the least.  Better still, Nissan knows what to do with demand – fill it!

What is “simply amazing” is how Nissan shows it in September, then sells the pants off it in October

For October, the LEAF set a new all-time sales record at 3,629! Making the LEAF the 19th best selling car in Japan for the month (a sale in Japan is noted when an order is completed by the factory).

In other words, Nissan may not have the very best EV out there (we’d really like to see that ~200 mile, affordable CUV already), but Nissan knows how to build EVs right…there was no showing off the vehicle and then teasing it for the next 2 years, no limited production at launch and a gradual roll-out over a year, no production “bottlenecks” because it had not put in the work yet, no building capacity for only a token amount.

…but rather Nissan announced the vehicle to the world only once volume production was already coming off the line (in this case from Nissan’s Oppama, Japan assembly facility), and took just 26 days from the model’s global debut (September 5th) to hit the first customer’s driveway.

Refreshing.

For the month, LEAF sales in Japan increased by 607% over the year prior, and shot the YTD number to 12,707; so we expect that 2017 will be the best year of LEAF sales ever.  Since December 2010, Nissan has delivered more than 85,000 LEAFs in Japan.

Nissan has said it expects to sell (“conservatively”) upwards of 150,000 copies of the new LEAF per year (3x historical norms for the 1st generation).  It would appear the assembly of that many vehicles won’t be a problem – now to see if demand will be as strong.

Production of the new LEAF has now begun in Nissan’s Smyrna, TN plant, and also in the company’s Sunderland, UK plant (with China to follow).  First deliveries are expected in the US and Europe in about 8 weeks.

An even longer range LEAF (~60 kWh/225+ mile range) will debut as a 2019 model year EV next year, as well as an all-electric utility vehicle and an all-electric sedan by 2019.

Nissan LEAF sales in Japan – October 2017

Nissan LEAF sales in Japan – October 2017

2018 Nissan LEAF in Japan

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154 responses to "Nissan Shows How To Launch An EV Right, Almost 4,000 LEAF Sales In Debut Month For Japan"

  1. Alan says:

    I like the subtle dig !

    Gooooooooo Nissan !

    1. L'amata says:

      Yea nice Little DIG THIS! The Model 3 Is an entire NEW car from the ground Up & a Real Car ! ….. This little P O S is a RE- HASHED Leaf Cartoon Car with new body panels Only, so there was Very little to do here. Not Much Re-Tooling & re-working Involved. Just changed a few little things & Isn’t it Wonderful!!…lol…….

      1. zzzzzzzzzz says:

        Tesla fanboys are pathetic. Never stop bashing every EV without Tesla badge. They should go lick Musk shoes.

        1. Lawrence says:

          Only a Tesla fanboy would lash out like that from a subtle zing. Resembles a little boy crying on the playground after being taunted.

        2. Bryan says:

          Well, I am what most of my friends call a fanboy as you put it. However, both the article and the fanboy as you put are correct. Nissan has done it right. Announce and then deliver. You have it right that there really wasn’t much to change from the Gen 1 to Gen 2 versions. Bottom line neither point is all that important. People have a longer range EV and apparently that is good enough. I have sat in one and snooped in all the crevasses and it is a much better car than the Gen 1 Leaf. I currently lease a Leaf and I think it is a very ugly car. I think the Gen 2 is much nicer on the eyes. I wouldn’t buy either one of them. No charging infrastructure so I can’t drive across country. This is the same problem I have with the Bolt. However, I like the Bolt a lot better than the Gen 1 Leaf and in many respects the Gen 2 as well.

          Bottom line I want my Model 3 it meets all of my requirements and it even looks nice. If charging was equal on all three I would have a Bolt in my driveway now. In view of that I will wait for my Model 3.

          1. Peter says:

            There are Some Leaf fanboys out there too.
            But you are totally right.
            Leaf has a much easier way to go. But we still wish them all the best.
            Next hot selling BEV is the German Sion to come 2019.
            Price €20.000 before subsidies.
            This BEV will sell more then they can produce.

          2. menorman says:

            No charging infrastructure for Bolt or Leaf? That’s becoming increasingly less true by the week.

            1. Weatherman says:

              Not in parts of the south. Same handful of charging stations in my area that we’ve had for the 2 years I’ve had my LEAF. Still love it, but the (lack of) infrastructure is a real issue in red states.

      2. JayTee says:

        The Leaf will easily outsell the M3 in 2018.

        1. Someone out there says:

          I think so too. I believe Tesla will continue to have issues for at least 6 months and even after that they will underperform as they always have. A lot of people will get fed up waiting for the 3 and will go with the competition instead. I am also not convinced that the stripped down prototype look of the model 3 will attract many customers in the end.

          1. antrik says:

            Most of these people knew when they signed up that they would be waiting at least 1.5 – 2 years — I doubt any significant number of them will get fed up because of a few months delay, that isn’t even really unexpected.

            As for going to the competition, the problem is that unfortunately there still *is* no serious competition, offering anything near the same value for money. This will hopefully change before the end of the decade, but we just aren’t there yet.

            1. springer says:

              Time waiting is one thing, price is another. Many people who signed up for Tesla Model 3 are not super wealthy people who bought Model S/X at $100K or above. The fact that $35K Model 3 will not be available for long long time, not to mention Tesla will run out of fed tax credit soon (or it will disappear entirely by end of 2017). This will make many people re-consider if they can actually afford a $45K or $50K Model 3 when it comes to their turn in the line with no tax rebates, and other auto giants offering so many good alternatives.

          2. Peter says:

            Well I hope you are wrong.

            I have two model S cars and have made reservations for two model 3 cars.
            Tesla is so worth waiting for. Still many years ahead of competition.

        2. Ziv says:

          The Leaf is a mediocre car with limited range and will remain range poor for nearly a year. They will be lucky to sell 30,000 Leafs in the US next year. Obviously, their world sales will be much stronger.

          The Model 3 is an attractive, well engineered car with the Tesla buzz and will probably sell sell nearly 100,000 versions in the US next year even if Tesla can’t ramp production up as they had hoped. The Leaf may actually outsell the 3 worldwide in 2018, but not by much and it doesn’t have a chance of doing so if Tesla gets their act together on production. And I give Tesla a 70/30 chance of building significantly more than 100,000 3’s next year. I really think that this 3-4 month setback will be the worst of what the 3 will see. Tesla managed to get around the worst aspects of the X rollout and they are selling the X in decent numbers now with reasonable reliability.

          1. Gibber says:

            “They will be lucky to sell 30,000 Leafs in the US next year”
            Would you care to make a wager on that? Say one that increases your pay out to me for every 5,000 LEAFs Nissan sells over your 30,000 target?

            1. Peter says:

              I hope Leaf sells 100.000 in US only next year. And another 200.000 Leafs worldwide.
              But I don’t think that they can produce that amount yet.
              When price is at $ 25.000 in 2019 they will probably sell 500.000 Leafs a year.

            2. Ziv says:

              I would take that bet in a rush if we knew each other enough to trust that the other would pay off when they lost. LOL!

              The Leaf sold 30,200 in 2014 and hasn’t come close since. The name and the rep are tired. Most of the year it will be the shorter ranged option of the big 3, Tesla 3, Chevy Bolt and the Nissan Leaf. Plus it will have the Volt and the PriPrime sniping away from the bottom.

              The Leaf will sell more overseas than it does in the US, but it won’t come close to the 3 and it probably won’t beat the Bolt either. It is a better can now, but it still isn’t all that. 200 miles of AER and thermal management would help, but this dog won’t hunt.

      3. Rhaman68 says:

        I wonder what triggered your rant! You have a chip up somewhere! Nissan has a car out for sale. That is the message. Take a chill pill, dude! My 2011 Leaf has had zero issues and takes me where I need to go!! I elected to buy a new battery so I can keep the car 10 more years!

        1. Peter says:

          That is the right spirit.
          I have a 2008 Prius that I added a extra 4kW batteries and a new BMS chip works great.
          I also have 2 model S cars also great. But the dealbreaker is a BEV at $20.000 and two years from now we will see that.

      4. Rangerider says:

        Really? Are you that immature?

        Are you cheering for the Tesla brand or for EVs and sustainable energy???

        I own a Tesla and a Nissan and love them both!

  2. Gazz says:

    So much for “production hell” Nissan just get on with it.

    1. F150 Brian says:

      “production hell” might have still been there, but just as a line item on the gantt chart because they know from experience how to factor it in

    2. Someone out there says:

      There is no “production hell” when you know what you are doing. Then it’s just business as usual.

      1. Peter says:

        If you have worked in production you know what production hell is.

        But let’s hope they get passed this face soon.

  3. Spider-Dan says:

    Outstanding launch by Nissan. Kudos are well-deserved.

    That being said, it’s worth mentioning that the likely reason why the Gen2 Leaf wasn’t teased for two years is because it’s not a significant jump. True, it’s a nice improvement over the Gen1 Leaf… but it’s way behind the Bolt, which came out a year ago.

    If Nissan had released a 230mile EV in late 2016, you can bet they would have been crowing about it in the leadup.

    1. Jay Cole says:

      That is a fair point. But with that said, Nissan’s all-electric CUV is planned to arrive next Fall…and Nissan still has yet to even give us a tease on it.

      As a random comp, we’ve been told about the Model Y for years, and Tesla already started teasing it in June – for a 2019/2020 debut (3-4 years out at least), while we have VW and Daimler both giving us ~4 years+ heads-up on the ID/EQ EVs. If Nissan was of a similar ilk, then that news cycle would have started in late 2014.

      (Super old comp – when OEMs were really pushing the ‘new wave’ and making themselves known: The first hint of the original LEAF was when it made its public debut in August 2009 (the EV-11/Versa mule only broke cover/tipping us off a couple weeks before), first sale was 1 year 4 months later – December 2010)

      I think Mark’s point is that Nissan is ready to sell what they show, they have 4 EV plants worldwide producing the one platform, and if global customers want 5,000 or 15,000 in March, Nissan is ready to fulfill that demand.

      One could argue that Nissan hasn’t always put forth the most ideal, or the most robust EV…Nissan has more than a few flaws – but the company has invested strongly (and early/often) – and has been prepared to sell its EVs without limitations globally. If you want one…you get one.

      1. Viking79 says:

        The other issue is Tesla only seems to have the resources to fully design one car at a time. There is no reason that the Model Y shouldn’t be launching within a year of the Model S. Given they don’t have factories built for it yet, I would guess it is at least 2 years out.

        They will be way behind competition by that point, except for supercharging and maybe Autopilot, but others might have caught up with those by that time. VW, GM, et al, can be developing many cars at once, the only thing that remains to be seen is how much they actually invest, and do they do it for vehicles that people want.

        1. Assaf says:

          @Jay what’s the 4th Leaf plant? Do they have 2 in Japan?

          Or are you counting Barcelona, thus far trickling out the eNV-200?

          1. Tom says:

            China, Japan, US, Europe

            1. Assaf says:

              Oh, right, of course!

              Well, easy to forget, it’s only the #1 EV market in the world 🙂

          2. kimmi says:

            Factory in China is the #4

        2. ziv says:

          Tesla may only have the design team and engineers to design one car at a time, but when will they need to redesign the Model S to make it look new again? I still think the S looks really good. But can they build the same car with a modest twist to the nose for a few more years without it looking tired? Any other car company and I would say, “No way!” With Tesla, maybe another 2 years? 3?

        3. Pushmi-Pullyu says:

          Viking79 said:

          “I would guess it [the Model Y] is at least 2 years out.

          “They will be way behind competition by that point, except for supercharging and maybe Autopilot…”

          By that time, Tesla will be way ahead of the competition in volume of EV sales, unless BYD is considered competition. Nobody other than Tesla and BYD are building out high capacity battery cell factories.

          “…but others might have caught up with those by that time. VW, GM, et al, can be developing many cars at once…”

          According to what I’ve read, even the biggest auto makers never have more than 4-5 entirely new models in development at any time. Sure, Tesla is still small compared to them. But will that still be the case in another 10 years? By that time Tesla might be bigger than Ford… and possibly still growing rapidly.

          Funny how an article about Nissan generates so much discussion focused on Tesla. It’s almost like Tesla is so far ahead in the EV revolution that it’s rather pointless to talk about any other auto maker without comparing them to Tesla! 😀

          Go Tesla!

          1. terminaltrip421 says:

            “Nobody other than Tesla and BYD are building out high capacity battery cell factories.”

            pulling information out of your ass is not really useful. it looks like CATL trumps everyone else, Tesla comes in second and there are other players as well. with this being 6 months old I’d be surprised if there wasn’t more to add at this point.

          2. springer says:

            Only Tesla fanboys think in terms of “EV evolution”. Most average consumers think of which car is the best car from my daily use? EV or hybrid or ICE barely enters into this consideration unless there is specific reason they are looking for an EV – such as mandatory requirement in many Chinese cities. Even in that case, it looks like China as fore-runner of world full of EV, reflect poorly on Tesla prospects.

      2. Joe says:

        I have yet to see it available for Canada. The local dealership doesn’t have any idea when availability will begin.

    2. Miggy says:

      So in worldwide sales the LEAF is already outselling the GM BOLT which has been on the market for almost a year.

      1. Spider-Dan says:

        USA is still located on the same world, so no.

        1. Mikael says:

          The Bolt is doing ~3k per month. The Leaf already 4k per month according to this article and we expect even higher numbers to come with Europe/US production and deliveries coming along.

          4k seems higher than 3k to me.

          And add another 1000 or so except the Japan Leaf sales for the month too.

          1. Spider-Dan says:

            The Bolt currently has 17,662 sales worldwide. 4k is less than 17k.

            1. Mikael says:

              “is outselling” refers to the current situation, not cumulative sales.

              And looking at cumulative sales the Leaf has over 300k. And this year over 40k. The Bolt has a long way to go to reach Leaf levels in current sales, cumulative sales for the year or total.

              Going by your standard the iMiev outsells the Bolt both by a huge margin.

              1. Spider-Dan says:

                This argument makes no sense, no matter how you slice it. Let us examine the original statement: “So in worldwide sales the LEAF is already outselling the GM BOLT which has been on the market for almost a year.”

                What point is being made here?

                – That the Leaf, which has been available for 7 years, has more cumulative sales than the Bolt after 1 year? I would hope so.
                – That the gen2 Leaf has more sales in the last month than the Bolt? OK, but in that same time frame the Bolt has more U.S. sales than the Model S and the Prius Prime combined. A one-month snapshot doesn’t say much.
                – That the Gen2 Leaf has more sales worldwide than the Bolt? Again, that’s only true if you don’t count USA as part of the world.

                1. Knut Erik Ballestad says:

                  What is so untrue about 4.000 Leafs sold in October is more than 3.xxx Bolts sold on October?

            2. springer says:

              Bolt and Leaf both are great cars for people who want an EV, and immediately available. GM has only one plant where Bolt is produced, where as Nissan has at least three factory in three continents gearing up to produce Leaf. So you have to give credit to Nissan – they are going global with Leaf, where as GM is still mostly focusing on US market.

      2. Kdawg says:

        Bolt EV isn’t sold worldwide. Might was well compare it to vehicles currently roving Mars.

    3. mx says:

      The New Leaf is an incremental improvement over the old Leaf, with virtually the same specs, with a new body and new battery. It’s not a total new vehicle, with groundbreaking acceleration, range, and AI.

      Tesla pushing the envelope and letting you know it’s progress semi-monthly isn’t a bad thing.

      1. Someone out there says:

        How is it virtually the same specs? Different design, different battery, stronger motor, more options (e-Pedal, ProPilot), faster acceleration, longer range, more energy efficient, … the list goes on and on!

      2. springer says:

        Yea Model 3 is cheaper than Model S, but in every other way, it’s a downgrade from Model S (including that terrible non-existent instrument panel). So how is that a progress?

    4. zzzzzzzzzz says:

      Spider-Dan:
      “Leaf wasn’t teased for two years ”

      What company in its right mind would tease future replacement product to damage sales for current product? It would be outright dumb.

      You can tease new product when it is too different and teasing would not damage sales. Or when your main business is selling hype & shares, not cars.

  4. Another Euro point of view says:

    Ouch…

  5. leafowner says:

    Good to see — it’s too bad they did not launch in the US in October as well — as with the thread of the loss of the EV credit — they may have sold every one they could have made in Oct-Dec of this year….

    As for some of the other comments — I agree that Gen 2 should have been launched in 2016!

  6. rick says:

    Too bad the range is kinda low…

    1. Tom says:

      Well except anywhere in Asia or Europe where it is range king for anything south of $70,000 that you can actually buy.

      1. rick says:

        It’s low range whether it has competition or not. But now that you mention it, Ampera-e, new i3 and especially new e-Golf have similar range +- 30 km…

        1. Anti-Lord Kelvin says:

          The Renault Zoe 40 as an even bigger range (185 miles EPA)than the Leaf2 (150 miles EPA), at the same price…

          1. Rick says:

            Oh yea, forgot about that one! Indeed, another vehicle with similar (actually more) range. I really don’t see what’s special about Nissan… its also hype… different hype from Tesla, but still hype. They can deliver an EV, but why would I bother when there are other options that are as good or better? It’s good they updated the leaf, more choice, more EVs, but it’s no Model 3 competitor otherwise I’d have sold out.

          2. Tony says:

            Zoe and Leaf are different class cars. And i take Leaf over the Zoe anytime.
            Leaf – No hassle, always take you from A to B
            Zoe – All kind of problems, worst beeing electrical & charging failures. Heat pump dosent work in cold climate. Many Zoe owners have their cars at shop for months awaiting repair. renault has to improve reliability.

      2. Mikael says:

        Hmm… It’s not even beating the best selling Zoe in Europe on range.

        And in Asia there are plenty of models with same or more range (BYD Song EV300, Qin EV300, e5, e6, Denza 400, Geely Emgrand EV).

        1. Reijer Kok says:

          The new Leaf is a much better option than the Zoë. Better build quality, more driver assitance and safety features for about the same price. I see no reason why the Leaf won’t outsell the Zoë. The Ampere-e got a price increase of € 5.700,- and has a delivery time of more than a year. The Hyundai Ioniq has more than 8 monts delivery time. E-golf is more expensive as well and is almost outsold. The Leaf will be delivered within 4 months in the Netherlands. The best option to go with in my opinion.

          1. Mikael says:

            It’s the best option in my opinion too (and I chose to get the Leaf over the Zoe the last time I got a new car), but it’s not the range king.

        2. Anti-Lord Kelvin says:

          Ok, my bad, as I didn’t saw your post about the Zoé before posting mine.

  7. Andrew says:

    The reason Nissan’s launch in Japan went so well is because the car is a heavy refresh, not a new platform. Leaf 2.0 is basically a new front clip, dashboard, and some bumper covers on the old car with a new battery. The bones of the car are the same as the 2011 model.

    Nissan also left their US dealers basically without any cars to sell for four months because of the gap in their launch.

    That said it’s a great iteration and it looks like a winner in the marketplace but there is a difference between launching a brand new platform (GM and Tesla) and refreshing an old car.

    1. Terawatt says:

      Oh, is it? Nissan didn’t really have any issues when they launched the original in 2010. Nor do they regularly botch the launch of every other vehicle – quite the contrary.

      I agree that the new LEAF isn’t truly a new generation. It’s a substantial facelift. The next gen doesn’t come with the 60 kWh 2019 either, it arrives in 2020 on a new platform, with a new chassis and new suspension and new everything, basically (even though the platform itself is of course just an evolution of earlier platforms).

      But to claim without evidence that this is “the reason” Nissan launched as if they were professionals who knew what they were doing is really unfair.

      If you need to, by all means excuse Tesla. They are young and perhaps more importantly they are, if the hype is true anyway, attempting to reinvent the entire production process, not merely design and build new cars in the “conventional way”. Perhaps that is a good explanation of why Tesla’s launch is such a stark contrast. But there’s no denying the stark contrast and no reason at all to dismiss Nissan’s job here.

      Besides, I at least read this as a dig at ALL the manufacturers and especially GM with the Bolt and Hyundai with the Ioniq – both of which have much higher demand than production (if you include non-US markets and Ampera-e for the Bolt, that is). Hyundai and sister Kia is planning to pull the same nice again with the KONA and Niro, by the way. Both have very attractive specs and prices but only small volumes are planned.

      So although the reasons are very different, everyone but Nissan seems unable or unwilling to supply a car the market wants in any volume.

      I believe Nissan has a healthy margin on the LEAF, and if they continue to fulfill demand and price aggressively they look very well positioned to lead in EVs. Just the LEAF alone is looking like a rocket after many years of too-small improvements. The 2018 is a huge step. The 2019 60 kWh is another 50% range increase and unknown power bump. The NISMO adds a sportier option. And in 2020 the true second generation car arrives. That’s three years in a row with big improvements! If the CUV and perhaps an electric Micra arrive soon volume could easily grow tenfold 2017-2020…

      Teslas volume should increase a lot as well. But right now it’s hard to believe Tesla can broaden their selection and fulfill demand in anything like the pace Nissan can.

      Whether Tesla’s ambition to invent a much better way to manufacture ever materialises is unknown. It could fail, you know. I hope it doesn’t. But I think it’s disingenuous to diss Nissan just because they are doing something that actually works. And it seems the first long range affordable EV, even if you define that as 200+ miles, that people can actually buy may well turn out to be a Nissan, at least outside the US (96% of the world).

      1. Andrew says:

        “Nissan didn’t really have any issues when they launched the original in 2010. Nor do they regularly botch the launch of every other vehicle – quite the contrary.”

        I don’t know what 2010 Leaf launch you saw but I remember a handful of cars being dribbled out in a staggered rollout pattern just like GM was accused of above, done so at a languid pace and equipped with defective batteries prompting a class-action lawsuit against the company. I’m driving one of them now which has lost 40% of its capacity in four years and is awaiting delivery of a new battery pack under the result of that lawsuit. Not quite the rosy launch you seem to remember.

      2. eltosho says:

        “Oh, is it? Nissan didn’t really have any issues when they launched the original in 2010”

        19, 87, 67 – those are the sales for the first 3 months of the Gen1 Leaf sales in the US. So far, the M3 is way ahead!

        1. Spider-Dan says:

          Nissan wasn’t slapping NDAs on prototypes and selling them, so it’s not exactly apples-to-apples.

          1. antrik says:

            These aren’t prototypes Tesla is selling. They are regular production units — the production is just very slow thus far.

            The only unusual thing is that they started selling them pretty much immediately, rather than a few months into the ramp up, as car manufacturers usually do. But as pointed out above, Nissan did more or less the same with the original LEAF…

            1. unlucky says:

              No matter what Tesla calls them it’s clear they were at best production-intent vehicles. More likely pilot production.

              And your second paragraph seems to indicate you don’t actually know what happens in production. You don’t just turn on the line and not sell cars for a few months. You start the line, determine issues, then turn it off while you work on them. And you repeat. Other car companies make cars on the line better part of year before the first production (to sell) cars are made on the line. Tesla didn’t do this. And that’s a big difference.

              1. antrik says:

                You are mixing up prototype/pilot phases with production ramp-up. Both are part of the standard procedure, followed by every car maker, including Tesla.

                Again, the *only* substantial difference is that Tesla didn’t delay deliveries of the first production units. (And is much more open about what’s going on.)

                1. unlucky says:

                  No, I’m not mixing them up. I’m saying Tesla called cars that are actually pilot production (prototypes) production cars.

                  Tesla can call them what they want. But those cars made in these quantities on a production line which isn’t even finished (as evidenced by hand building parts) are not production. They are pilot production/production-intent.

                  Tesla does not finish their cars to the same level as other companies before beginning to sell them. They do not take them to the level other companies would consider production level.

            2. Spider-Dan says:

              The actual production units – the ones that aren’t hand-built – purportedly have FM radios.

              These prototypes do not.

      3. Spider-Dan says:

        To be fair to GM:

        1) They attempted a worldwide rollout with the Volt/Ampera and were badly burned
        2) For reasons unrelated to EVs, GM sold off Opel and no longer has any dealers in Europe
        3) Australia is RHD and it doesn’t make sense to make a Holden Ampera-e for one country

        GM is taking a more demand-driven approach with the Bolt than they did with the Volt. It seems like GM has been able to keep up with the demand for Bolts, where it actually exists.

        1. Anti-Lord Kelvin says:

          “GM has been able to keep up with the demand for Bolts, where it actually exists.”
          Well,I wouldn’t want to speak at their place, but I think it would be easy to find some thousands Canadian potential buyers that shall differ with you…

        2. antrik says:

          No, they aren’t taking a demand-driven approach. The Bolt is a compliance car — they never intended to meet demand, since they are actually loosing money on sales in most markets. It’s only profitable in California and a few other places with strong ZEV mandates, where they effectively make some 16000-20000 extra on each unit. But they could hardly justify making the official price 16000-20000 higher in other markets — so instead, they were officially putting it at more or less the same price everywhere, but steering sales only to the profitable markets: flooding these lots of excess units and offering fat rebates; while everywhere else, they are only delivering a few token units at a loss for image purposes.

          Except that with Opel no longer being theirs, they have no interest in delivering even token units for image purposes at a loss any more — so they raised the price to where it’s actually profitable…

          1. Someone out there says:

            Bulls**t! The list price of the EV battery according to a Chevy representative that Green Car Reports talked to is $15,734.29. I.e. the price Chevy charges for it not what Chevy pays for it. Obviously there is a significant margin on that price, as we all know original manufacturer replacement parts come with a hefty margin. So the claim that Chevy can’t make a profit on a $37500 car whose majority-cost part is well below $15k (probably around $10k) is simply false.

            1. antrik says:

              Except that the production cost being significantly above the list price has been confirmed both by an extensive analysis from a company specialising in estimating production costs, as well as by actual GM representatives.

              And that’s just on top of the fact that GM is *obviously* not trying to sell it outside of the ZEV markets, as delivery numbers vs. order back-logs in different markets clearly show.

              1. Someone out there says:

                > Except that the production cost being significantly above the list price has been confirmed both by an extensive analysis from a company specialising in estimating production costs, as well as by actual GM representatives.

                Source for that? The GM rep that is, I don’t give a hoot about 3rd party analyses.

                > And that’s just on top of the fact that GM is *obviously* not trying to sell it outside of the ZEV markets, as delivery numbers vs. order back-logs in different markets clearly show.

                Again, pure BS. The car is available in all 50 states and Canada. The Ampera-e is a disaster but that has to do with the stupid descision to make it an Opel instead of a Chevy and then selling the Opel brand.

            2. David Cary says:

              Wait a sec. While I am not disagreeing with your premise, there is nothing to say that they aren’t losing money on the replacement part. Especially when that is a part that they will sell zero of. An impact or event that gets the battery will total the car.

              Nissan admitted they were losing money on the original replacement cost for the battery. From a PR standpoint, losing a few thousand here and there is nothing.

              1. Someone out there says:

                It makes no sense for GM to sell the battery at a loss to third parties.
                Additionally, GM has stated that they are buying cells at $145 per kWh which is $8700 for 60 kWh. They would have to be severely incompetent if they then sold the battery at a loss for $15k. It just doesn’t make any sense.

          2. Spider-Dan says:

            Yeah yeah, every automaker is conspiring to artificially overprice EVs so that demand stays low and ICE dominance is preserved. Oh wait, no, you’re actually saying that GM is underpricing the Bolt because they don’t care if they lose money, as it is a compliance car.

            And as for how GM is not meeting market demand when this loss-leader compliance car which is priced “$16k-$20k” cheaper than it actually should be has thousands of units sitting on dealer lots waiting to be purchased… hey, look over there!

        3. Miggy says:

          Spider-Dan do you really believe that Australia is the only country or market that has RHD cars.
          GM is still active in other counties.
          There are some 74 countries that drive on the left (RHD) which is 35% of the world’s population.

          1. wavelet says:

            Miggy,
            Yes, but of those 35% most are in Japan (negligible market for GM since it’s not a Japanese company) and India/Pakistan?Bangladesh (negligible market for the Bolt since it is too expensive).

          2. David Cary says:

            Like Wavelet said, 35% of population is not equal to 35% of potential market.

            England and US is pretty much it. 4 million sales of total 88 million WW sales. So 5% instead of 35%. Am I missing a large car market?

            Japan – skipped for obvious reasons
            India – skipped because of cost although I am sure it is still 1-2% of potential market just not the 3.3% of total that it is.

            1. David Cary says:

              England and Australia is of course what I meant

      4. antrik says:

        In addition to the other points, it’s important to remember that Nissan was planning for ten times the sales they actually got with the original LEAF — so it’s unsurprising they were able to meet actual demand quite quickly… Which is the opposite situation from what Tesla got into with every major new platform.

        (Only the Model X was a different story…)

  8. Tom says:

    3 continent launch in a 60 day period at full volume. Now witness the power of this fully armed and operational automobile plant!

    1. William says:

      Now will Nissan Leaf delivery numbers be greater than Tesla Model 3 delivery numbers in North America, for only the Month of January?
      It may be the only Month that the 2018 Leaf 2.0 will potentially surpass M3 delivery numbers.

      1. ffbj says:

        True. In many ways the New Leaf is already old hat, even before it’s been released, in the U.S. Low power, low range. For Japan, sure, for the U.S. not so much.

        1. Djoni says:

          Well, it could be also enough power, enough range.
          For each his own.

  9. Benz says:

    85,000 Nissan Leafs delivered in Japan in 83 months.

    Before October 2017 the average monthly Nissan Leafs delivered in Japan was almost 1,000.

    That average is going to increase.

    How many Nissan Leafs will there be delivered in Japan in 2018?

  10. Pete says:

    Woah, thats simply amazing! They could produce 150.000 next year, just easy if the market cries.

  11. CCIE says:

    Ouch, it’s a bad sign when even the EV writers are burning Tesla for their poor execution!

    Tesla failing would be bad for the EV industry in general. So, I do hope the bad news stops rolling in and they get their act together.

    1. Big Solar says:

      This is what Musk says he wants, more EVs on the road no matter who makes them.

    2. terminaltrip421 says:

      I don’t think anyone intelligent see Tesla as going to fail — just get humbled and hopefully someone muzzles Musk.

  12. CDAVIS says:

    From article: “Almost 4,000 LEAF Sales In Debut Month For Japan”
    —————–

    That’s great news! ….

    Hopefully all those Nissan Leafs showing up on the streets in Toyota’s back yard will encourage Toyota to allocate less resources towards hydrogen fools cells and more resources towards BEV.

  13. John Ray says:

    I actually drove the new LEAF on Saturday. The first thing I noticed was how much smoother it was when accelerating and the quiet and comfortable ride. Pro-Pilot worked well though it sometimes got closer to the lines when going around a curve than I would have preferred. One neat thing about it is that if it has to disengage for some reason (i.e you put on the blinker to change lanes), it will automatically reengage once the lane change is complete.

    E-pedal was also something I could get used to. It was easy to modulate and even works in reverse.

    In terms of driving dynamics and layout, the new LEAF is not a significantly different car from old LEAF. It is, however, better in almost every way. In my opinion, the old LEAF was a great car and left very little to be desired in terms of utility. The new LEAF is larger, looks better and is far less expensive than the competition. It also offers a host of features that the competition doesn’t like Pro-Pilot, e-Pedal and Android Auto/Apple Carplay.

    If all you care about is range, then look elsewhere. But if you want an EV that is also really good at being an everyday car, then the new LEAF is a winner.

    BTW, I have driven a Bolt and I am not a GM hater (our other car is an Enclave), but the Bolt is really too expensive for what it is. In light of the possible disappearance of the tax credit, I went on GM’s website yesterday to price a Bolt. After looking at the pictures and being reminded of my test drive, I decided the Bolt just doesn’t work for me. I would rather pay full freight for the new LEAF than buy a Bolt with the tax credit. I think the gap is that wide.

    1. Terawatt says:

      I very much agree. And yet I wouldn’t get one. The 2019 LEAF is another huge step and probably worth the wait (if the expected price delta of just $3k or so proves accurate). And the 2020 is new from the ground up…

      I know, it’s impossible to wait until progress ends (thankfully). But at least for me, the 2018 LEAF is a great car you ought to resist if the LEAF is otherwise right for you! 🙂

    2. unlucky says:

      You were making sense until the end.

      A Bolt is cheaper with the rebate than the existing base Leaf. And that’s at retail price for the Bolt.

      When the new Leaf comes out it’ll be more expensive than the current one. You won’t be able to get the 40kWh Leaf for $7500 less than a Bolt.

      Comparing rebate to rebate or non-rebate to non-rebate makes sense. The Leaf is cheaper, I can see why one would take it. But your last paragraph makes zero sense. You’d be paying more for the Leaf. And that’s without ProPilot.

      e-Pedal. Nissan puts a name on what the Bolt calls “single pedal driving” and people plotz. The power of marketing. Lesson learned I guess.

      1. menorman says:

        When the new Leaf comes out it’ll be more expensive than the current one. You won’t be able to get the 40kWh Leaf for $7500 less than a Bolt.

        The MSRP for the base 2018 Leaf is a couple hundred less than the MSRP of the outgoing base 2017 Leaf. Of course, Nissan almost certainly won’t be putting $10k on the hood like they were with the 2017s, so the real price that people are paying likely will be close to MSRP. However, that will still be cheaper than the Bolt and around $34k will get someone into the mid-level SV trim with ProPilot and DCFC.

      2. John Ray says:

        It makes perfect sense when you consider how much smaller, less comfortable and less refined the Bolt is. To get a Bolt with leather and driver confidence and infotainment packages puts you in the mid-40’s. Don’t forget that DC fast charging is optional as well. Meanwhile, a fully equipped LEAF SL (what I would get) with Pro-Pilot is around $37K. The cars just aren’t in the same class.

        1. unlucky says:

          DC fast charging is also optional on the LEAF. From current accounts the base LEAF still doesn’t even have 6kW AC charging standard.

          I’m not saying the Bolt doesn’t cost more. I said it did cost more. What I said was it makes no sense saying you’d rather have a LEAF with no rebate than a Bolt with a rebate. Because at that point the LEAF costs more.

          1. John Ray says:

            But the LEAF doesn’t cost more even without the tax credit. A fully loaded Bolt with fast charging costs +/-$44k. The fully loaded LEAF SL (which includes fast charging) is around $37K. Thus a Bolt with the tax credit costs about the same as a LEAF without. It’s not all about cost, however. The LEAF offers more value for the money, imho.

            1. ModernMarvelFan says:

              You are right that Bolt and LEAF aren’t in the same class. LEAF is a slow POS that is as fast as a Prius. Bolt is as quick as a hot hatch. Without thermal protection, LEAF is a class beneath all other EVs with its crappy battery protection. That is why LEAF is only moving in mild climate (Japan is mild).

              1. David Cary says:

                Check your numbers – Prius is significantly slower than new Leaf. Bolt is faster for sure.

                The fact is some people don’t care about that. Or they care about other things much more. The new Leaf is fast enough for the vast majority of drivers.

                Just like range is far enough for the vast majority of drivers who have another car in the household for road trips

      3. (⌐■_■) Trollnonymous says:

        Expected $32,490 for the SV version….
        https://insideevs.com/2018-nissan-leaf-reveal-details/

        Currently $37,495 for base Bolt…
        http://www.chevrolet.com/bolt-ev-electric-vehicle

        1. unlucky says:

          That Bolt price includes destination and the LEAF price likely is just MSRP.

          But yeah, either way, if you don’t get the $7500 on the LEAF it’s going to cost more than the Bolt.

          1. Mr. M says:

            … and a better car is allowed to cost more. That was his point in the beginning.

            If Leaf would cost 2000€ more than the Bolt i would still go for the Leaf. Because it offers more. And range would be ok on both. In the other Hand if the Bolt would be 10.000€ cheaper than the Leaf i would go for the Bolt.

            1. unlucky says:

              This Leaf is not a better car.

  14. (⌐■_■) Trollnonymous says:

    Still sub 200 range and……
    No TMS No Sale!

    1. William says:

      “No sale” hopefully doesn’t also mean No Lease. A Lease (2yr), on the 2018 Leaf is a good plan B, if your not on the Model 3 preorder list, that is if your holding out for 2020, and all of the options that will be available, like the Tesla Model Y.

      1. (⌐■_■) Trollnonymous says:

        I’m not a fan of a LEASE. I own my cars outright at the end.

        You’re pretty optimistic on the Y being out in 2020. You’re right in that I am buying in 2020, the M3 with AWD.

        I think in 2020 the Y will only be officially ~announced~ (coming out party…..lol) and not be avail till 2022.5 🙂

        1. William says:

          If it takes 4.5 more years for Tesla to get Model Y deliveries out, to non reservation/preorder holders, then Tesla better have delivered their first one Million plus Model 3 to the rest of the EV hoard worldwide.

          I would hope ( big hope ) that I could get an early $1k reservation Tesla Model Y, before the end of 2020. Probably a bit too optimistic at this “production hell” point in (model 3) time.

  15. MTN Ranger says:

    Not surprising since the car basically has the same platform and mostly the same parts. Having three factories will help as they ramp up production.

  16. eltosho says:

    “Nissan Shows How To Launch An EV Right” – just, if it wasn’t only a 7 year old car with changed headlights and 10kW more battery…

    1. Assaf says:

      hahaha,

      While you scoff at the 10kWh – and cumulatively +16kWh over 2 years – and wait for Mr. Right EV…

      …3600 Japanese households happily drive home their new Leaf, which thanks to the Chademo infrastructure can take them anywhere in Japan with ease and comfort, purely on electrons.

      1. eltosho says:

        Do you know how small Japan is?

        1. Mr. M says:

          3000 km long. Like East coast US to West coast US. Question answered?

          1. David Cary says:

            The US is 3000 miles wide.

            A long narrow island makes charging infrastructure much easier.

            But probably the big difference is that people take trains for longer trips. I don’t know of course but that would be my assumption. Again, easier with a long thin island. And easier with large cities as your destination since public transportation exists.

  17. unlucky says:

    Is there some people feel they need to slag Nissan to defend Tesla here?

    Even in a vacuum Tesla has had poor execution on the Model 3. They should have announced it and especially offered it for sale later. They should have gone through pilot production before selling cars.

    Perhaps this ramp up by Nissan isn’t amazing. It’s an ordinary factory changeover. But perhaps that it seems so ordinary is something to do with how Nissan does things. Or on the reverse, how Tesla does.

    1. bro1999 says:

      I’m trying to figure out which is the bigger debacle: Model 3 launch or the Pacifica Hybrid launch. I think the Pacifica Hybrid still is the “winner”, though Tesla can easily take the crown if “production hell” continues.

      1. ffbj says:

        That’s not much to debate about along with who is the biggest pain in the posterior around here. There is a hands down clear winner.

        1. bro1999 says:

          Mister G certainly is annoying.

          1. Mister G says:

            What you talking about…GO TESLA GO DESTROY DIRTY GAS GUZZLERS AND THE FOSSIL FUEL CARTEL LOL

  18. Assaf says:

    Ladies and Gentlemen, we have a winner… note that global October Leaf sales for Gen 2 alone will be more than Bolt and Model 3 combined.

    Love the zingers in your post, Mark. I’ve been saying that for a while, only using way more words, and not having the actual first sales numbers to back it up:
    https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2017/10/7/1704537/–RBPi-Vol-4-9-10-2017-Is-150-miles-a-good-bargain-How-about-107-miles

  19. Yogurt says:

    No surprise that legacy auto makers can change production lines and build auto plants in there sleep almost like they have been doing it for 50 or a 100 years…

    The real surprise is on Tesla who skipped steps to the applause and fanfare of commentors and then fubared the model 3 rollout because they knew how to make cars better than 100 year old companies who build more cars in a month than Tesla has in their exestience so far…

    Hopefuly Tesla can learn from their black eye and do their model Y and truck rollouts correctly but those are probably years in the future like their Chinese plant…

    Still dont understand why people complain about concept cars or plans that are anounced years vs weeks or months in the future since both are done acording to whats in the best interest of the company…
    But all EV news is good news for public awareness…

  20. Mrknave says:

    It liked the fact that the obvious was pointed out. I keep hearing about the model 3 and it’s exciting, but in 7 months when my lease is up for a my leaf…I can’t go and get a model 3. But a new bolt is and option the ionic is out there and the new leaf should be available in June too. Oh yeah, maybe the Kia Niro ev maybe an for sale too in 2018. While Tesla’s vaporware is still in production hell

  21. Paul N says:

    Personally I think Tesla are executing their goal perfectly. Which is to say ‘changing the automotive world and scaring the incumbents into action’. Hype is a part of that. It worked very well for Steve Jobs and put Apple where it is today. However late they may be and have been with execution they have come further faster than just about any company out there. Lets face it its not rocket science and Elon seems to be reinventing that. Now as an investment Tesla is a difficult call but if there was a problem the lineup to buy them out would be very long.

  22. Lou Grinzo says:

    Can we PLEASE turn down the fanboy bickering a few notches? It’s really getting out of hand.

    I drive a Leaf, and will likely replace it with a new Leaf next year, but I’m a fan of ALL plug-in cars. Humanity desperately needs to decarbonize our worldwide economy, and electrifying transportation is a huge part of that immense challenge. So when I see more sales of the Volt or Bolt or Leaf or whatever, I’m happy.

  23. DJ says:

    Talk about a nice launch. Has there actually ever been such a good 1st month launch for an EV?

    This is what you can do when you put your big boy pants on!

  24. Brave Lil' Toaster says:

    Not to defend Tesla too much, but Nissan has been producing over a million cars a year for several decades already. Many pundits said this would happen to Tesla, purely because they have no experience mass-producing cars like dozens of other companies do already.

    Personally, I don’t care. More electric cars for everyone!

    1. John Ray says:

      That doesn’t excuse the hubris, though. If everyone could see this coming, why couldn’t they? I really hope Tesla can get their act together. If they do manage to implode in spectacular fashion, it will be bad for all EVs.

      1. antrik says:

        Except that *did* see it coming. Musk said in advance that the goals are aspirational, and there is virtually zero chance of no delays coming up.

  25. Glen says:

    I am so amazed by peoples misunderstanding of what a new generation vehicle is. So many comments directed at the Leaf being a “refresh.” If using the body shell or upgraded drive-line components for a new generation car makes it a refresh then I’m pretty sure the Ford F series ha only had about 5 generations. Volkswagen have had 7 different generations of Golfs over 40 years or so. Sometimes, the same engine carried across 3 generations. Does that make it 3 refreshes because every last component wasn’t entirely new?
    This next generation Leaf has a new battery (different chemistry), a redesign motor, new interior, new redesigned suspension, etc. After watching the Japanese release presentation didn’t one of the engineers say over 90% of the car had been redesigned or is entirely new? What’s the magic number for a second generation car – 99%?

    1. Djoni says:

      Not the motor, according to greencar.

      https://www.greenoptimistic.com/nissan-leaf-power-same-motor-20171003/

      Same mill, they just remap the controler and beef up the inverter.

      1. Glen says:

        Thanks for correcting that Djoni. I missed that or misunderstood something in the presentation. Happy to accept my mistakes when politely and factually pointed out to me.
        Cheers.

  26. antrik says:

    There are obvious, well-known reasons why car makers delay unveiling replacements for existing models as long as possible, while they hype entirely new entries long in advance. That applies to Tesla, Nissan, and every other brand — it’s just business as usual.

    What I really dislike though is the undertone of this article implying that Tesla hyping the Model 3 in advance was somehow a bad thing. Nothing could be more wrong than that! The Model 3 announcement (and the enormous number of reservations following it) has single-handedly changed the entire industry’s EV plans. We should be thankful for that, rather than making snide remarks because of a few months’ delay. (Especially since Musk said all along that he doesn’t actually expect things to go according to plan…)

  27. Tony Marco says:

    I drive a 2014 BMW i3 Rex (the original one foot driver) and love it!!! — But Nissan is till the EV leader and this 2nd Gen Leaf, no matter was any armchair EV critic posting here says, will still be the WORLD leader in EVs for years to come because they know how to release a vehicle and do it well !!!

    Don’t believe that, checkout the total sales in a few months once this model lands in the US!

  28. Lawrence says:

    So rediculous when Model 3 fans can’t cheer for other EV’s to succeed.

  29. Ken says:

    The 3629 number does not reflect customer demand, but it does reflect about test drive vehicles for domestic Nissan dealers.

    You can find three peak period of Japanese sales numbers.

    1. Feb 2011 – new model delivery
    2. Jan Feb 2016 – refresh model delivery
    3. Oct 2017 – Another new model delivery

    1. Glen says:

      Can you state a source for your statement please Ken? All reports I am reading say the 3629 are delivered sales.

      1. Ken says:

        It actually is not sales number in Japan.

        It is registration number which license plate has been issued.

        A dealer show model does not require a license plate, but a test drive vehicle has to have the license plate.

        1. Glen says:

          Ken,
          So you haven’t actually offered a source.
          I’ve emailed Nissan Japan to ask for clarification regarding their sales figures and if they are actually vehicles that have gone to private customers or merely, as you suggest, dealer registered cars for demonstration and sale.
          In this connected age why not just ask the source.

  30. Glen says:

    Does anyone think sales in Japan could have been a lot higher if Nissan didn’t have to stop production due to the quality certifications of their inspectors? Surely stock would have dried up.

  31. ydnas7 says:

    >Ken

    as long as it how Nissan commonly reports its sales in Japan, then its all good.

    Different countries, different companies don’t report using the same methodology. Neither do they write with the same methodology either. (ie left to right, right to left, vertically etc)

    1. unlucky says:

      It’s all good until you see people making assumptions about sales being off with a bang from the data. Assumptions which are not merited if you know the context.

      Ken did the right thing pointing this out. It should be pointed out, like how Japanese efficiency/range figures cannot be interpreted on the same scale as EPA ones. Or European (UK) ones either for that matter.

  32. terminaltrip421 says:

    this leaf would actually cover my longest trip -120 miles- which I make monthly but I live in the desert where 110-120 is the norm during the summer so without TMS I feel like the Europeans who can’t get an Ampera-e — effectively not being marketed to.

  33. Mike says:

    The lack of a $7500 tax credit would really hurt the Nissan Leaf. Probably more than any other EV right now.

  34. Mister G says:

    Don’t want to pooppoo nissan but jenkims Nissan in Lakeland florida has had my 2016 leaf since Saturday for a battery pack replacement and they can’t get it to hold more than a 15 mile charge WTH I’m driving a gas guzzling loaner and hate it.

  35. mxs says:

    LOL …. the Tesla fan club from electreck.com is amusing to watch. Imagine that … a legacy OEM announces and shows a car and ships it a month or so later, in volume some could just feel envious about.

    Well done, EV is an EV, obviously not for everyone though, eh?

  36. Glen says:

    So after watching the Nissan quarterly report live on YouTube, a share-market presentation about how Nissan is doing, Nissan’s domestic sales chief Asako Hoshino, reported that about 9600 Generation 2 Nissan Leaf’s had been sold in the month of October but only 3629 had been delivered to customers owing to the production halt. The 3629 delivered cars were latter confirmed by Japan’s Government Automobile Association and NOT DEALER registered demo’s as some people would have you believe. At the end of October Nissan had over 14000 confirmed purchases of the next generation Leaf. Not intentions to buy or deposits but firm sales contracts which you cant back out of. 14000 in one month in limited markets is pretty good. It will be interesting to see next months figures as Nissan’s Leaf factory has just started up again and they have over 5000 orders from October to fill. Nissan share-market presentation is available on their global YouTube sight.

  37. Don Zenga says:

    Wow, 3,629 is very impressive and this is the all time high. Hope their worldwide sales starting from 2018-01 will top the BAIC EC-180’s sales of 9,000 +.

  38. Pete says:

    Are the sales from July, August & September are available in detail here on insideevs?

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