Nissan LEAF e+ Orders High: Production Capacity Might Be An Issue

FEB 23 2019 BY MARK KANE 80

Sales of e+ in Europe are to start in mid-2019

Nissan announced earlier this month that it received more than 3,000 pre-orders for 3.ZERO Limited Edition of the LEAF e+ in Europe, from 5,000 units planned.

According to Ken Ramirez, Nissan Europe’s senior vice president sales and marketing, the first thousand pre-orders were placed in the first day and 3,000 were reached in mid-January, which seems to be just several days after announcing prices.

The interest is so high that Nissan will need to “recalibrate” its expectations – in other words, there will again be a queue of customers waiting for their electric cars. Surprised? We aren’t. This seems to be the case with every new and compelling EVs these days.

It sold very quickly, and it means we have to recalibrate our total volume expectation for the year,”

“It’s not just a battery but also a high specification. The fact it sold so quickly is a good test of the appetite for this market.”

Ken Ramirez also expressed an expectation that the 40 kWh version will remain the best-selling battery option, but he didn’t say what kind of volume the 62 kWh battery version might reach.

The LEAF e+ will be sold in the U.S. under the name of LEAF e-Plus. We’ll be sharing our first drive of this new Nissan in just a couple of days. Stay tuned to see what we think of Nissan’s newest EV.

Source: Autocar

Categories: Nissan

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80 Comments on "Nissan LEAF e+ Orders High: Production Capacity Might Be An Issue"

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Must be missing at least one zero. 3000 sounds like nothing 😉

Thats for the limited edition trim level

Yep.

If I’m reading that correctly it was 1,000 orders the first day and 2,000 orders the next three days. Hopefully there will be similar demand the Tesla model 3, Kona, and eGolf.

Nissan EV leadership right there…

5,000 units planned….

Gee, Nissan, way to hit it out of the park! 😐

Apparently that’s just for the highest end “limited edition” of the 60kwh.

Tesla is making that many high-end Model 3’s in half a week….

Aye, and Tesla have been ridiculed for not being able to produce cars in numbers.
The Leaf is a popular EV, it is obvious that a top of the line Leaf would have a lot of interest. Even a non car guy understands that out of pure statistics.

Depends on price. Since it’s expected to be significantly more expensive than the 40 kWh variant (the limited edition certainly is), it might actually be a fairly tough sell going forward — when VW for example intends to start selling the ~82 kWh battery variant of the ID. Neo (ID. 3?) next year for 30,000 Euros…

Volkswagen has said a lot of things.

No I think everyone is making jokes about the cars being a very poor quality of build and bursting into flames every time they bump into a tree. They need to make BETTER cars and stop using dangerous skate board batteries and switch to the gigafactory batteries.

`They’ve slowed down.

Unfortunately many of the Teslas are still being built with the dangerous and short lasting 18650 batteries. Two of them caught on fire last week, one owner burned alive. They are also begging owners to never charge those cars to 100% because of atrocious battery degradation. If I was a Tesla owner I would be trading in my S or X for a 3 or a Porsche EV.

It seems tesla is laying off 10% of its remaining work force every week. Lets hope they can sell those model 3s and discontinue the S and X or start using safer longer lasting gigafactory batteries in all their cars.

Hey it’s almost a whole week of Model 3 production! Well, ok, towards the end of the year, it’ll be half a week IF things go to plan (big if)…

Pretty ridiculous to consider the cars competitors, huh?

There is a lot to like on the Leaf and there appears to be a lot more to like on the Leaf+. But there is also a lot not to like on the Leaf. I’m waiting for some real world test to see if some of the things not to like have been corrected on the Leaf+.

Well, we already know it is still air cooled. That’s no improvement.

A bigger fan.

A bigger fan, what? You are a bigger fan now? 🙂

No, I’m not a big fan, but they are putting in a bigger fan.

I think the word “Bigger” is un-needed. The current battery is sealed inside a steel box with only a small vent to allow equalizing of barometric pressure and off-gassing. Heat is either radiated off the side of the steel box or transferred to the metal of the frame.
Bigger fan would be an upgrade of the Kiundai approach of air-cooled

Do Not Read Between The Lines

Still, obligatory xkcd link:
https://xkcd.com/1378/

The 60 kWh battery is what we need . I don’t care about all the negativity . The leaf is stilll the best selling ev worldwide per inside ev’s check out martyn on ev news daily on YouTube .

If you only need a commuter car for around town the 2011 and 2012 LEAfs are excellent cars to. Try to fnd an EV with twice the range of your daily commute. If your commute is only 10 or 15 miles you can still drive a 2011 or 2012 LEAF with the original battery for the rest of your life. Excellent second or third cars. Why pay $26,000 for a neighborhood car when you can get a reliable road safe LEAF for $5,000.

People keep promulgating this as if it says anything important about anything. There’s ZERO solid evidence that the lack of active cooling matters in actual use, as the people who bought the cars have actually used them. Degradation data so far indicates there’s little if any difference between Tesla S and X and Leaf. How can that be, if active cooling is such an essential part of battery pack design? It’s not good for consumers if this flawed thinking leads to this incorrect belief taking hold among the general, car-buying public. It just means every manufacturer will put bs hardware in the cars that does nothing useful for the buyer, but does something useful for the manufacturer — raise the price of their goods, increasing revenue and profits. Unfortunately most people are extremely poorly prepared to look at data and draw correct conclusions from it. As Ben Goldacre likes to say, there’s a lot of “I think you’ll find it’s a bit more complicated than that” involved. When you compare Model S or X with the Leaf, and you’re interested in the effect of active cooling, there isn’t really any way to tell just by looking at data, because there’s… Read more »

The degradation is a result of the amount of time the batteries spend at or near 100% charge. Hence Tesla begging their owners not to charge to 100% Not sure how the fake news about active cooling got correlated with battery degradation. Active cooling was added to cars to keep some of them from catching on fire. Two Teslas last week with the cheap 18650 batteries caught on fire. Another owner burned alive. IF you like your Tesla X or S you should be raising cain at Tesla for continuing to sell the defective cars and get them to replace the batteries with long lasting reliable gigafactory batteries. They have known for years those batteries are dangerous.

Another Tesla battery burned yesterday, Bumped the bottom on a rock when they were going ice fishing.

When Leaf 2.0 was coming out, Nissan counted my request for more information as a pre-order. Don’t let these numbers fool you.

I ended up with the Ioniq EV.

Why on earth was this down-voted

Because he ended up with the Ioniq. That’s not a Tesla, so the cult disapproves.

Because it was fake information and disinformational.

I reserved my LEAF in 2010 and I couldn’t get it for 18 months. It was worth the wait. However there are so many different models available now there is no need for anyone to wait for a EV. Just make sure if you get an EV get one with twice the range of your daily commute.

It amazes me that they could have fumbled this so badly. it is not like they are bringing a completely new car to market and they control the manufacturing of a larger percentage of the important components than most companies because of their battery production.

All I can guess is that they thought the 35,000$ Model 3 would be out sooner because this is their window of opportunity to sell a decent number of these cars without the deep discount it will probably require once the M3 ships. At that point the weaknesses in the Leaf battery design and lack of charging infrastructure will probably require some serious discounting to sell many cars.

The one topic I have never heard discussed is what the margins are on the Leaf. BMW at least breaks even on the i3, GM loses money on every Bolt, nobody knows anything about the Kia and Hyundai, so is Nissan’s lack-luster enthusiasm for the Leaf due to its build cost?

The article doesn’t make it clear that this is just the ‘limited edition” trim of the E-plus.

Remains to be seen how the ‘leaf 2.5’ 60kWh versions of S, SV, and SL sell…

It seemed like they said 1,000 orders the first day and then 2,000 more orders the next three days?

They should still have thousands of orders waiting on the regular cars. Supply limited. great car. Hopefully the the other EVs will sell just as well. Th eGolf and Model 3 are off to a good start too.

Nissan likely has enough volume production of the Leaf for it to be profitable.

And GM is increasing production and export of the Bolt, so unlikely they are losing money on each Bolt.

GM CEO Mary Barra said on Feb 6,2019 that GM will not make money on EVs until early next decade.

There is a difference between having a positive margin on each sale, and being negative on the entire project. The Bolt EV is negative on the entire project as something like $750 Million or $1 Billion in development means if they only sell 100,000 of them they have about $10,000 per car in R&D expenses (I don’t know what that car cost to make and market, but probably in that range).

Leaf is negative counting R&D, but positive for each car sold. The Bolt EV is probably the same. Remember, there are supposed to be other cars on Bolt EV platform, so those will have much cheaper development costs and same is true for Leaf. It will take many years to pay off the platform development. Tesla is down billions as well, I suspect around $10,000 per car in R&D, but that will drop dramatically over the next 10 years.

And that assumes GM is still around…

Since we are in the worthless speculation mood, let me add my pet hypothesis: they have enough Leaf sales as it is to get their fleet average low enough to make all the SUVs they can sell. That’s where the profits come from, nearly exclusively as I’ve understood it. But it is worth making and selling a few e+, while pretending they had no idea there’s so much demand, in order not to look so far behind the competition — or rather, to actually PROVE they aren’t really behind technologically, and can make a car that charges real fast and is great also for people who take lots of long trips. I think it doesn’t matter if the EV nuts like us notice. In Norway, where a third of new cars sold in 2018 were BEVs and the fleet share has just exceeded 7%, perhaps 5% of people read any EV news sites (I’m just guessing). In the US, I’m guessing it’s more like 0.1%. If this is anywhere near correct, Nissans actions look like a sensible business decision — and that’s why I think it is a plausible hypothesis. But that’s all it is! I have no way to… Read more »

You do not have to speculate about the LEAF, It is an outstanding car. One of the most reliable cars ever made.

Hyundai/Kia actually said they don’t expect profits for a few years.

Nissan OTOH claimed they are on the verge of profitability… More or less. The wording was somewhat vague.

Nissan said they are making money on the Leaf. Also matches their sales behaviour. No limited supply, wide availability indicates profit

Nissan has said that they make money on the leaf, discounting R&D (Ghosn 2014), however, estimates are they had spent around $5 Billion on the project at that point. Given cumulative Leaf sales under 400,000, that is more than $10,000 per car. They are likely still negative on the project.

Looks like cumulative Renault/Nissan/Mitsu sales were over 540,000 up to last Jan, so over 600,000 counting this year. A bit less than $10k per vehicle R&D. Still negative. They need to sell several million. https://insideevs.com/renault-nissan-mitsubishi-sold-540623-electric-vehicles-since-2010/

This begs the question, if Nissan spent over $5 B on EV R&D (up to 2014), that isn’t much less than Tesla, maybe more by now. Who had the better investment?

Nissan is a profitable corp.

We have always had good service too. I have owned Datsuns and Nissans. I also like Toyotas and Hondas too and I have always gotten good service from them too.

Nissan has been making LION EVs for over 20 years now. The LEAF is their fifth model EV. Hopefully they will introduce new models soon.

That was old data, they are probably up to about 8 or 10 LION EVs now.

Nissan R&D was spread out over 8 or 10 different models built in Smyrna and several other factories all over the world. I think they make 5 different EV models now, maybe six. The LEAF is the only one sold in the States.

The 3 has already shipped.The Leaf is the only EV sold for a profit.

This is the best car Nissan has ever made. Every bit the equal of any Prius, Camry, Corolla, or CRV we have owned. Go try it out. If you use your LEAF in the 20-80% charge range like Tesla is begging their owners to do it will last 20 years. We saw a 2018 LEAF for as low as $21,000 in Birmingham after incentives. Last car many families will ever need. MY LEAF is going on 8 years old now, I bought it to save my 4×4 truck. Turns out it is a lot better and tougher than my truck. When you select your EV, find one with twice the range of your daily commute, you need that extra range for heat, AC, and extra errands.

I don’t think they need worry about meeting demand in NA.

You expect the the Tennessee plant to produce enough volume?

No. I don’t demand to exceed their ability to meet it, in NA.

What is going on! It does not seem to matter who you are, if you are not Tesla then shipment are being delayed (sometimes up to a year) or production is cut back.

The only model where they seem to increase production in the Taycan, and that is not shipping yet.

The EV demand inflection point. We’re finally reaching it…

It would only be an inflection point if growth was actually slowing, and then accelerates again… While that’s occasionally the case in individual markets, global growth follows a rather exponential trajectory since 2012. Although I haven’t actually checked this, I wouldn’t expect seeing any inflection points after 2012…

(Also, most BEV models have had long waiting lists in Europe for a while now — so if there was such a point, we already passed it…)

I saw a white SL Plus in the back lot of a Texas Nissan dealership already. Labeled as a training car, but this must mean it’s releasing sooner than later right? The salesman didn’t even know it was the plus until I pointed to the badge. He couldn’t find the keys though so we couldn’t turn it on or really poke around in it.

Oh oh

Same news as from Hyundai. Everyone just doing copy paste. Whether they don’t want to sell or cannot sell is not known.
Chinese are coming.

No liquid cooled battery = limited sales to knowledgeable EV buyers.

Do Not Read Between The Lines

<< sales to people in countries with mild climates + sales to not knowledgeable people.

I live in a mild climate (Seattle) and many of the used LEAFs in my area still have significant battery capacity loss.

Pre 03/2013 build date Leafs, that are frequently charged up to 100% on L1 home charging infrastructure, are going to be among some of battery degradation leaders.

If you charge to 100% set your timer to finish just before you head out, do not charge to 100% 8 hours before you head out. The degradation is proportional to the amount of time at 100% charge plus heat. many taxis drivers charge to 100% all the time but use the car immediately after so it doesn’t sit at 100%. They are getting may years of great service.

Make sure they know not to leave the LEAF cars sitting at 100% charge all the time. That is a common mistake many Tesla and LEAF owners are making. It is very sad to see degraded EVs with few miles on them.

I live in a hot climate and my LEAF batteries will last a lifetime.

That’s just a hoax about the batteries getting hot.

It’s sad to see Nissan shooting itself in both feet. No heat pump in North America and low supply in Europe. It’s pretty clear they don’t understand the shape of a hockey stick or realize how vertical the demand curve for BEVs has become. A tricked out, 200+ mile car is the closest to a Tesla-killer anyone is going to get. Take the money and run, Nissan. People are begging to give it to you.

No Liquid TMS for any of the 200 + mi. Road trip EVs (any Nissan Leaf), is an absolute nonstarter.

We went on a out of town road trip in my wifes 40kWh LEAF over the weekend with 3 quick charges and we had no problems with heat. That rapidgate video is a hoax prepared by a fellah that gets his Tesla’s for free.

Do Not Read Between The Lines

No, really, there’s plenty of demand for a long-range BEV?

Who knew (apart from all the people on the waiting lists)?

1984, driving into Los Angeles Ca. USA, with roomate, my question “Hey Keith, why are my eyes burning”?
Answer; “It used to be much worse”!!!
This is why we need all electric machines. Especially China’s big cities, death is in the air. Google “lung cancer in China from people who do not smoke or under age 40”, It is criminal. do not travel to large Chinese cities without an expensive mask to breathe through!

Most of the people I know who have moved to Houston have developed breathing problems of some degree. Our state government can’t be trusted to say anything that goes against the petrochemical industry, and we typically move here because we want cheap housing and low taxes, which the petrochemical industry helps make feasible. So we are all collaborating with our own murderers to cover up the cause of our own eventual deaths.

As if basically everyone didn’t say, the moment e+ was announced, that the planned production would fall far short of demand! There’s no way Nissan didn’t know — they conduct market research, unlike the rest of us.

But for one reason or another, they don’t want to meet demand at the moment. In Nissan’s case I would guess it’s not the fleet emissions, since the Leaf presumably has given them enough headroom to make as many SUVs as they can sell (and probably still sell certificates to manufacturers that don’t).

Pretending Nissan has to recalibrate its expectations sends the message that Nissan had no idea, was totally surprised by this out of left field development. I think you should rise above that level of journalism.

Join the discussion

Well I guess this is good news they cannot make enough cars to satisfy demand. Hopefully Elon or the Japenese or Chinese will find a Lithium cobalt asteroid. Tesla hopefully does have secure supply of Lithium from their Nevada mine.

Excellent cars. If you do not do a lot of out of town driving the 40KWh LEAF is an excellent car too. We got a slightly used one for $13 grand below retail and took our first trip out of town over the weekend. It didn’t heat or anything which leads me to suspect that the Tesla Borjn fellahs rapidgate videos are a total hoax. He just wants to get another free Tesla through his referral program.