Watch Nissan’s Live LEAF Debut In Tokyo Now – video

2 months ago by Jay Cole 158

Nissan has debuted the all-new LEAF at a special event in Japan…and as with all major plug-in vehicle launches, you can watch it live right here!  (…but you might want to skip ahead to the 16:30 mark of the archived video)

2018 Nissan Leak spied at Oppama Plant

The 2018 Nissan LEAF is expected to be offered with a base 40 kWh battery, from about $30,000 (in USD).This entry level should net at least 150 miles/240 km of real world (EPA) range.

Update:  Full details on the 2018 Nissan LEAF (specs, range, pricing, photo gallerys, video, etc) can be found in out follow-up reports here, here, here, and here)

In addition, a larger battery option is also expected to follow (~60 kWh), pushing the new LEAF’s total range well past 200 miles, making it a more direct competitor to the Chevrolet Bolt EV (Opel Ampera-e) and new Tesla Model 3.

The 2018 LEAF is said to be arriving very regionally in late December in the US, with Americans in 50 states (and Europeons) seeing the model’s arrival in early 2018

The event takes place in Tokyo, Japan at 9:30 AM (GMT +9) on September 6th – which means the following dates/times for other locations:

  • Eastern Time USA – September 5th – 8:30 PM
  • Pacific Time USA – September 5th – 5:30 PM
  • Europe (UK) – September 6th – 1:30 AM
  • Europe (Germany) – September 6th – 2:30 AM

So, mark the date and time on the calendar and we will see you back here to watch the LEAF’s debut live from Japan!

Gallery (below):  Some of Nissan official teasers for the 2018 LEAF, and some spyshots of our own

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158 responses to "Watch Nissan’s Live LEAF Debut In Tokyo Now – video"

  1. Adam says:

    Will US pricing be announced on September 5th?

    1. SJC says:

      The base is $30,000.

    2. Viking79 says:

      They said 40 kwh with pro pilot will be comparable to current leaf. Also, higher motor power and larger battery next year.

    3. Alltesla says:

      I guess I person could not make the presentation

  2. speculawyer says:

    What would really make the LEAF much more enticing would be to add a SAE-CCS port to it so it could DC-fast charge from both Chademo & CCS. But I guess they are too damn stubborn.

    1. unlucky says:

      I’d love it if they did that, but I can’t see how Nissan could justify the added cost.

      1. Easy, make it an Option! The buyers who want it will pay the cost.

        I agree, there is likely some development costs in making it happen, that they might find difficult to justify, but Leafs could then charge up at VW & BMW Dealers then, too!

        1. unlucky says:

          That’s not really what I meant. I believe I didn’t express myself well.

          I meant it would be great if Nissan were to switch to CCS. If CCS is optional than that isn’t really going to happen.

          I guess there is some value in an optional CCS input. But I think perhaps at that point just make an adapter instead.

        2. Someone out there says:

          Yes, why can’t they make the charging interface a replaceable module? The standards all do the same thing, they just differ a little bit in the information exchange protocol but that can be fixed with an embedded microcontroller.

          1. KenZ says:

            Unfortunately they don’t do the same thing. It’s more than a signals issue; something about how the ground is used? Someone more versed in the particulars can speak up, but I know it’s a lot more involved than a controller and an adapter.

          2. unlucky says:

            Depending on the length of the cables (location of the charge port) by far the most expensive part of a DCFC connector is the connector itself. To carry that much current and voltage requires a beefy, expensive connector.

            If you want a swappable connector, now that means you have to have to add two more connectors. You have to add an intermediate male and female connectors so you can part them and swap out the short (pigtail) portion.

            That’s going to add a lot of cost.

    2. Chive says:

      Stubborn? Ha. I’d say all the other manufacturers were the stubborn ones.

      There are way more CHAdeMO than SAE Combo plugs…. Nissan will continue to be a leader, it’s the charge companies that need to offer both plug options.

      1. unlucky says:

        CHAdeMO is already behind the curve on technical development. And with only Japanese makes backing it (and of them only Nissan actually does anything) it’s going to only fall further behind.

        CCS is already available at higher powers and it’s going to go even higher. And it appears it is going to go to 800V too. If Nissan wants these benefits on CHAdeMO they’re going to have to foot the bill for a lot of the engineering themselves because the company that made CHAdeMO is TEPCO and is now very broke due to their problems at Fukushima Daiichi.

        And with the EU ending the installation of public CHAdeMO chargers in favor of CCS there’s no future for CHAdeMO in that market. Nissan simply has to develop CCS at some point if they want to sell in Europe. Why not now and why not for North America as well as for Europe?

        1. MaartenV-nl says:

          According to the specs, CHAdeMO and CCS are nearly identical. Both can be configured to 350kW-400kW, something no car in the world can use. All modern chargers have both plugs with the same speed of charging.

          CHAdeMO has more practical experience in V2G and V2H and as emergency source of energy.

        2. zzzzzzzzzz says:

          Where exactly EU is ending installation of Chademo? It is standardized as Type 4. Public chargers in EU and US are double standard in most places. Third party owners are certainly not going to restrict their client base for no reason. Some chargers in the US are Chademo only. In Japan almost all chargers are Chademo and going to stay this way.

          Nissan may switch or not switch to Type 1 or Type 2 in separate regions but it will change almost nothing for users. As of practical matter, right now in the US Chademo has some minor advantage over CCS and I would choose to buy it if everything else would be the same.

    3. MaartenV-nl says:

      Do you know of any CCS chargers that do not offer CHAdeMO at the same charging rate?

      1. Mikael says:

        Yes I do. And stations where there are a number of CCS chargers but only one Chademo.

        For example Laddplats Leksand and Laddplats Rättvik with 100 kW CCS and 62,5 kW Chademo.

        1. Dan says:

          In the US, almost all of our fast chargers are dual. The only places that have only CCS are auto dealerships that only have the one for their make.

    4. Brave Lil' Toaster says:

      Why would you want to have less than half the number of charging stations at your disposal?

      1. John M Glennie says:

        It’s one charging station, with two connectors. You have a choice, which connector/one or the other to use.

      2. mustang_sallad says:

        Well, the original poster suggested both Chademo and CCS on the same car, which I figured was the best I could hope for if Nissan were to gradually transition to CCS. The need for two standards adds unnecessary complexity to infrastructure deployment, which needs all the help it can get, and with Nissan being essentially the only manufacturer sticking with Chademo (Honda and Hyundai/Kia both going CCS, Toyota TBD) it’s only so long before infrastructure deployment decides to cut out Chademo. I suppose Nissan just delayed that eventuality, but it’s too bad, they could have taken the higher ground and put an end to this speed bump along the way to broader EV adoption.

  3. speculawyer says:

    150 miles for $30K is pretty good. It would be a medium range EV but at least the price is palatable.

    1. If it could retail at $30,000 in Ontario, Canada, it could sell a lot here in 2018, if the $14,000 rebate remains! It would be a better net deal than the iMiEV was, with 2.5X to 3X the range!

      1. Mint says:

        The 2017 Leaf starts at $34k in Canada (somehow cheaper than in the US), so I’m hoping for a Leaf SV with ProPilot for $39k. If I can get it in Dec/Jan, then I’m sold.

        Otherwise, I’m getting a Volt ASAP. Model 3 is too far away, and with autopilot around $55k in Canada.

        1. unlucky says:

          Given how little ProPilot does, I’m sure it’ll cost less than $5K.

          1. Mint says:

            According to the leak, it’s a mere US$900 option on the SV.

            Do you know more about ProPilot than I do? I thought it was a proper auto steer adaptive cruise control, except a hand is needed on the wheel.

            1. unlucky says:

              It’s basically what is on the Honda accord right now.

              It’s lane holding (that actually tries to center, doesn’t just ping-pong between dotted lines) with adaptive cruise. I don’t think I would call it “autosteer” personally.

              With the $5K delta I thought you were trying to compare it to Tesla’s autopilot. Even though Nissan demoed self-driving to press, ProPilot isn’t that.

              1. Mint says:

                That’s enough functionality to be useful, IMO. I have a long commute, and mostly highway.

                In Canada, The Leaf S is $34,000 and the SV is $37,400. ProPilot is only available on the SV, and costs US$900, according to the leak.

                So that’s where my $5k guess comes from.

                1. William says:

                  I wonder who will be the first “driver” to nod off at the wheel, of a Lane Keeping 2018 Nissan Leaf, and run out of juice/power, on one of our US interstates left lanes? It might just be somewhere on the long and straight I-5 here in central California.

        2. John M Glennie says:

          Yes, my date for my Model 3 is Late 2018, and even that for Canadians, could be pushed further away, but it’s the only EV I may be able to afford, with Super Charging in less than an hour, for 75 kWh battery. I’ll look and test drive the Leaf though. -2015 SL owner

      2. Quebec 100% EV says:

        It will not be 30K Canadian, it’s 30K USD.
        A Nissan dealer here in Quebec told me that they will retail the base 2018 Leaf in Canada at around the same price as the current base 2017 Leaf S price, i.e. 34K Canadian. Will still be an amazing deal in Ontario at 20K Canadian after the provincial incentive. And a decently good deal at 26K Canadian in Quebec after the provincial incentive. For 40kwh with over 150 mile range it will be the most cost competitive (until Hyundai decides to get their act together and put a 40kwh battery in the Ioniq EV and lower the price a bit to match the base Leaf).

    2. SJC says:

      If the packs reduce range too much over time then forget it.

    3. mx says:

      By all rights, this should be a Prius killer.

  4. KenZ says:

    While I will not be getting one of these (*as I am happy with my used 2013 Leaf which is doing just fine at 52k miles*), I am extremely interested in this release. With a less polarizing appearance, moderate various improvements, and hitting the “reasonable low end range” at an affordable price, it’s the logical next step for them. That is, assuming they later come out with a larger battery option which gives >200 miles, but seriously people this thing will sell like crazy in Europe, and probably pretty well in the US. Go Nissan!!!!

    1. speculawyer says:

      Yeah, I like that are hitting a nice empty market spot by providing 150 miles range for $30K. At $22.5K after tax-credit and with 150 miles, it is a great car that can handle pretty much everything except long trips.

      1. menorman says:

        It might be okay on long trips if they put in 150kW CHAdeMO option. Obviously, no such stations exist yet for the public, but the standard can handle it.

        1. MaartenV-nl says:

          I think charging at over a 100kW is the reason for the open letter asking Nissan to join the Tesla SC network.

        2. William says:

          There is a (Non-Public) Chargepoint station in Baker, Ca, that is experimental and can potentially charge at 150 kW. They will have to give us access when the 2018 Leaf 60 kWh version becomes “possibly” available in May/June.

  5. Courtney vegan says:

    Let’s hope they follow Tesla’s lead and get rid of leather. Personally,I don’t think the range can match the bolt.i wonder if they want to get out of the ev game.

    1. Mark.ca says:

      Matching the Bolt range is not that relevant as anything over 150 miles is more than enough for almost everyone. For this particular model more important would be for the battery to protected so this range is preserved over the years.

      1. Arizona owners would agree with that requirement, a lot! Along with a better and stronger range guarantee!

        1. SparkEV says:

          It’s not just AZ. We hit 114F in San Diego couple of days ago. I had the SparkEV plugged in so the TMS would keep the battery nice and cool as well as charging it (lots of solar in the neighborhood). If it’s Leaf without TMS, I wouldn’t charge it in fear of having even higher heat for the battery. I’d be even hesitant to drive it in such temperature, because far higher power is needed when driving.

          If your work allow you to call in “I won’t be going to work today, because it’s too hot for my EV”, it may work for you. But for everyone else, no TMS means awful car.

          1. Mark.ca says:

            You are just being a drama queen now. Remember most of these are leases so the owners will not even think about these things. Besides, latest studies found that the optimal discharge temp is as high as 140F. The charging high temp is around 110F but I’m not sure if L1 charging will negatively affect it since there will be less heat generated at that level. L2 should do some damage above 110F. These should be fun times for you…no traffic at the chargers.

            1. SparkEV says:

              If optimal discharge temp is 140F, all the EV companies are doing terrible things to the battery by trying to keep them way under 140F. Either you are wrong or EV companies (other than Nissan) are wrong, and I tend to trust EV companies over some random forum poster.

              As for 110F for charging, read my post. San Diego hit 114F only about 30 miles from the sea. According to your out-of-arse battery health, even that’s too hot to charge. No, I’m not getting out the L1 and long extension cord.

              As I said, if the home temperature is 114F, there’s no way I’d go anywhere with Leaf since getting anywhere require large hill that will expend >40kW hill climbs. Heck, I’d even be afraid to park it in the garage. All I can do is watch the battery slowly decay under heat.

              1. Mark.ca says:

                Up to 140…we were talking about extreme temp, no? I gave you the top range.

              2. Mark.ca says:

                I was about to post the link to the study but i think you should get of your ass and do the work yourself and actually learn something.

                1. SparkEV says:

                  I won’t bother looking up nonsense. If 140F is part of “optimal temperature”, all EV makers except Nissan and VW are wasting tremendous amount of resources in material, labor, and cost to implement TMS.

                  So you can choose to believe some bogus study by some quacks, or you can choose to believe the engineers that actually make the best EV in the world. I suspect you’ll continue to believe in daffy duck.

                  1. unlucky says:

                    Maybe he’s thinking of sulfur batteries? Those like high temps.

                    With Li-Ions you can alter the chemistry to change the optimum operating temperature somewhat. But no one would adjust theirs to optimize for 140F (if that’s even possible) since then that means the pack would be operating in non-optimal range most of the time.

                    1. SparkEV says:

                      I doubt Leaf will come with Sulfur batteries.

                      Pretty much everyone in the industry agrees that LiIon is best kept in human comfortable temperatures. For anyone to suggest 140F as acceptable is just plain insanely ludicrous.

                  2. Nick says:

                    “Basically, temperature increases LiB’s performance in a short term by increasing its capacity. But it also increases the degradation rate of Qm as shown in Fig. 5.”

                    Higher temp seems to improve all LiCo performance characteristics except degradation rate. Surprising.

              3. ModernMarvelFan says:

                “Besides, latest studies found that the optimal discharge temp is as high as 140F”

                Completely FULL of CRAP.

                That is 60 deg C. No battery will discharge well at that temperature. That is asking for trouble. Which study are you referring to? Are you cherry picking data. Yes, provide the links or you are just spinning crap here.

            2. SparkEV says:

              I stopped by 5 different DCFC, mostly just to see how clogged they are. Every single one had Bolt + something, mostly i3 and few Leaf. There was one near the coast with Bolt + 3 Leaf. I don’t know if it’s due to Leaf people knowing not to use DCFC in hot temperature and drove out there, or just by coincidence.

              In fact, I don’t wait much for Leaf these days. I think free charging Leaf people saw DCFC always occupied with Bolt and they just go home. Unfortunately for them, they’d also be waiting tons if they actually needed to use DCFC.

              1. Ziv says:

                The EVGo DCFC near me is always blocked by Leaf taxis. All the time. The only person driving a Bolt or an i3 is there is after midnight.

                1. Ziv says:

                  ARghh… EVGo CHAdeMo…

                2. Ziv says:

                  CHAdeMO doesn’t work for a Bolt or i3, so whoever I was seeing talking about charging at 1230 am was not driving a Bolt or i3… Sometimes I wonder about my own sanity…

                  1. Dan says:

                    Most EVGo are dual – Chademo and CCS. It’s not that hard. Press button for SAE or ChaDeMo. Pick up correct connector. Press Start.

                  2. SparkEV says:

                    Perhaps too many 420?

                    1. William says:

                      Or, not enough at 12:30a.m. , which is way late to be needing an F.C. D.C. electron bump!

          2. Djoni says:

            An another undocumented comment?
            Cooling the car cabin might draw some power but it is a lot easier to move through the air with less aerodynamic friction and tire friction.
            The maximum highway range would be obtain at a pretty high temperature and certainly not at a cold one.
            I don’t have any independent data, other than my experience and all the best range I have done is in pretty hot weather.

            Unless your stuck in traffic with A/C blasting, it is not a big concern.

            1. SparkEV says:

              AC is about 2 kW or less if you use it in auto (I always blast full). Driving at 25 MPH is about 3 kW (higher with heavier Leaf) without AC. At 55 MPH is about 10 kW (again, higher in Leaf), 5 times that of AC blast. In terms of heat damage to the battery, AC is negligible.

              You are confusing range with battery degradation. I often see Leaf with at least one “bar” down. That’s about 12% degradation, and some see this as short as 20K miles. With SparkEV, that’s about 100K miles of driving since 80K miles lost bit under 10%.

              1. William says:

                Some 2013 Leafs lose their first BAR (13-14%) at 4 years +, 45k mi. for example – mine a few months back in July. Keep it real, not every one charges to 100% on a 24/7/365 basis. Keep it between 80% and 20% SOC on pre 2015 Nissan Leafs and you can get to 10 years /100 k mi. before degrading the dreaded 30%.

            2. unlucky says:

              I did a 1,000 mile trip recently and I can say that for sure as it gets hot climate control becomes very significant.

              As it gets warmer, the thin air does help. Even with the climate control on you do well. But once it gets past about 90F and the sun is out you can’t afford to have the climate off you start to use a lot of energy on climate. My car was reading about 10-12% energy put into climate control when the temp was in the high 100s (F).

              It is interesting though, at those temps you actually lose less range by driving quicker because you are already spending a lot on cooling yourself and you spend less total time driving (and cooling) if you drive quicker.

              I was getting 4.1mi/kWh driving 70 when it was temperate, even with the climate on. Once the temps got above 105 my efficiencies dropped to 3.6-3.8 mi/kWh.

            3. Djonii says:

              2 kW for A/C??
              Never went over 700 watts in my Leaf, and this got to be full blast.
              A/C is so little power that I don’t even bother.
              Heating on the other end is awesome.
              It could draw 6 kW at -25c° and still not providing enough heat to get you comfortable.
              If you add the higher aerodynamic load, the winter tire, the sloppy pavement, and the slow reacting electrolyte of the battery you get a big impact on range.
              It does cut range by half easily.

    2. Will says:

      Yes leather

    3. unlucky says:

      I don’t see why they can’t match the Bolt range. I just don’t see how the leaked prices would cover it.

      It was something like $30K/$34K/$36K for the 3 configurations (S/SV/SL). And I can’t see how a battery bump would be included in any of those prices unless one of the listed upgrades included literally nothing except the battery bump.

      1. Or, the two upper grades allow the battery bump up to the 60 kWh level, as a separate option?

        1. Tom says:

          That’s a logical hypothesis. We are about to find out I suppose.

  6. Joe says:

    40kWh only?? For 30k?
    should be 26k

    If only they had a 500km real word range option at 36k

    1. menorman says:

      After federal and state incentives, the $30k turns into as low as $17.5k in Colorado. That’s hard to argue with.

  7. georgeS says:

    I am mainly interested in the details of who makes the 60 kwh battery and whether it is liquid cooled.

    30K for 40 kwh doesn’t seem like a super deal but Jay had good reasons why it will be OK since Nissan has good lease terms and u can buy a stripped one.

    1. Would a 3 year lease of a new 150 Mile Range, 40 kWh Leaf, at $199/Mo create a demand for this?

      The 65-68 Mile Rated Range 2014 Smart ED leasing for $99.00/Mo caused those to go fast!

      1. menorman says:

        It’ll fly off the lot in CA, especially if there’s less down than the rebate.

      2. georgeS says:

        “Would a 3 year lease of a new 150 Mile Range, 40 kWh Leaf, at $199/Mo create a demand for this?”

        -Robert

        Of course.

        I think BoltEV leases are considerably more…like in the 500$/mo range. Bro would know.

        But GM will start discounting BoltEV more. They did that with Spark.

        1. Asak says:

          Bolt leases are more like in the high 200s after rebates, at least for the LTs.

          1. Mark.ca says:

            We don’t do the math after rebates but before. The rebates you get may be different than the ones I qualify for.

          2. Mark.ca says:

            http://ev-vin.blogspot.com/
            The Bolt leases in Cali for about $10k total lease for 36 months which is high 200’s before any state and utility rebate. In my case would be $190/month after all credits.

        2. WadeTyhon says:

          I lease an optioned up Bolt Premier. I put down ~$1000 up front + a $500 deposit I had already paid towards the car. After taxes and such (which is high on leases in Texas) my lease is $505. A base Bolt should be cheaper.

          But for anyone leasing in Texas next year it should qualify for the $2500 state rebate. The last rebate covered leases and purchases.

          The leaf leases should hopefully be far more affordable for the average driver though.

          1. ZrC says:

            $500 for a Bolt lease is insane. I got my loaded Bolt Premier for $350 with no money down and I don’t even live in CA.

            1. WadeTyhon says:

              You got a good deal then!

              What state? How much upfront? Texas taxes add quite a bit to an expensive vehicle like the Bolt – since we pay tax on the entire value of the vehicle.

          2. John Ray says:

            Texas and Georgia have similar tax laws that penalize leasing. Fortunately, I believe Georgia’s is changing in January January

            1. WadeTyhon says:

              Yep… it is quite annoying. Although I have very good credit, my price is above the average most people can expect.

              Most people outside Texas should expect a lease in the 400’s on a premier, 300’s or lower on an LT… especially in states like Colorado and California. Next year, the Texas leasing situation will improve with the EV rebate.

          3. Mark.ca says:

            That’s a horrible deal compared to what we have here in Cali. See the link i posted above and add $1500-2000 on top of the total lease $ for tax and fees to get the grand total. You are looking at about $10k for the base for 3 tears.

        3. unlucky says:

          No they aren’t. I see the TV ads. Obviously none of us are talking about the down money. But if you’re just talking monthly payments Bolt is already in the $200 range in California already. Nissan would have to go lower to make a splash.

          1. Mark.ca says:

            I included the money down for all my posts, that’s what a total lease $ is. I’m not sure why some think that is not important and the monthly is all that counts. I heard the same bs from a dealer last month trying to negotiate a Volt….they were like tell us what you want your monthly to be and will tell you by how much your down increases…gee, thanks.

  8. bro1999 says:

    That would be something if GM decided to launch a national ad campaign for the Bolt the day following the Leaf unveil, huh?

    1. William says:

      GM is probably going to pretty much ignore the Nissan Leaf unveil event. I think GM interests, as it concerns their Bolt and its monthly growing sales figures, are going to be closely monitoring the Tesla Model 3 “Production Hell” ramp up in the next 120 days / 2017 year end.

      Until Nissan has a 200 mile + 2018.5 Leaf 2.0 for sale, that is actually available for sale on Dealer lots, GM has no significant competition from the other ICE manufacturers, just yet. This GM Bolt 200 + mile range ICE manufacturers advantage, will change in the next 6-9 months.

      1. Pushmi-Pullyu says:

        GM has no rational reason to advertise the Bolt EV. They are making little if any profit on it, so more sales won’t earn them much if any more money. Any extra advertising money they have is much better invested in promoting just about any other car that they sell.

        Elon Musk said that GM wouldn’t make more than 25k-30k Bolt EVs in a year, because that’s all the carbon credits they need from the car. Looks like he was right!

        http://insideevs.com/elon-musk-talks-carb-zev-credits/

        1. unlucky says:

          Pushy, those “carbon” credits (actually CARB credits) only apply in CARB states. If GM only sold the car for the credits it wouldn’t be sold outside CARB states and it wouldn’t be sold in Canada.

          Heck, next year there are no credit transfers for cars sold outside California. So under Musk’s theory they would only sell it in California in 2018.

          It’s pretty clear Musk’s theory is false.

          1. WadeTyhon says:

            Obviously Chevy will sell as many vehicles as possible in CARB states first to recuperate development costs faster.

            But that is the same for Tesla and any other EV automaker who intends to make a profit on their vehicles.

          2. Keaven says:

            FYI There are 3 provinces right now that are offering incentives in Canada to buy EVs (Québec, Ontario and British Columbia).

            Québec has a zero emission law like some states in the US.

            People want that car so much in Québec that you can’t get a Bolt EV unless you wait between 6-8 months.

            1. Quebec 100% EV says:

              Keaven – Here in Quebec I was hearing the same reports of 6 months + waiting lists for the Bolt, but I believe the wait has since subsided to 2-3 months at certain dealerships since my girlfriend’s colleague just got a Bolt in Montreal (west island, i think they live just west of vaudreuil) and they only waited 2 or 3 months.

            2. unlucky says:

              Those incentives go to the customer, not GM. If GM were selling the Bolt only to get credits for themselves this wouldn’t change that situation at all.

              Quebec’s mandate doesn’t start until 2018. It wouldn’t cause GM to sell Bolts in Quebec in 2017. In fact, if that mandate sticks, it’ll probably cause GM to constrict supply of Bolts until 2018 because they would rather get the credits for the 2018 sale than sell a car to a customer this year and not get them.

              1. David S. says:

                Under Quebec’s ZEV law, sales of model-years 2014 to 2017 give credits to the manufacturer. So there’s no harm if they start before 2018. They accumulate credits that can be used (or re-sold) later if needed.

          3. Pushmi-Pullyu says:

            “If GM only sold the car for the credits it wouldn’t be sold outside CARB states and it wouldn’t be sold in Canada.”

            And that’s pretty close to what’s happening, isn’t it! There is a lot of demand from S. Korea, Canada, and other countries which isn’t being satisfied; which GM has no intention whatsoever of satisfying. We are also seeing a lot of complaints posted here on InsideEVs from people in non-CARB states who would like to at lest look at the car, but their local dealers are telling them it’s not available.

            Furthermore, it seems reasonable to believe that the Bolt EV would sell better in Europe than in the USA, yet only a small percentage of the production is going to Europe, and none at all to left-hand-drive countries.

            Of course, no units sold in Europe, or any left-hand-drive country, will earn GM any ZEV credits. Coincidence? You may think so, Unlucky, but I don’t!

            “Heck, next year there are no credit transfers for cars sold outside California. So under Musk’s theory they would only sell it in California in 2018.”

            Well, we’ll see what happens next year. If you’re right, then we should see GM shift from sales from CARB States outside California, to more European sales.

            “It’s pretty clear Musk’s theory is false.”

            No, I’d say that’s just you. Seems pretty clear to me he’s bang on the mark, at least for the first year of production.

        2. SparkEV says:

          If GM is making so little money or losing money, why the heck would they want to lose even more money by selling in Korea, Canada, Europe? In fact, why do they even lose money by selling in non CARB states?

          Musk the cult leader has you fooled.

          1. Mint says:

            For PR, that’s why.

            I’ve been to several Chevy dealerships in Ontario, and I see 2 or more floor-to-ceiling banners showing the Bolt is the Car of the Year.

            Chevy built the Bolt for CARB credits, and since it’s already in production, they’re sprinkling a few cars elsewhere for PR, i.e. to show off technology, draw people to the showroom, and to claim that they beat Tesla in making the first mass market long range EV.

            1. SparkEV says:

              PR for what? If the premise is that GM only make compliance cars and not interested in making EV, there’s no point in having PR in areas without compliance mandate, especially if they are making less profit / losing money.

              If you don’t believe GM wants to sell EV, PR argument makes no sense.

              1. Pushmi-Pullyu says:

                I agree it makes no sense on a strictly logical basis. But that doesn’t mean it’s not happening. People are not strictly logical… which is a situation which PR departments everywhere ruthlessly exploit.

                A lot of marketing, especially in the automotive industry, seems to be churned out on the basis if “Keep us in mind for future consideration”, or perhaps even “Are you sure you want to buy that car from another auto maker? Maybe you should put that off and see what we’ll be offering soon!”

                And of course, GM is far from the only auto maker who uses PR for that purpose. Tesla does it, too.

              2. Nick says:

                PR for: “Look, we’re sorry we crushed all the EV1s. This makes us even.”

                Who killed the electric car had a lasting impact on GMs reputation in the green car space.

        3. WadeTyhon says:

          A truck or SUV sale is more profitable for GM than a base Bolt. But how much profit could possibly be made selling a base $12k Spark or $15k Chevy Sonic? Those vehicles are often marked down a lot to move them.

          The dealer I bought from has had twice as many Bolts in stock as Sonics. They keep about as many Bolt’s on their lot as they do the Chevy Trax. (20 – 25) And this is in Texas. This leads me to believe a Bolt is likely more profitable than Chevy’s other small cars. It is not simply a “CARB play” any more than any EV maker selling CARB credits.

          GM only “loses” money after R&D costs. On a per unit basis, it costs less to make a Bolt than they sell it for. Especially on a higher trim Bolt.

          On advertising, I have personally seen newspaper and web ads for the vehicle. But if their contract with LG is only 30k units for 2017, then their current advertising reflects that. I imagine they will increase production for 2018 – but for now, they are 100% on track to build 30k units this year with sales above 25k (domestic + global) so increasing advertising on a vehicle already selling at expectations is pointless for now.

          1. Mint says:

            If that’s what their contract is with LG (and I suspect you’re right), then that just proves Musk right.

            If GM was serious about mass production, then the contract would be much larger.

            LG was upset when GM leaked the battery price. Why would they be if they really wanted to sell in high volume at that price? It’s clear to me that LG also saw this as a minimal-profit high-PR-value contract too.

            1. WadeTyhon says:

              On a first year model? When up to this point, the ceiling for yearly EVs in the US has basically been 30k a year?

              CARB credits won’t significantly help recuperate costs especially since tesla is about to flood the market! But it is one factor of many in GMs efforts to be profitable with EVs.

              I’d say the first year numbers show they’re serious if you look at EV sales historically. Sales will be dwarfed by the Model 3 of course. But Tesla needs a volume seller.

              I guarantee you that GM will produce the Bolt in higher numbers for 2018 and 2019 though – they will want to maximize the tax credits available on the vehicles produced.

              So will Tesla… they will not want to hit 200k this year. Both Tesla and GM will hit 200k next year.

              GM might even try to time it so they hit their unlimited $7,500 quarter right after the quarter Tesla exhausts their unlimited $7,500 rebate. I would if I were them!

          2. Pushmi-Pullyu says:

            “The dealer I bought from has had twice as many Bolts in stock as Sonics… And this is in Texas. This leads me to believe a Bolt is likely more profitable than Chevy’s other small cars.”

            Reasoning based on a sample size of one (1) often leads to incorrect conclusions. This fallacy is known as “hasty generalization”.

            1. WadeTyhon says:

              “Reasoning based on a sample size of one (1) often leads to incorrect conclusions. This fallacy is known as “hasty generalization”.”

              It’s no more a fallacy than looking at statements from a competing company and automatically taking it as truth. Much respect for Musk, but I trust his statements on GM as much as I trust Barra to discuss Tesla or Ford. 😉 I also provided more reasoning than what you quoted there. But I’ll provide more, if you like.

              If one assumes the UBS report on the Bolt is close to accurate, then the cost to manufacture a Bolt is <$29k. This sounds reasonable since GM is selling replacement battery packs for under $16k.

              A fully optioned Bolt EV is ~$43k. That's a $14k difference. Or about a $9k difference on a base Bolt with one or two options. This leaves room for GM to make money on each vehicle and for a dealer to have wiggle room on price negotiations while still making a profit and providing commissions.

              I don't disagree that GM will sell CARB credits just like Tesla will. And this probably provides GM additional room to give better lease incentives in CARB states for instance. But dismissing the Bolt as a simple CARB play is silly.

        4. Bacardi says:

          The interesting thing about profit is where the Bolt EV fails…Pick any GM car, even the ICE Spark, it can be optioned out quite high…Base is $13K yet we can increase the trim and add all options (excluding dealer add ons) and get the MSRP up another $8000…Almost every GM vehicle you can option out nearly double the base MSRP; many analysts have stated there’s a 50% margin on trims/options…Bolt/Volt? About a $6000 increase over a $34K/$37.5K base and to add insult to injury, there are glaring option omissions…The Bolt/Volt Premier trims should be downgraded to LT2 and a new Premier should be available with increased content…Sunroof and Power memory seats is a great start…

  9. Miggy says:

    Jay, you missed:
    New Zealand – September 6th – 12:30 PM

    1. Jay Cole says:

      My apologies Miggy, (=

      1. Mikael says:

        Any idea when the ~60 kWh version will be available? Or information about when that information will be available?
        Especially when it is available for us “Europeons”. 😉

        The 40 kWh version is pretty meh, it is the 200+ mile version we are waiting for.

        1. Magnus says:

          The reverse is also true, there are Chademo only chargers.

          But 90%+ are both

          1. Mikael says:

            On old stations yes. On new stations it is either the same amount/charge power or more CCS.

            Estonia has a network where you are always less than 50 km from a fast charger. All being Chademo. 😛

            But then they built the network like 5 years ago or so too. 😛

  10. Lou Grinzo says:

    Lots of questions I’d like answered, but the ones that are most intriguing to me involve how they’ll handle the 60kWh battery.

    When will it be available, in which trim levels, and at what additional cost? Will it be tied to a trim level, e.g. only available on the SL? If, as the leaks have said, we’ll have the S, SV, and SL trims on day one, all at 40kWh, then won’t we eventually wind up with at least one trim level with two pack sizes on the road? (I’m assuming Nissan won’t add a new trim level for the 60kWh pack, like an SLX, but if they did, it wouldn’t be the weirdest thing I’ve seen a car company do lately.)

    They have to handle this carefully, or they could wind up with a 60kWh option/level that no one buys because the price is too high, or simply confusing the heck out of customers.

  11. Don Zenga says:

    2017-09-05 20:30 EST is the date and time we are waiting for.
    Will be ideal if it has
    * 40 KWh battery for 150 mile / 250 km range.
    * 120 cu. ft. / 3.400 liters of interior volume.
    * AWD that helps people take the vehicle for offroading.

    An EV should be taken everywhere within the specified range, so that the ROI can be obtained.

    If I want to go to a place with 120 mile / 300 km round trip, I would like to take the Leaf rather than my 2nd vehicle which costs more for the gas besides polluting more.

    To put it simply, I will spend a hefty $30,000 on this Leaf which will be used for daily commute, weekly shopping and most other trips withing the range and another $13,000 – $15,000 on a small gasmobile which will be used just for long trips.

    1. John says:

      AWD ain’t happening…

  12. evnow says:

    “In addition, a larger battery option is also expected (~60 kWh), ”

    Nope. We had leaks of every little option that will come with Leaf 2018 – very difficult to see how this long range option was somehow missed. 60 kWh option is very unlike at launch (or very soon after). THis should not be expected.

    1. unlucky says:

      I would agree with you in general but given how much Jay Cole has hinted so far it’s hard to believe he knows anything less than the full content of what Nissan is going to announce.

      I don’t think he’d put that information in there if Nissan wasn’t going to say something related to it at the announce.

      1. evnow says:

        I expect Leaf to talk about release of a 60 kWh option in the future (they have talked about that multiple times), just not anytime soon.

    2. David S. says:

      I’m thinking the same, this way there’s less risk to be deceived.

  13. Ocean Railroader says:

    Well the good news is this should caused used leafs prices to crash. Such as a 2014- 2016 used leaf.

    But I do hope that I can put one of the new powerful batteries into the old leaf.

    1. William says:

      Not worth the effort, but you will probably be the first, if you can shoehorn that bigger pack in there somehow!

  14. BillT says:

    Given how many US households own multiple cars I think there is a pretty vast market for economical and practical “2nd car” BEVs with enough range to cover one’s daily driving needs with range to spare in cold weather and/or with a 10 year old battery with a nice buffer. It will be interesting to see how well a 150 mile range Leaf sells.
    My hunch is potentially quite well if the net price is in the low 20s especially if it offers a lot more cargo room than the Bolt.

    1. KenZ says:

      I remember a comment from years ago where one of the early Leaf owners argued against calling it a 2nd car. He said “I drive the Leaf M, T, W, R, F, and Sunday. On Saturday (and sometimes Sunday) we use the minivan for all the errands and kids’ stuff. So if I’m using the Leaf for 90+% of the driving miles, isn’t that the 1st car, and the gasser is the 2nd?”

      Different way of looking at it. I have a Leaf, and use it similarly. Sometimes on the weekend we take the Wife’s Subaru, or our camper van for a trip, but otherwise I eek every freakin’ mile I can out of that Leaf.

  15. Alex a says:

    The interior looks way better than the Model 3’s. Which is much like saying Britney spears looks better than my mother in law

  16. David Lane says:

    Happy new Leaf day everybody!

  17. x says:

    The best announcement would contain:

    1. (make-or-brake kind of thing) There will be a thermal management system for the battery, AND the battery warranty is 5 years if more than 10% lost.

    2. base (40kWh) price is $29,999 or less before incentives

    wishful thinking : 3. access to tesla Supercharger network for a decent price say 25c/kWh.

    1. William says:

      Nissan Leafs charging at 45-50 kW clogging up the Tesla Supercharger Network? That would the equivalent of St. Elon driving over the Holy Grail, and squashing it into a pancake! Tesla shareholders, along with existing Tesla owners/ lease holders, might as well just commit Seppuku.

      1. Tech01x says:

        Presumably any vehicle that has access to the Supercharger network can charge at reasonable rates and have the ability to make the jumps across the charging stations.

      2. x says:

        +10 !

        🙂

        you are really funny, and I am a big tesla fan and have a M3 reservation.
        I’ll guess I’d pass on sepukku ! 😉

        PS I think there’s room for at the SCs with few exceptions they are under-used as it is

  18. Anon says:

    Okay. Nissan bought _ONE_ piece of music for multiple informationals. Great. 😛

  19. Jeff Songster says:

    400km and more battery in 2018…
    OK… Let me drive it…

  20. ModernMarvelFan says:

    “The 2018 Nissan LEAF is expected to be offered with a base 40 kWh battery, from about $30,000 (in USD).This entry level should net at least 150 miles/240 km of real/world (EPA) range.

    In addition, a larger battery option is also expected to follow (~60 kWh), pushing the new LEAF’s total range past 200 miles, ”

    If 150 miles/40kWh is true, then 60kWh version won’t be able to get more than 225 miles… Its efficiency wouldn’t be better and its weight will be sure to be more.

    Not that 225 miles isn’t enough. But it won’t be beating the Bolt range.

    Since the 60kWh version comes later, it sounds like it was more a “last minute” scramble to match the Bolt/Model 3 rather than designed from ground up like Bolt and MOdel 3 which launches the 200+ version first.

    Nissan went the other way, launch the “weak” version first.

    1. Ambulator says:

      The Model 3 launched the 300+ mile version first.

  21. Ziv says:

    So they couldn’t pay for a real person to read the interpretation? This sound so amateurish.
    “Simply amazing!”
    Wait, what was the AER?

  22. Tech01x says:

    So… 400 km in JC08 standard, 40% more range, means somewhere around 150-160 miles of EPA range.

  23. Marshl G says:

    Impressive special effects. More what the M3 reveal should have been like.

  24. Ziv says:

    160 miles of EPA range sucks, but maybe it will be cheap enough that that won’t matter as much. Do they have thermal management on the new Leaf? Because not having it was such a huge advantage for a lot of first generation Leaf owners! It is possible that the newest version of the Lizard pack won’t need thermal management, but that will be hard to prove for at least a year or two.

  25. DJ says:

    Wow, this started on time 😀

  26. MotoEV says:

    I hope Elon takes some learnings from this presentation. For such an important introduction as the Model III, his presentation and content was a poor effort. For a product with such a long release schedule and approx. $50K price, he should have made a better effort or let others in his company own the presentation functions.

    1. ElectricSadman says:

      I respectfully disagree…Elon let the car speak for itself. 30 minutes into the rollout and we haven’t seen the interior? Simply Amazing.

      1. MotoEV says:

        Can you share a picture of the Base Model III? I would like to see a full set of pictures of the Model III that represents the $35K price point.

        I have not seen them online or on the Tesla site.

        Thanks in advance.

        1. ElectricSadman says:

          try searching Tesla Model III interior on the website http://www.google.com

          1. Mark.ca says:

            “Base Model III”

          2. MotoEV says:

            They do not exist – by intent. To this date, Tesla has not released full technical details on the Model III but it is ‘in production’.

            If the $35K Model III seems to be very much like the 40kw Model S (vaporware) many depositors may reconsider their reservation and look elsewhere.

            As you can see Nissan is letting journalists examine the new Leaf and draw conclusions on fit / finish.

            As Tesla wants to be a volume player, it is a bit unfair to expect customers to enter into purchase agreements with scant information about the product.

    2. fred says:

      LOL. This presentation is a joke. Single pedal driving like no one else has done that? i3, every Tesla?
      Styling?
      Uuuuu 6kw charger option.

      Seems lame. Model 3 reservations will go up.

      Details not presented here will be interesting. Will here be a bigger battery option? Price? Does the battery have thermal management.

      1. ffbj says:

        They said there would be a 60k, no thermal management. Not sure about the price. This is what I have ascertained, so take it with a grain of salt.

        The things you said about the presentation, I think, were accurate. It was exceedingly lame.

    3. Pushmi-Pullyu says:

      The Model 3 rollout ceremony was rather tame, and rather abruptly ended, when compared to other Tesla rollout ceremonies I’ve watched.

      I think this has more to do with Tesla’s decision to “anti-sell” the Model 3, than any lack of ability on Tesla’s part to put on a show for the media.

    4. Tech01x says:

      This was almost completely corporate mumbo jumbo. Nothing really interesting.

      1. ffbj says:

        ..succinct as usual.

  27. ElectricSadman says:

    …..this rollout is giving a boost to Tesla reservations.

    1. William says:

      You would be even more correct, if Tesla had the Model Y about 12-18 months further along into into its reservation/ preproduction plan, than it currently stands. Nissan better consider the the Tesla Model Y, when it gets into volume production, a real “Leaf Blower”!

      The Tesla Model Y, given an expedited 2020 rollout, has the potential to render the Nissan Leaf in North America, an also ran. Tesla now has to transform and become a global volume automotive manufacturer.

  28. ffbj says:

    Many inaccurate statements in the presentation and it felt sort of without soul, certainly light on many specifics. The production was well done and they probably spent a lot of money on it.

    I think they’ll move some, but it won’t be a big hit. Though they did lead at one time, at least in their segment, that lead has evaporated.

    1. William says:

      That lead has OBVIOUSLY evaporated! Nissan is not pulling anything over on those of us whom are in the know. Trumpeting their battery technology, was a bit disingenuous or possibly misleading, after all, there is a bit of a customer relations fiasco going back to at least a few Model years (2011-12 specifically).

  29. Disappointed says:

    Wow, early 2012 Leaf leaseholder. I extended my lease through 2018 to see what this would bring. Looks like a used Model S vs. a Bolt for me. I need another car before I could get a model 3. Oh well. I give credit for Nissan being a big manufacturer that was behind EV. They had the lead and seem to have let it go by them…

  30. jim stack says:

    more questions than answers?

    When will 60 kWh battery be available?

    Do the batteries have Thermal Management for long life?

    What warranty will they have? Maybe lifetime like the Hyundai IONIQ? lol

    Adjustable REGEN like Tesla?

    More Fast Charging locations like Tesla?

    AWD-nope.

    A Pickup or CUV version coming?

  31. Don Zenga says:

    Hope they release a AWD version in the next few months or at least for MY-2019.

    The crossovers are grabbing the market share because they have the AWD feature which is preferred by more people the World over.

  32. Martin T. says:

    Well Done Nissan! with more POWER on the way. Great e-pedal and the rest included. Will sell well in Japan and with the extended range will sell a lot better in Global markets 🙂

  33. Ed Stein says:

    2015 Leaf S leaseholder. Lease expires in November. I’m dissapointed. In Wisconsin 40 kwh just won’t cut it. Too much HVAC use in our 9 heating months, too many charger no-mans-land areas. Iowa is even more backward, but I can’t even get there with my 24kwh Leaf unless I reserve 2 days of free time. The single most important thing I was waiting for was the news on the BMS and thermal management system.
    Secondly the capacity.
    http://www.motortrend.com/cars/nissan/leaf/2018/2018-nissan-leaf-first-drive-review/. It’s air-cooled, again. Nope. I take impeccable care of my battery. Despite that at 37K, I have 93% capacity remaining, 61.38 amp hours of an original 66 amp hours. Most people on the Madison, WI Leaf owners facebook group are at less capacity than mine with similar mileage. Tesla batteries last far longer and the Bolt’s will probably too. Time will tell if the 40kwh degrades slower. Sure hope so.

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