Nissan And Endesa To Promote Europe’s First Mass Market Vehicle-To-Grid System

MAR 24 2015 BY MARK KANE 27

Nissan and Endesa sign pledge to promote V2G in Europe

Nissan and Endesa sign pledge to promote V2G in Europe

Nissan and Endesa announced at the 2015 Geneva Motor Show a collaboration on Vehicle-To-Grid technology, which enables charging the batteries and feeding energy back to the grid if needed.

Endesa already has developed a “low-cost” two-way charger for the LEAFs and e-NV200 (or basically any other CHAdeMO compatible vehicle) and together with Nissan it demonstrated the V2G system on March 12 in Madrid, Spain.

The next step will be promotion of such systems in Europe to ultimately introduce them on the market.

“The two companies have pledged to work together to deliver a V2G system and an innovative business model designed to leverage this technology.

Nissan- the world leader in EV sales with over 160,000 Nissan LEAF sold globally- is turning a page in zero emission mobility, and releasing the full potential of electric vehicle (EV) batteries with the Endesa two-way charging technology. It’s all part of Nissan’s commitment to support the entire EV ecosystem, not just the car..

The two companies have agreed to collaborate on the following activities:

– Introduction of V2G services in the European market;
– Exploring the use of ‘second life’ EV batteries for stationary applications (including households, buildings, grid);
– Designing and evaluating potential affordable energy and mobility pack offers;”

The main idea behind V2G is to use energy from batteries to assure grid stability or power the home or business. The concept still needs to be validated as a viable solution. Cost of two-way chargers are much higher than standard Level 2 charging points and need special management systems.  Additionally, part of the energy is lost by charging and discharging batteries, which reduces cycle-life.

Paul Willcox, Chairman of Nissan Europe, stated:

“We believe this innovation represents a significant development for Nissan Leaf and e-NV200 customers. Every Nissan electric vehicle battery contains a power storage capability that will prove useful in contributing towards smarter and responsible management of the power demand & supply of local power grids, thus reducing our EV total cost of ownership. Not only does this represent an opportunity for Nissan’s EV private and fleet owners, it could also support grid stability and fully demonstrate that each Nissan EV represents a tangible social asset.”

Javier Uriarte, Head of Market Iberia at Endesa said:

“The flexibility offered by V2G implementation in terms of storing and releasing green energy into the grid will further enhance the already significant and tangible benefits of electric mobility. This is why Endesa, together with its parent company Enel and partner Nissan, have decided to join efforts in promoting this technology.

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27 Comments on "Nissan And Endesa To Promote Europe’s First Mass Market Vehicle-To-Grid System"

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Vehicle to grid is a fantastic system that is paramount to green energy storage. It can be as simple as not to charge while there is peak grid demand or as sophisticated as to propose a continuously fluctuating electricity price and allow your car to set a threshold at which you buy electricity or sell electricity. Of course within the set SOC limits that you decide and with a possibility to override if you really need a 100% full battery. For the grid it means less peak power plants, and less problem to store intermittent pv and wind power. For the car owner it means lower electricity rates or even negative rates since he gives his battery on loan for load balancing. Everybody wins, the grid, the green energy and therefore the environment, the car owner and the ev producers.

I wouldn’t connect my 12 Leaf for V2G usage because my battery would degrade faster than it is currently degrading.

That’s the real kicker, isn’t it? V2G won’t truly take off for most consumers until the cycle life of the batteries is much higher. It’s in most people’s interests to preserve the life of the battery where possible.

Tesla’s got the right idea, I think. Tesla want to market big batteries you have installed in your home; they’ll function in a similar way, acting as a capacitor allowing you to reap the benefits of off-peak power and save it for peak demand.

Yeah, these things are kind of a joke. No one has ever complained their Leaf Batteries are either too big or too long-lasting. It takes a huge deal of imagination, but one could slightly conceive of a time where a utility had NO Baseload power, and there were millions of EV’s with Very HUGE batteries that just so happened to be plugged in (and not driving out and about as would be expected), and helped things out for a bit, but that I still see as fantasy land. Realistically, there aren’t that many EV’s, and Utilities have to have some form of baseload power to make up for dips and sags of wind and solar generation. The reason these schemes practically are nonsense is that calm days/cloudy days greatly outlast the batteries of a million EV’s, and as you just mentioned, the added wear and tear on the battery isn’t worth it. So to make this doable batteries would have to get much better than they are currently. Or at least much cheaper. Besides, the Leaf owner might actually need some of the juice himself. So I’d love to see some ‘green eyeshade’ figures of how much this thing costs,… Read more »
Most V2G systems I have seen are about 5 kW, depending on what the utility or the car owner want to do, chances are that you would only use a small fraction (10-20%) of the battery capacity so you are unlikely to cause any noticeable change in battery degradation (foot to the floor you discharge at 80kW, re-gen is 30kW). What is really interesting to me, as a leaf owner, is the idea that after 4-5 years of driving my leaf I could be left with a very serviceable battery storage system that I could connect to my house via one of these systems and live on off peak power, even after losses, that would half what I pay for my power. If nothing else it will put a solid floor on the value of the car, if people are paying $25k for a 20 kWh battery storage system for their solar system why wouldn’t they buy a $20k car and a $5k V2G system? Yes, I know Tesla get their batteries for $250 /kWh making a 20 kWh battery storage system worth only $5k but IMO, I think I stand a better chance of getting a bi-direction inverter for… Read more »
I thought I would just add to the above. I am suggesting that the cost of this system plus an old car could be competitive with battery storage systems not that by switching to an off peak tariff I could make $25k worth of savings. My entire power bill is about $1600 a year so even if I went completely off grid I would still have a pay back of over 10 years. So there would have to be another incentive (which is why I assume a utility is getting involved) to make it cost effective for ev owners or fleet operators. I can see places where this would make a lot of sense for a utility, in particular if you have a grid feed that is near its capacity limit. Spending $ 1-3 million on upgrading a feeder that is only 1% above its limit for 3 or 4 days a year is a pretty big out lay for not selling very much more power a year. It might be very much worth the utilities while to have a drivable storage option that they could move to a location or to have a fleet operator who might have some… Read more »

Utility limits aren’t like that. Far from worrying about 1% overage, the major limitation would be a substation transformer, and a large chunk of change to change out, especially if a bigger one won’t fit in the existing space.

In the meantime, they can get another 15-20% out of the thing by putting a few thermostatically controlled fans on the thing to keep it below the ultimate insulation temperature until they upgrade it.

Distribution transformers in the neighborhoods are both cheap, and can at times, withstand loadings of 250% for a short time.

So no utility worrys about a 1% overage.

Running anything above it’s design point cost money either in high failure rates or shorter life. Those cost are passed on either directly or indirectly v2g gives another knob to turn to reduce network costs. Where and when it is cheaper to deploy v2g solutions or install other hardware will be very situation dependent. I am a great believer in silver buckshot rather than silver bullets. Can v2g reduce network costs? If used properly I think it can in some cases but a lot will depend on the cost of the alternative vs the cost of v2g. The v2g cost is not simple to calculate as the car and inverter might not be owned by the benificary I.e. The utility and the cost to the vehicle owner is also not clear. Will cycling the battery on a leaf at 5kw reduce it’s life? I’m not convinced that will have a dramatic effect. shifting power where I live is about 0.1 to 0.2c per kWh as an average for a domestic user, that’s not a lot but there are other situations where the value of shifting power is much more lucrative.

That’s school book nonsense. Companies that have to make a profit don’t think that way. They replace stuff when its prudent, and the time is right. Of course, lately, with the federal and state ‘subsidies’ toward more efficient transformers, many perfectly good facilities have been changed out to get the gov’t largess, and over-transformered loads don’t save anything either since the losses exceed the savings should they have been properly applied.

Its nice to spout generalities. I like people to be specific so that I can deduce if they are conversant with a subject or just acting like big experts.

How about laying out a one line diagram of exactly how this system is supposed to work, and be sure to size everything.

Hi Bill, I always like debates with you as I find you make good points and obviously have a good understanding of electrical power distribution. Let me be absolutely clear before I set out the explanation below I am not an expert (big or otherwise) in grid level power distribution. My back ground is in electrochemistry, materials science and device design, in short, my world is DC the AC side of things is not really my thing. I have enough of an understanding to try and find application for the devices that I develop. As such everything below is an informed opinion, on a blog, take it or leave it but don’t expect it to be anything too in depth, mind blowing or even very water tight in terms of actual costs. It is a rough calculation based on memory, late at night. I am hoping there is no massive glaring error in any of the calculations. So my take on V2G. If the V2G system costs $5k for a 5kW system (I am working on a rough cost of $1k per kW for a bi-directional inverter) and it is 90% efficient, we have a starting point. I am going… Read more »
Ok Chris thanks for making a stab at it. I’m forcing the issue since I want someone to explain to me who in the real world would do this. You say 40 – 70 cents / kwh when the air conditioners are running? In the first place utilities only have trouble 3 or 4 days out of the year, and this is handled in extreme cases by the utility offering a discount for the month for any large customer that agrees to shed their demand when notified 24 hours earlier (i.e. for the next day). The cost to the utility? Offering a discounted rate assuming the customer complies. The benefit to the utility? Not having to build more or peaking plants for a few days very high usage. The benefit to the customer? The discount if the customer complies. Now who can most easily comply? Hospitals, government buildings, and telecommunications firms that have back up diesel power for emergencies. Typically, since they have to periodically exercise their backup facilities anyway, why not combine that with load sheding that the utility needs? IN this country, the California Market is crazy, having been excessively deformed by the Enron Scandal years ago now.… Read more »
I think we live in 2 very different grids. My off peak rate is 8.8 c/kWh and my on peak is 23 c/kWh. That is considered an amazing deal here, most are paying around 25 to 28 c/kWh anytime (no peak or off peak difference). You also have to pay more in other states or more per unit if you have solar. Australia has some of the cheapest power in the world at the power station but some of the most expensive power at the house. That is largely due to the size of the grid compared to number of customers. The eastern grid is the same size as the EU’s grid geographically but only has about 14-15 million people connected to it (vs. about 750 million in the EU). The major cost is the poles and wires distribution network and meeting the peak demand in summer 25% of the installed capacity runs for a cumulative 10-11 days a year. There is plenty money to be made in Australia balancing the grid and it is pretty much how the generators survive making a disproportionally large amount of money on those 11 hot days. I am pretty sure that power is… Read more »
Martin has mentioned how Aussies are ‘overcharged for nearly everything’, and you guys just learn to tolerate it. SInce you have the situation of, as you say, very distant loads compared to where it is generated, it seems to me the American longstnading practice of Load shedding with larger customers is the simplest way of smoothing out the load. OF course, with very high rates, the utility is not incentivized to do the cheapest thing. I half went with solar power since I tired of seeing all of National Grid’s wasteful spending first hand (and paying for it), and besides, here in NY State there is an attractive tax credit for Solar (there is NO rebate for residential EV purchase by our State – only the federal $7500), and the concept of using the utility as a piggy bank where, the utility buys the juice back at the same rate they sold it to you in the first place, so that if they ever decide to overcharge, when my solar panels are running I effectively overcharge them back. I realize this can’t last if Solar gets popular since the Utilities will scream unfairness (its only ok if THEY do it… Read more »

Allowing the local utility remote control of what hours your PEV charges might be good for everybody (so long as the PEV does get charged before morning), but if the control is restricted to that, then no two-way charger will be necessary. An EV owner who allows a two-way charger to be installed in his car is just asking for the utility to take advantage of him.

@Priusmaniac

At least somebody got it.

have a leaf what we need is to transfer the battery pack from the leaf and use it to store the excess energy from my solar panels. hope to do 100000 thousand on my leaf and would be great to use 70 per cent of the pack to power my home rather have this option than to get peanuts from a dealer

Your local utility will be happy to help you wear out your plug-in EV’s battery pack faster than normal, in return for a slight reduction in your electrical bill. 🙁

I’m highly dubious that this tradeoff would benefit anyone except the utility. The utility should buy its -own- battery packs for grid energy storage, not use EV owners’ packs for that purpose.

Perhaps you should at least wait and see before calling any such systems to be a complete disaster.

Frequency regulation can often be fixed with very small amounts of additional energy added to the right parts of a grid. So it could be worth it for utility to pay a decent amount for a small boost out of your battery.

The economic advantages of “peak shaving” for electric utilities are well documented. So it definitely would be worth the investment for an electric utility to invest in a sizable bank of storage batteries, when the price comes down far enough. According to some estimates, the per-kWh cost is either very close or perhaps we’re already there now.

So, since it clearly would pay for the electric utility to buy and install battery packs for such purposes, what rational reason would there be for them to pay to rent an EV owner’s pack? The only rational reason is if they think they can get away with paying less than fair market price.

We don’t need a complex analysis to demonstrate the truth of that; it’s a pretty obvious and straightforward cost/benefit analysis.

And while you’re at it you might learn what Utilities typically do to alleviate problems, namely, to have load-shedding agreements with their larger customers. Takes care of the problem and minimizes the number of people involved, without any silly, expensive, desparate programs.

So Bill, if these large customers were the panacea you claim it to be, why do utilities have Peak Shave programs (running for 20 years+) with Radio devices that they can call upon on the side of millions of households in the US for A/C, Electric Water Heaters and Electric Heating? To use your own words: “while you’re at it you might learn what Utilities typically do to alleviate problems” In short, every little helps. Smaller distributed load shedding or generation can and does make a difference AND it is cost effective. Utilities like the concept of being able to call on a variety of different dispatchable loads as they all have their own different profiles of consumption, and therefore subtly different effects on the grid. The reason why this work is NOT a waste of time is because early pilot projects HAVE to be undertaken well in advance of mass rollouts. Remember: just because you consider that it wouldn’t work now, does not by any means that it wouldn’t work in the near future with larger battery packs and increased battery cycles at a lower cost. If you take the case of frequency regulation events as an example, to… Read more »

The only V2G I would like to see is an inverter on plug-in cars that puts out 120V @ 60Hz so people can power their homes/whatever when desired.

I know there are aftermarket ones, but I’d prefer a more powerful one from the OEM, built into the car.

The Outlander EV and Clarkson Cote will sell you 1500 watt units.

As Mitsubishi says, ‘Enough for an Expresso Machine’.

More properly called in this case V2H (vehicle to Home, since they don’t sync up with the utility).

A backup system for the household (a Tesla can typically feed a house for 2-3days) is a better use.
It would be a very good selling incentive too!

I’m not dismissing this tech that easily. A sag in power can be very expensive. An outage even more so. Would you rather have rolling blackouts or be paid to help?

We are thinking that cars are active during peak. Yeah, working folks maybe. Not retired or home workers though.

Probably not viable with 1% market penetration. At 70% we’re talking a huge chunk of power sitting idle. Gramma probably wants A/C in the afternoon more than the 10% of her 200mi EV’s range.

More generalities. SO how long do you expect the SAG to last? What is causing the sag?

I’m wondering if anyone has even begun to think the problem through.

It sounds like a good idea – at least if you’re on a lease, as many EV drivers are.