Next Gen 2018 Nissan LEAF To Debut September 5th – Details

5 months ago by Jay Cole 130

2018 Nissan LEAF prototype/mules have been spotted testing recently in the US and Europe

While we earlier heard that the Nissan LEAF would be debuting at some point later this year, we can now put a specific time and place on that happening.

A special event has been put on the calendar by Nissan for September 6th in Tokyo – which is of course is actually September 5th in North America and Europe.

2018 Nissan LEAF to debut in September (prototype/mule seen here testing in Europe in March)

In an interview from Europe, Pierril Pouret, Senior VP of the region, confirmed that not only would the 2018 LEAF be an all-new offering, but that it will lead Nissan’s leadership position in the segment for the future.

“This will be a brand new model, designed from a blank sheet, that will make sure we are still in the front.”

Pouret made the comments on the occasion of the 30,000th LEAF registration in Norway.  He also noted that Nissan’s large past investments in the space, and its larger scope compared to its peers, gives the company the advantage today heading into the next generation of EVs.

“In the automotive industry today, nothing is invested in as much as electric cars and electric car technology.  But many of these investments we already made ten years ago, which gives us a certain competitive advantage.”

The first in a series of shots and technical specs to be released on the 2018 Nissan LEAF this Summer

nissan ids concept

Nissan exec notes similarities between the IDS Concept and future LEAF

As we have already seen in action with the first teaser shot of the 2018 Nissan LEAF, the Nissan VP confirmed that the promotional strategy leading up to the September 6th debut is to slowly leak photos and technical specs on the new EV over time.

Pouret notes that the new LEAF does indeed retain many of the design notes of the earlier shown IDS Concept, but would not divulge any further details (like the vehicle class, or battery/range options at launch).

It is expected that the new LEAF will retain the 60 kWh battery found in the IDS Concept, but will also offer a ‘smaller’ option (~40 kWh) when it launches.

The 2018 Nissan LEAF will arrive in the US in late 2017, while Europe deliveries are expected in early 2018.

Tu.no,  hat tip to Stian J!

Tags: , , , , , , , , ,

130 responses to "Next Gen 2018 Nissan LEAF To Debut September 5th – Details"

  1. Andrew says:

    He must not know what “all-new” means… because I’m seeing a whole lot of gen 1 in the spy photos. Heavy refresh? yes. All new? no…

    1. Jay Cole says:

      That’s true, assuming the test cars are pre-production intent cars out validating…and not mules.

      I suspect we will know either way very shortly as more photos trickle out of Nissan.

    2. Timothy Vollmer says:

      Just because its all new doesn’t mean it can’t have a similar shape. Look at Porsches and Corvettes. It its on a new platform, with new body work, new motor, battery, inverter, ect, that’s all new.

      1. CLIVE says:

        Correct and it has to have a higher safety score than before.

    3. Alan says:

      Well, if that headlight teaser is anything to go by and looking at the spy shots of the mule, we pretty much know nothing of what the finished article is going to look like !

    4. Bacardi says:

      Look at current and previous generation Camaro, they look pretty similar but share almost no parts…Even if the Leaf looks the same remember the previous platform was created over five years ago…A new platform will most likely be safer and lighter…

  2. William says:

    “Still in the front”, Mr. Pouret, are you aware of the GM Bolt that is currently leading the EV segment in best range for price/value. You are going to be almost a whole year late in your supposed out in front leadership position.

    The Nissan “certain competitive advantage” will be swept up by Tesla when the First Model 3 ships to its non pre order deposit customer!

    1. Mikael says:

      The GM Bolt presence is very limited, both in numbers and locations where it is available.

      I would not be surprised if the Leaf 2.0 was available globally before the Bolt, keeping its lead.

      1. Paul says:

        Plus all it needs is more comfortable seats than the Bolt to win.

        1. WARREN says:

          Well if it looks anything like the IDS, I would take the Nissan any day over the Bolt even with a 175 mile range.

          1. bro1999 says:

            It won’t look anything like the IDS. Maybe a couple of design elements, but the overall style will be much more conservative and fall in line with the rest of the Nissan lineup.

            1. Josh Bryant says:

              A mini-version of the new Murano would be a good look for the LEAF. But based on their last design, I am not that confident.

              If they offered a Sport model (AWD, since RWD won’t happen), I would consider it over my Model 3 reservation.

              Now that Tesla has delayed AWD and Perf models, who knows when something to my liking is in Texas.

              I will drive the Bolt this fall when it gets here, but the wife has already looked at pictures and said No. Strangely she liked the looks of our 2011 LEAF. Hard to figure her taste.

              1. Djoni says:

                Maybe if you look in your mirror you might have a cue then!:0

      2. theflew says:

        Thee Bolt will be available nationwide before the Leaf 2 is released. GM shared their release plan over 6 months ago. No reason to act surprised about availability now.

        1. Terawatt says:

          And that plan says nationwide from September. So not before the LEAF. Besides, the world, shockingly, is not just the USA. And Chevy clearly wants to sell the Bolt only where there’s little demand for it. Canada wants it, but don’t get it. South Korea sold out the 2017 allocation in minutes – and don’t get any more. In Norway the dealers have sold over 4000, and they get 200. Even though all the backorders could be filled simply with what GM increased inventory with in two months in the USA.

          The Bolt is a great car. But it’s not going to sell well as long as GM doesn’t want it to. So the LEAF may very well prove to be the car that sets the new bar for affordable EVs and not the Bolt.

          Of course none of these are anything more than a footnote in EV history. The ramp up of Model 3 is the decisive 2017 event on terms of the EV adoption timeline. And even that only affects the timing. EVs are beyond the tipping point already and by 2025 any new car that isn’t an EV will be of little relevance. This is true whether Tesla succeeds or fails, but it’s impossible to say if it would have happened if not for Tesla. Certainly it wouldn’t have happened as fast.

          I really hope the new LEAF comes with a 60 kWh (or more!) pack from the get-go, and much improved efficiency. I doubt it’ll tempt me anyway, Nissan being too sensibly Japanese for my taste, but it would be perfect for the kind of person who considers a Toyota, and sadly there’s many of them.

          1. Jason says:

            Don’t forget, Tesla also has their awesome Tech packaging. My Nissan Connect had been off for over a week and Nissan can’t tell me why. Somehow I doubt that will happen with Tesla, because Tesla know how much that data is worth to them and Nissan don’t.

          2. unlucky says:

            Bolt is supposed to be nationwide in September. This will “debut” in September. Why do you think this thing will be available nationwide at debut? Why do you think it’ll be available at all in the US at debut?

            Debut often means showing and announcing a future date for availability. I would think the chances the LEAF goes out nationwide before the end of September 2017 are essentially zero. I’d lay even odds it isn’t available outside CARB states before the end of 2017 and is only available in small numbers in CARB states in 2017.

            1. Tom says:

              Logic has no place in this thread.

      3. sveno says:

        It’s entirely possible that Leaf 2 could be available years before Bolt EV in RHD markets.

        1. Jason says:

          You’d think RHD would be available from day one given Japan is a RHD country.

    2. Alex says:

      Look at the sales, GM can’t deliver while Nissan has 3 factories around the world plopping out cheap LEAFs.

      1. theflew says:

        Heavily discounted with half the battery capacity.

        1. Brian says:

          Yup. It all depends on how you define being “in the front”. Is it having the best product overall? That would be Tesla Model S. What about the best value for the money? Arguably Chevy Bolt. The highest volume? Nissan Leaf.

          Guess which metric Nissan’s advertising department is going to choose…

          1. Kdawg says:

            I thought he was talking about the charging port would “still be in the front”.

            🙂

            1. Brian says:

              I hope so, I find that’s the best place for it. The next best place is by the driver’s door. Fortunately for me, those are where the charge ports are on my two cars. The latter is occasionally a hassle, based on where many EVSEs are installed.

            2. William says:

              It took me a moment, but then I got it! Nice, thankx!

            3. Gimpster says:

              I hope they keep the charging ports on the “nose”. I really appreciate that, makes plugging in way easier for me vs. my prior Volt.

              1. Kdawg says:

                I like where the charge port is on my Volt. 2 things I can think of right away are when I forget to close the port cover, I can simply open my door and reach to close it. Another thing is using public chargers. A lot of them are in compact spaces in parking decks and you have to pull as far forward as you can. I don’t like the idea of trying to squeeze in there and plug a cord if, if there is room at all. Also curbside parking could be an issue if someone bumps backwards into the cord plugged into your car.

        2. CLIVE says:

          Half the lease payment on a Fully loaded car with zero down.

          Chargers everywhere what’s not to like for a little longer.

          Mitsubishi Nissan and Renault forged an alliance, they’re going to be tough to beat in the EV race. Bless GM’s little heart.

    3. Oscar says:

      Bolt has not taken the lead. It is only sold in the U.S. while Nissan Leaf is practically global. Every month there are about 4 times more Leafs sold than Bolt.

      1. Terawatt says:

        Yes. And, crucially, GM doesn’t want to sell the Bolt. I hoped and thought that they would, but it’s already obvious that they don’t. I can’t understand why they bothered to insist, prior to launch, that it wouldn’t be production constrained, but by now it’s obvious GM is working hard to make it look like it’s demand constrained by refusing to serve markets that want it such as Canada, South Korea, and (in Opel guise) western Europe.

        Nissan is a s**** company as well, lobbying for no fuel regs while pretending to care about the environment at car shows, but at least it seems they will sell the LEAF wherever buyers are. It wouldn’t surprise me if the new LEAF proved much more relevant than the groundbreaking but unsupported Bolt.

      2. William says:

        I was referring to the double the Range to Sales price metric. The Bolt has Doubled down on the Nissan Leaf range with some additional MSRP. This has given the EV community more of Tesla range without the higher price tag for a premium vehicle.

    4. Miggy says:

      “Still in Front” with sales with almost 100,000 more sales than number two EV the Tesla Model S.

      1. Miggy says:

        World-Wide Sales to date
        Pl Model Sales
        1 Nissan Leaf 268.441
        2 Tesla Model S 170.799
        3 Chevrolet Volt 138.290
        4 Mits Outlander PHEV 127.341
        5 Toyota Prius Plug-In 89.470
        Taken from EV-Sales

    5. Jason says:

      They over estimated demand for EV’s initially, that would have hurt them. But 6-7yrs later they should not only be releasing Leaf 2.0, but at least another vehicle as well (maybe an SUV).
      Tesla only makes EV’s, and you can see in the same time period they have released the Model X and the Model 3 (imminently).

    6. Paul Schlueter says:

      At this point, the Leaf has a similar advantage as the Toyota Prius. Part of the reason the Prius Prime is selling so well is simply because of model familiarity and name recognition. Many people are familiar with the Nissan Leaf as being a very reliable, popular and reasonably affordable EV. There is much anticipation for the new Leaf arrival on the market. Many people will purchase the new Leaf because of the reputation of the original Leaf. The Bolt is an all new product. No matter how many reviews it gets, good or bad, people won’t fully trust it until it’s been in production for a few years.

  3. Null says:

    What matters is:
    What is battery capacity?
    What is charging rate, both peak and average?
    Have they decided to add a thermal management system?

    1. kubel says:

      What is battery capacity? 40kWh
      What is charging rate, both peak and average? 7.2kW
      Have they decided to add a thermal management system? Yes, active air cooling.

      1. bro1999 says:

        What’s your source?

        1. William says:

          No source, as there is no info yet. A good Guestimate, however!

      2. Mr. M says:

        The 30 kWh Leaf charges already with 48kW. No way that a 40kWh Leaf charges maximum 7,2kWh at peak.

        I would expect 48 and 72kWh battery with ~80/~120 kW peak charge rate.

        1. Ellis says:

          Kubel has it about right for Mode 3 Charging, Any more than 32 Amp charging on a domestic power supply is not viable.

          Mode 4 charging is more a function of the EVSE. 50KW is widespread, mostly because it is achievable using a modest industrial power supply (63A 3 Phase 415v in Europe).

          If they do increase the theoretical mode 4 charging current, few will see the benefit any time soon.

          In the UK at least, the majority of public chargers are mode 3 because the cost of installing multiple 63A 3 phase power supplies is too high and installing Mode 3 ticks the eco box for most local authorities.

  4. Someone out there says:

    “it will lead Nissan’s leadership position in the segment for the future”
    In that case it will have to have a 60 kWh battery with 240 miles of range, at least as an option, otherwise they can kiss their leadership goodbye.

  5. Brian says:

    Nissan is absolutely in the front today, if you look at their worldwide EV sales. Most places outside of the US are dense enough that a 30kWh battery already pretty much serves their needs. I imagine that the 40kWh battery is for those markets more than the US. The 60kWh battery would be excessive there, but is needed here (real or perceived, it’s needed to sell the car).

    The Leaf 2 looks to be a real compelling car. My personal hopes for the car:
    200+ miles
    100kW+ DCQC
    150kW+ motor

    I look forward to cross-shopping / test-driving the Bolt, Model 3, and Leaf 2.0. Hopefully a year from now that can happen.

    1. Toni says:

      30kWh is simply not enough for driving between cities. Even in dense places.
      Another big issue is that most people living in dense cities don’t have a garage and therefore can’t charge every night. Those folks need an EV with a battery that can provide at least a week of city driving.

      1. Alonso Perez says:

        Plenty of sidewalk chargers in EV friendly cities. This is not a big Problem.

    2. unlucky says:

      Certainly Nissan is in front right now. They make the most sales in the US because their car is the most affordable EV available widely. In other countries it varies, in some they are the only affordable EV.

      I’ll have to wait to see what they offer but it would take a lot to put it ahead of the Bolt for me. I wouldn’t mind having the larger trunk again for my golf clubs but the rest of the LEAF was all downside. Slow, brakes with such bad feel and action I felt they were unsafe and a Nissan interior (I’m not a fan, whether it’s on a Sentra or a Leaf) – it was not something I wanted to repeat.

      But they do have a chance to turn over a new LEAF. So I’ll hang back and see.

      Hey Nissan, switch to CCS in Europe and the US. I guess you could have CHAdeMO too, but really the important thing is to use CCS because that’s what is being installed most often now. In Japan I’m sure CHAdeMO is the right thing since it has near 100% market share.

      1. Brandon says:

        Good points, but I should clarify for you that actually the vast majority of fast chargers installed nowadays include both CHAdeMO and CCS.

        1. unlucky says:

          The majority do include both. But that’s no reason to continue to use CHAdeMO. CHAdeMO requires a second connector, etc. And CCS is advancing more quickly. Outside Japan it’s all downside. Use CCS.

          1. Brandon says:

            “CCS is advancing more quickly”, and “that’s what is being installed most often now” are not acccurate statements I would kindly point out.

            I happen to keep close tabs on fast charger installations worldwide, so I know this.

            In fact in the U.S. CHAdeMO is more numerous since there have been a lot of CHAdeMO only fast chargers installed at dealers and elsewhere by some network operators over the last few years.

            Like I said, I’m not against CCS being the main standard, I think that would be great, but I am a stickler for accurate info.

            1. unlucky says:

              They are accurate statements. CCS is advancing more quickly. I can use a 62.5kW CCS charger today. Can you use a 62.5kW CHAdeMO charger today? Show me where.

              And yes, it’s being rolled out more quickly too. Most new CCS chargers are CHAdeMO ones too, but all new CCS chargers aren’t all also CHAdeMO.

              You’re a stickler for accurate info? Yet you want to conflate number of chargers in existence with rate of advance. How do you pull that off?

              Rate of advance does not mean the same as installed base. To indicate it does is inaccurate. I would think that would rub a stickler the wrong way.

              1. Brandon says:

                I most certainly was not trying to prove anything about the CCS rate by mentioning the already installed CHAdeMO base. Those are two separate things, and I don’t think I was implying they aren’t.

                But no, if there are many CCS only fast chargers being installed someplace, then I’m not aware of them.

                Like I said, I track these things, and I’m not just trying to say you are incorrect just to be contrary. The fact is, 90%+ fast chargers installed worldwide nowadays ARE both CCS and CHAdeMO. That’s my point.

                1. unlucky says:

                  Every Chargepoint Express (24kW) installed is CCS only and not CHAdeMO. And there are, much to my chagrin, a lot of them being installed. And I don’t just mean at Chevy dealers.

                  So there are a lot of CCS-only fast chargers being installed. And now you are aware of it. You were already aware that less than 100% of CCS chargers were CHAdeMO also and refused to bother to figure out the implication of that. Now you are armed with more info. Can you truly be a stickler and incorporate what this means into your knowledge or are you really just a CHAdeMO fan who pretends to be all about the facts?

                  1. Brandon says:

                    You are correct that the ChargePoint Express 100 (24 kW) have been installed, and to my knowledge that model is essentially the only model charger providing just a CCS plug. Most of these installed fast chargers in the U.S. are from the east and west coast corridors that VW installed summer 2015 thru summer 2016. 100 were installed, and approximately half were 24 kW CCS and half 50 kW CCS and CHAdeMO. In the U.S. there have been very very few CCS only chargers installed besides those ~50. FYI I use PlugShare to monitor fast chargers installed here in the U.S. I’ve been doing it for a year and a half and it’s been interesting to see the data.

                    1. unlucky says:

                      I don’t know who paid for them, honestly. If you look at Sierra Nevada Brewery in California I figured they just put it in themselves. Go look at Plugshare and look at Chico, CA, Williams, CA or Corning, CA. Are those VW chargers? These things are all over out here (again, unfortunately). There’s one in Monterey, CA, King City, CA, Santa Barbara, CA or Pasa Robles, CA too. Are those VW chargers? I’m pretty sure those are more recent, they weren’t there in November. But they might still have gone in in 2016.

                      San Diego County Administration building. Hilton Garden Inn Carlsbad Beach. California Plaza Garage in Los Angeles. These things are everywhere.

                      I swear there seems to be more than 50 of them in California alone. I really wish there were fewer of them (er, more 50kW ones), because the 24kW ones are the slowest CCS charger out there.

      2. Jason says:

        Couldn’t agree more about CHAdeMO. It looks like the majority of manufacturers are going that way, so in the interest of a single charging standard it would be great if Nissan got on board and had both in this vehicle but phase CHAdeMO out in the next vehicle.
        Even better, be the first to adopt Tesla SC network and leverage those instead of CCS.

      3. Mark says:

        We have combined chademo/CCS in ohio

    3. Josh Bryant says:

      I hope you are right, but doubtful about the 150 kW motor.

      I heard a long time ago the plan for the Infiniti EV was to use two 80 kW leaf motors for RWD, with one on each axle to give torque vectoring. Sounded like a great concept, too bad de Nysschen killed it.

      Reviving that in a LEAF sport would be awesome, but unlikely since FWD is the standard for this type of offering. A dual motor AWD, like Tesla uses, would be the only possibility. But that would probably only appear in another Inifiniti concept.

      1. Brian says:

        To be clear, the 150kW motor was a wishlist item, not a prediction. I would be surprised if Nissan went much over 100kW. I’d put my “prediction” (in quotes because I’m done trying to really predict Nissan) at 100-125kW.

        1. Josh Bryant says:

          That is the ballpark I would think too. The motor will be bumped up to match the added weight of the new 60 kW battery. Giving a matching 0-60 speed.

          Nissan isn’t marketing LEAF as a performance vehicle.

          1. NavyCuda says:

            My guess is that the weight of the new pack will not be vastly different than the old pack.

            My hopes are:

            60kWh battery
            100kW traction motor
            60kw of regen
            Four lamp LED hi/lo headlights

            1. SparkEV says:

              SparkEV has 105kW traction motor and 60kW regen. If new Leaf can’t even do better than 4 year old SparkEV that was $16K in CA, that will be embarrassing for Nissan, especially if it’s priced north of $20K post subsidy (which it will be).

              Leaf might do fine where Bolt won’t be available, but you can be sure Tesla 3 will kill it if new Leaf is even less than old SparkEV. Nissan must make it at least competitive to Bolt (hence, Tesla 3), not worse than 4 year old SparkEV.

              1. Kdawg says:

                The Bolt EV has a 150kW motor and probably weighs less too. It’s not being sold as a “sports car” either, but have power at your disposal helps.

              2. Jason says:

                Don’t underestimate people’s willingness to buy something they already trust. There are a lot of happy Leaf owners due for an upgrade. If the Leaf is cheaper than Bolt and still reasonably good, I think a lot will still buy it.

      2. Jason says:

        I don’t really understand the obsession about the Leaf 80kW motor and lack of power. I drive a Leaf and the power has never been an issue. Sure, 0-60mph is not snap your neck quick, but it isn’t embarrassing either, you can easily keep up with all other traffic (except I guess on 200mph Autobarn).
        0-35mph is excellent due to the instant torque. Easily leave every non EV at the lights, and even keep up with motor bikes when they hoon off. Easily give a burst of speed to get into the Hall in traffic. Really don’t need anything more than that.

        1. SparkEV says:

          Unless you drive a more powerful EV, you wouldn’t understand all the opportunities you are missing. It’s simply lot easier to merge to freeway, change to another lane that is moving faster, or even to “beat the light”. Those little things turn into delight rather than stuck in “Old Ladies Driving Slowly Make Others Behind Infuriatingly Late Everytime” (Oldsmobile)

          I’m sure I’ll appreciate even quicker EV, but for now, SparkEV is the benchmark at about $20K post subsidy price range. That means at least 105 kW for 2900 lb, and more power if heavier.

          1. Asak says:

            I agree with you that more power/acceleration is better. That being said, I’d say the Leaf is no slouch overall. It easily blows away any non-EV eco-mobile.

        2. Someone out there says:

          Many men drive like lunatics unfortunately. They think that makes them great drivers but statistics say otherwise.

        3. Gimpster says:

          I consider myself a pretty manyly man… I rid loud motorcycles, and own V8 sports cars.

          I DD the LEAF to work, and I’ve never felt it wanting for power. Esp with “Eco” mode off, the thing will holeshot pretty much every other car at the light.

          I am able to run at 80-85MPH on the interstate with ease.

          I will take more battery capacity over a higher power motor on the Leaf any day of the week.

  6. Toni says:

    “This will be a brand new model, designed from a blank sheet”

    ll 2018 Leaf mules spotted so far use the chassis of the old Leaf. Maybe the people at Nissan do not know the meaning of “from a blank sheet” and are just copying from their “Marketing Bulls*** Talk” Dictionaries. 😀

    1. ItsNotAboutTheMoney says:

      So somebody got up close and examined the chassis of the new model?

      1. Toni says:

        Look at the passenger cell of the mule in the picture above. It is an exact copy of the current Leaf’s passenger cell. If they made a new platform that is the same as the old one they must be really stupid…

        1. Alan says:

          Look at the official teased headlight closely and you will see it’s not even the same shape or angle of the mule, what makes you think this “mule” is going to look like the finished article exactly ?

          1. bro1999 says:

            The Bolt mules had completely different head and tail lights compared to the final production version. Nissan could easily be doing the same.

            I guess we’ll find out all the details of Leaf 1.51 in a few months.

        2. bro1999 says:

          What would be REALLY stupid is if the new Leaf does not have active liquid cooling.

          But reusing the old Leaf’s platform is the cheapest way to 200 miles, right?

          1. Brian says:

            Maybe. For me, active liquid cooling is not at all a requirement. Even active air cooling is not that important. If the new Leaf holds up as well as the “lizard” battery, it would be just fine.

            The same cannot be said for all climates. But maybe the Leaf shouldn’t be the EV of choice in hot climates.

            1. Kdawg says:

              As temps keep increasing, everywhere is becoming a hot climate. We see temps in the 90’s and sometimes over 100 in Michigan.

            2. SparkEV says:

              Assuming 95% efficient battery in charging, 50 kW would generate 2.5 kW of heat, and proposed 150 kW Chamdeo would generate 7.5 kW of heat. That’s 2X to 4X your entire home heating in space of your coffee table. It may be fine in cool weather, but if you have to use DCFC in middle of summer, especially in inland CA (eg. AZ, NV) and 120F heat, it will kill the battery without active thermal management.

              But if all you’ll ever do is commute in coastal CA and live in relatively flat area, non-active cooled may work for you. But then, why even bother with 60 kWh or even 40 kWh? You’re never going to use anything more than 100 miles.

              “Real EV” must have active thermal management, liquid or otherwise.

                1. Bill Howland says:

                  Yes, its interesting to see how the batteries can heat up, and still get 100% efficiency while charging and discharging.

                  The batteries in my Decades old Bolt ev are still very old-fashioned, requiring 67.77 kwh to recharge at 1/10 C.

                2. Bill Howland says:

                  Hehe I was wondering how someone could make such a dopey statement.

                  Uh, CHIEF, “Coloumbic Efficiency” isn’t what you think it is.

                  1. Nick says:

                    Haha!

                    You didn’t read the paper. Round trip counted energy in vs energy out, which covers all the losses in a system. Read it again son. 😀

                    1. Bill Howland says:

                      What I stated in my comment was true, and it is obvious I’ve read it. I brought up the term “Coloumbic Efficiency”, which the article talks about. You didn’t, so Sonny – try again.

                3. SparkEV says:

                  Cell vs pack is different. Even if you assume 99%, 150 kW would be like having couple of space heater inside the volume of a coffee table. 120F ambient + that extra heat will kill the battery without active thermal management.

                  In addition, it’s not clear if DCFC is duty cycled charging. Based on Leaf using DCFC killing the AM radio reception, I suspect charging is pulsed, in which case the efficiency would be lot less. The article you point shows as low as 90% in duty cycled (pulsed) charging.

                  1. Nick says:

                    All good points.

                    The lack of thermal management in this case would lead to a reduced charge rate at high ambient temperatures​.

                    Which is a bummer, but might be worth it given the reduced complexity of an air cooled system.

                    1. SparkEV says:

                      At 120F heat (or even 100F), you wouldn’t want to charge the car at all, not even L1 never mind DCFC. Without active cooling, driving or charging during summer day would be out the question.

                      Again, if you’re only commuting in morning and evening and charging at night, all when cool, it’s fine. But then why even bother with 60 kWh or even 30 kWh since you won’t go 100 miles a day with such restrictions.

                      I suppose it’s fine if you’re leasing it so that battery degradation is next guys’ problem. Maybe that’s the answer; never buy non-active cooled EV, and let the used ones tank in value.

  7. unlucky says:

    Advertising maxim: advertise your weaknesses. If something isn’t all new, call it all new. It happens with cars all the time including pickup trucks. When doing off-cycle cosmetic refreshes Ford and GM will routinely call their new-looking car “all new” even though it is the same underneath.

  8. Joe says:

    I was wondering. Renault Nissan has always been talking of a new platform used by both Nissan for Leaf and Renault for Zoé starting in 2019/20.

    Which would mean the 2017 Leaf is not a brand new leaf.

  9. David Murray says:

    I see a lot of people barking on about the range and comparing to the Bolt EV. I think sales of the Bolt EV speak for themselves, confirming what I’ve been saying for a while… Range isn’t everything. The Bolt EV is just as much of a “city car” as the Leaf with current charging infrastructure. Remember how many people said that “nobody” would buy the Prius Prime because of it’s pathetic 25 mile range? Nissan can easily sell the new Leaf in large numbers with a 130 to 200 mile range, as long as they get everything else right.

    Remember that in 2017 most buyers care more about the infotainment system than they do about horsepower. I also guarantee you that body style will play a huge role. Most people these days want an SUV. If the vehicle is NOT an SUV then it better darned well be attractive or have some other thing that make people want it. I guarantee you that the 1st Gen Leaf’s absolute biggest barrier to success was its body style.

    My biggest questions about the new Leaf are:

    -Will they switch to CCS fast charging in North America?
    -Will it be liquid cooled battery?
    -Will it be attractive?
    -Will it be a little faster than the old model?

    1. Alan says:

      What barrier to success ? Wasn’t the 1st Gen Leaf the best selling EV on the planet ?

      And still is ?

      1. CLIVE says:

        Absolutely correct ‼️

    2. CLIVE says:

      Not sure they will jump to CCS.

      But they will definitely one-up GM before they get to comfortable.

    3. unlucky says:

      The Bolt outsold the Leaf last month. It has outsold the Leaf in total this year (but not every month). It has outsold the Leaf since its first full month of release.

      I know people had higher hopes for Bolt sales. But if you are going to use sales to support your case versus the Leaf you might want to consider if they actually say what you claim they say.

      1. Alan says:

        In the US only, not worldwide,

        Last I counted, the leaf had passed 300K worldwide sales in total !

        1. unlucky says:

          That’s right. In the US. I should compare Bolt versus LEAF sales in Switzerland when the Bolt isn’t offered there? What sense does that make?

      2. Mikael says:

        Unlucky while thinking once again… the Leaf is the global leader this year. The Bolt is in position number 13.

        So with more than 4 times the sales for the Leaf it is easy to compare.

      3. Mr. M says:

        Wow. The Bolt a new, high range vehicle for a medium price tag outsold a 6,5 years old vehicle, the Leaf, that had a slighly refresh one year ago and costs a little less.

        Sure the Leaf sells not that good at the moment since a lot of people wait for the bolt, m3 and Leaf 2.0 to be available to be compared.

        1. Asak says:

          The Leaf costs a LOT less. The biggest problem for the Bolt is that it’s pretty expensive, you can easily get a Leaf for half as much.

    4. Brian says:

      I’ll bite.

      -Will they switch to CCS fast charging in North America?
      NO, CHAdeMO

      -Will it be liquid cooled battery?
      NO, air-cooled at best

      -Will it be attractive?
      Better than the current Leaf for sure, but that’s highly subjective. To me, tall cars aren’t attractive, so no.

      -Will it be a little faster than the old model?
      Most likely. As I mentioned above, I’m guessing the motor will be 100-125kW, compared to the current 80kW.

    5. Terawatt says:

      Yeah, but equally the Bolt would be selling very well if GM wanted to supply the markets that want to buy it.

      Why is it that Canada can’t get more cars when there’s long waiting lists and USA inventory is just piling up?

      What about South Korea? The allotted cars for 2017 were sold in minutes. They don’t get any more. Why?

      Norway: over 4000 already sold, gets 200 this year. Why?

      You may be right Americans don’t want to buy it, but it’s just as clear Americans don’t want to sell it.

  10. TP says:

    So, I think that like GM did with the Bolt, Nissan might do a slow roll out of the new Leaf in the US. In fact, when I recently took them up on extending my lease, NMAC rep told me that it should be out nation-wide in March 2018.

    Because of that, they needed to extend my original lease end date to Jan 2019, instead of 2018, to ensure I get a chance to see and test drive the 2018 Leaf.

    1. Alan says:

      Maybe you will get lucky and Nissan will give priority to those who are currently in extended lease Leafs !

  11. Josh Bryant says:

    The event is taking place in Japan, like it did for the 2010 LEAF.

    Based on that release date and place, I would expect deliveries to start in Japan in December and maybe California in December too. Probably mid-2018 for non-CARB states to start seeing the LEAF in dealers.

    You hear anything different Jay?

    1. Josh Bryant says:

      I just saw TP’s comment on March-2018 nationwide availability.

      After adding salt to expectations, mid-2018 sounds about right.

      1. Jay Cole says:

        The only known timelines are first deliveries in US for Nov/Dec, open orders in Europe by year’s end (first deliveries in 2018).

        I heard something on Japan for a early 2018 release…but for the life of me, I don’t recall the source and how reliable it was, so take that bit with a grain of salt.

        Will do some follow-up with Nissan to see what other “low hanging fruit” is available on the new LEAF next week (OEM execs not-so-much with working late Fridays/weekends)

  12. SparkEV says:

    If no-charge-to-charge is continued with these bigger battery Leafs, that could effectively kill CCS/Chademo combo DCFC. 30 minutes were enough to charge current Leaf to about 90%, but even then some were plugging in for second 30 minute sessions. With 60 kWh and free charging, people could plug in to DCFC for fifth or sixth time, taking hours.

    Unlike Bolt, which must pay to charge, many Leaf drivers who can charge at home will use free DCFC instead of home charging, making the problem far worse for everyone.

    If Nissan offer free charging with bigger battery Leaf, I’ll have to switch back to gasser while waiting for Tesla 3. Non-Tesla EV will become useless thanks to big battery Leaf who charge for free.

    1. unlucky says:

      It’s time to end no charge to charge. It ruins the ability of EV drivers to count on being able to use infrastructure.

    2. Terawatt says:

      Possibly, but on the other hand if the battery is 60 kWh owners will need DCFC much less often. So if it isn’t simply a matter of grabbing the free stuff because it’s free, congestion might not get a lot worse because of this.

      And all the new stations popping up thanks to the VW dieselgate settlement are probably not useable under the no charge to charge program. This will soon be a network to rival or surpass any existing, so I think you’ll be ok.

      1. unlucky says:

        The problem with no charge to charge is that when fast charging is free it isn’t about whether you NEED to fast charge. No charge to charge drivers owners to fast charge when they could just slow charge or charge at home, because it is free and slow charging (at home or otherwise) is not.

        If new stations aren’t covered by no charge to charge then yes, that’d fix it. I don’t see signs of that happening though. I’ll try to be on the lookout. There’s no way to sort plugshare by “recently installed” so it’s hard to know if there is a correlation between newer chargers and a lack of “no charge to charge”.

      2. SparkEV says:

        Seeing how some people (or maybe most people) like to see high percent charged rather than what they actually use, I suspect those with 60 kWh battery won’t be happy until they see something like 90% showing. Because the battery is so big, it will take much longer to charge to X% with 50 kW DCFC.

        That means even if they started with over 70% already showing (common among Leafs I encounter), it could take 2 or 3 of 30 minute DCFC to get them over 90%.

        It’s also unclear if they’ll cap it to 30 minutes at a time free or simply make it unlimited, in which case people will go shopping for hours while plugged into DCFC.

        Any way you cut it, free charing SUCKS!

    3. Nick says:

      Without no charge to charge, some of these LEAFs would be using gas cars for more of their driving which wouldn’t help anyone.

      1. SparkEV says:

        Leaf drivers are so idiotic as to unwilling to pay $30/mo on DCFC so they will pay $50/mo on gasoline? That makes no sense. I’ve met some idiotic Lead drivers, but no one’s that stupid.

        1. Nick says:

          The EVgo charging stations cost $15 for 30 mins of charging w/o NCTC.

          My LEAF picks up ~12kWh from this. Gas costs $3 per gallon.

          100 miles on gas (20 MPG in my van)
          48 miles in my LEAF (4 Miles/kWh)

          You have to be pretty idealistic to pay such high rates to be green. I drive much more in my LEAF due to NCTC.

  13. Lou Grinzo says:

    Since the earliest days of mass market BEVs (i.e. not something priced in the Teslasphere), I’ve been arguing for companies to make more than one battery pack size available, either as a straight-up option or tied to trim level.

    So I’m happy to see that we will likely get a new Leaf with a 40 or a 60 kWh pack. My guess is Nissan will make the S the 40 and the SV and SL the 60. The goal will be to put out a bare bones 150 miles EV to undercut the Bolt by as many dollars as possible. If they can hit a price point of, say, $28k to $30k pre-incentive for that version, it would be a hit. Heck, I’d likely buy one to replace my 2013 Leaf S.

    Of course, with batteries getting cheaper, we might not see mass market BEVs offer pack options for long. At $100/kWh, a point we’ll reach in not too much longer, the cost differential between a 40 and 60 pack is only $2k, and I doubt many people would be willing to give up a third of their range to save $2k on a new car.

  14. leafowner says:

    Looks a lot like my 2013 Leaf — under a blanket.

    1. MikeM says:

      And I just love the new Garbage-Bag-Chic look.
      Goes with my expensive pre-stained, pre-ripped jeans.

    2. Toni says:

      This, actually, says it all. 😀

    3. leafowner says:

      Does anyone think it will be a hard choice between the Leaf 2 and the Model 3?

  15. Anderlan says:

    It better have a thermally-managed pack. You can’t make a car run at 30+kW for hours, then charge it at 30+kW for 30 minutes, then run it at 30+kW for hours, as one would do on a long road trip, UNLESS you have an actively cooled pack.

  16. Michael Roberts says:

    If it’s a totally new design then I hope they will be using CFRP as they have mentioned this before.

  17. Terawatt says:

    If the 40 kWh pack is top of the line Nissan has given away its lead. But if it’s simply a cheaper option and a 60 kWh version is reasonably priced it should be the biggest player short of – far short of – Model 3.

    1. Jay Cole says:

      There is some debate whether or not Nissan will have all battery pack options available out of the gate (it appears like some regions/assembly plants will, others will offer a staggered roll-out – isn’t the Sunderland plant always behind the curve for Europe?).

      But having seen the finished 60 kWh pack in the concept product (which was co-developed with LG Chem) 2 years ago, I don’t think there is any doubt it is a reality. The attention to detail, fit and finish was just off the chart…not something one finds (or is even shown at all) in products not destined for production.

      They also need it for their “we haven’t shown you yet, but we have two other larger EVs (one utility)” for 2019. I think when Nissan talks about maintaining its leadership position and its build-out capacity worldwide, they aren’t talking so much about the LEAF (although it will still be a big part), but its ‘reasonably priced’ 2019 all-electric offerings that will get it outside of the small/mid-size car market.

      How it will be priced, well that is anyone’s guess.

  18. EVA-01 says:

    Renault-Nissan Alliance is building the next gen EV platform for future cars. The time frame for it is 2019-2020.

    I can’t say it is 100% fact but it is very likely that the 2nd gen Leaf will ride on the same platform as the 1st gen. All that is changing is a new exterior, interior, and larger battery.

    1. Simon says:

      The new leaf will probably look a lot like the new Micra, it’s the new Nissan design:

      https://www.nissan.de/fahrzeuge/neuwagen/micra.html

      1. WARREN says:

        Now that does look very similar

      2. Dcfast says:

        It looks like a big mouth rat.

  19. BillT says:

    We keep our cars 10+ years which means I would really need to be convinced the Leaf’s battery is up the task. I am still pretty skeptical about air cooled batteries.

  20. TheGoatWhisperer says:

    We own a used 2014 BMW I3-ER and lease 2015 Leaf. Drive 60 to 75 m/day. Have 220 charger at our ranch and major solar system. Normal driving, never need to charge away from home on either EV, not used the ER on BMW. Haul 300 to 400 lbs of horse feed in either EV. Love love the BMW. Will replace Leaf w/BMW. Randall at BMW Seattle was fantastic to work with.

  21. Bob Nan says:

    Sep-6 is too far. We will wait.

Leave a Reply