Musk To Potential Tesla Model S P100D Buyer: Buy Now, No Battery Tech Change Planned For 100 kWh

Red Tesla Model S P100D

JUN 24 2017 BY ERIC LOVEDAY 24

Tesla CEO Elon Musk wants its to be crystal clear to potential 100 kWh buyers that the battery tech in those Model S & X EVs won’t change.

There will be no transition to the 2170 cell and no cell chemistry changes for the high-level S or X.

Musk was asked by a potential Tesla Model S P100D buyer whether or not he should wait for the newest battery tech. Musk response was very straightforward:

This would indicate that there’s no battery update coming for the 100 kWh versions of the Model S or X in the foreseeable future.

However, Musk’s comment doesn’t rule out battery tech updates for lower level versions of the S or X.

Interestingly, his comment once again seems to downsell the Model 3 too:

“Model 3 pack is about cost reduction, not performance.”

To recap, if you’re eyeing a 100-kWh Model S or X, but are concerned that battery tech will advance in these vehicles in the near future, worry not. No changes are planned. Go ahead and buy now. And if you’re looking for performance, buy the S or X, not the 3. The 3s virtue is price.

Categories: Tesla

Tags:

Leave a Reply

24 Comments on "Musk To Potential Tesla Model S P100D Buyer: Buy Now, No Battery Tech Change Planned For 100 kWh"

newest oldest most voted
jelloslug

So everything is going to change in 3 months…..

Robert Weekley

Naw….not until they can’t sell enough Model 3’s to use every darm Automotive Version of the 2170 Cell that they are making in GF1 – for World Wide Model 3 Demand!

So, as the Gigafactory grows in output and the Model 3 production ramps up to the 10,000 cars a week pace (late 2018 to maybe Early 2019 if they miss their production goals), you might, I say – MIGHT, Get a change on that, but then, maybe not even then, as by that time the Tesla Semi will start to be needing 2170 cells, then the Pickup after that, and also, the Model Y!

So they might not move the S & X to these cells, until the next Battery/Car Gigafactory is operating, taking some local (Europe / China) load off GF1 and US production demands.

Robert Weekley

By the way Eric, the comment counters are going screwy again: ‘2’ at the top, ‘4’ at the beginning of the comments, after my previous comment!

Not just this article, but similar and maybe worse on the JB Straubel-Model 3 Battery needs article (4/10)!

Jay Cole

Hey Robert,

Its the automatic spam filter hiding them, the the “post counter” below the story is still counting the net amount (our front page/top of story counter, where most people first identify the discussion traffic, only tracks the live comments).

Instead of deleting them outright, we let them pile up behind the scenes, and then a few times a week we quickly check to see if a comment or two got lost/improperly filtered among the thousands of offers for shoes, dating sites and pharmaceuticals.

Generally we get about ~5,000 of these a week, so it can get the “faux count numbers” in the actual story moving up fast. Will look them over/delete them now, so you can see the numbers re-balanced…at least for a few minutes, (=

OCRyan

…because the 2170 upgrade will make it ~120kWh pack, making it a “technically true” statement 🙂

Pushmi-Pullyu
Once upon a time, long long ago… Well no, actually, it hasn’t been that many months ago that Elon said Tesla had no plans to upgrade the Model S from 90 kWh to 100 kWh. And wasn’t it less than a year later when Tesla started offering exactly that? I guess Elon thinks it’s now his daytime job (when he’s not at SpaceX) to fight the Osborne Effect on the Models S and X. Hey, you should buy the Model S or Model X now, today! The Model 3 is definitely not as good, so if you want the best, stick to the MS or MX! There’s nothing coming that’s better than what we’re selling right now, really, no plans in the works. Honest! Have I ever lied to you? …wait, don’t answer that. 😉 C’mon, Elon. You already said Tesla is gonna transition the MS and MX over to the 2170 cells. And we know you’ll do it. Do you really think we’d just forget you said that was gonna happen before the end of the year? Now, maybe you’ve decided to delay that for one reason or another. But we don’t have to be an Einstein to figure… Read more »
Four Electrics

+1

Spot on, PP!

Bul_gar

110-115kWh battery pack in 2018 I expect from Tesla. That bigger pack will be good for Model X users

FISHEV

Since Tesla/Musk has stated that the Model S and X will be the top technology models, then the 2170 battery is not the top Tesla technology, offering no technological advantage, just a mfg cost advantage.

That’s OK. Good information.

HipPriest

Even if they did change the pack construction it probably wouldn’t affect the ownership experience. If I was buying now I’d be more worried about a pending CPU upgrade for the screen UI.

Jim Whitehead

Astute answer. We know Musk has to keep the factory humming. So cheaper upgrade packs will arrive sometimes in the future after the Model 3 ramps up.

BTW, faithful Teslarians were confused by the recent backtracking on “free” Supercharging. (Example: DAERIC’s youtube a month ago:

It seems that Musk changed his tune when many S and X cars in the pipeline were suddenly getting cancelled by his repeat buyers!

So it seems that even the Great and Powerful Oz-Musk (who some here call a trickster or showman) relies on us mere mortals to do his bidding. Its like when in the Wizard of Oz, Dorothy shamed Oz into keeping a promise to take her home, so Musk is keeping his promises a little longer on Supercharging, to take us home free. 😉

*** NEW Easter Egg Suggestion for Tesla ***

When you say the phrase in an S or X: “There is NO PLACE LIKE HOME” let the car plot a route home, with an animation and with a little music, if they are able. Move over Rainbow Road, and watch the Oz-Musk car take you home!

TM

Vote with your money (purchases) and you can influence the future.

George Bower

The question i still have is whether tesla has upgraded chemistry/anode or cathode tech beyond the 90 kwh packs. The 90 packs cells have an anode with a small percentage silicone and AFAIK the higjest energy density in kwh/kg.

I saw pmpu elon quote that the 2170 will have both new chemistry ANDnew form factor. However, that statement was before the 90 pack release with silicon anode. So until someone can prove otherwise i’m of the opinion that the 2170 cells don’t have any cell chemistry or anode/cathode tech beyond what tesla is in the 90 kwh packs.

Pushmi-Pullyu

Yeah, the quote I cited was a few years old, and I’m sure Panasonic isn’t sitting on its hands regarding upgrading the cells to stay competitive with other battery makers.

But if I was to guess, I’d guess that Panasonic has upgraded the cell chemistry in the 18650 cells, but not the physical properties of the electrodes (anodes and cathodes). Changing the physical form of the electrodes would be far easier to do when creating a new form factor… like the 2170.

George Bower

“But if I was to guess, I’d guess that Panasonic has upgraded the cell chemistry in the 18650 cells, but not the physical properties of the electrodes (anodes and cathodes)”

-PMPU

“In addition to the awesome engineering achievements that push the power limits to new heights, CEO Elon Musk revealed a bit more about the increase in energy density of the cells in the new 90 kWh pack. During a conference call, Musk told reporters that “it is, actually, as a result of improved cell chemistry.We’re shifting the cell chemistry for the upgraded pack to partially use silicon in the anode. ”

https://chargedevs.com/features/tesla-tweaks-its-battery-chemistry-a-closer-look-at-silicon-anode-development/

Pushmi-Pullyu

Thanks, georgeS! I’m happy to be proven wrong here.

It’s hard to keep up with everything Tesla is involved with.

jh

Ahum. I wouldnt wait to invest in the S for a better battery. It is already good enough. However, I dont believe him for a second that he will keep the current battery for any longer period of time. When you have a new cell which is demonstrably better i would expect it to actually turn up in teh new flag ships…

Adam Non

Not to say Elon Musk is lying, but he’s clearly saying what he needs to say rather than what the customer needs to hear.

For example, Tesla has already boasted expectations for radically faster charging. 100D drivers will either pay for a retrofit or miss out completely on the faster charging; so yes, they will “worry” about range.

Of course Tesla will be preoccupied with the Model 3 for the next 12+ months, so a truck announcement is just to upset Nikola and their truck and the 100 was just to counter FF.

The next we see of Tesla will be counterpunches as competitors come along or once buyers slow down on the S and X.

Bruce Miller

Science marches on in China, and now it is supercharged with supercomputers and AI(Artificial Intelligence) advances the American Scientific pool can only dream about. Should the massive Chinese intellectual Pool turn its assets towards electric storage systems, and manage to break away from the low voltage high current Li battery systems currently in vogue we may see the birth of even Super Capacitor/high voltage static systems and AC systems running with pf’s that could astound. Chinese science is on the cusp of these raging technologies while Trump wishes a coal fired vehicle upon us?
China wishes to export Chinese built electrics to Canada in large numbers and very soon. Perhaps they will be Tesla spawned? All Aluminum bodies? Utility 1/4 tonnes with all wheel drive for Canada’s winters?

Jason

I believe the 2170 is slightly taller than the 18650, if that is the case then Tesla may need to redesign and retool the model S/X to fit those cells in. You would think an update to the model S would be due soon, so maybe that is when we see the new cells in model S.
Agree with earlier poster, if the new cell is cheaper to make and has better characteristics, then they will implement it ASAP. Anything to reduce costs and maximize profits, just a matter of time.

Pushmi-Pullyu

“I believe the 2170 is slightly taller than the 18650…”

Yes. The dimensions, in millimeters, are given in the form factor labels:

2170 = 21 mm x 70 mm
18650 = 18 mm x 65.0 mm

“…if that is the case then Tesla may need to redesign and retool the model S/X to fit those cells in.”

Surprisingly, we are told there is sufficient “head room” inside the existing S/X battery pack cases to fit the new cells in. Of course, the interior of the packs will have to be redesigned to hold a fewer number of larger cells.

LS

Wording is important.
Elon wrote “No plans to change 100kwh pack tech”.
That was probably true when he wrote it. That may not be true in a month.
And he specifically mentions the 100kwh, not a potential 80kwh or 110-120kwh battery.
This tweet reply very precisely to the question to avoid giving away any additional information, which was probably the hope of the first tweeter.

Pushmi-Pullyu

“…a truck announcement is just to upset Nikola and their truck and the 100 was just to counter FF.”

Somehow I rather doubt Tesla is much concerned about the claims of all-hat-and-no-cattle wannabe EV makers like Nikola, or sham companies like Faraday Failure Future.

Rod Moore

From the article “Interestingly, his comment once again seems to downsell the Model 3…” “And if you’re looking for performance, buy the S or X, not the 3. The 3s virtue is price.” Eric Lovejoy

The final comments tells me that Eric hasn’t been following Tesla at all. Before Tesla was even a company. Musk wanted to build a low cost electric vehicle in mass quantities. The Model 3 {E} is that vehicle. All of the other Tesla vehicles are priced high to subsidizes the 3. One major way to keep the price down had always been to cut performances.