Lucid Air Is Highlighted And Discussed By Fully Charged – Video

JAN 23 2017 BY MARK KANE 16

[description for double check]

The Lucid Air,  which was just unveiled in December, is featured by Robert Llewellyn at Fully Charged, who added his own insights to the discussion.

Lucid Air

Lucid Air

“The recent launch of the Lucid Air luxury electric car was almost drowned by the din of global political news, but I think it’s worth mentioning.”

To our taste, the Lucid Air is one of the better concept newcomers, and if the company’s finances stay solvent (always a question when Faraday and LeEco boss Jia Yueting is involved, albeit not as the only backer in the case), we could have another luxury halo car, attracting consumers to EVs as something truly special in the future.

Fully Charged rightly ask whether we shouldn’t have more electric cars for the masses instead of the more premium offerings.

Well, we should, and we will see them coming step by step – such as the Chevrolet Bolt EV and Renault ZOE Z.E. 40, which are the two currently attempting to combine longer ranges with relative affordability.

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16 Comments on "Lucid Air Is Highlighted And Discussed By Fully Charged – Video"

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Robert Llewellyn said”…It would of course be amazing if a Silicon Valley startup started to produce smaller cheaper cars that more people can afford…I know it’s a crazy idea…”

The lower cost Tesla Model 3 with Supercharger access sure seems to be more on the mark (except Tesla no longer a startup) for Llewelyn’s “would be amazing” rant…much more so than the very expensive Lucid Air with no Supercharger access. I generally ;ike Llewelyn’s videos bit this one seemed disjointed…oddly conflated.

I don’t think you wanted “conflated”, which means combined; begging the question: “conflated with what?”:

past tense: conflated; past participle: conflated
combine (two or more texts, ideas, etc.) into one.
“the urban crisis conflates a number of different economic and social issues”
synonyms: mix, blend, fuse, unite, integrate
“the plot gets weighed down when the writers conflate too many issues into one episode”


Putting all these topics in a single video podcast is indeed an exercise in conflating:

1) Good product presentation skills (Steve Jobs, Elon Musk, & Lucid Motors) vs. bad product presentation skills (Faraday Future)

2) Lucid Cars is a Silicon Valley startup set to make very expensive cars…wishi them great success…but Tesla Motors has an advantage over Lucid Motors.

3) We don’t need another expensive EV car maker …we need inexpensive EVs.

4) EV Car sharing is better than EV private ownership.

Words often have more than one meaning, and often most of those meanings are rarely seen in actual usage.

I think that generally in current usage, the word “conflated” is usually meant as “confused”; as in having confused one thing or one idea for another.

For example:

“I was irritated by the way he conflated his own shifting needs with an impersonal destiny. I want it, therefore… it’s in the stars!” — Ian McEwan

@PuPu said: “Words often have more than one meaning, and often most of those meanings are rarely seen in actual usage…”

Glad to learn words can have more than one meaning. For my intended use of “conflated” I’ll go with @Brian’s above dictionary sited example use “the plot [main topic] gets weighed down when the writers conflate too many issues into one episode”.

There are only a few ways to make an affordable long range electric car today:

Bolt – Get LG to supply you with batteries, drive units, electronics, etc and sell it at a loss. A startup would have trouble attracting an “LG” to do that and also can’t afford to lose a bunch of money per unit. Scratch that off.

Tesla – Buy/Build multi-billion dollar car and battery factories for many years before putting out your first vehicle. Overnight setup a service network to handle the 100s of thousands of lower price cars you produce a year. That’s not possible for a startup either.

Uber – Buy autonomous technology companies and retrofit cars by other manufacturers to start your own autonomous taxi service. Good luck dealing with that bureaucratic uphill fight as a startup.

Don’t get me wrong, I like the Bolt and the Model 3, but for a vast majority of people, both are too expensive.

So Robert Llewellyn is asking startups to do what established players in the industry can’t even do currently.

“Can’t even do currently.” If “they” the “established players” had battery suppliers that were dishing out sweetheart deals like GM got for the Bolt, “they” would be building Bolt competitors for the vast majority of people. Battery suppliers and “established players” are way playing catchup to Tesla and its Model three launch. This supply issue you will be able so witness in the next 12 – 18 months. Some call it “first mover advantage”. Advantage Tesla?


I know it’s frustrating to us EV advocates who want the EV revolution to triumph and gasmobiles to become obsolete right now, but we’re going to have to wait awhile longer until we get that Holy Grail, the “everyman” EV. Neither the Bolt nor the Model ≡ will be in the price range of an everyman car.

So while I hope every day to wake up and find that what Mr. Llewellyn wants has happened, I know perfectly well it’s not going to happen for at least a few more years.

Yeah, the “Everyman Car” (cost/ range-ICE equivalent), that is the “Holy Grail” of EV adoption, is still a ways off. Once autonomous driving and increasing car insurance costs become more widespread, it will make owning a daily driver in metro areas, less affordable for the frugal daily commuter. Until then, the ICE OEMs will not embrace the EV cost parity business model (less Fed/State subsidy).

The ICE OEMs are shooting for the profit center of car sharing, on EV platforms for the urban/metro commuter market. This is the Avenue of where their current shareholders and their future dividend revenue will come from. It certainly won’t be realized on the roll out of EVs, with little or almost no maintenance profits. OEMs can’t abandon their dealer network, while handing them an empty returning customer revenue sack. Manufacturers have to move dealers into fleet upkeep and maintenance, for the longevity of their brand, in the coming autonomous car sharing fleets. That business model is the start of a new revenue generator of 2020 and beyond, for urban and metro car dealers and their manufacturers.

Thanks for your thoughtful response, William.

However, I disagree on two points:

1. Fully autonomous cars will reduce insurance rates sharply, because they will reduce accident rate sharply. According to the NHTSA, a significantly lower accident rate is already happening with Tesla cars which have Autopilot/AutoSteer installed. That, in turn, will make owning cars more affordable, not less.

2. I don’t see the dealership business model surviving the EV revolution. Surviving legacy auto makers will abandon that model for direct sales, both because EVs don’t need as much service — thus significantly reducing the income dealerships get — and because ordering a car online has made “cutting out the middleman” of the dealership not only possible, but more profitable for the auto maker.

All just my opinions, of course.

I recall reading that the average new car price in America is $33,000. So if those two cars are too expensive for the vast majority of Americans, then we can say that new cars in general are too expensive for most Americans. Which is why most sales are of used cars. There’s not much we can do about that now.

Average is not a good metric to use for justifying the price of an “every man’s car”. If one person buys a $1m bugatti and 99 people by a $20k car, the average car price of that group is ~$30k… $10k over the budget of 99 out of the 100 buyers. You want to look at median new car prices.

Lucid has a fine looking car, Tesla S owners looking to trade up in a few years may be interested.

That would be an interesting Tesla Customer Conquest by Lucid motors. I for one, would love to see Tesla have at least Two other Competitors for the Tesla model S and X. Without supercharging support, I don’t see Lucid or Faraway Future, bringing that cross shopping choice, to potential first time Tesla customers any time soon. No charging support, NO SALE, on an expensive car with 100+ kWh battery.