Limited Range Forces Trucking Company To Rule Out Tesla Semi

Silver Tesla Semi cab, back view

JAN 20 2018 BY ERIC LOVEDAY 146

Tesla Semi

Not everyone is satisfied with Tesla’s electric semi.

For example, a senior vice president at trucking firm Daseke Inc. says that range is impractical. The range figures put forth by Tesla are 300 and 500 miles respectively for each of the two different versions of the Semi. However, without Megachargers everywhere, Daseki thinks those figures are just too low.

Other major companies obviously disagree, or else they would not have placed orders ranging upwards of 100 units in some cases.

While no real specifics have been released in regards to the Megacharger, we note that Tesla itself stated that Megachargers will be able to add around 400 miles of range in 30 minutes. Teslarati recently examined this claim in detail and came to discover the following:

“Tesla’s Megacharger would need to have a tremendous power output of 1.6 MW, or thirteen times the power level of a standard Supercharger to be able to replenish 400 miles of battery range in 30 minutes. This, of course, is based on the assumption that the Tesla Semi will consume 2 kWh of energy per mile which in reality will probably be less, as Tesla notes.”

We honestly don’t think it’s likely we’ll see these 1.6 MW chargers on trucking routes across the U.S. It’s just not feasible to support such a network. However, there may be hubs here and there in or outside of major trucking areas. This probably won’t put to rest Daseke’s concern, as it seems they are more into long-haul trucking, but for more regional routes, Megachargers here and there should suffice.

Tesla Semi

Source: WSJ

Categories: Tesla

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146 Comments on "Limited Range Forces Trucking Company To Rule Out Tesla Semi"

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For long haul, that’s spot on, 300 to 500 is not enough.

My last 6 days…..
558
573
505
511
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Whole bunch of bad weather in those figures too. These numbers are a bit low than normal. It’s gonna take huge infrastructure to ever work for long haul.

But there’s huge regional and local markets to fill until investment and technology catch’s up.

Liar!

That’s not lies. That’s from south Florida to upstate New York to twin cities Minnesota now headed back to Florida.

Other issue was minus 9 degrees in Plattsburgh, Ny didn’t see 30 degree weather til Minnesota. All across I90 was in the teens, never above 30 degrees.

So in other words 2 lousy Megacharging stations on the whole east cast would make those trips easily possible?

And also make the total economy very beneficial for you and your trucking company.

You do understand the footprint needed for this type of mega chargers right? How many trucks are going to be able to charge? How is This feasible for Tesla when they promised 7 cents per kw? Where is the power coming from at these stops to allow that type of current? These things aren’t easy to implement.

Where is all that power coming from? Probably a power line of some sort. I know a guy who works in a chemical plant. That one plant is about the size of a few football fields and consumes as much electric power as an entire city with over 100 k people living there, including some other industry. Before that plant was built, there was no power there, either. Then they built a power line.

The problem with your example is that the chemical plant makes HUGE profits using that electricity.

A multiple bay, mega-watt charging station is going to have to sell a hell of a lot more than just coffee and donuts to a few truckers to do the same.

Economics not “feel good” reasons will drive this.

Demonstrating the same ignorance of industrial electricity rate structure as Salim Moorsby.

So Bunny; you are admitting you drove over 10 hours without breaks on all of those days and thus exceeding tge safety mandates??
Glad I don’t share the road with you in this fantasy.

Didn’t the Tesla grid storage site in Australia got paid to soak up an oversupply of power last week? “Buying” power for -7 cents a kWh and selling for 7 cents a kWh is a 14 cent profit in my book.

So yes – Megacharger sites will be coupled with gridstorage and both together will be feaseable.

I do. And it’s a pretty small foot print. There are no problems getting electricity to a new industry or a neighborhood, let alone a fairly small user like this along the highways were transmissions lines generally already are.
And providing them with electricity is no problem either.

Teslas economics on the other hand are their problem. I generally count with a lot higher electricity price when looking at electric trucks and their profitability.

But the only real question here is if it is enough for the trucker companies, not how Tesla will make the Megachargers happen.

Steve said: “How many trucks are going to be able to charge?” Obviously only one at at time, per Megacharger. The logistics of scheduling charging, and ensuring enough chargers are installed to properly serve the trucking fleet, is going to be one of the challenges for future trucking fleets. I’m assuming each individual trucking fleets will be using its own Megachargers, not sharing them with the general public. Opening them up for public use would make scheduling impossible. “How is This feasible for Tesla when they promised 7 cents per kw?” What’s the challenge with 7¢ per kWh? The U.S. national average price for industrial power was 6.95¢/kWh, according to the latest data available at the U.S. Energy Information Administration’s website (link below). “Where is the power coming from at these stops to allow that type of current? These things aren’t easy to implement.” This ongoing theme of “where are they gonna get the power from?” is rather silly. You have to be pretty ignorant of how much power industrial users use, and even some large commercial users, to think that a 1.2 MW hookup would be difficult to implement. Some large skyscrapers draw up to 10 MW, and many… Read more »

Running the necessary, industrial sized power structure along highways to stops that were never intended to support that is no small feat. Acting like they are just going to install a mega charger anywhere they want is foolish without paying for serious infrastructure to support it.

Next time you drive by a truck stop take a look at how many trucks are parked there at a time. Having one mega charger at a stop is stupid and in no way a game changer. There needs to be multiple stalls that can support trailers and cabs alike. Thats where the space comes in.

“So in other words 2 lousy Megacharging stations on the whole east cast would make those trips easily possible?” Are you serious? What trucking company would be willing to limit its routes to only those which happened to run past just two places on the entire east coast? Or to re-route all its trucks so they run past those two places? You also rather casually ignore the question of just how many Megachargers would need to be installed at each location to ensure that no truck that’s on a schedule would ever need to wait for another truck to finish charging. Customers using just-in-time delivery schedules are not likely to consider “Sorry your shipment was late; our truck had to wait in line to charge” to be a valid reason for a delayed shipment. “And also make the total economy very beneficial for you and your trucking company.” You aren’t in any position to tell Bunny what will or won’t work for his (her?) company. Somehow I think s/he knows more about his/her own company’s economics practical needs than you do. Bunny may have a bias against Tesla, or against EVs in general, but that’s no reason to ignore what… Read more »

You don’t sell trucks to truckers because they are generally idiots (of course with plenty of exceptions) who can’t count. You sell trucks to trucking companies and fleet managers and then truckers get to drive whatever the company/fleet manager decide is best.

And you were missing the whole point, as you often do. The point being that a route he described would have been easily served by for him if he could do two stops at Megachargers.
Showing the simplicity of long haul fixed routes being served. It’s no different from the beginning of the BEV car era. Familiar to us who have been driven BEVs for a long time.

sounds reasonable to me. Not sure why you need to make such an accusation.

Everyone’s on edge here. Looking for the Tesla shorts who run constant misinformation campaigns in these comments.

Going public might have been a net bad for Tesla for this reason.

I agree, there has been all too much polluting of discussion here by incessant, hard-core Tesla haters, and it seems to get worse when the price of Tesla’s stock climbs significantly, as it has recently.

But I don’t think Bunny is here for the purpose of bashing Tesla, as the hardcore Tesla haters do. As I recall, he/she has posted before about the trucking industry, and I think we should consider what s/he says with an open mind.

And you did that nonstop? Kinda illegal in the EU but maybe it’s different in the USA.

Yeah, it is different in the USA. Truckers can drive up to 11 hours in a shift with only a half-hour break for lunch. Some routes run as much as 700+ miles, with the maximum being about 800.

Even longer distances in a day are possible by using two truckers per truck, but that’s pretty uncommon.

And on all those drives you didn’t stop once? Because if a restroom stop takes 8 minutes and 30 minutes would give you 400 miles, a restroom stop would give you 100 miles and all your driving would be possible.

That’s running under current DOT rules
14 hour day , 30 minute break within 8 hours, can’t drive more than 11/day, 10 hour mandatory break (sleep). All load and unload times under 2 hours so no detention.

Carry up to 300 gallons fuel so do not stop often for fuel, can easily go 1,800 miles without buying fuel but normally shop best fuel prices and fill accordingly.

Time wise also add in pretrips, post trip inspections.

Nothing amazing here, just daily driving.

That sounds about, right. I used to drive only local, 90% highway and I would put on 250 miles in 10 hours.
Sometimes I would go out of town, putting on upwards of 500 miles. Drove a couple of times 15 hours straight, but that was before electronic tracking.
Btw, just in case people don’t have a clue, a lot of drivers break the rules.

Yes. That is why electronic logging finally is coming the US this year, a decade later than in Europe.

Probably they can still find ways to cheat, especially if company forces them. Then they get into accident, and truck accident lawyer would crack their cheating open in no time as before. Guess who will be on hook then, assuming he is alive.

How can you do 15 hours staight without a restroom brake? Wearing diapers? I mean… ok, Astronauts do that too… but…

Per: “normally shop best fuel prices and fill accordingly.” = Megachargers!

From a business standpoint, Tesla megachargers=monopoly.

Look at it this hypothetical: Petebuilt invents a new diesel truck that gets 25mpg (WOW!) but you can only buy the special diesel mix from them. As a company buyer, would you place a large order?

If Peterbilt would guarantee to install a fueling station everywhere the trucking fleet needed one, then sure, why not?

The problem with a monopoly is that, potentially, it allows the company to charge anything it wants for its product or service. That’s not a problem so long as the company doesn’t engage in price gouging. And so long as Tesla adheres to its policy of running its chargers at cost, rather than being profit-makers for Tesla, then that won’t be a problem.

And if Tesla does decide to start price gouging, well then the trucking company can find another installer for its needed chargers, and can negotiate with the local power company for itself. Tesla will have an advantage with electricity pricing because it can balance costs on a nationwide basis, and its 7¢/kWh price is slightly below the national average of 6.95¢/kWh for industrial electric power. A trucking company located in a market with high cost for electricity will be at a disadvantage compared to Tesla, in that regard.

Lots of “what if’s” and no guarantees in that. Not what purchasing agents/committees want to hear. 😉

“And on all those drives you didn’t stop once? Because if a restroom stop takes 8 minutes and 30 minutes would give you 400 miles, a restroom stop would give you 100 miles and all your driving would be possible.”

There’s a mandatory 30-minute stop for lunch, so it might work for a trucking company that runs a regular route to (pay Tesla to) install one or more Megachargers where its truckers stop for lunch. But at best that would reduce flexibility, and complicate logistics and scheduling.

If Bunny’s company does mostly one-off runs to different locations, rather than regularly scheduled routes, then that’s not going to work for them at all.

In CA, speed limit for trucks is 55 MPH. 8 hours at 55 MPH is 440 miles, and that’s assuming zero traffic (which is impossible) and no breaks. 500 miles range is about the maximum for daily driving, even 300 miles would be more than plenty enough in many parts of CA that’s perpetually clogged with traffic.

I95, I90 , I88 , I65 , I24 I 75 is 65mph or 70mph
Have 72 mph Volvo

Yeah California sucks for trucking I lived out there for 20 years.

Are those speed limits also for trucks? At every place with >55 MPH limit for cars, there’s another sign that states vehicles towing stuff is limited to 55 MPH.

Most truckers don’t drive at that speed, but much faster. You can through at 80 mph in MT. Not sure anymore, but you can go pretty fast 70-75 through the northern tier, and most of the mid-west.

A tractor-trailer, is not the same as towing a trailer, like a U-Haul.

Most trucks drive at the limit. I suspect the companies enforce the rule via black box or other means, if not for fuel savings then for liability / insurance reasons. Sure, there are some who drive faster, but they seem to be small / independent operators who are not likely to get Tesla semi for quite a while.

Right.

I’m just an outsider looking in, so I may be wrong, but I get the impression that the flagrant disregard of mandatory breaks and maximum driving hours per day*, as well as ignoring speed limits, is much more frequent among independent truckers than it is among drivers working for trucking fleets.

Tesla isn’t even trying to market its Semi Truck to independent truckers. The economics will be quite different for them. They won’t be able to afford to pay Tesla to install Megachargers everywhere they would need one. And the need to stop during a long haul run to recharge will reduce the, um, “flexibility” that independent truckers have in ignoring the rules about maximum driving hours per day, and taking breaks.

*There is a reason why truckers use the term “swindle sheets” for the driving logs they are required to keep. 😉

weird, I didn’t know in some states you had to drive slower while towing something. In my state anyone/everyone can go 80mph.

Well, I am talking about California, the state run by nuts and fruits.

Driving a Simi at 80 in the middle of the desert is fine. The same in a place with people is insane.

Not according to Ayn Randian disciples.

Truckers don’t drive 80 MPH down crowded roadways not because some bureaucrat said so, but because they fear causing crashes and hurting themselves and their wallet. Rational self interest is what drives everyone, not because of some nagging nanny.

Left wingers think everyone’s still in kindergarten who blindly obey what the authority figure tells them to do. You might try graduating from kindergarten by reading Ayn Rand, especially “the virtue of selfishness”

And why do you think a Tesla Semi can not do that? If you drive 7 hours at a speed of 55 miles that is 385 miles. If you go to the rest room and have a sandwich or so the truck will be fully charged. Then you have another 4 hours. That is 11 hours which is your limit and you traveled 385+220=605 miles. So it is perfectly fine.

yea, it took Tesla 6 years to build SuperCharger network to cover all major roads. It will take another several years to do the same with trucking. But that future is coming faster than people think.

sorry, that was supposed to be a reply to scott :-/

There is no rational reason to think Tesla is going to build Megachargers anywhere except where trucking fleets pay to install them for their own private use, or where Tesla needs them for its own uses.

And it will almost certainly be many years before we see for-profit BEV truck stops as commonplace as diesel truck stops are now. The idea that today (or anytime in the next 5-7 years, at least) a BEV semi truck driver could charge up anytime he stopped for a bathroom break is rather silly. He’ll charge up where his trucking company has paid to have a Megacharger (or its equivalent) installed, and nowhere else.

makes sense to me. Local and regional routes should be the sweet spot for now while batteries improve and megacharger infrastructure is built out. Should be more than enough market to keep Tesla busy for many years even without long haul.

+1

Not only Tesla
There is huge market short and regional

Companies buying Tesla Semi Know WHAT they are Buying, WHY they are buying, and WHERE they will Run it! If they Need any Mega Chargers, they simply will Tell Tesla, and together, they will work out placement and capacity for such sites!

Most Mega Chargers placed initially will be driven by Large Company Semi Purchases! Later, Tesla will add others to attract smaller buyers, other types of customers!

+1

Well said! …altho I think the assertion in your last sentence is questionable. Maybe, maybe not.

Like elon said 80% of routes are less than 500 , 1st Gen also new battery tech will double that once they get off technology suppression. Also a trucking company may have a charged truck waiting at a exchange point for trailer swap.

Just Like Pony Express, had Fresh Horses at defined intervals! Or, how Formula E swaps cars!

Or Tesla could bring back battery swap. Battery swap makes far more sense since it can be charged on “trickle charge” like 50 kW while the truck is moving.

you held your piss/poop for 500+ miles? sure uh huh

Nope
My normal mo is actually couple 30 to 60 minute breaks but thats 9 hours driving WITHIN a 14 hour day,

So, if you had 1 coffee stop (30 minutes) at a Mega Charger, after your first 4 hours (@ 65 Mph = 260 Miles into your day), you could easily top up at a Truck Stop with the Mega Chargers, as marketed!

Plus, you still have that 60 minute stop, and if that was 3 hours later (@65 Mph = 195 miles), you are nearly finished your days drive! If it was also at such a charging stop, you are covered!

If you did that each day, your route only needs 10 Megachargers for your 5 day trip, but 12-14 would give you some flexibility!

With 20 Megachargers – even more stop choices! It Could Work for you, but you likely still need a Sleeper Cab!

For sure on sleeper cab, with bunk heater, battery powered air conditioning when stopped ,microwave and fridge
To be comparable to what I have now.

True But that someone is trying to get have a electric truck available. This is what is so amazing.

“It’s just not feasible to support such a network”

And on what belief/data/analysis do you base this assertion?

And on what belief/data/analysis do you discount this assertion?

They already did it with cars in a spectacular way. That’s not evidence enough from you that at least a good possibility is there?

Of course it will take a while to fill in all the gaps when the trucks will be a lower volume product. But just like the Supercharger network, local routes and common corridors will come first, and it’ll grow from there.

Cars are drastically different, and in ALOT of areas still in this country you couldn’t take a 500 mile trip in an EV without being inconvenienced in a major way.

Unless it was a Tesla, of course.

I think they would start by doing hub work for Walmart, UPS, etc… People they are selling demos to.
Then establish charges in consultation with those firms at their Hubs, in the most population dense areas and in short to medium hauling routes.
Everything that’s easier to automate. Set routes, times, standard loads, etc…

No, even a Tesla. There are major parts of the US that you can’t take trips that exceed the range of a Tesla without being inconvenienced by waiting for it to charge.

Those areas are in northern Alaska, were tzhe bigger inconvenience is the missing roads and the mountaineous terrain without gas stations. Without roads and gas stations, also ICE cars do not fare so well…

No they aren’t. They are in the Northeast too. As well as the mid west and the mid south.

I am not familiar with the EV charging availability in upstate NY

But if you started from Mahwah, NJ
drove to North River NY then up to Plattsburgh NY then cut across westbound to pu I81 to go south to pu I 90 in a car, where would stop to charge?

Well, they don’t have the Semi listed as an option yet, and I don’t plan to buy one. So using the 310 mile range of the Model 3LR, instead of the the 500 mile range of the Semi LR: Start in Mahwah (there is a Supercharger station, but you are assumed to start with some charge already. Charge for 25 minutes at the Supercharger in Queensbury, at the supercharger. Note that this and other charge times are for the Model 3; the Semi will charge much faster, so your actual charge times are different. Stop at your destination in Plattsburg; there is a Supercharger there too. Charge for 40 minutes — less than the planned 120 minute stop. Charge for 40 minutes at the Supercharger in Watertown. Go down I-81 to Syracuse, get onto I-90 towards Cleveland. Charge for 60 minutes at the Supercharger in Victor, just east of Rochester. Charge for 25 minutes in Erie, to finish a trip to Cleveland. I just used Cleveland as an end point, since your last destination was a bit vague — you would obviously charge based on where you were actually going. Google figures this for 847 miles, and about 14.5 hours… Read more »

Crud, I’m so sorry; I seem to keep leaving out important information — ‘fuel’ costs for the example trip from Mahwah to Cleveland is slightly less than US $120 of electricity (at the prices Tesla will be charging at the Megachargers).

@J. L. Brown:

Your reply takes as a fallacious (mistaken) premise that Tesla will be building out a Megacharger network in a pattern similar to Tesla’s Supercharger network. Another fallacy is your premise that Tesla will be building out Megachargers with public access, rather than building them for the use of individual trucking companies.

That’s simply not going to happen. The economic case for Tesla — and for the trucking fleets — is very different than Tesla using Superchargers to help sell its cars.

If you look at the map that J.L Brown posted you’ll see my main point of this. The inconvenience that the driver incurs is so clear. You have to drive a far greater distance which adds time and uses more energy than just driving form point A to point B. Thanks for illustrating my point so clearly J.L.

“They already did it with cars in a spectacular way. That’s not evidence enough from you that at least a good possibility is there?” No, the economic case for building Megachargers for commercial trucking fleets is very, very different from the economic case for Tesla building a nationwide (or continent-wide) network of Superchargers to boost sales of its passenger car BEVs. Trucking companies will need Megachargers installed at specific locations, to meet their specific needs for their specific routes. Also, they will need to have enough chargers available to suit fleet logistics. Fleet operators are not going to put up with trucks with scheduled delivery times having to wait in line to charge. Tesla will negotiate with the trucking companies for the exact location of Megachargers. Since Tesla is promising 7¢/kWh for charging, that rather strongly indicates that Tesla wants to locate Megachargers only where they can get industrial electricity rates. The available locations for Megachargers will therefore be restricted mainly or entirely to industrial areas. Bottom line: In general, Tesla Megachargers will be installed for the proprietary use of individual trucking fleets. They won’t be open for public use by anyone. Tesla may install a very few open to… Read more »

That’s NOT exactly answering his question.

Not non stop that’s on electronic logs.
Running about 9 hours a day, any more than that just burns out your 70.

Those are 1,300 miles + trips, that’s what long haul trucking is all about, I know, been doing this for about 1.3 million miles. That’s why for now, EV is not suitable for LONG HAUL.

Bunny, thank you for sharing your insights and experience. It’s great to have some knowledge dropped on us from someone who actually lives long haul trucking!

Drive safely.

+1

Real life experience vs arm-chair quarterbacks.

Second that. Also hope that Tesla or whoever provides a solution for long haul use in the near future. Folks like Bunny who do this for a living deserve it the most.

Wonder what the real range of a loaded Semi will be driving west on I-70 in Kansas or South Dakota on a slight but constant uphill with 50 mph headwinds and temperatures below freezing. That was a challenge for the Model S until recently with the spacing between the superchargers.

Very good point. Teen degree weather will typically cut EV range around 30%, and a semi will likely be close to the same. Maybe a bit less because of it’s huge battery.
This will we quite interesting to watch unfold… even more interesting than the Model S and it’s superb range and Supercharger infrastructure.

I echo what Rightofthepeople said!

Bunny, thanks muchly for taking the time to give us some useful real-world data, and some “reality checks” to counter the wishful thinking of overly enthusiastic (but not so well informed) EV advocates, some of whom seem convinced that Tesla Semi Trucks are immediately going to be practical and economical for every trucker driving a semi tractor.

I’m also glad to see that you’re open to the possibility that Tesla’s truck really will work for some trucking companies. I certainly hope that proves to be true!

“Other major companies obviously disagree, or else they would not have placed orders ranging upwards of 100 units in some cases.”

You should add, “For their use cases”, you have no idea what their intentions are for the vehicles they have signed up for.

We can be sure that, for the vast majority of purchases of the Tesla Semi Truck, the purpose is to test out the truck in real-world conditions, to see if it will serve the needs of the trucking fleet and — hopefully — save them money.

Some Tesla bashers have asserted that Wal*Mart and other trucking fleets are buying Tesla’s trucks only for greenwashing publicity purposes, but that’s absurd. At most they would only need one or two trucks for press conferences and photo sessions; not dozens!

Here’s maybe more complete example

D=driving time
T=total on duty time
Obviously 30 minute off duty time
Not counted in on duty time

Straight out of electronic logs

558 miles
D 8hr 34 min T 9 hrs 4 min

573 miles
D 9hrs 25 min T 10hrs 2min

505 miles
D 9hrs 50min T 10hrs 54 min

511 miles
D 8hrs 51 min
T 9hrs 30 min

509 miles
D 9hrs 2 min
T 9hrs 56 min

See? Nothing special nor extraordinary.
Just daily driving including inspections , fuel and paperwork. Just have to be able to keep rolling down the road

Would a 30-minute break in the middle of your 500+ mile runs be reasonable? That’s what the megachargers would need to fill up.

I assume you’ve done the numbers on the ROI here and you know that an EV long-haul semi would do the trick.

Now, if you’re hauling hay, pigs, etc., you are not on a megacharger route necessarily. I genuinely hope the Tesla Semi works for you eventually. You sound like the backbone of a lot of our cushy, city lives and I am grateful for what you do, every day. Also, I hope you don’t have issues hauling pork. I hear that there are a number of truckers who won’t, due to religious reasons.

I don’t doubt your veracity but I don’t see where/why it won’t work. In fact I could see a younger hungrier couple easily making it work as a team. It may not be viable for all long haul routes due to MC placement but it can work for many and for those who can figure out how to make it work there will be financial rewards. As it proliferates those who can’t adjust will have to accept lower margins.

It’s only going to work for long-haul trucking where it makes sense for the trucking company to pay Tesla to install a Megacharger at the beginning and at the end of the route. That means it’s only going to work if the trucking company runs the same route several times a week.

If Bunny’s trucking company mostly does individual runs, rather than regular routes, then it’s not going to work for them, no matter how many times you insist it will.

And that’s the best-case scenario. Since we haven’t seen these trucks tested in real-world conditions, we don’t know that it will make economic sense to run the trucks where they have to stop in the middle of a day’s run for a charge. Charging the battery pack twice per day may wear it out so fast that using a diesel tractor would be cheaper.

Arguably, it makes no sense for an (apparently) not very large company like Bunny’s to buy Tesla Semi Trucks until the economic case has been explored by larger trucking companies, ones which can better afford the loss if the Tesla Semi Trucks turn out to be impractical for them.

I didn’t say it would work for Bunny. In fact it is more likely to put Bunny out of a job if he can’t adjust. Someone else can make it work by charging a few minutes along the way and adjusting their stop to match a charger availability that can be used during the mandatory 10 hr break. Obviously that does not need to be a MC. The driver that can make it work has a higher profit margin. If he needs to make up some time then he can afford to make a deal where he is compensated for excessive wait time during loading and unloading. The benefit to his customers (or their competitors) is lower cost if they have their act together. There are going to be multiple changes but that is the nature of disruptive tech. Decades ago I worked in a warehouse as a lunk loader. Everyday we loaded a company truck which drove to UPS and then coworkers unloaded at UPS. uPS employees then loaded the their truck with what had been unloaded. This was how it had been done for ages. The first time I was allowed to go to UPS to unload I… Read more »
The transition isn’t going to come all at once, and independent truckers like Bunny comprise a large part of the freight carriers. That portion of our national trucking fleet isn’t going to disappear overnight, or even in several years. Any independent trucker that Bunny is competing with is going to have the same limitations: Nowhere to easily or quickly charge up a BEV semi tractor except at fleet chargers which they either don’t have access to, or would have to pay a probably excessively high rate to use it. You might almost call it… a monopoly on Megachargers by large trucking companies. Sure, over time, BEV trucking is going to eat into Bunny’s market. But how soon do you think that’s going to happen? Tesla isn’t even planning to start selling its Semi Trucks for (optimistically) nearly two years, and when it does, it’s going to be an immeasurably tiny portion of the market for at least a few years. I would guess it’s going to take at least 20 years before diesel semi tractors are largely replaced by BEV semi tractors, and likely even longer before they are a rare sight. There will always be a need for independent… Read more »

Since you do Long Haul, it seems you also need more than their current Day Cab, but with your 1-2 stops per day, the Proposed Megachargers if situated right, on your route, would be ok for you! Just contact Tesla and see if a Sleeper Cab is in the Works, and if your Route would get 12-20 Megachargers on it!

If you consider 5 blatant excess of driving above 8 hours a day as nothing special, then you may as well pass through red lights and cross white lines or drive in a no truck streets. Lol.

I don’t understand all of the fuss. So the 1st generation transfer EVs don’t fit 100% of the market. Or there simply is doubt of whether they will. There are plenty of orders in on the trucks where they definitely fit the driving needs and literally a fortune will be saved in those scenarios.

If every truck driver placed an order today, they could not supply the need even if every truck manufacturer converted. Makes much more sense to go after the truck routes with the best fits.

So many paradigms to be changed. If the economics are there, the driver may be forced to take the charging break due to profitability. Hey wait, in five years, there won’t be a driver in the semi anyway so the entire argument on what a semi driver does is moot.

Well said!

Let’s wait to see if the large trucking companies can make the economics and logistics of using Tesla Semi Trucks work for them, for at least some of their routes. It’s absurd to argue that 100% of semi tractor-trailer rigs should be using BEV tractors starting tomorrow.

The market will determine how fast, or how slowly, BEV trucks are going to penetrate the heavy trucking market.

Another Euro Point of view

Quite a few articles that could rub Tesla worshiper’s noses too hard against reality lately (this one, control arms malfunction, auto wipers flop, autonomous vehicles debacle). It is perhaps time for Insideevs to give them a little holidays of such news otherwise we are at risk to witness a fanbois meltdown, or worse, implosions 🙂 🙂

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FF0tar_bG_Y

The only meltdowns are the ones by Another Euro Troll pov and other serial Anti-Tesla trolls as Tesla disrupts long-stagnant industries for the better.

Kind of like what Tesla is doing to MB S Class sales and soon to BMS 3 series/MB C class and Audi 4.

The vaunted Europeans are being beaten for the first time ever in the sport luxury space.

Here’s a better idea: InsideEVs should give us a holiday during which serial Tesla hating trolls like you are banned from disrupting meaningful discussion with your FUD, your lies, and your half-truths.

Just imagine how much more enjoyable it would be, for the average reader and for genuine EV fans alike!

Ignore the excessive troll sensitivity on this board. Real world long haul driving experience is good to know for the discussion. Looking at you numbers and assuming Tesla’s specs are accurate for 60mph good weather driving. Of course there’s no way of knowing if Tesla will incorporate other features into the semi that will mitigate most of the cold weather range loss seen in their passenger vehicles, but let’s assume worst case and they don’t do anything differently. 15% loss is a reasonable number long-haul cold weather driving. That’s reduces the 500 mile version to 425 miles at 60mph average. Given the Tesla Semi’s ability to maintain speed up inclines and much improved acceleration how much time would you expect to save in a typical day’s drive? 15min? Seems like 600 miles is beyond what you like to drive in a day. Your looking a one 30 min megacharging stop per day. I’m assuming many of these will be located at truck stops. COrrect me if I’m wrong but this would shorten your day by the incline speed saving if the charging stop is combine with a 30 minute break and all else is equal. Am I missing something? Oh…and… Read more »

One thing that we are missing here is we are assuming you can get a high power delivery to this part route truck stop.
If it’s 1.6MW per charger, and a stop would need multiple of these, then your looking at running a huge power line to this location. This station is like a major new factory for power usage, and setting up a line would not be cheap or likely easy, you can’t just hook onto the existing pole for this power demand. You may have to increase the line and substation capacity.

I would really expect them to put in some batteries to help with the peak power demand but I just don’t see how they can do that and sell power at a loss and make it a viable business.

Just like the city EVs that so many here like to poopoo they fill a need and help progress things are likely a very reasonable cost. Just because the Tesla semi isn’t going to work for some people doesn’t mean that’s a bad thing.

I’m curious how they are going to sell an extra 400kWh of batteries for $300k. Their Powerwalls better drop a lot in price or expand a lot in capacity 🙂

A serial Tesla basher like you obviously doesn’t see (or at least pretends not to see) quite a few things when it comes to Tesla and its vehicles.

For example, you “don’t see” that selling electricity at 7¢/kWh is not a loss, since the national average for industrial power is 6.95¢/kWh, or at least was at last report.

https://www.eia.gov/electricity/monthly/epm_table_grapher.php?t=epmt_5_6_a

Probably a dedicated substation, like many other locations that get electricity at the $0.07 industrial rate.

“If it’s 1.6MW per charger, and a stop would need multiple of these, then your looking at running a huge power line to this location. This station is like a major new factory for power usage, and setting up a line would not be cheap or likely easy… Ah, finally someone considers the real-world situation of setting up a multi-Megacharger station! Sure, but utilities have to deal with new factory installations in industrial areas all the time. Why do so many people write as if somehow this will be something that’s not done every day by electric utilities, or as if this is an engineering challenge? The only real issue is whether the trucking company or Tesla will be paying for the install. My guess is that the trucking company will pay for most or all of the install. With the prices Tesla is citing for its Semi Trucks, and the at-cost fee of 7¢/kWh for industrial power supply, there can’t be a lot of profit margin there for Tesla to absorb those costs themselves. BTW — I think 1.6 MW is an overestimate. Other estimates I’ve seen, including my own, are ~1.2 MW per Megacharger. Likely not an important… Read more »
I’m a huge fan of everything EV! I think over long period of time every truck stop will have EV charging but it’s going to take a very long time. Yes, the other item missing in the discussion that’s makes the EV long haul truck thing hard. Typically I have loads run from 800 to 1,400 miles, most have window for delivery that starts in morning, so because of burdensome DOT rules I typically stop the night before my delivery within one hour of my delivery . This might be rest area , truck stop, industrial park with staging, etc . It’s truly random relative to the load. This makes it so in the morning, less than hour to get there, couple hours to get unloaded, then whatever deadhead to pu another load then finally get rolling again and still have hours to drive This is where the 500 mile range 14 hour DOT day makes it hard to also fit in charging time. It’s the randomness of where you stop for the night. There is no consistency because almost every load is different. As much as Nikola gets bashed on this sight, that 1,300 mile range they claim will… Read more »

Thanks again for more real world examples that show long haul (LH) trucking is very complex with numerous issues and that a few “strategically placed” mega-chargers won’t solve most of them.

I still think LH will be the domain of fuel cell tech. It has the range for centralized fuel (truck) stops to remain viable. Over the upcoming years, these businesses can add more and more hydrogen pumping capacity as diesel demand subsides.

BEV trucking should dominate short haul routes.

Your type of long haul trucking, pick a load at A and drop it at B, pick a load at C and drop it at D, pick a load at E etc., is absolutely the worst case scenario for conversion to electric driving. It is very unlikely you can switch in 2019. The infrastructure you need will not bebuild. After a few years you will get competition when looking for your C to D load. When a competitor has an electric semi available for that route, he can undercut you by over 20% and still make more profit. That will be the time you will have to change to an electric (or other competitive) semi and leaf the routes without charging infrastructure to others, or ask extra money for them. You and your colleagues will become masters in finding desolate places with CHAdeMO chargers that are unused at night. Connect your sleeping period to a 30kW-50kW DCFC and you are good to start the next day fully charged. You just need a 10-15 minute bathroom break at a MegaCharger the next day. The battery capacity you need for fridge, cooking, heating and airco in your sleeper cabin is probably less… Read more »
MaartenV-nl said: “Your type of long haul trucking, pick a load at A and drop it at B, pick a load at C and drop it at D, pick a load at E etc., is absolutely the worst case scenario for conversion to electric driving.” Well said. Long-distance BEV trucking isn’t going to fit every economic case, not this early in the EV revolution when battery tech and on-the-road charging locations are so limited. As you say, Bunny’s case is likely the worst fit to BEV freight trucking. “You and your colleagues will become masters in finding desolate places with CHAdeMO chargers that are unused at night. Connect your sleeping period to a 30kW-50kW DCFC and you are good to start the next day fully charged. You just need a 10-15 minute bathroom break at a MegaCharger the next day.” That seems extremely unlikely. Depending on relatively low-powered DCFC public chargers will leave independent truckers paying exorbitant charging fees, and leave them stranded for hours waiting on a charge. A more reasonable scenario would be for small trucking fleets and independent truckers to form co-ops to build BEV truck stops for their use, just as in the past, American farmers… Read more »

A small nitpick, if truckers like Bunny spent their mandatory 10 hour resting period connected to a low capacity DCFC, they don’t need to spent time at another charger.

The pricing should of course be negotiated, but at the moment a lot of them are free complementary chargers.

I expect that in the future the places were truckers spent the night will have one of these DCFC per truck parking place, but that is 10 years or more in the future.

Creating Co-ops to negotiate the prices for electricity and build truck-stops is of course a perfect idea.

“A small nitpick, if truckers like Bunny spent their mandatory 10 hour resting period connected to a low capacity DCFC, they don’t need to spent time at another charger.” Okay, you’re right, I hadn’t done the math. Mea culpa. If the truck needs 250 kWh, a 40 kW charger can do that in 6.25 hours. So the trucker “only” has to worry about availability, and whether or not the charger is working, and the price. Oh, also — at least according to one post on the Tesla Motors Club forum, which might well be biased — “There’s a ton of variation out there. Some are 50kW and work great, some top out at 20kW or shut down due to thermal overload because the designers thought they’d only be charging LEAFs or whatever.” * * * * * MaartenV-nl said: “The pricing should of course be negotiated, but at the moment a lot of them are free complementary chargers.” I can’t imagine anything that would cause free chargers to become pay-per-use chargers faster than large BEV trucks sitting at them for hours a night, sucking up hundreds of kWh of electricity! I’d love to see an actual use case study done,… Read more »
Thanks again for giving us the benefit of your experience as a trucker, Bunny! I wish we had more like you contributing to discussions here. Certainly the need for Tesla Semi Trucks to overnight only where Megachargers are located, is going to put severe limits on the usability of the trucks for long-distance hauling. It may make sense for trucking fleets to install Megachargers to service their regular routes. But from what you’re writing, I guess your company doesn’t do regular routes very often if at all. And realistically, we have to face the fact that BEV semi tractors will be less flexible than diesel semi tractors for some years. If there is any delay in a truck getting to where it’s supposed to be going, then it may have to spend its lunch break or overnight where there isn’t any Megacharger to be found, which will really throw a monkey wrench into the schedule. Things like that would really give a fleet scheduler headaches, and may require sending a diesel semi tractor to take the load because the BEV semi tractor doesn’t have enough “juice” to finish the trip. I can’t agree with your opinion on hydrogen-powered trucks like… Read more »

I could see a EV with a tiny engine , kind of like a 18 wheeler version of GM voltec being successful for the years of transition it will take for long haul trucking, only because the DOT hours of service rules are pretty restrictive for maximum productivity.

Again short term like 5 , 10 years, then all EV after that

That would be a series hybrid like the Nissan ePower. Build into the Tesla 300miles semi it might make a very good long haul rig.
Your routing software would know when you need to use it and for how long.

That is, in essence, how a fuel cell operates: it feeds a battery a steady flow of electricity while the vehicle operates as an EV from pedal to the wheels.

It has the advantage of fast fill and long(er) range than a BEV which would mean fewer changes to driving operations but with significant issues of cost/efficiency and complexity.

I wonder about the route across the Rocky Mountains. Calgary-Vancouver. A lot of steep inclines where current semis crawl, and then all the downhill where they lose all the hard-earned potential energy. As well, a lot of the driving is in national parks with 56 mph limit. Add the high altitude of 3000 to 6000 feet for a good part of the route, with lower air-density. Together, this should reduce aerodynamic drag, improving EV range. Altitude should make ICE less efficient as well. EVs and the new Tesla should do really well in this scenario, right? I would be interested to hear a trucker’s perspective, Bunny?

I agree, I can think of many spots in the US too that it’s going to be hilarious watching something like A Tesla big truck just run away from everyone on grades, but see Tesla drivers getting left lane violations from not wanting to be stuck behind everyone else LOL

Well since so many problems are being pointed out – Tesla should just give up. Because all other innovations have always worked perfectly.

Tesla was the inventor of AC vs Edison’s DC and had to convince many naysayers also.

You seem to be confusing the reality that Tesla’s Semi Truck won’t, at present, work for every trucker, with an assertion that it won’t work for any trucker. Nobody but the hardcore Tesla bashers are trying to argue that position.

In a disruptive tech revolution, the new tech doesn’t replace the old tech all at once. It’s a gradual process. That’s how things work in the real world.

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/c/c4/Disruptivetechnology.png/450px-Disruptivetechnology.png

What is the price of the big truck battery?

If you look at the increment in price between the long range truck and the cost, the difference is ($180,000 – $150,000) / (500 – 300) miles = $150 per mile for a truck.

This means the big battery should retail for about $75,000. Some estimate it will have 900kwh to 1000 kWh, so that gives us a price of $75 to $83 per kWh.

My conclusions: Within 2 years, Tesla will break through what analysts call the magic EV “inflection point” of $100/kWh, where cars and trucks become CHEAPER to buy than their gas equivalents. (They are already cheaper to fuel). Another conclusion: Tesla believes that within 2 years, they will perfect a new battery chemistry that is far cheaper than the one used today, at no additional weight.

An unknown on this though, what do you think a truck stop will charge for charging? That’s really an unknown at this point for long haul

The companies with charging at their terminals like UPS and Walmart are going to have much lower cost than retail at

TA’s Flying J’s Pilots Loves where long haul would have to buy. They won’t give up their diesel profits lightly I would think.

Will be interesting!

That isn’t and won’t be the way Tesla does things. Look at their supercharger cafe and apparently soon-coming drive-in theater. Someone in California, right this month, is probably designing several different kinds of megacharger stops. There will probably be different charge rates. If you are on a mandated 10-hour stop and find yourself at such a long-stop location, you probably park in back. The short stops are probably a cafe-style destination.

Flying J and the like focus on all kinds of semi truck servicing. At most, with a Tesla Semi you’re going to need a tire installation, and I will bet there’s a robot being designed for that. Yes, more advanced repairs will exist, such as suspension parts, but expect your brakes to go half the life of your vehicle due to regen.

Imagine a place where you sleep in cab and can’t smell a whiff of diesel and everything is quiet, save the crunch of gravel.

“Imagine a place where you sleep in cab and can’t smell a whiff of diesel and everything is quiet, save the crunch of gravel.”

You forgot about all the additional diesel generators powering scores of refrigerated trailers also running for “X” at these sprawling truck stops.

Edit: “X” hours

And….., what’s to stop all those stinky, polluting diesel generators from being phased out for clean electric power supplies to run the refrigeration units?

just more economics driving up the price of the delivered product (produce usually).

It’s going to be really interesting to see the transition. Gonna need a whole bunch of mega chargers Again the numbers I’ll use are what I’m used to in my own driving I log approx 9,000 to 9,500 miles a month . Use 1,400-1,500 gallons a fuel to do that, average fueling time about 15 minutes ( unless it’s hazmat or a state like Massachusetts)for around 100 gallons so do that roughly 15 times a month If was EV with 30 minute charging time every 400 miles would take access to mega charger hmmm 23 times? 23 x 30 minutes 11.5 hours a month charging time. Not sure what DOT rules are on charging an EV truck if you have to log it. For sure not going to take 10hr break at charger so your 10 hour break with no truck movement would become 10 1/2 hour break. Typical truck stop with 100 parking spaces typically has 6 fuel isles 200 spaces around 12 fuel isle so guessing you’d need almost 3 times as many mega chargers than fuel isles based on need of frequency and time spent . That’s a lot of real estate ! If Tesla cranked out… Read more »
“Not sure what DOT rules are on charging an EV truck if you have to log it. For sure not going to take 10hr break at charger so your 10 hour break with no truck movement would become 10 1/2 hour break.” Tesla Autopilot already has “summon” enabled, and also the ability for Tesla cars to (not yet very reliably) recognize and pull into an empty parking space. That could certainly be enabled for the Tesla Semi Trucks, to move its Semi Truck into and out of charging stalls as needed, but then Tesla would also have to automate plugging and unplugging the truck from the charger. Wireless charging would at least in theory make things easier, but I’m not sure about the engineering of pumping that much power thru a wireless charger. Concerns have been expressed about the safety of that much RF radiation leaking out, but possibly there’s a way to shield that. If Tesla stubbornly sticks to its “no wireless charging” policy, then they’ll have to figure out some practical way of installing a robotic charging hookup at every Megacharger, which I think would be rather expensive. Alternatively, every Megacharger station would need to have an attendant… Read more »

It’s almost certainly going to be quite a few years before we see the equivalent of a Flying J’s truck stop for BEV trucks. That’s not going to happen until BEV heavy trucks are commonplace enough to create sufficient demand to support such truck stops.

Fortunately for those considering buying Tesla Semi Trucks, Tesla is planning on selling electricity from its Megachargers at cost. A commercial BEV truck stop obviously will be selling at a profit. But who knows how much profit, and now soon competition will bring that profit margin down?

Again, though, the economics of the situation favor large trucking fleets, and will leave smaller fleets and independent truckers at a disadvantage.

GO TESLA GO DESTROY DIRTY GAS GUZZLERS AND DIESELS LOL CONNECT THE DOTS ON CLEAN AIR WAKE UP FOLKS

For me as a next gen fast charge infrastructure proponent it’ll be really interesting to see how fast Tesla roles out its Megacharger network. At their track record it wouldn’t surprise me that by 2022 here in the U.S. they’ll have as much or more megawatt capacity with their Megachargers than all the HPFC (150+ kW) infrastructure put together!! We’ll see.

Quoting from the article: “Tesla’s Megacharger would need to have a tremendous power output of 1.6 MW, or thirteen times the power level of a standard Supercharger to be able to replenish 400 miles of battery range in 30 minutes. This, of course, is based on the assumption that the Tesla Semi will consume 2 kWh of energy per mile which in reality will probably be less, as Tesla notes.” Other estimates, including my own, put the Megacharger power at ~1.2 MW, not 1.6 MW. “We honestly don’t think it’s likely we’ll see these 1.6 MW chargers on trucking routes across the U.S. It’s just not feasible to support such a network.” While I don’t expect to see a widespread Megacharger network like the current Supercharger network, because I don’t think the economics would work for that, I certainly do expect those trucking companies which intend to use Tesla Semi Trucks for more than just local routes, to install Megachargers along those routes as necessary to support the trucks. “This probably won’t put to rest Daseke’s concern, as it seems they are more into long-haul trucking, but for more regional routes, Megachargers here and there should suffice.” Nobody should expect… Read more »

It is not often I disagree with you.

We only need 10,000 truckers like Bunny (and that is not a lot) roaming the highways to need as much MegaChargers as we have now SuperChargers along the highways. The will charge nearly twice a day on average. Add to that all the non-long haul that need a charge, and the MegaChargers will be busy. Probably not much 50 stall stations, but plenty of 2-4 stall stations on routes where there are now no SuperChargers.

When you look at Supercharger dot info, discount all the local charging stations for this comparison.

I’m willing to be convinced I’m wrong on that subject, if you can make an economic case. But keep in mind that Tesla is going to limit installation of its Megachargers to industrial areas where it can get that advantageous industrial rate for electricity; a rate with a national average (at last report) of only 6.95¢/kWh, barely under the 7¢/kWh rate Tesla is advertising. Also, the high-power Megacharger hookups are going to be more expensive to install than Superchargers. That much power delivered to a Megacharger station is often going to require the local electric utility to install new high-power lines, and somebody is gonna have to pay for that. I just don’t see the economic case for Tesla paying for that cost in advance, just to entice some independent truckers to buy its trucks. Keep in mind that Tesla started building its Supercharger network only after it started selling the Model S… not before. The reverse has to be the case with the Tesla Semi Truck, which in nearly all cases won’t be charged at home! Since Tesla will have to install Megachargers in advance of selling its Semi Trucks to any given customer, it makes sense for Tesla… Read more »
If I were a trucking firm I’d need some more firm information. Electric truck recharging CAN be reliably done, the question is – is Tesla guaranteeing the 7 cent/kwh rate? If so, I’d think that would be considered a PLUS by the truck owners. Points that would have to be explained to me: 1). (Most Important) What is the carrying capacity of the vehicle.? 2). What is the warranty on the vehicle- what does it and what does not it cover, and what is the extent of Tesla’s and the owner’s responsibility? As far as the charging itself – Teslas historically have had some issues here, but with the Model 3 there should be no trouble from the equipment I have seen. But I’ve to date not seen any detail or anything charging related other that supposedly the subsidized price (7 cents/kwh – is that input or output?), nor any charging configuration, nor the stoutness of the equipment. But lets say those issues are satisfactorilly ironed out…… I could see large truck stops with docking for 4 – 20 tesla semis probably not being out of the question…. Since this is a fast-charging scenario there may only be 3-12 trucks… Read more »

Your questions are justified.

The first is easy, the same as diesel with a day-cab as shown at the reveal (according to Tesla and testing by prospects). For a sleeper it will be better (my opinion). The legacy truck makers waste 10k pounds on the sleeper extension. No way Tesla is going to be this wasteful. Any RV maker can build a better sleeper extension within a 2,000 pounds envelope.

The details of warranty and responsibility is something for lawyers and consultants from trade groups, not really fit for the comments section of a blog.

Where the idea that the $0.07kW price is in any way subsidized is coming from is a mystery to me. It is just the above the average price for industrial electricity buyers. And Tesla is not only a car company, but also an energy company. They expect a (small) profit on that price. And that price should also cover the cost of the MegaChargers, Tesla is no charity.

Any trucking firm who is seriously interested can have a nice chat with a Tesla representative about these points. Unlike unlucky us who need to go by what is publicly available.

This is because you are not familiar with Electricity sales in the U.S.

No, I’d say it’s because he knows more about the subject than you do. You don’t seem to be aware that there is a large difference in price between residential and industrial rates for electricity. You clearly don’t know that 7¢/kWh is higher than the national average of (at last report) 6.95¢/kWh for industrial power hookups.

https://www.eia.gov/electricity/monthly/epm_table_grapher.php?t=epmt_5_6_a

Yeah I should leave it to the self-styled ‘2nd law of thermodynamics’ expert, who can’t even quote the ‘law’ correctly.

What the average price is has nothing to do with what costs such charging will incur.

The actual price is not one price but made up of several disparate charges totally foreign to a home electric bill.

Having said that, I tire of arguing with a moron.

Bill Howland continued to expose his cluelessness on various subjects: “Yeah I should leave it to the self-styled ‘2nd law of thermodynamics’ expert, who can’t even quote the ‘law’ correctly.” Quoting from Wikipedia: The second law of thermodynamics may be expressed in many specific ways, the most prominent classical statements being the statement by Rudolf Clausius (1854), the statement by Lord Kelvin (1851), and the statement in axiomatic thermodynamics by Constantin Carathéodory (1909). These statements cast the law in general physical terms citing the impossibility of certain processes. You see, Bill, unlike you, I’m aware that there are various ways to state the Second Law of Thermodynamics. More to the point, stating the laws in terms of formal scientific principles is unlikely to help the average reader understand just why, for example, thermodynamics show that it’s impossible to use compressed hydrogen as an economical fuel for everyday transportation. “What the average price is has nothing to do with what costs such charging will incur.” It certainly has a lot to do with how easy or hard it would be for Tesla to deliver at that price. “The actual price is not one price but made up of several disparate charges… Read more »

IN your quote link back to me, I stated:

“…Seeing as Tesla uses 6, 9 or 12 single phase 10kw units in the north american SC bays, (120 kw max), there is no requirement for 3 phase power. In any event, any home or beach can have 3 phase loads with a phase converter.”

Tell me how there is the slightest inaccuracy with either sentence. Both stand as 100% accurate alone.

Your poor reading comprehension skills assume I have said something which I have never stated.

Ok Pushi here’s the chance to prove you’re not a creep..

You just said “…thermodynamics show that it’s impossible to use compressed hydrogen as an economical fuel for everyday transportation.”

I’m not a big advocate of it, but people like zzzzzzzz are, so please prove to him that, since the head of the California Air Resorces Board, uses personally a Hydrogen powered Honda Clarity for ‘Everyday Transportation’, exactly why it is impossible for her to do exactly what she is doing.

News flash: Pushi says its IMPOSSIBLE, therefore everything Toyota, GM, Kia, and Honda are doing violate physical principles.

Tell me when you’ve convinced them all.

Pushi – you’re not even consistent with your own idiocy. Your HERO over at ‘Seeking Alpha’ stated in his 6 page article that it was his expert opinion that the subsidized 7 cent/ kwh price was is his opinion introductory.

The fact that he stated THAT means he at least has the beginnings of understanding how things work.

But your memory can’t remember 24 hours, unless you have zero comprehension.

Poor Bill. He can’t win any arguments, so he’s reduced to sniping and desperate attempts at point-scoring.

Sad.

You’re just a 63 year old Snot-Nosed Kindergartner who doesn’t realize how stupid you are making yourself look. Your only in terest in EV’s is so that you can make yourself look important, and bask in the reflected glory of them, whereas most here have an interest in them since they own them or are prospective buyers, putting their own money at risk, something which will never apply to you since wisely Kansas doesn’t let you Legally drive ANY motor vehicle. You never discuss the facts at hand since your only intent is to throw snow balls at others. Well, I tire of this and throw some back. You substitute basic knowledge with ‘game points’ as a form of mental masturbation, probably because you’re too unfit to do the other kind. I’m sorry that more and more here are finally realizing this. Thankfully, this is the only place you are allowed to defecate. Fanciful definitions of Thermodynamic Laws are just that: Fanciful. It is of no matter that blowhards try to make strained analogies to other ‘walks of life’ when thermodynamics is a strictly scientific/technical pursuit. I’m so sorry that Wikipedia doesn’t teach you how to analyze an ‘industrial power… Read more »

Enough time has elapsed for you to respond, seeing as you took more than an 8 1/2 x 11 sheet of paper to respond elsewhere to a simple point.

Anyone reading here realizes I STAND BEHIND what I say, whereas you – when someone comes up with a REALITY BASED comment rather than your fairy tales, that clearly show your idiotic verbal phlem, you just go stone silent hoping no-one will ever remember you typed it. Typical Kindergartner response.

I think the Idleaire locations would be good start for truck EV charging, that’s 32 truckstop locations in metropolitan dense areas that the parking spots already exist and mostly not used, convert a few spots at the ends

It seems fair and reasonable that there is a person (or department) at each company with a fleet of trucks, that knows the distance their trucks must travel between points on this routes.

It also seems fair and reasonable that this department (or person) could determine that they need the ability to travel exceeds the range of the Tesla Semi.

After all, it doesn’t have a sleeper cab does it? Seems to me that’s Elon’s subtle way of saying that it’s not currently intended for muli-day routes.
Out and back in one day seems to be the design parameter. If that’s not your route, then the current design of the Tesla Semi isn’t for your company.

This is actually good for Tesla and EVs as a whole.
Had the entire trucking industry said that they were going to switch to EVs, it would cause utter chaos in the industries.
The best thing that needs to happen is for EVs trucks to be accepted over a 3-4 year period.

Note that it will also take time for chargers to be installed around western nations.