NCM 811: The Future Of Electric Car Batteries?

NOV 14 2018 BY VANJA KLJAIC 40

LG Chem readies for NCM 811 pouch battery cell production with CATL and Samsung SDI in the race too.

The South Korean LG Chem battery company – part of the larger LG conglomerate, one of the most important tech companies in the world – is getting ready for the upcoming new high energy density NCM 811 battery cells.

The NCM 811 battery cells are important for both LG and the automotive industry. They offer better energy density, allowing carmakers to utilize either fewer batteries in a vehicle with seemingly similar range, but with a lot less weight, or to enhance the range for some of their vehicles within the same volume and weight footprint. Furthermore, the NCM 811 battery cells could also drop the kWh cost to 100€, making them applicable to entry-level compact electric cars that will finally produce a decent range.

Advances in battery technology will improve range, weight and costs by Volkswagen

Some of the vehicles expected to get the new LG Chem NCM 811 battery cells include the likes of the Hyundai Kona EV, Nissan Leaf E-Plus, Hyundai IONIQ Electric, the second generation Renault Zoe, Opel Corsa EV, Peugeot 208 EV, and finally, the Volkswagen ID, expected to replace the e-Golf somewhere in late 2019. For the most part, the latter is the most important vehicle to receive these battery cells, pushing one of the world’s biggest carmakers into the electric age.

The NCM 811 could allow manufacturers like Volkswagen to produce electric vehicles with the same competitive price as their ICE (Internal Combustion Engine) counterparts. This even pushed VW to not release the next generation Golf 8 with an electric powertrain, instead of opting in for a completely redone successor – the ID – to hit the world in 2019, featuring the MEB platform.

LG Chem has seemingly been dragging its heels in regards to putting NCM 811 into production, which means that both Samsung SDI and CATL are close to launching NCM 811 too.

Yes, our source listed below is old. But new information indicates now that NCM 811 is literally right around the corner. But as mentioned above, the race is on. There’s a chance the LG Chem won’t be first now and that’s why several recent tie-ups between automakers and battery producers have swayed the way of CATL, who it seems may be leading this charged up race.

Source: Push EVs

Categories: Battery Tech, Volkswagen

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40 Comments on "NCM 811: The Future Of Electric Car Batteries?"

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Bring it on….

(⌐■_■) Trollnonymous

Where the test vehicle data to back these claims?

Again, for ten years, ie since 2008 when the Roadster launched, all we hear is we will, we shall, we will overtake…Blah blah blah I say.

There’s alway an eeyore coming out of the stable. 😳😳

[reaches over, pulls a quarter out of your ear]

It’s right here!!!

(⌐■_■) Trollnonymous

LMAO

??? This is just Wh/Kg results. Nothing to do with specific vehicle range.

(⌐■_■) Trollnonymous

“They offer better energy density, allowing carmakers to utilize either fewer batteries in a vehicle with seemingly similar range, but with a lot less weight”

Sounds like vehicle range to me.

Sounds like vague weasel words.

It’s in a series of test reports stored on a secured engineering department network folder. Just like all the other validation test data for any other car for the last 30 years.

Just look at the BMW i3, it now offers twice the battery capacity in the same volume and with only 20% more weight.

Well, that’s easy when you start with a tiny capacity to start with… You can have a crappy density compared to the markets best, and then opt for better existing batteries and optimize the space better.

Do Not Read Between The Lines

According to Betteridge’s Law Of Headlines, it’s not going to work.

VW plans to start with NMC 622 in 2020 and will switch to NMC 811 “after 2020” according to Handelsblatt.
Likely because NCM 811 ramp up will take some time.
LG Chem is going to be their biggest supplier.

A chemistry change shouldn’t take that long. It should just replace 622 immediately, unless testing isn’t complete.

Exactly! If NMC811 works, there is absolutely no need to produce 622 for 2 years.

Tesla’s been using 811 since 2017. What’s the hold up?

Tesla uses NCA, not NMC.

Could they set up a chart showing how this would compare ageist a lead acid battery and a nickle battery and classic lithium in denesty if say I wanted a battery that was 6 inches wide by six inches tall and six inches wide?

Tesla already supersedes 811 tech…
“Cells used in Model 3 are the highest energy density cells used in any electric vehicle. We have achieved this by significantly reducing cobalt content per battery pack while increasing nickel content and still maintaining superior thermal stability. The cobalt content of our Nickel-Cobalt-Aluminum cathode chemistry is already lower than next-generation cathodes that will be made by other cell producers with a Nickel-Manganese-Cobalt ratio of 8:1:1,” Tesla wrote in its Q1 2018 update letter.

It’s funny that a traditional auto manufacture can make news by just making plans to eventually use tech that Tesla has had in production for over a year.

You’re right that Tesla/Panasonic came up with 811 tech first, but this part may be off — “already lower than next-generation cathodes.”

If the next-generation cathodes are going to have the same ratio of 8:1:1, then how is Tesla’s cells going to have a lower cobalt content than next-gen cells from other manufacturers?

Tesla doesn’t use NMC cells in their vehicles. (Only in the stationary storage products.) It’s a different chemistry (NCA), with different ratios. What Tesla said is that their current NCA cells have less cobalt contents than the upcoming NMC 811.

This is the kind of article that should appear on this website – not “Which Model S Would Superman Drive?”.

(⌐■_■) Trollnonymous

You REALLY didn’t like that article didn’t you………LMAO
I didn’t even bother clicking on it.

The tech is here. Too many car co’s are making chumps out of their customers.

“Yes, our source listed below is old. But new information indicates now that NCM 811 is literally right around the corner.” — and what’s the source for *that* information?

They have been saying this for more than one year:

President of LG Chem’s battery business, Lee Ung Beom, just announced that:

“We will first produce the (NCM 811 battery), and you can see it next year”. -September 8, 2017

Again, another VW apologist “explains” to us why the “Boy Cried Wolfsburg” brigade failed to increase the e-Golf’s range to circa 180 miles 3 years ago post-Dieselgate.
Yeah, right… it was ‘cos new batteries were,um,er, just around the corner you see. And a whole new replacement for the e-Golf was just around the very same VERY long corner. No – really, honestly, truly – vwould VW lie to you?! Journalists would never let them get away with it !
Ich lach mich tot, jungs.

And wassup with the risibly short-range e-UP ? On second thoughts – who cares..
Paul G

vw are liars

I wish the caption didn’t cover up the bottom of the picture.

Fixed. Thank you.

Would this change the C rates? If yes, in what way?
On another website I see that CATL an LG Chem already announced that the NMC 811 will enter production as soon as next year.

It will likely not significantly change C rates, since there is an energy density improvement, not a power density improvement (i.e. electrode conductivity).

I don’t know about the rest of you, but I taking my savings and investing in EEStor. I saw on the internet they are close to commercializing their super-duper capacitor next year!

high risk investment. wouldn’t use my savings, just spare money

Do Not Read Between The Lines

Whoosh. 😉

It is interesting how often a sarcastic comment is believed to be serious… IO, you really need to put a Sarc tag on that comment.
I mean, EEStor?
The young pups don’t understand the history behind your snark.

This really needed the /s.

Younger folks don’t even know EEStor.

However, the comment doesn’t really make sense in connection to NCM811.

This is a well-known development and practically every first-rate battery mfg is working on it. Probably even Tesla (Powerwall has NCM in it, probably NCM533 which could bear the 811 upgrade).

” The cobalt content of our Nickel-Cobalt-Aluminum cathode chemistry is already lower than next-generation cathodes that will be made by other cell producers with a Nickel-Manganese-Cobalt ratio of 8:1:1. As a result, even with its battery, the gross weight of Model 3 is on par with its gasoline-powered counterparts. ” see page 2 – Q1, 2018
http://ir.tesla.com/static-files/1b240f1e-b519-4b40-b14b-fea44698c3af