In May, Toyota Prius Prime Sales In Japan Went Through The Roof

4 months ago by Mark Kane 142

Toyota Prius Plug-In (aka Prime) sales in Japan – May 2017

Toyota Prius Plug-In Hybrid (AKA the Prius Prime in U.S.) set a new sales record last month in Japan, obliterating all previous “best efforts” by other OEMs.

Toyota Prius Prime

Toyota Prius Prime

New registrations surged to 5,369, which was a third of the total Prius family sales.

Japanese sources reports that higher incentives (from May) influenced the results (after they sank April).

Past just the Japanese number itself, the main takeaway we get from the result is Toyota’s sheer ability to produce and deliver its popular model, and so quickly after its introduction.

For May 2017, we currently have a running total of 7,501 copies sold for the month globally (not all numbers are in – but pretty much all, at least when it comes to areas where Prius PHV is sold) .

Since the model’s introduction in February, Toyota has delivered 12,134 copies of the plug-in Prius in just Japan.

In the US in May, Toyota sold almost every copy it could ship, noting 1,908 sales (with an average ‘days on lot’ inventory level of just ~9 days), giving the Prius Prime the “top selling” plug-in crown for the second consecutive month in America.

Tags: , , , ,

142 responses to "In May, Toyota Prius Prime Sales In Japan Went Through The Roof"

  1. sven ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ says:

    I’m been seeing a good number of Prius Primes in NYC.

  2. mx says:

    LOL. The Worse Plugin Since the CMAX.
    What if they could get the BMW i3 REX?

    1. mx says:

      Actually, is it can’t regen it’s battery it could be the worse of all time.

      1. Assaf says:

        1. Who the H told you “it can’t regen”? That would be totally weird given that Toyota’s entire hybrid line dating 20 years back, is based on regen

        2. You might have failed to notice that the i3 REx costs about 2x as much as the Prime after incentives.

        3. In 2017 terms it’s definitely a base-level PHEV, but 25 miles EPA are equal to the median US-metro commute distance, and there are other PHEVs besides Ford’s with even shorter range (Audi comes to mind). The Prime also sports the highest MPGe among all PHEVs sold in the US. So certainly not the worst. If you’re trying to be objective, that is.

        1. mx says:

          It can’t regen the LI battery, it can only regen the Hybrid battery. It’s a two battery system, a real Rube Goldberg design.
          The PRIME is Toyota on the cheap, with no engineering talent.

          Yes, the List is more, but compare Lease to Lease. The i3 can be Leased cheaper than the Prime Advanced, and a vastly better driving experience, speed, comfort, materials.

          The Toyota Advanced to buy is like $700 a month payments for 6 years. This is the perfect example of leasing is better than buying and being tied down to this poor design for that long.

          1. john1701a says:

            >> It can’t regen the LI battery, it can only regen the Hybrid battery. It’s a two battery system…

            It’s hard to believe anyone would attempt to spread such extreme misinformation. Where did you get this belief?

            There is one battery-pack. A large portion of it is dedicated to EV driving. It’s what gets recharged when you plug in.

            The other usable portion is for HV driving. If you drive down a mountain or turn on charge-mode, the EV portion is replenished.

            6 weeks ago, I took a trip to Wyoming from Minnesota in my Prime. One stop along the way was Mt. Rushmore in South Dakota. The trip down from it resulted on about 10 miles of regen.

            Stop spreading that clearly incorrect information about Prime.

            1. BenG says:

              Yeah, gross, huh?

              I’m not sure where the heck mx is pulling this mis-information from, but I think it’s someplace the sun don’t shine.

              1. mx says:

                Sorry. It’s a TWO Battery System.
                Drive it.

                1. BenG says:

                  Give us a source or stop spreading this BS.

                  1. Terawatt says:

                    So should you.

                    To claim it’s “one pack” and then say a portion of it is for EV and another for HV is to be obviously confused about, or consciously abusing, the term “battery pack”. It doesn’t necessarily follow only the HV portion can be charged by regen, but that’s certainly the logical thing to do. With the possible exception of coming down a mountain there’s just no need for a bigger buffer to store the recuperated energy.

                    But really, both sides would do well to offer some credible source if they have one.

                    1. john1701a says:

                      It’s a single physical battery-pack. There has been a collection of photos showing its design & layout. Using the software-specified HV threshold to raise doubt is a blatant effort to mislead, especially after 5 years of real-world data clearly confirming no separation beyond just how it is labeled.

                      Simply look up “stacking” for proof. That’s how gen-1 owners used regen to exceed the HV threshold for more EV without plugging in when in flat areas.

                      Don’t overlook the reason why that doubt was raised.

                    2. BenG says:

                      Google is your friend if you are interested in the Prime’s battery pack. It’s not hard to use. You will find that the Prime has a 8.8 kwh battery that can be charged by plug or by regeneration. There is no separate ‘Li-ion’ and ‘hybrid’ battery: they are one and the same. When the 8.8 kwh battery pack is drained below a certain threshold then the car enters hybrid mode and the engine will come on to supply power as necessary.

                      https://www.google.com/search?q=prius+prime+battery

                      I have no idea what mx’s claim is based on, that there is a “hybrid” battery separate from the 8.8 kwh Li-ion battery is just a figment of his imagination.

                  2. mx says:

                    Prove me wrong.
                    I went to the dealership.
                    The LI battery was discharged to Zero.
                    But, the hybrid battery continued to function as normal.

                    1. john1701a says:

                      Your claim of “It can’t regen the LI battery, it can only regen the Hybrid battery.” is an effort to mislead.

                      THERE IS ONLY 1 BATTERY!

                      That entire pack, all 8.8 kWh of capacity, can be regenerated.

                    2. BenG says:

                      The Li-ion battery wasn’t drained to zero, it was just drained below the threshold where the car could operate on battery-only, so the car entered hybrid mode and displayed zero electric range left. Just like happens on any plug-in hybrid when the you use up your electric only range

                      You’ve had testimony from a Prime owner that he regenerated 10 miles of electric-only range coming down a mountain. Research a little about the Prime’s design and you will find that the traction battery is a single 8.8 kwh Li-ion pack: there is no additional “hybrid” battery.

          2. Davek says:

            This regen thing is actually true… of the ORIGINAL Prius Plug-in. The one that Toyota deliberately did a bad job on just to show the world “see? Plug-in cars are $#it”. And people still bought it.

            The new version, called the Prime in the States, only has one battery, which can regen til the cow come home.

            1. john1701a says:

              The prototype in 2010 had an add-on pack for the sake of testing the rest of the system. It was only a mule. Everyone knew that the production model would only have one.

              In 2012, that production model did indeed only have one.

            2. Pushmi-Pullyu says:

              Davek said:

              “This regen thing is actually true… of the ORIGINAL Prius Plug-in.”

              I don’t know about the regen vs. no-regen situation, but as I recall the prior generation Prius Plug-in did physically have two battery packs, or at least descriptions of the car read that way.

              So I’m guessing that’s the source of this misinformation.

          3. bogdan says:

            2 battery system?
            Where do you get you disinformation from?

      2. BenG says:

        BS alert!

        1. Terawatt says:

          Now you’re saying that the alert is BS! Make up your mind.

          What matters is this: Toyota is an enemy of the public.

          1. BenG says:

            Toyota is a mega-corporation that operates in the interest of its shareholders. That doesn’t make it evil, or good.

            They generally sell products that are a reasonable value, and they were open-minded enough to pioneer the hybrid-electric vehicle, which, with more than 10 million sold, have done more to save gasoline and avoid pollution than any other car company’s efforts on “green” cars of any sort.

    2. sven ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ says:

      Mx said:
      “The Worse Plugin Since the CMAX.”

      Yet on fuelly.com, owners report that the Prius Prime gives them 76.3 MPGe, which is higher than the average MPGe reported for the Volt.

      With the Prius Prime’s superior MPG rating over the Volt when driving in ICE mode, maybe Toyota found the battery-size/MSRP sweet spot for an average driver. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

      http://www.fuelly.com/car/toyota/prius_prime

      http://www.fuelly.com/car/chevrolet/volt

      1. sven ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ says:

        BTW, the highest MPGe reported on fuelly.com for the Ford C-Max Energy was a paltry 55.7 MPGe.

        http://www.fuelly.com/car/ford/c-max?engineconfig_id=&bodytype_id=&submodel_id=1873

      2. john1701a says:

        239 MPG is my Prime average for June so far. That’s about 1,900 miles of driving. I haven’t filled the tank since May 8.

        1. Pushmi-Pullyu says:

          But that’s fake MPG, not real MPG

          The EPA rates the Prius Prime at 54 MPG, which would be impressive if we didn’t know that nearly all of the EPA’s MPG ratings are inflated.

          1. john1701a says:

            I routinely see much higher than 54 when driving without any plug-supplied electricity available.

            The HV system is remarkably efficient.

            1. Kdawg says:

              Weak. I have a commute further than your 10 miles, and I drive to places after work or for lunch, yet I still haven’t bought gas since March. In the last 3 months I’ve used less than 2 gallons.

              (oh and the Volt is actually fun to drive and you don’t have to hypermile)

              1. john1701a says:

                $27,100 MSRP and loaded with safety features.

                1. mx says:

                  The Prime Base is the only smart purchase.

                2. Kdawg says:

                  Toyota Corolla is $10,000 cheaper. Why pay more? There’s nothing compelling about the PP.

                  1. john1701a says:

                    Such desperate efforts to undermine plug-in vehicles…

                    1. ModernMarvelFan says:

                      You have been undermining all other PEV in favor of Prius Prime.

                      Anyone who touts the MPG rating on gas mode of the PHEV is trying to undermine EVs.

                      Yes, I know. You will then tout the efficiency of the Prime in EV mode. But with its slow 0-60mph times of 12 seconds, it is also undermining all other EVs by showing the world that an efficient EV means “slow EV”.

                    2. john1701a says:

                      @ModernMarvelFan

                      Spinning what I said won’t change the fact that I have been promoting affordability, fighting against the image portrayed of all EV choices having to be much more expensive than traditional vehicles.

                      Too bad if you dislike the growing advancement of mainstream specs, rather than pushing faster & further.

                    3. Kdawg says:

                      Sumbuddy doesn’t like their own medwasine.
                      (frowny face)

                  2. BenG says:

                    Why pay more than for a Corolla? So you can plug in? So you get 54 mpg instead of 30 mpg on gas?

                    1. Kdawg says:

                      Ben, you don’t know John. He’s a Toyota troll, and has trolled every other plugin for years. His feelings got hurt when others started making plugins and Toyota’s hybrid tech was obsolete/left in the dust. He preached against them. Then Toyota finally came out with the PiP, a plugin with just 6 miles of EV range. At that point he said that was the BEST RANGE OUT THERE, and anything more than that was a waste. Toyota didn’t agree, and finally increased the range (but lost a seat, which apparently doesn’t matter now). Now 25 MILES IS THE BEST RANGE EVER. He’s transparent as hell; a Toyota shill for life.

                    2. john1701a says:

                      @BenG

                      Watch future posts. You’ll recognize the pattern after awhile. Sales results infuriate those who push for “faster & further”. They don’t appreciate ordinary consumers who just want a good buy, something well balanced & affordable.

                      It’s unfortunate some spin intent to undermine mainstream offerings. They want standout, not common.

                      Pressure from the upcoming phaseout trigger of tax-credits will only make the trophy-mentality worse too.

                      Hopefully, sales of plug-in vehicles genuinely trying to replace traditional vehicles will overwhelm their rhetoric.

                    3. Kdawg says:

                      No need to look at future posts. We can go back and look at 6 years of your trolling.

                  3. mx says:

                    Do the math, it you keep the car for 10 years, and drive enough you’ll pay for the Prime with the gas savings.

                    1. Kdawg says:

                      Compared to what? A Tesla? A Volt?

          2. I have owned three Hyundai products! All three underperformed in the m.p.g. department. Third Prius and I originally thought Toyota was a cult! Nope, they over achiev in m.p.g. , New prime is a huge surprise always charging to 34 ish miles after charge! Way more then the 25 Toyota advertises.

      3. Viking79 says:

        Fuelly is useless for Volt, half the time I tried to enter data for my Volt it complains that the MPG is too high and it throws it out. It isn’t set up to consider dual fuel usage and the fact I often go more than 1000 miles while using less than 1 gallon of fuel from the tank.

      4. ModernMarvelFan says:

        “Yet on fuelly.com, owners report that the Prius Prime gives them 76.3 MPGe, which is higher than the average MPGe reported for the Volt.”

        BS.

        1. It is MPG, not MPGe.
        2. It all depends on how stupid owners enter it.
        3. 2017 Prime shows 76.3mpg where 2017 Volt shows 84.2 mpg. Even if you average in 2016 Volt, it is still higher than the 76.3mpg figure from Prime.

        You would have average gen 1 Volt to get lower. But Gen1 numbers were impacted by how people mixing MPG and MPGe.

        So, stop your spin.

        1. Terawatt says:

          Exactly. It’s amazing how many morons think that gallons of fuel consumed divided by miles driven says anything whatsoever about efficiency when some unspecified portion – anywhere between 0% to 100% – of those miles were driven using another energy source.

          It’s as if I were to brag I’ve managed to survive eating only a small bunch of grapes this year – the amount of grapes may be true, but if we know nothing about what else I ate it’s not a very meaningful way to measure my energy efficiency!

          The EPA efficiency is MPGe, so all my other foods are expressed in grape equivalents. And it’s also taking charging losses into account, because it measures the energy delivered from the socket. And it’s 55 for the stupid Prime, which is to say a 30% improvement over any old Prius. If they’d made a half decent BEV instead the improvement would be something like 200% instead (from ~42 to ~125 MPGe).

          Toyota is evil.

          1. mx says:

            The other energy source, electric, is typically 90% cheaper than gas. You need to calculate Miles/kWh.

          2. BenG says:

            The Prime gets 133 mpg-e when operating on electricity for the first 25 miles after charging.

            https://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/noframes/38531.shtml

    3. Robert Howd says:

      The BMW costs $20,000 more and has an abysmally short total range. I need a car I can take on trips, and the plug-in Prius does that very well. Forget about that with the BMW.

    4. BenG says:

      There are about a dozen plug-ins worse than the Prime. Lower range and/or unable to operate in EV-only mode under real-world use.

    5. Robert Howd says:

      MX should check out the sales for plug-in hybrids. So far in 2017, the Volt is tops, with 9187 thru May, and the Prius Prime is 2nd, with 8073. The BMW I3, with no breakout for models with the small gas engine, is way down at 2425, below both of the Ford plug-ins (combined 7800 sold). I think people are voting for both value and utility. The BMW I3 is deficient in both.

      1. mx says:

        I put that down to test drives.
        On paper the Prime is appealing, but, not against a real world BMW i3.
        And Lease to Lease you get far more for your money with the i3 REX.

      2. john1701a says:

        Midwest deliveries of Prime began in April and have only been in very limited numbers.

        No supply for January, February, and March provides a misleading impression of true demand.

        Note that there are many still waiting for their orders to be filled. Worldwide rollout is underway. Inventory available for immediate purchase is a long way off.

        1. Kdawg says:

          How … convenient..

  3. Paul Stoller says:

    Now imagine what they could sell with seating for five and a properly sized battery (16kw plus)

    1. Paul Stoller says:

      And it wasn’t ugly as sin.

      1. zzzzzzzzzz says:

        It isn’t ugly in Japan where is its main market and where Prius was top selling car in 2016. It is ugly in the US mostly where people prefer more old-fashioned designs. Typical “American” brand car designs may also look amazingly ugly, too flashy/cheap, weird and out of this time to many people out of North America, not used to such design. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder.

      2. mx says:

        It’s ugly in photo’s, it’s actually not that bad in person.
        Again, Test Drives.

    2. Ray says:

      A Cessna isn’t a Learjet, the prime does a lot of things well. A bigger battery would require a bigger engine to pull it. Even that extra seat changes the calculations.
      I am happy with my prime, over 5000 miles with an average of 87 mpg.

      1. przemo_li says:

        You are technically right.
        Just not four a ratios You state.

        Yes, bigger engine would be needed for 5th seat… because PiP is at the edge of structural strength. Toyota choose too weak a platform for it, and instead of expensive redesign just cut 5th chair. Bigger platform => bigger engine for the same performance.

        1. Ray Tucker Jr. says:

          I will accept technically correct. Price is also a factor in design and material. My Cessna comparison is a case in point, weight, price, design.
          Just don’t fly it into a storm.
          Same is true for the prime, it isn’t for bad roads.
          I don’t know how it will be as an old car, will the variable drive hold up?
          I am kinda hoping battery technology will advance to the point where in 10 years a higher density storage package will fit in the same space, and I can retire the existing pack for home storage on solar panels.
          It is an asperational purchase, so far am am pleased. I am glad I got a knob on my radio and buttons for the AC.

          1. BenG says:

            The planetary gearset/variable drive in the Prime has been put through the wringer for 15 years and is solid as a rock.

  4. David Murray says:

    Remember they don’t have the Volt in Japan. So this is probably one of the best PHEV offerings available there. Still, that is an impressive number of PHEVs to be sold over there in one month as we’ve never even seen a number that high in the USA which is a much larger market.

    1. Kdawg says:

      Less options in Japan, thus you are stuck with a PP. We are seeing 15,000/month for plug-in sales in the US.

  5. peetah says:

    seeing more of these on the road which is good. I just sincerely hope that Toyota takes note and the Prime 2.0 has much longer electric range…

    1. Elooney Muskey says:

      No, we don’t need much longer range. We don’t even know if this is being plugged in. Due to biased incentives and HOV access rule in places like California, this could be replacing the regular Prius hybrids. Still better than pure ICE with no regen. The trunk of Prius Prime is already quite shallow because of the battery pack. We don’t need any smaller. With workplace charging, this can cut 80-90% of gas usage.

      Instead, Toyota should make more of these and sell more in numbers all around the world at prices competitive with ICE cars. That will help a lot of people get off ICE.

    2. Bacardi says:

      2.0 should keep the same range and have a MSRP of $19,995…

  6. GeorgeS says:

    We have a regular prius 2008 with 108000 miles on it in addition to the model s. Its been a totally reliable vehicle.

  7. Kevin Cowgill says:

    Do I think the Volt is a better choice?
    Without a doubt.
    Unfortunately I also suspect Prime will outsell the Volt
    many times over.
    Some might say “mop the floor”.

    Come on GM. Give great lease incentives for the Volt in Red State truck country, too. (That is where I live, and even Nissan can’t keep Leafs in stock, they sell so fast)

    1. trololo says:

      I remember GM killed the EV1.
      They are not serious about EV.
      Toyota is not Tesla, but at least, they are shipping their car WW.

      1. Kdawg says:

        PP is a compliance car in the US. Focus only on the CARB states.

        1. john1701a says:

          Nationwide deliveries have begun.

          1. Kdawg says:

            Pseudo nationwide. And why the slow roll-out? How much does Toyota lose per car?

            1. john1701a says:

              Worldwide rollout is happening all within the same year.

              1. Kdawg says:

                CARB targets in the US

            2. David Murray says:

              Hahah.. Toyota doesn’t loose anything on these.. And that’s the beauty of it!

              1. ModernMarvelFan says:

                “Toyota doesn’t loose”

                lose?

                If they got nothing to lose, then triple the production quickly then. Sell every copy it can make.

                Obviously it seems that Toyota got at least 100,000 annual spare capacity on the conventional Prius line (that is about how much its sales have dropped from the peak Prius sales in the US). So, it shouldn’t have any issues to boost Prime number to 50K per year unless it doesn’t have enough battery capacity. Why wouldn’t it? Because it doesn’t plan well or doesn’t want to sell more?

                1. BenG says:

                  They are obviously ramping up production quickly, after a very fast start.

                  I expect the ramp to continue over the next years.

                  Of course they didn’t start right out making 10,000/month: that would leave them too vulnerable if unexpected problems cropped up.

                  A Toyota exec said they expected the Prime to sell similar to the second gen Prius liftback, which sold 125,000 wordwide the first year and eventually ramped to ~285,000 world-wide in 2008.

                2. Mikael says:

                  They are at an 90k per year production rate now. How much more and how fast do you expect them to ramp?

                  The Prius Prime will easily be the best selling plug-in globally this year.

              2. David Moron says:

                Toyota is evil.

        2. BenG says:

          kdawg are you just trolling in this thread? You usually seem more reasonable.

          Absurd to call the PP just a compliance car in the US.

          1. Kdawg says:

            You need to know John’s history.

  8. Mikael says:

    Now put a plug on all your vehicles Toyota.

    And make a few proper BEVs.

    1. john1701a says:

      RAV4 hybrid
      Camry hybrid
      Highlander hybrid
      Corolla hybrid
      C-HR hybrid

      Toyota is already on the electrification path. Prius is just the first to offer a plug.

      1. Pushmi-Pullyu says:

        Toyota built the RAV4 EV… but paid Tesla to develop the EV powertrain, because Toyota wasn’t willing to spend the R&D money to do that themselves.

        Toyota has also, in recent years, repeatedly claimed that fool cell cars, not BEVs, are the wave of the future.

        Toyota, like Ford, needs to get serious about developing and selling compelling BEVs, or at least fully capable switch-hitter PHEVs, like the Volt, if they don’t want to be among the auto makers who go out of business during the EV revolution. They need to get serious about that very fast… if it’s not already too late for them to catch up.

        About the best you can say for the Prius Prime and its wholly inadequate 25 miles of EV range, is that at least it’s a slight improvement over the previous Prius Plug-in’s ~11 miles of EV range.

        “Twice nothing is still nothing.” — Cyrano Jones, “(Classic) Star Trek: The Trouble with Tribbles”

        1. zzzzzzzzzz says:

          Toyota does its job for its customers (and for environment too), in the way that makes sense, and not in the way to please some arm-chair EV “revolutionaries” fantasizing about miracle batteries and hating the world for not going their fantasy way.

          Toyota’s 10 million hybrid cumulative sales number and emissions reduced by these hybrids speaks for itself. Much more real difference, not hot air from Veblen goods producers that create more pollution manufacturing their electron guzzlers than an average car would ever produce in its useful lifetime.

          1. Kdawg says:

            Toyota’s plug-in efforts have been very weak. Especially w/their background. The PP is an “also ran” car.

            They need to get serious about electrification and forget the hydrogen distraction.

          2. Tom says:

            10 million? Pffft…when will they ever get serious?

            Simple math for all the Toyota haters:

            25 miles EV range will get 50% of miles driven on EV.

            The 50% of miles driven on ICE will be at DOUBLE the MPG of a regular car.

            Therefore a PP will reduce gasoline consumption vs a regular car by 75%.

            If your goal is to reduce consumption of gasoline across the board by 15% then isn’t selling a PP-like vehicle that is affordable and has no range anxiety to 20% of the car market (and thus reducing gas consumption by .75*0.20 or 15%) far easier to do and more cost effective than trying to cling to 1% market share of an overly subsidized pure BEV market that can’t survive on its own, requires massive infrastructure changes, and buyers have wholeheartedly rejected at all but the most ludicrous levels of money losing pricing?

            I guess if the masses like it then it must be bad right? Or is it that any consumer with half a brain would logically chose a PP over a pure BEV any day because it just makes more sense in their world at their economic reality.

          3. Elooney Muskey says:

            @10z,
            Excellent post! Couldn’t have said better.
            EVs are difficult to scale up and requires too many intrastructural changes. Hybrids do the job much better with little support or incentives.

        2. john1701a says:

          Huh?

          Prime delivers a full EV driving experience. It’s also among the most efficient with electricity consumption. The heat-pump is the industry’s current best too.

          Toyota is striving to make their choices affordable too… NO TAX-CREDIT DEPENDENCY!

          Think about competing directly with traditional vehicles very soon.

          1. mx says:

            ( You should actually drive a Real EV before you say that. Respectfully. The Prime offers a Hybrid experience. It in no way gives you an EV experience. It doesn’t have a battery in the floor, so it doesn’t block road noise. It doesn’t have the Acceleration of a real EV, because it’s electric motors are tiny. )

              1. Kdawg says:

                Dismissing real-world customers tells us much

                1. john1701a says:

                  Parroting does too.

                  1. Kdawg says:

                    Maybe you should listen to yourself sometime.

              2. Mikael says:

                It is not smug. It is correct. Something your post wasn’t.

                If you put errors in your post prepare to be corrected.

                A better way for you to take it is to see it as education and actually learn something from it.

                1. zzzzzzzzzz says:

                  It is smug and promotion of consumerism. Make things more expensive than necessary, consume more, trash more, outsource all dirty production somewhere else out of your backyard and don’t give … about it, demand more tax money to support it, and so on.

                  If you want a “proper” one that you can show to neighbors to signal your virtue, and which costs 50-100-150k as direct result of being “proper”, as well creates more emissions from manufacturing and mining than average hybrid over lifetime, it is available to you. But these “proper” cars are irrelevant to real life families even in the US with $56k median gross household income, that would struggle to come up with money for couple of $20k new cars. Not to mention developing countries with lower disposable income and likely less subsidies to buy luxury cars.

          2. Kdawg says:

            It’s not going to compete with traditional vehicles. It’s going to compete with other crappy cars like the standard Prius.

            Toyota needs to make a real plug-in.

      2. Zero_X_Rider says:

        You listed 5 non-plugin gas only vehicles designed to trick/switch you into hydrogen,made primarily from gas at scale in US.

        Put a plug on it.

        1. zzzzzzzzzz says:

          > Zero_X_Rider

          Fixed it for you:
          “trick/switch you into dependency of Big Electric product, made primarily from gas & coal at scale in the US, especially at night when are forced to use it”

      3. Mikael says:

        By “electrification” you mean petrol only?

        They have set up nicely to be able to easily put plugs on a number of vehicles. But they need to go further to actually do that.

        Toyota could sell a million plug-ins alone tomorrow if they just added a slightly larger battery and a plug to their hybrid vehicles.

        1. BenG says:

          Toyota is positioned to sell a ton of plug-ins fairly quickly by fitting a bigger battery on their existing hybrids.

          But, don’t you think it prudent to start off with one model and make sure it’s going well before expanding the lineup? I do.

          Plus there’s the issue of where you fit the extra battery: Toyota’s other hybrids are already adaptations of ICE designs, which already make sacrifices in cargo-space and utility. Fitting a big enough battery to be useful on a larger car like a Camry is going to seriously impact the cargo space and utility, so it may not be the best idea until you can do a major redesign to accommodate.

  9. Benz says:

    It’s good to see higher sales numbers of the Toyota Prius Prime in Japan in May 2017.

    But what we really need is Toyota to make a compelling and an affordable BEV!!!

    1. mx says:

      AMEN.
      Instead of copying a CMAX, they should copy the i3 REX, including the suspension, carbon-fiber body, and overall design. That would be a real world shakeup.

      1. zzzzzzzzzz says:

        i3 REX or no REX is already available worldwide, including Japan. Unlike GM/Ford, BMW takes Japan market seriously (they even fitted Chademo outlet to Japanese i3) and generate good sales of their cars, including i3, as much as it is possible for its price and utility.

        Anybody with money can buy it. If you think Toyota can magically produce the same significantly cheaper just by changing the badge, it is a bit naive.

        1. mx says:

          I think they can.
          The i3 is a close copy of a Honda Fit EV.

    2. Terawatt says:

      What we really need is for Toyota to go bust. A hydrogen bomb would seem suitably ironical.

  10. Don Zenga says:

    Excellent News. PP is priced at $33K in Japan may be pricey and probably it needed some discounts to move it.

    Prius Prime is the first Plugin Vehicle to cross 5,000 mark in sales in a single market. The other models being purely Battery Electric Vehicles.

    So the global tally in May-2017 stands at 40K (China) + 16K (USA) + 1K (Canada) + 5K+ (Japan) = 62K with EU yet to be counted. If EU makes it 18K, then the tally will cross 80K which is a massive number for a non quarter ending month like May. I hope from June onwards every month will hit 80K sales with December crossing 110K and Worldwide sales exceeding 1 million.

    1. Mikael says:

      Europe did at least 19 600 sales in May.

      Soon 20k will be the permanent minimum level in Europe.

  11. DJ says:

    Ya, while it is an ugly car, it is priced right.

    As a cost conscious consumer I really struggle with the whole Volt vs Prime purchase analysis.

    Sure the Volt has more pick up and more range but if you don’t need it why spend all the extra $$… Not to mention when you go on longer trips it can easily be more fuel efficient and overall cheaper to operate.

    1. Kdawg says:

      Because life is short, so why drive through it in a crappy car? Especially to only save $1, and only when you go on a trip over 300 miles.

    2. Don Zenga says:

      Volt vs Prime comparison.
      You have to pay an extra 6K for an extra 28 mile range, another passenger seat.

      If you have 50 mile daily commute, then the scales may tip in favor of Volt, but if you do frequent long distance trips, then its Prime. You decide.

      1. john1701a says:

        50 miles = 200 MPG

        That’s what you get when taking the time to study Prime.

        30 miles of EV from a 25-mile rating is nice, but it really does come down to looking beyond electric-only range.

        As more Prime fill our roads, that real-world data will become more prominent. Seeing 199.9 MPG on the screen is what will solidify the purchase decision. No complicated math or detailed spreadsheet is required. It really is that simple.

        Plug.

        Drive.

        Get great MPG.

        1. Mark.ca says:

          “50 miles = 200 MPG”
          What a load of crap!

          1. john1701a says:

            Dismissing real-world data tells us much.

            1. Kdawg says:

              200mpg sucks for a PHEV.

      2. Mark.ca says:

        “You have to pay an extra 6K for an extra 28 mile range, another passenger seat.”
        Volt gets you $7500 credit so it’s less not more than the prius.

      3. ModernMarvelFan says:

        “You have to pay an extra 6K for an extra 28 mile range, another passenger seat.”

        It isn’t 6K more after federal incentives.

        Certainly not dealer transaction price either.

      4. Kdawg says:

        After the tax credit, the difference is only $3,200. If you don’t qualify for the tax credit, lease or buy used.

        Most people drive 40+ miles per day. This the data speaking. Once you own a plug-in for some time, you learn that AER is king. The public is slowly becoming educated, one plug-in at a time.

    3. john1701a says:

      >> As a cost conscious consumer I really struggle with the whole Volt vs Prime purchase analysis.

      Notice the level of desperation of some to paint an ugly picture for Prime?

      That extreme is confirmation of a paradigm shift.

      They see the true competition. It isn’t other plug-in vehicle. It’s traditional vehicles… and reality is about to come crashing down soon, when the tax-credits trigger phaseout.

      The measure of success comes from replacement of those guzzlers. A plug-in with a “right sized” battery will compel the masses to buy. Drawing attention isn’t enough. It’s all about high-volume profitable sales.

      Change doesn’t come from someone like you who takes the time to consider detailed analysis. Change comes from those shopping the showroom floor who take an unexpected pause to consider the purchase of a plug-in vehicle, a thought they hadn’t ever entertained.

      1. James says:

        “Notice the level of desperation of some to paint an ugly picture for Prime?”

        ___________________________________________________________________________________

        It aint hard to paint an ugly picture of the Prime, John. The car is the child only a mother could love.

  12. James says:

    Glad to hear they’re selling like hotcakes over in Japan.

    Maybe now they’ll build a Prime with decent EV range for the long drives in the USA.

    If Toyota presses on increasing EV range every generation, they may be up to the Volt’s range in eight or nine years!

    🙂

    Seriously.

    But also on a serious note, if Toyota brings a decent-ranged plugin to the market, everybody else will have to follow.

    Good stuff!

    1. BenG says:

      The Prime is already built to handle the long drives of the US: 25 miles full electric, then 54 MPG on gas as far as you want to go.

  13. ModernMarvelFan says:

    If Toyota had spent as much effort on the Prime as it did on the Mirai, the Prime would already have 45 miles+ EV range and 60mpg while cost less than $30K. Sure, it would still be slow. =) But at least it would be a more practical PHEV.

    But no. Why not? Because it doesn’t want to make the Mirai looking so bad compared against it.

    1. BenG says:

      I’d say they sized the battery where they did because they are making a play to be one of first mass market plug-in vehicles. Pricing and space considerations dictated they keep the battery relatively small.

      The Mirai is a long term play: nothing anyone expects to be mass market any time soon. The Prime on the other hand will probably sell more than 100,000 copies worldwide this year, and a lot more than that next year when supply meets demand the whole year.

      1. ModernMarvelFan says:

        Sure, it has to be 25 miles, not 30 miles? Or why wouldn’t it be 20 miles so it can be even cheaper and pick up the 5th seat?

        What is the excuse for not giving it more EV performance? Those are pretty much “free” in terms of design. More powerful motors don’t cost more. 0-60mph times can be improved with gearing but impacts high rpm efficiency.

        Those are the active decision Toyota choose in trying to “keep its marketing title” of hyper efficiency rather than making the car more appealing to a bigger/wider audience.

        Toyota is guilty at “capping” the appeal of hybrid by dominating the hybrid market with the Prius but did so with a poor image of something that drives like a POS. So, the negative image of hybrid being ugly/slow/poor handling stuck with buyers which made entire Hybrid market into a small niche market.

        Tesla is shattering the negative image that in order to be efficient, it has to be slow and ugly. (okay, Model X is kind of ugly).

        Toyota isn’t doing any favor to the green community by keep making slow EVs.

        If it had brought out the new E-Rav4 with 7.6s performance like it had before, I would have supported it more.

        1. David Murray says:

          The Prius is supposed to be the flagship of efficiency. Toyota’s other hybrids tend to be much faster.

          However, one consideration about the Prime is the battery size. Like with all PHEVs with smaller batteries, they are limited in power output. I would imagine the battery is sized just right for their drive motors. To make it faster it would need a larger battery and larger drive motors, thus increasing the cost. However, some might be willing to pay extra for that. I’m not sure how many, though.

        2. BenG says:

          I disagree that Toyota somehow did a dis-service by building a hybrid that has sold about 10 million copies. The numbers are proof enough that they built a car that hit the mass-market target in terms of price, efficiency and utility.

          In case you haven’t noticed they also have offered a ton of other hybrids, for many years. On other models the hybrid version is generally higher performance than the base model ICE only version.

        3. BenG says:

          The RAV4 hybrid does 0-60 in 8.2 sec as compared to the base model at 9.3 sec. 8.2 second 0-60 is pretty quick, IMO.

          The hybrid also offers more towing capacity and 27% better fuel efficiency.

  14. BenG says:

    Hey, nobody thinks the Prime is the perfect vehicle, but don’t let the perfect be the enemy of the good.

    There are more than a dozen plug-in hybrids on the market that have less range and less EV-only capability than the Prime. Why not waste electrons slagging Ford, BMW, Mercedes, Porsche for all the weak plug-ins they make instead of running down Toyota who is marketing a package that is actually in the sweet-spot of price/performance to sell a ton of vehicles while offering superior electric-only capability?

    Sure the Volt is great, but it’s more expensive, it also has reliability issues lately, and it has much worse cargo space.

    The i3-rex is also more expensive, smaller, has range issues with it’s tiny gas tank, and doesn’t even have 4 regular doors.

    Millions of cars sell every year with ~12 sec 0-60 mpg times … it’s really not a priority for a lot of people, so don’t get hung up on it.

    1. ModernMarvelFan says:

      Sounds like you are pointing all the downside of other cars while propping up the Prime or defending its short coming.

      Yes, millions of car that does 0-60mph around 12seconds or slower around the world, but nearly a Billion car does better!!!

      Sure, there is a place for the Prime where it fits one’s model but the fact that you have to spin other competitors down for the sake of boost Prime is just showing bias.

      That John1071a guy is pretty much a Toyota Prius sales guy who pumps up Prius on every EV site that one can find. Almost like a professional paid advertiser.

      1. BenG says:

        There’s just a lot of people piling on the Prime and Toyota in this thread, so I offered a counterpoint.

        I wasn’t aware of john’s history, but it’s no excuse to go crazy slagging the Prime and Toyota. Just correct whatever error you might perceive he’s saying and carry on.

        The Volt and the i3 are pretty much the only two plug-ins available that are arguably better than the Prime, with more electric-only range and better acceleration, but those aren’t the only things that matter, and the Prime beats them on some other important issues, i.e. price, reliability, cargo space, efficiency operating on either electric or gas.

    2. David Murray says:

      Amen… Couldn’t have said it better. I am at a loss to see why so many people are poo-pooing this car. It’s a good price and is much better than most other PHEVs. If there were no Volt, I’d seriously consider the Prime.

  15. unlucky says:

    Wow, so much fighting in here.

    I’ll add my input I guess.

    I don’t like the i3, REx or no. It’s hideous, the interior is awful and those doors would put me off even if everything else was great.

    I’m not a fan of the Prius Prime, it has unnecessary strange styling, no middle rear seat, it’s slow and I’ve never liked those strange shifter levers in Toyotas (Mirai has one too).

    I like the Volt, I think it’s the right choice for a lot of people.

    Now all that having been said am I somehow upset a bunch of people bought Prius Primes? Nope. Japanese aren’t going to buy Volts anyway because of their inherent biases and getting a Chevy serviced in Japan is probably a nightmare. So they probably bought the best car that was a possibility for them. Win.

  16. Jenny says:

    I was waiting…waiting….and waiting for Toyota TMCC to release a better financing or leasing program but it never happened. I drive the 2014 Prius plug-in but because they didn’t have a good program, I am now leasing a Hyundai Sonata plug-in. The car drives nicely but not ready to say it’s better than Prius. I really enjoyed my 2014 plug-in. Too bad they deterred me from continuing to be a Prius owner!

  17. (⌐■_■) Trollnonymous says:

    Anyone else see John and Kdawgs bromance blooming here???
    😛

    1. john1701a says:

      His priority is faster & further.

      My priority is high-volume profitable sales.

      That fundamental difference had been a major problem. I couldn’t care less about enthusiast wants, it’s all about mainstream consumer need… sustainable business.

      1. Kdawg says:

        You are just a Toyota enthusiast. While others (Tesla, Nissan, GM, Ford) were doing the heavy lifting, all you could do is troll. Now Toyota has a weak offering and you are claiming superiority in the plugin arena, any which way you can spin it.

        1. john1701a says:

          Good example of faster & further.

          Ordinary consumers just plain aren’t interested in getting the most, they simply want a good buy.

          That nice balance is why Toyota will sell a lot of Prime.

          1. Kdawg says:

            Unfortunately the PP isn’t a good buy. We are still waiting for Toyota to make something that’s worth the money. And apparently Toyota felt they need “faster further” over the PiP, because they made it faster and go further. Sadly they still fell short. If this wasn’t a concern, why not just stay with the PiP’s 6 miles of EV range?

  18. BenG says:

    I saw my first Prime on the road the other day. I think they look cool. But then I’m one who likes the looks of the 4th gen Prius: it reminds me of origami, and I like how it doesn’t look like every other car on the road.

    I realize a lot of people don’t like the design. I’ve talked to one 3rd gen Prius owner who was so turned off by the new design that she was struggling over whether she should upgrade.

    My wife and I own a 2cnd gen Prius, have for about 4 years now. It’s been a fantastic car. Though it did take some getting used to the driving dynamics, I’ve found it fairly enjoyable to drive: it’s got the premium sound system which helps the experience. I’ve never had a problem lacking acceleration when I needed it. Biggest downside is the engine noise.

    Last summer my wife and I added a Gen 1 Volt which I drive. I mostly love it, but I do miss some things about the Prius: layout and usability of infotainment/controls, cargo space and access, view outside the car, especially to the rear, exacerbated by the rear-view camera being low-quality, especially at night. And I get irritated by the Volt’s proximity alert system, which is constantly and uselessly beeping at me when I go to back out of a parking spot. Plus the charge port door gets stuck shut a lot of the time so I’ve got to fiddle with it to get it open. Pretty sure that wouldn’t happen on a Toyota. I do love the electric driving experience, and the handling, ride and acceleration are better than the Prius.

    In my hometown the electricity comes from coal, so I’m not really doing any better for the environment by plugging in, but that will change before long when they upgrade the plant to natural gas.

    1. Kdawg says:

      “Plus the charge port door gets stuck shut a lot of the time so I’ve got to fiddle with it to get it open.”
      ———
      This also bothered me on the Gen1 Volt, and apparently enough other people that GM finally went with the KISS philosophy on the 2014 and made it manual. It would be nice to be able to retrofit my 2013, esp in the winter when it sticks more.

      1. BenG says:

        Interesting to know. Thanks. I agree a retrofit would be nice.

Leave a Reply to Tom Cancel reply