In December, Every Fourth Prius Sold Was The Plug-In Prime Version

Toyota

JAN 8 2018 BY MARK KANE 88

Toyota Prius Prime (PHV) sales in U.S. – December 2017

Toyota Prius Prime ended the year 2017 on a high, finishing in fourth place overall for plug-in electric car sales in the U.S., and first for plug-in hybrid (PHEV) offerings.

Prime sales hit a new record in December, and netted the highest share of sales out of the entire Prius family of offerings.

Toyota

Toyota Prius Prime

In total, 2,420 Prius Primes were delivered last month (up 47% year-over-year), good enough for 25.5% share of sale among the Prius family.

The 20,936 Prius Prime sold in 2017 is more than 1st generation Prius Plug-In (PIP) ever notched in a single year (a peak of 13,264 was achieved in 2014).

However, for total Toyota car sales, the Prius Prime still accounts for just 1% though.

It’s worthy to note that Toyota Prius Prime managed to overtake the Chevrolet Volt (20,349), and become the best selling plug-in hybrid on the market last year.

Here is a comparison of Toyota plug-in Prius sales:

Toyota Prius Prime (PHV) sales in U.S. – December 2017

Categories: Sales, Toyota

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88 Comments on "In December, Every Fourth Prius Sold Was The Plug-In Prime Version"

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JyChevyVolt

Prius Prime was probably the best selling EV model, world wide, this year.

Micke Larsson

Certainly not. It’s beaten by the BAIC EC-series my a mile. It sold 16k units last month alone and is looking toward 20k units in December.

It is also beaten by the Model S that will be the second best selling plug-in in the world just like last year.

JyChevyVolt

I know it’s wrong but I usually ignore China, unless it’s sold world wide.

ziv

I am not sure that it is wrong to ignore China. It is a hybrid of a command and a market economy that is unlike the vast majority of other economies of the world. It isn’t like we count the cars made in North Korea. Though it isn’t every day you spot a Pyeonghwa Pronto rolling down the street…
😉
The crux of the matter is that if the Chinese Communist Party dictates that 50% of the vehicles to be built next year are to be fueled by rice wine, then by gum, they will be fueled by rice wine. It is kind of easy to ignore them even though they are such a huge economy because they are so different.

Micke Larsson

It is wrong… I would never ignore to count the Chevy Volt for exactly the same reason. 😉

Anyway, still second when looking at models sold world wide.

mx

Can you imagine the sales if they had actually designed a real, new, viable Plugin, with 40 miles of range?

The Prime is a Supplier Car.
The suppliers simply upgraded components from the old Prius Prime, then Toyota slapped a new body on it.
This is economically an inexpensive way to develop the vehicle.
( The battery is Still in the Trunk, instead of under the floor, so handling, space and passenger’s are limited. )
But, the Lost Sales from a clean design is YUGE.

David Murray

I’d be interested to see the breakdown with the other Prius family.

AnonyMouse
Michael

If Prime PHEV is just stealing sales from Prius Hybrids, then we are just treading water. Some critics suggest that EV sales growth is only meaningful if it is taking market share from ICE not other EVs.

Spoonman.

It’s less of a difference than replacing a 20 MPG car with a PHEV, true, but if the new owners are plugging them in, that’s still an improvement.

john1701a

That’s where the other hybrids come in… Camry, Corolla, RAV4, C-HR, and the new Prius v. Think about each of them offering a plug too.

Diversification is the next step, one that oddly GM refuses to actually take. Volt should have been offered… or at the very least announced… as being available in small SUV form.

It’s very important to offer a variety of choices.

Micke Larsson

Prius hybrid is an ICE, not an EV.

It can only be fueled with a fuel that is burned to propel the car.

It’s a more efficient ICE than many others and especially non-diesel vehicles, but still an ICE.

john1701a

Prime/PHV models of Prius run primarily using electricity.

Adding a one-way clutch and increasing the size of the battery-pack is essentially all that’s needed to make it operate as an EV.

So what if some gas still gets used. Seeing 2,000 miles per tank during the summer is pretty sweet.

Micke Larsson

Read the comment I commented on.

Michael

The criticism is that former hybrid owners and current EV buyers are basically the same people. (You know, virtue-signalling …. blah,blah,blah…) The Prius/Prime shift. The Volt/Bolt? I really hope this isn’t true

Tom

Anybody have concrete info on planned production capacity? I presume given the pricing and federal rebate that they could easily be 3 out of 4 as PP if they had enough production capacity.

john1701a

50,000 produced & sold worldwide in the first year is impressive, especially since Prime introduced dual-wave glass and a carbon-fiber hatch.

Spreading inventory between Japan, Europe, and North American meant many of the states in the middle of the US had nothing to sell.

Greater supply in 2018 will make things very interesting.

Bill Howland

John if you’re not already a Toyota Salesman, you should be.

My ELR also has a bit of carbon fibre in it, but they didn’t necessarily call attention to it – and what the heck is ‘dual wave glass’ and why should I care?

In spite of trivial features that the car has, I’m more impressed by the basic features of the car – the interior looks rather roomy and inviting, the car’s efficiency is very good in either fully electric or gasoline modes, and it can finally do neighborhood shopping trips fully on electricity.

Whether it actually has carbon fibre in it or not I don’t care about – same as I don’t care about the ELR’s interior to that specificity – Its just very nice and comfortable.

Bill Howland

Oh ok I looked up the brouchure – the dual wave glass seems about as important as that great ‘600 volt maximum’ motor! Couldn’t care less about either feature….

The brouchure at least Gave the Impression, that you could keep the engine off if you wanted to up to 84 mph, and that it can go 25 miles on the battery, so it puts the germans to shame.

I mean, 25 miles really sucks, but its twice as good as the German crap.

john1701a

Whether you care or not doesn’t matter. The benefits of carbon-fiber (weight reduction) and the dual-wave glass (self clearing) design won’t get noticed.

It always boils down to purchase-price, which is why production-cost should be getting more attention.

Instead, we get comments pretending all will be well when tax-credits expire, that the market will suddenly have a huge surge in demand despite having to pay more.

Ugh.

mx

Don’t laugh.
That dual wave glass is very important.
The battery is back there in the trunk area.
You need that dual wave glass to get two duffle bags into the back.
Very limited space.

Vexar

Well, what do you expect? It is the most expensive option and Americans are 75% more likely to ignore the benefits to total cost of ownership and the cost to the environment with 100% of their miles being ICE-driven.

mx

Most Americans don’t know how to reset the trip odometer.
Or, what a trip odometer is.
Most Americans don’t know how far they live and drive from work.
Most Americans don’t know how to calculate the MPG of the car they’re driving.

Don Zenga

Toyota’s mantra is “You dont need to plugin”, so they are selling this Prius Plugin on limited volume. In fact this is their only plugin, while they are selling 30+ hybrid models. Because all other automakers are selling a plugin, they just joined. Why the Prius plugin is able to sell 1/4, its because of the lower price after fed rebate. But I am happy that they sold 20,000+ units. This year, most likely they will accelerate, because the electric and other plugins are biting at its share.

john1701a

Outdated information doesn’t do anyone any good. Kind of like how GM was dead set against any EV offerings?

Pushmi-Pullyu

Doesn’t look to me like that’s outdated in the slightest. Toyota is still talking about waiting until they get solid state batteries before making a BEV.

In other words, they have no BEV model in the development pipeline that’s going to be put into production for at least 3-4 years, and quite possibly longer.

Vexar

“waiting for a battery breakthrough.” Yeah, that’s laughable. That’s like a friend of mine who “was going to get a Model S” then “liked the Model X and was going to get that” and then “put a reservation down on a Model III” and now he’s saying “I think I’ll wait for the Model Y.”
Market agility is not spelled “TOYOTA”

john1701a

Development takes place with existing & prototype batteries. They don’t easier until production-ready to start. On fact, Toyota already stated the EV model of C-HR is being worked on.

It’s really sad how desperate posts have become to spin that Toyota will be years behind, despite undeniable evidence to the contrary.

Motor, controller, and related EV components are already being manufactured in high-volume for the hybrids. Think about the size & power from Camry & RAV4 hybrids. Pretending Prius is all alone is not the slightest bit constructive.

Vexar

@john1701a I’ve worked at Toyota HQ in Torrance, CA. It wasn’t very long, but it was long enough to form an opinion. I was apprised to not mention I have a Tesla, tried to show an interest in this one VP’s love of cars, then he asked me what I own. I was super-evasive, but eventually capitulated and told him. I got the battery lie out of him. It was so… verbatim, you’d think it was written on the memo section of every employee’s paycheck there.

Dan
Aside from its weird looks, the regular prius is a car with great utility (means value), and unbeatable reliability and durability and very good resale value. You can regularly buy a new Prius 2 for 21-22k. My friend just bought one for 20.5k Plus, you can drive it across town or across the country without a second thought for about $.05-$.06/mile at 2.50 to 3 dollar gas. You CO2/mile will be only a little more than your Bolt or Leaf based on the US electrical grid fuel mix. The prime lets You do your local driving with zero tailpipe emissions but lacks the great luggage capacity and flat load floor of the regular prius and is a 4 seat rather than a (tight, though fine for kids) 5 seat car. The electric car zealotry expressed in this forum is just that, ZEALOTRY with all the narrow mindedness that implies. I lease a PHEV and may well replace it with another or perhaps an EV but absent the taxpayer financed tax credits and kickback I would get from California and assuming current pricing I would be fine with a good hybrid. If CA really bans ICE vehicles rather than letting real… Read more »
Robert Weekley

Please Do! And don’t forget to jack up that pickup, with at least a 12″ lift kit, Add a Car Topper Aluminum Boat on top, and put Tall Stacks and Air Breather Pipes on it, so you can Wade Through the Flodded Streets!

Merv

Don’t forget to buy a diesel and modify it so you can roll coal at every EV you pass. Everyone will be suitably impressed.

David Cary

I hope in retrospect you can see that you are being a bit immature with that last sentence.

Many countries have set a timeline for banning ICEs. I think a rational look at the trend lines and what is better shows that pure EV for all is a laudable goal.

Yes – we could do more faster by having everyone in Prius’s than any EVs at this point. Yes a carbon tax would probably be better than an EV credit at this point. But we have to deal with what we have.

The other thing of course is that EV’s rock and the Prius is boring. PHEV’s don’t rock like EVs and are compromised.

Josh

I’m one of these December buyers. Went shopping around looking at possibly upgrading a heavily driven (200 miles per week for work) and increasingly uncomfortable 14 Prius C to a 17 Prius. Went with the Prime instead after researching state and federal PEV incentives. This despite the fact that I can’t charge it at home or work and am limited to public charge points.

One thing I noticed…in shopping around not one dealership actually pushed the fact that between state and federal incentives the car came with a combined $6,000 in state rebate and federal tax credits. Multiple salesmen seemed completely unaware and surprised by the amount when I mentioned it after closing. I suspect Primes could be selling better if Toyota dealerships were more on top of this. And my back certainly feels better so far now that I’m in a vehicle with a real suspension.

Kdawg

What will Toyota do when they can’t rely on tax credits? They are already giving away the PP at a loss.

john1701a

Telling yourself Prime isn’t profitable doesn’t make it true.

The design takes advantage of 20 years of cost-reduction refinement.

Tom

No kidding. It is probably the most immune from loss of the credit of any vehicle except the Model X

Vexar

In part because the Model X is the most excluded EV in history when it comes to government incentives.

Kdawg

It took Toyota 17 years to finally eek a small profit on the standard Prius. The PP comes in less w/the tax credit. Without the credit, selling it at the same price or less than the plain Prius is obviously shedding blood. With the battery in it now, among other things, even with the jacked up price (thanks tax credit), they are still losing cash w/every sale.

Your fanboism blinds you to the facts. Toyota took too long sitting by discrediting EVs and is now trying to play “me too”. Too little too late. TLTL.

john1701a

That claim is so easy to prove false, yet attempts to greenwash continue anyway. No one here is gullible enough to believe it.

Toyota achieved profitability way back when Prius was the only hybrid offered. Making money on the system is how & why it was rolled out to so many other vehicles in the fleet.

Kdawg

From concept in Japan, it was 17 years later before they turned a tiny profit on the Prius. Sorry if this makes you upset because it doesn’t fit your fictitious narrative.

Kinda funny you are demanding immediate profits from others. Also funny you can’t see how they are losing cash w/the PP.

Toyota blinders in full-effect.

TLTL

mx

You didn’t supply any proof. Meaning you’re just pushing a hoax.
Go Away Russian Troll.

Kdawg

Интернет – ваш друг.

HVACman

One in four is actually a major achievement. I believe several studies have shown that only between 50-60% of all car buyers even have regular access to a plug that could be used for plug-in charging. Very few urban or apartment dwellers can benefit much from a plug-in.

So if the potential plug-in Prius Prime market is just 60% of the total Prius market and the Prime gets 25% of the total Prius market, that means that almost half of the potential plug-in Prime market actually buys it. Given how little most of the average car buyers actually know about plugins, the relative economics, performance, tax issues, etc., that is a masterful achievement.

It shows that with a known and respected product, knowledgeable sales staff, and a competitive price, combined with increased familiarity, plug-ins will really take off in the future.

And autonomous EVs will take in an increasing share of the urban market as urban dwellers move away from owning any vehicle at all.

ItsNotAboutTheMoney

Given the price, tax credits and incentives and falling Prius sales, it’s really not surprising at all.

Pushmi-Pullyu

Aye. Considering the rebates and dealer incentives which bring the total price for the Prime down below other Prius models for many or most buyers, it’s surprising that the Prime has only captured 1/4 of total Prius sales.

Let’s not forget that a year ago, the “smart money” was on the Prius Prime taking the #1 spot for PEV sales in the USA. The reality has been rather disappointing, altho I seem to recall that at least part of the lower than expected sales was inadequate inventory sent over here by Toyota.

john1701a

Spin all you want. 50,000 is very respectable production for a first year. How many other plug-in vehicles had that many for their rollout?

Robert Weekley

Regardless! In Canada, this car is still restricted to Quebec, just one of 3 provinces with EV Direct Rebates, and not the highest rebates, either!

However, Quebec DOES have a new ZEV Mandate that kicks into gear in 2018!that seems to scream ‘Still a Compliance Car’ in Canada, for sure!

Kdawg

The fact that it is their new flagship, and they are giving it away, but only got 25% return, is pretty sad.

Try to spin it how you want, but expectations were much higher. What will Toyota do when they can’t rely on the tax credits, and their PP costs more than a plain old Prius, and it has less cargo room, and less seating? People don’t care about wavy glass and the polarizing looks. Those have probably turned away more potential buyers, if anything.

David Cary

Respectable – sure.
This is Toyota of course. The car is an evolution of a 20 year old design.

Does anyone doubt that Nissan can make 50,000 Leafs in 2018? A car with 1/3 the longevity of the Prius, 5% of the lifetime sales, from a company less than 1/2 the size of Toyota, and with a battery 10 times the size.

Ok some of that was potentially exaggerated for emphasis but still.

CarGuy

Ok, Let’s get real folks. Almost all the Primes were sold in Cali. They sold in mass because they are one of the cheapest ways to get into the HOV lane. Many people that buy them never even plug them in. Craziness! Many are owned by apartment dwellers that don’t plug them in. Cali never should have issued more stickers for HOV lanes for plug ins with limited range.

M3 - reserved -- Niro/Leaf 2.0/Outlander - TBD

This is why 2022 won’t be renewed for the HOV stickers for either BEV or PHEV.

It’ll be interesting to see how Prime stacks against Niro PHEV and EV; along with Leaf 2.0.

Fiat found their sweet spot with the Pacifica. Honda needs to revise their CR-V for a PHEV — it’ll kick

john1701a

Getting real is making wild claims without any proof whatsoever? That is craziness!

Reality is, I’m in an owner in Minnesota who enjoys EV commutes to & from work.

Just_Chris

Saying people only buy EV’s because of HOV lane access just means I would like to see more HOV lanes. I never really understood why people are critical about successful policy.

If a government decides that air quality is a major problem and that transport is the cause I want them to find a solution. Ca is doing better than most.

M3 - reserved -- Niro/Leaf 2.0/Outlander - TBD

Wildly guessing here — you’ve never driven in LA or Bay Area rush hour traffic for a week.

Folk buying Prius itself have a reason for it over other hybrids. the Prime with HOV access makes it an easy choice since incentives will keep parity with rest of Prius.

The only non-Prime Prius to win over would be cargo needing Prius buyers since the Prime has the cargo space of my Fiat.

CarGuy

I will like to see a state by state break down of Prime sales for 2017.

Robert Weekley

Wouldn’t we all?!
And same for each vehicle listed on the InsideEVs report! Even if it was for 2017, and only got published by March 31st, 2018! (It would be a big research project, and would like need support fro each States MV Division, to get the data, from registrations!)

Michael

I’m sure part of the reason for this sales performance is that they’ve made the standard Prius “worse than Nissan Leaf ugly”.

When a customer comes and sees both side-by-side, they’re at least going to ask about the non-ugly Prius sitting right next to the other.

Lawrence

Nissan brought over a Leaf for me to test drive last week and I was actually impressed by how good it looked in person. My wife liked it as well. On the flip side, she was disappointed in how the Model 3 looked in person. She said it looks like a Kia Optima. We’re still getting both as we love EV’s because of the technology and environmental benefits, but unfortunately there aren’t any affordable and great looking EV’s out there.

CCIE

I suppose it’s better that people are buying some kind of plugin instead of an ICE vehicle or HEV. But, it’s just sad that anyone with an option would choose the Prime. Volt or Clarity PHEV are both much better options available for the same price, or less, out the door.

People still don’t do their research and buy just based on outdated notions of Toyota and the Prius being innovative and superior… they’re neither. Toyota would kill EVs if they could.

Lawrence

I’ve driven a lot of EV’s and the Prius is terrible. It isn’t that much better today. The first Hybrid that I drove was a Prius and it made me swear off Hybrids for well over a decade. Drove like total, utter crap.

I drove the Volt the day it came out. The Volt opened my mind to how incredible an all electric drivetrain really can be.

I think that the Prius is doing a disservice because it probably is turning of people to EV’s. Their argument about efficiency and fuel savings also is a detractor as fuel savings is a side benefit and not actually the best part of an EV. People are calculating the savings and saying that the sacrifice isn’t worth it. It sends the wrong message about whats really great about EV’s. I would drive an EV even if there were no electricity vs gas savings.

john1701a

Never actually driven a Prime, eh? Know your audience. Toyota does. It’s a Prius with significantly more electric power.

I merge onto the highway every morning effortlessly with mine. See… https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JXyU36mJMiY

Notice how much electricity was still left in that summer drive? Colder has been great too. I make it just fine to work using nothing but electricity. See… https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w_n7UfPSZfk&t=35s

ModernMarvelFan

Thanks for the video link:

Freaking slow Prius driver who got passed by School Bus!

Thanks for the confirmation! Typical slow Prius driver!

At least you are in the right lane.

Lawrence

I have driven a Prime. Worst of both worlds. A drivetrain that is more complex than both ICE and EV combined. And slower than either.

mx

To be fair, It’s more complex and yet Toyota has extremely high reliability ratings.

john1701a

Desperate already to distract the *COST* benefit Prime offers? The resulting much lower MSRP will play a major roll in mass-market appeal.

In the meantime, we patiently wait for first year ownership to draw to a close for the initial buyers. Their real-world endorsements will play a vital role in reaching the audience Volt never could.

It’s all about growing beyond early-adopter interest. Achieving high-volume sales requires far more than just “sad” insults. Real leaders find a way to attract ordinary people to their product.

CCIE

As I said in my post, the Prime does not cost less out the door. It just has a lower MSRP, which fools uneducated buyers. The better discounting, and larger tax credits for PHEVs with real batteries, makes them cost the same as a Prime out the door.

The Prime has awful acceleration, and low EV range. Hopefully it doesn’t turn-off too many people who have been unfortunate enough to buy it. Real PHEVs and BEVs are actually fun to drive.

Toyota isn’t a leader or innovator in the PHEV or BEV space. They’re still wasting resources on useless foolcell vehicles and hoping that BEVs fail.

ModernMarvelFan

1 in 4 because total Prius sales have tanked.

So, it will be even higher if non-plugin Prius sales continue to decline!

john1701a

That’s called progress. Each generation marches forward. The goal of replacing traditional offerings is well underway.

This is the first to demonstrate that an affordable plug-in hybrid choice can appeal to the masses.

The other hybrids… Camry, RAV4, etc. all hold potential to do the same too.

ModernMarvelFan

Stop your stupid spin. You are a Prius fan boy who have been spinning it in every green site. It is almost like you work for Toyota.

Prius sales COMBINED at about 1/2 of what it used to in 2012/2013. If you called 50% drop in sales as progress, then you truly deserve to drive a Prius and I LOVE that progress. Hope it gets to zero soon!!!

john1701a

Fear of the actual numbers is clearly reflected in your choice to attack the messenger. Whatever.

20,936 was the first year sales here in the United States, making up a decent chunk of the overall 50,000 sold worldwide.

$27,100 MSRP includes several safety features not standard on most other plug-in vehicles. That shows Toyota made a significant effort to target ordinary consumers.

The goal is to end the reign of guzzlers by getting people to finally take interest in the benefit of plugging in. Too bad if you don’t like the approach.

Kdawg

Toyota is giving the car away at a loss after raking in the tax credit. They are a day late and a dollar short.

Sitting on the sidelines for so long has not worked out for them. What should their next step be?

HVACman
Toyota is late to the game, but I see the Prime as their first major move towards the plug-in electric future. GM introduced the limited-volume Spark EV and the ELR EREV specifically to provide GM’s engineers with real-world data about the vehicles operation and use from real-world everyday drivers. This is clear when reading the SAE papers of development of the Gen 2 Volt and the Bolt EV. A necessary retail-technical toe-dipping exercise before making a big leap. GM was soundly bashed for those low-volume efforts, with repeated unfounded references to “compliance car”. But that was not it at all. It’s that GM takes measured and thorough development steps to new technologies. This not their first rodeo. I believe the Prime is Toyota’s first real PHEV toe-dipping exercise. They have several monstrous technology centers that rival GM’s Warren facility. Anyone who believes Toyota does not have big things at-work behind the scenes is fooling themselves. When Toyota rolls out their electrified versions of their full product line a few years from now, it will be competitive with GM, BMW, Nissan, Tesla, and the other current EV players. The global EV war is on and all the major players now know… Read more »
Kdawg

The only silver lining I can see is, Toyota using its namesake to convince its followers to try a plug-in. Once they get a small taste of EV driving, they will want more than the few they get in the PP. So hopefully their next purchase will be something that can allow them to go 3-6 months between fill-ups. Maybe Toyota will have their Volt knockoff done by then.

ModernMarvelFan

“Fear of the actual numbers is clearly reflected in your choice to attack the messenger. Whatever.”

LOL. I attacked messenger because messenger made a stupid Youtube video showing the world what a slow driver he is.

As far as numbers are concerned, the fact is that Prius sales in the US is LESS THAN HALF OF WHAT IT WAS BACK IN 2012!!

Lawrence

He mentioned the Camry and RAV4 …. he’s as you described or completely oblivious to the developments outside of Toyota which has far surpassed them.

john1701a

No, I just don’t buy the load of bologna claiming faster & further is what will attract mainstream buyers.

Toyota… like Hyundai/Kia… is focusing on affordability instead.

Yar

I resemble that remark. However I have only used public charging twice. I do plug my prime in each night. The main reason is I like to use the warm up feature and still have a full charge.
I bet the profit margin is much closer on a prime than a regular Prius. I expect that is why they aren’t on more lots.

Mark.ca

What i get from this is that 75% of buyers leave money on the table by purchasing the regular prius. Last time i checked there was a $3500 difference between the regular and the prime. Why would anyone buy the regular when there is a $4500 tax credit for the prime? In CA you also get $1500 from the state and $450 from utilities. Why? Why? Why?

Vexar

Too many Americans are not shrewd shoppers. They think paycheck to paycheck and cannot plan. If you ever, ever wonder why many countries think we are complete idiots by and large, you now have your very own example.

“ROI means what, exactly?”
“What can I get now?”
“I want to do something today, not wait until next year when I pay my taxes.”

We are such a consumer-driven society, people in Marketing are making up our minds for us. Marketing. Typical person in Marketing has an 8th grade education. Think Zoolander.

Prsnep

The amount of resistance in this thread towards the Prime which could very well be the the vehicle that produces the least CO2 and is the cheapest to operate is astounding.

CCIE

That’s because it’s neither of those things. The battery is too small to provide enough electric-only range to significantly reduce gas usage. Most Prime drivers will regularly use gas.

A lot of us have an issue with a major manufacturer like Toyota dragging their feet on PHEV and BEV development.

Vexar

To your point, in California, most people drive a lot. It’s a big state with a lot of people living in it. I know plenty of folks here in Minnesota who can make a Nissan Leaf work for them just fine. That’s 100 miles. 20 miles? Not in California, not in MN in the Winter. The ICE will kick in on the Prius Prime every day. How many Ford CMAX owners weren’t told that it came with a plug?

I think plug-in hybrids are harder to understand due to their mechanically superior complexity to a pure ICE or BEV. Therefore, as long as Toyota makes everything blurry, Americans won’t get it.

john1701a

Looking past the spin and the rhetoric, I’ve noticed a pattern.

Some don’t know how Prime actually works. There are assumptions being made, leading to incorrect conclusions.

This is a major reason why Toyota spread first-year rollout to multiple markets. Education takes awhile and GM caused a lot of collateral damage with Volt confusion.

It’s unfortunate that exists here. You’d think the best informed would come from a resource like this. Overlooking plug-in hybrids was clearly a missed opportunity.

CCIE

As you said, some of the people best informed about BEVs & PHEVs read and contribute here. We understand how (poorly) the Prime works, and most of us dislike it, as well as Toyota’s poor strategy.

GM created a solid EREV in 2010. Toyota has yet to even equal what the Gen1 Volt could do back then. If anyone has caused damage, it’s Toyota by failing to invest in BEVs.

Lawrence

As you said Toyota’s goal is the masses, and the masses don’t know anything more about a car than the steering wheel and pedals.

We do know how a Prius Prime works and that’s why it’s such an antiquated system that “works” but doesn’t represent progress. People here know how cars work and especially EV’s and that is why we know a Prius for what it is. An appliance that gets people from A to B. Mechanically coupled ICE, CVT, 25 miles on electricity (and 5 hours to charge it). This is progress for Toyota but they are just prolonging what is obsolete.

It does its job and that’s about it. And for people who need a car like they need a refrigerator, it’s a good candidate.

john1701a

Good example of not being well informed.

Bill Howland

Yeah, well, I think the car is pretty impressive. I’m just not quite as enthralled as Star Trek John is… But the basic car is very nice – it will save alot of gasoline usage (or it should anyway), and looks to be a practical ‘only car’ vehicle.

I hope they sell many, which they should in my area since there are plenty of plain old prius’s (pri-i?) around.