Hyundai Confirms SAE Combo 100 kW Fast Charging For IONIQ Electric

MAR 25 2016 BY MARK KANE 50

Hyundai IONIQ Electric

Hyundai IONIQ Electric

Hyundai IONIQ Electric charging inlet

We Snapped This Pic Of Hyundai IONIQ Electric’s Charging Inlet From Its US Debut This Week In New York (InsideEVs/Tom Moloughney)

Hyundai has made the choice of charging standard for its first all-electric model that will enter series production in the US. And as we discovered first hand at the 2016 NYIAS, we know for sure it’s not CHAdeMO.

The IONIQ Electric on the stage was equipped with SAE J1772 Combo inlet (also called  CCS Combo) with Hyundai claiming 100 kW charging capability (20 minutes recharge up to 80% of 28 kWh battery).

“Charging the Ioniq Electric’s lithium-ion polymer battery up to 80 percent only takes about 20 minutes using a SAE Combo Level 3 DC, 100 kW fast-charger. An integrated In-Cable Control Box (ICCB) also allows drivers to charge their Ioniq at a standard household electric socket.”

Hyundai IONIQ Electric - Image From Geneva

Hyundai IONIQ Electric – Image From Geneva

Some thoughts about move to the CCS Combo was also recently shared by InsideEVs’ contributor Tom Moloughney, when we spotted the AC Type 2-based CCS Combo inlet in Europe from the Geneva show.

As one can see, there is no space for an additional CHAdeMO inlet, and we can be sure that Hyundai now joins the CCS team (at least in Europe and North America).

Another thought that arose immediately after we realized what Hyundai did, is if Kia (partner of Hyundai) will also follow the SAE J1772 Combo.

Perhaps with a future switch in mind, Kia has already installed multi-standard DC fast chargers at its dealerships (CHAdeMO + CCS Combo), despite the Soul EV being only available with the CHAdeMO. protocol.  It seems just matter of time before Kia too will pull the plug from CHAdeMO in the West.

Of note: CHAdeMO continues to be the standard of choice for the home market in South Korea for both the Kia Soul EV and IONIQ Electric product.

Categories: Charging, Hyundai

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50 Comments on "Hyundai Confirms SAE Combo 100 kW Fast Charging For IONIQ Electric"

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Looks like the gap between Ioniq and Bolt will not be so large after all since Bolt is only capable of charging up to 90 miles in 30 minutes according to GM which would be similar to Ioniq’s charge rate.

Of course there is still the little matter that those 100KW chargers Hyundai is touting don’t actually exists….GM can’t be bothered with infrastructure but maybe Hyundai could do a Tesla here and take matters in its own hands.

Today’s SparkEV charges 90 miles in 30 minutes, so Bolt is just the same speed as $15K SparkEV vs Bolt’s $28K (both after Fed+CA subsidy).

I don’t know if Hyundai will contribute to charging as they said nothing about that. They have very few cars to begin with, and higher power charger would only benefit Bolt (if it can use the extra power).

As for Kia dumping Chademo, also unlikely. Chademo is far more popular. I’m surprised Hyundai went with CCS, though having same charger port as gas filler is small incentive.

SparkEV is rated by the EPA at 82 miles of range.

SparkEV may be able to charge at 3 mpm (miles per minute) for a brief period of time. It can’t charge 90 miles in 30 minutes, unless you mean spread across multiple charging sessions.

SparkEV charges 80% in 20 minutes. Technically, you’re right going by EPA range. However, going by real world test in freeway (~93 to 98 miles), it charges to 100% in 30 minutes.

We’re not talking about L2. SparkEV DCFC is quickest charging in the world at the moment for % charged. For miles added, it’s only behind Tesla.

Show me where the Spark EV can do 93 to 98 miles on the freeway.

2014 has 98 miles range at 62 MPH.

2015 SparkEV has 93 miles range at 55 MPH. I discuss SparkEV range in this blog post called “SparkEV range”. Imaginative, yes? 🙂

From what I’ve read, Chevy is quoting recharge times based on the fact that 50kW chargers are prevalent, and 100kW chargers are not.

Last I knew, they were still evaluating whether or not to make the car capable of higher rates internally, but they were going to continue advertising 50kW because that’s what is available for stations today.

Ioniq will average 67kW up to 80%. Maybe it will go as high as 90kW average up to 50%. The bolt will, if it really just gets as slow charging as they are saying, only charge at 50kW or usually a little bit slower. The “90miles in 30min” quote is based on 50kW charging.

“Looks like the gap between Ioniq and Bolt will not be so large after all ”

Almost a 100% gap in range.
Ioniq EV range:110
Bolt EV range: 200+

A 70% gap in performance.
Ioniq hp: 118
Bolt hp: 200

The question will be if the Ioniq will be substantially cheaper than the Bolt. If not it doesn’t look good for the Ioniq.

Assume full charges at start and stop, 100 kW CCS available at each stop.

150 mile trip:
IONIQ – 1 stop to charge, 10-15 minutes
Bolt – 0 stops

250 mile trip:
IONIQ – 2-3 stops to charge, 40-50 minutes total
Bolt – 1 stops to charge, 20-30 minutes

350 mile trip:
IONIQ – 4+ stops to charge, 60-90 minutes total
Bolt – 1-2 stops to charge, 60 minutes total

With the faster charge (averaging 70 kW, 4.5 miles per minute), the IONIQ can catch up over a longer trip. It’s simply far less convenient and requires more exotic infrastructure that doesn’t exist today.

There is no clear timeline for when that infrastructure will be commonly available, either.

Range matters slightly less then ubiquity of charging stations and their speed. If I can drive like 1.5 hours and then fill up 20 minutes and continue I won’t really care about the range of my vehicle.

So it will depend on price and what are the offered charging options to decide what to buy.

This vehicle might make an interesting turn of events reality. I think some German research already showed that the availability of chargers matters more then the range. This will be increasingly true when the charging speed goes up.

GM better put a 100kw charger in their car otherwise it might not sell many bolts..

Disregarding the model 3 here, I know. Perhaps nobody will sell much except tesla anyway..

I think there is a cut off for the minimum amount of range needed to have a realistic density of 100 kW chargers that can be reached across a wide range of weather and temperature variations for travel between cities.

A 200+ mile EV will realistically give you at least at a minimum 150 miles of range in most weather and temperature scenarios. Even then chargers would need to be placed 120 miles apart which would require quite a bit more density than what Tesla provides with its Supercharger network.

With the Ioniq’s 110 maximum range you could expect a reasonable minimum of 80-85 miles in most weather and temperature scenarios. So realistically you would need a nationwide network along all interstates that would have DC chargers 60-70 miles apart.

Plus there are no 100 kW CCS chargers available now and none planned in the near future so it will likely not impact short term sales positively or negatively of either upcoming EV model.

According to fastned my country should be full of those faster chargers the moment they are available to them. So the Netherlands does have plans for that. I’m more worried about the rest of EU though… that’s where my tesla story comes to play.

Also the low range in cold weather scenario doesn’t really apply here and I don’t really see myself driving far east or north during winter season.

This, if Tesla can get the reliability right on the Model 3 these other cars won’t have a chance. As I have said before, Tesla has a luxury cache’ that Hyundai and Chevrolet do not. If Model 3 price is similar to Bolt, most people will go Model 3.

Funny. Not sure how to respond. Of course a luxury version of a vehicle would be preferable at the same price. However, that never happens. In practice, at the same price point vehicles from luxury lines are always inferior to vehicles from the non-luxury brands. Given that GM has a huge cost advantage because of scale, the Model 3 will cost more or won’t match the Bolt EV on other parameters. (Tesla has already said $35K will not be the price “at first” so it should be clear how this will work out). The other disadvantage is coming out with a sedan body when the market has already made clear a preference for CUV bodies. A 200+ mile BEV-CUV will appeal to families owning single family homes and multiple vehicles. A small sedan BEV not so much. That’s more a vehicle for younger workers in cubicles who live in condos and apartments, and at this point there isn’t a lot of infrastructure supporting these type of owners. And yes reliability will be an issue. Hard to believe we’ll see anything major on this front until we stop hearing about how the reliability problems are all due to a few issues… Read more »

I have a lot of respect for GM making a real EV. If they don’t get a real fast charger in the car and some kind of charging network, it will hurt their sales especially when compared to Tesla’s super charger network. In terms of reliability, not sure that any generalizations can be made, have seen reliable low cost cars and reliable high cost cars and every combination in between. Tesla has definitely had challenges just as most young companies do (e.g Hyundai ). Model 3 will have a lot of lessons learned from Model S and X. As one who has been in technology a long time, I am betting on Tesla, because they are the only company I see that understands all of the necessary elements of success.

You keep writing about scale advantage, but when it comes to BEVs, what matters most for cost is the electric powertrain, and the scale advantage is with the company that uses more of those components. Right now, no company is building a lot of BEVs, and GM is not exactly being ambitious with the Bolt. Tesla currently buys lots more cells, makes more plug-ins than GM, and wants to scale production to a much higher volume.

Where exactly is the huge scale advantage GM will have?

How do you think Tesla will get from the (base) Model S @ $75K to the (base) Model 3 @ $35K (ignoring incentives as they don’t affect manufacturing cost)?
The smaller size will save some materials cost, sure, but they’ll also need to cut many features, besides the single-motor 2WD they’ve already mentioned.

I expect less performance, less range than the S (just above 200, most likely), a smaller LCD screen, no fancy door handles, less sensors, and less sophisticated SW. And of course, no supercharger access for the base price — there’ll be extra-cost usage plans, but no unlimited once.

Bottom line, there’s not going to be features that provide “a luxury cachet” in the base price.

And it wont be made from aluminium… will be standard steel… way cheaper

In my driving profile I will never need a fast charger.
I’ll be able to recharge the car once a week.

200 miles of EV range is really a revolution.

If you charge once a week with 200 miles range, that’s 29 miles per day. You can get by with far cheaper EV. Used Leaf will plunge in price, and even worn out battery would meet your needs.

If you can’t charge at home (if you have to park in the street, for example), 200 mile range and being able to go a week between charges means that an EV is actually usable compared to an ICE.

EV without home charging doesn’t make sense, especially as “mass market”. One wouldn’t spend 9 hours at public L2 (most are limited to 6.6kW) or hour or more at DCFC while paying more than gas car that gets 30 MPG (or 11 MPG at some ridiculously priced DCFC stations).

Or even 1.5hrs+ at a supercharger once a week to charge their Tesla from near zero to near 100%.

Interesting point. If Supercharging is free, it could make it attractive for apt dwellers.

But my point about Bolt was that fast charging could be more expensive than gas cars _and_ less convenient, then why bother? Same argument can be made about FCEV; if more expensive than gas cars to “fill up”, why bother? Just get gas car.

But with Nissan’s No Charge to Charge program, apartment dwellers could lease a 200 mile EV for 2 years, charge for free once a week, and would be just fine. What if Chevy comes out with it’s own version of NCTC for the Bolt, or what if Nissan releases a 200 mile Leaf? Lots of things will happen over the next 24 months that could make EVs more practical for a much larger portion of the population.

What a ridiculous plug/port/whatever. I cannot imagine how automakers would have ever been satisfied with it from the beginning. I guess, if they want to scare of people from buying their EVs, then these large, intimidating plugs would help a little.

Tesla’s solution is compact and efficient – an elegant solution, which I would expect from genuine innovation.

Yep. Clearly Hyundai went to the same school of EV marketing that Ford went to. ‘How to sell an EV:- Give it a charging plug standard that isn’t supported anywhere in the world’. Brilliant.

Tesla plugs are different in Continental Europe than they are in North America, including the EVSE cord connectors. And if you move a car ‘across the pond’, the car will only charge very slowly in its new location, and then only with a special adapter cable, if they even make them.

The “CCS” is also elegant in the sense that there are only 2 more large pins on the ‘fast charging’ cars than the “level 2” cars.

Since in the states we need the J1772 jack, and Europe needs the Mennekes Jack, there are only 2 extra pins that need to be added for fast charging, unlike the Chademo which is an entirely additional jack. The low-price of a CCS jack will win over the market place, as it is in the process of doing.

CCS seems to be the standard that will win out since it allows such a low priced ‘fast charging’ addition to the basic every day home charging jack.

What is “The low-price of a CCS jack”? Expect CCS plugs are just as costly as CHAdeMO plugs … ie: over $1000 each.

So glad chademo is losing. Really hate that fire hose of a plug. It was always a terrible idea, so clunky. It’s what happens when engineers don’t have a good designer to correct their work.

Have you seen both a CHAdeMO and combo plug side by side? Didn’t think so.

Combo plug is an ugly piece of cancer.

The CCS may be UGLY, but the cost of a CCS jack on the car is much lower than the ‘level 2’ jack AND the Chademo jack on the car.

You have to have the ‘7.2 kw’ jack anyway. So adding 2 extra pins is extra cheap for the car manufacturers, on those vehicles that have the ‘fast charging option’.

If a big clunky plug is your complaint, CCS is not the fix.

Tesla Supercharger is.

In terms of footprint on the car, CCS is 80% of the way there compared to Chademo+J1772. Tesla’s approach requires additional hardware and software with careful engineered failsafes to ensure DC and AC power go to the right places. What happens if that doesn’t work properly? Norwegian supercharger fire? The Tesla connector is an elegant solution, just like automatic door handles and gullwing doors. Really nice if they work as expected, but things go wrong in the real world. It’s a long shot, but my bet is on Model 3 going with CCS, it’ll help keep costs down, and Elon Musk has recently acknowledged he needs to give up on perfection sometimes.

Doesnt help at all that car is capable of 100kw dc charging when no such chargers exist in most places, esp USA.
Most CCS units are 50kw or 25kw

Maybe, they are looking ahead.

Likewise, a 100kW wouldn’t help at all because there currently are no cars that can charge on CCS at over 50kW. See what I did there? Progress like this has to start somewhere…

The bigger surprise here is that this 28kWh battery seems to support faster charging than the Bolt’s ~60kWh.

IIRC, the shop manual for my 2016 Kia Soul EV says it can charge at 100kW and it only has a ~30kWh (27kWh useable) battery.

69kW seems to be max for the Soul EV. Impressive none the less.

So for the 2017 model year in the U.S. market we’ll have these CCS cars:

BMW i3
Chevy Bolt EV
Ford Focus EV (low volume)
Hyundai Ioniq
VW eGolf

And the 2017 CHAdeMO cars:

Nissan Leaf
Kia Soul EV (low volume, could go CCS)
Mitsubishi i (effectively no volume)

2018 model year adds these CCS cars:

Audi Q6 eTron
Mercedes-Benz EV (first of four?)

Wild cards:

2018 M.Y. Honda BEV (anyone know what Honda supports?)
Fiat 500e refresh (FCA supports CCS)
Volvo BEV (Volvo supports CCS)
Ford BEV (Ford supports CCS)

I smell a trend here and I bet if Kia does a BEV Niro it’ll be CCS given that it comes off the same line and uses the same platform as the Ioniq.

Honda supports CCS.

Putting chargers at dealers is a mistake. There is nothing to do while you wait… who wants to lurk around a car dealership?

Car dealers exist to extract maximum profits. They are therefore only in populated areas. How are drivers of this car supposed to cross the country? There will be wide open spaces across the country with no dealerships… and nowhere to charge.

Put the chargers at freeway rest stops, small country towns, and other places that are open 24-7 and have food & restrooms handy.

Yup, and, if you’re Ford, have each stall with a well lit, good sized FORD logo on it. If you’re GM, have a big, well lit GM logo on it, etc etc.
They could all use their advertising budgets to do it. What better way to advertise for the coming electric revolution???
These companies just aren’t serious.

Hyundai has not abandoned CHAdeMO. Hyundai IONIQ has CHAdeMO in Korea.

With the two leading Korean brands, Hyundai and Kia, both using CHAdeMO, it’s pretty much nailed. CHAdeMO is THE standard in Korea.

We’re talking about North America and Europe, not Korea, so what’s your point?

It pretty clear that the trend is to combine both CHAdeMO and CCS at each electron pump in North America and Europe.

Yes, CHAdeMO grossly outnumbers CCS stations, and CHAdeMO capable cars are ridiculously lopsided to favor CHAdeMO, but that is where it’s all headed.

You continue to bury your head in the sand. Despite the incessant chest-pounding and rant, your beloved CHADEMO is gradually going to be displaced by the single receptacle SAE standard in Europe and elsewhere. The writing is on the wall, all you need to do is read.

Expect a new standard to be unveiled in next couple years that only uses 2-3 pins (2 DC) and makes use of wireless communication between a charger and PEV.

Not only wireless communication will reduce size and cost of the connector plug/socket, it reduces need for custom wire and could support any communication protocol. (ie: using software vs plug pins to define protocol functionality.

A direct connection is required for DC (2-wires) to enable maximum power at the lowest cost.

Adapters to CCS and CHAdeMO will enable PEVs with the huge plugs to use the new higher power chargers. Size and cost of adaptors will be similar to Tesla’s current CHAdeMO adaptor.