Hyundai Can’t Ship You That Promised Kona Electric Due To Crazy Demand

FEB 21 2019 BY DOMENICK YONEY 260

Demand is crushing supply.

Although it just sold its first example of the Kona Electric in the U.S., it seems Hyundai has a hit on its hands. And it’s little wonder, seeing as the all-electric crossover tops our list of range-per-purchase-dollar and has been edging out competitors like the Chevy Bolt in road tests. This is, of course, a great thing for the company, but it also creates some problems for some prospective buyers: they aren’t available for purchase from their local dealers in most of the country.

Initially, the plan was to begin initial sales in California and expand to the so-called ZEV states. In their words:

“2019 Kona Electric models will be produced in Ulsan, Korea and will be available in the beginning of 2019, with initial availability in California and subsequently in the ZEV-focused states in the western and northeastern regions of the U.S. market.”

In November, however, hope blossomed for customers nationwide as we heard that the Korean automaker said it will also ship the Kona Electric to dealers in non-ZEV states if they have a “sold order.” The celebrations that followed may have been premature.

A would-be customer reported on the InsideEVs Forum that their attempts to secure a car through local dealers were proving unsuccessful. So, we got in touch with the automaker to see what the situation was. The result? A statement that, at least for now, those in non-ZEV states may be out of luck. Said the company:

“Given the current demand for Kona Electric in California and other ZEV states, we aren’t able to support volume sales in all non-ZEV states at this time. In the near future, we do plan to offer Kona Electric in non-ZEV states that exhibit higher electric vehicle demand.”

With demand crushing the current supply, we have to imagine Hyundai is doing all they can to produce more units. However, supply chains aren’t built or bolstered in a day, and so would-be buyers may have to wait a bit. As their statement suggests, the delay for some in EV-thirsty non-ZEV states may not be too long, so there is hope on the horizon for some. The question now becomes, how many will wait and how many will move on to competitors with available inventory.

 

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260 Comments on "Hyundai Can’t Ship You That Promised Kona Electric Due To Crazy Demand"

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“With demand crushing the current supply, we have to imagine Hyundai is doing all they can to produce more units.” Why would you say that? Hasn’t Hyundai already said that production would be limited? It’s clear that they DO NOT WANT to produce more. Given the specs, price, and great reviews, it is no surprise that demand is high, and no surprise that people in non-CARB states won’t be able to get them.

Is anyone surprised that demand is high? Certainly Hyundai shouldn’t be.

If they used the Bolt EV to measure demand (which is a very similar vehicle) it is fair to say they predicted low demand when they ordered components like batteries. I think they are also using this to make it look like high demand, but they still won’t sell many in the US, a few thousand maybe? It helps them keep prices higher. Bolt EV sells for huge discounts now.

If you only planned on selling 1k a month and demand is 2k then demand is 200% higher than you expect, but still less sales than the Bolt.

Then demand is 100% higher than expected… 😉

If 200% higher then 1k is 2k,
then what is 100% higher then 1k? 🙂

I laughed.

Are you operating in programmer mode?
Rather thAn using an if/then statement, you may have needed to say “200% higher thAn 1k” there, and “100% higher thAn 1k?” thereafter.
😉

You are very wise, I’m a programmer and using the word “then” too often and “than” too little 😀

if that is true,
then stop.
else, don’t.

I must say, I’m fully appreciating (in both senses of the word) all the programmer humor here today! 🙂

(⌐■_■) Trollnonymous

else if…..
screw it, just “Select Case” it……

Yes, but they fixed the Bolts substandard features. Better interior, better seats and a real rear suspension. there should have been an X * 1.2 or X * 1.5 calculation there for demand.

The Kona interior is not nicer to me. I prefer modern style of Bolt EV. The Bolt EV premiere and Kona EV top model version didn’t feel that different when I sat in them back to back at the auto show in Chicago. Material quality is similar.

The Kona EV feels more cramped inside too. I don’t have enough headroom with sunroof in Kona, and back seat is really short on legroom if front seat is back. Bolt EV is roomier.

I like the Kona EV perfectly fine, and features like ACC and faster charging are nice vs Bolt EV, but I wouldn’t pay much more for it.

Others who might want to use the full Fed rebate ($7.5k), might pay about roughly the same come April. Plus the below review might sway some others.

https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/comparison-test/a26425957/2019-chevrolet-bolt-ev-vs-2019-hyundai-kona-electric/?utm_campaign=socialflowTWCD&utm_source=twitter&utm_medium=social-media&src=socialflowTW

That review is pretty weak and makes me want a Tesla more (as even they say). Also, I suspect if they paid much less for Bolt EV it might sway opinion. I like both Bolt EV and Kona just fine, don’t see them as $45k cars.

To be fair though, I also don’t see Teslas as $45k cars since it’s well known that their fit and finish is very subpar and they tend to cut corners in manufacturing.

Aside from the youthful vs mature styling difference, if we were just looking at quality, the Kona would probably be more deserving of an expensive price tag. Plus, it seems like the review was only saying not to cancel the reservation due to waiting times, not because of any car related issues.

Let’s also keep in mind, however, that the Kona is likely smaller on inside than the Bolt. Also, it doesn’t turn heads like Teslas do, doesn’t have access to the supercharger network like Teslas have, and isn’t available in the US in a variety of versions (e.g. different battery sizes, FWD vs AWD etc) as Teslas are. My guess would be the Kona EV will sell in the US in the same numbers as the Bolt, that is if it ever becomes widely available – unlike the poor Ioniq, who is very popular globally, but struggled to sell more than a few dozen copies a month in 2018 in the US.

That’s because the Ioniq has only been available in tiny (300+per year) numbers and only in L.A.

I test drove my first Kona EV yesterday. It doesn’t in any way shape or form compare to the quality or drive of a Tesla. The Kona EV has a decent amount of Torque, but it is not sure footed, and flops around considerably at fwy speeds. It’s not in anyway A luxury car or a head turner. You get what you pay for , for sure, and the kona EV is grossly overpriced for what it is.

When they fix the plastic interior? It doesn’t even have a sunroof

I think you might have it backward, they didn’t use the Bolt to measure demand, they used the Bolt as a model for their sales strategy. GM isn’t interested in selling any more Bolts that it needs for CARB credits that’s why they’ve spent a grand total of $0 marketing it, if they had wanted to sell more they could have but the Bolt isn’t profitable on it’s own so they keep the numbers down. The Kona is very similar to the Bolt and it sells for the same price so there is no reason to believe that it’s any more profitable for Hyundai than the Bolt is for GM as such they are making the same calculation. Sell enough to get the ZEV credits that they need and not one car more. If anything Hyundai is being a little more up front about it then GM, they’ve explicitly said that it will only be available in CARB states, GM never said that out loud.

Because GM loses money on each one.

You are spot on Mark. It is a big conspiracy. Traditional ICE car manufacturers just hate producing EV cars because it prevents them from making easy profits.

Maybe you are attempting to be sarcastic and missed the target. But do you actually believe that EVs are “easy profits” for ICE automakers? No, you can be assured that Hyundai and Kia are losing money on every EV sold, just like GM and just like Audi, and so on. Until traditional automakers start building their own battery plants, they will be paying those battery suppliers plenty, as they watch their profits evaporate.

If they’re losing money then they signed BAD Battery Contracts.
Why is it that ONLY TESLA can successfully build an EV? Magic?
or Desire?
I’m thinking it isn’t MAGIC when everyone can see what you’re doing.
So, yeah, a conspiracy of the incompetent? Or a conspiracy of the oil cartel.

Still looks like GM’s attempts to lower EPA requirements and GM’s inability to compete, and the drop of the Volt, that yes these CEO’s are getting an OIL KICKBACK. Too bad the Justice Department never targets the real conspiracies. Let’s not forget that it’s a global phenomenon of car companies fighting efficiency standards.

Only One Company in the World can build Profitable EVs?

“Only One Company in the World can build Profitable EVs?”

Yes. For now, and until automakers build sufficient quantities, these EVs are niche vehicles destined to lose money. Without a commitment to build more, automakers will continue to lose any profits.

But that’s how it works: build in quantity like Tesla, and the per unit costs decreases. So far, automakers have had no incentive to build in quantity because gas cars are profit centers. Gas cars represent billions of dollars in investment, and gas automakers have NO desire to lose those investment dollars. So long as Kia and Hyundai can satisfy CARB minimum sales, there is little incentive to commit to selling EVs.

The premium automakers are starting to panic because of Tesla, but it has not yet trickled down to the lower cost automakers.

Hyundia/KIA are superbly positioned. They are building excellent EV’s at reasonable prices. They have some of the best battery makers in their own country.
They will ride the EV revolution from second on the grid behind Tesla

Too bad they have no intention of offering them in all fifty states.

They’re too busy selling all they can build at higher profits in Asia and Europe.

Then they need to design and build a car which is actually intended to be made in large numbers, and is intended to make a large enough profit margin for Hyundai to actually want to make and sell the car.

Doesn’t look to me like the Kona Electric is that car. If that’s right, then we’ll have to wait for Hyundai to design and build something else.

I’m not even sure Tesla is profitable building EV’s. They have made a profit, but they have had to pull out all stops to get there. Making EV’s to compete with ICE vehicles at this point will be a low margin business until EV components match ICE pricing.

Buy yourself better glasses, then read what You just wrote. Then go to Apotheke for some short memory boosters. Right now you write that Tesla is not selling cars at a profit because they turn a profit when they only sell cars…

“They have made a profit, but they have had to pull out all stops to get there.”

You didn’t finish the sentence.

They have made a profit, but they have had to pull out all stops to get there while still rapidly expanding production capacity every year.

If Tesla was content to be an auto maker no bigger than, for example, Porsche, then they could stop growing right now and be consistently profitable.

“…build in quantity like Tesla…”

Other automakers should be able to shoot higher than that, and hit the target.

Actually Ford, GM and FCA can’t really make money on conventional CARS which is why they are dropping most of them to concentrate on SUVs, “crossovers” and the almighty pickup truck. Roughly two million full size pickups in USA per year. Plus mid size ones, Tacoma, Colorado, Canyon and now Ranger, another 500k+. That’s where their earnings mostly come from. Mostly they drive around carrying air.

I have this thing. It seems like nothing was happening on the EV front until TESLA. That company kidded the American and for the most part (excluding Nissan) automakers into gear. I feel a kind of loyalty though I am waiting impatiently (here in Canada) to get a model 3. I’d like to reward this maverick.

Tesla’s still $5B in the hole yaknow

They have nearly 4bil in the bank!

If your home loan was 250k and you had 150k in the bank and a strong income stream. How would you feel?

Have you checked America’s debt lately.

“We can always print more. Someone will always buy the T Bills!”
Sarc/

Company != Country

Tesla has 13 billion in debt, which is about 50% of expected 2019 revenues. Tesla cash / debt ratio’s are much better than GM and Ford and by the end of 2019 they will look 3 times better. 30% debt ratio to annual revenue compared to 100% in GM’s case.

The fact people believe what others say without some basic analysis leads to misinterpretation of reality. With Tesla’s rapidly rising cash flows, they look very good to continue expanding and drawing down debt for the foreseeable future.

“Only One Company in the World can build Profitable EVs?”

It certainly looks that way. Others will catch up to them, eventually. Also, there is absolutely no guarantee that Tesla can stay profitable, now that they “have” to start selling the TM3 at lower prices and have to invest into new fabs, new models etc.

“Only One Company in the World can build Profitable EVs?”

Which company is that?

The only magic IS that Tesla doesn’t have to think about anything else other than batteries.
Being distracted by a dying technology that you are fully invested in would be really depressing.

“Only One Company in the World can build Profitable EVs?”

There are a large number of companies profitably selling EVs around the world today. The number is swelling quickly in fact. The more successful ones are going to be able to pick up all the capacity they need for pennies on the Dollar.

“If they’re losing money then they signed BAD Battery Contracts.
Why is it that ONLY TESLA can successfully build an EV? Magic?
or Desire?”

You don’t understand the reality of designing and building cars. Designing a model of car to be profitable means aiming for the lowest unit cost on every part in the car. That’s how an auto maker makes a unit profit off selling cars in volume, despite high development and tooling-up costs.

Contrariwise, for a car intended to be sold in low numbers, such as a “compliance car”, the auto maker will focus not on a low unit price for each part, but rather on reducing the cost of development and tooling-up. The auto maker figures they’ll lose less money that way on the entire run.

Did Hyundai design the Kona Electric to actually make a profit on volume sales? Or is it just another compliance car, not intended to make a profit no matter how many are sold?

I don’t know, but given the very limited availability, I’m guessing the latter. And if so, we can’t expect Hyundai to crank up the production to any significant extent; they would just be losing more money.

I totally agree. It has been hugely challenging for Tesla to reach profitability and the rest will face years of pain while they get their EV technology and costs down. It’s the biggest reason why Tesla is ahead – the can grow as fast as they like now and will make billions in the process. The ICE manufacturers cant until they find a way of making the numbers work. Tesla will no doubt eat their lunch while they do this but the bigger risk is that the Chinese companies will get there first and flood the market before they are ready to respond.

Tesla setting up in a big way in China will help improve Chinese BEV manufacture generally to global quality levels. Those cars will invade the US inevitably.

This is a result of Trump’s policies. He gave Tesla no other choice.

Now Trump is attacking the legacy car industry in the US by undermining efforts they are making to reduce carbon emissions and follow the global trend away from fossil fuel use.

Trump will be the downfall of the US!

I disagree. The reduction in business taxes helps companies like Tessa. Obama was destroying manufacturing. Trump should revise the federal ev incentives to a grand total for all manufacturers rather than a fixed number for each manufacturer. This would help domestic ev producers to stay ahead.

How does lower taxes on business profits help Tesla? Throughout their history they have shown only tiny profits.

“Obama was destroying manufacturing.”

Well, President Obama didn’t run around the country trying to take credit for plans that manufacturers already had for creating manufacturing jobs, as the Orange One is doing… if that’s what you mean.

Some of us think that actual reality is more important than the show… contrary to how a “reality TV” star behaves.

Too bad you’ve been taken in by the show. P.T. Barnum may have coined the phrase “There’s a sucker born every minute”, but the Orange One makes Barnum look like a sideshow huckster.

“Tesla setting up in a big way in China will help improve Chinese BEV manufacture generally to global quality levels.”

No, it won’t. The problem with inconsistent quality in Chinese manufacturing, and even worse, the problem of rampant fraud, with an ingrained cultural attitude among Chinese businessmen of “anything we can do to cheat the customer is okay if we can get away with it”, isn’t going to disappear just because Tesla starts building cars in China.

China needs to develop a culture of business ethics, as well as consistent quality control in manufacturing, before they will be able to successfully compete in selling cars in first-world countries.

“Tesla setting up in a big way in China will help improve Chinese BEV manufacture generally to global quality levels. Those cars will invade the US inevitably.”

Hope not. The Chinese are infamous for being constant IP thieves, and that is very hurtful to companies who pour in a ton of money and time into R&D. That kind of stealing or copying is not something I think any of us wants to reward.

He said EVs prevent them from making easy profits.

“Traditional ICE car manufacturers just hate producing EV cars”

Except Chevy. Chevy produced 3,141,593 Bolts last year, but people only bought about 20,000 of them. Chevy had to sell many with huge discounts and send much of the rest to car heaven.

Chevy produced 2,718,282 Bolts so far this year (produced over million EV per month), but people only bought about 3,000 of them despite huge discounts that make them cheaper than any comparable gasser, few thousand sitting on dealer lots, all the rest waiting to replenish unsold dealer stock.

In contrast, Tesla only made about 100,000 EV, sold out unwilling to meet the demand. Tesla hates producing EV!

Markus Scarth Tønseth

Where on earth do you get those numbers from? As far as I’ve been able to find out, Chevy produces between 20000 and 30000 Bolts per year. That’s nowhere near your million per month.

20K to 30K are the number of Bolts people bought, not the actual number produced. From almost billion Bolts produced, almost all are sent to car heaven due to people not buying them.

An interesting question to ponder, is car heaven endothermic or exothermic?

You sure it was only a Billion, sounds a little low.

I think he’s trying for sarcastic humor, but he doesn’t seem to grasp the concept that sarcasm is only funny if it makes a point.

Bolt EV must be Trump. He’s the only one the only one that rambles on a pack of lies like that.

While Chevy makes Millions of Bolts, they still Screw most Buyers, though!
/S 😂

Yep – it’s not like they’re in business to actually make money or anything like that.

i just cancelled a canadian reservation:too small,cramped inside,no 4 wheel drive,very conservative interieur,and pretty high price!!!

The headline is very misleading. 400K pre-orders for the Tesla Model 3 is what crazy demand looks like and Tesla is doing everything in it’s power to satisfy that demand.

400k preorders is what happens when you promise a $35k BEV, which seemed too good to be true at the time.
And it was.
The demand is now going down and likely much lower in europe than they expected. If they can’t deliver that promised cheaper car soon, they might have a problem.

Okay, sales are past 200K now, with another 250-300K expected this year: that’s what it looks like when serious supply meets serious demand.

“The demand is now going down…”

Riiiiiiight. According to Tesla bashers, the demand is always going down. Funny how Tesla’s sales keep growing so rapidly every year, with all that falling demand… 🙄

Is anybody surprised to see that Tesla is doing the same in the European market as they did in North America? They’re exhausting demand for high-margin Model 3s before they start offering the cheaper version. It’s still a long way to the $35K base model. First they’ll re-introduce the rear engine LR model, then perhaps the midrange, then the SR with Premium interior + Enhanced Autopilot …

Everything EXCEPT produce the mythical $35,000 Model 3, which represents the bulk of those pre-orders.

Exactly. Global shipments dropped to 3000 in January (from 5000 in November and December) with reports of year long wait times all over the world. This means they either cant produce more (eg due to battery constraints) or wont produce more because they arent making any money on the car. I would be pleasantly surprised if they sell more than 60,000 in 2019.

Are you talking about Tesla? They will sell 200k+ (maybe 300k) model 3 in 2019 world wide.

Here in Pennsylvania, I’ll only see one online.

In 20-20 hindsight, everything looks like it should have been obvious.

Your assertion that Hyundai doesn’t want to produce more is silly.

“It’s clear that they DO NOT WANT to produce more.”

That’s quite a reach in logic. All you know is that Hyundai production will be “limited”. You haven’t provided any proof or even evidence that the limitation is due to a lack of wanting.

“It’s clear that they DO NOT WANT to produce more.”

I don’t think it’s clear at all. You can’t just tell suppliers to double or quadruple an order overnight. In particular, you can’t just tell your battery cell supplier you want to double the order starting in a month or two. The response will almost certainly be “Sure, we can substantially increase the supply… in about two years, after we have had time to build out more production capacity.”

Now, that’s not to to say that you must be wrong. If the Kona Electric was designed to be a mere compliance car, then it was designed for low cost in development and tooling up, rather than for low unit cost. That would mean it’s not intended to make a unit profit… in which case, Hyundai would have absolutely no incentive to increase production.

But I have no idea which is the case, and I doubt you do either.

The dealerships in California/ Los Angeles are now marking up the Kona EV to 64K!! Ridiculous! It may save money on gas, but it’s not worth it! It drives like a cheap car

I think we’re seeing a pattern here. Automakers’ new longer range EV offerings are all massively supply constrained. I wonder if any of the major automakers are truly understanding the gravity of the situation. I think companies like VW are definitely committed to investing in making a line of EVs this next decade but looking at Tesla’s growth and then looking at each others EV offerings all having huge pre-order wait lists they all should all be having an all hands on deck moment.

As I have mentioned, any automaker can make a few good looking, long range, low cost EVs. The automaker bites the bullet, loses money on each build and makes lots of free advertising. Hyundai and Kia never had the commitment to build large quantities of EVs. That commitment takes the building of infrastructure to supply batteries. Without the batteries, there is no supply to meet demand.

Until an automaker is willing to commit to 100,000 EVs worldwide, they are just kicking the can down the road while continuing to sell gassers.

Yep, its all in the batteries. Big auto just don’t get it… there will be a demand for EV’s if you build it. The more batteries you make, better economies of scale you’ll have. Big auto needs to adapt to 2170 NMC standard cell. Partner to create capacity to terawatt hour level.

And always remember, their competition is not against Tesla or any other just EV maker CO. It’s against their own ICE models and dealerships. The transition is going to be very hard on them.

What they really don’t get, is people see a Kona Electric and think “I want one,” but they can’t get one, so they think “I’ll just wait a bit until they get here,” but since the volume was never intended to scale, they never get there. The auto-market is going to be crushed by people with money in hand waiting for the cars they want, driving old beaters they would’ve replaced years ago, and no one buying the ICE cars on the lots.

Yep. The only genuine non-Tesla EV programmes capable of selling than many cars are the Leaf and the Chinese. The rest are still planning to only get serious for the next product cycle in 5 years or so. That will be too late in my opinion. Tesla will be producing millions of cars by then and the Chinese will be flooding the market. For a lot of companies import tariffs could be the only thing to save them.

Last year Tesla produced 60% of the entire planets lithium Ion battery supply. Legacy can pump out shells by the millions. They just are all fighting like 10 piglets on 8 teets for battery supply. The infrastructure doesn’t exist to produce double the global supply and throwing money at it doesn’t make it magically appear. From the lithium mines to the battery cell manufacturers…it just doesn’t exist in that size….yet. There are plenty of companies throwing billions to build it out and it WILL grow. It will take years and the battery supply will lag sales demand for years to come.

Everyone is thinking about building cars and no one is building batteries. Pure stupidity. Big Auto = Big Fail.

Not quite. China is building enormous amounts of battery supply and I read on here they will soon have capacity for 10 million EVs a year. They will start flooding international markets sooner than people think.

Chinese made EV batteries may indeed soon flood the international market.

But China’s auto industry is seriously crippled by regional/ local protectionist regulations and corruption, and efforts by the central Chinese government to correct that situation have mostly failed. Between that situation and the practice of Chinese manufacturers to compete in finding new ways to cheat the customer, it looks to me like it may be a long time before Chinese auto makers will be able to compete in the new car market in first-world countries.

Maybe they can sell in India and other regions with little or no safety standards in cars.

“Tesla produced 60% of the entire planets lithium Ion battery supply.”

Panasonic/Tesla made less than 25% of EV batteries last year. Look up SNE research for actual data. Tesla’s claim excludes PHEVs, BEV buses, etc. And even then it’s not 60%. It might have hit 50% briefly in Q3.

Batteries are such a major component by value of an electric car, that legacy motor manufactures will need to get directly involved in battery making to able to retain their profit margins on that percentage of the vehicles overall value.

I dickered my 2018 LEAF to almost $5000 off MSRP; I imagine car biz people greatly prefer people paying MSRP, lol.

$5000 off (plus 0% for 72mo) made my 150 mile BEV a much better buy than the alternatives selling at MSRP.

As long as the battery SOH holds up, I guess…

That means supply is greater than demand. There will be a markup for Kona and Niro for the foreseeable future. I am hoping Leaf E-Plus supply is healthy… it’ll be a much better alternative to Kona and Niro.

How long ago did you get that deal? Given that no EV other than a Tesla is really suitable for road trips, the 40kWh Leaf looks pretty good to me. I would charge 90+% of total kWh on level 2 and live in mild coastal Calif. The Kona and Niro will be in tiny numbers for a long time I suspect making discounts unlikely and the Leaf is a much nicer CAR than the Bolt. I think the Leaf remains a good choice for the kind of use that EVs are best for (relatively local and in town/city). I don’t do much drag racing so 8 or 9 seconds to 60 mph is crazy wild to me.

Just think of it as the Promised 100 Mile Range Leaf from 2010, with a few extra Bonus Mike’s, for the first few years, and it won’t be so traumatic as they age and reduce range! 😁

Well, there really aren’t any competitors right now if you don’t want to compromise on options or price. Still it might be a couple of years before we get a decent supply of Kona Electrics. Anything could happen by time happen by the time supply catches up to demand.

I wouldn’t say no competitors. A Model 3 at $36,450 will be here way before most people could buy a Kona Electric. At $42,900, I think the current one is a lot of features, performance, prestige, and resale value that the Kona Electric dosen’t have.

Biggest bummer is the $1,500 to $2,500 you must pay for non black paint and $1,100 for non black upholstery. $2,000 for white paint (my preference) is an insult to my intelligence and enough to make me say no when I might say yes. Lighter, but not stark white upholstery at no added cost would be nice too.

I keep thinking back to when Tesla announced the Gigafactory and everyone thought they were crazy. Is there really that much demand for these EVs?!? Why not just outsource the battery components?!? This is an expensive white elephant that will sink Tesla!!

And here we are…so little long range EV competition for Tesla and even when a company has a good EV to build, they can’t build it because they don’t have the batteries!

Tesla took a big risk and built the Gigafactory…and now they have 80% of the pure EV market. And no one can even compete with them since they lack the batteries.

Where is the evidence that they can’t get enough batteries? Tesla doesn’t have 80% of the market because of their batttery supply. Tesla has 80% of the market because they are a hip, cool company that makes hi-tech, fast, sexy cars that people desire. Hyundai makes more money making gas cars than EVs. They don’t WANT to make more EVs.

“Where is the evidence that they can’t get enough batteries?”

This is a serious question? Do you actually think that the battery supply is sufficient for any automaker other than Tesla? LG builds most of the automotive batteries in the world. LG can’t make enough to satisfy demand. That’s a fact.

To compound the battery supply issue, now LG has threatened VW that LG will shut off VW’s current battery supply if VW starts building their own battery manufacturing. Expect this threat from LG against every other automaker that uses its supply.

where did you hear that LG threatened that?
If so, that means that ALL of those legacy automakers are in deep trouble.

electrive (dot) com/2019/02/21/volkswagen-battery-production-blocked-by-competition/

Wow! If true, that is a very serious situation.

I’ve been saying for years that legacy auto makers need to build out battery cell production which they control, rather than leaving themselves at the mercy of what the battery cell makers are willing to supply. If this is true — and I hope it’s not — then I was far more right than I realized!

With GM and Ford leaving cars, for trucks, SUVs and CUVs (accept Bolt, Mustang and few others), there must already be a plan to buy credits in ZEV states, or other methods to fully meet CAFE’s weaker “light truck” regs. This all rolls up to this week’s news, about Federal and CARB state(s) emissions standards. They won’t buy credits if they can step on states rights, and tell California and a third of the market what to do.

To sell even more trucks, maybe those 25% tariffs on imported cars will go into effect. They have it all figured out. The chess pieces are in position.

“LG builds most of the automotive batteries in the world”

LG is well behind Panasonic, BYD and CATL. They are in the second tier, with Samsung and another Chinese company whose name I forget at the moment.

Also, maybe Nissan’s retention of battery production wasn’t such a bad outcome after all.

Well, Nissan retains only a 25% stake in AESC, so I’m not sure how much they’re going to be dependent on that supplier.

I keep hoping AESC will license better cell chemistry from LG Chem or Samsung or some other leading EV cell manufacturer, but it seems they haven’t. As it is, they appear hopelessly behind in the race for superior EV batteries. 🙁

Yeah, so I guess I should not have criticized Nissan when they announced they were not using LG batteries. If all this battery shortage talk is true, I guess they had no choice.

LG customers need to buy cells or Batteries from LG, at a Rate Higher than they make or Sell EV’s, Stockpiling the Excess, in a First in, First out, rotating inventory, all the while growing the stockpile, and setting funding in a slush fund account, to finally fund their own Battery Plants!

Try buying a Powerwall. VERY limited supply of those, nealy all their production capacity is going to auto cells.

“Where is the evidence that they can’t get enough batteries?”

Seriously? You’ve got to be blind not to see the overwhelming amount of evidence. VW has had to go to multiple battery cell suppliers for their near-term (2-4 years) needs, because no one cell maker can supply the quantity they need. Other EV makers, who haven’t locked in high-volume contracts like VW has, are going to find themselves… well, David Wolff had a good analogy, with too many piglets trying to feed on too few teats. But he got the ratio wrong; he had it as 10 piglets on 8 teats. I think it’s more like 3 teats, aside from the two really big teats that Tesla and BYD have all to themselves.

Listen, regarding everyone’s criticism of my “where’s the evidence” statement, I have read the stories here that there is not an unlimited supply of batteries, or even components of batteries. So, does this mean that we should hear no announcements from automakers of new EVs of moderate quantities because they can’t get the batteries? Is the battery supply that constrained in the world that Hyundai can’t sell 3,000 Konas a month in the US? I guess we won’t see any E-Niros then. Where are all the stories from the automakers saying – yeah, we would prefer to sell EVs vs. ICE, but the battery supply is preventing them from doing that? On the other hand, I could definitely see automakers using it as an excuse for not selling as many low profit vehicles. Is there a bidding war going on right now between automakers to LG for their batteries? All I’m saying is that the amount of Hyundai Konas that are made are a tiny percentage of battery demand. I don’t buy the reason they won’t supply more Konas is that they can’t get the batteries. The simpler, seemingly more logical reason is that they would rather make more money… Read more »

CRAZY DEMAND for EV..love it

Someone should notify GM pronto before its too late

GMs supply of Bolts on Dealer Lots is enough of a sign.

Have you seen the Bolt? LoL

I think the days of car manufacturers saying, “Since this is an EV we have to make it look unbelievable idiotic to appeal to the green crowd” are over. lol

How do you explain the Model X or the Tesla pickup?

what pickup? The one that was designed by fans?

Did you know that Model X is the quickest sell of all used cars?

The Model X has the front end like a Porsche Cayenne and the back end like a BMW X6. That’s unbelievable idiotic?

Nobody outside Tesla has seen their pickup design. What’s to “explain”?

And I have no idea what you mean by “explain” the Model X. Sales are doing pretty well, and the Model X has appeared on Consumer Reports‘ top 10 list for customer satisfaction.

It’s the legacy auto makers who need to explain why they do so poorly with EV designs.

The Bolt was designed not to sell. GM just wanted to let you know they tried. The money is in big trucks

IMHO Bolt looks fine. I have driven hatchbacks before, easy parking and surprisingly roomy inside. I don’t really see why CUV styling looks any better. Unfortunately I GM stopped selling Bolt in europe (Known as Opel Ampera-e here). The next Zoe and I.D neo will sell well here – assuming they sort out their battery supply chain.

GM sells the Bolt EV in all 50 states at least. Kia strips important features from the Kona in the US and only sells in select states. Way to go Kia.

Kia sells all over the world, GM does not.

A large portion of Bolt EV sales are from Korea, but since Kia is selling this model world wide they should be making 100,000 or more of them not 20,000 or 30,000

VW has a similar car coming, the ID Neo, but offers 125 kW charging, more range, and plans to make over 100,000 of them in year 1, at the same time likely be cheaper than Kona. They know how to do this.

Go to a ZEV state and order the car and pick it up when it’s delivered

Can you do that? I live in AZ and want a Kona. Can I just fly to CA and pick it up if I order over the phone?

There is a drawback from taking delivery inside of CA. You will have to pay the full CA taxes to CA. Some states will give you a tax credit for your state taxes when you register your car. I don’t know if AZ is one of those states.

The other alternative is to have the car delivered to your home in AZ.

bro1999 has experience with doing that with a Bolt to the east coast from the west coast when the Bolt first came out. It is up to each dealership on whether they want to deal with shipping to other states, so you might have to call a few. bro1999 might have more advice he might have to offer.

Ouch! Didn’t know that about CA! I’ve bought out of state from PA, NV and NJ and always paid the sales tax when registering at Ohio BMV.

Buying a car in one State and having it delivered to another is a briar patch full of pitfalls. Be sure you know exactly how your State deals with allowances for taxes paid to the other State before making any buying decision.

Hopefully you can arrange to have the car transported to a local dealer near where you live. Arranging for transport yourself can get expensive. As you say, flying there and driving it back yourself might be a better choice.

Ohio baby

Not going to California. New York and New Jersey is near by from Ohio

Don’t assume you can get one in CA, they will likely be few and far between for at least a year or two.

Yes, but I think California will charge you sales tax in addition to AZ taxes

If you register it in CA you will pay the tax (called a sales and use tax). I don’t know if you could buy it, register it in your other state, get your plates and documents and drive it home. I imagine you could buy it and truck it home on a trailer or flatbed.

Yes you can.

I suspect if you need any service, they will have to put it on a flatbed truck and send it to a ZEZ state dealer. A Kia EV should fair slightly better in that there are couple of non-ZEV states with dealers that can service a Kia EV, Puget Sound dealers in Washington state for example.

If the dealer services PHEVs, they will be able to service EVs.

That’s a glittering generality. I don’t know how Kia does it, but for other legacy auto makers, the service shop has to be specially certified, and EV charging equipment has to be installed at the dealership, before they are allowed to sell or service BEVs.

Nope. They have to honor the warranty system and laws

That’s how I got my Ioniq EV, although I didn’t have to order it.

I drove 5 hours to MD and brought the car back to PA (towed, actually, since there is too big of a CCS charger gap on that journey). The local Hyundai dealer claims they can service it.

Can’t wait for EA to close that gap

So….never.

Something to consider if you are going to purchase out of state is whether the Hyundai dealer(s) where you live is (are) trained and able to provide service. Hopefully, service won’t be required, but you never know.

I live in Ohio which is not a ZEV credit state, yet there are several GM dealers within 20 minutes of where I live are qualified to service Bolts. I was able to purchase a Bolt at a decent discount off the lot of a dealer 20 miles from here in November 2017. Granted there were only two Bolts on the lot, but none the less they were available even in Ohio. I doub’t we will see any Konas here for another year.

What part of Ohio. Here in Lorain Elyria area

If they can service a bolt they can service a ev

There’s 5 Bolts at Sunnyside in Elyria Ohio, not including the use one

I also want one!

(⌐■_■) Trollnonymous

Let’s wait and see how the DCFC is on taper. That’s kind of my thing when people ask.
If it is worse than the bolt, then I will recommend the bolt first……lol

If I had to chose today, I would stick with what I bought a year ago—a Chevrolet Bolt EV Premier.

I’ve wondered what gives with all the carping about allegedly awful seats in the Bolt. I was expecting something horrible, but the Bolt seats seem fine to me – and I’m about 6 feet, 2 inches and over 200 pounds. I had a Bolt for over a year and no problems. I have to admit I’ve only experienced the “premiere” version of the Bolt. The cheaper trim was not in stock at the time I got my Bolt. Maybe the cheap seats are worse.

I have only had the opportunity to see the Kona in print so far, and I don’t think I’ll like the Kona’s large center console. It reminds me of the newer Prius which I’ve rented a few times – and the Prius bugs me because my right leg is jammed up against the console. Again, on paper, the Bolt seems to have more leg room for the back passengers than the Kona.

From all I’ve read about the situation, and I’ve read a lot, there is a complete lack of consistency. Some people report sitting in one Bolt EV and finding the seats comfortable, then switching to another apparently identical one and finding the front seats distinctly uncomfortable.

I’m guessing there are hidden differences; maybe the foam padding used in the seats is from two different sources, with different firmness/density?

Anyway, supposedly GM did finally fix the problem with the new model year Bolt EV… altho I haven’t read any reports from customers trying that out.

They were horrible. I didn’t believe it at first. Took the test drive and bf back was killing him for a week and it was very uncomfortable for me throughout the drive

It’s better than the Bolt. Higher peak charge and doesn’t taper as fast.

For forty more days the bolt can be bought with a BIG dealer discount (at least here in S.F. bay area) and full tax credit.

It peaks a around 73, 74kW starts tapering in steps starting around 58%. TeslaBjorn has some good videos on charging it. Unfortunately it also coldgates, you have to keep the battery warm in cold climates, or you get reduced DC charge speeds.

I told you. They will not produce enough because they want you to buy their gas guzzlers. Another compliance car.
Tesla is our only hope.

Tesla is our only hope if we want to buy a car for more than $43k.

Its always like this. In Norway youll wait for years for this nice little car
It might be that no one, exept Tesla really want to mass produce BEVs
But Hyundai thats such a big company could ramp up to e.g 10.000 a week many times faster than Tesla.. Ehh?
Or could they.

No, because the battery supply simply is not there, and won’t be for quite a while (? years).

Nissan shouldn’t waste their opportunity now. Improve the Leaf and start making new models (pref a AWD suv or crossover, they have nice ICE counterparts since forever).

Yeah…well one just cruised past me today. Caught up to it…Gorgeous!!! So they are shipping and selling them in OR.

No dealers are showing inventory but it had a local dealer license plate holder and the temp sticker on the back window and big ELECTRIC metal plate on the back and those aero mags. Why didn’t Tesla do cool aero mags?

I’d bet pre-orders for the Kona EV and going to be like those for the Model 3.

“I’d bet pre-orders for the Kona EV and going to be like those for the Model 3.”

Let’s not get carried away here. The Kona isn’t what anyone would call cheap, and you can bet that any dealer is marking up the MSRP thousands of dollars. Second, thousands of orders (the pre-orders have gone, sorry you missed it) would be somewhat of a joke considering that Kia AND Hyundai don’t plan on selling more than 30,000 units a year.

You saw…ONE.

That’s irrelevant anecdotal garbage.

No need for such rudeness. Anecdotal evidence isn’t “garbage”; it’s merely statistically insignificant.

Lots of Bolts in stock.

“they aren’t available for purchase from their local dealers in most of the country.”

Wow, I’m shocked. Not.

They just started delivering. The US is woefully behind on EV adoption compared to other areas and the lack of incentives and regulations outside ZEV states means there is little reason for foreign EV makers to waste resources here when they have limited supply that they sell in other markets.

The fifth largest economy in the world is close to 10% EV new car sales (California). How many COUNTRIES have purchased over 500,000 plug ins? I’ll wait.

It’s a canard to keep stating that the US is “woefully behind on EV adoption.” No country comes CLOSE to the US in EV sales. (China has more EV sales, but they include micro EVs which negates the numbers.)

The US as a whole had 1,126,000 plug-in sales (I haven’t found a further breakdown to EV only)
This is compared to the next country, Norway, with 296,515.

Norway has a population of 5.258M. That’s an EV for 5.63% of the pop. US comes in at 0.34%

So Norway practically gives away EVs and has a population less than one quarter the population of the New York metro area. I guess when you take oil wealth and spread it around for everyone to buy an EV you get a rather unique very small country.

What real difference does Norway make in the EV market? Rather than buying EVs with oil money, why doesn’t Norway just stop drilling oil and spreading it around the world?

You obviosly know very little about Norway, oil money and EVs. An BEV Kona costs approx. 38 000 US$ with tha 64 kWh battery fully equipped with extra winter weels. BEV vehicles are completely tax exempt in Norway, but they are not given away. With the same tax levels as ICE cars, the pricetag would have been approx. 54 K $.
Oil income is not “spread around for everyone” but invested in a fund which invests in about 5000 large companies worldwide to ensure that this huge oilbased capital will be used also for the benefit og coming generations.

The real difference that Norway is making in the EV market is that we show other countries in Europe how one can shift from ICE to BEV cars effeciently.

If we stop drilling for oil and gas, will you in the US reduce your consumption accordingly?

Norway, to it’s great credit, taxes motor fuels so that they cost upwards of $10/gal even though they are awash in oil. Their sovereign wealth fund is at about $1 trillion (a million million) or $200k per person. Norway is also awash in hydro-power making EVs especially reasonable. (Anyone know what electricity costs in Norway?) I think blaming oil (and coal, etc.) producers for CO2 emissions is a cop out. It’s us consumers and the demand we create that drive production and consumption. We need a carbon tax (probably combined with a substantial rebate thereof on a per person or similar basis) to reward us for doing the right thing. As an admitted liberal (mostly) it pains me to hear “progressives” blaming oil, coal, gas etc. companies for selling their legal products. Supply follows demand and we (all of us consumers on all levels) are the demand. Higher marginal tax rates for high income persons, ending special treatment for capital gains, possibly wealth taxes, reinvigorated estate taxes and funding the IRS adequately so that something like $500B per year (mostly from those who can best afford to pay) doesn’t go uncollected would help too.

“What real difference does Norway make in the EV market?”

Please stop being an Ugly American. You make me want to move to Canada.

You might just as well ask: What real difference did Tesla make, when it was selling only the original Roadster? It made a huge difference. Just the news of Tesla putting the Roadster into production was sufficient to motivate Nissan to make the Leaf and for GM to make the Volt.

Hopefully, Norway’s shining example of how governments can strongly promote EV sales thru draconian taxes of gasmobiles will be followed by other European nations.

The 1m+ EVs sold in China last year does NOT include micro EVs aka LSEVs. Those were another 1m+ though good data is hard to find since they don’t qualify for national incentive programs.

It certainly does include underpowered, short-range microcar EVs with abysmal safety, which have a claimed top speed perhaps around 50-60 MPH… and an actual top speed somewhat less.

These are cars which would at best qualify for only NEV (Neighborhood Electric Vehicle) status in the U.S. and Canada.

This is my complaint with many from areas of CA or other population centers, often thinking they are central to everything. Companies have to ship to all 50 states for EVs to penetrate the market (and that alone won’t guarantee success).

Tesla has been effective at this, only about 37% of Model 3 sales have been to CA vs 63% other states. Most EVs have well over 50% of their low sales volume to CA. Bolt EV, Leaf, and all the Teslas are really my only EV choices right now.

Why do automakers have to ship to 50 states to penetrate the market? Are sales in Wyoming or North Dakota going to help establish EVs? California established the EV mandate, and only 9 other states have signed on. Why should citizens of North Carolina, for instance, expect to get penetrated by EVs if their government doesn’t support EV ownership? Automakers go where the sales are, and those sales are in California. Once California is conquered, and the other CARB EV states, then the rest of the country will come around. The simple fact is that California IS central to the establishment of EVs in the U.S. This really doesn’t require any “thinking” that California is central. Right now, California has EVs at 10% of new car sales. The next closest state isn’t close with 3.5% for Washington. And I dispute your claim that Tesla has a low number of Model 3 sales compared to the U.S. Driving.ca (driving. ca/tesla/auto-news/news/california-accounts-for-almost-half-of-all-tesla-model-3-sales) states that almost 50% of Model 3 sales were in California in the first 10 months. Perhaps you can provide a citation for different stats? And as noted by Electrek, California represented 27% of Tesla total sales around the world as… Read more »

Look at inside EVs for annual CA sales.
https://insideevs.com/california-electric-car-sales-2018/

For EVs to go mainstream they need to appeal to more people, and Tesla is showing that by having good sales in non EV states. It makes sense for Kia to start their compliance level sales in CA, I am not disputing that, but it really shows their lack of commitment with low volumes they are delivering.

Rivian will show like Tesla has, that a well designed and thought out EV will sell nationwide. VW plans high volumes too.

Both Norway and CA show high EV sales, but for compliance reasons. Which was a good way to kick start the industry and get companies like Tesla going that actually make EVs people want to buy.

You are using the wrong stats for Model 3 sales in CA. Your 37% comes from the Model 3’s percentage of luxury car sales, not the percentage of Model 3s sold in California versus the U.S. Nowhere in the article does it provide the number of Model 3 sales in California versus the U.S.

I would really love it if Tesla sold more Model 3s outside of California. But that is not where sales are going now, or for many years to come, unfortunately.

No, it comes from my own calculations: 51,293 CA sales / 139,782 Total US sales. It is coincidence that it was also 36% of near luxury sales (not what I was referring to).

“The US is woefully behind on EV adoption compared to other areas…”

WOW do you have that backwards!

With the sole exceptions of China and Norway, all other countries are woefully behind on EV adoption compared to the U.S.

Cars like this will have a hefty “dealer surcharge” added, which will pay the franchise dealer for the servicing work they’re not going to get.

Effectively Tesla, who is the only manufacturer who can supply cars when they’re ordered, is generating demand for franchise dealerships to collect money on… until legacy manufacturers actually have to step up production.

Until then, it’s a surcharge gravy train for franchise dealerships… and pissed off buyers who go to Tesla.

Only surcharge where demand outstrips supply.

For the Kona Electric, apparently that is pretty much everywhere. But to be fair, it was that way in the first couple of months or maybe even longer for sales of the Bolt EV.

Perhaps in time, demand will fade for the Kona Electric, as it has for the Bolt EV. But I wouldn’t bet any money on that! There seems to be a lot of excitement and much demand for Hyundai’s new BEV.

It was reported in the news(bloomberg) I believe that Hyundai was laying off workers init’s Ulsan factories as there was oversupply of ICE cars but no BEVs as they didn’t anticipate the demand for BEVs and no adequate supply of batteries, and Hyundai was now planning their own battery research and going to produce their own cells/packs in a few years.

Hyundai and Kia batteries are primarily supplied by LG. This presents a problem for Hyundai and Kia building their own battery plants. LG has already threatened to cut off the battery supply to VW should VW continue with its plans to build its own battery plants. VW has withdrawn plans for it own plants.

If LG does the same with Kia and Hyundai, we can expect any battery plant plans to disappear.

This isn’t how contracts are written with suppliers. Getting batteries or packs is do different than getting seats for a car. You have specs and quantities in a contract either a supplier agrees to it or they don’t.

If GM wants to start building 150k EV’s in 2021 I’m sure they’ll have a contract with LG to do just that. It takes LG about 18 months to get a factory going.

Yeah, I too seriously question that report about LG threatening to cut off VW. As you say, a contract is a contract. If LG breaks a contract, they would have to pay a penalty, and probably a pretty stiff one. More importantly, what other company would sign a contract with them if they unilaterally broke a major contract?

Maybe they would threaten to not extend expiring deals or agree to new ones.

Kia is getting cells from SK Innovation. SK has just announced several new plants, including Georgia US, to increase total production 4x in the next 2 years. A drop in the bucket compared to what’s needed but a good start…

Because the EV world is simply niche…..there is no real demand…..(so goes the ICE narrative desperately trying to keep from being totally disrupted)

Hopefully Hyundai will move a lot more resources from ICE cars to EVs.
Good luck Hyundai.

They must be losing money or not making money on these.

That’s my guess too. Probably Hyundai will have to design and build a different BEV model, to make a profit selling them in volume.

Auto makers can’t just flip a switch and convert a low-volume, no-profit “compliance car” to a high-volume seller making a substantial unit profit. Even if Hyundai had access to that many batteries, they most likely couldn’t do that.

I suspect most of the demand is from California. There is a pretty big shift going in in LA Metro and Bay Area… alot of people are warming up to EV’s.. much quicker than most experts think. Most people that I know are going to get a EV as their next car. I don’t know about the rest of the country but California is changing the game.

Any supply they have is also getting squeezed due to the changes in the ZEV regs. Starting with the 2019 model year, ZEV credits no longer travel for EVs. This means to meet the ZEV requirements in state X, they must be sold in state X. Previously, if an OEM sold a ZEV in California, they got credit in all the ZEV states. I think the Northeast ZEV states still pool credits, but at least it gets more EVs there.

Nice looking, good size, range is excellent, price point and this EV of course would be a winner?

It really isn’t that different than a Bolt EV, what makes this likely to be a winner? I will agree this is slightly better equipped, but they really are same class of vehicle.

You’re right. Better than the bolt, but up here (Canada) the Kona Ultimate costs $53,800 and the Bolt Premier is $53,000 at local dealers. The Kona looks a bit better, but it’s still a budget looking compact car, the top spec gas version sells for $34,000. $20,000 premium for EV? Just too high. The mid range Model 3 costs $58,600 but at least it looks the part (and has higher range than both Kona and Bolt). Below that the Leaf is available for $45,000 for the top spec version. That is substantially cheaper. Less range, but in many ways more practical than the Kona and Bolt with much bigger trunk, and doesn’t look as cheap in my view. Not to mention dozens of used Leafs available for under $20k. Seems to me like if someone wants a fully capable EV that can do road tripping the Model 3 makes the most sense. And for around town the Leaf is best value here. Just don’t see a whole lot of market for that mid range set that still looks cheap. They need to up their game on style if they want to occupy that price point.

The ultimate answer for people in non-CARB states, is to get your state to become a CARB state. They will sell EV’s in your state for sure once they are under ZEV mandate to sell EV’s there, or be forced to buy credits in the ZEV market.

Anyone saying the ZEV system doesn’t work, has to explain why a properly built EV sells like crazy in the states where car makers actually offer them for sale.

But no EV that is not a Tesla has ever sold like crazy.

We should just have a National ZEV mandate.

LOL. Crushing demand. Wonder how many hundreds they’ll product a month.

Not sure on Kona, but for Niro they delivered > 10k in S. Korea in the second half of 2018. Production of those seems to be around 2k/month. Should be a LOT higher, but… Batteries…

LOL. Crushing demand. Wonder how many hundreds they’ll product a month.

Yeah, um, it isn’t even available in California yet. I know, I’ve looked, and I’m on Hyundai’s email list for updates.

EXACTLY. I’ve been in contact with several california hyundai dealers who say they can’t order any and don’t know if or when they’ll be getting them.

Cars.com shows 12 available if you REALLY want one. I would’t expect they’ll cut you a deal on any of them…

https://www.cars.com/for-sale/searchresults.action/?mdId=36706432&mkId=20064&rd=99999&searchSource=QUICK_FORM&zc=90210

Yup, even for us in the Bay Area, the heart of EV country. I’ve been to several local dealerships asking about the Kona and the Niro EVs delivery status…have yet to hear back, I’ve been added to all the lists. My wife’s lease on her e-Golf ends in July, we were hoping to replace it with either the Niro EV or Kona EV, but it’s looking like we may have to go with the Model 3. This isn’t necessarily a bad thing, but paying $50K for a vehicle committed mainly to being a commuter car on the Bay Area’s notoriously bad roads doesn’t sound like a great investment.

They Just got one at Norn Reeves Cerritos Ca and they want almost 50k for this car. I have been waiting for eight months and now they say they have added 7k to the retail price because of high demand. Forget it! I waited this long I will now wait for something else. Talk about deceptive

This is exactly why Chevy flooded the CA market with Bolt EV cars before shipping 50 states. It prevented dealers from marking up cars very much.

If someone is foolish enough to pay that, or any dealer markup over MSRP, then that’s their business. A fool and his/her money are quickly parted. At that price buy a model 3. The worst thing about the Tesla is that you have to pay $2,000 plus tax extra to get white paint.

$49k less $7.5k less $2.5k. $40k. Not bad for a cool looking EV with good range, fast charging, FWD, ground clearance, hatchback, Apple/Google, HUD. I’d pay it if I could get one. I’d be looking at $50k for Model 3.

$50k is too much money for a Kona. You can get a Model 3 with the same range for less, plus a much nicer interior. I was excited for the Kona and Niro, but the dealer games, supply problems, and economy interiors have me taking another look at the Model 3.

Same here. If the dealerships plan on stepping on the prices for these vehicles, it’ll be much easier for me to talk the wife into buying a Model 3 instead.

I am so aggravated and sad. I waited a year for the 2019 EV to be on the market here in northern Ca. In January I went to a Hyundai dealer and they said they wouldn’t be coming to northern Ca. due to demand and that they were only being sold in southern Ca. I have wasted so much time that I am forced to go to a competitor. My dealer said he couldn’t get me one no matter what I did … even purchasing before arrival … as they didn’t plan to ship any here due to insufficient numbers of batteries. This sounds like poor planning … first, with premature advertising and then with a lack of batteries to fill orders. I am very disappointed and resent having no options.

Did you try calling around to other Hyundai dealers in the region? Perhaps they aren’t all as uncooperative as your local dealer.

You could always buy one from a dealer in Southern California, but it would be best if you can find at least one dealer in your region willing to service the car. Sounds like your local dealer wouldn’t be interested.

So call a SoCal dealer and fly down there to get it. Flights are only ~$100. That’s what I did for my PHEV 2 years ago.

More like crazy low production.

This is what we were told would kill Tesla: affordable EVs from „real“ car companies outproducing Tesla which is not even a ral car company.
LMAO.

We ordered ours in November and were offered ours for Earlier delivery (Jan 7) in the UK as we were waiting for Whats known as 19 Registration in the UK (Starts March 1) and Improves values we take ours next week. However the waiting time in the UK is now 42 Weeks. In London the mayor has imposed Tox Charges starting April 1 and this has affected Diesel and conventional Petrol (Gas) vehicles as emissions are higher and what are known as Euro 5 are attracting a daily fee too the total could cost a driver an eye watering $34 extra a day. With this in mind and a plan to stop fossil fuel car sales in the UK by 2040 demand has gone through the roof and conventional vehicle sales especially Diesel (Very popular in Europe until recently) to plummet and to literally destroy diesel second hand sales. Battery manufacture is one of the big issues but the biggest is range anxiety and lack of good charging infrastructure. Governments will also bring in road pricing to cover losses from tax or duty losses gained from Fuel sales. Whats really crating the issue a real lack of capacity. For the… Read more »

Thanks for that link. $52k US but I’m guessing a VAT of 22%(?) so expected $40k US. The are shipping them all over Europe apparently. We’ve seen one here and apparently sold with temporary license vs. dealer plates. Canada has some. I tried to buy one but dealer said can’t be imported to US due to not have tire pressure monitoring plus Hyundai discourages it and won’t provide letter saying it meets US emission and safety standards.

So they are in stock outside US even as close as Canada. $40k in Canada.

Be interesting to see Hyundai’s world wide numbers on it, Considering in stock in so many places, likely 50,000 of them in 2019.

How is a car determined to be a market ‘hit’ after one delivery ?
I expect to read in the next article that a prototype with zero supply and one interested person has infinite demand.

“How is a car determined to be a market ‘hit’ after one delivery ?”

The Kona Electric is being sold worldwide. Contrary to what some apparently think, the USA isn’t the entire automotive market.

There’s no question that global demand for this car is quite high. If that doesn’t make it a “hit” then I don’t know what would!

To be fair, building only 10k units for worldwide markets is not much better than EG’s obtuse example. It’s not going to “move the meter” anywhere, let alone here.

I have no idea what the real-life interest in the Kona EV could be in the US general population (that is outside of the EV community), but somehow I do not feel that the US market is ready to swallow them at the TM3 rate.

Kia sold around 50k Konas in the US last year. But the ICE version is about $20k less. So I would assume the could sell maybe 20k Kona EV’s.

It seems pretty clear that Hyundai can’t and won’t produce them at the rate Tesla produces the TM3, or anything within the ballpark of that much production. So I guess we’ll never know what the real demand level is.

Hyundai/KIA is the most like Tesla in the EV world atm. They are actually producing very efficient affordable models and they are fully committed.
Korean companies should be able to scale quickly in the BEV market because they have a very significant share of the global battery market, through LG, Samsung and SK. You would expect that the Korean government supports its own companies in the production of EV’s rather than build all the batteries for German car companies.

If I was the Koreans I would be saying. – Haha Germany! Get your own battery companies!!

Doesn’t work like that. If LG, Samsung or SK sign a contract they have to deliver regardless of who the buyer is.

The issue is volume. VW plans to sell over 100,000 ID Neos in year one. It will be a cheaper and better specified car because of this.

The important info here is how many are they doing. In July last year they said they were building some 23k a year. In August they informed they were going to double production to 40K a year. In November and December they made some 5k a month (so jumping to 60k a year). Please recheck numbers, i am talking from memory. So in 5 months they tripled their offer. It is very important to know how many did they built in January.

I think it’s jumping to a conclusion to say if they made 5k per month, they must be planning on 60k per year. That 5k per month production rate may not be sustained for long.

If Hyundai has a flexible enough battery cell supply to nearly double planned production from 23k to 40k in such a short amount of time, that’s pretty surprising. But even if they can pull it that off, that doesn’t mean they can get enough batteries to make 60k over the next 12 months. The supply of battery cells is growing year-on-year, but in any year it’s finite, and probably for at least the next decade will continue to be insufficient to supply all the demand.

I think I’ve written here dozens of times how instead of ging on the volt and now bolt route GM should ‘ve sold an Equinox with just the same battery, how that would’ve been a big success. I did that in the hopes that someone from GM Fort Chrisler would notive and maybe they’ll think about it. This crazy demand for Kona EV is the clear proof, now. Too late now. Every time I see a bolt I really , really want to like it (tesla is too expensive still) but every time I’m put off by its proportions, way too cheap and too narrow for 5 people.

Most cars are too narrow for 3 across unless you go to a full size vehicle like a pickup or full size SUV. My Clarity PHEV is okay, but not great 3 across and it is midsize and wider than most cars.

There are about 3 EVs that can meet demand; Nissan Leaf, Bmw i3, Renault Zoe. (Tesla eventually, but obviously premiums at the moment). Battery supply is key.

I’ll give Tesla a pass on not meeting demand, because at least they are shipping more than 10x the volume of Kona’s, and probably Bolts this year. And they’re building another factory.

Results of the 2019 Kona EV project:

Favorable online reviews of the product and its value per dollar
Enthusiast perceptions that Hyundai is a capable EV manufacturer
Managed slow sales result in diminished 2019 financial losses
Dealers able to extract premiums to diminish and/or appease EV maintenance revenue concerns
Design/Process efficiency incentives remain intact for prospective operating years
U.S. portion of product mix of EV vs. ICE vehicles remains low

Hyundai are not fools who don’t know what they’re doing “wrong.”

Hyundai Marketers: 1 U.S. Congress and Regulators: 0

To really make a dent this model should have dual motor all wheel drive.

Hyundai has hinted they have next-gen vehicles coming in 18-ish months with AWD, another 100-ish miles of range, and even faster charging.

And then they would be way pass the $40-45K price range and competing with the Telsa Model 3 and they would lose that battle.

Hyundai “can’t ship you that Kona” because they’re only producing a few tens of thousands per year for the entire world. Because they make no meaningful profit on them. Which is what’s known as a “compliance car” or “loss leader”.

Call a spade a spade. Even Hyundai admits that they make no meaningful profit on their EVs: https://premium.goauto.com.au/low-margin-huge-potential-for-ioniq-hyundai/

It’s not like this is Hyundai’s first time to play this “drum up a bunch of demand with a competitive, unprofitable price point and then don’t produce nearly enough vehicles to meet it” game. They did the exact same thing with the Ioniq. People keep falling for this. Stop being so gullible, people.

Agreed… the Kona is essentially irrelevant for all but the very few who actually manage to get one.

The difference here is they self-limited the demand for the Ioniq by limiting it to a range of 125 miles. They didn’t do that for the Kona which drastically increased the demand.

If they actually lined up the higher production quantity of parts needed to meet demand, they could possibly get the cost down enough to actually make a profit. That’s what Tesla did, twice (Model S and Model 3).

What the f is a ZEV state? How about your article is incomplete if there are acronyms that are unexplained or undefined?

Zero Emissions Vehicle

The proper term is “CARB State”.

If you don’t know what that means… well, you should make friends with Mr. Google. He’s often quite knowledgeable about such things. 😉 I don’t think looking up one single acronym which is quite commonly used in discussions of EVs is a particularly onerous burden on the reader.

There are 10 (maybe 11 now) states that have signed on to CA Zero Emission Vehicle program. That means they are covered under CA’s emissions wavier to have tighter emissions standards than the Fed gov’t. Those states are the ones that typically get the first (sometimes only) EV cars delivered.

California created “CARB”, California Air Resources Board; they created a ZEV (Zero Emission Vehicle) Policy. Other states “Adopted” it, and, for short, are called, “ZEV States”. That is the short answer.

Google is your weapon of research for deeper understanding. Or, Bing!

Oh, of all the cars you can’t get this is probably the best alternative to the Model 3.

That seems to sum up the situation pretty well. 🙂

…unless you live in a RHD country, where Tesla has delivered precisely 0 of those Model 3s.

So how many Kona’s will be built in 2019.
If they only plan on building a few thousand of course demand outstrips supply.

I have a deposit on an Ultimate model here in Maryland, supposed to come in in early March. I was quoted MSRP so I really hope they don’t bait and switch when I get there.

Check out the Yelp reviews online, that are from actual credible customers that bought or leased from the H/K dealership, and you should be able to figure out wether or not “The Fix Is In” next month.

Who woulda thunk? Another ICE maker underestimating the demand for EVs.

How funny I can get a $2500 Texas rebate for this 100% Korean made car, but $0 for the nearly 100% US made Teslas.

If they are wise, they will start to sell in quantities after Bolt’s EV credit expires in couple of months.
But high chances everything is as usual = compliance car

yeah sadly I am sure the supply side of the supply/demand equation is the issue. I am sure they planned on some sad number of production, say 20-40K for the next year.

And now the order book is closed in the UK.