GoE3 to Install Coast-to-Coast Quick Charger Network in 4 Year’s Time – SAE CCS, CHAdeMO and Tesla (w/videos)

MAR 19 2014 BY MARK KANE 38

GoE3 Network

GoE3 Network

One of charging spot at GoE3's Universal Quick Charging Station

One of charging spots at GoE3’s first Universal Quick Charging Station

The GoE3 startup is preparing a huge charging infrastructure project for the U.S. and was recently covered by Bloomberg.

Coast-to-Coast quick chargers will be deployed in three stages. GoE3 plans to build 1,250 points in 4 years and spots are intended to be compatible with all three major standards – CHAdeMO, Combo and Tesla to not exclude anyone. We assume that there will be few different chargers at each site. We don’t know how GoE3 will deal with Tesla to use their proprietary standard and how it will convince drivers to use it and pay.

Price for use could be $6 for 100 miles on average to make profits on ~ $50,000 investment in each station. DC fast charging should take 15-45 minutes.

Below video: interview with GoE3’s founders, who have both put reservations down for the upcoming Tesla Model X:

“GoE3 CEO and Founder Bruce Brimacombe, Verdek CEO and Founder Guy Mannino and Bloomberg’s Jason Harper discuss electric cars and the super charger network taking on Tesla. They speak with Pimm Fox on Bloomberg Television’s “Taking Stock.” (Source: Bloomberg)

1,250 station installations, like the one demonstrated below at Bookmans in Tucson, Arizona, will require over $60 million in investments; provided this $50,000 assumption per site is correct.

Many locations will be with existing filling stations.

So, the concept has been presented, now while we wait for execution. Spend some time watching the YouTube channel of GoE3 and wonder if this project has a chance to succeed and let us know what you think.

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38 Comments on "GoE3 to Install Coast-to-Coast Quick Charger Network in 4 Year’s Time – SAE CCS, CHAdeMO and Tesla (w/videos)"

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The EV movement needs something like this. Ideally, we would have multiple networks supporting all of the standards, but you have to start somewhere. I hope they are successful enough to compel others to follow suit.

Unfortunately, they have zero plans for upstate NY, so this does me absolutely no good.

I don’t want to get too excited about this.. Mostly because I don’t think this company will pull it off. A few things to consider:

$50,000 is a large chunk of change. That means every 20 stations will cost them a million dollars. How many millions will it take to install enough charging stations to get Leaf drivers across country? Do they have that much capital?

Also, $6 sounds too cheap. If this is in-town charging, sure $6 sounds good. But if you are out on the highway in the middle of nowhere, you will probably pay whatever the company is asking for. $20 sounds more reasonable being they have to pay for this equipment and the number of drivers utilizing it for long-distance driving is going to be low.

One last thing… Ok, Tesla drivers I can see. But do they really think people are going to drive across country in current generation Leafs? Maybe if Nissan comes out with that 150 mile Leaf, I could see it.. that’s assuming it can handle the heat of multiple quick charges per trip.

$20 for 100 miles? $6 comes out to about 55mpg at current gas costs, so is about in line what people will pay.

People will pay more than equivalent gas money if they want to make the occasional longer trip in their EV and they have no other place to get a charge. In this case you are paying for the convenience. If there were QC stations between here (Ft.Worth) and Austin and/or Houston, I’d pay $15 to use them if it meant I could make the trip in the Leaf. Right now I can’t make the trip without stopping at several L2 stations and waiting 2-3 hours at each one.

+1. I really enjoy driving electric, and I spend so little on ‘fuel’ all year long, occasional “expensive” QCs are the least of my worries.

1$/kW*h? 1$/minute? No problem. If this help guarantee that the stations I might need are available and work well, it’s money well spent.

Not cross country. Instead DC fast charger networks enable Leaf drivers to take day trips to destinations 50 or 100 miles away and back.

Spacing every 50 miles, and having more than one charger with good uptime and availability will be needed.

DC fast chargers also help around town for when you have some extra unplanned driving to do. Just stop for 10-20 minutes and get 25-50 extra miles.

GSP

Tesla drivers are the only ones I can see using this much.
Future longer range cars from other manufacturer, okay, but the supercharger network is growing and free and faster for TM customers.

And…. still ignoring that space between LA and SF…..

…yeah, and assuming that Mississippi, Louisiana and Arkansas are better regions for deployment than the area from central CA to Oregon and Washington…

…add to that the complete neglect of New England, and you have almost a perfect map of where EV are currently *not* popular.

I wonder what they’re high on.

I do find some of the routes on this map crazy in that they go right though the core of some really anti EV states.

I really think a route from New York to Chicago would make more sense then going though Mississippi and Kentucky. The only way I see some of these southern routes working is if they build them last after they build the regional networks first

Well, they are at least filling in areas where it will be a long time before Tesla builds the Supercharger network there. As a Model S owner myself, I could see using it if they build it where I need to go and Tesla hasn’t built one — my alternative is a 14-50 RV outlet or L2 charging, but that seems like a very short-term thing until Tesla builds out their own.

The other thing is the Roadster is a very different connector than the Model S, and isn’t capable of Supercharging now. Since it shows a Roadster plugged in, will this actually support the Model S? If not, it is really silly to target the ~2000 Roadster owners and ignore the 30k Model S owners.

“In every revolution… there’s one man with a vision.”

Captain Kirk

A coast to coast network is fantastic…problem is auto makers MUST increase travel distance per charge, more like Tesla and their up to 235-300 miles. Driving a 100 mile or less distance EV would be exhausting because of having to charge so frequently even though GoE3 chargers are available.

I dont see a problem with going long runs with a Leaf; its nice to take a break now and then… See the country, experience more, safer driving conditions,…

A coast to coast network does not mean it is only for coast to coast trips.

Such chargers also will be good for trips between the two coasts 😉

Love the CNG (Compressed Natural Gas) comparisons to DCFC (DC Fast Charging) EVSE at 2:40-3:00 mark in Bloomberg video. Station cost 1/10th, and electric use 1/3 less than CNG compresser.

Just need to demonstrate use pattern for a sustainable revenue model. The first 5-10 DCFC could make for on going business case!

I question GoE3’s initial deployment strategy of long remote highways (particularly for longer routes across southwest states). For EVs with a typical 50-100 mile range per charge, the number of charge sessions will make long distance travel a less pleasant experience. The 300 mile Model S is the only pradical long distance EV available today. Starting with regional metro arteries and linking nearby metro regions would have greater year-round use helping establish consistent cash-flow for EVSE installations. (eg: the beltways extending just beyond metro areas) Having a sustainable business model (cash-flow wise) is essential. A minimum of 6-10 DCFC sessions per day is required … not always achievable in a remote location. Establishing a metro DCFC stations to complement regional DCFC EVSE would help balance revenue. Examples of routes connecting nearby metro regions … with higher traffic volumes. (in no particular order) Orlando – Tampa, FL Mami, FL – Jacksonville, FL San Francisco, CA – Sacromento, CA Sacromento, CA – Redding, CA Oakland, CA – Stockton, CA Reno, NV – Sacromento, CA Dallas/Ft. Worth, TX – Houston, TX Houston, TX – San Antonio, TX San Antonio, TX – Dallas/Ft. Worth, TX Atlanta, GA – Nashville, TN Charlotte, NC – Raleigh,… Read more »

+!. I missed your comment. Made a similar one lower down.

I don’t know if they need to be every 50-75 miles on the highway. In town it would be great – I’d love to see a several fast-charge stations pop up for $5 for 75 miles around town.

But when we change our usage habits to long haul driving (between LA and Vegas or SLC or beyond), then I think we have to up our range requirements to reduce the capex the company has to spend on building recharging stations and providing infrastructure to those stations. I think 125 miles will be a good target, with exceptions due to terrain, prevailing winds, hot/cold weather, etc. 125 miles will likely be enough for the second generation of EVs (150-175 mile EPA range). It wont be nearly as expensive to build, you can be sure that if you charge a flat rate to fill up (because of whatever state regulations that prevent you from charging by the kWh) that the users will be getting a full charge instead of a partial charge and wont feel ripped off.

* They need more coverage in the North
* They need more automakers to make 200+ mile EVs
* What are the charge rates?

Good for them, though I share some of the questions mentioned above. Like why so few stations above the Mason Dixon line, and hardly anything in CA? Perhaps since Tesla has ignored the South, except for central Texas, and the first stations seem to be just across the South.

Btw, he says every 35 miles for the charging stations, in the second video. Plus the wall street guy looks like his dad. Also towing the tesla across the landscape does not seem to be a wise choice, at least video of that. I suppose many sports cars, or show cars are treated that way. Sort of a doh’ choice.

Charging rate is implied in the name a 3rd generation charger. From their web site:
GoE3 provides lightning-fast Level Three chargers at all of its locations, along with Level Two, 70 Amp or higher, to support all modern electric vehicles.

Finally how in any way shape or form does this charging infrastructure do what that headline says:
Taking on Tesla? Stupid headline just trying to set up controversy where none exists and merely using the Tesla name since it is synonymous with ev’s so why not use their name in the headline? At least that is the mentality over at Bloomberg. Misleading an silly.

I think this system could work out if they have the 150 mile leaf in that you could in theory travel 450 miles a day with three stops. You could also travel 450 miles with 6 stops. The major flaws I see in this system is that the bulk of it is in the south which doesn’t have that many electric cars. Also the New York to Chicago route is untended to along with Interstates 70 and 80 are untended to. I really do want this long distance system of EV chargers to get built. Oddly I looked on the internet after this and right now they have built seven DC fast Chargers in Denver Colorado along with a few in Arizona. I think if they do try to built out this system maybe they should try to build a few local and regional systems first and then start electrifying the main routes. As for their system in Virginia I feel like emailing them telling them that they have several of their plans for Virginia set up a little flawed. In that they should work on linking Norfolk and Virginia Beach up to Washington DC with five new Chargers along… Read more »

Hey Tony Williams so how’s the Rav4 EV JDeMO project going? I love to start taping into CHAdeMO network this summer!

cheers

We are actively working on it.

Good to hear Thanks!

I hope this is successful, but I’m not sure what market GoE3 is trying to serve or what the pitch to investors might be to get the capital to build this. There is one car on the market today that could take advantage of this, Tesla, who currently has roughly 25k cars in NA today. Let’s say that number doubles in the next year and 10% of Tesla owners want to drive Route 66 across the country. Here’s the basic math: 4,000 miles (there & back) / 200 miles = 20 Stops 20 stops x $12 per stop = $240 per round trip 50,000 Tesla cars x 10% of drivers = 5,000 trips 5,000 trips x $240 per trip = $1.2M $1.2M is enough money to pay for 24 re-charge stations a year. That math is pretty bad, but there are two assumptions I’ve made are off-the-charts optimistic: 1) No way that 10% of Tesla drivers will want to drive across the country. It would surprise me if 1% would do this. Its more likely .1%. At 1%, you could pay for 2.5 of these re-charge stations. 2) Of those Tesla drivers, how many would use these stations vs the… Read more »

I agree with some of your math. The one thing I disagree with is that Tesla drivers would be the only ones using it. I agree that Leaf drivers aren’t likely to drive across country. But I suspect Leaf drivers would start taking regional trips. For example, with QC stations every 35 miles apart, I could happily take my Leaf from Ft.Worth to Austin. I could also see people with PHEVs using the station if they are taking a trip and need to stop somewhere to eat. They could plug in and gain some EV miles back.

Technically you could have a long distance network with chargers every 30 miles and it gets heavily used even though two or three people drive the full length of it in a year. In that each local fast charger would feed power into a small local herd of EV’s in a town that it is in. Such as someone could drive somewhere 80 miles in a day and use the fast charger and then go back home. This could happen thousands of times even though no one ever uses it to go drive from Chicago to Denver. The good news about this is that even though no one would drive the full length at least the system would be fed and sustained and keep it open as a possibly.

It might be possible that I might end up buying a electric car in another state and use this system of fast chargers to drive it home.

Oh, and for those in the North complaining about coverage, my guess is that they are accounting for cold-weather states vs warm-weather states. But I wouldn’t really complain too much given the business model is not likely to get very far.

I don’t get the obsession with building out FCDC infrastructure for long-haul inter-state traveling through the rural west/mid-west. It seems to me the more profitable approach would be to build out the infrastructure radially from the most popular EV metro cores at key spots to all the various well-traveled secondary roads. FCDC is for people traveling beyond their round-trip home charge range, but most of that longer travel isn’t interstate – it’s regional travel, for business, for recreation, to visit relatives within a 200 mile radius. For example, in CA, along the spine of north-south routes Highway 101 and 395 and at key places on all the main east-west connector highways. With CA being the hottest market for EV’s both now and in the near future, those chargers would see the most use. I think way more than out on a lonely stretch of interstate in NV or UT.

Indeed, GoE3’s map also leaves me scratching my head.

Furthermore, save for GA and bits of CA, it almost carefully avoids places where EV sales are doing well. E.g. http://insideevs.com/infographic-top-10-plug-in-growth-regions-in-america/

Sure, things change, but how much and how quickly?

While I definitely welcome new QC installs, and wish GoE3 success, I’m a bit worried here that they don’t quite understand how and where today’s EVs are typically used, and therefore won’t get anywhere near the ROI they expect in the areas they chose to focus on…

This circular logic applied to areas of the country that are perceived as “ev unfriendly” is getting old. It’s bad enough when I have to deal with this among the ev detractors, but seeing it used by ev proponents is disappointing. We are trying to use the same model that other states have used. Build the charging infrastructure, and the ev’s will sell better. Unfortunately, early perceptions by ev manufacturers, evse manufacturers and government that some states would be anti-ev have hindered the proliferation of charging stations. I was snubbed by most evse companies when I first started working on our charging infrastructure because of the state I live in. Only one company was eager to have our business. I hope this project continues and am happy to see someone looking at the middle of the country for a change.

But the reality is that California will be the center of the EV universe in the U.S. No other state has come close to mandating the number of EVs that will inhabit California roads. It is great to fantasize that Mississippi or Louisiana deserves DCFS in a “build it they will come” belief. But a business has to be realistic, and concentrating the southern states is pure folly.

I wasn’t finished: By GoE3 merely providing an exit to California, and not travel within the state is a sure way for the company to insure its demise.

We want to install a charging system outside our garage at home for our new Chevy Volt here in Virginia Beach, Va Any suggestions on who to contact for doing this work? Thanks!
Linda