GM Is Going “All Electric” But Won’t Say When: No Word On Truck

FEB 7 2019 BY MARK KANE 37

The direction was set, but the pace is unknown

General Motors is undergoing a huge transformation on different fronts. The automaker goes from losing money to making money. Shifts from passenger cars to more SUVs and from conventional powertrains to all-electric.

According to Mary Barra, Chairman and CEO of General Motors, the company is going all-electric. What does that really mean? Details are scarce as we know only about a new platform and an all-electric Cadillac. Even the Caddy is still three years from launch.

Mary Barra doesn’t expect to make money off BEVs in the next few years, which means that the first profitable models (EV profitability was underlined at a meeting with dealers) are to appear early next decade.

We assume that those few years will be needed to develop new models and prepare for high-volume models. We should probably see some battery supply deal in the near future, which would confirm that GM is really making a bold move.

Because the company is pursuing profitability, even by making unpopular decisions of closing some of its plants, there will probably no real will to sell many of the current plug-in models (looking at the Chevrolet Bolt EV) at a loss in those few years.

GM so far didn’t say when we will see new electric models, including the much-anticipated electric pickup.

Source: CNBC

Categories: Chevrolet

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37 Comments on "GM Is Going “All Electric” But Won’t Say When: No Word On Truck"

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Nobody cares.
Work harder.

Work Smarter !

Errors occur
ICE vehicles will always be needed

LICE vehicles are the error.

A Huge Error Made way back to Work In the Better Interest Of BIG 0IL !

Why will they always be needed? Please elaborate. I’m sure that all those who read this forum would love to know your arguments.

Yes. This reminds me of the climate change deniers who jump into a conversation to point out how “obvious” it is that CC isn’t real, is a hoax, etc., only to have someone who trusts the science say, “OK, prove it. Publish your paper, collect your Nobel Prize, and become one of the great heroes of science.” That’s when the CC denier typically disappears.

I guess you live in or near a major metropolitan area. Go visit rural areas much? How about rural areas outside the USA? My suspicion is you will have a percentage of ICE vehicles that never go away, but we really only need a majority of the drivers to transition. Once price parity is reached and range is enough for more remote driving, I think you will see a larger percentage of people transition, but there will still always be some that need the flexibility of liquid energy dense fuel.

“ICE vehicles will always be needed”

The rule of complexity says you are wrong. ICE vehicles are far more complex than electric. More complexity equals more to go wrong.

“ICE vehicles will always be needed…”

No doubt some were saying that about steam engine cars, a century ago. I feel pretty confident in predicting it won’t take 100 years until your assertion is proven untrue.

By profitable, it means EV will cost about $7K more than similar gasser. EV drive train costs about the same as ICE engine, and the battery will add about $7K to the price. That means Cruze hatch ($23) like EV will cost about $30K. Lowest price for Bolt on sale was $30K.

Yes, Bolt performs whole lot better, but this shows that lowest price for 200+ miles range EV will always be over $30K.

If you want 200+ miles range EV for under $30K, get them now when the tax credit is still available. Current Bolt is probably the cheapest you’ll ever get it since others won’t be able to haggle the price due to limited availability.

“200+ miles range EV will always be over $30K”

I seriously doubt this will hold true. However, GM EVs (being Cadillacs) will probably start at $50k or more.

I have the Caddy SUV-EV as my screensaver. Hope is all I got right now. Model Y is probably what I end up with. If my current Caddy holds together, I probably won’t need a newer car for 5 years or more.

“200+ miles range EV will always be over $30K” is right up there with “640k [of computer memory] ought to be enough for anybody.”

I think that will be disproven within 6 years; certainly within 10 years.

Do Not Read Between The Lines

That assumes
1) batteries and other EV components also won’t improve in density, thus always requiring over 60kWh to get comfortable 200 miles of range.
2) EVs wouldn’t be discounted the same way all other vehicles are discounted

Also note that assembly costs for BEVs are lower than for ICEVs.

1) Raw material cost for cell is about $100/kWh. Even if they can get the price down by 10%, pack price will still hover about $7K for 60 kWh. Yes, you need 60 kWh+ to get 200+ miles range, especially with “profitable” CUV/SUV forms that are less efficient.

2) Discounting can go only so far on sustained basis. Price lower than manufacturing will not happen.

Assembly at modular level is lower, but how much cost savings that represent isn’t clear.

There’s another monkey wrench in scaling to reduce the price. EVgo just announced price hike, and public charging now cost significantly more than gas. Granted, most will charge at home, but this is yet another “too expensive” gut feeling for people who are not familiar.

Do Not Read Between The Lines

1) Raw material cost for their current cells might be $100/kWh, but the cells aren’t going to be same 6 years from now. Manufacturer focus is on cost reduction. GM will go elsewhere if LG Chem can’t deliver. Their only significant tie is now the Bolt, and that’s a low-volume compliance and development car.
2) It’s not about sustained discounting. It’s about you claiming that you won’t ever be able to get one cheaper than now. There always have been and always will be deals available. The Cruze base value you use is the MSRP, and nobody pays MSRP. Easy deals to be had with at least $2k off. If battery prices go where they expected to go, BEV will just be another option, with lower entry spec. You’ll not be paying $30k for the lowest spec available.

1) I don’t count on some unknown breakthrough. Heck, they could find viable Mr. Fusion and flux capacitor, but I don’t count them. Realistic is gradual decrease to about $100/kWh cell cost.

2) You may get slightly below $30K in the future on special sales, but you won’t get $22K. And that’s my point; current Bolt on sale pricing is probably the lowest you can ever get on 200+ miles range EV. Again, not counting invention of Mr. Fusion.

100% of that is wrong, even if a breakthru such as commercialized solid-state batteries never happens.

“1) Raw material cost for cell is about $100/kWh.”

That’s pretty clearly already not true, given that Tesla is now paying Panasonic about that price… and that includes Panasonic’s assembly and labor costs, as well as Panasonic’s profit margin.

The GOP Senate is trying to kill the EV fed tax credit again. With a Democratic House, it’s likely that won’t actually happen, but the GOP still tries.

I don’t see the tax credit lasting much longer for Bolt. That’s why I say it’s the best time now, especially if you can get it on sale for $32K – $7.5K (fed) – $2.5K (CA) = $22K. I doubt you’ll get much less than MSRP for unobtainable Kona and Niro.

Also, the way Democrats are pushing the moderates and independents away with their violent left wing rhetoric, I fear even more GOP power. Remember, GOP got more votes in midterm than Obama midterm despite DUMP.

Worse is coming with so much fracturing among Democrats with their identity politics; no, Ralph Northam is not and was never a racist.

Mary B.,Mary B., quite contrary!

“Mary, Mary, quite contrary,
How does your EV business grow?
With silver Bolts, and cocked up Volts,
And pretty maids all in a row.”

For me, the two most frustrating car makers are Honda and Toyota, for obvious (to people on this site) reasons. But pretty close behind them is GM, since they clearly could be doing vastly more than they are in terms of embracing electrification, but seem to be wandering lost in the woods.

I hope this is just a case of something I mention here a lot — they’re working on some really great vehicles but just aren’t talking about them yet, and we’ll all be thrilled when GM puts them on the car show circuit in a year or two. Honestly, I’m not optimistic; we desperately need the larger car companies to get on the EV bandwagon, but so far, we see a lot of foot dragging and excuses.

We don’t need them to, they need to do it for their own reasons. If Tesla releases a car that attracts a good percentage of their buyers you can be sure they will follow suit.

Do Not Read Between The Lines

Honda and Toyota are already making their moves for 2020+ compliance in China.
It’ll make the climbdown easier.

GM: “We may or may not be going all electric at some unknown point between now and then. In the meantime, we’re cancelling the Volt, and stuff.”

More fluff.

It’s Impossible for GM to Go “All Electric” Not Now, Not Ever !

I predict that within 15 years, least 92% of GM’s sales will be plug-in EVs… or else GM will be out of business.

I think the Bolt is profitable if you don’t include research, development and plant modifications. GM’s next vehicles might be profitable including those things sooner because some of that cost would have been covered by the Bolt’s design and development or other platform modifications to ICE vehicles that included EVs. Or they are going to spread the cost to more vehicles.

Well, their perfect track record on batteries went out the window, just another GM lie, it’s GM, take with a large dose if B.S.

How so? There have been no batteries replaced due to degradation to my knowledge. There have been replacements due to defects in cells. Those are two different things. Degradation has happened to some Leaf batteries due to high temperatures and some Teslas due to a lot of quick charges.

A defect on the other hand can happen at anytime and without reason. It seems like in the case of battery packs regardless of maker it tends to occur earlier than later.

GM Is Going “All Electric” But Won’t Say When

Or how to make the headkine when you have nothing to say

Yup – going electric while constantly discontinuing electric car models, and not coming out with new models using their existing technologies – something that would truly be easy for them to do.

Meanwhile spending an incredible $Billions on Fuel Cell technology and having almost nothing to show for it.

GM will probably wait for the next “We’re going bankwrupt” crises, then dangle the “We’ll build EVs in the good ‘ol USA” promise while waiting for a government bailout.

Thank you. All talk and no walk

Keep in mind that GM includes fuel cell vehicles and “Mild Hybrid” systems as “electrified” cars, just like a number of other ICE companies.

GM way late to the party