GM Battles Tesla? Chevrolet Bolt EV VS Tesla Model 3 – Video

2 years ago by Mark Kane 241

With established carmakers such as General Motors increasing the range of their pure electric models, and Tesla Motors also moving forward (and down) into the more affordable part of the plug-in market segment, actual competition now begins.

Tesla Model 3

Tesla Model 3

“GM Battles Tesla in the Electric Car Market

Bloomberg’s David Welch reports on GM and Tesla going after the middle market with the release of new electric cars. He speaks on “Bloomberg Markets.” (Source: Bloomberg)”

The 2017 Chevrolet Bolt EV, which will enter production this Fall with deliveries before year end, and the 2018” Tesla Model 3, which is pegged for deliveries at the end of 2017, are still not true direct competitors (we would never suggest that), but their ranges and affordability are pretty close.

The Players:

  • Chevrolet Bolt EV – 200+ miles EPA, 60 kWh battery, 0-60 mph under 7 seconds and starting from $37,500
  • Tesla Model 3 at least 215 miles EPA, expected over 60 kWh battery, 0-60 mph in less than 6 seconds and starts at $35,000.

As it stands, the Chevrolet Bolt EV’s main advantage is that it will enter the long range/affordable all-electric with an timing edge of at least one year over the Tesla; which in the absence of any ‘real’ competition, can be an advantage as human nature is to be impatient.

Tesla Model 3s Lineup Up For March 31st Debut In Hawthorne, CA

Tesla Model 3s Lineup Up For March 31st Debut In Hawthorne, CA

The other GM advantage, is that even once the Tesla Model 3 arrives in 2018, it could still be the much quicker delivery option for new consumers – especially those looking to make an EV purchase starting with a “3” – or in other words a base optioned car.

The deep Tesla reservations queue (and an unknown initial production run, at least for the first half of 2018) could be discouraging for any Tesla customers on the back end of the list, especially the lower priority/low option Model 3 order who could be in for an up to ~3 year wait to get cars.

Truly, the competition is not really the Model 3 vs the Bolt EV at all…but the “base” trim level of the Model 3 vs the Bolt EV – where basic functionality, cost and utility come into play; this is where we see actual apples-to-apples competition breaking out.

But other than that, we still struggle to find any significant ways the Tesla Model 3 is inferior to the Chevy Bolt EV…at least on a technical level as we understand the sizing, specs and aesthetics on the two EVs as they stand today.

Chevrolet Bolt EV NY Auto Show 2016 via Tom M 5

Chevrolet Bolt EV

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241 responses to "GM Battles Tesla? Chevrolet Bolt EV VS Tesla Model 3 – Video"

  1. Al says:

    Without a high-speed charging network the Bolt will only be practical for use around town and owners would need to use another vehicle for road trips. The Tesla Model 3 will be able to use the Supercharger network making it a practical car for all occasions. It will also be software-defined for updates and just flat out be designed better and look better than the Bolt.

    1. Kdawg says:

      With 200 miles of range, I can visit many cities outside of my own and still make it back. If the cities I’m visiting have any type of L2 chargers and I’m staying over night, then I can go to an even further radius.

      So I would say sub 70 mile BEVs are more for around town, where 200+ mile BEVs will take you to nearby town approx an hour away.

      1. Kdawg says:

        Forgot to say, I still have concerns about build quality with Tesla (and getting it repaired). I put a deposit down on a Model 3, but I hear a lot of horror stories after the first few months of deliveries, I will probably go with the Bolt. The Bolt will have been out for 2 years min before I get a chance at a Model 3, so who knows how many tweaks/improvements the Bolt will have by then.

        1. Nelson says:

          All cars will require some kind of repair at some point of ownership. One thing I find a little uncomfortable is the fact that most Chevrolet dealers only have one Volt specialist mechanic. I’m sure that will change but Chevrolet mechanics will have to deal with many power train variations as opposed to a Tesla mechanic (all EV specialists). I like the idea of repairing my future EV at a place where they only repair EVs.
          Kind of like why most people go to a specialist doctor rather than a general practitioner to resolve a specific illness.

          NPNS! SBF!

          1. Kdawg says:

            It’s not even just the electric drive-train, but any part on a Tesla that could fail or be damaged. It’s not like Tesla will have a huge inventory of parts readily available, especially in the Midwest. So a Bolt repair could take a day or maybe 2, while a Model 3 could be 2 weeks or longer, and that’s after I have my car shipped to a Tesla service center. I have 3 Chevrolet dealerships by me, and all sell & work on Volts.

            1. Nelson says:

              I feel for you, but I have two Tesla service centers about 30 min. drive each from me in NJ and one 20 min. drive away in NY.

              I don’t disagree with your concern. Michigan has issues with Tesla. You could move to a State with better climate.

              NPNS! SBF!
              Volt#671

              1. Richardd962 says:

                A good L3 infrastructure will surpass tesla, in Québec we hace 30 L3 charging point (growing to 60 in the next year) compare to 2 Tesla super charger, so both teSla and future Bolt owner will use THE L3 infrastructure.

                1. Aaron says:

                  Is it CHAdeMO or CCS or both? That’s the biggest problem. There are NO (pauses to check plugshare.com) CCS chargers within 200 miles of my house.

                  1. an_outsider says:

                    They are all dual standard, CHAdeMO & CCS combo, 50kW nominal. Most of time, next to a L2 EVSE

                    1. Jeffrey Songster says:

                      From my home… there are plenty of CHAdeMO and CCS chargers popping up… I use the CHAdeMO and Level 2 chargers often. I see in the Northern California area… no problem in statewide (or even West Coast OR and WA ) travel by the time the BOLT arrives… I know the Tesla has a national DCQC net already in place. It represents the no compromise choice in EVs. No problem going anywhere around.

            2. philip d says:

              Yeah but with Tesla for your M3 troubles you at least get a Model S as a loaner for 2 weeks vs. a crappy gasser from GM for 2 or 3 days.

              Unless of course they are out of Teslas for loaners.

              1. Doug B says:

                Betting Tesla loaners will be M3s.

                1. TomArt says:

                  But most likely fully-optioned, like all of the S loaners.

            3. evcarnut says:

              TESLA DOES MOST REPAIRS OVER THE AIR…DOES “GM”! I don’t think so.. YOU’RE SPECULATING IN YOUR MIND ,in order to discount Tesla ..I THINK WITH “GM” YOU’D HAVE A PROBLEM OF A MUCH GREATER MAGNITUDE. AS The “ICE” mechanic know nothing about EV’s.So good luck diagnostics..

              1. Knarf says:

                Tesla cannot fix hardware over the air. When a motor drive unit fails it has to be replaced by a human just like every other car. That repair is subject to parts and personnel availability. An established dealer network with parts stocked is not a disadvantage here. GM has OnStar which diagnoses issues over the air and can do repairs (i.e. updates) as well.

        2. Frederick Faller says:

          Doesn’t anyone remember Lucky Goldstar, a long time ago they made the worst junk to come out of Korea & wat about Daywoo more junk

        3. Mitchell Burns says:

          Get your deposit, buy the bolt. That way someone else will get their Model 3 quicker.

      2. scott franco (the evil EV owning republican) says:

        “With 200 miles of range, I can visit many cities outside of my own and still make it back. If the cities I’m visiting have any type of L2 chargers and I’m staying over night, then I can go to an even further radius.”

        Here in san jose (silicon valley), with plenty of CHADEMO, CCS and Tesla L3 chargers, the range is clear. I have attempted to tour the bay area with a leaf. Its painfull, and significantly adds to total travel time to charge.

        With the bolt, day trips in the bay would be reasonable, say monterrey and back with a CCS charger in monterrey. But a trip to LA or Oregon would still not be practical in a bolt.

        In a Tesla, it is, and that is why I5 is populated with Tesla superchargers.

        1. Jeff N says:

          “With the bolt, day trips in the bay would be reasonable, say monterrey and back with a CCS charger in monterrey. But a trip to LA or Oregon would still not be practical in a bolt.”

          That seems a bit pessimistic. San Jose to Monterey is about 70 miles or 140 roundtrip. You may be able to that without any extra charging. At most, you could plugin to a regular Level 2 J1772 station to add 25 miles each hour while you visit the aquarium or whatever.

          Likewise, a trip from San Jose to Los Angeles is about 375 miles. You could do that with 2 CCS charging stops. Drive about 150 miles and charge ~45 minutes during brunch. Drive another 125 miles and charge another 30-40 minutes while getting a coffee and snack. Drive into LA. Total charging time is maybe 90 minutes while making the trip.

          In a big battery Tesla you could do it in one charging stop. Total time difference would be less than an hour if both cars were driven down the much more pleasant scenery of US 101 which has CCS stations. That seems entirely practice to me.

          The problem is that the CCS stations in place now are too slow so you would spend more time than necessary waiting for the charge to complete. Once the Bolt EV and other 200+ CCS cars get on the road these charging stations will be upgraded and/or new stations will be added as more people take their BEVs on longer trips on the highway. This problem will quickly fix itself in California and other areas with many plugin cars but drivers in other areas will be much better off with access to a Tesla Supercharging stations for another 5 – 10 years.

          1. energymatters says:

            GM (and other mfrs) would be wise to increase the rate fo charge for their J1772 ports. The J1772 specification allows for 80 amps @ 240V = 19.2KW or appx. 75 miles/hour of range for charging.

            Tesla supports 10KW standard (so do Mercedes B and Tav4).

            AC is cheaper and easier to place and at 20KW gets you a full days round trip in about an hour.

          2. Bonaire says:

            CCS is moving on spec to 150KW and may even go to 300KW down the road. It’s why Tesla has become a member in their organization.

          3. Speculawyer says:

            Going over the hill on 17 sucks a lot of power.

    2. Texas FFE says:

      You are vastly understating the current CCS network. About half of the US is covered with enough CCS charging station to make traveling long distances in the Bolt, with it’s 200 mile range, very practical. The 200 mile range also makes the areas of the country without CCS stations much more manageable and many of those areas without CCS stations will have CCS stations by the time the Model 3 comes out.

      1. Foob says:

        Aye, but <=50kw into a 60kwh car reduces the practicality somewhat.

        1. Jeffrey Songster says:

          Because of charge tapering… the difference in DC Quick Chargers between 25Kw and 100Kw is not directly proportional… also often you don’t need to go from completely discharged to completely charged… if the DCQC are spaced abundantly you likely will only want a boost to the next stop not necessarily a full charge.

          1. SparkEV says:

            You use DCFC for longer trips, and times you need it are when its running low. Then most Bolt charging will be almost to full or 80%. If human psychology as I see them with current crop of EV, people don’t plug in just to get to next charger; they take as much as they can.

            I dread having to wait for Bolt at DCFC; almost an hour wait! Hopefully Bolt won’t get free charging so those waits will be rare with locals charging at home instead of DCFC.

          2. scott franco (the evil EV owning republican) says:

            The gold standard is %80 charge.

            And Bolt takes 1 hour to go to %80.

            1. TomArt says:

              Exactly – existing standards just don’t cut it compared to the designed, deliberate goal of practical intercity travel with the SC network!

        2. Steven says:

          Yeah, CCS at 50kW fast charging isn’t going to make it a great car road trip in. Not to mention, every few CCS chargers I hit in my area are broken. Only one charger within 50 miles is rough also, unless you’re in a major city. That charger is down, I’m sleeping in my car and charging at L2 for hours. SuperChargers, 2-8 stalls, 2+ times charging speed, and all paid for in advance. No $10 for 30 minutes of charging or whatever that operator wants to charge. Frustrating to need 15kWhs fast charged in my Spark EV and to have to spend $10 to “gas up”.

        3. zzzzzzzzzz says:

          Look at this charging rate graph for Model S 60:


          After few minutes it goes to 60 kW and that is all. Maybe Bolt or Leaf 2 or some other will have somewhat better batteries but it isn’t that much difference for practical purposes. Battery cars are not the best choice for cross state travel anyway, but even 50 kW would be fine for occasional 200-400 miles trip in 200 mile range car if 1 recharge is enough.

          1. Bonaire says:

            It is Amazing that we still don’t use that dirty dirty R-word. Rental. Why not rent a car for long-distance few times a year travel? Or use the ICE you have in the family rather than the BEV daily driver.

            People are living imaginary lives in their mind thinking of ways to make one 200-mile BEV work without opening their minds to various alternatives. Of course, if you have a Volt, none of these mental gymnastics even have to be imagined.

            1. Someone out there says:

              We need to get off oil for transportation completely. ICE will not be an option in the future. There are still a few uses of oil we won’t be able to get rid of for a while but transportation is not one of them.

          2. Priusmaniac says:

            That is still a difference in charging time one hour versus 40 minutes. Unfortunately for GM the people’s patience is not linear but exponential. So 40′ doesn’t feel like two third of an hour to people but rather like just 20′ or 30′ more than what they would stop for spontaneously while the 60′ feel like 40′ or 50′ more, that’s twice as long in perception of waiting time. Those extra 20′ feel like an eternity, especially if you have an appointment or kids in the car.

      2. Nelson says:

        Will these CCS locations be free to use?
        The Tesla Supercharging Network is free for Tesla cars.

        NPNS! SBF!
        Volt#671

        1. Texas FFE says:

          There’s no such thing as free charging. You are either paying for the charging in the price of the car or at the point of use.

          1. Nelson says:

            I was waiting for that reply.
            Base MSRP for the Bolt EV is $37,500
            Does NOT include free charging.
            Source:
            http://www.chevrolet.com/bolt-ev-electric-vehicle.html
            Base MSRP for the Model 3 is $35,000
            Includes FREE charging.
            Source:
            https://www.teslamotors.com/model3
            NPNS! SBF!
            Volt#671

            1. ClarksonCote says:

              No free charging for Model 3.

              Most analysts, as well as people on here, seem to agree that Musk has been very careful with his wording. He’s stated that all Model 3’s will be supercharger capable. He has never said that would be free of charge to have the privilege.

              1. philip d says:

                I agree with the M3 being only Supercharger capable at $35,000.

                So add $2,000 for Supercharging and the base comes to $37,000 for the M3 and the Bolt is still more at $37,500 and no free charging.

                1. ClarksonCote says:

                  And if you want bigger wheels, the glass roof, AWD, or other options, be prepared to pay much more on the Model 3. Oh, and deliveries for many won’t be until mid-2018, lest they ramp up production to well over 300k per year, which seems unlikely without introducing even more reliability problems than they already have.

                  1. TomArt says:

                    Options that the Bolt doesn’t have standard or optional!

                    Model 3 still wins.

                  2. Nick says:

                    All reasonable arguments, but you didn’t address the original free super charging argument.

                    1. kubel says:

                      Even if they tacked on an extra $2000 to get Supercharger access (initially they said it will be included, now they aren’t sure), the Model 3 with Supercharging as an option will be cheaper than the Bolt with mostly non-free, less capable, and less prevalent CCS.

                    2. ClarksonCote says:

                      Actually I did, it’s not free.

                      And CCS will soon be much larger and prevalent than Tesla-specific chargers. It’s simple economics.

                  3. Pushmi-Pullyu says:

                    ClarksonCote said:

                    “Oh, and deliveries for many won’t be until mid-2018…”

                    That seems overly optimistic. It’s likely that volume production of the Model ≡ won’t even start until mid-2018, at best. Even for those with a current reservation, most will likely have to wait until 2019, or even later.

                    1. HN says:

                      Tesla indicates the first deliveries will be to current Model S and X owners, the next will be to customers in California and west coast, then it will spread to the east. Oversea and specially the right hand drive cars will be the least priority.

                      So people in west coast have a good chance to get their hands on Model 3 in mid to late 2018.

                2. Silent Lurker says:

                  Phillip how many 250-3000 mile trips in a year do you drive? If you take an average of six you would be doing way above most people. I own a MS Tesla and it has never been supercharged. I live only 8 miles from a SC. Why? Because anything 200 miles or more I fly.

              2. an_outsider says:

                +1. I agree with your reading

            2. Kdawg says:

              I think this has been discussed at length, regarding *free* charging on the Model 3. As I understand it, it will have the hardware for Supercharging, but may not be activated unless you pay for it. On Tesla’s website it just says “Supercharging Capable”, not included for free.

              1. ss says:

                I hope it is not free. We need a market for charging far more than we need “free”. Charge what it is worth.

              2. TomArt says:

                As someone else posted on another thread, there is a formal reply from Tesla Motors on a social media site stating that whether it will be free has not been formally announced (determined?).

            3. mr. M says:

              The Model 3 is supercharging enabled. Meaning all hardware from the start, but there seems to be a inital fee to activate.

            4. SparkEV says:

              Often people tout “free supercharging” or “one time fee” as a plus. It’s a HUGE minus. In fact, that’s the only major negative with Model3 if they offer it “free”.

              Imagine half a million model 3 using Superchargers for their daily charging how crowded it’ll be when you really need it. People will simply not charge at home and pay when they could get it for free at local supercharger. Prepay is the same thing; they’d want to get their money’s worth at Supercharger.

              1. MikeM says:

                Agree absolutely.

                Pay-as-you-go/pay-per-use would encourage “of necessity” charging and discourage leeches from hogging the charging stations.

                Cost parity with gasoline (however that can be arranged) would be a good start.

                1. Nom de Plume says:

                  Completely agree. Look at how we use our rechargeable devices now: we plug them in whenever we can. I practically panic if my cellphone is at 50%. It’s just the way we’ve conditioned ourselves.

                  “Free unlimited charging” will only result in people pulling into a charger whenever they’ve got a few spare minutes to kill, not when they actually need it.

                2. zzzzzzzzzz says:

                  This is unrealistic. You can’t expect cost parity with gasoline at this stage. Maybe some decade later. Add capital costs, depreciation and it will be much higher than gasoline.

                  1. Pushmi-Pullyu says:

                    Oh, stop with the EV bashing already.

                    The main selling point for EVs is that the operating cost per mile is already much lower than it is for gasmobiles, in most areas. That will only improve as EVs become more common, and the economics of scale tips ever more in the EV’s favor.

                    If you want to convince anyone with your pro-Big-Oil propaganda, try sticking to the truth.

              2. Rightofthepeople says:

                I agree completely. It is human nature to want to get your money’s worth. Look at how much people force themselves to eat when at a buffet. I really hope Tesla works out a pay for use fee structure for supercharging the M3. Otherwise the superchargers will be overcrowded and their usefulness deminished.

              3. Nick says:

                It’s only a problem if Tesla doesn’t keep up with demand.

                Charging at a 40 stall supercharger sounds awesome. 🙂

                1. Bill Howland says:

                  “40 stall supercharger”.

                  Assuming a slight demand factor can be assumed for that many cars (its reasonable), then about a 50 stall supercharger at the current 60/120 kw sizing would be the largest my utility would allow without very substantial and expensive construction.

                  If the model 3 sells as indicated, I bet there are plenty of 50 stall superchargers – Provided Wall Street still loves Tesla.

                  50 is about the limit most utilities would allow with the current inexpensive construction- and with all the hundreds of thousands 3’s sold, they will be busy.

                2. Someone out there says:

                  As far as I know, Tesla doesn’t own the land of many (most? all?) Supercharger stations. They make a deal with the land owner to convert a part of an existing parking lot for Tesla chargers. I think very few landowners would be interested in dedicating their entire parking lot to Tesla only.

            5. zzzzzzzzzz says:

              Model 3 is not going to be for sale for years. What is the point talking about some fantasy MSRP when you don’t even know what options you will need to add to make the car useful? By the time you will be able actually drive that $35k Model 3 (if), GM may be releasing facelifted Bolt version, and Nissan isn’t going to sleep forever too. And GM typically isn’t selling cars exactly at MSRP either.

              1. Pushmi-Pullyu says:

                So your argument is that the Model ≡ is vaporware, and that GM or Nissan have better vaporware?

                😀 😀 😀

                Tesla bashers are getting so desperate it’s downright hilarious!

              2. super390 says:

                But it’s just as speculative that GM will meet demand for the Bolt if it’s as good as you seem to think it is. What if they really can’t deliver more than 50,000 a year, and LG, the real supplier for the Bolt, isn’t prepared to go further? What happens when 100,000 people try to buy one?

          2. Kdawg says:

            All the L2 chargers by me are free.
            (no DCFC’s by me though)

          3. ffbj says:

            In this particular case that is correct.
            SC capable does not mean free. I think it will be an option. I am not sure how much it will be and what model,per use, blanket fee, etc… they will use.

            There have been various promotions Nissan did one where you got free charging for a time.

        2. mike w says:

          Other web sites are saying The Model 3 can supercharge but free access has not been promised yet.

      3. scott franco (the evil EV owning republican) says:

        “About half of the US is covered with enough CCS charging station to make traveling long distances in the Bolt, with it’s 200 mile range, very practical.”

        It is not practical to travel long distances where you have to stop and charge for an hour every 2 1/2 hours. Sorry, it just isn’t.

        1. Beta995 says:

          Yes, the Bolt can’t be used for drug running from New York to Florida. Get a Prius.

          1. TomArt says:

            Aww, man!

            😀

        2. Rightofthepeople says:

          I dunno. It may not cover every use case, but it certainly covers many. I live in Georgia and we typically drive about 6 hours to the beach in Florida, SC, or AL. That’s 6 hours of driving time with 1 stop for gas and a meal and 1 more stop (if I’m lucky) for a bathroom break. Often its 2 more bathroom breaks. If (huge if) there are CCS chargers at all 3 stops I could probably make that trip in a Bolt in the same time as a gas mobile. Maybe, or the bathroom breaks might go from 15 minutes to 30 instead.
          Of course it’s academic because there is NO WAY I could fit my family of 4 and all of our stuff in a Bolt for the trip. We would need 2 Bolts!

          1. zzzzzzzzzz says:

            Bolt has 90.3 Ft3 passenger volume. You really taking too much stuff with you if it doesn’t fit.

        3. Pushmi-Pullyu says:

          scott franco said:

          “It is not practical to travel long distances where you have to stop and charge for an hour every 2 1/2 hours. Sorry, it just isn’t.”

          Indeed. The slow charging time of the Bolt is a significant hit to it being a compelling EV.

          Sure, there are those who won’t object to waiting an hour. But let’s keep in mind that most Americans aren’t willing to wait more than 15 minutes for something, as a general rule. So that’s going to be a pretty small market segment that doesn’t mind the significant extra waiting time.

          However, there seems to be a significant percentage of the EV owner market that never drives the EV past the halfway point, and so never needs to charge anywhere other than home. For that segment, the Bolt should be a lot more attractive. And if GM only plans to make 20k-50k cars per year, then I doubt they’ll have any problem at all selling them.

          Frankly, I think the idea of “Bolt vs. Model ≡” as though it’s a cage-match fight is pretty silly. GM has no intention of making and selling the Bolt in large numbers; Tesla has every intention of doing so with the Model ≡. Sure, there will be some cross-shopping between the cars, but hopefully both will compete far more with gasmobiles than they do with each other.

          Bottom line: So long as Tesla and GM can both sell all the Model ≡’s and Bolts they make, then any “competition” between them is rather irrelevant. The idea of competition may make for interesting articles, but sales of either car are unlikely to have any impact on the income of the other company.

      4. Aaron says:

        There are no CCS stations within a 200 mile radius of my house. L2 and CHAdeMO, yes, but no CCS. (D/FW area)

        1. Texas FFE says:

          There is a CCS charger at Grapevine Mills Mall. There are also a half dozen CCS chargers in Austin that are within 200 miles of DFW. With the 200 mile range of the Bolt you could drive from Oklahoma City, OK to Galveston, TX charging only at CCS stations all the way.

          I was told by a EVgo representative that all the DCFC chargers in Texas are going to get CCS by the end of the year.

        2. MWMTyhon says:

          I also spoke with an EVgo spokesperson a few weeks ago who was very excited about their future expansions. He said by the release of the chevy Bolt most, if not all, EVgo stations will be updated to offer CCS.

          They started with a location near DFW airport in Grapevine. I have a Chevy Spark EV in Addison and am patiently waiting for my local EVgo station to upgrade!

    3. ClarksonCote says:

      “Without a high-speed charging network the Bolt…”

      CCS stations are expanding at a very nice rate in the US. Just check out plugshare.com.

      In fact, even today, I can make it to my hometown in a Bolt EV, but not a Tesla Model 3.

      1. Steven says:

        …Tesla joined the CCS club this year. They will at the very least offer adapters, like they do for CHAdeMO DCFC. Tesla will be the only vehicle capable of charging from all 3 fast charging standards shortly. If you want to charge your Tesla slowly at 50kWh

        1. Pushmi-Pullyu says:

          Tesla joined a CCS association in Germany after it became apparent that Germany probably will institute a law or regulation requiring that future Supercharger locations include a (single) CCS charger.

          I think we should be cautious about reading much into that. This doesn’t look like something Tesla is doing voluntarily.

      2. TomArt says:

        Current CCS capability isn’t “fast”. SCs are fast. That’s the reason.

        Now that CCS is finally catching up to Tesla, the situation will change favorably, particularly for Tesla owners.

    4. Leptoquark says:

      I suggest you look at the national Plugshare map and view only the DC Combo sites. Yes, they aren’t uniformly spread evenly over the country like the superchargers are, but the coasts, with the majority of the population, are fine and the interior is growing. The DC Fast charging infrastructure won’t be that big a problem.

    5. Jacked Beanstalk says:

      You overestimate the usefulness of the SC network. It’s the solution for some road trips but for many other trips there just aren’t any SCs on the route.

      1. TomArt says:

        That’s because they aren’t there – yet. Tesla Motors is building out a global network as fast as possible. They will be there fairly soon.

        1. Pushmi-Pullyu says:

          No, I don’t think so. Tesla has shown very little interest in building Superchargers anywhere except along primary highways.

          We really do need a universal EV charging standard, and for-profit EV super-fast charge stations. Only then will BEVs have a chance of being fully competitive with gasmobiles.

        2. zzzzzzzzzz says:

          Tesla simply doesn’t have enough capital to outbuild all other world automakers or charging network operators. Tesla can invest certain percentage of sales income and that is all, and they still have no capital left for Model 3 production expansion. It should be obvious that nobody is going to join proprietary network controlled by competitor when open standards are getting superior technically and have government support in Europe (or in Japan for Chademo). It is time for Musk cut on this walled garden approach, it is leading to dead end.

    6. Raymond says:

      Many people here talk about CCS charging being slow. I have heard recently that Tesla Motors has joined CCS. Together with BMW, Audi and Benz, they are altogether bringing the Level 3 superfast charging of CCS to California by mid-2017. Tesla will make an adapter for CCS Level 3 charging by 2018. Wait for 2nd Unveil announcement by late Summer of 2017.

      1. zzzzzzzzzz says:

        Just making an adapter isn’t serious joining. They are member of Chademo working group for long time just because they made few limited power adapters, but that is all. Adapters are hassle to use.

    7. Like_Budda says:

      I for one don’t really care about high-speed charging networks. Personally I’m more pleased with the significant increase in “out and back” range capability and mitigating winter’s effects.

      I live in the suburbs and the airport is 40 miles door to door. (80 miles round trip) Currently if I had to pick-up or deliver someone to the airport I couldnt really do that reliably year round with any electrified product other than a $85K model S or a PHEV like the Volt that will burn fuel to do so.

      The Bolt, (and other future longer range product obviously) is going to let me do more of my regular day-to-day driving without worrying about plugging in until I get home.

      I am so impressed with my Volt in terms of quality and EV and extended range functionality that I simply see no need to change brands. Plus my dealer is fairly close (30 miles) and tells me they plan on putting in a dual nozzle high-speed DC charging station at the dealership so that customers can stop in and top up in a few minutes if necessary.(free coffee and doughnuts) Perfect for me if I need to go a little further.
      I’M BOLTED DOWN!
      .LB

  2. David Murray says:

    As nice as the Tesla is, my wife and I have decided most likely we’ll be upgrading our EVs to a 2017 Volt and a 2018 Bolt EV. While the Tesla Model III is a great looking car, and I wouldn’t discourage anyone from buying one, it just doesn’t fit our wants and needs.

    My wife wants the Bolt EV because it will have a more accessible cargo area. I want the Volt because it is a slick looking car and has a driver-oriented instrument panel. In fact, that was pretty much the deal killer for me.

    I suspect the competitor that will be hurt the most by model-III sales is the BMW i3. In fact, I wouldn’t be surprised if the slump in i3 sales is a direct result of the model-III unveiling (or people who were waiting for the unveiling the last 2 months) Even once they upgrade the battery, the i3 is going to be a tough sell against Tesla.

    1. Ryan H says:

      The Bolt certainly has a more easily accessible cargo area (if you ignore the frunk of the Model 3) but good luck fitting more than three grocery bags back there… hatch + subcompact doesn’t exactly = cavernous cargo area

      1. SparkieVee says:

        Four paper grocery bags are a perfect fit in the back of a Spark EV. Are you trying to tell me that the Bolt is smaller? Or are you just making ridiculous statements to support your position that Tesla is better? Tesla is great, but I want a hatch that’s smaller than the S or X, so I’ll be waiting for a Model Y.

        1. mr. M says:

          Maybe your grocery bags are smaller than his?

          i think the therm grocery bag volume is nowhere really defined.

        2. mr. M says:

          By the way, i fully expect someone to fit at least 8-12 grocery bags into the trunk of the Bolt. As long as pilling is not prohibited…

          1. Ryan H says:

            poor, poor loaf of bread 😉

      2. Kdawg says:

        “hatch + subcompact doesn’t exactly = cavernous cargo area”
        ——–
        You’d be amazed what people fit into their Volts. 60″ TVs, wheelbarrows, sofa-chairs, 50 bags of mulch, etc…

        1. philip d says:

          With a towel to protect my dash from scratching I was able to fit 8 nested 10′ long light gauge metal studs tracks in my old Volt. Fed them to the front passenger windshield corner back diagonally to the back left corner of the hatch.

        2. Aaron says:

          I should show you the thread where someone put TWO 55-gallon drums into their i-MiEV!

      3. Pushmi-Pullyu says:

        Ryan H said:

        “hatch + subcompact doesn’t exactly = cavernous cargo area”

        The Bolt certainly has a lot more passenger cabin space than a “subcompact”, and I question that even “compact” is appropriate. It seats five, and from the specifications, the passenger cabin seems quite roomy; more like a mid-size car as far as passenger space goes.

        Plenty of cargo space if you fold the rear seats down, and the hatchback gives easy access.

      4. zzzzzzzzzz says:

        You can fit more than the car suspension will handle if you fold down rear seats in any case. Both are not trucks, they won’t keep up

        Hatchback has obvious advantage over sedan when you need to fit something bulky.

    2. R.S says:

      I would even say, on a technical level, its the other way around. The Bolt is very similar in size and practicality to the i3. The only thing that connects the i3 and the Model 3 is the brands perceived values, but thats certainly not enough. A Ford Fusion does not compete with a Chevy Sonic, just because both companies are partially defined through big Pick-Ups and muscle cars.

      And I would wait for the 3s final design, the boot might change, but it seems like you have some time to make your decision.

    3. franky_b says:

      I have an i3 and as for the Model S, the M3 doesn’t allow me to go where I go with my i3. The reason? Tesla’s supercharger network isn’t mature enough in my area (Quebec) with 2 but only badly situated (you don’t stop recharging when you still have 2/3 of your battery) and I can’t reach my final destination. And if I got to Ikea, I will put more stuff in my i3 that I can put in the Tesla.

      You all want to just make it about range, and yet it isn’t. Even with what some you call the limited range of the i3, I only need that extra range when I leave town and when I do, the i3 is quick to recharge and go. (stopping 3 times for a 20min or stopping 1 time for 60min, it’s same at the end)

      By 2018, the i3 will be at it’s second battery upgrade. Which will bring close to the 200 miles treshold, not bad for what will be a 4 years old design. The i5 will be close to be available as well.

      And this post is just a click bait. The i3, the Leaf 30kWh are available today.

      The Model 3 is a may be in 2018 if you are first in line in USA, everybody else it will be more 2019… that 3 years from now. If Tesla created an Osborn effect for entire EV market, then the M3 is a bad car as it doesn’t help reducing CO2 level today, but only in 3 years.

    4. TedFredrick says:

      A good test of cargo space is a chair. There is no way to fit a chair in the Model 3. Elon says you can fit a bike in there but I will believe it when I see someone do it without scratching the car.I put my money down but my wife said the car is a non starter because of the trunk. I will have to wait for the SUV. The lack of the hatch is one of the reasons I got rid of my BMW 3 series. I am 54 and the thought of going head first into a trunk with a small opening doesn’t make my day.

      1. Pushmi-Pullyu says:

        TedFredrick said:

        “Elon says you can fit a bike in there but I will believe it when I see someone do it without scratching the car.”

        Anyone worried about keeping his car from getting scratches, or tears in the upholstery, would certainly put in a tarp or blanket before loading in a bicycle. What’s the big deal? Why make an issue of it?

        I hope the average person living in first-world countries has not really gotten that lazy!

    5. Raymond says:

      Me too, I like the sleek looking Model 3, but it has a small access to the trunk area. I like the Bolt for the bigger hatchback opening. People downsizing from SUVs will also like the Bolt more. Too bad, Elon Musk doesn’t make a hatchback optional for the Model 3. I may have to withdraw my deposit if the Bolt will be able for upgrades later to the new CCS Level 3 charging standard by 2018.

  3. Eric says:

    Don’t just look at the cars, look at the whole picture.

    In the one corner, an old skool car manufacturer with just a simple electric car of which all defining components (motor, electronics and most importantly the battery) were developed and will be supplied by LG. Yearly production target is 30K units. GM only supplies ‘gliders’, empty shells, and has very little control over numbers, due to its dependance on LG. For the coming decades, GM has huge sunk costs in dino juice cars.

    In the other corner, the new kid on the block. Has a habit of coming up with compelling products, keeps everything in-house (notably batteries – see Gigafactory), supplies not just a simple car but one with autonomous features, a compelling fast charging infrastructure and energy independence opportunities as well. Will have the ability to go all-out on just EV production in the coming decade and has no boat anchors like thousands of ICE engineers, sunk costs, customers and dealers with ICE paradigms.

    GM lacks vision and strategy. Tesla is definitely going to have difficulties meeting expectations in the coming few years. But if GM had had the number of reservations for the Bolt that Tesla just received for the Model 3, they would have even bigger problems than Tesla may ever have.

    I know who I’m betting on. 🙂

    1. vdiv says:

      Nissan 😉

      1. mr. M says:

        yes, me too 😀

    2. scott franco (the evil EV owning republican) says:

      Its very true. The market is shaping up with Tesla as Apple with the Iphone. Now we just need to find out who will be Samsung.

      1. MTN Ranger says:

        LG

        1. Jychevyvolt says:

          Bingo

      2. Pushmi-Pullyu says:

        BYD.

    3. Bll Howland says:

      1). Tesla uses outside suppliers, such as the asian motor in my roadster, and the Mercedes steering wheels for the S.

      2). GM was prepared to make far more Volts than actually sold. 30,000 is a cautious starting number for the BOLT. Seeing the ‘3’ got 10X this, they may be reconsidering their initial number – mainly since the bolt will be saleable for over a year before the ‘3’.

      I haven’t seen a BOLT in person, but to me it seems to have all the things people were complaining to GM about previous EV’s.

      1). The price is right ($30,000 after fed credit).
      2). Goes over 200 miles (many will go farther – based on previous GM estimates of previous vehicles – they don’t rate their cars like ford, hyundai, or dare I say, even Tesla. FHT all 3 had to ‘modify’ their initial ranges and the last 2 had to give out debit cards).

      3). 56 cubic feet of cargo space with the rear seats folded. This is the CUV people have been asking for.

      4). Industry standard fast charging system a small extra cost option. Decent level 2 charging rate – not 15 amps as everyone complains about, but 30-32, so home wallboxes can be fully utilized as well as most public wallboxes.
      As mentioned CCS is showing up in more and more places, and ultimately does not look like a major problem.

      5). GM’s history of reliability with their plug-in vehicles has been excellent, as has their battery – namely NO DEGREDATION. Tesla cannot make that claim, and neither can Ford nor Nissan.

      If the bolt is representative of gm’s reliability wit their other plug in products (volt, sparkev, elr) then it is a certainly the car will *NOT* end up on Consumer Reports’ Not Recommended list. One other car maker here cannot make that claim.

      1. TomArt says:

        There is no such thing as a battery not degrading with use – an off-limits electronically controlled buffer would give the illusion, but battery technology isn’t that good.

        1. Bill Howland says:

          Sounds like Sour Grapes to me. It is literally true that GM cars suffer no apparent degredation to date, even when driven 100k miles on electric and 300,000 miles total.

          No other manufacturer has done this. How they in fact accomplish this by buffering, etc, is an irrelevancy to the car buying public. I don’t know precisely how they do it, and only a nerdy perfectionist would care.

          1. Pushmi-Pullyu says:

            Bill Howland said:

            “It is literally true that GM cars suffer no apparent degredation to date…”

            You stated that much too broadly. You mean Volts have not suffered any apparent degradation to the battery pack, to date. GM’s Spark EV? I’m guessing not so much.

            It’s good that you specified “to date”. The question isn’t whether or not Volts will eventually show degradation, but when. Let’s remember the the oldest Volts are less than five years old.

            1. Pushmi-Pullyu says:

              Correction: Let’s remember the oldest Volts are a bit over five years old.

              (Guess I’m living in the past! 😉 )

            2. Bill Howland says:

              I’m not trying to make a brief for GM, nor am I trying to make a brief for Tesla, even though I have said positive things about both manufacturers in the past.

              I am saying I like GM’s conservative description of the actual product, the one I’d actually consider buying.

              The fact that the REAL 2011 volt did not

              1). Go 50 miles. on battery.
              2). Look like a Camero z-28.
              3). Have a range of 550 miles or whatever since they had to go with a 1/2 size gas tank.

              What the final version does is far more important than the initial concept vehicle. I’m just glad they did finally come out with something.

              All GM batteries will wear out in time. Thankfully, that appears to be a very long time away. Volt owners are having no troubles in general, while ford focus owners are ‘starting’ to notice trouble, and early Nissan owners, especially in Tucson, are upset.

              My Roadster offered me no surprises on the battery front – it decreased its capacity relatively ‘on cue’, which I compensated for by changed camber, and LRR tires to get the range back up, – to the extent that even TESLA was interested as to which tires I selected to get back my mileage.

    4. Raymond says:

      As a shareholder of Tesla Motors since $55 a share, I definitely like your points about Tesla. Chevrolet should have done what Tesla has done, let people pre-order and make a fanfare for the debut of Bolt, but they did not. Now, it is harder for them to see what the demand is for Bolt. But, based on me, my family and relatives reaction to both Bolt and Model 3. Both EVs are equally well-received. The Bolt does have an easier access to the trunk area, giving it an advantage for versatility and user-friendliness. Model 3 with upgraded Supercharging for life will make many happy that they will not have to pay for charging in the future. Auto-pilot, does anyone know if the Bolt has no auto-pilot features which may be up-gradable in the future (I mean after purchase)? I haven’t read things regarding this… For now, Tesla does have the advantage of auto-pilot, but will have to see what they charge for the software in order to turn on the feature though.

      1. Pushmi-Pullyu says:

        It’s notable that the Bolt won’t even have ACC (Adaptive Cruise Control). Seems pretty clear GM has no intention of putting sophisticated driver assist features (such as Tesla’s “Autopilot”) into the Bolt.

        A far as future upgrade-ability… only Tesla does that. If and when GM starts doing that, you can be sure they’ll announce it quite loudly. Since they haven’t said anything about doing that for the Bolt, it’s a pretty sure bet they won’t.

        Traditionally, auto makers don’t want to sell you an upgrade to your old car. They only want to sell you a new car. I don’t expect that to change soon, if ever.

    5. evcarnut says:

      As Ed McMahon would say to Johnny., “You Sir, Are correct Sir!

  4. William says:

    I really like the Bolt, but will not buy a Chevy.

    1. Big Solar says:

      +100. GM is a dirty company with a tainted past.

      1. SparkieVee says:

        And what car company besides Tesla isn’t? GM will be around for many years whether you buy from them or not. I’d rather encourage them to sell EVs.

        1. HN says:

          If Federal Government didn’t bail out GM in 2008 with $50,000,000,000 (Fifty Billion Dollar), do we have GM today ?

      2. Kdawg says:

        In what way? Simply the fact they make gas cars like every other company *besides* Tesla?

        1. Ambulator says:

          No, it is the court cases and the lobbying to keep Tesla out of markets. GM shouldn’t be involved.

          1. Kdawg says:

            Was asking Big Solar.

    2. scott franco (the evil EV owning republican) says:

      I admit I have had issues with GM (my first car was a vega–enough said). But those issues were with engines. EVs tend not to have the same number of repair issues.

      1. Bonaire says:

        My family has been driving Chevy and Cadillac since the early 1960s. Very few problems. Had far more problems with Dodge/Chrysler products. I will say Mazda has good products and their Mazda6 using the Ford engine was very good last decade. I’m now in a Volt and keep wanting to see GM make more plug-ins. Volt is well done and Gen-2 is even better. If Bolt is great, that’s fine but it’s small and us “big Americans” need a CUV-sized plug-in and soon. Why shoot for small cars when the majority of current customers buy larger vehicles? This is one reason why Tesla went big with the Model S. They knew a 5% larger sedan than was needed would make a statement if they also filled it with a huge amount of batteries.

    3. Nemo says:

      So, lease then?

    4. Jacked Beanstalk says:

      Chevrolet makes good cars. The Chevrolet Volt is the most reliable car in it’s class. It’s a freakin’ ROCK and if you google you’ll find numerous reports of Volts with 200,000+ miles.

      ecomento dot com/2014/05/13/chevrolet-volt-among-the-most-dependable-cars-money-can-buy/

      http://insideevs.com/chevy-volt-tops-j-d-power-three-year-dependability-study/

  5. Texas FFE says:

    As I’ve posted before, the Model 3 and the Bolt are very different cars. The Model 3 is a compact or mid size sedan where as the Bolt is a compact utility vehicle. Even though the Bolt and the Model 3 might have similar cargo capacity, due to the Model 3 being a sadan and having a frunk, the cargo capacity of the Bolt appears much more functional.

    Many people will prefer the utility of the Bolt. One thing I’m hoping for though is that GM will add autonomous features on the Bolt to better compete with the Model 3. I would really like to see the Bolt available with Adaptive Cruise Control and Lane Centering options.

    One thing that really gets me though is the Model 3 having trailering capabilities. If the Bolt doesn’t offer trailering capabilities this one feature alone might make me buy a used Model 3 off of one of you scalpers so I don’t have to wait two years for a Model 3 delivery. If I could purchase a reasonably priced EV with trailering capabilities I could get rid of my ICE SUV, reducing my stable by one vehicle, and go all electric.

    1. Ryan H says:

      Sorry, the Bolt is NOT a CUV… the Bolt is nearly the exact same size as the Chevy Sonic hatchback, clearly a compact car… but I must agree, comparing a Model 3 (mid-size) to the Bolt is absurd, the Model 3 is going to beat it in every category except time to market

      1. Texas FFE says:

        Actually the Bolt has been officially classified as a CUV. All the media reports are calling the Bolt a CUV. Google it.

      2. Kdawg says:

        Bolt external dimensions are bigger than a Sonic. Interior cargo room & passenger room are also bigger.

      3. Ryan H says:

        yeah, i know how to use google… i also know how to look into it myself and not just follow the lead of journalists and marketers… the EPA classifies it as a “Small Wagon” and at best it is a sub-compact CUV

        Bolt wheelbase 102.4 – Sonic 99.4
        Bolt Length 164 – Sonic 159
        Bolt width 69.5 – Sonic 68.3
        Bolt cargo volume 16.9 – Sonic 19

        Bolt front headroom 39.7 – Sonic 38.7
        Bolt front legroom 41.6 – Sonic 41.8
        Bolt rear headroom 37.9 – Sonic 38.1
        Bolt rear legroom 36.5 – Sonic 34.6

        1. Kdawg says:

          I think another big one is cargo space w/the seats down.

          Sonic = 47.7 ft³
          Bolt = 56.6 ft³

          1. Jay Cole says:

            Ryan,

            Not getting into the discussion specifically, but the petrol Sonic is going through a generational refresh…of which we are seeing first in the form of the Bolt EV.

            AFAIK, there is no specs on the refreshed petrol Sonic (unless we missed it…gas cars aren’t really “our thing”), GM just officially rolled it out 3 weeks ago at the NYAIS, the GM talking points at the time was “the 2017 Sonic reinforce its position as a fun, efficient small car”, the Bolt EV is certainly an “a like” vehicle.

      4. pjwood1 says:

        The Model 3 moves passengers forward, its shorter and will house the FWD unit for most who order it (Because we can’t expect alarmed car buyers will return to RWD). As a result, total space specs could = Bolt but represent much less convenient access. Game out what that big piece of glass is going to do, as you slide surf board and groceries inside.

        1. HN says:

          Tesla Model 3, as with other Tesla vehicles, will come with RWD as standard with AWD as a $5000 option.

          Source: http://www.carscoops.com/2016/04/tesla-model-3-will-be-rwd-awd-5k-option.html

          “Following last Thursday’s launch in LA, he has revealed that the Model 3 will come with rear-wheel drive as standard and all-wheel drive versions, with motors at the front and the back, will be “a lot faster” and will cost less than $5,000 to upgrade.”

    2. scott franco (the evil EV owning republican) says:

      The bolt is a good design. Thats why I would prefer they get their charging act together – fast. Otherwise we will be a two tesla family.

      1. ffbj says:

        Congratulations! It’s a Model III, have a cigar. Long gestation period.

        Not to be a putz, but isn’t your moniker a bit redundant? j/k

        1. scott franco (No M3 FAUX GRILL!) says:

          Not really. Liberals need things repeated, over and over again, slowly.

          1. TomArt says:

            A true conservative will opt for the most efficient, resource-conserving option.

            It’s your bought-and-paid-for dogmatic political stablemates that ruin it for the rest of you.

          2. ffbj says:

            What was that?

          3. super390 says:

            Whereas this is pointless with Senator James Inhofe, because he never, ever learns… even when his state starts quaking.

  6. tftf says:

    “struggle to find any significant ways the Tesla Model 3 is inferior to the Chevy Bolt EV”

    Cargo space and thus usability for a family?

    Both the frunk and the little trunk (see opening in unveil, tiny) of the Model3 prototype look very constrained.

  7. leafowner says:

    My bet is the Leaf II will enter this fray within the 2 year window as well.

    1. Texas FFE says:

      The FFE is nearing the end of it’s production cycle. I still expect Ford to come out with a long range EV in the near future all though I’m beginning to believe Ford plans to wait. I think Ford will wait to retool until the EV tax credits have expired for GM, Tesla and Nissan.

      That way Ford won’t have to compete with other manufacturers receiving EV tax credits when it introduces its longer range EV. That’s bad news for Ford lovers but a good financial decision for Ford. We all know that Ford is in the business of manufacturing cars to make money.

      1. Josh says:

        The Energi vehicles are tearing through the credits as we speak. Ford doesn’t seem real interested in making a platform dedicated for EVs yet.

        I do expect them to make some EVs with the same business strategy as the Energi line at some point. Probably 2018 when the ZEV credit crunch happens in CA.

  8. Mister G says:

    Bolt or Model 3? MODEL 3 FOR ME

    1. iwatson says:

      Bolt or Model 3? Bolt for me!

    2. ffbj says:

      I would have to go with Mister G on this one, though the Bolt has some appeal, I don’t think it will compete with the the Model III.

    3. alohart says:

      Bolt or Model 3? Neither! i3 for me. I like the compact CUV functionality but don’t like front wheel drive or a heavy steel body, and I don’t need 200 miles range and the heavy weight of a huge battery pack.

      So we need lots of different EV choices. We’re slowly getting some of those choices.

      1. HN says:

        Some bought Pontiac Aztek for the same reason(s) you like i3. They didn’t care for the Aztek styling just like you.

  9. sveno says:

    I find that the Bolt has could be more reliable but on the other hand I doubt it will have a longer usable life (manufacturer/aftermarket support) than a Tesla.

    1. Kdawg says:

      GM has been supporting its Volt owners for ~6 years. They even assign you a personal Volt adviser. I don’t see any reason that this wouldn’t continue with the Bolt. I expect there to be several generations of Bolts.

      1. sveno says:

        I see what you mean but what about software updates and new features? Im not saying it will be bad but I really doubt they care as much as Tesla when it comes to cars already on the road.
        Same thing with the Leaf really. One day I will have to hack the infotainment system to keep it usable.

        1. Kdawg says:

          My Gen1 Volt did get 1 OTA update, I forget what it was. And Mary Barra seemed to hint at OTA updates for the Bolt EV. We shall see.

          A lot of features though, require the hardware to be in the car, so OTA won’t help.

          1. sveno says:

            Well I’d argue most people would really appreciate if their 10yr old car would have usable navigation (& charging locations), music options & work with their (old) phone over the internet.

            It would really suck if your car ends up like the older Google Nest smart thermostat – they pull the plug and your gadget becomes a brick on the wall.

            Thats what I meant that I trust Tesla in this regard but GM not that much as I feel they would stop their software engineers from putting too many goodies in existing cars when they can use it as a selling point for new cars.

            1. sveno says:

              I do hope GM proves me wrong. We’ll see after 11 years? 🙂

      2. That would be more like tolerating Volt owners.

        Volt advisers are no magic wand with Chevrolet dealers.

        1. Kdawg says:

          Not sure what you are saying, but Volt advisers do not work at dealerships. They are employed by GM.

          1. ????? I’m not reading the part where it says Volt Advisors work at the dealership??????

            You do understand what their intended purpose was supposed to be right?

            To make it more clear…… If a Chevrolet dealer does not want to being servicing Volts. There is Nothing a Volt Advisor can do to force them to, Pretty simple.

  10. Justin says:

    And how many of those new Model 3 owners will be able to take advantage of the $7500 Federal Tax credit?

    Not that many…

  11. M. St. John says:

    I hope Nissan makes a strong entry into this field

    1. Larry says:

      If they finally install a TMS!

      1. Pushmi-Pullyu says:

        Ya think? Nissan needs to be hit with a clue hammer! 😉

  12. marcel_g says:

    I’m inclined to consider Bolt/Leaf/Volt/Outlander phev when they all become available this year, and just rent a gasmobile when I need to make a longer trip if necessary. (No DC fast charging here in Ontario)

    Then in 3 years see if Model 3s are available and if it’s worth it to switch.

    1. scott franco (the evil EV owning republican) says:

      Sorry, I already reserved your Model 3.

      1. TomArt says:

        😀

  13. CDAVIS says:

    Amazing… the OP publishes an article “GM Battles Tesla? Chevrolet Bolt EV VS Tesla Model 3” that has no mention of the Tesla Supercharging Network!

    How is it that so many automotive writers, analysts, pundits, and seemingly also car makers do not have an understading about the profound growing competitive advantage Tesla is creating for itself each time Tesla adds another supercharger to its charging network?

    The Tesla Supercharger network is the proverbial Elephant-In-The-Room.

    1. ffbj says:

      Mr. Peanut…be afraid, be very afraid.

    2. scott franco (the evil EV owning republican) says:

      Before I got an EV, I saw many articles to the fact that EVs slowly charged from either 110v or 220v chargers. It was a surprise to me that Chademo existed. That was in 2012.

      The general press is still mostly ignorant of how EVs work. Not that much has changed.

  14. Phatcat73 says:

    Article should really be Bolt vs Leaf 2.0 as they will come out within months of each other. However if I was in the market, I’d look at leasing to keep my options open.

  15. Edward Tanas says:

    there are rumours that Elon Musk may open up the Supercharger network to other cars

    1. Kdawg says:

      He has always had that offer, but required the other car companies pay to support the network, and also make cars that can charge at a fast rate. So far no one has accepted this offer or made a car that can charge that fast (though Bolt is coming later this year).

      There was a rumor that a European company was talking with Tesla about using the SC network, but I never heard any more.

      1. TomArt says:

        I think the rumor was BMW, but then they got together with others and bought the German gov’t into mandating CCS.

        1. Kdawg says:

          Wasn’t the rumor “a non-German company”? I thought it was going to be Volvo myself, or someone like Bently, small niche luxury car.

    2. RobertM says:

      Would be awesome if Tesla could set up accounts for EV drivers, set up similarly to EZ Pass, regardless of company support. Sell us the adapter for our model and let us pay as we go. They get some additional funds and live up to the oft-mentioned ideal of EV expansion. If the companies don’t want to play, let us as individuals.

  16. I realy liked the original Honda Insite, and have sat in an EV1 in Madison, Wisconsin, back in 2007! If GM could bring back an upgrade EV1, with good Lithium batteries a d a 250 mile range, I would definitely consider that!

    However, I suspect, due to the high demand for the Model 3, Elon will be showing ‘Reveal Part 2’ sooner than planed, and may also show a early version of their Model ‘Y’ CUV, before GM starts shipping the Bolt!

    That could cut heavy into Bolt sales! GM would be having to buy more credits for CARB from Tesla!

    1. Kdawg says:

      Didn’t the Spark EV take care of any CARB credits GM needed? I’m guessing the Bolt will sell better than the Spark EV, so I don’t see credits as an issue.

    2. Pushmi-Pullyu says:

      I doubt a Tesla Model Y, possibly available in 4-5 years, is going to significantly impact near-term Bolt sales.

      Whatever else you can or can’t say for the Bolt, at least it will go into production before the Model ≡ does… altho unfortunately only limited quantity production.

  17. mememe says:

    Let’s try this….”I drive a Chevrolet”….”I drive a Tesla”. There is no doubt Tesla win. As a bonus, I don’t need to deal with the stealership.

    1. Kdawg says:

      First comment is subjective opinion. 2nd comment I agree with, however stealerships are good to have when you need them to fix your car. That will be an issue for me w/a Tesla.

  18. Kdawg says:

    Another differences I see is the seating height. The Bolt appears to have much higher seating which many prefer. The seats are also easier to get in/out of.

    I also like the new rear-view mirror in the Bolt, which has a 180 degree camera built into it. The Bolt will have 4 additional cameras for the birds-eye view, which Tesla does not have as well.

    I’m not a fan of the Model 3 interior, so I hope it will change by production (there have been rumors going both ways if it will or not).

  19. Jacked Beanstalk says:

    I see two advantages for the Bolt. The first is the hatchback configuration which improves cargo carrying capabilities. The biggest advantage is reliability. Tesla makes VERY unreliable cars while Chevrolet’s Volt is rated as having the highest reliability of any compact car on the road. If the Bolt is in the same ballpark on quality then it will be a rock compared to the Model 3.

    1. Aaron says:

      The “VERY” is overstated, especially compared to Chevy’s death-causing recalls (if you want to get into the whole FUD wars).

      1. ffbj says:

        Yeah, this is the new attack campaign against Tesla, that they are unreliable. Your consideration that it’s FUD is right on, as usual.

        1. Kdawg says:

          People putting anvils on their keychains (do cars even have keystarts anymore) is not the same as having to replace drivetrains, batteries, and multiple fit/finish issues.

          No campaign on my part, but real concerns as a Model 3 reservation holder.

          If you think it’s fake FUD just read about all the real-life issues at the Tesla Motors club.

          1. Pushmi-Pullyu says:

            Seriously, Kdawg? You’re gonna go there?

            Every discussion forum about cars has long discussions of issues and even cases of “lemons”. Including GM’s. Do we need to post links? I’m sure I can easily find hundreds.

            That the list of reported problems in Tesla cars is growing, is nothing more than an indication that Tesla is selling more cars.

            Let’s remember that Consumer Reports originally rated the Tesla Model S’s reliability as “above average” and then the next year as “average”, before finally lowering it to “below average”. If Tesla’s reliability was actually that bad, it never would have appeared on CR’s “recommended” list at all.

            Tesla bashers think they have finally, after many years and ever more laughably ridiculous assertions, finally found something real to complain about in Tesla cars. Well, it’s true that Tesla does need to work on its quality control, altho perhaps no moreso than most other “premium” badge auto makers. As has been noted, most cars with as many bells and whistles as the Model S (or X) have reliability problems.

            Asserting that Tesla’s cars have substantially below average reliability, let alone calling them “VERY unreliable cars”, is FUD, and nothing but.

    2. Pushmi-Pullyu says:

      Jacked Beanstalk said:

      “Tesla makes VERY unreliable cars while Chevrolet’s Volt is rated as having the highest reliability of any compact car on the road.”

      GM certainly deserves congratulations on making the Volt an extremely reliable car.

      But it’s rather an exaggeration to say that Tesla’s cars are “VERY unreliable”. Perhaps a bit below average reliability, and certainly Tesla needs to work on that, especially for the Model ≡.

      But “VERY unreliable” is quite an exaggeration.

    3. Rick Danger says:

      Hey Jacked, just for fun, Google GM engine problems.
      Then, when you’re feeling all warm and fuzzy, Google GM rust problems
      Then you can get fancy and Google specific cars, like GM cadillac xlr problems, GM Pontiac fiero problems, etc etc etc ad infinitum.
      The Volt is possibly the first car GM has built that they built right, in over 100 years.
      So, forgive me for not taking you seriously.

  20. Spider-Dan says:

    It is difficult to compare price on the Bolt and Model III. Based on Tesla’s history of delivering new products, the MIII could be delivered as late as 2020. Who knows what the price of the Bolt will be then?

    1. Tech01x says:

      Tesla has a history of developing and shipping ground breaking products, blending advanced technologies in new ways to bring about the best vehicles which happen to also be battery electric. Therefore they have been late as compared to their self imposed deadlines.

      The Model 3, on the other hand, has far less ambitious technology. Further, more of the advanced technologies are within Tesla’s control, including the newer cells.

      As a result, looking at the delays of their earlier products is not necessarily instructive for looking at the Model 3. In many ways, the number of firsts for each of their products thus far has been extraordinarily high. The Model 3 is not that ambitious from a new technology perspective.

      1. Spider-Dan says:

        The MIII requires the completion of the world’s biggest battery factory before deliveries will begin. I call that “ambitious.”

        1. Pushmi-Pullyu says:

          Elon says the Gigafactory project is ahead of schedule, and is not on the “critical path” for the Model ≡… meaning the Gigafactory is not holding anything up regarding getting the Model ≡ into production.

          1. Spider-Dan says:

            When it comes to when projects will be finished, Elon says lots of things.

            If you take those things at face value, then yeah, the Gigafactory will be completed on time, and the MIII will be delivered on time. Which will mark two historic achievements for Tesla as far as finishing things on time.

    2. HN says:

      ” Based on Tesla’s history of delivering new products, the MIII could be delivered as late as 2020.”

      The real first car Tesla designed/made was Model S, they didn’t have experience in the complexity of car manufacturing/testing and shipping so they were behind schedule.

      The second was Model X with falcon wing rear door and complicated rear seats caused it to be behind schedule
      again.

      Musk said that they learn from mistakes of the past, they will keep model 3 as simple as possible to keep it on schedule this time.

  21. Ambulator says:

    The Bolt has some compelling advantages for me. A hatchback is much more practical. I recently took a resin lawn chair home in my Volt, I don’t think I could have in the Model 3.

    The Bolt will also have blended braking. Sometimes heavy regeneration is nice, but most of the time I prefer blended braking. The Volt has both, and so will the Bolt.

    The Bolt will also have a painted roof. When I was learning to drive we had a Chrysler with a black roof and I said “never again”. It got too hot. I’m not about to change.

    The Bolt will also be available sooner. At my age that’s important.

    The Model 3 also has advantages. The Supercharger is a great benefit, while with the limited charge rate of the Bolt I don’t think I’ll even bother with the DC charge connector. The large front glass will make it easier to see traffic lights, too. The Model 3 is also cheaper. Still, not nearly enough for me to choose the Model 3.

    1. Kdawg says:

      “The Bolt will also have blended braking. Sometimes heavy regeneration is nice, but most of the time I prefer blended braking. The Volt has both, and so will the Bolt.”
      ——-
      Didn’t we learn the Bolt will NOT have blended braking from engineer Josh Tavel? As I understand it, it will be set up for 1 pedal driving with high regen, and also regen paddles. The braking from the pedal will all be friction braking.

      Correct me if I’m wrong.

      1. Kdawg says:

        Here’s a quote I found from Josh Tavel talking about the Bolt EV;

        – “No. Adaptive cruise control – no, you would need the blended brakes to do that and we didn’t want to do that with this car.”

        1. Ziv says:

          I think Tavern was talking about a very specific definition of blended braking because the Volt and Spark blend regeneration and friction braking all the time.

        2. Jeff N says:

          That quote about blended brakes and ACC never made any sense to me. Whatever it means, I wouldn’t necessarily assume it had anything to do with regenerative braking via the brake pedal.

        3. Texas FFE says:

          Regardless of what Mr. Tavel said, I think the Bolt will have ACC. We know the Bolt will have Emergency Stop and Regenerative Braking, it doesn’t make any sense not to combine those into ACC. What GM reps say and what GM does are not always the same, like the reps saying GM is not going to support charging infrastructure development when I know they do with the EVgo No Charge To Recharge program.

      2. Ambulator says:

        That was also my first impression from the article you linked to, but later on in the comments the author stated that “…the first half inch of brake pedal travel is exclusively regen braking”. That’s good enough for me.

        (We were both making comments there, but I guess you left before it was clarified.)

        1. Djoni says:

          He also said that the Bolt could be driven with one pedal and adds that you could control the regeneration with the paddle behind the steering to a complete stop.
          It’s all good for me.
          Regeneration isn’t that good on my Leaf and blending is not better.
          When you try to maximize the regeneration by using the brake pedal, at some point, the blending just get unstable, shifting some force between friction and regeneration and causing an uneven braking.
          I would prefer total regeneration via ultra capacitor, resistance or else.

          1. Ambulator says:

            You can in the Volt, too, although probably not as well as the Bolt will. It’s good to have the option.

    2. TomArt says:

      One of the drivers said that the Model 3 will have a body-color roof option, just as the Model S does (for how much of the roof, I don’t know).

      1. Pushmi-Pullyu says:

        Yes, but only for the middle roof panel. With that enormous rear window and what I think will be a panoramic windshield, looks like the solid roof area will be pretty small.

        Things could change between now and production, but my guess is that is pretty fixed.

  22. tom911 says:

    So many people saying that access to the Supercharger system with Model 3 makes it a long distance capable car. That will come with serious compromises using current technology.

    – Driving 2.5 to 3 hours and stopping to charge for 45 min is not my idea of a pleasant or feasible trip. This the reality of a Model S60 today. If they improve the charge speeds/tech, great, but that also means it will have to be rolled into the Model S and X first as they are the higher end customers who need to be kept happy.

    – Access to the the SC will cost money, no doubt about it. Perhaps Tesla will allow the higher end Model 3’s access for free when you buy the bigger battery. This will also allow you to charge faster making it more reasonable to use for longer trips.

    – There will not be enough Superchargers even at the announced build rate. Plan on waiting in line in busy areas like CA. Of course in three years when the Model 3 really ships maybe we’ll have a whole lot more.

    – The Bolt and Model S (200 mile cars) are not going to satisfy many people for long distance travel even with a decent charge network. Too much waiting time to charge your car. Can they be used a an ‘only’ car – yes, but it will mean major compromises for longer trips. Their real value is as a commuter and around town car. The ICE SUV many people need for family trips will remain in many people driveways along with the Bolt or Model 3.

    The Bolt and Model 3 (even with SC access) isn’t the final answer to a one car family but it’s a great step forward. Maybe that’s why GM hasn’t jumped on board to create a charging network. Battery technology needs to advance further so charge times can be reasonable.

    1. Tech01x says:

      You only need to charge 40-45 minutes if you need to make another hop. In other words, for many 150-250 mile one way journeys with destination chargers, one only needs a little bit to obtain enough cushion to comfortably make it to the destination. The most common amount to charge at a Supercharger is 30-35 kWh, or about half a full charge.

      Even if the Supercharger option costs the same $2,000 as it was on the Model S 60 kWh, we are then talking about $37,000 which is still cheaper than the Bolt. The Bolt won’t come with CCS standard either, so if that is $1,200, the Bolt is really then $38,700.

      Tesla is the only company that is aggressively building out charging stations in the U.S. for long distance travel. Further, any build outs of CHAdeMO can be leveraged with Tesla vehicles with a $500 option. That’s then $37,500, which is the same price as the base Bolt without CCS.

      The vast majority of people’s vehicular transportation needs the vast majority of the time would be satisfied with a Model 3. The convenience of having 150-200 miles of range every day without going to a gas station is a huge win for EVs. The occasional trip necessitates a longer break – most people can deal with that.

      1. tom911 says:

        Agreed, but thinking I’m going to drive 500+ miles on a road trip (SF to LA) using SC access is not really gonna fly with my family if I have to stop every 2.5 hours for 45 min to recharge.

        1. Kdawg says:

          This is a fun website to use for EV trip planning.

          https://www.evtripplanner.com/

      2. Kdawg says:

        “The Bolt won’t come with CCS standard either, so if that is $1,200, the Bolt is really then $38,700.”
        —————-
        We don’t have any official pricing info on options or trim levels with the Bolt EV, so this is just speculation.

        1. Texas FFE says:

          I believe the CCS option for the SparkEV is only $750, why does the option have to be $1,200 on the Bolt? Also BMW made CCS standard for the i3 in 2015, why can’t CCS come standard on the Bolt?

          1. Ambulator says:

            Because GM said it wouldn’t? Of course, they can still change their mind.

      3. Spider-Dan says:

        It doesn’t make sense to charge “just enough to reach your destination” on a road trip. Are you going to charge at your destination? If you’re taking a trip to Granny’s, not only will re-charging at 120V take (literal) days, but you are adding a sizable amount to her electric bill… especially if you’re charging during the day.

        I don’t see why anyone would leave a fast, free Supercharger with less than 80% charge when they know they have hundreds of miles of driving ahead of them; anywhere else you could charge would be slower, more expensive, or both. So in reality, you are looking at a 45 min layover every 3 hours, which is a pretty significant drawback compared to ICE.

        1. Tech01x says:

          $5 of electricity. You can reimburse her on the spot. Are your really goinng to drive hours to see granny and then turn right around and leave? Maybe… So then that time you charge longer. Reality is that people do have electricity where most people go, even if that means tapping into an oven, dryer, or campground or welding outlet. Installing a 14-50 outlet is pretty cheap in lots of places. As the EV revolution proceeds, getting a suitable 206/240 volt, 30 to 50 amp connection gets easier and easier to find.

          1. Spider-Dan says:

            $5 is going to get you enough range to get back to the Supercharger. But even so, I wouldn’t go to someone else’s house with the presumption of charging there any more than I would go to their house with the presumption of buying a bunch of PPV movies and handing them cash, or (in an earlier era) going to their house, racking up a long-distance bill, and handing them cash. It is an imposition; one that you can avoid by using the (free, faster) Supercharger.

    2. TomArt says:

      Breaks that long, at those intervals, are smarter and safer for the driver, and more comfortable for the passenger, particularly kids, where even the best-behaved get stir-crazy.

      I have 1 car now, and my Model 3 will be my only car, and I will have no trouble going 99.999% of where I want to go by road.

    3. Bill Howland says:

      Well, if Tesla starts making ‘3’s like Hotcakes, and Wall Street still agrees with their description of SC cost as ‘immaterial’, then I’d fully expect plenty of 50 stall superchargers to pop up in large malls and supermarkets all over the place.

      With the number of model 3’s reserved, if all these people don’t later change their minds and actually purchase the car, there will be many, many SC’s needed. As mentioned, 50 is still an economical number to provide – electric supply wise. Utilities won’t care as long as the long term draw doesn’t exceed 2500 kw.

  23. Model Tres says:

    Bolt: Ugly

    Tesla: Sexy

    next

    1. Texas FFE says:

      Well the girls want sexy until you marry them then they want ugly. And who controls the purse strings?

  24. Pushmi-Pullyu says:

    The article says:

    “…we still struggle to find any significant ways the Tesla Model 3 is inferior to the Chevy Bolt EV…”

    How about room in the passenger cabin? Surely, if nothing else, the Bolt at least has more head room in the back seat.

    I don’t know how the overall length of the cars compare, but certainly the Bolt has dedicated more of its length to passenger space. Sure, the Model ≡’s long nose does give it an extended crumple zone, and perhaps that will make it safer in a crash, but that comes with sacrificing passenger room.

    Now, that’s not to say that I think the Bolt is equal to the Model ≡, let alone superior to it, but it seems unfair to claim that the Model ≡ is better in every way.

  25. TomArt says:

    The trunk alone is evidence enough.

    However, about your passenger space concern – the front seats sit farther forward, since they put more legroom forward under the dash. The effective passenger space may end up being nearly the same.

    I don’t know if they had anyone 6’4″ in the back seat, but a few recorded test drives panned around and there seemed to be sufficient headroom in the back seat.

    We’ll have to wait for our own test drives, I guess…

    1. Pushmi-Pullyu says:

      TomArt said:

      “I don’t know if they had anyone 6’4″ in the back seat, but a few recorded test drives panned around and there seemed to be sufficient headroom in the back seat.”

      I’m guessing that (a) your post was a response to me, and that (b) what I quoted above, from your post, refers to the Model ≡. Hope that’s correct.

      As they say: “All I know is what I read, and half of that is wrong.” I’ve read that head room in the back seat of the Model S is somewhat limited — there have been complaints about that — and that the Model ≡ has one inch less headroom in the back seat. Doesn’t necessarily mean it’s true, but I’m assuming it is unless I see figures to the contrary.

  26. Beldelo says:

    It would be nice to see a poll here. I vote for the Bolt.

    1. Kdawg says:

      I need a lot more info first.

  27. MJP462 says:

    I think it is great, but I can’t believe how many people would rather buy a chevy than a tesla.

    1. Spider-Dan says:

      Not everyone is so wrapped up in badge evaluation. For example, many posters here prefer a Chevy to a BMW.

      1. tom911 says:

        It’s all about the right tool or car for the job. The Bolt is the right car for me and I’ll take it over the Model 3 which won’t ship for 2+ years. I like the interior room and functionality of the Bolt and don’t like the form over function that Tesla is so set on these days (Model X falcon doors, Model 3 glass roof, no CarPlay for instance).

        Prior to the current lease on my second Volt I hadn’t stepped foot into any GM dealership in 35+ years. Now after 50K miles in two Volts (45K electric) I’m singing the praises of the Volt powertrain and the car itself.

        I’ve had numerous higher end cars including two 911’s, MB SL55 AMG, BMW M5 and 3 series, and multiple Audi A6’s along with many Japanese cars. The Volt is as impressive as any of those cars as most Volt owners will tell you.

        I’ll most likely be getting a Bolt in the next year when my current lease expires and would choose it over a Model 3.

    2. Pushmi-Pullyu says:

      MJP462 said:

      “…I can’t believe how many people would rather buy a chevy than a tesla.”

      Oh, I can. People are generally reluctant to buy a car from a company with so little history. If anything, it’s amazing so many people would choose to buy a car from a company which has only been mass producing its own cars for about four years.

      Tesla has achieved a remarkably positive reputation in a surprisingly short time.

  28. Gibby says:

    The Bolt is ugly. End of story.

  29. bennyd says:

    The introduction of the Tesla model 3 will definitely but pricing pressure on GM’s Bolt. Glad for the positive trend.

  30. Craig Capurso says:

    Chevy make crap!!!!!!

  31. cynicus says:

    Looking for other differences:
    – Does the Bolt have a hitch option? And if it does, is it allowed to tow or just for carrying a cycle-rack?
    – Does the Bolt hatch open like a hatchback or similar to the Model 3 (i.e. a rectangular opening)?

    Tow hitch and hatchback loading bay would be a serious plus for any of those cars.

  32. Leaf says:

    Tesla hype is not really justified, the cars look good, acceleration and SC are superb but after 9 day rent of Model S i was dissapointed as a LEAF driver. The were several strange noises from motor and not good wind isloation abov 90 mph, don’t fit for a 100000 $ car. Chrome trim don’t hold, paint quality like a 20k $ car easy to scratch. Like Apple, you pay much but not better than a Samsung.

  33. Richardd962 says:

    Here is why the bolt will win the battle,
    1) there will be bolt’s on the road for at least two years before a single model 3 makes it out there.
    2) When they will realised that the model 3 they want is a lot more than 35,000.
    3)When people realise the number of problem that tesla owner have.
    GM will win it by a long run unopposed.

    1. arne-nl says:

      1) The interest that the Model 3 has shown will make people want to wait
      2) At least there IS something to want
      3) We’ll have to wait how the Model 3 compares to the Bolt.

      Most important thing why I think the Model 3 will win: buying a car is *not* a rational decision. People buy the car that they want to be seen in, that they feel good about. Right now, that seems to be the Model 3.

  34. Rick Danger says:

    The best deals will be had in a few years, when all the people who leased Bolts to tide them over ’til their Model ≡s arrive turn them back in.