Is Germany SLAMming The Door on CHAdeMO With SLAM Project? 400 DC Chargers By 2017

APR 15 2014 BY MARK KANE 54

Combo 2 inlet in Voxan WATTMAN

Combo 2 inlet in Voxan WATTMAN

Just a few days ago we reported on the largest DC fast charger deployment in Germany, but with just 50 or so CHAdeMO chargers, that project falls far behind the new one announced by Germany’s Ministry of Transport, automakers (BMW, Daimler, Porsche and Volkswagen) and EnBW utility at MobiliTec-Hannovermesse 2014.

400 DC quick charging points should be installed by 2017 across Germany by SLAM – “Schnellladenetz für Achsen und Metropolen“ project.

From different sources, we know that every point will have one quick charger – 50 kW – with CCS (Combo) plug compatible with BMW i3, VW e-up! and e-Golf. Additionally there will be 22 kW three phase Type 2 output. It is very unlikely that those charging points will get CHAdeMO plugs.

Launch and details of SLAM (potential CHAdeMO SLAMmer) probably will come out in full by fall of this year.

 

 

Categories: Charging

Tags: ,

Leave a Reply

54 Comments on "Is Germany SLAMming The Door on CHAdeMO With SLAM Project? 400 DC Chargers By 2017"

newest oldest most voted

It would be ok for Germany to set the standard, if they make and sell more plugins than everyone else. So far they are behind and they are late.

Ugh. I’d rather not have a de facto standards war chosen by market size. I’d like an industry-wide agreed upon standard. But I guess that is not happening (at least not yet).

The pictures shows the US plug for CCS. My understanding is that in Europe a Mennekes plug is used for CCS which does not look like that picture.

That’s not correct. Euro CCS is Mennekes plug with two additional pins for DC which is well shown on the picture.

That is the Euro Frankenplug, with additional DC combined on the bottom.

The US version has only 5 connections in a fully round socket. EU gets 7 terminals and a flat side on top.

Why the negative spin? This is good news! Germany is actively investing in their EV infrastructure. Maybe their automakers will, in turn, actually take EVs seriously rather than talk out of both sides of their mouths (I’m looking at you, VW).

Agreed, this is exelent news, the more chargers the better.
Sure chademo would be nice to, but these stationes will still work for most models (e-up, e-golf, bmw-i3, renault zoe and european teslas)

Yeah, after dragging their feet for a long time, the German car companies seem to have jumped into EVs big time. BMW has the i3 and i8. VW has the e-Up, the eGolf, and the GTE. Daimler has the Smart ED and the B Class EV. So all three car makers have at least 2 plug-ins.

VW doesn’t sell any significant volume and has no interest to do so.

I suspect you have no source to backup that claim, and early sales numbers for the e-up suggest you’re wrong. It’s selling better than the Leaf in Germany and close to the Leaf in Norway.

Have you noticed how VW designed the Golf platform from the ground up with EVs in mind? That’s an expensive undertaking, suggesting they do indeed to sell plug-in vehicles in large numbers.

What? There EV products are just now hitting market. Let us see how they price them and how they sell before drawing any conclusions.

My GUESS is that VW is just slowly easing into the plug-in space like Ford .. . competent but a little clumsy conversions for their pure EVs but with probably more focus on their plug-in hybrids. But that is just a guess/opinion. We’ll see.

Negative spin because at least a few writers at InsideEVs are not only pro-CHAdeMO but also anti-CCS for some reason – this is a great site, but not always the best for neutral reporting.

What makes you say this is spun negatively?
The article sounds very neutral to me. Too much for your taste maybe?

The headline leads with “Is Germany slamming the door on Chademo” instead of “Germany announces 400 freakin’ DC stations!” This is good news for the industry as a whole, not something for a few overly picky early adopters and enthusiasts to complain about.

@Brian, @mustang_sallad, you guys are too sensitive. The title says “Is Germany SLAMming the door on CHAdeMO with SLAM project? 400 DC chargers by 2017” (sorry, you don’t get to drop the question mark and the second half just because it suits your argument better), and the article continues by pointing out that this announced project is the largest so far (positive), and other IMHO neutral facts. @Brian, I certainly don’t see CHAdeMO being the focus of this piece at all. While I agree that its mention in the title was unnecessary, I think that it’d have been misleading for the author to omit from the article the fact those stations are unlikely to include this standard. @mustang_sallad, while I’m always up for more charging stations, I don’t share your opinion that news such as this is necessarily so good for EVs. First, it’s only an announcement, and one which reaches years into the future. While a great first step, unless and until it gets implemented, it can be seen as a stalling tactic, anti-competitive and even anti-EV FUD, just like VW’s Neusser comments in Geneva last month. http://insideevs.com/volkswagen-development-chief-expect-50-electric-range-2016-300-2020/ Next, unless this group or others commit to similar deployments in… Read more »

@io,

Like mustang_sallad said, the title of the article is “Germany SLAMming The Door on CHAdeMO…”. The real news here is that Germany is installing a significant amount of fast chargers, yet the focus of the article is on the fact that it’s not CHAdeMO. That seems like negative spin to me, yes.

@mustang_sallad,

I’ve also noticed the biases of some of the writers here. Some are also EV purists to a fault, poo-pooing “good” efforts like the Volt in favor of “better” efforts like any pure EV (an aside, I think the Volt is a wonderful blend of engineering and design, taking full advantage of today’s technology and needs). It’s just a shame to me that a site like this wouldn’t celebrate every advancement made by the growing plug-in industry.

But it would be very interesting to know the extra cost if they would be equipped with both ccs and chademo…
– my assumption is that it would not be much, but I do not know.

The number officials use is 5% of the charger cost.

That is it will only cost 5% more (i.e. for sure under 500 US dollars) to add an extra Chdemo to a CCS DC 50 KW.

Overall, we are talking about some ridiculously low numbers. Rwe gives a price of about 6000EUR for a DC 50 KW charger plus hundreds for installation.

For an reasonable government these are peanuts. It is really inertia and lack of vision, can’t blame on money.

Toshiyuki Shiga, the President of CHAdeMO Association, says that “Europe sends loud and clear a message to reassure EV drivers that they have made the right choice and that multistandard chargers are the answer to allow all EV drivers to charge at all stations.”

THE ASSOCIATION WELCOMES EU DECISION TO ENDORSE CHADEMO IN MULTISTANDARD CHARGERS (dated: 2014.04.15)
http://www.chademo.com/wp/wp-content/uploads/2014/04/2014-04-15_CHAdeMO_statement_for_EP_plenary_vote_on_CPT.pdf

Well apparently the SLAM project didn’t get the memo.

Despite the spin from CHAdeMO, the EU never endorsed CHAdeMO nor multi-standard chargers. The EU simply tolerates them (the previous proposal would have effectively recommended not even allowing CHAdeMO at all).

What the legislature passed was that CCS is the bare minimum, but DC charging stations can install other additional options if they wanted to. Thus this SLAM project meets those requirements.

@JayY Tolerates is a major improvement over early language that would have seen the removal of the current 1100 CHAdeMO stations.

The initial proposed language would have delayed infrastructure deployments by a number of years and greatly constrain the range of EVs already in use (effectively ruling the EVs obsolete). Limiting ZEVs is omething hard to justify as Paris, London and other major EU cities are experiencing the worst levels of smog ever recorded.

I’m not disputing that tolerating is much better than an effective ban, but tolerating is still quite far from an endorsement. Instead of a hard transition period, it’ll effectively be a soft transition period.

Since CCS is required in all DC charging installations going forward, it’s not hard to see it’ll eventually be the one that takes over, esp. given even this early in the game there’s already charging networks (this one is an example) that have decided to abandon CHAdeMO voluntarily (even the original proposal said 2019).

As for the concerns over the market impact, now’s actually the best time to transition to a new standard. Right now the market for EVs in the EU is still relatively small. If we wait until it gets huge to transition, it’ll be an even greater hassle to existing EV owners.

I expect the big 3 USA car-makers, the German car-makers, and the USA government to do the same sort of thing in the USA with SAE-CCS eventually. But the USA car makers need to get their real EVs out first. All we have for pure EVs is the kludgey Ford Focus EV conversion, the Fiat 500e compliance car, and the Spark EV compliance car. And only the Spark EV has the SAE-CCS plug.

Some of the 200 DCFC that NRG eVgo has committed to install in California (via state settlement), are said to be dual CCS / CHAdeMO stations. These DCFC will be deployed in the Los Angles and San Francisco Bay Area regions.

Only a few of these eVgo DCFC stations will be along regional travel corridors. (ie: extended travel to only within each urban area, unlike the electric highways of Oregon, Tennessee and Washington that connect regional centers)

We won’t see much deployment of CCS compatible until auto manufactures supporting this standard sell BEVs beyond ZEV (Section 177) states.

I never quite understood why the EU is going for 50kW when they already have a 22kW three-phase plug available. It seems like too small of a jump.

and tesla even manages to pump 135 kW threw a menkens type 2 compatible plugg

Most likely to save money. Most of these likely use the same core as the older CHAdeMO chargers and the capacity of the current EVs coming out are still not enough to call for 100kW.

The quality and availability of 3-phase power varies between EU countries. Some have the capability of providing 3-phase 22 kW, or 43 kW charging, but it is not universal. Currently only the Renault Zoé can charge on 22 kW 3-phase.

In the last few months, there has been a shift to DC charging above 22 kW (as omits need for extra charging equipment on each vehicle). Now we just need agreement, or a series of plugs and adaptors for the various charging protocols.

Smart ED can charge with 22 kW AC too (optional).

That’s definitely a point worth highlighting – 22 or 44kW AC fast charging comes at a cost. An onboard charger of that power level is bound to be more expensive and heavy than a 6kW unit, unless of course it’s integrated into the motor inverter as has been shown in a few rare cases.

So by fall, this group will release “more details”, maybe even install a token quick-charger and throw some big event like “it’s real this time”, complete with photo op and press releases…

[yawn]

Somehow I doubt at least BMW’s commitment to a project like this. http://wardsauto.com/vehicles-amp-technology/bmw-exec-sees-little-need-public-charging

Wake me up when any manufacturer other than Nissan and Tesla *really* start putting QCs on the ground, in Europe and/or the US.

BMW is probably correct that there’s little need, but the cost is similarly small.

That’s how a car company that only produces 30k units per year is able to finance its Supercharger network covering most of Europe and North America. Nobody’s going to do that for hydrogen.

That’s why Germany is going forward with this. It’ll cost maybe $10M, which is a pittance compared to the investment BMW made in the i3 factories.

Tesla’s system really is genius but it relies upon having huge batteries in their cars. With a huge battery in their cars, the Model S drivers will charge up at home, work, or a conventional public charger some 98% of the time. So they only need a few superchargers placed between big cities (thus cheap rural land) and the superchargers are themselves attractions so that restaurants/malls/etc. will want to host them. It is very clever but requires huge (expensive) batteries.

If you wanted to promote EV’s and wanted most of them to be produced locally, you’d provide infrastructure for your version hoping the other version would die in the process.

It seems like a strategic move by the governments involved to support the home team(s).

Sure . . . but the same can be said of the Chademo crowd.

This article made me think of a song from 1993. As the car companies go… “Let the boys be boys”

(nsfw)
http://youtu.be/7ADgCeYJMN4

actually it is SFW (no expletives)

Great…….another “Standard”.

No, the same standard that German car makers got approved with international standards.

DC fast charging system standards IEC 61851-23 gives the requirements for “DC chargers” and provides the general requirements for the control communication between a DC fast charger and an EV. IEC 62851-24 defines digital communication between a DC fast charger and an EV.

There are 3 different systems that were approved to be international DC charging standards:

CHAdeMO proposed by Japan (System A)

GB/T by China (B)

COMBO1 by the US and COMBO2 by Germany (C).

The standards can be consulted via IEC website:

http://www.iec.ch/dyn/www/f?p=103:22:0::::FSP_ORG_ID,FSP_LANG_ID:

And it takes that many people to hold up one of those huge plugs 🙂

There has never been any doubt that German car makers would be taken care of by the German government. While those same German car makers would howl that the CCS Combo2 (based on the German Menekkes plug) should be a multi-standard with the 1100 CHAdeMO chargers in Europe, they obviously have no intention to reciprocate.

The German CCS Combo2 charger installs will never have anything except German plugs.

They’ve tried desparately to get any competition outlawed throughout the EU, but that hasn’t worked out so well.

“There has never been any doubt that German car makers would be taken care of by the German government.”

Yeah, that is the way the world works. And the Japanese government helped roll out a lot of TEPCO-designed Chademo chargers in Japan.

Hopefully the US government will help install DC fast-chargers in the USA. And since the big 3 backed SAE-CCS, any such US government supported DC fast-chargers will include SAE-CCS. But perhaps they can support Chademo too. We don’t tend to be as protectionist in the USA.

Which “big 3”? GM (no EV plan beyond compliance), Ford (low-volume Focus Electric, no quick-charging now or foreseen), and… Chrysler (now under Fiat, whose CEO is openly anti-EV), or is it now Tesla (which supports CHAdeMO)?

The only two companies manufacturing EVs in volume and in the US are Nissan and Tesla, neither of which supports CCS.

The DOE already invested a little in charging stations, through a grant to ECOtality, which installed both L2 and CHAdeMO QCs. Given how well the company performed, unfortunately I’m not sure we’ll see much more government involvement there.

Also, the state of California settled its lawsuit against NRG (owner of eVgo) in exchange for 200 multi-standard QCs, among other things. All but one of the stations currently installed are CHAdeMO + L2.

Yes, and once there are CCS-compatible chargers which are certified to national standards (unclear if they mean UL only, or if ETL etc. would also be okay) from two different companies, eVgo has six months to upgrade all of their California CHAdeMO-only chargers to dual standard, or else add a stand-alone CCS charger at the same location.

IIRR all new locations from the trigger point forward are required to have dual-mode chargers from the start. At the moment, AFAIK only ABB has a UL listed CCS charger, and someone else (Efacec?) has one certified by ETL, so I’m not sure if the trigger has been reached yet.

At the moment there are at least four CCS public chargers in California, most of which are not eVgo.

As I stated, the settlement calls for 200 multi-standard stations eventually. NRG/eVgo is free to comply however it wants, and install whatever it sees fit beyond that.

My main point, replying to @Spec9, was that neither the US nor the California government seem poised to impose a standard (and btw, I don’t think they should).

Uh, no, they’re not “free to comply however they want”, at a minimum they have to comply with the terms of the settlement. They can, however, choose to exceed the terms, but that seems unlikely given the lack of profitability to date for public charging (exc. Tesla).

“The only thing that matters are the EVs that are currently in production”

Being first is not everything. I loved my Diamond Rio mp3 player . . . but you’ve probably never heard of it before. But you do know about ipods.

Oh spare me the hysterics. The big 3 automakers have all officially signed onto SAE-CCS. Yes, we all know that only GM currently has a vehicle with SAE-CCS on the road but that will change over time.

Let us not be naive now . . . if the Federal government decides to do anything to help install chargers, do you really think they will not install chargers that all of the big 3 automakers have backed? C’mon.

You can whine about them backing their vested interest but I presume you have a Chademo vehicle so you are just doing the same.

This is Euro-Standards politics at its worst (or best, depending on your point of view).

There is no way the techno-elites that attend European standards organizations as a career would accept a not-invented-here solution. Now that they have made their choice, the rest of the local industry (represented by the happy smiling people in the photograph) will fall in line.

CHAdeMO will be tolerated as a transition solution simply because the techno-elites were late in developing their own solution. They freely admit that and openly support using it as a temporary transition solution.

But regardless of the current popularity and vast penetration of CHAdeMO, it’s eventual demise in Europe is inevitable because Europeans generally trust their elites to make decisions.

Only a mass popular uprising against frankenplugs could change that outcome, which at this point in time appears unlikely (unless you can get French farmers driving CHAdeMO equipped tractors on side!).

“There is no way” blablabla, yet it already happened: the directive the EU Parliament approved explicitly allows CHAdeMO as quick-charging standard alongside CCS.

Its latest amendment to the directive on alternative fuels infrastructure removed mentions of ‘transition period’, and effectively supports multi-standard QCs: “Electric vehicles already in circulation … should be able to recharge”.

See Brian Henderson’s link above or directly http://www.europarl.europa.eu/