General Motors’ Dan Ammann Gets Itchy Twitter Fingers Over Electric Cars

SEP 17 2015 BY CHELSEA SEXTON 87

Dan Ammann

Dan Ammann

General Motors President Dan Ammann commandeered the company’s Twitter account today as he toured the IAA Motor Show in Frankfurt. Among a handful of benign comments, he dropped this little gem:

“On a tour of #IAA2015. More automakers unveiling EVs for the elite. We’re focused on EVs for everyone, like the upcoming @Chevrolet Bolt.”

2018 Chevrolet Bolt

2017/2018 Chevrolet Bolt

The remark was a dig at Audi, who yesterday gave a first look at the mighty compelling e-tron quattro SUV coming to market in 2018, and Porsche, who unveiled a beautiful but optimistically-specced concept electric vehicle, the Mission E. Collectively, they have comprised most of the media attention from the show so far, certainly in the electric vehicle segment.

Audi Gets Serious About All-Electric Vehicles In Germany!

Audi Gets Serious About All-Electric Vehicles In Germany!

*Editor’s note: This post also appears on Chelsea’s blog.  Check it out by clicking here.

But GM’s foray into these snark-infested waters started with January’s unveiling of the Chevrolet Bolt, with previous comments aimed primarily at Tesla- ironically when Tesla itself is finally throwing fewer stones and instead imploring more companies to join the EV party.

I like a little competitive feistiness among manufacturers. And I’m especially rooting for more high-volume, affordable, nationwide EV programs. So I was thrilled to see GM steal the show in Detroit, so to speak, with the Bolt and second-generation Volt.

2016 Chevrolet Volt With Hatchback Open (Photo: Tom Moloughney/InsideEVs)

2016 Chevrolet Volt  (Photo: Tom Moloughney/InsideEVs)

But the particular streak of arrogance revealed by such remarks against other companies making plug-in cars aimed at their own markets is not only a dicey strategy, but tone-deaf.

Not only because GM’s own premium brand, Cadillac, produces a plug-in vehicle that is certainly not “for everyone”. Nor because Dan Ammann himself just purchased one of the highest-priced houses in Detroit’s history. Or that GM has had its own challenges with its plug-in programs, and has hardly earned the right—yet—to claim the moral high ground on fully electric vehicles.

“EVs for everyone” requires diversity. Choices. Vehicle variations in all the ways we’re used to seeing them. No single car—gas or electric— is “for everyone”. And especially at this still nascent stage, more automakers invested in EVs “for real” means a higher likelihood that they become here to stay this time. Crucially, this is not yet a foregone conclusion, and no single company can change that alone.

At the same time, GM raises its own stakes with every remark. The loftier GM’s claims and the deeper its digs, the more the company will have to live up to via the Bolt. It will have no choice but to market it brilliantly and consistently, to engage with the community and stakeholders to leverage all of the support it can possibly earn. Because GM, of all companies, must make a success of its first major foray back into EVs. Any failure of the Bolt will be seen as self-inflicted, a deja vu moment.

So Dan, you keep on talking all you want. I’m all ears.

Editor’s Note: Our thanks to Chelsea Sexton for sharing this story with our readers.  We encourage readers to also check out Chelsea’s blog here.

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87 Comments on "General Motors’ Dan Ammann Gets Itchy Twitter Fingers Over Electric Cars"

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He is correct. I understand the philosophy of those who are thinking of trickle-down innovation, GM is delivering with Volt 1.0 & 2.0 and hopefully with Bolt.

i agree with what he is saying; GM has the most practical approach to electric vehicles. GM isn’t planning on an EV “revolution”, they’re thinking in terms of an EV “evolution”. so the GM approach is primarily focused on EREV/PHEV, cars that you can drive every day and own as your only car; cars that fit with the expectations that drivers currently have for their automobiles.

the GM approach is well thought out, instead of building PHEVs with a battery just for the purpose of meeting a regulatory mandate, GM builds PHEVs with the purpose of allowing drivers to do most of their daily driving powered by electricity.

No Comment said: “…GM builds PHEVs with the purpose of allowing drivers to do most of their daily driving powered by electricity.”
———

I agree with that…but GM prefers the Volt & Bolt remain limited production halo cars. GM does not intend to promote EV cars to the mass market…perhaps that may change in 5-10 years.

If the Volt is a “limited production halo car” then the only “real consumer EV” in the world is the Leaf.

CDAVIS said:

“…GM prefers the Volt & Bolt remain limited production halo cars. GM does not intend to promote EV cars to the mass market…”

At least regarding the Volt, that is unfair. GM produced more Volts than it could sell for at least two years in a row, and at one time ran TV ads for the Volt in heavy rotation. If the Volt isn’t selling better, it’s certainly not because GM doesn’t want to sell many.

We’ll have to wait and see whether GM is serious about producing the Bolt, but plans for 30,000 produced in the first year of production certainly put it well beyond the “compliance car” category. In fact, that’s half the worldwide Leaf annual production. We can hope for more, but perhaps it’s prudent of GM to take a “wait and see” attitude about how many Bolts to produce, after over-estimating the market for the Volt.

So how come GM is producing a compact sedatch (sedan/hatch) called the Volt and sub-compact hatch called the Bolt if they are trying to make a car that can be your “only” car? If they were really sincere, they would have upsized the Volt into a mid-size (like Toyota did with the Prius) and introduced a compact or standard sized (mid-sized?) CUV variant with voltec technology. They would have also introduced the Bolt as a similar sized “sedatch” and/or CUV.

It’s good that GM is trying to develop PHEVs and EVs, but the cars need to be practical too. The Volt is borderline practical — it works great for some single people but is really more of a commuter car for 2+ car families — but I don’t see the Bolt as being particularly practical. Maybe I’ll be proven wrong when it comes out? But I doubt it. One thing is certain, we’ll only have to wait a couple of years to find out.

The subcompact Spark is not everyone’s car either.
A Malibu

Sorry Malibu…, best sellers like the Equinox, the Silverado or the Cruze would really be everyone’s car. Not the small Bolt produced in so small number..

It’s even easier to convert existing cars, or pick-ups with a lot of space to put batteries.

RexxSee said:

“It’s even easier to convert existing cars, or pick-ups with a lot of space to put batteries.”

You can’t make a well-designed or compelling EV by removing the gas engine and all its accessories from a gasmobile, then shoe-horning an electric powertrain into it.

Compelling EVs are designed from the ground up. Hopefully the Bolt will be a compelling compact EV.

The problem is that the bottom-up strategy of building the “People’s EV” has been tried before. Not by big automakers mind you, but every company that went the “we make EVs as cheap as we can!” route has failed *miserably* with cars better described as glorified golf carts. In fact, most of them were exactly that, lacking such features as “doors”, nevermind airbags.

Until very recently, the simple fact of the matter is that either the batteries weren’t energy-dense enough (as with lead-acid or NiMH chemistries), or cheap enough to make cheap EVs worth buying.

So this isn’t some kind of wacky “trickle-down economics” strategy, it’s turning every previous strategy for building EVs on its ear in an effort to get a real, compelling product that people want to buy, to market.

BINGO

Much ado about nothing, IMO.

BREAKING NEWS: Company executive talks up their own product, talks down competitor’s product.

Doesn’t that shock you? 😉

I mean this article was spurred by a single, <140 character tweet. Is the Bolt EV truly "for everyone?". No, but it will sure be within the price range of a ton more people than a Tesla (until the Model 3 comes out….who knows when that will be), a Porsche Mission E or any of the European compliance PHEVs.

I find it humorous that a comment comparing a Chevy vehicle to luxury brand vehicles can be considered "arrogant". Does no one see the irony in that?

The Bolt EV is no more certain than the Tesla Model 3.

There are 50+ Bolt EV mules rolling around testing currently. The Model was still in the clay model stage as of Tesla’s last quarterly filing.

If Tesla fails, the “next generation” BEVs won’t get 200 miles range.

YOu make it sound like LEAF 2.0 won’t happen without Tesla.

That is a pretty bold statement considering that Nissan is #1 EV maker today.

I agree. PEVs have hit a stage where the big players will have competitive models for sale when battery prices fall to profitable levels (sometime around 2017-2020). At that point there will be many 200+ mile models available.

ModernMarvelFan said:

“YOu make it sound like LEAF 2.0 won’t happen without Tesla.

“That is a pretty bold statement considering that Nissan is #1 EV maker today.”

I agree. I think at this point, with GM and Nissan clearly committed to producing the Bolt and the Leaf 2.0, the EV revolution would continue even if Tesla vanished tomorrow. Without Tesla pushing the envelope the revolution would slow, but it’s now — finally — unstoppable.

Totally agree with him. Way things are going now BEV’s are building themselves a rich man’s toy image. In between “too slow” (before Tesla) and “too expensive” (after Tesla) it seems GM has the correct approach although maybe still a little too much on the boring side (Bolt). Hard to satisfy everyone…

Between ‘Too Slow’ and ‘Too Expensive’ comes GM Volt with ‘Too Small’! A Great Drive Train, and limiting it to one vehicle class seems to be their problem, but – they are putting part of it into the New Malibu, so – when that makes it up to a decent Plug-in with a good AER, maybe then it will have more people room. The Back seat of the Current VOLT – is like a French Guillotine for me – the hatch line is about equal to my shoulder height – with the hatch open, but closed – it makes me feel like a poor sardine – worse that the old Geo Metro’s! The 2nd Gen Volt – is wider, longer, but lower, so I don’t think it will have more back seat headroom, and it’s 5th seat attempt is kind of cheesy! However – I hear the VOLT has more back seat headroom than the Excessively priced ELR had! Marketing the Bolt as the car for everyone – ignores my co-workers need for a towing capacity of 9,000+ Lbs for his Trailer, and my other Co-Workers enjoyment of his Corvette! So – No single vehicle is the ‘Car for Everyone’… Read more »

You have to ask… why doesn’t GM make a compelling BEV for the elite if it can? Does it really not care about the success of Cadillac?

The ELR was their effort there for plugins (and if you saw the commercial it was very much aimed at the “elite”). Unfortunately it failed.

As others put it, even with their PHEV architecture alone GM has the ability to sell far more plug-ins than they currently do (the SUV market is the big one) and it has been puzzling why they seem to be holding back.

Tech01x said:

“You have to ask… why doesn’t GM make a compelling BEV for the elite if it can?”

For the exact same reason Kodak didn’t make a compelling digital camera. Because legacy auto makers don’t want a compelling BEV to cut into sales of their core products: gasmobiles.

That said, GM seems less guilty of that than most legacy auto makers. It really has done well with the Volt, and really did promote it heavily at one time. Sure, they haven’t followed that up by putting Voltec into other cars (except the Cadillac ELR, which was just a compliance car), so they certainly deserve some castigation for not continuing as they started. But at least they’re doing better than Kodak; they’re not just sticking their head in the sand and hoping the new tech will go away!

GO CHELSEA! I’ve liked Chelsea from day one. She hits the nail on the head here, and I concur – I love it when GM opens it’s mouth because they’re just turning more attention upon their own efforts. Rather than stirring the pot overseas, they need to look inwardly at the recent hold back of their 2nd gen Volt to only 11 states for all of 2016. An “Everyman EV” is not one that is sold in C.A.R.B./ZEV-only states. GM also publically stated the Volt is a halo product like Corvette ( only their green halo )- with limited markets. I believe the limited success is greatly due to the original Volt being overpriced from the onset ( $44,000 ) with ungainly tax credit that only high-earners can get + horrible, horrible marketing attempts they finally just abandonded altogether except in California. Bolt needs to be AT LEAST the 30,000/yr “Everyman EV” with 200mile range that GM promised with flashy NAIAS intro. If they keep blowing their EV-horn but dribble Bolt out to ZEV states ( SparkEV ) and multi-tier it after…They are just full of BS and will lose their competitive advantage soon enough to Ford, Toyota, Hyundai and… Read more »

GM needs to put their money where their smart mouth is.

Exactly.
They need to fight the Prius on price, but they still don’t have a Prius competitive product.

Nor, a Tesla competitor, where is the Caddy EV?

Voltec parts have made it into the Malibu Hybrid, a much larger car than Prius with a combined rating of 47MPG. This is huge, if they can build and promote them properly. This beats HSD in Camry and Fusion hybrids handily. GM showed off it’s Cadillac CT-6 PHEV also. This isn’t an everyday-man’s ride, but it’s very encouraging that GM has made another plug-in with Voltec parts, including LG batteries.

What’s sad is the SNAIL’S PACE at which they’re doing this.

As I said, economies of scale will mean a more affordable Volt and Bolt. This requires placing those components into more cars – just like they have in the hopefully soon-to-be-released Malibu Hybrid. Next – a Cruze Hybrid with Voltec would be a HUGE CHALLENGE to Prius dominance. Especially since Toyota’s gas-sipper recently bowed as a 4th generation redo and it’s uglier than sin!

This means every pricepoint could be covered. Hybrids for the timid who fear the plug, and have smaller bank accounts, and CT-6 Plug-Ins for the doctor and lawyer crowd. Forget the ELR and focus on the next step in that strata: A full-on, skateboard-packed Tesla Fighter.

Why the Toyota Estima and Alphard hybrids were not delivered to the home of minivans is an unforgivable mistake in my estimation. They have been available to the Japanese market since 2002.

http://www.hybridcars.com/toyotas-estima-and-alphard-hybrid-minivans-off-limits-for-us/

The Estima and Alphard never made it to N. America because of Toyota’s perceived product conflict with it’s N. America-only Sienna.

So why not a hybrid Sienna? Was it a problem with packaging the battery pack to allow the vanishing rear seat? Nope. The Highlander Hybrid has a vanishing seat AND a battery pack.

“…the original Volt… + horrible, horrible marketing attempts they finally just abandonded altogether except in California.”

Well, the “230 MPG” Volt ads were certainly a fiasco, and an unforced error on GM’s part. But I remember the national TV ads GM ran for the Volt, showing every appliance from a coffee maker to a Xerox copier run by a gas motor. Clever and memorable! That showed GM was committed to promoting the car, as TV ads are expensive, and that ad was run in heavy rotation for at least several weeks, perhaps a few months.

Perhaps GM is treating the Volt 2.0 as a “halo” car, but that didn’t seem to be the case for the Volt 1.0.

Are you sure you aren’t thinking of this one?

Oops… Yeah, that “Volt commercial” which advertised the Leaf. 😉

My bad!

I have issues with considering the Bolt an “everyman EV”. It is still relatively expensive – $30,000 base model after tax credits, which you have to be wealthy enough to qualify for in the first place. $30,000 is the average sales price of a new vehicle, but that still means that roughly half of all new vehicles cell for less than that (yes, I know the differences between average and median, but I cant seem to find the median vehicle sales price, only the estimated average sales price).

Don’t forget: The limited production run GM Bolt will quite likely also have “Stealership Markups”, you can argue / negotiate over, with helpful 3rd Party GM Sales Personnel. 😀

Those markups could easily cancel out most of any federal or state sales tax credits…

Eh… people said the same thing about the Volt when it was going to be launched, and that didn’t last long.

I live in NV and we were in the last launch wave in late 2011. By March 2012, I emailed the Chevy dealer, told him which Volt I wanted in his inventory (it was in transit), it arrived on the 28th and I told him I’d be down on the 30th, which made him quite happy he could close one more deal this month. I got about $3500 off the 45K sticker price for my maxed out Volt and 0% for 60 months. So I figure I got a pretty good deal only about 4-5 months after they were on the market. If you’re the guy waiting outside the dealership the day they arrive then they know they don’t have to budge on the price, but otherwise in this sub $2/gal market, EVs wont have price gouging issues.

According to latest survey. Median US income is about $56K which is just barely enough to qualify for $7500 tax credit (which is different from deductions).

$37.5K Bolt after incentives is $30.5K MSRP which implies sub $30K transaction price since people rarely pay MSRP these days with all the internet tools such as truecar.com.

Anthony said: “I have issues with considering the Bolt an ‘everyman EV’. It is still relatively expensive – $30,000 base model after tax credits, which you have to be wealthy enough to qualify for in the first place. $30,000 is the average sales price of a new vehicle, but that still means that roughly half of all new vehicles cell for less than that (yes, I know the differences between average and median, but I cant seem to find the median vehicle sales price, only the estimated average sales price).” I won’t claim it as either the median price nor the mode price, but I find it notable that — last time I looked — the top 10 best-selling cars and light trucks in the USA were all priced between $18k and $23k. Seems pretty clear evidence to me. So no, neither the approx. $30k Bolt nor the approx. $35k Model ≡ will qualify as an “everyman EV”. The “everyman” car needs to be even less expensive. But that will come only with further price reductions in EV battery packs. Tesla obviously is doing all it can to bring prices down, committing to spending upwards of $5 billion on the… Read more »

I can understand why GM needs to get the lie out, and repeat it over and over until even the less weak-minded believe it.

They know Model 3 will absolutely wreak GM. So they need to counter it now.

And GM has some mighty impressive BILLS TO PAY from past F’ups:

http://money.cnn.com/2015/09/17/news/companies/gm-recall-ignition-switch

So, I completely get where the itchiness comes from. Welcome to the new era of the EV Wars.

Really, that doesn’t make any sense. They know the Model 3 will wreck GM, so GM’s just hanging on for the next few years by lying about the Bolt?

The simplest explanation is that they’re actually working on creating, you know, a competitive product.

If you’re an elite automaker, of course, you will make elite EVs. Nothing wrong with that.

Congrats to Chelsea Sexton for coining both “snark-infested waters” and “itchy twitter finger” in one article! A pleasant read for sure! The actual worthiness of the news is pate, other than to record it for later evidence of hubris.

sven said:

“Umm. . . those phrases him been in use for many years.”

Okay, then. To paraphrase Vexar: Congrats to Chelsea Sexton for finding entirely appropriate uses for both “snark-infested waters” and “itchy twitter finger” in one article!

I personally haven’t encountered either phrase before, and I find “snark-invested waters” to be particularly evocative.

Thanks Chelsea!

This whole post lost a lot of credibility with the EV1 comment. Move on! I’m just excited to see any automaker showing signs of aggression in this segment!

Those who ignore history, are doomed to repeat it…

Yes, lets hope the Model 3 prototypes don’t have misaligned doors. 😀

Chelsea Sexton for Insideevs <3

Seems to me that Chelsea Sexton is still grinding the EV-1 axe.

Elon Musk lobs bombs at other automakers as a regular habit, but somehow I doubt she has criticized him for doing so.

Because Elon Musk is doing all he can given Tesla’s resources to make and sell as many BEVs as possible.

Whereas the CEOs of every other automaker are not leveraging their company’s resources to make and sell as many BEVs as possible.

Do you not understand the freaking difference?

Manufacturing and selling one compact sedan while your company offers a portfolio of dozens of ICEv does not measure up.

I’ve read that Ford could literally stop selling every vehicle they manufacture, except their F series line, and their global profits would only decline 10%. You can see where the $$$$ really is made. It’s crazy to think Ford to just stop selling cars tomorrow, and it would barely make a blip in their bottom line.

Now think about what fraction of that leftover 10% comes from their alt fuel lineup? You can see why manufacturers like Ford are dragging their feet when it comes to pumping out EVs. GM should be commended for their efforts, not condemned.

Hey Bro1999, have you asked any GM Representatives, Executives, or Management – as to why they have not yet begun to develop the CCS ‘Electric Highway’ for their current Spark EV and Coming Bolt EV? Something that could at least – in theory – be competitive with the Tesla Supercharger Development plan? I have – and the answer I got: “They are not in the Infrastructure Business, they just make vehicles” – and that – my friend, is why Tesla is even more compelling than just the 0-60 Times, and long range! They ‘Get it’ – having a car that you can drive long distances – is better – if you can do it easier (Superchargers vs. Current Public Charging – including CHAdeMO & CCS), refill faster, and hit the washrooms and grab a bite to eat while you do it! Putting in Charging Stations at Dealers, while nice – really is not a Charging Solution for when BEV Drivers are out on the road! While it is a ‘start’ – it is not the Goal that should be – and Dealers could – if Smart – work with Malls, Theaters, and other businesses where people usually spend 1-2 hours… Read more »

GM doesn’t have a SC network because they aren’t selling $90,000 cars, and adding $2000 to the cost of one of their EVs is a major deal.

Furthermore, Tesla created the SC network as part of their sales platform, which is why their cars use a proprietary charging standard that is incompatible with all other automakers’ EVs. Can you imagine the furious firestorm that would erupt among EV advocates if GM rolled out a national charging network that was only compatible with GM EVs… while, simultaneously, GM abandoned the existing charging standards (J1772 and CCS) on all of their cars?

People like Chelsea Sexton would be screaming from the mountaintops that GM is trying to sabotage the entire EV market.

Actually, you may want to fact check on something…Nissan.

Directly in some countries, especially in Japan, and indirectly in others (partnership with local utilities and municipal governments, for example), Nissan has supplied significant number of Chademo charging stations (of its own brand) and created a Chademo charging network, all without adding additional cost to the LEAF and e-NV200 buyers.

Sure, the business model and price points of those Nissan stations are quite different than that of Tesla, but I do believe that LEAF and e-NV200, at their price ranges, are every person’s EV.

That was very “Starky.”

I agree with Dan and don’t see any hubris in his statement. GM made a bold “everyman” statement early-on when they branded the Volt with a Chevy badge, not Buick or Cadi. And that remains their main focus, both with the EREV and the BEV market. Chevy Volts, Spark EV’s, and soon Bolts. Producing EVeryman cars first and foremost, then upgrading the EVeryman technologies for their niche luxury markets.

I interpret GM’s “Everyman” not in the absolute sense, but as Everyman relative to folks who would really like a Model S or Model X, but just can’t bring themselves to write a check that big, which is a lot of people.

I think the Bolt is going to do very well with folks who would love to be in a Model S (who wouldn’t?), but will end up actually purchasing a decent car with a “good enough” 200 mile range. It’s the same idea as folks who really liked the Mac, but bought a PC because it was cheaper.

When Nissan comes out with a 300 mile Leaf, as has been announced, they’ll likewise pick up many, many Model S admirers.

Leptoquark – per “When Nissan comes out with a 300 mile Leaf, as has been announced” – could you share that link of that announcement, please?

I have only heard rumors of a 2017 Model Year 200 mile Range LEAF, so maybe they announced a 300 Km Range LEAF? (and somebody got miles/Kms mixed up?)

200 miles =~ 320 Kms, by the way!

Nissan hasn’t announced it per-se, but they have alluded to it as their end goal. There was a video a few months ago which stated that within 2-3 generations (where a “generation” for a car is 5-6 years, so 10-20 years), they will have EVs with range “comparable” to today’s gas cars. That falls squarely in the 300+ mile range. They even showed a video of someone driving a Leaf on which the GOM reported over 300 miles.

Here’s what I saw:

http://www.autoexpress.co.uk/nissan/leaf/92857/exclusive-all-new-nissan-leaf-to-get-300-mile-range

Granted, it’s not an imminent announcement, but apparently it’s being talked about at Nissan.

Well, $ per mile in GM Spark is best in sub-Tesla segment, and they approach Tesla too!

So we can actually give some credit to Chevrolet/GM for bringing EVs to market.

Quantity of production so far is biggest shame for GM.

Great to see you published on here Chelsea!

Could we make that a regular thing?

The problem is, no fair play. GM, after all those years, is still not giving equal chance to EV models and ICE models since you get an avalanche of ICE models in all sizes and shapes but hardly one single EV with a boring shape and seating only four. No choice but scrap EVs, that’s the problem. No real enthusiasm for selling EV models, that’s the problem.

I’m no fan of GM, but even I’m getting tired of all the GM bashing over the Volt (and now the Bolt) not having 5 seats. If you want an affordable EV, that means it has to be a compact car. You don’t make a compact car to seat 5 adults.

If you want a five-seater, then buy a “full-sized” or luxury car… and pay the additional price.

All too many commenters here ask for the impossible; an affordable plug-in EV that can seat five people. Honestly, how often do you need to carry more than four people in your car? If it’s a common occurrence for you, then buy a CUV, SUV or minivan. And quit asking for an “affordable” PEV if what you need is a larger and more expensive car.

“You don’t make a compact car to seat 5 adults.”

Family car != 5 adults.

More likely,

Family car = 2 adults and 2*-3 kids. Hence 5 seats.

With 2 kids (young kids, of course), daddy, or more likely, mommy sit in the middle.

OTOH, many young adults today do carpool with their buddies, and in many occasions, there are 5 adults sitting in a compact or mid size car (you may want to hang around Facebook, Twitter, Apple, etc. to see that).

I think GM Will get some ‘Enthusiasm’ for selling EV’s come around 2018 – when – they see Bolt Sales going to people reserving a Tesla Model 3, or picking up the New LEAF, and realize – they still have to buy credits for CARB from Tesla and NISSAN!

Then again – Maybe not!

Trying again: I Guess Inside EV’s did not like my HTML (XML?) ” and ” in the above last line: ” “Then again – Maybe not!” ”

Sorry Inside EVS – I guess I should do it this way, since the Diagonal Left Bracket and Right Bracket go invisible: “HTML (XML?)” … [ snark ] and [/snark]. (Open Bracket – ‘snark’ … close bracket ‘snark’ )

Yes, the site is eating your coding for supper…doesn’t even show what you were trying to do from our end behind the scenes, lol.

I put “and” in italics for you though, (=

Yeah, I’ve had that problem too: Putting in faux HTML “snark” tags, using the HTML standard of greater-than and less-than symbols for brackets for the tags. The InsideEVs comment software “eats” everything inside that type of bracket, as it interprets it as attempted real HTML.

So yeah, use this type of bracket: [] for faux tags.

I’m very interested in the Chevy Bolt and hope it is a big success. But, I’m not sure it can be a big success unless GM does something about a DC-fast-charging infrastructure. The Tesla Model S can use the Supercharger Network.

The Chevy Bolt can use . . . what? . . . the small number of SAE-CCS chargers scattered around haphazardly? That is a huge problem GM needs to address if they want the Bolt to succeed.

“For the Bolt to succeed”.

The Bolt nor the Volt are built to “succeed”.

Success in the auto biz are big sales. GM’s LG battery pipeline and manufacturing plans are to keep Bolt production low – i.e. horrible margins kept in check – just enough to comply with federal and state regulations and collect ZEV credits.

Many EV fans still don’t see the forest for all the trees. It’s a compliance game right now – until Tesla blows up – or truly succeeds in mass-producing cars in any numbers as to be a blip on legacy carmaker’s radar.

Well, why does anyone make a big deal out of marking slogans?

Geez…

EV community really needs to get over them. If GM makes a claim, so what? Let them commit to “affordable” BEVs then. Making a big deal out of it only seems that EV community are way too freaking sensitive than they should be.

I’m sure the Bolt will sell the anemic quantities they will have available.

When Model 3 comes out it’s another story.
A bolt with blah charging or a Model 3 with SC?

I just hope the Bolt keeps it’s body size. Still curious on what the mythical Model 3 will look like though.

Based on past Tesla performance, the Bolt will have been available for 2+ years before anyone is choosing between a Bolt and a Model III.

Agree 100% Dan.

GM is will be able to lower the price, increase range, add features, correct styling, and perform other tweaks to the design and marketing by the time the first Model 3s hit the street. GM really has a huge tactical advantage.

It won’t really matter. I don’t see people cross shopping the Bolt and Tesla (much). Similarly equipped Tesla will be 1.5X the price of the Bolt. Bolt is really about taking sales away from the Leaf and proving the technology.

Tesla Model 3 v. Bolt will be like BMW i3 v. Leaf. Similar but different. Tesla will overpower the Model 3 to offer something “quick but cheaper than the MS”. But I doubt it will work out like we all think. Either they utilize some new manufacturing method to lower the price or they will offshore a large portion of the Model 3 and cut costs that way – say build a large portion of it in China, Mexico or Korea and then install the battery system in Fremont. Trains from Mexico to Fremont are possible to bring chassis in daily.

A little bit of trash talk among the OEMs about who’s bringing the best electric cars is alright. Tesla’s been throwing stones for a while.

There is no Best. There are variances with compromises. How many Tesla owners have experienced drive train failures (sometimes in-traffic). How many Volt owners have thrown a motor bearing and needed a fix? How many Leaf owners have battery range degradation? Lots of issues making non “the Best”. Some are “the quickest”. Others are more reliable. In the world of ICE, what is “the Best”? So many to choose from but are there really any “Best”?

I’m actually in the camp of if someone is claiming to be the best, they’re hiding something. There is no best – there is what satisfies with least compromise.

I’ve met far too many loyal supporters of the Prius that they would never change (despite sending most of their money overseas to Japan and turning away from local automakers). To them, it is “the best” but to others it seems myopic.

Elite? I paid $46,300 for my Chevy Volt in 2011. I paid $48,900 for my Cadillac ELR in 2015.

It was different times to be sure, but $2,600 isn’t that big a difference 4 years afterwards.

Everyone seems to like my ELR, but I probably should have bought another Volt. Unfortunately, I wouldn’t have gotten as good a deal if I had changed anything in the agreement. It was a ‘cut my losses’ transaction.

I too wish for things like more all electric range, and more diverse product offerings, but the relatively low price and high value of the GM offerings make me resigned to “I’ll take what I can get”, if and when GM offers new products.

With Volts now selling used for $15K, I think I am going to start to think about a demo Bolt in 2018 for under $28k or used in 2019. No reason to change-out my 2011 just to start up a new loan all over again. The expense of new-car economics when re-starting the new car cycle dwarfs the savings on gas and resources. I’m surprised at how many are already on their 2nd Volt or changed out to Teslas and other vehicles. Isn’t the point to keep resource usage down (that means keeping a car for a long time).

Chelsea Sexton said:

“No single car—gas or electric— is ‘for everyone’.”

Now there is a Truth which should be part of every discussion about cars, whether they’re EVs or gasmobiles or even something else.

Still trying to figure out why Chelsea is held up as anything special. She sure spent a lot of effort parsing a tweet from GM.

I can’t recall her doing the same for any other manufacturer (especially Tesla and Elon’s arrogant tweets).

Yeah, I get a kick out of Tesla’s “Supercharger costs are..” (legalistically) “..immaterial.”.

If that was so, Tesla would just build double the number of stalls, and would include a charger bay for every stall, instead of sharing the 120 or 135 kw (europe) with 2 stalls.

In a former response, I’ve stated the only way I see Tesla getting out of their “charge anywhere, anytime for as long as you want for $2000”, is by having each supercharger bay run 4 stalls, and have the car software throttle 2 or 3 of the other teslas that are not on vacation so that the one truly on vacation can get a reasonably fast charge rate.

“Everyone” doesn’t need another sedan.

How about a CUV? Equinox-sized Voltec is not that hard to do.