Fisker EMotion To Get 145 kWh Battery Pack

4 months ago by Domenick Yoney 38

Fisker EMotion

Fisker EMotion

Henrik Fisker has revealed battery specs for his Fisker EMotion electric super sedan

It seems like just yesterday, we were discussing all things Fisker EMotion, including its massive battery and path to production. Well, in light of a new interview, this time with The Detroit Bureau, we can confirm yet another important detail today: the battery in the all-electric sedan is said to be capable of holding 145 kilowatts hours (kWhs). For the mathematically challenged, that’s about 45 percent more energy than the large 100-kWh pack offered in the Tesla Models S or X.

Fisker EMotion battery pack will be highest energy density, in partnership with LG. Very exciting in-house developments on solid state too!

Besides its generous size, it’s also said to operate at 800 volts. That’s higher than just about any electric vehicle in operation today — more than double that in Tesla’s drivetrains. Indeed, the only vehicle in production that can match that is, interestingly, the Koenigsegg Regera, whose teensy 4.5 kWh battery is supplied by Rimac Automobili. Even Rimac’s own Concept_One supercar operates at a “mere” 650 volts. Down the road, the only announced passenger vehicle with an 800-volt system is the Porsche Mission E.

By claiming a range in excess of 400 miles, Fisker has set the bar higher than we expect anyone to match in the near term. Tesla CEO Elon Musk has said they are sticking to the 100 kWh-packs his company offers now, which, in the Model S 100D is good for an EPA combined average of 335 miles. One could argue that size is plenty large, as increasing to 145 kWh will add a significant amount of weight. Not only will extra heft impact handling, it takes more energy to haul the extra weight, reducing efficiency with every kilowatt of increased size.

Similarly, the decision to go with an 800-volt setup is also controversial.  The debate here, both for and against, can get pretty technical very quickly, with arguments to be made about increased efficiency, charge times, wire thickness, and safety. If you happen to be an electrical engineer, or perhaps, like us, have just been on the receiving end of a strong electric shock, feel free to share your expert opinions with us in the comments below.

Source: The Detroit Bureau

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38 responses to "Fisker EMotion To Get 145 kWh Battery Pack"

  1. Edward Arthur says:

    There will only be 5 people who can afford the car, but it will _look_ great.

    1. Mikael says:

      More like 17 million people….but it is still way to expensive.

      1. Mikael says:

        Sorry, confused the price with the EP9. At ~$129k it is more lika a a few hundred million that could afford it if they wanted to.

        1. Alan says:

          In 2016 total number of cars & light commercial vehicles sold worldwide was 88.1m,

          Not convinced a few hundred million could afford one if they wanted it ?

          1. Rob Stark says:

            Not everyone that can afford a new car buys one every year.

            There are 7.5B people on earth.

            Roughly 2/3 are adults 18-75.

            200M ÷ 5000M = .04

            I think 4 % of adults on earth could afford a $129k purchase. Not anywhere near that amount would actually spend that much on a car but they have the money or could qualify for a car loan in that amount.

          2. Mikael says:

            What people could afford if they wanted to and what people are buying are two totally different things.

            Also…the fleet is closer to 1,5 billion.

    2. Domenick Yoney says:

      It’s on my shortlist, but first I have to accomplish my lifetime dream: win the lottery.

  2. JR says:

    That is quite a lot of weight from the battery would be more than 1.2 ton, but there will properly be more choices for size
    I would be more a cruiser than a a sports car, but it looks great, and for the 800 Volt, this will be that new standard for the 350 KW charging infrastructure!
    and of course you need something to distends yourself from Tesla and lucid

    1. David H says:

      Battery pack density with Tesla style cells is in the region of 250 Wh/kg or 4 kg/kWh. This would result in 580 kg. If they really have the best energy density as they claim, this will be even lower, say half a ton. But definitely not 1.2 tons.

      1. Vexar says:

        the 85 kWh Tesla battery weighs 540kg. That means this is a 920 kg battery at Tesla-like density. That makes it a 1-ton battery. Fisker needs to hire a mathematician.

        1. Pajda says:

          The weight of battery is only a secondary problem, the main problem is in volumetric energy density. The real question is if LG finally make some breaktrough in current technology, or they just make a bigger car for higher volume of battery box exactly as Lucid and FF did.

          1. Pushmi-Pullyu says:

            Right, and thanks.

            Battery makers keep the exact details of their battery cells as trade secrets, but from various comments posted, it seems that LG Chem’s new cells are not significantly more energy dense than other current cells. As I understand it, the advantages of LG’s new cells are:

            1. Lower cost per kWh

            2. Higher DoD (Depth of Discharge) possible, so possible to use slightly fewer kWh (and therefore a slightly smaller/lighter pack) to drive the car a given number of miles.

            1. Pajda says:

              Thank you for your comments, In my opinion you just exactly described the current state of the art of Li-Ion technology.

              Today we can already find plenty of information supporting this conservative estimate rather than a big technological breakthrough.

              But still I am hoping that this guess is wrong and there are really much more energy-dense batteries on the way.

    2. turboro says:

      An Model S 150D would easily be possible, if Tesla would use the new 2170 batteries in the Model S, with almost same size but double energy capacity, with only a slight weight increase, the trick Renault did with Zoe 40.

      1. Pushmi-Pullyu says:

        That is almost entirely untrue.

        There is a lot of argument over whether or not the 2170 cells have significantly better energy density than the cells Tesla is currently using in MS/MX 100 kWh packs, but it certainly is a very significant overstatement to claim the energy density has been doubled by switching to the 2170 cells.

        And no, there isn’t enough room inside Tesla’s 100 kWh packs for 150 kWh, even using 2170 cells. Not even close with this year’s energy density. Give it another few years of continued energy density improvement, or perhaps a switch to solid state batteries.

  3. wavelet says:

    I’m curious what the car will actually weigh…

  4. Pushmi-Pullyu says:

    Not being an electrical engineer myself:

    Will the 800 volt system require an 800 volt charger? Or is there an onboard DC-to-DC voltage converter?

    If this car can’t use existing DCFC stations, then its usefulness is going to be somewhat limited. But then, perhaps the word “useful” should never be used in the same sentence with Fisker EMotion… 😉

    1. Davek says:

      Someone proposed a while back that an 800V pack could consist of two modules which could either be run in series for driving or charging at 800V, but then switched to parallel for 400V charging. You’d have to be a bit careful to balance the charge when you’re charging in parallel, but that’s got to be pretty standard procedure, especially for cars like Teslas that use lots of small cells with many parallel circuits already.

      1. SJC says:

        Yes, that is how it is done.

      2. Pushmi-Pullyu says:

        Thank you, Davek! Yeah, I think I read that, but had forgotten it.

        I think it’s a clever solution, altho perhaps obvious to electrical engineers.

        1. Pajda says:

          Davek is right, this is the way.

          The interesting question is also about the technical solution of 800V DCFC itselfs. If there will be commonly used one converter with wide range of operation 50-900V. Or there will be used two converters with 50-500V range which can be connected in series for 800V operation or in parallel (or independently) for 400V batteries.

      3. Amperaguy says:

        Just using time based switching to charge 400 V pack halves in turns would be more simple. Then you don’t need to solve balancing issues with parallel connection.

  5. floydboy says:

    That’s a seriously heavy battery. Yeah, it will definitely not be a ‘track’ car. Be interested to see if they really can pull it off.

    1. Alan says:

      I wonder how long the tyres will last on something that heavy !

    2. TT says:

      It mentioned that Fisker is using a new technology of battery Solid State Battery which will be much lighter than the lithium ion therefore, it should not effected the weight of the battery.

      1. Domenick Yoney says:

        It will not have a solid state battery. That’s something they say they are working on, but to begin, at least, it will use cells from LG Chem.

  6. SJC says:

    Slightly heavier than an Model S D100.

  7. ItsNotAboutTheMoney says:

    800V really isn’t controversial at all.

    800V charging is the aim for future BEVs to allow much faster charging.

  8. JimGord says:

    Vaporware

  9. xado says:

    a full model x costs here in austria
    185.000 $

  10. William says:

    False-Car E-commotion

    1. William says:

      Best looking, over batteried, premium luxury EV, that is not actually out on the road. I thank Henrik for dreaming big!

  11. Chris O says:

    800V is typically associated with really quick 350KW charging so to the extend those chargers are actually build -and there have been lots of talk about that- this car would be dragging a lot of superfluous battery capacity around.

    All in all this doesn’t really add up which is rather typical so far for this project.

    1. Pushmi-Pullyu says:

      It might not be superfluous if it allows the battery pack to run at a lower percentage of max power at top speed, reducing the problem with overheating, and perhaps letting the car do something the Model S P100D cannot: Run at maximum speed on a track for more than a few minutes without overheating.

      And please note I qualified that with “might” and “if”.

  12. Bill Howland says:

    People seem to get upset over what voltage things run on….. Maybe 100 years ago it was a bit of a concern but its not that big a deal these days, especially whether things are AC or DC.

    I don’t care what voltage it is as long as I can charge it easily at a commonplace location.

    In the states that would be J1772 compatibility so that it could be charged from people’s homes.

    145 kwh, especially from a proven source such as LG, (meaning they’ve certainly thought about the WHOLE issue – namely proper cooling or heating of the battery assembly at the various charge rates) is the new size to beat. If the car goes 400-500 miles on a charge, that would be super great.

  13. Scorpion says:

    This battery could work in a middle-class midsize sedan.

    Using the Li-Ion cost projection of $100/kWh, 145 kWh would be $14,500.

    Subtracting out the cost of an engine, exhaust and emissions-control system would save at least $5-7000.

    That brings us down to $7500 – $9500 premium over an ICE midsize.
    The Federal EV tax credit is….$7500.

    So, there’s a real opportunity for carmakers that have been on the sidelines with respect to EV’s.
    I’m talking to you Honda, Toyota and Chrysler.

  14. Priusmaniac says:

    That is rather positive. At 145 KWh, the car will certainly have 400 miles of range.
    At 800V they can use the new Porsche charger and still go down to 400V to charge at other chargers.
    Of course that is not solving the availability of a charging network. Presently there is almost none at 800V and still just a few at 400V, unless they make an agreement with Tesla to get access to the Superchargers.
    I am not sure making such a deal would be easy following the troubled past between the two companies, but that still is possible. After all the car is an ev and Tesla is open to all on a fair basis, so why not. But for sure, Tesla would rightfully, make a very clear contract though.

  15. Scorpion says:

    The lack of a nationwide CCS network is a scandal.

    I’m not too concerned with having 800v, just that they have sites at reasonably spaced distances, enabling cross-country travel.
    The voltage can always be upgraded later.

    According to my math, if we want to cover the lower 48 with stations no more than 100 miles apart, we would need each to cover [π x (50)^2] or about 8,000 sq. miles.
    Dividing 3,000,000 sq. miles by 8,000 we would need 375 stations.

    Using the highest estimate of $500,000 per station, that’s only about $200 million.

    For reference, that’s a fraction of the advertising budget for each of the Big 3…..heck it’s probably a fraction of what they advertise just on pickup trucks.
    The Big 3 had collective profits of over $10 billion last year; when you count Asian and European carmakers (who would also benefit from a CCS network) you’re probably looking at about $20 billion in annual profits from ICE sales in US.

    So, nationwide CCS would take only 1% of profits for a single year to give non-Tesla EV drivers ability to make road trips; probably less than 1% per year going forward to expand the # of plugs as EV’s increase market penetration.

    1%.
    Think about it. The auto industry has become a massive scam.

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