FirstElement Hydrogen Fuel Cell Stations Progress Delayed In California By 1.5 Year

JUN 10 2016 BY MARK KANE 44

Hydrogen fuel station Coalinga, CA (Harris Ranch Inn and Restaurant) - FirstElement Fuel's True Zero Hydrogen Network

Hydrogen fuel station Coalinga, CA (Harris Ranch Inn and Restaurant) – FirstElement Fuel’s True Zero Hydrogen Network

Automotive News reports that hydrogen refueling infrastructure installations are highly delayed in California.

One of the main players – FirstElement Fuel, who builds the True Zero Hydrogen Network, set 18 months ago, a target of 19 stations by 2015.

As it turns out, there is only 13 on-line today, and the full target will not be reached until early 2017, which translates to a delay of some 1.5 years.

The two major problems are: permitting and equipment issues.

There is only 6 other retail stations in the state, so the total number stands today at 19.

Those 19 pretty expensive stations are available for just under 400 hydrogen cars sold in retail (mostly made up of the Toyota Mirai, and over 100 Hyundai Tucson Fuel Cell) plus maybe a few more from other vendors.

Autoblog notes that in 2004 so-called California Hydrogen Blueprint Plan assumed 100 hydrogen stations by the end of 2010.  So, not that close…

source: Automotive News

Categories: General


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44 Comments on "FirstElement Hydrogen Fuel Cell Stations Progress Delayed In California By 1.5 Year"

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1.5 year and counting….2, 5, 10.
Ho, what the h..l!

You know what? Next gen fast charge networks will by far be the simplest, cheapest, and easiest to deploy fueling infrastructure there is. It may not be the fastest, but at 100-150 kW it will serve fine considering that not much more than an average of 5 percent of total yearly charging for 200-300 mile EVs is done with fast chargers. Practically this is what is looks like: In the U.S. the average man drives 16,550 miles per year, while the average woman drives 10,142 miles per year, so figuring a generous average of 15k miles a year, 5% is 750 miles. Figuring 100-150 miles per fast charge session, this means 5-8 fast charge sessions a year. Tesla average yearly Supercharger use is 5-8%, and there are a couple factors that push it that high too. In the future fast charging for longer range EVs like Tesla is actually expected by some analysts to reach around 2%. Another interesting comparison is the total yearly time spent fueling an ICE car versus an EV. With an ICE car, figuring fueling time of about 15 minutes per month gives 180 minutes per year which is 3 hours. So a total of… Read more »

Is it really due to permitting and equipment issues or money issues? I suspect the latter.

Since there’s no economic growth in hydrogen, it’s the only smart decision.

I would imagine putting your eggs in the hydrogen basket is a quick path to bankruptcy.

Nobody really suggests to put all eggs in any single basket but Musk cult followers. E.g. Toyota is most profitable automaker in the world. Tesla losses are covered by cult followers by yearly share dilutions. So who is closer to bankruptcy?

Anyone who thing hydrogen is of any significance for small vehicle or truck has all the requirement for bankruptcy.
Hydrogen has a chance for much more powerful need if more powerful mind work for it.
For car or light duty usage, it’s an obvious stupid, complex, and expensive thing to even think about it.

So go in energy producer blog and brag it there, it’s just another cult place.

zzzzzzzzzz asked:

“So who is closer to bankruptcy?”

Well, when it comes to intellectual bankruptcy, the few remaining shills for Big Oil that are still promoting this huge boondoggle, this scam foisted on the American and Japanese taxpayer to fund something that’s only an attempt by Big Oil to distract from the EV revolution… you’re already there. Fully bankrupt.

When it comes to financial bankruptcy… well, just how many of those relatively few H2 fueling stations have closed because they’re money-losers? Hmmmm?

And, dude: This thing where you keep trying to change the subject to bashing Tesla every time you lose an argument… not working for you.

I have no issue with battery cars taking all the market they can, I would be very happy about it. Yet you Musk cult followers are running to trash everything electric that has no Tesla badge on it.

Battery cars are fine when they are fine, e.g. for going around the home as far as battery allows. Any longer non-hypermiling trip with multiple rechargings and you need gas car to avoid nightmare of wasting too much of your precious time at chargers and paying a fortune for slow “quick” charging. Nobody has shown yet how to make quick charging station that would not cost many millions of dollars in grid peak power charges when grid is powered by solar/wind and balancing becomes an issue, or the same multiple millions of dollars for grid balancing batteries. And then you complain that first hydrogen stations are expensive but you are unable to show anything better except some dreams with zero serious studies backing them.


“…you Musk cult followers are running to trash everything electric that has no Tesla badge on it.”

Any true EV advocate should certainly trash “fool cell” cars, as the real purpose of putting them into production, and the real purpose of using public funds to finance H2 fueling stations, is to help Big Oil delay the EV revolution.

But of course, a Big Oil shill like you can never admit that’s true.

“…you complain that first hydrogen stations are expensive but you are unable to show anything better…”

Oh, what horse hockey. Ordinary gas stations are far, far better. Charging your plug-in EV at home or at work is even better than that.

…well, not your EV. Clearly a Big Oil shill like you will be a die-hard gasmobile driver until the day you die.

Who cares, I fuel up every night with extra power from my Solar Panels.

Do you solar panels work from moonlight?
It must be some great invention, I want it too 😉

Well short selling amti-tesla troll zzzzzzzzzz, my solar panels excess daytime production are stored for night usage by–my tesla powerwall!

With payoff at 40 years and natural gas backup from fossil fuel powered grid? Yes, you had wasted a lot of money on your cult beliefs, congratulations. It doesn’t help environment though.

Really zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz,

storing RE for night usage “…doesn’t help environment though.”

Well maybe in small minds like yourself and gigantic, fossil fueled egos like Trump.

Here in the real world, storage for RE is literally what is going to save the world from fools like you.

This is one case where Rip Van Winkle could wake up and think he was still living in the same time. Nothing changed.

Same old story same old song and dance:

But Toyota said there would be 50+ stations by now….

Toyota said a lot of things, like how BEVs suck compared to Hydrogen. Those words must be pretty tasty about now…

Sort of like crow.

What has the rapper to do with it???

Hydrogen is the fuel of the future…

…and always will be.

Named Fool-Cell by Musk for good reason.

Nothing even close to BEV.

Slow news day ?

The CEO of a company valued in billions, who is so desperate he continues to loose money despite all the cult hype, that resorts to competitor name calling. How many respectable businessmen did you heard acting such immature way? Never mind, it will match Trump the President quite well :/

Your comment makes no sense.

Dude… can’t you get it right? You’re falsely claiming that Tesla is losing money, not “loosing” it. Is it really that difficult to understand the difference? “Loose” is the opposite of “tight”.

And if Tesla is “losing” money… what, did it blow out the window? Did they forget what bank they put it in? Are termites eating it while they’re not looking??

Nope, Tesla is investing money in future growth. Most people understand the difference between investing money and losing it. Only you serial Tesla bashers have made the mistake of starting to believe your own lies about Tesla.

Fortunately in the real world, Tesla continues to grow, continues to succeed despite all the naysayers, and continues to steal market share from other auto makers.

Go Tesla!

You understand spelling but obviously don’t understand what is difference between loosing money and investing. Go and read Tesla financial reports at SEC, they can’t make ends even before investing. Or just don’t bother, don’t let the pesky arithmetic rules shake your true beliefs. GO TESLA, 2×2=5 as Musk said so!

Can’t wait for you to eat @#%$ in 2 plus years when Tesla EVs start outselling all others combined.

Tesla is leading this revolution and the rest are either being reluctantly and slowly dragged along or worse totally ignoring the future.

Its going to be fun watching them and people like you lose alot of money.

zzzzzzzzzz said:

“…obviously don’t understand what is difference between loosing money and investing.”

No, clearly that’s your problem, dude. And what a loser, you can’t even spell “lose”! 😀

Tesla has great chances to be the next ENRON.

What physical products was Enron selling so that this comparison would make any sense whatsoever?

Wow, you don’t say? I thought from what I read in 1995 that the hydrogen highway was nearly finished, and now you tell me it’s delayed again? I feel sorry for the 3 or 4 people this affects.

True Zero? How prophetic. Is that sort of like absolute zero?

Like anything else, if you dont know or understand the backbone of the industry you tend to speculate and say things out of emotion instead of knowledge.

Permitting is the main reason for delays.

There is space for both BEV and FCV. Imagine the time when there is a high selection of both options with supporting infrastructure.
When you can chose the solution that fits your life style best.
How dependent are you on recharge time and range etc.

Until then, the industry is working 24/7 provide you with such options.

Stay tuned – or charged!

There is place for anything that work well for most and is economically feasible.
That put hydrogen in a lot of trouble.
Don’t bother with inexistent charge time for 95% of EV owner, and figure out that a car sit still 90% of the time.
That a lot of time to do whatever is needed on it.
Don’t you think?
Probably not, you also probably think there is only one way to cook an egg.
What can we do for you then.

Pelle said:

“Permitting is the main reason for delays.”

Denying reality does not actually change reality. H2 fueling stations are too expensive to ever be profitable, selling fuel too expensive to ever be affordable.

Hydrogen fuel is economically unfeasible for the same reason it’s technologically unfeasible: Because are so many energy-losing steps between generating hydrogen and dispensing it into a “fool cell” car, and because it’s so difficult to work with that it requires very expensive equipment (as compared to a liquid fuel like gasoline), so it can never, ever possibly be affordable.

The question isn’t whether or not the use of hydrogen fuel will ever be widespread. That question has been very thoroughly answered. The question is why anyone still believes, in 2016, that it ever could be.

In summary, the original article, titled “Here come the hydrogen stations” reports that First Element has completed thirteen stations, but six of them will be delayed for another nine months due to permitting, etc.

By comparison, many of Tesla’s supercharging stations have been similarly delayed, though that was primarily caused by budgeting.

Meanwhile, reports 41 retail stations slated to open by the end of the year.

I cannot help but feel the negative spin on this news matches what this author has also perceived:

Your huffingtonpost link is pretty weak.
If you let an amateur art commentator interpret what he understand about a cherry pick measured well to wheel ratio are good or bad and concluded on this, then go for it.
I don’t.
For one the amount of Co² stay the same wherever hydrogen is produce is a bit suspect.
I haven’t read anything about the pumping losses require to store, transport and fill the FCEV.
I haven’t read anything about simple evaporating losses.
I haven’t read anything about the cost implementation of this hydrogen fill station, or the longevity of any FCEV and the cost of the fuel itself.
And nothing about the reasonable projection about cleaning the grid anyway.
Simply, if hydrogen is so good, it will succeed by its own merit.
So far it hasn’t and I won’t bet on that either.

The huffpost uses out of date grid info when the fact of the matter is that the grid is steadily getting greener and at some point will likely be rapidly accelerated to become zero carbon due to the EXTREMELY EXPENSIVE effects of AGW.

Also, many EV owners are taking advantage of the ultimate synergy of EV plus Solar since it is the only way an owner can make their own fuel.

Look for this process to likewise accelerate as costs come down and people become more knowledgable.

-“but six of them will be delayed for another nine months due to permitting, etc.”

Etc. = equipment issues.

“The two major problems are: permitting and equipment issues.”

-“many of Tesla’s supercharging stations have been similarly delayed”

Talk about apples to oranges. Any Tesla stations that were delayed due to permitting or as you say budgeting were a very small percentage of the overall very large number. In the case of the hydrogen stations it’s almost half of a very small number.

Put it this way. Let’s say that every single Tesla Supercharger was delayed for 3 years (which they clearly weren’t). That would still mean that they went from 0 Supercharging points to the 2,832 Supercharging points Worldwide in 3 years flat.

And they are adding more every day.

But since May 1st, Tesla only opened 26 new Supercharger Sites world wide, 14 in May, with 99 charging stalls in total, and 12 sites in June, so far, with 88 charging stalls!

So, 187 new Charging stalls, only for Tesla owners, by Tesla Motors, in just 40 Days!

Not counting the 98 additional CHAdeMO stations added, between April 20, and June 02, 2016, in USA only, – June 5th posting!

Taking the – data page, also shows 4 additional Supercharger sites, April 20, 2016, to April 26th, and 24 new charging Stalls!

So, 211 Supercharger Charging Stalls were added by Tesla, while other various independent companies installed just 98 single CHAdeMO Charging points!

Benefit: Tesla, access to 309 new fast charging points became accessable over that time frame!

Problem: All CHAdeMO cars other than Tesla’s, only 98 fast charging points were added for them!

Logical conclusion: Buy a Tesla = More places to charge, sooner!

Hmmm, last time I looked, Tesla’s biggest problem was struggling to increase production fast enough to meet the incredible demand for its cars.

Demand for “fool cell” cars? Not so much…

But hey, if you want to compare auto manufacturing’s biggest success since Ford invented the high-speed mass production line, to the embarrassing attempt to foist fool cell cars off on the public… we’re certainly not gonna stop you!

😀 😀 😀

The article says:

“As it turns out, there is [sic] only 13 on-line today…”

Frankly, that’s a lot more than I expected to see. How depressing that all that taxpayer money is being wasted on subsidizing horrendously expensive fueling stations, each of which can only fuel 2 or 3 dozen cars per day.

“Autoblog notes that in 2004 so-called California Hydrogen Blueprint Plan assumed 100 hydrogen stations by the end of 2010.”

Well of course, all along the idea that hydrogen powered cars for the masses, and the infrastructure to fuel them, could ever actually be built… is a fantasy that only a true physics denier could actually believe.

The idea that this could ever become reality is right “up there” with denying global warming.

Fuel Cells are just an Electric Generation Plant, that need a very special fueling service and infrastructure, so the are best used in conjunction with Wind Turbines that can Overproduce Electricity, to be used by an Electrolysis Plant to make H2, and Compress it for insertion into Fuel Cells for Turbine Idle times, as a time offsett floating buffer, to provide electricity when Turbines are Quiet!

Wait — Batteries can do that better, and when used with Supercapacitor, can deliver near instant grid power support, so even here, Fuel Cells and H2 are more of a waste than currently needed.

As long as governments fund hydrogen for transport, there will be millions spent, regardless of the outcome.

The very moment California (at least $20 million per year), the US Government through DOE, Japan and Europe stop funding the madness, hydrogen programs will end.

And not one moment sooner.