Tesla Reveals Supercharger Version 3.0: Up To 250 kW

MAR 6 2019 BY ERIC LOVEDAY 192

Right on schedule.

Tesla has announced the unveiling of its first-ever Supercharger version 3.0. This higher-powered charger will further enable and encourage long-distance travel.

Tesla CEO Elon Musk told us it would open this Wednesday and, sure enough, it will. This new, higher-powered Supercharger will enhance the long-distance travel capabilities of all Tesla vehicles.

***UPDATE: More speculation embedded in tweet form below.

***UPDATE 2: Superchargers being replaced with Version 3 and software update release notes are out (see below).

****UPDATE 3: Livestream video added above. Let’s hope it works! Livestream should start at 11 PM Eastern.

***UPDATE 4: Full press release added below.

Before we dive into the details, let’s look at what was speculated:

  • First unit to be located in Northwest U.S.
  • Built-in coolant system that pumps liquid into the cable portion
  • Charge rate of 200 kW initially, but 250 kW later on
  • Most beneficial to the Model 3, which can accept most all of the extra juice

Model 3 charging how fast! Say what?

New release notes:

Your Model 3 is now able to charge at V3 Superchargers at up to 250 kW peak rates. Supercharger stations with V3 hardware are designed to enable any owner to charge at the full power their battery can take – no more splitting power with another vehicle connected to your cabinet. This combination of higher peak power and dedicated vehicle power allocation across the site enables you to charge in half the time.

Also, when you navigate to a Supercharger, your car will condition its battery during the drive, so it can charge faster.

Musk made the version 3.0 announcement back on March 3 via Twitter. We’ve embedded his tweet below:

Okay, with the Supercharger V 3 primer out of the way, let’s move on to what’s now known. Tesla will host an event tonight at 8 PM Pacific Time (11 PM Eastern) in Fremont, California. Select invites have been sent out (see below).  V3 Superchargers will apparently work on all versions of the Model 3.

Full info here:

Introducing V3 Supercharging

Tesla has more than 12,000 Superchargers across North America, Europe, and Asia and our network continues to grow daily: more than 99% of the U.S. population is covered by the network, and we anticipate similar coverage in Europe by the end of 2019. Recently, we passed 90% population coverage in China and are growing that number quickly. However, in order to drive continued electric vehicle adoption and further accelerate the world’s transition to sustainable energy, charging needs to be even faster, and the number of vehicles able to charge at a location in a day needs to be significantly higher. Today, we’re unveiling V3 Supercharging, the next step in the growth of Tesla’s Supercharger network. V3, which is born from our experience building the world’s largest grid-connected batteries, enables our vehicles to charge faster than any other electric vehicle on the market today.

Faster Charging, No More Power Sharing
V3 is a completely new architecture for Supercharging. A new 1MW power cabinet with a similar design to our utility-scale products supports peak rates of up to 250kW per car. At this rate, a Model 3 Long Range operating at peak efficiency can recover up to 75 miles of charge in 5 minutes and charge at rates of up to 1,000 miles per hour. Combined with other improvements we’re announcing today, V3 Supercharging will ultimately cut the amount of time customers spend charging by an average of 50%, as modeled on our fleet data.Supercharger stations with V3’s new power electronics are designed to enable any owner to charge at the full power their battery can take – no more splitting power with a vehicle in the stall next to you. With these significant technical improvements, we anticipate the typical charging time at a V3 Supercharger will drop to around 15 minutes.

On-Route Battery Warmup
New Supercharging infrastructure isn’t the only way we are improving our customers’ charging experience. Beginning this week, Tesla is rolling out a new feature called On-Route Battery Warmup. Now, whenever you navigate to a Supercharger station, your vehicle will intelligently heat the battery to ensure you arrive at the optimal temperature to charge, reducing average charge times for owners by 25%.

This combination of higher peak power with V3, dedicated vehicle power allocation across Supercharger sites, and On-Route Battery Warmup enables customers to charge in half the time and Tesla to serve more than twice the number of customers per hour. Additionally, we are also unlocking 145kW charge rates for our 12,000+ V2 Superchargers over the coming weeks.

With Model 3 now shipping globally in high volumes and Model Y on the way, V3 Supercharging enables us to deliver the fastest production charging experience at an unprecedented scale compared to other electric vehicle manufacturers. By increasing the number of vehicles we’re able to charge at each Supercharger in a day, the investment we’re making in our network will go significantly further with every V3 station deployed. Paired with other savings, these efficiencies will translate to an increased pace of investment for Superchargers moving forward, with a continued focus on getting to 100% ownership coverage across all regions we operate. With thousands of new Superchargers coming online in 2019, the launch of V3, and other changes we’re making to improve throughput, the Supercharger network will be able to serve more than 2x more vehicles per day at the end of 2019 compared with today – easily keeping pace with our 2019 fleet growth.

Beginning today, we’re opening the first public beta site in the Bay Area, which will incrementally be made available to owners in Tesla’s Early Access Program. We’re launching V3 Supercharging for Model 3, our highest volume vehicle, and we’ll continue to expand access as we review and assess the results of millions of charging events. We will increase Model S and X charging speeds via software updates in the coming months. V3 Supercharging will roll out to the wider fleet in an over the air firmware update to all owners in Q2 as more V3 Superchargers come online. Our first non-beta V3 Supercharger site will break ground next month, with North American sites ramping in Q2 and Q3 before coming to Europe and Asia-Pacific in Q4.

In somewhat related news, Tesla will officially unveil the Tesla Model Y on March 14.

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192 Comments on "Tesla Reveals Supercharger Version 3.0: Up To 250 kW"

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(11:00pm EST)

“Tesla will host an event tonight at 8 PM Pacific Time (5 PM Eastern)”

8 P.M. Pacific is 11 P.M. Eastern

Tesla time. Hahaha!

“Most beneficial to the Model 3, which can accept all of the extra juice.”

Haha…there is no chance that the Model 3 will get close to charging at 200 kW anytime soon.

Ha ha ha. Guess we’ll see shortly.

Wow, no one is covering this outside of a few EV sites. CNBC is still running articles about Elon Musk thinking SpaceX would fail back in 2002.

It might have got more attentioned if it hadn’t been swamped by all the other Tesla news this month.

isn’t that EXACTLY what the FUD is trying to do?

Still 0 articles in the news. CNN for awhile had an entire section called Tesla Troubles. Now, nothing.

The people at CNN are old and need their kids to plug in their phones for them. They don’t know how to plug in an EV, so they don’t know how to cover this story or why it matters. (That is sarcasm. At least I hope it is… I mean I hope it is not true and just a joke. But I am not really sure…)

Good news doesn’t sell. There has been a plethora of good news lately, but you won’t see it on most mainstream media outlets. If you do, it will have a twisted title and narrative to prove how all of it is actually bad news. That’s how they make money.

Micke Larson said: “…Haha…there is no chance that the Model 3 will get close to charging at 200 kW anytime soon.”
———-

Stay tuned… happening tonight. And perhaps “one more thing”?

What is 2.3C charging among friends

Model 3 MR can already charge at 117 kW – or about 1.9C. Ie it’s running into the same limit as the LR car.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3IpHz_j9hy0

In this context, “C refers to the “C rate”, or charging/discharging rate of the battery pack. A C rate of 1.0 would be fully discharging a fully charged battery pack in 1 hour. As I recall, a C rate of around 2.0 would be pretty normal for a recently made BEV; a C rate of 2.5 would be superior. Anything much beyond that would be surprising, and a claim for something on the order of 3.0 or above would cause me to doubt the claim.

Let’s be clear here: The physical limit to the C rate isn’t the charger or the cables or the wiring, it’s the battery cells. If we want a high C rate, then we need EV cells with considerably lower internal resistance. That’s not impossible; we’ve seen cells in laboratory demos with much lower resistance. But that characteristic isn’t seen in cells sold in quantity.

Internal resistance is only part of the story (and can be mitigated up to some point by better cooling) — there are other physical limitations as well.

C rates of 3 and beyond are nothing unusual. They are totally standard in PHEVs and some short-range BEVs. We haven’t seen them yet in long-range BEVs — but that doesn’t mean some major breakthrough is required for this to change.

Currently, but then when the pick-up then roadster come out, or maybe even the Y they will able to handle to more juice, plus the Model 3 could be updated too. In addition the semi will be able to use them.
Staff: thanks for fixing the like.

The Semi will get dedicated Megachargers… You wouldn’t want to see a semi blocking half a Supercharger site 🙂

Stop by the Folsom, CA supercharger at night. They have extension cords!

That’s for testing and since there currently aren’t any megachargers what else do you expect them to do?…

Ill be happy if it can keep above 100kw at least until 80% in the Base trim of the Model 3.

Possible, but it’s a bit hard. The taper will probably increase together with the maximum charging rate, but not so much. Audi e-Tron achieves that “magic”, charging at 50 kW nearly to 100%, with a consistent buffer on the battery (around 83 kWh available out of 95). Tesla Model 3 has a lot less buffer, which maximizes range, but it’s in contrast with fast charging until the end. Still, now Model 3 will probably be the faster charging EV of the world at >150 kW!

Nope, for LR, drops to 100kW around 64% which is better than V2 specs. I suspect a very similar charging curve to LR when comparing them using the SOC.

Why not?

Owned.

Saying “this comment didn’t age well” would be an understatement 😛

Wow, this comment didn’t age well at all. Proved wrong in mere hours. Peak power is 250 kW and has been demonstrated by the public who charged at it last night. Also shown in the promo video.

I don’t pay attention to comment scores too often, but this one is the first I remember seeing to hit triple digits!

Nah, there were more downvotes when the news broke that Munro got sued because of the Model 3 teardown, and David Green immediately gloated how it must obviously be Tesla suing… (Just to be proven wrong mere hours later.)

Charging at 250 kW but tapering off already at 16%! It is a poor marketing gimmick.

Cool!
Maybe coast to coast completed about the time the Roadster comes out, and then you could just fly across the U.S.A. In 8-10 charges.

“Most beneficial to the Model 3, which can accept all of the extra juice”

Best case scenario, how long would it take to juice a M3LR from 20%-80%?

36 minutes. BCS
But that’s at the current rate of 125kW, assuming updates can take it to 200kW, maybe 25 minutes, but I’m no math wiz. It’s not exactly a reciprocal relationship.

Best Case Scenario (assuming 200kW all the way from 20% to 80%):
(((80%-20%)*75)/200)*60 = 13.5 mins

Heating/cooling/charge loss/taper could all chew into that though.

So somewhere between 15-25 min. realistically?

And using 250kw which is what Tesla is saying will happen, that time drops to just over 10 minutes. Assuming a 75kwh battery, then 20%-80% requires 45kwh of energy. To hit that in 20 minutes (1/3 of an hour) you have to pull 3*45=135 kw of power for 20 minutes on average. So if you believe this new charger can do that, then everything over 135kw average will be taking you further beneath 20 minutes.

Right, but BCS does not mean impossible. The average would probably be less than 130kW. Still it’s good to have the information.

I think M3LR will shave about 5 minutes off the 10% to 50% time – reducing ~17 minutes down to ~12 minutes (40% faster).

If the taper doesn’t change, then it’ll be the same 5 minutes saved on a 30 minute 20% to 80% charge, so 25 minutes (20% faster, a nice but small improvement).

However, the claim by /u/netbrown is that the taper has also been improved.

We’ll see tonight or perhaps over the next couple of days.

I think the main point is the flexible charge sharing between multiple cars. Now we don’t have to pull in and find the dreaded 30 kW charge rate because the paired car is stealing all the power. That is priceless. The rest is just gravy

So 60% of 75 kWh = 45 kWh. At 200 kW that would take 13.5 minutes, If it can sustain peak power from 20 to 80%, which is possible. At 4 miles per kWh, you are charging at 800 mph.

My Leaf has a 40 kWh battery. Charging more than its complete capacity in under 15 minutes is astounding.

They claim an “average” charging session will now take 15 minutes… Is 20% – 80% an average session? Not sure — but I’d say it sounds about right.

Do Not Read Between The Lines

If driving long distance, then assuming optimal Supercharger spacing and location, it’s faster to drive fast and go quite deep (maybe down to 10%) and then charge to 60% or 70%, maybe even a bit less.

Charging 10-80% SOC is often used for timing. See
https://ev-database.org/

OOOOPS! Erik – “Tesla will host an event tonight at 8 PM Pacific Time (5 PM Eastern) in Fremont, California.” is Backwards – 8 PM Pacific – is 11 PM Eastern! You got a 6 Hour Miss there!

*Edit – Sorry for my late Reply – I was looking at another linked story here – first, after opening both! Forgot to hit Refresh, first!

No worries. Thank you. We deal with ET, CT, PT, and GMT all on different sites and areas of the site. Sometimes it just screws with our heads!

Simply quote GMT. A small fraction of the audience will be in synch, and a larger portion will be scratching their heads. (-;
joking – don’t really do it.

GMT = Generally Meaningless Time

You really need to understand why timezones were introduced, why they are important and why there needs to be a point zero somewhere on the planet.
GMT === UTC-0 which is the modern way of saying it.

I’m sorry, but you have confused readers here with Phileas Fogg.

I’m capable of looking up times in relation to GMT online, but I have no need nor desire to use such an awkward and non-intuitive method of timekeeping in real life.

UTC is actually not exactly the same as GMT… They the differences do not matter in ordinary timekeeping.

UTC is the time base. GMT is not equal to UTC during day-light saving (summer-) time.

It is Greenwich Mean Time. I think that is in Connecticut. There was a men’s club there that did lots of exploring, hunting in Africa, and sciences. They invented the pocketwatch there, and because of their travels, standardized time in different areas. It was also where a lot of American railroad tycoons would hang out, so as the Trans-continental railroad was built in the USA, it became necessary. The day starts at 6am for a gentleman, and it works out that, as an homage to the British men that came before, they are the zero hour. The thought was that someday, men could travel fast enough to leave Britain at midnight and arrive in time for breakfast. With the SpaceX intraplanetary flight, this will finally be possible for gentlemen as far away as Bombay or darkest Africa. Bully, Elon!

Connecticut, huh? I believe the Queen would beg to differ.

Actually, please do it. It’s much easier to handle, since you only need to know your own offset to GMT/UTC, rather than the difference to various other time zones… (Especially for those who happen to live outside that small part of the world called the USA.)

Phoenix is alway -7 h UTC/GMT, and we don’t fiddle with our clocks for daylight savings time, and neither does GMT nor UTC, so easy for me.

Is it going to be streamed or live blog anywhere?

200 kW seems to be the minimum expectation. But what about charging the Roadster with its much bigger battery? That, plus the Tesla Semi supposedly going into production later this year. Can we expect to be presented with specifics on the MegaCharger for the Semi tonight?

I think Tesla is working backward from the MegaCharger needed by the Semi, down to SuperCharger speeds needed for new Roadster and next-gen S and X with the big 600 mile packs. So if the range/pack is doubling, then the speed has to double to maintain current rate, and 25-50% more for improvement. This gives a completely un-scientific 125+125+~50% speed target or just over 350kWh(I think more so Porsche is not the leader in fast-charging) speed range to be ready for Roadster that launches next year. And that is just to maintain full pack charging speed with a less than 50% speed increase. I already saw where Model 3 pack can handle 200kWh which is the most for Tesla models today, and expect Tesla just upgraded the S and X packs recently with new cells so they can benefit from V3 as well. Logically it makes no sense to lunch new faster Superchargers if their flagship models can’t use it. Tesla is smarter than that. My guess today is that we see the new V3 charger along with the new Megacharger for the Semi. I recently saw the black/grey Megcharger being used by engineers to charge the Semi they were… Read more »

Porsche likes to throw around the 350 kW figure; but the prototypes spotted thus far, as well as the actual charging times they mention, all indicate that the Taycan will in fact only charge at ~250 kW…

How many 600 mile trips you gonna take in a Roadster per day? Charging 500 miles of range in an hour seems reasonable….

When you pay $200k for a car, you don’t want to make compromises. I suspect the roadster will charge at 500kw (a charge port on both sides).

When you pay $200 000 for a car, you don’t even drive it much. You mostly just lord it over your friends. 😉

The roadster would be the ultimate salesman car. Flashy, classy, comfortable, shows your customers you’re not carelessly destroying the environment, low fuel cost, autopilot to help with long drives, and ready every morning to go another 600 miles.

On CCS model 3 has trouble charging at 120 kW after a few minutes, going down to 60 kW far before 80%. I would be very happy that it can charge at let’s say 200 kW with new superchargers, but if it is only for a short percentage of the charge what’s the point? Better investing in more locations…
Furthermore the CCS issue was with a 75 kWh battery, so it could be quite worse with the 35 000 USD model.
Hopping to be wrong and happily surprised tonight, or probably tomorrow for Europe.

Do Not Read Between The Lines

Any such CCS issue would be software.
There are also other CCS charging issues that need to be fixed with a firmware update.

I’ll be standing right to the left of Elon when he throws the switch! Can’t wait!

Isn’t it dangerous to be that tacky around electricity?

Nonsense, high voltage electricity is perfectly safe.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AFI4HRpBTkM

“Standing right to the left” —– no comment

Higher priority is offering the CCS compatible charging port and adaptor for the Model 3 for US same as European version. You’d think Tesla would be doing this in US so it doesn’t have to make two different charging systems.

It also lets Tesla owners charge at all the EvGo CCS chargers.

Do Not Read Between The Lines

It has CCS Type 2 in Europe. But they were already using Type 2 for AC charging.
In the USA it uses its own connector and a change to CCS would lose AC compatibility as well.
In Japan it needs CHAdeMO and in China it needs GB/T, both of which are CAN-based, like their Supercharger protocol.
The top BEVs in the USA by far are Teslas and the Nissan Leaf, none of which use uses CCS.
There’s really no incentive to change in the USA, unless they want to help EVGo and ElectrifyAmerica, both of which exist only because of settlements with corporations.

Don’t just down vote: respond! There’s a number is thoughts in this comment that bear discussion. Tesla went to CCS 2 in Europe because it was mandated to an extent. But I was not aware of the conflict between CCS in the U.S. and Tesla connectivity. The issue wasn’t as great in Europe because of the 220 volt standard. The issue here is being able to use the Tesla connector for 110, 220 volt and DC fast charge, in addition to Supercharging. Currently, this is a tough nut to crack because CCS fast charge supposedly won’t work with adapters. Yes, I would love to use CCS DC fast chargers with a Tesla. It would be nice to hear a response from Tesla as to whether it is even possible given the different computer language between the CAN of Tesla and what is used for CCS. As to the need for Tesla not wanting to build two different charging systems as mentioned by the OP; there is so much difference between the Europe CCS Type 2 system and the U.S. version, they really are two different systems to begin with. It would make little difference to Tesla whether they built a… Read more »

I don’t believe that it’s impossible for American Tesla cars to use CCS charging for DC fast charging, despite the fact that European Tesla cars can. That can’t be right. Even if it would require a “smart” adapter or one with some sort of converter that switches three-phase DC power to one-phase, or vice versa, that doesn’t make it impossible. At some level, DC electricity is DC electricity.

May not be impossible but not easy… if it were, someone would have come out with it already… obviously Tesla chooses to focus on their superior network which doesn’t have connectivity issues. Euro CCS is glitch still, per Bjorn’s testing…

Well, speaking as an engineer, it really isn’t that difficult to have a little embedded processor follow a few high level rules to interface between the two protocols. Just think of your cell phone handling data transfers between WiFi, Bluetooth, USB, and LTE, all of which are orders of magnitude more complex than CCS’s PLC and Tesla’s CAN bus, both of which are simple, ancient communication protocols.

There may be organizational (getting rights), or political or just plain business reasons Tesla hasn’t done it yet, but it seems like a relatively easy thing to do.

I don’t know the details of the higher-levels of how they set up the communications. I’m sure there are car IDs and vendor IDs and maybe even encryption, so an amateur probably doesn’t have access to this information, which may be why no third party adapters have shown up.

“Three-phase DC”? What are you smoking?…

Do Not Read Between The Lines

Again: backwards compatibility for _AC_ charging is an issue in the USA: Tesla doesn’t currently use J1772. Europe and Australian Teslas already used an amended Type 2 socket, so they could go to CCS Type 2 and not affect AC charging at all.

Of course it’s possible to offer a CCS adapter. If they can make a Combo2 adapter for Europe, why wouldn’t they be able to make a Combo1 adapter for North America?…

Type 2 has come to North America via SAE J3068. All European Type 2 charging stations (AC and DC) are 100% backwards compatible with J3068, which also has an inexpensive extension for handling North American AC voltages that are too high for the European system (480 V in the US and 600 VAC in Canada). J3068 will probably only be used on trucks that need the higher power AC, which should easily reach 100 kW (higher in Canada). Some trucks already use CCS 2 DC in North America.

“Some trucks already use CCS 2 DC in North America.”

Do you have an example?

Adapter, sure. Port, no thanks. I prefer the current port over the CCS frankenplug.

Superchargers are all over the place, 8 or 10 stalls at a time, while my whole state has like a half a dozen stalls of CSS outside of the 2 big cities, and no CSS over 40kW. There’s a lot of complaints of them not working too. What would the point be for Tesla to spend all those resources to support something so pathetic?

They’d need two standards anyway. (Type 1 vs. Type 2)

A US CCS adapter would surely be useful in some situations; but not really high priority. Last I heard, there are very few routes in the US that have CCS coverage but no Superchargers…

It is kinda weird because the main charging limitation is the cars, NOT the chargers. It is not that hard to build powerful chargers (it costs a bit more) but the real skill comes in building good batteries that can take a big charge without overheating or damaging them.

They probably want powerwalls in the chargers to keep the electricity prices down from 2 arms and 2 legs to just an arm and a leg.

The Tesla Superchargers have actually been constructed from multiple Model S chargers that operate in parallel. Clever technique to reduce the number of components that they need to manufacture. And yes, PowerPacks have been added to Supercharger site to reduce demand charges.

Isn’t superchargers DC while regular chargers AC?

All power going into a battery is DC. An AC charger turns AC into DC to charge the battery. The Superchargers do the same thing except there are 10 or more Model S chargers in parallel shoving a ton of DC power into the battery.

The onboard charger accepts AC input and charges the DC battery. There is a circuit that knows when an AC charge cable (like the one you use at home) is plugged in or a Supercharger charge cable is plugged in. If it is a Supercharger cable, it bypasses the onboard charger and sends the juice directly to the battery.

Yes. The “charger” circuitry is the AC to DC circuitry. Every car has a small charger circuit in it. The Superchargers are big external chargers. And the way they build them is to have a whole bunch of their small AC to DC chargers that operate in parallel and pipe the DC straight into the car.

Which is another showcase of Tesla’s engineering prowess that they were able to leverage their existing, mass-produced in-car inverters straight into their SuperChargers by installing them in series.

This modular approach also allowed them to keep increasing the charging rates by stacking more of them into the series.

Rectifiers, not inverters.

(And BTW they abandoned this approach with V3…)

It is more than a rectifier, power quality requirements (see SAE J2894) mandate no more than 10% total harmonic distortion in the current waveform to reduce triplen harmonics that add up in the unfused neutral line of the three phase distribution network. Many if not most on-board-chargers are as complex as an inverter, they just delivery power in the other direction. Some are actually bi-directional and the main difference is just software.

It’s not about complexity. A unit converting AC to DC is a rectifier; a unit converting DC to AC is an inverter.

(And not only some, but in fact *all* EV inverters can be reconfigured as rectifiers — that’s how regenerative breaking works…)

It’s kind of both, you need to keep temperatures in check on the cable. There is also a difference in charge profile.

It’s both, but cables ore only a small part of the equation. The transformers and rectifiers all need to deliver the extra power as well.

Charge profiles on the other hand shouldn’t matter at all. The external charger just follows commands from the car’s BMS.

“Most beneficial to the Model 3, which can accept all of the extra juice”

Assuming this is true, this will end up being a thing that really pushes people into the larger battery (read more expensive) trims of the Model 3. Because the size of the battery is a HUGE factor in how fast of a charge you can handle.

If you frequently drive long distances, it may be the charging speed just as much as (if not more than) the range that pushes you to buy a car with the larger battery pack.

Do Not Read Between The Lines

Oh noes, the SR would only get 125kW charging.

If you drive long distances frequently you’ll want the LR anyway because you have fewer Supercharger stops.

It is unlikely that a SR Model 3 can do 125kw. And even if it can, it will only be for a few minutes and then slow down. The point is that BOTH the range AND the slower charging time slow trips.

The fastest way to drive long distance is actually to do more stops than necessary since you should leave when you have enough power to make it to the next charger instead filling it all the way up because it goes real slow near the end.

My back-of-the-envelope figures suggest that charging at >150 kW for any significant period of time is extremely unlikely. So no, I would bet money that Tesla will not be announcing that the Model 3 can charge at an average rate of 200-250 kW, or even at 200 kW for more than (at most) a very few minutes.

250 kW charging is perhaps something that the Roadster Mk II, with its 200 kWh battery pack, might be able to do. And of course, we can expect future Tesla cars to charge at a faster rate.

But those who think that Tesla will demonstrate a production Model 3 charging at 200-250 kW for a significant period of time… Those people will almost certainly be disappointed by what Tesla will show tonite.

Tesla already announced it and updated the blog post and the Supercharger section on its website. It’s definitely happening.

I’m going to stick my my assertion here, Steven. I wasn’t able to watch the live stream, but from the description in the press release of “peak rates of up to 250kW” and “charge at rates of up to 1,000 miles per hour” (emphasis added), I think it’s pretty clear that no, a production unit Model 3 (not one specially engineered for a demo) can’t charge at that high a rate on a sustained basis, up to 80% SOC, nor anywhere close to 80%.

And if I’m wrong, well, details will emerge in the coming weeks as to what real-world Tesla owners are able to get from the new Supercharger Version 3.0.

So define “a significant period of time”. 😉

Long enough to charge a LR TM3 from 10% to, oh, let’s say 50% SOC.

Back-of-the-envelope figures? What did you base your back-of-the-envelope calculation on? Sounds more like you didn’t calculate anything at all, just made some guesses…

Most people don’t care about the absolutely fastest drive, but rather about the most convenient drive. Range definitely helps with that — often more than charging speed, beyond a certain point.

Strange article as many Model 3s have already hooked up to 350kw chargers in Europe and still only maxed out at 120kw

Tesla more than likely restricted the CCS equipped Model 3s until they can unveil their Supercharger V3 in order to not be “one upped.” Whatever they did to restrict the charge rate could be causing all of the problems Bjorn Nyland was encountering while charging a European Model 3 on CCS.

I’ve never seen a company so lacking in confidence and self esteem that they negatively affected their customers because of it.

Tesla “one upped” by the Model 3 charging time? That doesn’t make sense.

No. Supercharger V3 one upped by the CCS 2 standard.

I think he is referring tot he Ionity, Fastned and similar chargers in Germany and other countries which can reach up to 350kw. One upped in the sense that Ionity would charge a TM3 faster than one of Tesla’s own SC’s. After SC V3 is realeased, then perhaps the Ionity limits can be increased as well.

Exactly. What would it do for Tesla’s image if the CCS standard was charging their cars faster than their own proprietary standard?

Nothing

Max power output depends on the amps and volts so its possible some of the ccs chargers don’t provide enough amps to charge Model 3 at max rate which only operates at ~350v.

Exactly. Fastned’s 175 kW chargers only supply 375 A, which aligns with the ~125 kW rate people observed with Model 3. Other 175 kW chargers max out at 350 A, so even less.

350 kW chargers on the other hand allow 400 or even 500 A — so with updated software, these should enable somewhat higher charge rates going forward… (Nothing close to 250 kW, though.)

You’re correct of course. But your last sentence is critical towards Tesla. That’s forbidden here, didn’t you know?

Congratulations! You have won the prize for dumbest comment!

Or maybe the simply didn’t have motivation to upgrade the BMS software yet? Oh no, that would be way too boring… Clearly, they must have done it on purpose instead!

Do you have an iPhone?

The Model 3’s are maxed out because of a software bug, not because of a Model 3 design issue. The issue will be dealt with by software update. Eventually. (It doesn’t appear to be an immediate priority.)

Some charging sessions are slower due to software bugs apparently preventing operation in CCS 2.0 mode; but other limitations could be support for higher rates simply not being implemented/enabled in the BMS yet (rather than buggy), because they haven’t sufficiently tested behaviour with higher rates yet.

Are there actual reports with 350 kW stations? I haven’t been following too closely: the last I saw was with 175 kW stations… Which were in fact pretty close to the limit of what a 350 V battery can get from a typical 175 kW charger. (~125 kW with 375 A chargers, ~120 kW with 350 A ones.)

Also aren’t those CCS 350kW units needing an 800v battery to get to 350kW? If Tesla moves to an 800v battery they could get 500kW out of V3, or am I just off base here?

Well, yes and no… V3 is not actually enabled to deliver more than 500 V.

200 KW. Wow! What’s that equate to? 20-30 min charge times? Less? Insanely good stuff!

250kW actually

I’m bed

I don’t like the idea of liquid cooled cables. That seems like something that is going to leak eventually and lead to chargers that are no longer functioning.

But perhaps the issue is that they would need really THICK DC cables to do it without cooling and people don’t like such big bulky cables.

In terms of “leaking”, electricity is a much more serious concern than coolant…

Let’s hope that Tesla will finally bring type 2 CCS to the US using the J3068 standard as an extra port in their cars. Eventually it would become a worldwide standard.

Won’t happen. There is very little motivation to switch passenger cars from Type 1 to Type 2 in North America; nor to switch to any type of CCS in Japan or China.

China already uses a type 2 style plug for AC. 85% of world population lives in countries with 3-phase 400/230 V AC.

Where the hell can we watch the live stream?

We’ll be updating the post.

Kenneth Bokor (EV Revolution Show)

Ok that’s great so 250kW charging. Already seeing 350kW in Europe and more proposed.

With less energy dense battery packs and higher degradation.

Taycan will have a range of ~225 miles.

NMC is able to charge faster than NCA while still showing less degradation. Teslas only option to counter NMCs fast charging with their current cell chemistry is reduced lifetime.

Tesla batteries have the least degradation we have seen on the market and they are also the most efficient and give the highest performance.
NMC batteries means slower vehicles.

The only reason Teslas battery life is good, is because the battery is big. Twice the capacity means half the load and half the cycles, which translated to more than double the lifetime (measured in energy delivered) . I am a little more concerned for Teslas small packs like Model 3s 50kWh.

NMC is more efficient (less waste heat), and can deliver more power. The advantages Tesla vehicles have in these respects are *not* because of battery chemistry.

While NMC can offer faster charging and longer life *everything else being equal*, the idea that there is a selectable trade-off between these properties is mostly nonsense. If you charge faster than the cells can withstand, degradation goes up *massively* — nobody would do that, and certainly not Tesla.

There is no passenger car existing or announced, in Europe or elsewhere, that can actually charge faster than a Model 3 at 250 kW. Having 350 kW chargers is nice, but meaningless for the time being.

Just looking at the charging graphs for the Model 3, if you extrapolate back the taper to a peak, eliminating the plateau at 117kW or so, it doesn’t appear that you will get a peak at 200kW. Maybe 180kW, but assuming the taper is the same, it’ll only just spike up to that point and immediately start tapering down. Sure, it’ll be momentarily faster, but ultimately, it might only save a handful of minutes. Good to be sure, but not as good until they have cars that can take that high of a charge.

Hello! we have video proof of model3 charging at 256kW

There is no live-stream I guess. Turns out this was a private event, and it got leaked.

Extraordinary disappointed tonight… no autonomous snakey-charger, no official livestream. All there is is this blog post, with a 15 second video showing a Model 3 charging at over 250 kW and receiving over 1000 miles/hour. I’ll post the link in a response so this comment doesn’t get held up in a moderation queue.

Good news is that 1000 miles/hour seems to be an artificial cap on what it displays. At 245 kW it said 1000 miles/hour, but it went up to 256 kW in the video, still saying that, so really, there’s going to be peaks where it’s getting more like 1040 miles/hour.

The link I promised in my original comment:
https://www.tesla.com/blog/introducing-v3-supercharging

Model 3 charging at over 250KW is damn impressive to me. That must be a long-range version. I wonder what the rates are like for the smaller battery versions.

As I’ve already mentioned, I think that it is very important for Tesla to get this information out there because this will push people to the higher priced trims in order to get the fast charge rates.

Thanks for the link!

FWIW, the only link I ever had held up in moderation was to a SeekingAlpha article… (Admittedly, I’m not posting links all that often.)

Either way, I don’t see anything urgent about your post that wouldn’t stand a delay?…

Where did you get the 626 mile per hour number? It’s more like 1000 miles per hour. Most charging will take less than 15 minutes.

This is from Tesla website:
“V3 is a completely new architecture for Supercharging. A new 1MW power cabinet with a similar design to our utility-scale products supports peak rates of up to 250kW per car. At this rate, a Model 3 Long Range operating at peak efficiency can recover up to 75 miles of charge in 5 minutes and charge at rates of up to 1,000 miles per hour. “

626 was prior to the update from Tesla. It was a link to an old article. We updated the post. Just refresh

Really excellent progress again from Tesla as they make their class-leading products even better!

Although I would argue that the existing 120KWH rate on my Model 3 LR is already completely adequate since it adds about 200 miles to the range in 1/2 hour if you start at a 10% SOC and this allows 3 hours of freeway driving for every 1/2 charging plus bathroom/eating/stretching legs stop.

Making the charging faster is good since most people don’t drive a Model 3 or even an EV so they need to be reassured and the best thing about this V3 Supercharger is no more splitting output per every 2 Superchargers/cabinet so you will always charge at the fastest rate.

Oh cool….that onroute battery warm-up is brilliant. Speed up your charging AND it will help reduce congestion at Supercharger sites.

Tesla is solving EV problems that other automakers do not even know exist yet. LOL

Once again, leveraging their gigantic lead in software and OTA over the laggard OEMs.+

That’s something I was suggesting to GM about the Bolt. I guess it fell on deaf ears.

What impressed me about Tesla is that they constantly upgrade existing vehicles. Will we ever see existing Bolt EVs or Leafs charging faster than 50kW? No, you would have to buy a new car to get any improvements.

Yes, Tesla’s business model really represents a paradigm shift in so many ways from the existing, stagnant model of the auto business.

“V3 is a completely new architecture for Supercharging. A new 1MW power cabinet with a similar design to our utility-scale products supports peak rates of up to 250kW per car. At this rate, a Model 3 Long Range operating at peak efficiency can recover up to 75 miles of charge in 5 minutes and charge at rates of up to 1,000 miles per hour.”

“Our first non-beta V3 Supercharger site will break ground next month, with North American sites ramping in Q2 and Q3 before coming to Europe and Asia-Pacific in Q4.”

The new 1MW power cabinet is essential for the upgrade to the version 3.0 Supercharger.

That means that all existing cabinets at the 1,400+ Supercharger sites will have to be replaced, right?

Will they all be replaced before 1st January 2020?

Yes, but in the meantime, V2 will be upgraded via software to 145kw, so people should still see faster charging prior to v3 upgrade.

250kW/350V=714 Amps?! Wow, no wonder they need liquid cooling in the charging cord. This is a game changer for long distance trips.

@ Eric Loveday

The new power cabinets will be 1 MW.

Two stalls per cabinet.

Each Tesla EV will be getting up to 250 KW.

That means that it’s technically possible that at some point in time in the future Tesla could decide to increase the charge rate per Tesla EV to an even higher level (perhaps up to 500 KW), while using the same 1MW power cabinets?

Would that be a correct assumption?

Where did you get “two stalls per cabinet”?…

I very much doubt they have that kind of reserve. It would be total waste. If they ever want to up the power, they would have to upgrade other parts anyway — so they could just as well install new/additional cabinets at that time…

@ antrik

“Where did you get “two stalls per cabinet”?…”

As far as I know, I have understood that 2 stalls share the same cabinet. They are labeled as 1A + 1B, and 2A + 2B, and 3A + 3B, etc.

Sounds very obvious to me.

Perhaps there is something I don’t know about yet?

That’s the case with V2. There is no reason to assume it’s the same for V3. I’m not sure whether it’s been mentioned explicitly: but it seems pretty obvious that V3 will have four stalls per cabinet…

If you divide 1 MW cabinet by 250 kW, it should feed 4 stalls, but I don’t know how they’re hook up.

I’m so glad they are now charging money for supercharging. And I’m happy they raised the prices. This will get people to charge at home when possible to reduce strain on the superchargers and this provides money to upgrade the superchargers.

Show us a charge curve

Well, that’s impressive.

IONITY is already up and running with 350 kW on several locations.

And not a car that can use it.

There are more than a hundred thousand cars in the US alone that can charge at 250kW on the V3 superchargers. How many cars can charge at 350kW on the IONITY chargers or even at 200kW?

Why is no-one talking here about the fact the I-Pace won the European Car of the Year award three days ago?

Because they sold 186 units in the US last month.

And the US is the world?

Is there anything about the I-Pace that anyone should get excited about?

Better to have upgraded all to the CCS European standard as that is what the rest of the US public charger network is doing. All the EvGo’s units at Walmarts and other convenient locations. Tesla would be doubling the available fast DC chargers for Tesla owners at zero cost to Tesla and to the great convenience of Tesla owners.

It also future proofs Teslas in case Tesla has to abandon the SuperCharger network as it did the Tesla stores, both loss centers for Tesla.

Do Not Read Between The Lines
And repeat for the umpteenth time: – In Europe and Australia/NZ Teslas used a modified Type 2, so a change to a CCS port didn’t necessitate any kind of change to Tesla AC chargers – In Europe legislation was pushing DC towards the CCS Type 2, and was getting in the way of Tesla adding Superchargers in some countries. – In the USA AC charging, including destination chargers use the Tesla connector; a change to CCS Type 1 would also require a change of AC charging to J1772. – In the USA there is no legislation of a DC standard – In the USA Tesla is by far the largest seller of BEVs and the number 2 uses CHAdeMO, rather than CCS, so Tesla is in a strong competitive position and there is no significant pressure to go to CCS. – The two large US networks, ElectrifyAmerica and EVGo and/were both significantly funded by corporate settlements. There is no evidence that they are sustainable businesses. If Superchargers are a loss center for Tesla, how will the EVGo and ElectrifyAmerica networks fare with many fewer BEVs and no direct manufacturer support? – In China GB/T is the national standard, so CCS… Read more »

“And repeat for the umpteenth time: – In Europe and Australia/NZ Teslas used a modified Type 2, so a change to a CCS port didn’t necessitate any kind of change to Tesla AC chargers – In Europe legislation was pushing DC towards the CCS Type 2”

Glad it only took you upteen times to get that. Since Europe is going CCS, since VW is spending $2B building CCS charging stations in US, since EVgo and others have CCS in many retail outlets, since Tesla uses CCS in Europe it would be better if Tesla converted to CCS in US as it did in Europe. That would be much more valuable to Tesla owners in the US than super duper proprietary chargers.

Looks like Taycan just lost its biggest selling point…

(75 miles in 5 minutes is virtually identical to the 100 km in 4 minutes claimed by Porsche.)

show us a charge curve…, same for taycan

Go ask a Taycan owner to get you their charge data.

250 Kw what a fantastical reward!!

How does this do with my 2 year old Model S ?

Question: If the V3 maxes out at 525A then how is it achieving 250 kW on a Model 3? I thought nominal pack voltage was 350V meaning peak voltage is still under 400V. At 525A you’d need over 475V to reach 250 kW.

Good question. Maybe they under-powered some of the charging system using firmware until ready?

I don’t think it has been mentioned anywhere what current V3 maxes out at?…

(525 A has been thrown around as the current limit of the Model 3 battery, since someone found it in the firmware data — but that might very well change with the software update…)

So when it throttles at 120 kW on chargers able to supply more (in Europe, on CCS), that is clearly just Tesla having set an artificial limit in order to prevent owners from charging faster on Ionity’s network than Tesla’s. How disgraceful!

I am surprised by the alleged peak rate – I expected around 180 kW.

You missed the part where a software update is needed for the higher charge rates. Whoops. Sorry about breaking your beautiful conspiracy theory…

Fentestic!