First 2019 Hyundai Nexo Hydrogen Fuel Cell SUV Delivered In NorCal

FEB 10 2019 BY GARY LIEBER 147

A long-shot in the electric car race.

Hyundai began delivery of its second-generation fuel cell SUV, the 2019 Hyundai Nexo this week.  The first customer in Northern California to take delivery, obstetrician/gynecologist Dr. Steven Vo, is a long-time zero-emissions vehicle enthusiast.  Dr. Vo said, “This will be my third zero emissions vehicle; I cut my teeth with a Fiat 500 BEV, then moved to a Toyota Mirai (fuel cell). The Nexo will replace my Mirai.”

***Our thanks for Gary Lieber of Clean Fleet Reports for allowing us to share this story with our readers. Check out Clean Fleet Report here.

The Nexo is Hyundai’s newest Hydrogen Fuel Cell Electric Vehicle (FCEV); it replaces the Tucson FCEV that was available in very limited numbers during the past five years.

A Rare and Exclusive Vehicle

The Nexo is somewhat of a bespoke unicorn of a vehicle as it is only available in the United States, Korea and the UK. In the U.S.,  it’s only available in California because of the planned 100 hydrogen refueling stations state-wide (39 are open so far), the most significant number of stations in the US.

2019 Hyundai Nexo FCEV

Quick fill-ups are the big plus for fuel cell cars

The Nexo is Hyundai’s technology flagship and joins their other battery electric and plug-in hybrid electric vehicles in Hyundai’s growing zero-emissions product portfolio.

The Nexo is perfectly clean, emitting only water from its tailpipe.  The fuel cell converts its hydrogen fuel to electricity and as a byproduct emits just water. With a range of more than 380 miles on a tank of hydrogen, the Nexo can go further on a tank than even the longest-range battery electric vehicles on the road today and is on par with the average range of conventional ICE vehicles. Refueling in as little as five minutes, the Nexo also beats the fastest recharging times that BEVs can achieve today and has refueling parity with ICE vehicles, too.

The Most Advanced FCEV SUV Available Today

Built on a unique platform, the Nexo SUV has a second-generation fuel cell system and power train.  It boasts a 95-kilowatt (kW) fuel cell stack paired with a 1.56-kilowatt-hour battery mated to a single 120-kW motor that delivers 291 pounds-feet of torque driving the front wheels. Its weight is comparable to larger BEVs, coming in at about 4000 pounds.  Because of the newer compact storage tanks, it boasts 29.6 cubic feet of rear cargo capacity and seats 5 in comfort.

2019 Hyundai Nexo FCEV

The Nexo interior is as fresh as its powertrain

The Nexo has a very cutting-edge, tech-oriented interior that has some of the most advanced driver technology available. It has a full suite of advanced driver-assist systems, including forward collision avoidance assist, lane following assist, driver attention warning and high beam assist. It also offers Remote Smart Parking Assist, which enables Nexo to either autonomously park or retrieve itself from either a parallel or perpendicular parking space with or without a driver in the vehicle. Additionally, Hyundai’s Blind-Spot View Monitor is an industry-first technology that projects the side views of Nexo in the center cluster using cameras, while changing lanes with the turn signal on. It monitors area that cannot be seen by a traditional rearview mirror. The Nexo is manufactured with materials that are very eco-friendly, including soybean-oil based polyurethane paint, bamboo-thread-based bio fabric, along with bio-plastic and bio-carpet extracted from sugar cane. Bio-based materials were applied to 47 different parts and reduced COemissions by 26 pounds during the manufacturing process.

Buy or Lease

The Nexo comes in two versions, with pricing starting at $58,300 or leasing for as little as $399 plus tax for 36 months. The Nexo qualifies for the $7,500 federal tax credit, and a $5,000 California rebate.  Included in the purchase or lease are hydrogen fuel fill-ups free of charge for the first three years.

The Nexo isn’t going to take the EV market by storm; it’s more of an acquired taste. For the Nexo to achieve significant market penetration even in EV-crazy California, there will need to be billions more invested in refueling infrastructure.  It’s a chicken-and-egg problem, but with manufacturers like Hyundai pushing the envelope and California committing tens of millions of dollars to station construction and maintenance, there is always a chance.

 

Clean Fleet Report is preparing for an extended NEXO road test, and we can hardly wait to tell you about our impressions, stay tuned!

Source: Clean Fleet Report

Categories: Hyundai

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147 Comments on "First 2019 Hyundai Nexo Hydrogen Fuel Cell SUV Delivered In NorCal"

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1. What is Toyota going to do with the Mirai, assuming it’s a lease return?
2. Did he lease or buy the Hyundai?
3. How many of these hydrogen vehicles are actually bought.

The good Dr probably ran through the free H2 that came with his Mirai and, wisely, unloaded it because one can’t afford to drive on H2 when you have to pay for it.

As I understand it, you can only lease the Mirai.

I thought I had seen one person on the InsideEVs Forum claim he has bought his Honda Clarity FCEV, but Honda’s website mentions only leasing for the car.

So it looks like the relevant question is: Can mere mortals actually buy a FCEV, or are they all lease only?

You can also buy it, but no one buys these, people just run through the “free” fuel and purge the vehicle, which then gets scrapped.

Gee, that sounds pretty green..

Is FUD green? It’s more like brown BS saying that nobody buys a Mirai and that they’re scrapped after the lease runs out. Xcel is making it up, and Pu-Pu knows full well that you can buy a Mirai and is lieing to spread FUD.

The 2016 model was a lease only. You can now buy a new Mirai, but who in their right mind would buy a new one?

I now see you can buy a used Mirai in California. It looks like they have lost at least half of their value over two to three years. They seem to be all lease returns, which makes sense for the 2016 model. It will be interesting to see how the used car price holds up over the next 12 months.

It’s recyclable

These lease deals are incredibly attractive, half the price of an equivalent gasser and free fuel. 2016 off lease Mirai are on the market for $16k to $27k and can be financed 5 yr about $350/mth, but then you have to pay another $200-$300/mth for fuel. Makes buying a 3 year old Mirai much worse than leasing new.

You do realize that Mirai 4 seater is actually worse than a Corolla. You can lease a Corolla for about $130.

You do realize that the Mirai has a Lexus leve/quality leather interior with all the bells and whistles, don’t you?

But none of the acceleration, range, performance, passenger space or cargo space. Oh and you can’t take any trips out of the San DIego, LA, San Fran corridor. Not trips to Vegas for you!

But you can go round and round your hydrogen station, it emits an alarm if you stray outside the safety zone.
Do they have Hydrogen refilling trucks if you run out?

There’s a h station out there

No there isn’t.

There’s one near Reno but not Las Vegas. I’ve double checked on numerous sites including the US Department of Transportation’s comprehensive Alternative Fuels Data Center which under Nevada Transportation Data for Alternative Fuels and Vehicles shows 0 public hydrogen fueling stations. The only info I have found shows 2 private government hydrogen stations from a website with information from 2015.

Probably a base but why do that when H2 car was premium

What’s interesting is the number on low mileage lease returns. I would have thought more folks would have used up the fuel that was included in the lease.

The numbers are so small that they don’t have any statistical significance.
Who is paying for the Hydrogen refueling stations? What a total waste of money and resources.

So 1 GGE of H2 is 1kg . . . and if my math is right produces 17kg of H2O when catalyzed, or 4+ gallons.

Pretty good fuel for dry camping I guess… run the fuel cell to power the space heater overnight, get free hot water for washing up in the morning…

…and 5kg of CO2 emitted making each kg of H2 from CH4 (methane).

So is water. Doesn’t mean you can’t drown in it.

Pssst… you need some iron to survive, it is good for you and a key to your life. Let’s drop a ton of iron on top of you…

Phuck you, guy.

And there we have the entire argument of climate change religion. Instead of talking about facts, it’s seen as personal attack on religion.

But since scott couldn’t make the argument, I’ll do it for him. CO2 is necessary for life, but not at the rate of increase that’s been since the industrial revolution (over doubled now). Imagine an extreme case, if CO2 quadrupled overnight, there could be bad things happening. We are doubling roughly about 100 years, unprecedented in history. Humans may adapt in that time, but other beings will have tough time.

I don’t bother arguing with Russian trolls. Russia’s already anemic kleoptostate economy is entirely dependent upon selling gas and oil. With mass adoption of battery electric vehicles Russia’s economy will completely collapse. Pushing hydrogen fuel cell vehicles powered by stripped natural gas is crucial to allow Russia, and other petro-states, to continue to delay the inevitable.

Until we dug it all up, burned it and started turning ourselves into Venus over about 150 years.

Once you process and burn the Tar Sands in Canada, your 150 year Venus atmosphere projection, might be a bit on the optimistic side.

Balancing Ocean Acidification will be the hinge pin to sustaining life for many sensitive invertebrates, and CO2 spewing biped mammals alike!

On average about 45% of the hydrogen sold as fuel for HFCVs in California is made from renewable sources, and 12 of the 39 hydrogen stations dispense nothing but 100% renewable fuel.

That’s why it’s $16 a kg or more for renewable H2. Luckily the car companies are subsidizing this entire cost to their low volume of customers as a marketing loss. I’m sure that plan will scale up great.

Who is paying for installing the fuel stations? I thought the state of California was picking up the tab for that.

I meant the car companies are subsidizing the entire cost of the fuel itself but not the fueling stations.

It would be nice if people talking about H2 production actually knew what they were talking about. Check the hydrogen station map for California. You’ll see that 33%. and up to 100% of the hydrogen produced is from renewable sources.

Anastasia from Estonia

1 Kg H2 = ~2 Gallons Gasoline. Fuel cells are around twice as efficient. And Korea has prioritized the tech, planning for a “hydrogen society”, along with Japan. America could have led the field but Obama and Chu favored lithium-ion batteries.

The Fuel cell vehicles are alive because the Californian taxpayer is footing the bill big time. They cut the subsidies for fuel cell vehicles and hydrogen filling stations and the tech goes belly up, the very same day.

Back to Estonia, with that cold weather, fuel cells will suffer big time due to icing conditions in the stack, basically massive drop of power, forget any efficiency whatsoever. Do you have a rough idea how the hydrogen fuel cell starts up in cold weather, how long is the booting process, any idea about the power lag? All of these are blatant disgrase. Now, go see the Teslas in the freaking cold Norway… no fuel cell cars there apart from 5 demo units shipped.

More BS and FUD from Xcel. Fuel cells stacks don’t ice up and lose efficiency in cold weather. Toyota Mirais are operating with no problems in frigid Quebec City and Montreal.

Plug in H cars for that region

Don’t pay attention to this person who is ignorant of HFCVs. Hyundai specs day Nexo fuel cell is good to -20F. Consumer Reports tested one, and said it was less affected by cold weather than BEV.

Good decision. 1Kg H2 costs about $16 at the pump right now if you have to pay for it. So that’s equivalent to $8/gallon gasoline. And the car costs almost $60000.

A Toyota Mirai is almost identical inside and out to a Toyota Prius Prime, which, even without tax incentives costs 1/2 as much. And if you run it off of electricity (short commutes), costs about $1.30 per 50 miles, or on gasoline alone costs $3.00 per 50 miles (California costs). A Mirai, if you are paying for the H2, costs about $16 per 50 miles. (I assume Hyudai costs are similar).

$1.30 or $3.00 vs $16 per 50 miles and the otherwise identical car costs twice as much to buy.

Not even getting into the extra pollution, and the lack of charging stations except in a few places in California (which means you can’t drive the car anywhere else) that is a really terrible deal.

The Mirai has a Lexus level of quality/comfort leather interior, while you can’t get a leather for the Prius.

Too bad it has Corolla performance with less seats and is over twice the price of a Prius.

See your own Auto Upholstery Shop! Get whatever you want! (To Pay For!)

“1 Kg H2 = ~2 Gallons Gasoline”

Where do you pay $6 for 1kg of H2? It’s $16 around here, equal to 5 gallons of gas.

Mirai gets 300 miles per 5 kg ($80). Prius 60 MPG uses 5 gallons for 300 miles ($15). How do you figure something that costs 5.3 times more is twice as efficient?

Thankfully!

Better off just burning methane rather than using methane and electricity to produce electricity and water.

Putin is proud. Ten rubles for you.

Interesting then that the EPA rates the Mirai at 66 MPGe and a similar car in size and performance like the hybrid Prius at 58 MPG. I’m not mathematician but I wouldn’t call that twice as efficient. Especially when you calculate well-to-wheels it won’t look as rosy as this even for the HFCV.

The Prius Prime is rated at 133 MPGe.

I was comparing it to the plain gas hybrid Prius. The point being a HFCV isn’t really more efficient than a gas car much less than twice as efficient as Anastasia from Estonia was claiming.

Does it have CCS DC charging too? That would be very nice, making it a real category-killer.

Benz have that . Plug In F Class I believe

Not very attractive, the tiny battery doesn’t allow for fast charging as miles added per minute of charging. That car is a leftover from the past, so they decided to deliver few units, and then stop the production. There is no demand for these, and especially not when Benz is introducing more battery dominated plug-in gasoline hybrids as we type.

It’s good in Northern regions where the stacks freeze up

Yeah, with so much water, the door is wide open for massive ice formation within the fuel cell stack, that is severe power drop, in the water collector and when this tiny water collector is filled up they simply dump the water on the street, so you get more ice on the surface meant to be de-iced in the first place. Several regulators are now looking into that, it will not end up well.

You’re just making stuff up to spread BS and FUD. Post some links to back up your claims. You can’t because you made it all up. The Mirai is now sold in frigid Quebec City and Montreal, and it’s not experiencing the any if your made-up problems.

You’re just making stuff up to spread BS and FUD. Post some links to back up your claims. You can’t because you made it all up. The Mirai is now sold in frigid Quebec City and Montreal, and it’s not experiencing the any if your made-up problems.

It would be a bit pointless, I would have thought – 1.56 kilowatt-hours of fully charged battery would be depleted by the time you’d backed out of your drive!

A well designed technical exercise. Should do very well in Japan if Hyundai makes a bunch and keeps paying for the fuel.

I’m pretty certain that the Japanese and Koreans don’t sell cars to each other. When I lived in Seoul there were big banners that said “No Japanese cars in Korea!”

Uneconomical, dirty produced fuel, waste of a good platform.

On average about 45% of the hydrogen sold as fuel for HFCVs in California is made from renewable sources, and 12 of the 39 hydrogen stations dispense nothing but 100% renewable fuel.

At $16 or more per kg. That isn’t a viable business plan when they get to the point of not being able to keep giving very expensive free fuel away to customers. And when new fuel stations and their constant expensive maintenance are no longer covered by very generous state subsidies in CA.

Also do you know which of the 11 out of 21 fueling stations in the LA area that are currently showing offline or operating under limited status are the ones that are from renewable sources? If I owned a HFCV I would be more concerned about having a very limited number of places to fuel up with half of the stations closed or barely working. It’s even more concerning that all of these public stations are all pretty much brand new.

Created with the. same Dirty Electricity that charges BEV’s, no doubt!
/S

Uneconomical? For the consumer?

Don’t listen to this uninformed person who never bothered running the numbers. The leases on all of the FCEVs are bargains.

To Hyundai’s credit, people need to use it to prove how expensive and inconvenient it is compared to BEV.

He went from 1 fcev to another. Hyundai/Toyota not doing a very good job in that regard.

He changed the cars simply because he run out of free fuel. I wouldn’t get it even with free fuel, it is worthless, but then some people are that cheap.

The cost of the fuel card is built into the price of the Nexo, just like what Tesla did when they offered free Supercharging.

They aren’t remotely comparable. Tesla wasn’t losing that much money on giving maybe $100 a year away in free fuel on a premium $100K car since most customers keep it charged up in their garage for very little money anyway. It’s so cheap that for many it would be a hassle to seek out and fill up in an urban area or off an interstate rather than just fill in their garage. With the Nexo your only option is to fuel at a station and every single customer will use the free fuel. And the free fuel is expensive enough that it will cost around 2/3 of what the monthly lease payment is which is already subsidized by the car company at a loss. 13,000 miles a year at 61 miles/kg and $16 kg = $3,400 a year or $284 a month in fuel alone that the car companies are paying for! Then leased for $399 a month for 36 months on a $60,000 msrp which in and of itself is losing some amount for Hyundai. Yeah they are losing tons of money on each vehicle. The fuel card isn’t built into the price of anything just like the lease… Read more »

I don’t need to drive a fool cell car to know that the price in California for the fuel is above $16/kg, to know that the price has actually risen a bit in the three years that the (Big Oil sponsored) California Fuel Cell Partnership has been building H2 fueling stations, and to know that there have been widespread shortages with the fuel.

I don’t need to eat arsenic to know it’s bad for me, either. That’s the great thing about writing and language; they allow us to benefit from the experience of others without having to go thru the process ourselves.

As usual, you don’t know what you’re talking about Pu-Pu. Hydrogen prices have fallen at many California hydrogen stations. In fact there are a bunch of stations selling hydrogen for $9.99/kg.

http://hydrogenrates.com/

Edmunds did a Long Term Road Test of the Mirai and has this to say about the price of hydrogen:

“We found hydrogen prices vary considerably from station to station and paid anywhere from $9.54 to $16.63 per kg during our test.”

5 of the stations listed have $9.99/kg prices, all in the LA area.
1 is $11.60/kg
2 are in the $13-14/kg price range.
15 are in the $16 range.

5/23 is “a bunch”???

When I go to the California fuel cell partnership station map
https://cafcp.org/stationmap
and click on the Campbell icon, a note says low on fuel as of Feb 10, 2019.
When I click on the Mountain View icon, it says “Update on Jan 31: Linde is repairing the dispenser and it will be available for fueling within 3 weeks.”
I click on the Palo Alto icon, and see:
“Station will remain offline until tomorrow morning due to dispenser communication issue; please check SOSS for further updates. ”
Fremont says:
“2-10-19 Site station is low on fuel. A trailer is scheduled for Approximately 12:30am 2-11-19…..We apologize for the inconvenience. Please check this site before traveling to station.”
San Jose says:
“Update 2-10-19 Site is currently low on fuel. We are expecting a delivery at Approximately 7am tomorrow morning 2-11-19… Please verify on M.CAFCP.ORG that the station is back online prior to making a visit to this station. Sorry for the inconvenience. ”

Yes, there are a couple of stations in the SF bay area that are online, but wow,
is this sobering about hydrogen.

And this is with a very tiny low volume fleet they are needing to service. It will be a disaster of epic proportions if they ever get where there are even 100,000 HFCVs on the roads. A gas pump mechanically is very simple and reliable and charging stations are as well. 10,000 psi stations that pump the smallest molecule in the universe, not so much.

He is a shill for Big Oil and a serial anti-Tesla/EV troll here.
His H2 propaganda will always distort the reality but luckily the market has already spoken as the InsideEVs scorecard proves.

Imagine, your house grid connection, and you getting a similar message:

“Transformers on Main Street are Offline for Servicing, until Feb 14, 2019. We apologize for the inconvenience! Poles are down on 3rd Avenue but won’t be replaced until Feb. 24th, due to Pole Shortages. We are endeavoring to find additional supplies of Power Poles!” Or similar messages! Not, after a Storm, just, regularly!

That certainly isn’t the renewable energy H2. Also I looked at the current status of the public stations in LA and 11 of the 21 in that area are offline or limited status. And these are all brand new.

There are 5 stations at that price. 2 are operational and 1 is offline with the other 2 being limited one of which shows capacity at 1.0. It doesn’t matter what the price is if they are always broken or out of fuel.

I wonder how many more years auto makers will continue to throw money down the rathole of production fool cell cars. Well, at least Mirai sales were down last year over the previous year. That’s a hopeful sign that we may see the end of this madness within a few years.

Fool cell cars should never have “graduated” past the science experiment stage. It’s an experiment which has gone long past any hope of learning anything more of value from it.

Most(95%+) Hydrogen is made from reforming natural gas. If you make Hydrogen from electricity you lose 2/3 of your energy by the time you make it back into electricity to move the vehicle. It’s thermodynamics, not chicken and egg. Fuel cell vehicles will never make general purpose sense.

California requires that a certain percent of the hydrogen be produced from renewable sources. I forget the number but it’s greater than 5.

California has a 33% renewable requirement for hydrogen dispensed to fuel HFCVs.

So, that H2 Gas, is created using Electrolysis, Right? But, where does it get the Electricity from? The same “Dirty Grid” that charges up EV’s? Or, from Local Wind, Solar, and Hydro Power?

By law, a minimum of 33% of the hydrogen for fueling stations in California comes from renewable sources, such as solar, wind, hydro, geothermal. BEVs are typically charged at night when rates are low, but renewables only account for about 10% of the electricity produced.

High temperature electrolysis can be more than 100% electricly efficient (like a heat pump) as it can be endothermic and draw heat energy from around it. Think if you have high geothermal temperatures or a designed nuclear reactor.

Nice Fool Cell Mobile 😝

The bulky and stupid fuel cell doesn’t deliver any power with or without a laughable lag, the guy will be completely unable to join a highway safely. The bulky and heavy high pressure tanks are further compromising the vehicle.

Did you even read the stats? It has a 40kWh battery acting as a buffer. This is essentially a PHEV hybrid with the hydrogen fuel cell to charge the battery. Idk if you can separately plug in though.

I don’t necessarily think hydrogen fuel cells will succeed long term, but the problems you claim won’t exist here.

Do Not Read Between The Lines

No, it’s an error in the article. The hybrid system can produce up to 40kW of power. The battery is 1.56kWh.

Are you incapable to make a difference between power measured in kW and energy in kWh? The fuel cell can’t cope and once the tiny battery is depleted like climbing a mile of slope, the entire vehicle is rendered useless.

Do Not Read Between The Lines

The article said 40kWh, but has been fixed.

The Hyundai Nexo tech spec say that the power output of the battery is 40kW, the fuel cell output is 95kW, and total output is 135kW
https://www.hyundai.news/eu/press-kits/all-new-hyundai-nexo-technical-specifications/

Xcel said:
“The fuel cell can’t cope and once the tiny battery is depleted like climbing a mile of slope, the entire vehicle is rendered useless.”

I call BS. Not a single reviewer who road tested the Nexo, and there have been many road tests, complained about the power and hill climbing ability of the Nexo. And yes, reviewers have driven them to the mountains.

After a mile or less the 1.56 kWh battery will be depleted and you will be left with 126 hp dragging the over 4,000 lb. curb weight up a mountain. With a few passengers you are looking at 4,300 lbs. It will be exhilarating as you hunker down in the right lane while normal traffic whizzes by.

And you get all that for just $60,000.

You can’t look just a horsepower to determine how a vehicle will perform driving uphill or towing. You have to also look at torque, which the Nexo has in spades with 291lbs-ft. Torque is more important than horsepower when driving up mountains and when towing.

It’s similar to how a low horsepower high torque Diesel engine in a VW TDI, is pulls much better driving up mountains than a high horsepower lower torque gasoline engine in a VW GTI. The same goes for pickup trucks that tow heavy loads up mountain passes, where the high torque Diesel engine outperforms its lower torque gasoline counterpart.

From auto.howstuffworks.com:
“Most drivers know that torqu­e translates into low-end power, or the ability to accelerate the vehicle at low rpm levels. Torque moves the vehicle from a stop and helps it get up steep hills. As such, more torque is required to start a heavier vehicle than a lighter one. That’s why torque is useful when towing — torque is what allows you to pull heavy loads.”

https://auto.howstuffworks.com/auto-parts/towing/towing-capacity/information/horsepower-versus-torque2.htm

Of course hp is important. According to your logic you could have a car with 10 hp that weighs 4,000 lbs. but as long as you have 300 lb-ft of torque you will just fly up that mountain!

BS is to end up with max 95kW power output uphill in such a bulky and heavy vehicle. Note that 95kW is the maximum power output, which is never sustained, there are pumps to be driven, and so on. This is a complete disgrase, and it is dangerous.

Fuel cell vehicles are super complicated Rube Goldberg machines.

Questions and answers to the Hyundai Nexo.

In the UK we are setting up 48 hydrogen fill points shortly looking forward to the fcevs vehicle manufacturers setting up shop soon

I think you are lagging behind Norway quite a lot, they have started closing their hydrogen filling stations due to lack of interest, see the HYOP “network”, while BEV is taking over the market.

Yet in January 2019 Uno-X ordered another two hydrogen stations for Norway to expand their existing hydrogen fueling station network.

https://www.gasworld.com/nel-asa-receives-purchase-order-for-fuelling-stations-in-norway/2016190.article

Too bad your government is wasting tax money on fool cell infrastructure. Will be obsolete in another 5 years and all these stations will go unused.

Les Osborn – “In the UK we are setting up 48 hydrogen fill points shortly……..”
————-
Do you have aa link for that?

I embrace zero emmision success, but the vehicle price must come down $30,000.

The chief engineer for the Toyota Mirai believes that Toyota can get the cost of building a HFCV down to the cost of building a Corolla.

http://www.thedrive.com/tech/26050/exclusive-toyota-hydrogen-boss-explains-how-fuel-cells-can-achieve-corolla-costs

Did he say that while the CEO loomed behind him in the interview?

I understand that a car like this can be like a toy, like a cool exotic thing.
But most can’t afford a toy this expensive.
Prices of hydrogen are very high, higher than gasoline in Europe ( assuming equivalent energy).
It’s way more expensive than a “normal” fuel car.

EVs and other alternative fuel cars must be more convenient, basically better and cheaper. Without that they are condemned to be a niche.
It seems clear that BEVs will soon be good for the vast majority, not so sure about this hydrogen tech.

I couldn’t see how big the H2 tank is. 380mi from what amount of H2?
Hey InsideEVs, it’s been awhile with H2 now, and supposedly there are 39 H2 stations in Cal, so I’m wondering if you could apply your journalistic skills and get us an updated article on how the H2 stations are operating. For instance a few years ago it was reported that a station cost about $2mil and could produce about 200kg of H2 per day (good luck doing back to back 5min H2 refills based on that). So I’m wondering what the situation is today, has the H2 infrastructure improved much in that time?

“ a few years ago it was reported that a station cost about $2mil and could produce about 200kg of H2 per day ”

NREL produces annual reports about CA FCEVs and has a report on stations. I believe when we started H stations cost 2.6 million per but costs were down to ~1.6 million. These prices might be inflated because taxpayer dollars are financing them.

Only one of the 39 stations produces H on site. One is supplied via pipeline. I believe there are three that receive liquid H and all others receive pressurized H.

One other tidbit from their report was that the cost of dispensing H was 2-3 $ per kg. That is not the retail or wholesale cost.

Ahhhh Gasbag, None of the Stations are likely to produce “Any” – H – on site, since “H” is a Hydrogen Atom! However, it is possible they produce H2, which are Hydrogen Molecules, containing TWO Hydrogen Atoms, bonded together!

Plus, HFC Vehicles use H2, not H, in their operation.

Sorry for the correction! I learned that difference about H vs H2, in the early ’70’s, in early days of High School! I thought everyone did, too! Was I wrong?

” The Nexo qualifies for the $7,500 federal tax credit..”
I think this is wrong. The Fuel cell cars don’t get FTC credit after 2016. Then, it was given AFTER 2017 finished to 2017 buyers 🙁 So, onyl Toyota and Honda got them, since no one woudl’ve bought it without the $7500 credit in place.
Unless this $7500 has been reinstated, this is most likely an error in the article.

But 380 miles of range is wonderful for an SUV. Also, I think this time it is priced right. Teh first gen Tucson Fuel cell at $499 was too expensive for what ti was. Also depends on annual mileage allowance and the amount of hydrogen that is included in the lease.
If they are appealing compared to Clarity FCEV, I might consider it in 2 years. 🙂
Cheers. Now top two if the ZEV range champs are solidly in the hydrogen camp. 🙂

Love or hate it, the good doctor couldn’t care less about a charging curve because he ain’t got one. Anyway, it is interesting to note that H2 is developing in stealth mode. In Germany they are building new H2 stations, 400 by 2025 and then some. Where I live 11 new H2 stations will be built soon. Once the infrastucture becomes useable, my guess is that car makers will offer more FCEVs as well. Whether this is a good or a bad thing is another question.

Actually, this is not true, the compressors are failing quite offen to deliver the needed pressure, so the filling process might take a lot of time, worse, sometimes people just leave half full due to ‘unable to build pressure’ issues. The Doc just gets fuel for free, because someone else is footing the bill, so we can’t blame the Doc for filling for free while the taxpayer is footing the bill.

Have you seen how many high power operators are building charging stations now in Europe. It is not just in Germany, and it is not just IONITY. My favorite is FastNed.

That’s more BS and FUD from Xcel. Edmunds and Car& Driver both did 6-month long term reviews of the Mirai and Clarity and didn’t report the fueling problems that you describe.

https://www.edmunds.com/toyota/mirai/2016/long-term-road-test/

Wow, they must have been really lucky that they didn’t get one of the dozen or so stations that was offline. Or they just looked up on the station map and drove out of their way to miss the ones that they knew were offline ahead of time. Very convenient fueling.

And in the LA area half are offline or limited, so there’s that too.

I wonder why people feel the need to spread false information. All one has to do is go to the Hydrogen Station map to see that it’s not true.

https://cafcp.org/stationmap

First OC Nexo owner here 🙋🏼‍♀️ Van Nuys got theirs 5 days before Tustin but I actually signed my paperwork before everyone else – since I did the Hyundai Finance pull ahead lease program. They are only releasing up to 5 each month at the 3 California dealerships. From what I was told, there are a total of 2,000 of these vehicles with 1/2 of those being here in California and the rest elsewhere but I never got that info confirmed. They gave us a Nexo fuel card that is loaded with $13,000 so it only makes sense to lease this vehicle. I don’t know why anyone would ever buy it – it would cost way too much to fuel up out of pocket. I have currently utilized 4 charging stations that are near me and though there are issues, they get resolved rather quickly. I have the Limited version which our range is 350 (the blue basic gets 380) however, with my driving habits on Eco mode, I’ve managed to pull off almost 390 so I’m definitely happy with that! The car is bad a$$ and a really nice drive. I am getting my $5000 rebate from the state.… Read more »

Good man. If the regulations allow for you to exploit the taxpayer bucks, go for it now, because at some point the taxpayer will revolt and stop paying for your “free” hydrogen fuel and subsidizing your hydrogen filling stations.

Xcel,

Have you returned all the exploited taxpayer bucks that subsidized your EV and EV charging stations? I doubt it.

Also, I’m pretty sure Amy is a woman.

@NEXOAmy, Congratulations! How much are you paying per month for the limited?
Please join us in the forum of this site; may be create a thread under Hyundai on Nexo Fuel cell so we can learn from your Nexo experience!
I created one on ‘Clarity Fuel Cell’ under Honda. It has been very useful to dispel FUD and give real information about hydrogen cars (Clarity FCEV in this case).
https://www.insideevsforum.com/community/index.php?threads/clarity-fuel-cell.1156/

if you are getting 390 miles now, you should expect even longer, > 400 mile, range in summer when temperatures are higher.

Thanks for the write up NEXOAmy!

This says it all: “They gave us a Nexo fuel card that is loaded with $13,000 so it only makes sense to lease this vehicle. I don’t know why anyone would ever buy it – it would cost way too much to fuel up out of pocket.”

It’s safe to say the fuel card is built into the price of the car, which is why it’s a $60k vehicle. I have no problem with that.
My husband is a pure EV man and I’m currently a FCEV gal. The state incentives are attractive and are the reason most people go towards these types of vehicles, like it or not. At this day and age, it doesn’t make economic sense to own an FCEV but over time, things may change. I am an early adopter to this vehicle, and in 3 years, I will turn it in and make my next move based on how things are in the future. To each their own. I am happy with my lease. It’s a beautiful, low profile car that gets an incredible range.

NEXOAmy – quote: “I’m currently a FCEV gal. The state incentives are attractive and are the reason most people go towards these types of vehicles, like it or not.” ————– From your own personal perspective, what you say makes perfect sense. If it works cheaply for you – why not? But in a way, you’ve really nailed why hydrogen cars are unlikely to ever reach mainstream – subsidies are one thing when they only apply to a small number, quite another if such were ever to be relied on for large numbers of vehicles. Then they become unsustainable. Subsidies may be worthwhile to kickstart industries – solve the vicious circle of not being profitable because economies of scale are too low, but not reach economies of scale because prices are too high. But the problem with hydrogen is ……. hydrogen. It’s already produced in large quantities for industrial processes – it already has big economies of scale. It’s not realistic to think it will ever get much cheaper. And that’s from fossil fuels, so doing little to reduce CO2 emissions. Via hydrolysis is currently more expensive still, and whilst that may have some scope to reduce, it’s far more efficient… Read more »

Thank you for the report. I didn’t realize they were producing so few. I put my name on the list at the dealer. I ran the numbers, and it is hard to beat the lease, even with a less well equipped gasoline car. The Nexo Limited is loaded with tech.

Since there are no Nexos at the dealer, if you get a chance I would very much appreciate it if you could you measure the height of the floor to the top of the hatch opening? I wanted to see how tall a box I could fit in the cargo area.

Congrats!

I believe fuel cells are the future of electric vehicles. They take less time to refuel and don’t require the replacement of a full stack of li-batteries every 4 to 5 years. Lithium ion batteries don’t last forever.

The high power charging BEV will get more miles for the same time as compated to a high pressure filling FCEV. The most reliable component in FCEV is actually the lith-ion battery, the fuel cell stack craps out, the high pressure hydrogen tanks are not very durable, low longevity, add to that all these safety valves, ducts, sensors – the mess is so desperate, it is now more like a comedy.

@ Xcel – EVen “more like a comedy” of FCEV errors!
———-

@ C. Monkey – My current 6 year old EV battery is already a year or two overdue, and ready for replacement. ROTFLMAO!

Best Lithium battery Troll of the day Award!

I’ll look for your category tonight at the Grammy Awards!

You obviously have not done the math. So you are going to charge the battery at 1 MW for five minutes? How big of a charging cable is that going to take? 0000000 gauge? This is the Achilles heal for BEVs. They can’t overcome the amount of power that is going to be required to match a gasoline or fuel cell car for refilling. It doesn’t matter what kind of battery is used. Right now there is a 13% loss in charging efficiency. Can you imaging trying to collect and dissipate 130KW of heat?

What, like this recall of the Clarity FCV for “fuel cell stack deterioration”?

https://tiremeetsroad.com/2019/01/17/up-to-1000-honda-clarity-fuel-cell-vehicles-recalled-for-fuel-cell-stack-degradation/

The fuel cell stack isn’t that different than a catalytic converter or even a battery. It performs a chemical reaction and has a finite life.

Look, a gaggle of anti-EV trolls have arrived in Not Impartial-Observed to hate Tesla, Tesla Shorters Investor and now a monkey on crack!

Keep driving your fool cells until the heavily subsidized H2 included-allotment of H2 runs out, then just lease another impractical H2 car destined for the crusher after your lease runs out.

Personally, My family and I will keep driving our 3 BEVs on sunshine from my PV.

Good Lord, how is fuel cell still even in the discussion???

These taxpayers money need to be spent, no? The hydrogen fuel cell vehicles and filling stations are pretty good black holes soaking taxpayer money.

Hyundai should put two 100 Kw motors and a 75 Kwh battery in it

“The Nexo is somewhat of a bespoke unicorn of a vehicle as it is only available in the United States, Korea and the UK.”

Faulty statement, ofcourse you can also buy the car in Norway.

https://www.hyundai.no/modeller/nexo/

What’s a Norway? Is that like a Walmart?

Brave person to spend that amount of cash on an orphan car with uncertain fuel supplies.

Hydrogen requires too many electrical and chemical conversion theatrics to be a viable solution for personal transport. In ships it could have a great future displacing nasty marine fuel oil.

Wow! 0-60 in 9.5 seconds. 4,000 lb. curb weight and 126 hp for those long uphill grades. $8 per gallon of gas equivalent to fuel up. A whole 20 or so actual functioning fueling stations in all of CA with almost none across the rest of the country. And all this for only $60,000! Where do I sign?

Hate the interior. They should have went with Konas interior. Where’s these H stations? No government- and private fundings

Just for information:
Some tested are old and some are latest:
Tank Safety: Hydrogen Tank Gunshot | Toyota
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jVeagFmmwA0
Hydrogen SAFETY summarized
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5aoFq_3Yoig&index=2&list=PL6qqtuouh5-_I9DFWOg14TfQdASoDevab&t=0s
Hyundai Tucson Hydrogen FCV Prototype FMVSS 301 NHTSA Rear Impact (30 Mph)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dV_0AiQblAg
Tank Safety: Rear Offset Collision | Toyota
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FgLTUbWyEa0
Toyota Hydrogen Electric Fuel Cell Vehicle Hot Weather Test +120 F
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VuAqHRKMiSg
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1LTlF8ndygU&t=149s
Toyota Hydrogen Electric Fuel Cell Vehicle Cold Weather Test -20 Centigrade
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3YOUgMFHp5g
some are old out of date tested:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IknzEAs34r0
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7bFJK5kU_UQ&list=PL6qqtuouh5-_I9DFWOg14TfQdASoDevab&index=4
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RNzjksIImb8&index=5&list=PL6qqtuouh5-_I9DFWOg14TfQdASoDevab

I feel any potential dangers from hydrogen in vehicles from catastrophic failures such as an exploding tank are far less likely a problem, than a relatively slow leakage, a buildup, and a possible eventual explosion. My experience has been with a leased LPG car. We were assured that in the event of any failure in the piping etc, it had an “excess flow preventer” – it would detect an unusually quick flow and shut the system off. Unfortunately, my vehicle suffered a hairline crack in the gas feed, and leakage – fortunately on holiday at a period when the car was always in the open. (Because relatively slow, and the metering is imprecise it was difficult to realise at the time.) The system was unable to distinguish between the leak and normal usage rates. Eventually, the pipe failed totally, the flow preventer cut in, and the car stalled at high speed in the fast lane of the motorway…….. Not fun, though fortunately no accident. What I realise is that if the car had been at home, it would have been in the garage, the leaking LPG WOULD have had chance to build up, and an explosion very likely. It’s for… Read more »

Fuel Cell cars like the Nexo are NOT eligible for the federal tax credit!!!

Hyundai Nexo, fuel consumption
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8CFSuT7T52A