Financial Times Investigates Tesla Model 3 Production Issues

Tesla Model 3 Production

NOV 8 2017 BY STEVEN LOVEDAY 155

Tesla Model 3

Tesla Model 3 Dash Install

The Financial Times attempted to get to the bottom of Tesla Model 3 production bottlenecks and discovered a few concerns we hadn’t been apprised of.

So, at this point, most of us are aware that Tesla is having issues manufacturing the Model 3 in volume. Initially, CEO Elon Musk was vague to say that the automaker faced “production bottlenecks”. The Wall Street Journal then accused the company of having an unfinished assembly line and building cars by hand. Musk has since released multiple videos disproving this. Then it seemed to be supplier issues, but ultimately and the needle landed on a battery production-related problem.

Tesla Model 3

, Model 3 seat install

The Financial Times interviewed over a dozen people — including former employees with information about Tesla’s production practices — to get a better grasp on what else might be going on. The interviews verified that an automated system that was to be used to build Model 3 battery packs is not working properly, which means work must be done by hand at the Gigafactory. Additionally, similar battery-related issues are slowing production in Fremont.

As for the “new” discoveries, which could relate to the original issues related to suppliers, FT has learned that parts aren’t arriving in a timely manner to map with the production schedule. This doesn’t necessarily mean that parts are missing, although it could. It also means that extra unneeded parts may be arriving ahead of schedule and Tesla has to store them. Neither of these situations makes for a well-synced process. FT quoted an anonymous source that shared (via Autoblog):

 “They [Tesla] showed complete befuddlement” when one supplier couldn’t turn around a revised part on Tesla’s schedule. “Tesla kept saying ‘you need to make it faster’, [but] any time you make changes [to the design], you go back to the start of the process.”

According to FT, there are issues directly related to Musk making continual, and sometimes last-minute changes to the factory, the assembly process, and the Model 3 itself. This not only slows manufacturing due to learning curves, but it can also lead to screwed up supply orders. With last-minute changes, the line needs to be slowed or even stopped to perform frequent tweaks and checks. Musk shared a video of the Model 3 line creeping along at 1/10th speed and mentioned that this is to:

“…confirm build consistency and so that a person can stop the robots in time if something goes wrong.”

Despite all of this, Tesla stock is still faring quite well, many analysts are still siding with the company and expecting a positive future, and a wealth of people are still enamored with the Model 3. Yes, enamored enough to even wait years for their prized car. Though there’s no excuse for such issues, successfully starting a highly disruptive automotive startup in this day and age is an epic feat. This is why no one else even attempts it. Let’s just hope Tesla gets everything worked out as soon as possible.

At the end of the day (or quarter if you will), if the line is up and running, with production being churned out and reservations filled in a more timely matter only a few months late, none of this will matter so much.

Source: Autoblog

Categories: Tesla

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155 Comments on "Financial Times Investigates Tesla Model 3 Production Issues"

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Another Euro point of view

All these production issues will soon be solved one way or the other however solving those will be costly not to mention the added SC’s and services centers that are needed so IMO Tesla is probably currently wondering how to best pass the message that $35K base versions of the Model 3 will be delayed for ever or that new base price is now $42.5K. A bit like GM did with the European Bolt (AmperaE) recently. If Elon was overly optimistic with this ramp up timing it is not crazy to think he was optimistic as well with this car production costs.

You always seem to know more about Tesla’s financial situation than Elon. Please, don’t be surprised if no one is taking you seriously…

Another Euro point of view

It is not only about knowing your financial situation, it is also about grabbing media attention, and Musk is an expert in that field.

How does saying “we will produce 250K model 3 per year with a base price of $42K” compared to “we will produce 500K model 3 per year at a base price of $35K”.

He needed the huge reservation list, all the Tesla narrative that keeps it alive financial wise is based upon that reservation list among other things.

u might want to pre-accounce when you want to switch tactics and do intelligent and honest announcements.
Until then, we will just assume that you will continue making with your current contra-style.

Notice how serial anti-Tesla FUDsters suddenly post something that appears reasonable when they want to write a “concern troll” post?

Just how hypocritical can a troll get? Looks like the Tesla haters are testing the limits.

Tesla haters have been trying to convince everyone that Tesla will never actually sell a $35,000 Model 3 from the day that base price was first announced. I’d like to hope that they will finally stop when Tesla does actually start selling the bottom-tier trim level… but then, the way they keep describing current Model 3 sales as “fake”, I’m sure they’ll find a way to continue their fake news FUD campaign.
🙄 🙄 🙄

It’s not without precedent. Look what happened to the 60 S, the 60 X, and even the 40 S. They were sold in token numbers and then scrapped. The S was originally a $58K car.

The base Model 3 seems to be more in line with what people want, though, than the Model S 60 or especially the 40. Those were still expensive cars but didn’t have the range to justify.

A $35k Model 3 with 220 mile range looks to be a very popular offering, so the reason for discontinuing those earlier Model Ss does not apply.

The reason for discontinuing the 40 was, no matter what Tesla said, because Tesla couldn’t make money on them.

And the suggestion is that this concern does apply to the base Model 3.

It is completely and utterly disingenuous for you to keep repeating that. The fact that you do keep repeating that, Unlucky… well, as I have said before, I don’t see you as an outright FUDster troll, but you certainly are willing to step over the line into that territory, rather often.

There is an enormous difference between Tesla cancelling the Model S40 due to lack of demand — which actually happened — and this conspiracy theory of Tesla cancelling the $35,000 Model 3, which will certainly be in high demand. For Tesla to cancel that would be a public relations disaster. Suggesting Tesla would do that anyway is nothing but pure FUD, and you know it!

The real question isn’t whether or not Tesla will eliminate the bottom trim level Model 3. The real question is how soon Tesla will start reducing the price of the Model 3! Of course, that question doesn’t fit your Tesla bashing agenda, does it?

Every automaker creates a low price stripped version of each car to uee for advertising purposes. And, it’s always almost impossible to get. So, Tesla isn’t doing anything unheard of.

I just find it amusing that people think Tesla will actually make the $35k M3 readily available when it’s obvious that they’d lose money selling it. Maybe when they achieve mass production economies of scale, and lower prices further, they’ll be able to sell at that price and break even. But that’s years off.

I don’t know, everyone is always saying things are years off or impossible and then, even if a little late from Musk’s optimistic promise, they do it. Having said that, now that Tesla is working on achieving real mass production, may have to be a little more dislikes about tweaking

I have no doubt that Tesla will get the M3 into mass production. It’ll have some issues the first year, but then it’ll be fine.

I just don’t believe they can sell a $35k version of it without losing money.

It may well be that almost every auto maker loses money on the bare-bones, stripped down, no-options versions of its cars. And it may well be that Tesla is in the same position.

And so what? Auto makers do make bare-bones units of their cars, despite not making money at it. It’s pure FUD to assert Tesla won’t do the same.

Will Tesla try to upsell those who buy the base trim level? Of course! There were plenty of reports of Tesla reps trying to upsell those who reserved the Model S40. And what’s wrong with that? Tesla is a business, after all; and businesses have to make money to stay in business. And Tesla does make money, despite the continual whining of the Tesla bashers.

I don’t have an issue with any automaker, including Tesla, creating a practically unavailable stripped version of each car model for marketing purposes. It’s business.

What is annoying is people who claim that’s not the case for the M3 because Tesla is somehow better than all the other “evil” automakers. Building only electric cars doesn’t make Tesla a saint.

Norm Dill
“I don’t know, everyone is always saying things are years off or impossible and then, even if a little late from Musk’s optimistic promise, they do it.”

Yes, they do it sometimes, but somehow it happens exactly how some other “people say”. Model X, two years late and most unreliable SUV. “Bluestar”, aka Model 3 was supposed to be $20k-$30k family car some time in 2015.
https://www.cnet.com/news/teslas-bluestar-to-be-all-electric-family-car/

What is next, cross-continent transportation of people on ICBMs at airline ticket prices? I will leave it for somebody else to guess the outcome 😉 It reminds of the great historic visionary, Baron Munchausen:
https://i.pinimg.com/736x/99/74/6f/99746f01630674170e9436bf4e5b63a8–baron-fairy-tales.jpg

I wouldn’t call double price years later “a little late” even if it is subjective.

$30,000 in 2008 is exactly $35,079.45 in today’s dollars after adjusting for inflation.

It was also originally going to be a 200 mile range car, based upon the OLD test cycle as it was before 2008. That is the equivalent of about 165-170 miles of range on the old test cycle. But the car they are actually delivering has about 50 more miles of range than that on the latest test cycle.

Considering they were making a prediction a decade away based on a long term business plan to explain why they started with a sports car, they are pretty accurate.

Why the whining? Do you just not understand the concept of inflation?

Wow, you’re really reaching now. They knew that inflation would be for the last 9 years? Uh huh

CCIE —

Get a damn clue. The nutter was claiming that the original target given in 2008 dollars of 30K was wrong. In reality, Tesla nailed their estimate in 2007/2008 of how much it would cost. It would cost 30K in 2008 dollars.

You just have to then translate 2008 dollars into 2017 dollars. When you do that, it is 35K, right on their projections, REGARDLESS of the change in the value of the USD.

If inflation had been higher, and the 2017 dollar had been worth 38K instead of 35K, and Tesla was selling the Model 3 for 38K, they would STILL have hit their target.

That is because the REAL VALUE of the dollar is meaningless for them hitting their target. It is just a conversion factor, like converting from metric to SAE units.

The estimate of 30K in 2007/8 was dead-on the money, if not conservative since Tesla delivered more range than the 30K was based on.

The change in the real value of the USD absolutely DOES NOT make the $30K number wrong, or a lie.

Sadly, we have another half-wit who does not understand inflation, and how to properly make CPI adjustments.

I realize you have most of your outlandish claims about Tesla thrown in your face over the past few weeks. But, there’s no reason to resort to name calling.

I fully understand inflation and its impact. I just don’t believe Tesla was estimating inflated dollars at launch date when they made their ridiculous pricing claims. If they were, it was one more deceptive tactic.

Since when is this true for “every manufacturer”? I’m pretty confident I could get a base model of just about any car made by a large automaker. Even if not we’re talking like a few hundred dollars of extra of add-ons like rubber floor mats, not a $15,000 higher price.

There are some exceptions, but in general it’s hard to find a stripped base model of any car.

And, yes, we are talking about thousands of dollars in high-profit options, not dealer add-ons like floor mats. They majority of car profit is earned on options.

“Tesla haters have been trying to convince everyone that Tesla will never actually sell a $35,000 Model 3 from the day that base price was first announced”

wrong. At least for me.

I wrote token quantities, so a few thousand so they can say “see, we sold it”.

Then they will stop production / increase prices for whatever reason, excuse.

You can timestamp this.

Mark my words.

PS: PP, you made fun of me when I called the July 2017 launch date a PR SHAM.

How about now? November 2017 and no outside customer got a car yet.

*yawn*

You guys have failed over and over make your predictions. You nutters said Tesla would never deliver the Roadster. Fail.

That Tesla would never deliver the Model S. Fail.

That Tesla would never deliver the Model X. Fail

Never did any of you predict Tesla blowing past the 250,000 unit sales. Fail.

Now we are supposed to believe the latest whining about the TM3 220? Another fail waiting in the wings.

The Model 3 is 1 quarter late, and you would think it was the end of the world. It isn’t.

So anyone with any bit of skepticism is “them” versus your perceived “us”?

In this case the “us” team all believe the Musk will defy business logic and sell no profit versions over profitable versions because he cares about you being able to afford and buy a Tesla sooner than later? Wouldn’t it be smarter to capitalize on your profitable reservations before they cancel and also in order to have cash to pay back the billions in bonds that you made a covenant on?
I for one, believe that Musk is smart not stupid.

Lawrence — tftf is one of those actual self-admitted shorter of TSLA stocks.

Not just some guy who gets called a shorter, but somebody who has openly admitted multiple times to being a notorious shorter.

Them == notorious shorters who are allowed to post their bullpucky here by the owners of the board.

“They” have done a horrible job at accurately predicting what will happen at Tesla in the big picture.

Perhaps. But I can’t disagree with him on this point and the merits of his argument here.

If he is shorting the stock, then that’s his money. All of the back and forth nonsense is counterproductive.

“PS: PP, you made fun of me when I called the July 2017 launch date a PR SHAM.

How about now? November 2017 and no outside customer got a car yet.”

Tesla haters get a lot of practice in moving goal posts. Here, you’ve had to move the posts from “only pretending to produce cars” to “only inside customers getting cars”.

And yeah, the only appropriate response to a lying serial Tesla hating FUDster is to point and laugh. Because treating your posts as if they are worthy of a reasoned response is giving them a lot more credit than they deserve.

Pointing and laughing at your posts is precisely what you deserve, nothing more.

http://i56.photobucket.com/albums/g194/Lensman03/Smileys/Sonic-hedgehog.jpg

You are the Pig-snout cheerleader maid living in a cave, who never addresses that Model S USA sales are Down YoY and Peak model S & X are well in the past. best outcome is flatlining sales in the US going fwd. Intl sales are a Total Sham unknown since they Never report End User Customer Deliveries by Country, and their China 2016 Market Share is a Total Joke. Just Admit there are Serious miscalcualtions And Misstatements and a Serious Model 3 Delay and Existing Shareholder Lawyer Lawsuits. No farking Spin from you and your Nanny Nix.

P-P… you sound like a naughty 4 year old who’s just had his bottom spanked!
No, really, ease up on all that FUDster/Troll/Tesla hater vocabulary. It is puerile.

My guess is that VW/Audi/Daimler is paying you for this comment job.
They call this “community manager” 🙂

Another Euro point of view

You forgot to mention Nissan, BYD, Toyota & Hyundai. I often comment favorably regarding those companies.
The other day I was complaining that VW did too many concept cars. I got almost sacked.

Sarcasm off.

It’s amazing the confidence exuding or trying to convey some semblance of knowledge about the disaster that’s called model 3. But what takes the Cake , is , you also “confidently know the process with the Ampera!

So when will a base, $35k Model 3 be delivered to a non-employee customer? I’m beginning to question if a true base 3 will ever be delivered, especially with Tesla in a cash crunch.

As for the article itself, no surprises at all. But the TSLA cultists will just put the blinders on and continue to sip their coffee in the burning room ala Everything is Fine Dog.

The $35k stripper will be delivered on the 12th of Never !

Neveruary 32 is a long time from now, still holding my breath, thinking “Everything is fine dog”, while getting blue in the face.

They will have surpassed the 200k mark long before they start shipping the stripper’s, hope you were not thinking you might get another 7.5k off !

They call strippers the “base model” now.

$3 billion in cash is on the balance sheet. Stop making up bs.

The burned through 1.2B last quarter, 3B (if thats even true) is nothing at the rate they are going.

You beat me to it.

http://money.cnn.com/2017/11/02/technology/tesla-cash-crunch/index.html

Anyone who is really a Tesla fan should want them to sell lots of premium models and few basic because you want the company to turn a profit and be solvent.

Serial anti tesla troll thomas

3 billions it was at begin of Q3. At the end it’s 3.5 billion. But only because Tesla get 2.6 billions fresh capital. So cash burn of 2.1 billions. Why don’t you guys look at the numbers given in the Q3 report? Then you would realise how bad it is.

Maybe you should look at your pretty famous countryman Winston Churchill’s quote:

“A pessimist sees the difficulty in every opportunity; an optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty.”?

Or you could just go back to your self-identified moniker of being nothing in life but an- whiney internet troll.

The cash burn actually is pretty concerning. It means that Tesla doesn’t have years to get it right. They need to start executing very quickly or their funding could dry up.

I don’t know why people try to downplay the risks involved here?

That’s why it’s called a Ghost company

All you have done is PROVE that there is no “cash crunch” at Tesla, because they are able to raise all the cash they need.

Just like Ford. $3.8 Billion in the last 12 months.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2016-12-05/ford-to-issue-long-term-auto-debt-for-first-time-since-2013

http://cbonds.com/news/item/959925

Are you guys somehow confused about how companies raise money when they want to build their business?

There is no cash crunch, they have plenty of money on hand.

Your last sentence doesn’t fit the rest.

If Tesla raises money again soon it will be in accordance with the rest of your post. But it will disprove your last sentence.

It’s a capital-intensive business. If they can’t ramp up soon they will have to raise money again. They don’t really have plenty of cash on hand, even if they seem to have little trouble raising more when needed.

There is no contradiction at all. Do you need me to teach you what cash on hand means? They have plenty of it. Way more than they need to launch the Model 3.

Borrowing cash to pay for ops expenses is buying time. Unfortunately they need to keep borrowing money not only until the launch, but until they are cash positive. Two head winds, one is that they need to make a lot of profitable Model 3 ‘s per quarter and the second is that there is far less demand for their ZEV credits which was a significant source of their revenue. GM doesn’t need them anymore as they have their own source. Other manufacturers now have excess ZEV credits. Raising cash gets progressively harder as they borrow more yet do not show a significant improvement in their financial situation. Each extra quarter that they need to launch the M3 will put them significantly more in jeopardy and make it harder to dig themselves out of. Burning 1 billion is easy. Netting 1 billion is enormously hard. Just to break even, they need a GP of 30% on $50k cars and to produce and sell 67,000 of those cars a quarter or more than 5000 per week. That’s just to stop the bleeding. More to payback the bonds issued. There’s a reason for all of the stress that they have right now. I… Read more »

Lawrence — I see you have gone full maroon.

Tesla is spending money to expand, not to just operate. Until you are smart enough to figure that out, you will always get it wrong.

It has been repeatedly shown that if Tesla were to stop expanding, they would operate at a profit, even without selling a single ZEV credit. The Model 3 just makes that easier.

The Model 3 represents a projected 120 Billion dollars in sales in the first 5 years of a planned 10 year build cycle. You lack the long term perspective to evaluate the costs of bringing a car line to the market. Absolutely no car company thinks in the short term of quarters when planning a car’s sales lifecycle. They use the full planned life of that generation they are investing in.

I’m sorry you are too short-sighted to understand how to plan the finances around bringing a new line of cars to market.

Nix somehow you don’t have the ability to get so ridiculously emotional about the slightest skepticism that all is not well at Tesla.

No wonder everyone hates you here.

Simple question genius. What percentage of outstanding Tesla bonds are convertible?

PS — the bonds coming due are all convertible.

How many do you think will convert?

Sadly, you don’t understand the implications of the bonds being convertible to Tesla’s cash flow, and can’t think yourself through the offering to understand how the bonds are zero threat to Tesla’s cash on hand.

I never said that the bonds themselves were the threat, I said that the cash burn is their threat. The inability to make good on their covenant is their threat. So if their net income doesn’t turn and they lack the ability to pay their coupons on these non-convertible bonds that they have been issuing at large then it is a bad spiral to be in. You’re overthinking the basic principle of negative operating income and the lack of liquidity.

So far my anticipations have held true. One was that people were wrong to assume that Musks statement that they wanted to simplify the process with a “standard build” meant a stripped down model. They read too much into the statement about standardizing for ease of manufacturing. That makes no sense. There’s no hard science in figuring out what to do as a business. It’s basic economics. Tesla is a business that needs to do as most companies have to do, maximize shareholder value. They have covenants to meet. I anticipated that this first build would be a loaded up Model 3 because they need to make money. I also said that as a business, you maximize your profit per unit, meaning that your lowest priority is the low profit product. When you have excess capacity (low demand on the loaded up model) that’s when you build the low/no profit Model 3. So my anticipation is that there will be plenty of demand for the first build ($50k version), then the AWD with bigger battery and premium trim next. So instead of the second build being cheaper, it will actually be more expensive than the first build. Of course for… Read more »

So has mine. These are production pilot or Beta build vehicles. Hence all the NDA and social media censorship.

Beta builds are for internal use. Big customers get access under NDA. At this phase, tweaks can still be made for HVM ramp.

They’ll sell a token number of stripped base M3s, just so they can claim it’s available. But, that configuration won’t be readily available anytime soon (if ever) because they’ll lose money on it.

And so the latest round of backpedaling by the Tesla haters begins. “Oh, those $35,000 Model 3’s don’t count because…”

What am I backpedaling on? I’ve consistently said they’ll sell a token number of $35k M3s, purely for marketing purposes.

Telsa got backed into a corner when they announced that price, and then the Bolt was introduced at about the same price. So, they’re making the stripped base car as undesirable as possible to minimize sales. On top of that they won’t let people order that config now. And, my bet is that even when it becomes orderable they’ll provide extremely long lead times for anyone attempting to order it.

Tesla got “backed into a corner” by deciding on a MSRP for the Model 3?!?! I guess every auto maker gets “backed into a corner” when they announce a price for a new model, hmmmm? 🙄

That’s what passes for “logic” from Tesla haters. *Sigh*

Tesla has a track record of raising prices between vehicle announcement and start of deliveries. Mostly because they have little experience building cars so they poorly estimate costs.

They absolutely would have raised the base price of the M3 if they didn’t feel the need to slightly undercut the base Bolt price. Instead, they decontented the base M3 as much as possible, force options on other orders, and will play other games to minimize the number of unprofitable stripped base M3s sold.

If they treat it like the Model S 40, then yes, I’ll be explaining how they don’t count. No backpedaling, because I never said otherwise.

If you delay it a long time, try to push your customers out of it and then cancel it before you deliver one then yes, it doesn’t count. It doesn’t mean the company did what they claimed they would do.

Of course right now it’s impossible to know for sure what Tesla will do with the base model since that is in the future.

I thought the earnings call covered that. Before the builds of the dual motor and P series Model 3’s.

Just don’t be disappointed if you get an email that reads something like “due to the overwhelming demand for AWD, the base model 3 has been delayed a few months.” There is no recourse for him changing the schedule.

The base model serves as a way of driving up demand and to keep reservation numbers high. You have to ask yourself what is the purpose of making a no profit car when you have demand for a high profit car.

Your checks in the mail. D. Koch

They will deliver it on February 31st, whatever year comes first 😉

SABOTAGE BY FOSSIL FUEL CARTEL GO TESLA GO DESTROY DIRTY GAS GUZZLERS one model 3 at a time.

Another Euro point of view

You are a darling 🙂

Elon Musk will be ousted or step down within 24 months. It’s the natural progression of nearly all innovative companies. They reach a point of maturity where the original CEO/visionary is a hindrance. That point is probably less than 24 months away and where a more structured approach will need to take the place of seat of your pants management.

Ousted when you are the largest majority share holder …. Doesn’t happen.

I do think he will stay on the board but’s move on to focus on the other companies that he started up. It is a smart move that he created other places to gracefully shift to.

He’s not an operations guy. That’s what Tesla needs once it’s humming along.

Tom if Elon is ousted there will be ICE in a tesla believe me without elon the EV transition will stop.

Another Euro point of view

You must have little faith in EVs for writing this. EVs are just becoming better than ICE so nothing is going to stop them, certainly not the mutation of a loss making niche car maker that happens to be a media darling.

Hey Mister G: Please go and drive an EV. Just take a long test drive. Enjoy the instant torque, the lack of shifting, the quiet drive… then come back here. We’ll be waiting for your apology.

Young Aaron we haven’t been introduced…on September 2012 I leased a 2012 Leaf SL for 39 months $330 per month $3000 down; on January 2016 I leased a 2016 Leaf SV for 36 months $321 per month $1500 down, I have been a member of the 1% of Americans that drive EVs for 5 years. Your turn.

Musk’s stock is structured so that even if someone collected a majority of they can’t oust him.

Most tech founders eventually step aside, ouster or not. Their aim is to create not to manage. I suspect in 24 months there will be a full blown volume car company, a fully mature storage solution, a semi, a revitalized/revamped solar offering (with roof), and Y up and running. Time to go to Mars or something. Chairman? Yes. Day to day leader? doubt it.

Tom,

Elon is neither the “tech founder” nor “original CEO/Visionary” He BOUGHT the company out from under the original founders because he believed in their vision but had a bigger vision for where it could go.
True, he is not a operations guy and Tesla would benefit from one, but without Elon’s ‘drive’ that person may not be enough to keep Tesla going.

I think Tesla has grown large enough that it can survive any one person leaving, including Elon. It’s going to happen sooner or later, so why not sooner? Seems to me the sooner the better for Tesla to get rid of a CEO who is holding back company growth with his micro-managing obsession and his refusal to delegate authority. The bigger a company gets, the worse those leadership styles work.

That already happened. The people you are talking about are Martin Eberhard and Marc Tarpenning.

Thanks for showing how little you know about Tesla’s history.

They can’t oust him nor it would make sense to oust it now. Tesla would be instant toast without Musk. He creates the hype and raises billions to burn each quarter, even before investments.

As debt interest and cash burn rate increases, the only way out of this vicious circle is through Chapter 7. Shareholders and most debt holders, including Musk (if he will not sell and use some golden parachute before) will be wiped out and new owners and new management may create sustainable business, at least in theory. Or not. Anyway, Tesla brand is likely to stay.

ROTFLMAO!!!
😆 😆 😆

Completely and utterly disconnected from the reality that Tesla is a healthy and fast-growing company!

It’s really sad when a lying serial FUDster starts believing his own lies. 🙁

There are more than enough people working to advance EVs. Many of them working for Tesla already. Maybe a CEO Straubel?

No one will ever put an ICE in a Tesla. Put down your tinfoil and Elon colored glasses. Musk has done a few job, but Tesla is a collectives work, not a single persons.

Another Euro point of view

I agree with that, Tesla will remain as brand as value. I see a future a bit like Jaguar. I mean with design and R&D done by Tesla but all production done by specialist like Magna, thus without all the goof ups and keeping production costs under control. This vertical integration nonsense with production located in one the world’s most expensive place will lead them nowhere. Probably Musk is having sleepless nights realizing that no matter how many billions he manages to raise Tesla will sink them right away trying to compete with the big ones. In Europe and China for example this costly supercharger networks will soon become a burden for Tesla as better competitors networks are being deployed. A niche USA focused $45K+ car maker, that is how I see Tesla future with information I have now, and that only if Elon is showed the exit and a much more rigorous management approach is taken, if not then who knows what will happen.

Musk cannot be ousted. But I suspect he will hire someone within the next 6 months from a big car co (such as a Ford or GM) to run Tesla going forward, and will shift his focus more towards SpaceX and SolarCity.

Musk will eventually come to the realization that the skills that worked really well in creating new premium designs may not translate as well to mass producing a budget line. And with that realization hopefully will hire someone who does have the mass production skills.

At the risk of agreeing with a serial Tesla hater (“Tom”) on this one point, I’ve been saying for at least months, if not a year or two, that Tesla would be better off if Elon would step back away from the CEO position to just a board position.

Elon is still exhibiting the same control freak tendencies which caused production of the Roadster to be delayed and over budget. I entirely agree with Lawrence when he says Elon is “not an operations guy. That’s what Tesla needs once it’s humming along.”

SpaceX needs Elon. Tesla no longer does, at least not in the CEO position. He can stay on the board as an advisor.

Wow! I agree with you for once. Elon is an amazing guy and I’m not able to think of anyone else who could have done what he has with Tesla. And he’s rather obviously not an operations kind of guy. The only unclear thing for me is whether this whole reinvent the factory idea has any meat on its bones. If it does, Musk may be the kind of guy needed to make it happen – someone who seems almost compulsively drawn to doing things the hard way and proving that it can be done, with little regard to the risk. The kind of guy who could convince people making a reusable rocket was a commercial project, not a research project. But if Tesla’s goal now is to become a mainstream car maker it needs a different CEO who is more pragmatic, more respectful of risk, and less inclined to believe the company should only regard fundamental physics as true limitations. Besides, SpaceX and Boring should be enough to keep him occupied for a few years. I actually don’t think Elon has much difficulty appreciating this himself. If not for the “reinvent the factory” – a new huge challenge –… Read more »

Thanks for your thoughtful comments. Terawatt.

I agree, it’s going to be interesting to see if Elon can succeed with his vision of reinventing the factory. Personally I would guess it’s too soon; that robotics isn’t advanced enough for that to be economically competitive. But we will see what happens. Elon has certainly proven doubters were wrong many times; maybe he will again!

If he does succeed in this, it’s going to be utterly transformative. It would mean far cheaper products of heavy industry… and would also mean the complete elimination of assembly line jobs in industrialized nations. At best a two-edged sword there.

If true, this may explain the recent departure of battery guy at Tesla. Screw up, and heads will roll. Not sure what that’ll do for morale, though. You can’t manage people to do good work with too strong of a stick.

Especially after seeing 700-1,200 of your co-workers recently “fired” for “performance”. That’s certainly not a morale booster.

So will you put up with inferior products and sloppy work? If you drive a gas guzzler you probably will LOL

Get out of here nutcase G. Tesla needs a structure organization.

What Tesla needs is to stop supply chain SABOTAGE by fossil fuel mafia.

What you need is to calm down!

I’m sure most of them will not be missed.

Sounds to me that Tesla is making positive progress getting Model 3 through startup Production Hell. Lol…. the closer Tesla Model 3 gets to high volume production the more panicked the TSLA shorts get… love it!

PuPu’s love child,

Give it a rest with the Tesla shorting, it’s so outdated.

I seriously doubt if anyone who has ever visited this site has ever shorted any Tesla stock, and if they have, I doubt they would be foolish enough to admit it.

@Alan said: “I seriously doubt if anyone who has ever visited this site has ever shorted any Tesla stock…”
————-

Wrong.

Certain very outspoken SeekingAlpha.com TSLA shorters often post Tesla Fud on this and other EV related sites… this is well known.

Another Euro point of view
Well known by who ?!? Pupu accused me of being a shorter while I only got to know that shorters existed by starting reading Seeking Alpha in 2015. Then it took me another year to understand the basics of how this is actually done (borrowing stocks and selling them). I also understood it is possible to short a stock through option trading but I barely understand what a stock option is. NO. What the Tesla cultist don’t understand here is that we (the skeptics) are genuine EV enthusiast that feel that EV sites/forums are very easily hijacked by those “one brand” cultist. This beyond my comprehension as, for example in Europe, Tesla does not even come in the top five best sold pluggins most of the time. Lets not even talk of asia, where being in the top ten is completely out of reach. So my advice to tesla cultists: please COOL DOWN down and then you will see that most comm-enters you believed were shorters will have a much more favorable approach towards all Tesla matters. Take this advice very seriously as I really believe that Tesla cultist do a lot of bad publicity to Tesla upon general public.… Read more »

PuPu accuses anyone that says anything even slightly critical of Tesla as a TSLA short. That’s his MO.

Gosh, I don’t recall ever having accusing myself of being a Tesla stock shorter, yet heaven knows that I frequently post criticisms of Tesla. 🙄

I just don’t post Big Lies (or even small ones) about Tesla. Unlike you, bro1999, I honestly believe what I post, every time. Sadly, that’s a foreign concept for you.

Pu-pu,
You sound like that guy from North Korea. One Truth, one Leader, and only one who has monopoly to certify True Truthfulness, Pu-pu himself!

Seriously, get your pills man.

zzzzz works for Toyota on their fool cell program, that is why he is so bitter.

Of course, he might also have some mental issues with Tesla’s success like Madbro?

“Another Euro point of view” said:

“…I only got to know that shorters existed by starting reading Seeking Alpha in 2015.”

Is this supposed to convince anyone you’re not shorting Tesla stock? Your posts certainly read like all those Tesla hater posts over on Seeking Alpha which are posted by those who proudly proclaim they are shorting Tesla stock.

In the first place, “Another Euro…”, there is no reason to believe anyone who serially posts FUD. If you are willing to repeat lies both Big and small, why should we believe anything you say? In the second place, what motive would you have to repeat the FUD and Big Lies created by Tesla stock shorters, unless you were doing the same yourself?

Now, perhaps you do have some other motive for being a serial Tesla hater. Perhaps, like “zzzzzzzzzzzz”, you’re shilling for Big Oil. Perhaps, like Bro1999, you’re shilling for GM and see Tesla as an existential threat to GM’s continued success.

But whatever your motive is for serially posting FUD and Big Lies about Tesla, it’s not an honest one. FUD is a disinformation strategy. It is fundamentally dishonest, and nothing good or even neutral can rest on that foundation.

Another Euro point of view
I am not a shorter (however in another life I wish I would, I like the film “wolf of wall street”, seems glamorous to me) but rather interestingly it is through reading the comments on Insideevs/Electrek from people like you that at times referg to Seeking alpha that I became interested and read some articles. Being an accountant I could read that easily, those shorts obviously make big issues of sometimes trivial Tesla flaws and I agree they miss the big picture. However there are some fine articles (writers like Montana Skeptic and Don) and I note by reading the comments that even some Tesla longs (“moderate bulls”) do like those articles as they help them to have a more balanced opinion, which in turn helps them hedging their investments. I am sure that even you Pupu sometimes do read those articles and have to accept that, even if picture drawn by those shorts is way to dark, some truth can be found in them. That was my conclusion any way and nothing as stupid as a full Tesla fanboy (which you are not, being critical of Musk’s management at times) than perhaps a utterly extremist Tesla short believing that… Read more »

Yes, I did read the Tesla-related blog posts and comments at Seeking Alpha for a time, maybe a year. It was kind of a surreal fish-out-of-water experience, being the only person posting comments there who wasn’t an investor! It was educational, in the sense of “Know thine enemy”, reading all those arguments from Tesla FUDsters and haters. And yes, I did want to expose myself to the short-sellers’ arguments. Not all short-sellers are FUDsters and serial liars; some few of them actually stuck to the truth and made some good points. But sadly, all those motivated by short-selling who post to InsideEVs comments seem to be of the FUDster / serial Big Lie promoter ilk.

I notice, “Another Euro…”, that you didn’t attempt to explain your motive for posting Tesla hater FUD here, despite your otherwise reasonable-sounding comments on the subject.

Well we can certainly all agree a wide range of opinions, not all of them based on fact.
For instance if I stated that Tesla is the Top maker of premium ev’s in the world, and that they are the best cars ever made, would that make me a finnatic, or just someone stating facts?

It’s a luxury ev, so it’s sales are naturally limited by price and to a lesser extent availability, and yet they are going great guns in China they are not going to outsell mid priced BYD evs.
So your argument and conclusion are not valid since you wrote to a conclusion and not to what it really means.

But that’s what most people do is select only the facts that they like ignoring the ones they don’t and say, now how can you disagree?

Another Euro point of view
I agree that: 1/ Tesla has done a lot to make EVs desirable cars. 2/ Considering Tesla’s average prices their sales figures allover the world are good. I however disagree that: 1/ Tesla is a business model for others to follow. Should car makers follow Tesla example we would soon all be cycling around as all would have gone bankrupt. 2/ Tesla has any technological advance whatsoever as compared to other large car makers. 3/ That Tesla doing well in upper market is such a great achievement. If Lexus, Audi, Merc., BMW, would sell cars at 100 that would cost 120 to produce they would also probably sell more than current situation where by make a car that cost 80 and sell it at 100. Moreover given that this niche market was structurally loss making, Tesla had no competition on early large battery EVs for a very good reason. 4/ That, in the long run, a charger network is an advantage. It is now but by 2-3 years from now it will become a drag. 5/ Elon Musk is a savior of some sort. Now to put things straight, I don’t really care and do not have that firm opinion,… Read more »

@Another Euro point of view said: “Now to put things straight, I don’t really care and do not have that firm opinion…”
———-

Lol… glad you clarified that…

I had incorrectly concluded from your many long-winded comments about all that’s wrong with Tesla that you had a firm opinion that Tesla was doomed to fail. Glad to hear your not firmly convinced of your own position taken on the topic.

Another Euro point of view

Indeed, I am always glad to be proven wrong, this why I am not a cultist in any way, maybe it is a cultural thing. In the country I come from (Belgium) about 50% of the people do not believe there is life after death, in church etc…(sort of “need to see to believe” approach).That makes us culturally very skeptical of strong opinions/dogmatic believes/black & white type of opinions which seems fairly common in the US apparently.

@Reply to Another Euro point of view said: “I am always glad to be proven wrong…”
—————-

Perhaps that’s why your in a habit of making so many wrong statements? … because that puts you in a state of gladness. Do you believe the gibberish you write or do you just put out whatever comes off as sounding contrarian so that it somehow certifies you as an anti-cultist?

Alan said:

“I seriously doubt if anyone who has ever visited this site has ever shorted any Tesla stock…”

Well, what are the possibilities here?

1. Alan is so ignorant of the subject he actually believes all the Tesla stock shorters confine themselves to posting on Seeking Alpha, Yahoo Finance, and Motley Fool. This despite “tftf” and Mark B. Spiegel coming out and admitting, in comments posted to InsideEVs, that they are long-term Tesla stock shorters.

2. Alan is clinically insane.

3. Alan is himself a Tesla stock shorter, and like nearly all of the Tesla haters who serially post anti-Tesla FUD, he tries hard to deny that the motive for his campaign of disinformation strategy is greed.

You need to seek help, I have told you this before !

If you scroll down to comment below by qco, you will see that I agree with his comment, thus completely disproving you relentless BS once again.

It’s people like you that is turning people away from this site.

You only concern is re-reading your own naracisitc drivel which you have been writing en-mass for far too long !

BINGO. The TSLA cultists are out of control.
Can’t even mention Tesla’s name without those guys freaking out like we just slapped their grandma.

Hey bro you still mad that no one wants to talk about your beloved bolt? Or maybe you’re mad that there are hundreds of bolts sitting on dealers lots with $5,000 off incentives and they still can’t give them away. All the while Tesla could sell as many as they could make. Maybe this is what has driven you insane with jealousy to come and spam every Tesla thread even though you have no intentions of every buying one.

Well of course I’m a Tesla cultist, since I’m an EV advocate. Duh!

The question is, why aren’t you?!?

–Card-carrying Tesla cult member #2136

WHOMP, There It Is! Bingo! Winner winner Chicken dinner!

I will put my two cents in and say, well just cut him some slack. Your’re right of course, but not everyone that has something negative to say about Tesla is a shorter of Tesla stock.
(you said I was 1 once, if you recall).

I mean let’s try to see the humor in this.
Let’s all try to lighten up and get a chuckle. thanks

None of these manufacturing problems should be a surprise given the non-traditional approach of a fast production ramp without a pilot line for an all new product.

I’m equally confident all the issues will be resolved given some time and effort, like any manufacturing process. It just looks worse because of the non-traditional approach combined with all the attention focused on Tesla.

But I also believe this will be the last time a volume Tesla product will be ramped up with this approach. Assuming Tesla makes it over the hump (there’s a reasonable chance they will), they will be “big”, which means more operations people with structured methods will be brought in to provide more predictable outcomes with a cost optimized supply chain. The board & major shareholders will insist on it.

+1

I’d guess you’re right that Tesla will get everything sorted out fine with Model 3 production and will eventually (sometime in the next couple years) be regularly making their goal of 10,000 a week with all the options.

Not so sure if this will be the last time they struggle with a production ramp, though. They will have to buy and outfit more factories for the additional lines they’re preparing, and of those, only the Model Y seems substantially similar to what they already make. The pickup truck and especially the semi truck lines are likely going to have production ramp issues since Tesla has not yet built those types of vehicles.

There is a reason why established manufacturers do it the way they do: it works. Musk entered the scene and bragged that he can do it 5x-10x better but it all blew up in his face. Musk is the primary reason for Tesla’s problems and like someone else I think they will get rid of him soon

Yeah, Musk always thinks he can do everything better than anyone ever before. He actually seems pretty arrogant.

To his credit, sometimes he’s been right. Unfortunately, sometimes he’s also wrong. I think he’s wrong about boring, as well.

Yea, that is what they said about him when he brought the first Model S demo cars to car shows in 2009. They said he would never build them. Then when he did, they said they had “Tesla killers”.

The other car makers have had nearly a decade since those car shows to build a better EV, and yet still no “Tesla killers” have come to market.

blew up in his face? There is a 1 quarter delay. Nothing blew up.

The automation building the Model 3 is a long-term plan. This isn’t even version 0.5 yet. Version 1.0 isn’t planned until sometime in 2018. And you are already claiming it has blown up? Hardly.

sorry you short-term thinkers don’t know the plan, and shatter into jello at a 1 quarter delay and somehow equate that to something blowing up. What a drama queen.

+1

Tesla will eventualy get the manufacturing right and they need to stop making changes on the fly and have real pre production runs…

I can’t see why this would be the last time. Musk is in charge and he is convinced he’s so much smarter than everyone else that doing things the way everyone else does them is tantamount to failure. Just as happened this time (after the S/X problems) all it takes to do it again is Musk to convince himself he’s right then hammer everyone into doing it his way. If you can’t agree, then you’re gone. And we’ve seen a lot of gone. The board can do nothing really because he can just threaten to quit. The company is not worth nearly as much without him in charge. I just don’t see how a company that announces a solar roof they can’t ship, a mass-market EV they can’t ship, announces an expensive range upgrade (but no supercharging!) for the Roadster, a car they only sold 1,000 of in the first place and is now poised to announce a prototype semi truck — is going to reform. Heck, I should just say conform. They aren’t going to conform because that isn’t what they do. The company is a beautiful disaster. You can love what they do but you can’t fix them.… Read more »

unlucky said:

“…the Roadster, a car they only sold 1,000 of in the first place…”

Hmmm, actually about 2450.

I hope you are not this careless with your “facts” most of the time, Unlucky.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tesla_Roadster#Sales

The upgrade is not available for all Roadsters but apparently 2,000 could be upgraded.

http://www.greencarreports.com/news/1099868_tesla-roadster-3-0s-29000-battery-upgrade-330-miles-or-more-of-range

But no, I didn’t look up the figures because they don’t matter. The potential market for a 400 mile upgrade with no supercharging is too small to justify the effort whether they sold 2400 or 1000 Roadsters.

You’re spending your time nitpicking and ignoring the larger issue.

This is the same guy who came up with The Boring Company. An idea so bizarre even you were convinced it is a joke and you took the time to explain to others how they were wrong and you were right, that Musk wasn’t serious.

He’s a very far-out person running this company (and his other business, like The Boring Company) in a non-conformant way. And your picking on me over the number of Roadsters made doesn’t change this.

unlucky said:

“…I didn’t look up the figures because they don’t matter.”

Well, the attitude that facts don’t matter certainly explains a lot of the outright B.S. in so many of your Tesla-hater posts. 🙁

@qco:

I hope you’re right! I’d like to see far less drama every time Tesla rolls out a new model, even if that means Tesla will take longer in the development phase.

Time for Tesla to grow up and put on big boy pants.

(⌐■_■) Trollnonymous

Nah, they’re still in their teens……
Maybe after the “Y”?
😛

🙂 *Shrug* Just my opinion.

But I think you are right to point out that the company is in its teens… and acting like it!

I’m sure I will be branded a “short”, but I think this is only the beginning of the problems. Tesla already has issues with initial quality and service on the Model S and X. Just go read the Tesla forums. If Tesla begins producing the Model 3 in anywhere near the volumes they have promised those problems are only going to multiply. As many issues as they have had with the production ramp, to believe that there will be no problems with initial quality is naive. I just don’t see the infrastructure to be able to service this many new customers. These new customers may not be as forgiving of initial or ongoing quality issues as were the early adopters. Perhaps it would have been better to take things slow while under-promising and over-delivering.

This is my major concern too. I’ve been assuming that year one of M3 sales (whenever they actually begin) will have the usual reliability issues. But, those first buyers will be EV enthusiasts and will be somewhat forgiving.

But, if Tesla can’t improve reliability after year 1, once normal people start buying, then that’s a major issue. Headlines about how unreliable electric cars are would hurt everyone.

Sounds like Mr. Musk is micromanaging if he’s personally making continual adjustments to the car and the assembly process. Seems his time would be better put to use by continued vision casting, encouraging his workers, and trusting the people he hired.

From previous articles, it sounds like a lot of Tesla employees look at Elon like the leader of a personality cult. This can create greater performance as a company, as long as they are allowed to do their jobs.

A lot of people identify with and are blind to the problems of the place they work. That’s not unique to Tesla. Although with Tesla being an innovative company in a newish area it might be greater there.

“successfully starting a highly disruptive automotive startup in this day and age is an epic feat.”
Yes starting any auto company is more than an epic feat and it takes balls of steel…

“This is why no one else even attempts it.”
SAY WHAT?? Not to be rude but… do you read this site??
German Post office aka DHL making the street scooter because no one else would…
Nikola Motors…
Workhorse…
Bollinger…
FF…
Fisker…
Licid…
NIO…
And ten other Chinese EV startups…

And excluding the heavily subsidized Chinese startups, how many of the companies that you have listed have gone into mass production???

It’s fundamental that you get it right before you blast off, thus the delay. Sure, Musk is a perfectionist and full of hotdogs and hubris but he is the face of Tesla, part of it’s soul, he’s not going away anytime soon, though he probably needs to be reined in somewhat.

Let the experts handle it, so buy an automation company, and let them deal with the production headaches.
Just a matter time, before the show gets on the road, and then there will be no stopping it.

(⌐■_■) Trollnonymous

He will leave when the matters of his contract to get everything going is strong.
Can’t remember where it was posted but when all is up and running, he will get a Billion dollar payout.

We’ll at least for me that’s when I would bail…….lol

Shills, shorters, mentally ill haters and other trolls like the “guardians of the galaxy” accountant another Euro troll guy just don’t get it.

For all his warts, Elon Musk is the guy that makes Tesla go just like Jobs made Apple.

Musk will step aside when he wants to and he has previously said he will do so at some point after the Model 3 is rolling.

And there is obviously influence on Musk since after he announced that the Model Y would be on an entire new platform he changed it back under advisement by others to it being based on the Model 3 platform.

Mdel 3 will be stunningly successful and do to the 3 series, C class, Audi A class what the Model S has done to the S class and this is something that NO OTHER American car company has managed to do by beating the Euro lux brands at their own game.

Jobs made Apple very nearly go under and was thrown out against his own will, you may remember. It was the iPhone and the golden era that still is ongoing at Apple that created this myth about Jobs and the personality cult. With just small differences, it could have easily been the story about the man who broke Apple’s back.

I’m sure if we move the goalposts enough then Jobs could have been a street beggar some where.

In life, we have to deal with how things ARE not how they might have been.

You do know that the iPod and iPhone came during Jobs’ second stint at Apple, right? You don’t seem to be aware of how his first stint ended.

I’m very aware and I’m also aware at how poorly Apple did without him.

Are you?

Or to put it more succinctly “there’s a fine line between clever and stupid”.

I personally think Jobs was clever. But I do feel (which I think you are saying) that even if he was clever there’s a lot of intangibles and luck that had to go the right way for that cleverness to pay off. As such, you have to display some level of skepticism before lauding anyone else for doing things the same way Steve Jobs did. Because they very well may end up in the poorhouse just as Steve Jobs easily could have.

Yeah, there’s a large degree of selection bias with all these “great visionaries”. We only hear about the ones that beat the odds and make it big, not the hundreds who meet with much more modest success, or the thousands who just end up bankrupt.

You “…personally feel Jobs was clever”???

I can see now why you have a such issues with Tesla/Musk.

unlucky said:

“Or to put it more succinctly ‘there’s a fine line between clever and stupid’.”

Ummmm… no, there is a wide gulf between clever and stupid.

Perhaps the phrase you were looking for is “There is a fine line between genius and insanity.”

For me, the big deal about this ramp up isn’t that they’re struggling with it. It’s that they continue to be so pointlessly tight-lipped and consistently downplay problems whenever they do say something. I don’t understand why they behave this way. It’s difficult to imagine a company that has more goodwill from it’s own customer base, including us who aren’t yet customers but hope to be soon. Giving false hopes and setting unrealistic expectations all the time must erode that goodwill – and it’s Tesla’s most valuable asset. I guess I shouldn’t be surprised though. Musk has revealed several times in interviews that seeing impossible deadlines is part of his MO. He seems to actually believe that this is the best way to get the fastest progress. WHY he believes such a thing is a mystery to me though. I belive almost the exact opposite – that to “hurry slowly” (as we say in Norway) leads to the fastest progress in the long run. By which I mean a few years, not decades. To my mind, it seems pretty clear a lot of the pains described here are perfectly avoidable by simply using a more realistic schedule to begin with.… Read more »

You clearly don’t understand anything about the automotive industry.

Tight lipped about problems?

You mean like BMW who just recalled a MILLION vehicles due to a problem that dates back over a decade?

Or GM’s infamous ignition problem that dates back even further, with more cars impacted?

Tesla is actually quite highly transparent in comparison to how closed the automotive industry has been forever.

Micromanaging and amateurish manufacturing mistakes.

Material flow errors don’t explain the tiny throughput of the Model 3, but it indicates how immature Tesla is as a business.

Delivering a perfect Model 3 at this stage would be almost miraculous. The trim on the blue Model 3 in Doug Demuro’s video review the other day was so hideous I would not have taken delivery of that car.
https://insideevs.com/tesla-model-3-video-review/

By the way, trim alignment is NOT a labor/training issue – it’s a design flaw. The days of hand-fitting parts to cars *should* be long-gone, but it’s becoming evident that Tesla is not quite there yet.

We’ve seen dozens and dozens of Model 3’s without that build flaw. So no, it isn’t design.

I’m at a loss to explain why Mr. Musk is making changes all the time. Certainly anyone with half a brain must gleen that you have to STOP CHANGES at a certain point and collect all ‘good ideas’, ‘improvements’, ‘technology advances’ for next year’s model. I mean – as far as the Roadster was concerned years back – they WERE going to retrofit all roadsters with the ‘model S’ (or ‘TSL-02’) car connector, since the Universal Mobile Connector was costing Tesla money (the wildly high $1500 per each – even at first blush WIDELY profitable – ended up being a money loser since the UMC failed SO MANY TIMES under warranty. Then Roadster owners would get the flawed but still much more reliable “UC” that comes standard equipment with the “S” and “X”, with the same alleged 40 ampere rating that the UMC had. Since these failed at a lesser rate, Tesla could stop some bleeding. But they never did it. What would have been sensible in that case, since they charged $750 for a ‘J1772 converter cord’, is to simply offer a car mounted ‘j1772’ and reset the car charge rate to 30 amperes, since that was the initial… Read more »

BTW, those TSL-01 public chargers were being switched to J1772 at probably the same time you were going through all this.

For example, this:

https://api.plugshare.com/view/location/2492

Was one of the earliest Roadster charging stations. There were Clipper Creek Roadster chargers there early on so Roadster drivers could drive between the Bay Area and Sacramento (although to be fair if you were in the East Bay you didn’t need those chargers for that). They were converted along ago (around 2013 IIRC) to be all J1772 chargers. The charging units seem to be the same, just the charging connector and maybe something inside was changed.

If you look at pictures 35 and 36 (of 40) you can see the old “Tesla 240V 32A” charger which was previously a Roadster charger with a J1772 coming off it.

If you look at picture 38 you can see old SPI (small paddle interface) chargers which were there for EV1s and RAV4 EVs.

There was a CHAdeMO charger there for some time but it doesn’t work now. No unit (CHAdeMO or CCS) has taken its place. But there are other options on I-80.

Musk told us “pencils down” for the Model 3 design in July 2016 (Which in normal design-speak would be a “design-freeze”, but this is Elon, you know?”). Did he mean it?
Nah…he STILL is wielding a pencil and an eraser. Only thing, it’s hard to erase lines and pencil in revisions in production machinery.

http://www.hybridcars.com/tesla-hits-pencils-down-goal-for-model-3-final-designs-musk-says-at-gigafactory/

Negativity towards Tesla is meaningless here… it is not constructive or helpful in the long run. And most of us care only about the long run… if you can’t offer a solution, then shut up. Whining and pontificating is pointless…unless you have another agenda. If you want Tesla to fail and are using this to promote your cause, then your comments are just that… you stand out as a sore prick that is trying to get paid for his negativity…