Fastned Sketches Freedom Plan For Future Fast Charging

OCT 21 2015 BY MARK KANE 39

Fastned charging station

Fastned charging station

Michiel Langezaal, co-founder and CEO of Fastned, a Dutch fast charging network company, published earlier this month a blog post presenting its vision of fast charging in the future.

In phase one, Fastned is building in the Netherlands a network of about ~200 fast charging stations, all with at least two multi-standard chargers (50 kW) and space for a total eight.

By end of this year, they will have about 50, 90 by end of 2016 and 130 by the end of 2017.

Three major pillars determines type of stations:

High visibility and familiarity. Stations provide shelter and – perhaps more importantly – their very form makes their intention strikingly visible. Everyone can see the infrastructure is there, and this visibility is crucial for customers to find us. Fastned stations have the look and feel of regular gas station – except that they run on renewable electricity!

Standardized for all (future) electric cars. At our stations, all electric cars can be charged quickly – be it a Tesla Model S, Volkswagen e-Golf, BMW i3, Nissan Leaf or Renault ZOE. All our stations have at least two multi-standard fast chargers (CCS and CHAdeMO) and room for eight. All Fastned stations are designed to handle future generations of electric cars and future generations of faster chargers.

Reliable and redundant. We believe that stations with multiple fast chargers have fundamental advantages over individual chargers. Multiple chargers guarantee redundancy (if one is out of order you can still charge). Moreover, the waiting time is vastly reduced: the chance that a single charger is occupied is relatively high, but decreases significantly with more fast chargers. Each additional charger therefore decreases the possibility that you have to wait before you can start charging.”

Fastned quick charging station

Fastned quick charging station

Fastned’s vision goes far beyond the Netherlands to create a pan-European network in the future and increase the power of chargers to 150 or even 240+ kW.

The reason behind increasing power lies in expected larger batteries in future electric cars:

Fastned: Battery developments in the next five years

Fastned: Battery developments in the next five years

The second reason to increase charging power is to improve profitability/lower costs as higher power chargers will translate to only a modest infrastructure cost increase, according to the article. 150 kW will give three times higher charging capacity (three times more moved kWh or three times more cars at the same amount of dispensed kWh).

Fastned: Fast charging developments in the next five years

Fastned: Fast charging developments in the next five years

We in general like the Fastned vision, but some controversy appeared in Michiel’s article when in comes to slow public AC charging.

We will quote that part as an interesting glance at the charging problem, staying cautious about the possibility of reliance only/or mostly on the DC charging. Lack of home charging spot sat scale of 75% of households is a big problem (China probably is the best known example of this):

Serving those who do not have their own driveway
Charging at home is obviously convenient. However, families with their own driveway are the exception, not the rule around the world. This is especially true in cities. For example, in the Netherlands 75% of the households cannot charge their car at home.

We believe that faster charging is the only long term solution to make charging affordable for those who do not have their own driveway. Charging at more than 1200 km/h (240+ kW) means that an average car owner who drives 15.000 km annually charges approximately once every week for 15 minutes.

Some say the solution is ubiquitous AC charging infrastructure at practically all parking spaces. We think this is not an affordable solution at scale. In a best case scenario, a slow charging point can charge two cars a day. With millions of cars on the road we will therefore need millions of public charging points. At a cost of thousands of euros per public AC charging point, this seems like an expensive way to boost charging infrastructure.

And while (public) AC charging is generally done at night, the most powerful potential source of renewable energy – the sun – shines during the day.”

The last part is about using mostly solar, supported by energy storage systems, for fast charging stations.

Full article on Fastned

Categories: Charging

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39 Comments on "Fastned Sketches Freedom Plan For Future Fast Charging"

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If EV are allowed to charge for free, there will be long lines.

First is that they will be used by locals since “in the Netherlands 75% of the households cannot charge their car at home.” To serve thousands (soon to be millions) of EV with few hundred chargers won’t work. For example, some (many?) Tesla Superchargers get crowded, and most Tesla owners can charge at home.

Second, EV charging slows down, so it won’t be 50kW, more like 6kW in case of crap like Leaf. If they’re smart, they’ll restrict up to 80% SoC only. Then it’ll be closer to 50kW, although Leaf will still be slow (20kW?)

Right! The “geo-falacy” of charging at home is that people drive their cars to get to places other than home and they need to be able to charge at those places or on the way to them.

No, sorry, I don’t buy that excuse for a second. I’ve been to NL. Indeed here in the UK there are many places a home owner cannot charge.

Yet the solution is extremely simple.

1. Charging bollards. You can put them along streets that people who do not have garages park on.

2. Putting chargers in lamp posts. The posts are already power outlets. Just modify them to accept a charger.

3. Putting chargers outside houses, on walls, etc. Chargers can be used outdoors in all weather. Cables can be trailed underneath the ground allowing chargers to be located outside people’s front gates or near their cars.

Re: The posts are already power outlets. Just modify them to accept a charger.
I’m not sure what amperage the wires in the post could handle. Probably not a lot!

Car outnumber lamp posts at least 10 to 1, usually more like 15 to 1.

If charging is free at Bollards, lamp posts, etc. there will still be long lines while some left empty. This is because demand distribution is not the same all the time; popular places will have far longer wait times, giving negative experience for more people.

Lamp posts, etc are not made to handle quick charge currents, upwards of 300A. Then those will be L2, taking several hours to charge. If they’re free, problem will be more severe than free fast chargers where each EV take hours charge. I can imagine people unplugging them and fist fights breaking out.

If any public charging is free, why would people spend the money to install home chargers? Why would people with existing home chargers use them and PAY to charge when public charging is free?

All of this makes for long wait times, bad EV experience, and less likely for people to adopt EV.

FREE=BAD!

SparkEV (Not yet Available in the 2016 model, in Canada, Yet, By the way!) – you say – Free = Bad, but I say Expensive (Charging Communication Networks, Monthly Billing, and High Priced EVSE’s – like Charge Point) = Bad and Cheap (Like Clipper Creek LCS-20 @ $379 with no networks, cards, or membership required to access, versus Charge Point at ~ $5,000 – $7,000)) = Good! So – You say – Free = Lineups = Bad, and Paid = Fewer Lineups = Good? Great! Now here is the funny part – can you force each public/business/accessible charging point to be billable? Not Likely – and – even according to ChargePoint – Many of their installs are offered to the public for free, but – let’s just say they Bill a nominal Fee of $2.00 Per hour (like a Local mall, that has otherwise 1,000’s of Free Parking Spots), which is about double what most cars with 6.6 kW chargers can consume in electricity costs at local retail residential rates, and cars with just 3.3 kW chargers on board, still pay the $2.00 per hour, or 4X the cost of the Energy that they can take at their maximum! And… Read more »

I don’t know why you’re talking about L2 when fastned is for fast charging. If you read my blog, which I provided the link, I specifically mention that “fast” portion of fast charge (to 80%) being free could be tolerable, though that’s still probably won’t be as good as pay charge.

But I like your idea of limiting to certain kW better. Maybe they can cap it at 20kW, roughly 92% with SparkEV, 60% with Leaf. 😉

In CA where non Leaf/i3 have to pay nominal fee of $0.10/min ($6/hr), we don’t let it sit beyond 80% (more than 20 minutes), because it gets expensive. For Leaf that’s charging at 2kW at 95%, that can be more expensive that 10 MPG gas car if they had to pay. But when it’s free, they don’t care if it’s charging at 1kW for hours, if they’re allowed.

Oops. It looks like InsideEvs removed the link to my post. I hate it when they do that. Click on my name to get to my blog. For now, first one is about how free DCFC makes for waiting.

Free is often bad but not always. Let’s say that you install a new charger in a place where no one has an EV. Having it free for the first 6 months or year might encourage some people to buy EVs. Yes, when the demand makes a particular charger very busy, then it is time to move on from free.

If free (or prepaid) can meet the demand, it’s not a problem. But once it goes free, demand becomes ridiculous (ludicrous?). Even if there’s one fast charger per EV, some places will have long waiting with locals who use them all the time competing against distance travelers. Why charge at home when there’s free fast charger?

Didn’t Tesla have to deal with this problem recently as reflected in their infamous email to owners? The Tesla car owners were charging at the Superchargers instead of at home.

I read nothing in the article about charging for free. They charge a fee, meaning it will cost you money.

The power of DC charging will certainly evolve having an impact on infrastructure. I think it is a mistake to plan without considering the impacts of autonomous drive/charging on both businesses/individuals without a plug.

And though I am a huge supporter of renewables, moving a significant portion of EV charging to night time charging might be the best answer for at least the next couple of decades to come. Utilities argue over the cost of renewables when in fact the largest impact is peak load requirements.

I agree with Fastned’s statement about not needing a charger at every parking spot, and the increased need for more powerful future DC charging. I just think peak load displacement and autonomous charging is going to shape the EV future charging infrastructure more than is being considered in future models.

I think every EV owner should have a parking spot at home/work for regular charging. Automakers do not recommend to fast charge unless it is necessary in order to extend the battery life. Right now, with 50kW charging as standard, a fast charger can supply power to 48 cars/charger maximum (30min/charge) but in practice, it would be more like 24 cars (12 working hours). Given the price of one of these chargers (more than 40.000 eur from what I know), it’s a poor choice. They are very necessary but for long trips ala Tesla. I think the future will be smart charge: 100 dumbcheap wallboxes in a parking lot and a computer will distribute the power among the cars that are charging. You plug it in, say to the computer when you are leaving and the central computer does the rest. It would be insane to have a contract of 360kW for these 100 wallboxes to have 3,6kW in each and every of them. I don’t know about USA, but in Spain, you have to pay 80 eur/kWh per year so that’s 4000 eur/year + VAT power fixed costs for a single Chademo charger For smart charge to happen, all… Read more »
“in the Netherlands 75% of the households cannot charge their car at home.” I completely agree with the premise that high speed fast charging is the future and is necessary for total EV adoption. However, I find it dissapointing that he chooses to use the same old misleading stats that EV detractors use to make his case for his business model. 75% of households that cannot charge at home does not necessarily mean that all of those 75% will never be able to. It means that some households do not have a dedicated parking spot or that some do have a dedicated parking spot but don’t CURRENTLY have an outlet at that spot to charge whether it be a driveway, garage or dedicated condo or apartment spot. The same similar stat is used for the US where they say something like 50% can’t charge at home. But that 50% number includes many households that have at least 1 dedicated spot whether it be a dedicated condo, apartment, driveway or garage/carport spot but don’t currently have an outlet installed. Many of them do have the potential to charge they just have to have a simple 120v outlet put in. Once those… Read more »

Fastnet was (is?) to be free charging. Then what incentive does EV drivers without home charging have to install home chargers and PAY for charging when there’s freebie? Worse, what incentive do EV with home chargers have to actually charge at home and PAY unless absolutely necessary?

Even today, some gascars drive half way across town to save $0.01/gal gas. If FastNed is cheaper than home charging, there will be long lines.

Fastened is not free

“Pricing plans are the same like the mobile industry. You can choose to pay per kWh or can go for a subscription: 12 euros/month + 35 cents/kWh or unlimited charging for 100 euros/month”

OR

“Fastned Founders Club: since May of this year, Fastned offers shareholders lifetime free charging. Investors that purchase more than 2500 certificates of shares of Fastned automatically become a member of this club and can charge for free for the rest of their lives.”

That’s something like 20,000 Euros.

Those plans won’t stop long waits. I doubt many will pay E20K for lifetime free.

For E100 unlimited, that’ll have problems like free charging. They already paid, why pay again to charge at home? And since it’s unlimited, why stop at 80%? Leaf is charging at 1kW speed at 98% SoC after 2 hours of “fast charging”? Well, they already paid E100, they’re going to sit until they get to 100%, no matter how long it takes!

For per kWh pricing, that’s also problematic. As charge tapers, power is reduced. In case of Nissan Leaf, I’ve seen it as low as 2kW, probably would be even slower at higher SoC. Since they’re paying per kWh, there’s no incentive to get off the charger when it slows down. Then they can sit for 3 hours while charging less than 2kW, which effectively makes even 1000kW charger to be less than 2kW, all the while taking up a fast charge spot.

http://sparkev.blogspot.com/2015/10/free-charging-sucks.html

Nonsensical story. Nobody’s going to sit hours to get a couple of kwh of power.. there’s nothing to do near most fastned stations. It’s usually even impossible to go for a walk, because highway gas stations are blocked with a fence.

You underestimate the power of free (or prepaid). You can do lots of things while car is charging for hours, such as listen audio book or take a nap. People drive half way across town to save $0.01/gal gas, there’s no reason to think they won’t spend lots of time at charger that they think they’re entitled to. Obviously, you haven’t experienced Nissan’s “no charge to take fast charge slot while slow charging”.

Fastnet is not free

I think you are right Philip, the logical place for charging to occur is at home while you aren’t using your car anyway. Most people have their car parked all night when the load on the grid is light and power is cheap, so for the minimal cost of a circuit run a few feet the vast majority of charging is accommodated. That said public fast charging is important to assure people they can always get where they need to go, even if it’s seldom used.

Night power will no longer be cheap, after the green governments shut down all base power plants and replace them with day working only solar cells. Night power will then come from expensive storages.

Oh you pathetic little troll.

Yeah, go ask Texas that generates so much clean wind energy at night that they don’t know what to do with it all. They had NEGATIVE electricity rates recently because of so much night-time wind electricity.

Hehe, we regularly have NEGATIVE electricity rates on windy and sunny weekend days in germany – and this not in the night but at noon. I’m looking forward for the times, when electricity rates are negative ALL DAY long.

To some point I have to agree with counter-strike-cat (although I really don’t like to 😉 : The whole on-peak and off-peak knowledge has to be rewritten as the mid-day price peak is now often negative during sunny days in regions with a lot of solar. So electricity may be more expensive at night already (in comparison to negative prices at noon)

A whole-lot-a-lot is gonna change in the electricity sector thanks to diminishing cost of solar installations, sinking battery prices, demand management and V2G. We are looking forward to a bright future!

Yeah, I get annoyed by the “But lots of people can’t charge at home!” complaint. Uh . . . that is a trivial thing. That just requires some basic electrician work that we’ve been doing for a hundred years.

The question is “do have a reserved night-time parking spot within reasonable range of an electricity panel”? . . . everything beyond that is basic electrician work.

Not in the netherlands. If 90% have street parking. In different places each day.

+1

At some point of time (maybe 5 to 10 years for now) it will be hard to sell an apartment without EV charging possibility and it will affect sales price negatively. There will be strong motivation to install charging posts to parking lots.

It looks like this:

I love ‘free’ as much as the next guy, but not having the ability to rely on public charging because of the people soaking up free charging means I must drive my gas SUV on long trips. Free charging is limiting the use of my vehicle, unfortunately, and as a result I am a supporter of charging infrastructure that charges a reasonable fee.

You are imposing obviously problems that are occurring in the USA to the Netherlands and the rest of Europe. Cultures are very different from the USA.

The free plan is very expensive compared to the tesla network and also doesn’t work out very well compared to the 12 euros – 35c/kwh plan that fastned has. Even if you’d try to do some shady vehicle to grid thing you’d still leave it 90 percent and not hog the charger.

Fastnet is not free, they have fees by the kWh charger.

You know those signs at gas station pumps, the ones that say – “If Paying inside, Please Pay Before Moving Forward”?

How about this idea – DC Fast chargers – that will not charge a car past the 80 – 85% Level – and you must then move your car to slower L2 @ 40 Amps or even maybe 20 Amps Charging circuits – to finish off the last 20%?

So – they could put in 10 L2 EVSE’s at 20 Amps for a basic 240V x 200 Amps Supply, and all EV’s charge on the Fast Chargers only to ~25 – 35 Minutes or so, then move to the L2 Charging Points – to complete their charge – if they need 100%!

Also – cars that do not have Fast Charging – could stop at these same 20A L2 Stations for some extra charge! (For this – I think they would be better to be at least 32 Amp – 40 Amps delivery, but even at 20 Amps – if you can’t DC QC on your car – you can travel the same routes!)

Uh . . . so can SAE-CCS handle 150KW or 240+KW?!?!

It doesn’t matter even if charger is 1000000kW capable if the car cannot handle it. In case of Leaf, it slows down very quickly. Once it gets to ~88%, it’s down to 6kW, slower than L2. Those who get it free don’t care that it’s slower than L2 and that they’re making other people wait.

Since it’s free, there are those who plug in to fast charger even when the car already has 85%, and reach 2kW charging speed using fast charger! Yes, this has happened many times.

Certainly the current generation of cars (with the exception of Tesla), can’t handle such fast charging. But future cars will be able to. So it is wise for them to plan ahead.

Current Leaf will be around in substantial numbers for at least 10 more years, even if Nissan discontinue it today. Then their slow charging problem will also be around.

Planning for the future may not be so easy with 3 different fast chargers. I think Tesla is best speed, but CCS is better form factor (combined L2+fast about size of gas cap door), but Chademo most available. How to converge? No one’s talking.

I dont know what you call substantial, but in every Europe country except norway they are below 10.000 Leafs. For example Germany: 3 Million cars sold per year, but below 2000 Leaf sold/year.

If you look 10 years ahead, you can buy EVs with 300 miles range for a price around 20k$. The few remaining Leafs with a remaining range of 30 miles (MY 2012/2013) or 50 miles (MY 2014/2015) will be dumped soon.