Faraday Future / LG Chem Working Together On “Highest Energy Density Cell For Production Automotive Battery”

OCT 4 2016 BY ERIC LOVEDAY 51

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Faraday Future and LG Chem jointly announced a tie-up that we knew was in the making several weeks ago.

Though the press release is rather vague, the two companies promise to together deliver the “highest energy density cell for automotive production battery” ever. That’s a bold claim, but no figures were released, so we have no clue just how high the energy density will be. Here’s the statement form the press release:

“The partnership also represents a joint commitment between both companies to collaborate on the development of EV battery technology, resulting in the world’s highest energy density for a production automotive battery.”

These cells will be put to use in Faraday’s upcoming  electric car, will which use FF’s “VPA platform, the company’s universal and scalable modular battery structure.”

The rest of the press release is equally vague. You can read it in its entirety below:

Faraday Future Announces Supply Agreement with LG Chem

Los Angeles, October 3rd, 2016 – Faraday Future today announced a partnership with LG Chem, the leading manufacturer of advanced battery systems, to supply lithium-ion cells for FF’s electric vehicles.

The partnership also represents a joint commitment between both companies to collaborate on the development of EV battery technology, resulting in the world’s highest energy density for a production automotive battery. These cells will be incorporated into Faraday Future’s VPA platform, the company’s universal and scalable modular battery structure. The VPA platform is a critical component to Faraday Future’s future product portfolio.

“LG Chem worked closely with Faraday Future to develop a tailored cell chemistry to optimize the range and safety of our mass production battery hardware,” said Tom Wessner, VP of Global Supply Chain, Faraday Future. “At FF, we are working with world-class suppliers to advance our technological innovations, and we look forward to our relationship with LG Chem as we push towards our vision of future mobility.”

“As a leading supplier of automotive cells and batteries, we are proud to work alongside Faraday Future as we work together to create the next generation of electric vehicles,” said UB Lee, the President of Energy Solution Company, LG Chem. “Our progress so far represents a major step forward in battery technology, and we look forward to growing our partnership and co-developing hardware into the future.”

With a customer base of more than 20 global automakers, LG Chem’s leadership in the EV space makes it a strong partner for Faraday Future as both companies build towards the future of EV mobility.

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51 Comments on "Faraday Future / LG Chem Working Together On “Highest Energy Density Cell For Production Automotive Battery”"

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LG Chem is really picking up business! Panasonic hitched their trailer up to Tesla which made them the biggest manufacturer for now but LG is revving up now. I wonder if Panasonic has non-compete clause with Tesla so that they can’t sell to other car manufacturers, that could turn out problematic in the future.

Has anyone done the math? I was thinking LG may make more kWh than Panasonic currently, due to all their contracts.

Hmm but I forgot about the powerwall/powerpacks, which may put Panasonic ahead.

Maybe we could get Jay to track the production numbers from the big battery makers?

Shouldn’t be too tough. It would be easy to work into his free time. You know, 3AM to 5AM. *grin*

The EV-sales blog keeps track of that, and is regularly quoted in most EV sites (including here):
The info as of H1 2016:
http://ev-sales.blogspot.co.il/2016/07/batteries-june-2016.html

Other, yearly, reports of the top EV battery vendors:
http://ev-sales.blogspot.co.il/search/label/Batteries

Sorry, I should have been clearer that I was just using his post as an opportunity to make a snarky joke about poor Jay’s “overtime” work hours.

But those are indeed nice links. Thanks for posting them.

…I know there is a pithy comeback to be had here somewhere, but I’m too tired to think of something, (=

Looks like Panasonic is way ahead. I didn’t realize they supplied batteries for so many other autos besides Tesla. Interesting that the Fusion Energi uses LG, but the Cmax Energi uses Panasonic.

Yup. Tesla is not Panasonic’s only customer for PEV (Plug-in EV) batteries, but it’s by far the biggest.

And Panasonic is still far out ahead of LG Chem in production, somewhere around 2-1/2 times as many kWh, as reported not so long ago in another InsideEVs article:

http://insideevs.com/ev-lithium-ion-battery-suppliers-outlook-h1-2016/

A lot of people have asserted that LG Chem could ramp up supply as fast as Tesla/Panasonic, even with the Gigafactory. Perhaps so, but the data here indicates that for whatever reason, LG Chem simply isn’t doing so.

I wonder if there’s confirmation on cell format, for the 80MWh ESS Tesla is contracting with California?

Tesla has their existing production equipment configured for 18650’s. Rumor has it that most of the Tesla Energy products use cells from Samsung SDI. The cell parameters are different than what Tesla specifies for automotive use. There was a post on one of these sites that cited container-loads of Samsung Cells imported by Tesla through the Port of Oakland.

They Got Nothing and are F O S.. What’s the Big Deal here?? They Partnered Up ? Competition is good ., but, NOBODY Really Cares about Fake Faraday ….what a Sh*tty name tooooo.

“the DEVELOPMENT of EV battery technology, resulting in the world’s highest energy density for a production automotive battery.” (emphasis added)

Sufficiently high enough density at a modest price and available now will always be a better solution for mass production cars instead of “Highest XXXXX” that is still under development.

They should just go with batteries that are proven, common, cost-effective, and available today, and build a car based on those and get it to market.

Then they can work on better batteries for a GEN II.

This is the kind of thing that gets these guys nicknamed “Faraway Future”. Like their concept car they introduced…

Dont know why people think FF is not real…

You dont hire all the people they have hired or sign a billion dollar battery contract with LG if you are not 100% legitamate and 100% commited and funded…

Faraway Future?? In general it can take an established auto maker 5 years to take a car from a thought to production…
A company like GM can do it faster with the Bolt but that is not how they want to operate…

I didn’t say they weren’t real.

They are real the same way VW/Audi is real.

Both have the same problem of people not having confidence in them getting their concept cars actually into production and into the hands of consumers any time soon.

This is a story about how they are DEVELOPING a battery. Not a story about how they have a battery ready for production, or that they have a battery that already beats other batteries. And battery innovations have had a very, very poor track record over the last decade. Existing battery evolution has provided the vast majority of battery improvements.

None of the miracle 10X battery improvements talked about half a decade ago or more have made it into production EV’s yet. So if they are developing a significantly new battery with a substantial market advantage, I don’t see any reason to expect it would be ready anytime soon.

If you think I’m wrong about battery advancements, please name the battery innovation, and the EV it is installed in that is for sale right now today.

Sorry, but they might as well be talking about super capacitors….

I actually gave them too much credit in my last post. I implied that they were already working on developing this future battery.

But reading the press release, it looks like they may have only signed letters of intent with LG to start sometime in the future to begin a collaboration to develop a new EV battery:

“joint commitment between both companies to collaborate on the development of EV battery technology”

Nothing there implies that they have actually started development work. It actually implies the opposite. That they didn’t have an agreement to begin work before, and that they have only now agreed to begin collaborating on developing such a battery.

The Model X was delayed for longer than Faraday Future has been in existence.

FF still hasn’t built a car yet either. Call me when they’ve made their first sale, then we can compare.

Lot you know. They are testing their car now out on public roads. There are spy shots of it already.

AlphaEdge — That’s a test mule, not a production car. Tesla Model X drivetrain test mules were spotted as far back as late 2013/early 2014.

What’s your point?

Thank the Falcon Wing Door suppliers for that! They took the contact On to design & build them ,with No Clue of what they were Doing! It was all Their fault!

@Yogurt said:
Dont know why people think FF is not real…
Hmm..perhaps because they have synapses that actually fire on occasion.

Yogurt said:

“Faraway Future?? In general it can take an established auto maker 5 years to take a car from a thought to production…”

Yes, which is why FF claiming, in their first press release, that they would start mass producing a car within two years of the original announcement — even before they broke ground on a factory — was ridiculous. And this most recent claim is only slightly less ridiculous, for reasons noted in previous comments here.

As Nix already observed, the likelihood is that all FF has done with LG Chem is sign a letter of intent — not an actual contract for delivery of batteries in quantity. It’s unlikely that LG Chem would agree to commit a significant portion of its output to a vaporware company like FF.

Perhaps FF will surprise me, and I think most other industry observers, and actually produce a compelling PEV (Plug-in EV) that sells in large numbers. But whoever is in charge of the company appears to be pretty clueless.

Somehow, Pushmi-Pullyu is going to try to spin this announcement as further proof that Faraday Future is a scam. But he never explains who exactly they’re scamming or just how this scam works. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

I see my online stalker is trying to put false words in my mouth again. I have never, ever claimed that there is “proof” that Faraday Future is a scam. That would be making an accusation without facts to back it up, not to mention it would be libel. That’s the kind of tactics you use, sven; not me.

And as I noted in a comment recently, an article at electrek.com published a photo of an SUV which they claim is a FF prototype or test mule. If that turns out to be true, then FF would look much, much less like a scam.

But as Nix noted above, FF is still making outlandish claims, like the one in the article here; claims which definitely don’t give reasonable people any confidence that those in charge of this company have a clue.

Speaking of clueless: Since you’re a stock investor, I’d think you would already know the type of scam that Faraday Future resembles. But if you really need help:

https://www.google.com/#q=high+tech+startup+investment+scams

They’re scamming themselves & their investors , because they will never get off the ground…

Hi Sven –

ON an unrelated note, do you know anything about the upcoming supposed $2000 NYS tax credit? At the drive electric event in Ithaca a few weeks ago, they said that implementation was going to be only 1 or 2 weeks away.

I can’t find anything online except for a vague reference from the Sierra Club.

It will actually be a point-of-sale rebate, not a tax credit.

There’s been no official announcement yet of when the program begins. The New York State Energy Research and Development Authority (NYSERDA) will develop and administer the rebate program. The budget agreement passed by the state legislature creating and funding the rebate program passed in April 2016. It mandates that the the program will start “within one year,” which means that the rebate program must start no later than April, 2017, but in effect will probably start this year to make Governor Cuomo and his fellow politicians look good in the eyes of voters.

Go to this website an click on NYS in the map: www (dot) afdc (dot) energy (dot) gov/laws/state

Then click on the rebate program link to get you to this webpage:
http://www.afdc.energy.gov/laws/11689

http://content.sierraclub.org/press-releases/2016/03/new-york-state-budget-includes-new-consumer-electric-vehicle-rebate

I believe that Governor Cuomo’s Pressroom (press releases) and NYSERDA’s website (since its administering the rebate program) will be the first places where news/details of the rebate program will be officially announced. You might want to bookmark and check these pages for the latest info if you’re planning to buy another EV to replace your Volt.

http://www.governor.ny.gov/news

https://www.nyserda.ny.gov/About/Newsroom/2016-Announcements

A quick search of the NYSERDA website by typing in “EV rebate” in the search box lead to an August 1, 2016 report with some info on the rebate titled “Clean Energy Fund Investment Plan.” It’s a point-of-sale rebate program that’s currently expected to end in 2020 (per footnote #2 on report page 13, pdf page 14), but as of 8/1/16 the program details are “still under development” (ie: who’s eligible, size of battery, etc.), and the implementation contractor was not yet hired. The most relevant info is found page 7 of the report (page 8 of the PDF) in the Activities section. It states the following: “Administer EV Rebate Program” “- NYSERDA will administer an EV rebate program that offers consumer rebates for ZEVs at the point of sale. Per New York State legislation instructing NYSERDA to implement a rebate program, the incentives will be up to $2,000 per vehicle. The details of the program are still under development, however the program is anticipated to have a similar structure to incentive programs in other states, with incentive levels varying based on the electric range of the vehicle. The program will be monitored and adjusted based on evolving market conditions.… Read more »

Here’s a pic and some more info on Faraday Future’s VPA platform, the company’s universal and scalable modular battery structure that will support the development of a range of vehicles.

“VPA is based on a modular, compact block of battery cells (modules). These battery blocks are assembled into groups of six and arranged into strings, which are then laid into the chassis floor. By adding or removing a battery string, FF can adjust a vehicle’s size, shape, weight, power output, and travel range.”

Pic of VPA platform:
http://bioage.typepad.com/.a/6a00d8341c4fbe53ef01b8d2252d60970c-popup

I actually really like how that goes together.

Hopefully they make it happen, and soon!

The more the merrier!

That’s nothing more than a variation on Chris Borroni-Bird’s late 1990’s skateboard design that was eventually used for GM’s AUTOnomy chassis. GM patented not only scaling the skateboard to different battery sizes and chassis lengths but also plugging in fuel cells too.

That’s 15-20 year old technology. What is special about this vs. the scaleable battery and power source AUTOmony skateboard chassis?

There is nothing truly special about it other thanthey wll use it in a production vehicle…
There are very few new designs in the auto industry as prety much everything that hasnt been done before in production has probably been a previous concept…
The hybrid setup Toyota uses in the Prius was orginaly developed by TRW in the 60s…
That does not mean Toyota should not create and sell the Prius or that it is npt an excellent car…

Its actually a pretty slick module design if you know what your looking at. It will be the next benchmark in the industry.

Uh . . . is it going to be safe? We all want energy density but everything is a trade-off in engineering.

I dont think a multi billion dollar company like LG would open themselves up to lawsuits…
So yes it will be safe…

As safe as a Samsung Galaxy S7 smartphone? I don’t think Samsung, a multi-billion dollar company, intentionally opened themselves up to lawsuits, but they will certainly be sued.

I guess you got me but I would hope there is a whole nother level of safety and quality checks for cars than phones…

If hopes and wishes were loaves and fishes, we’d all be performing miracles… and yes, he did get you, no guessing needed.

Anyway I agree with the general sentiment that batteries should be safe, but what about when you leave your exploding phone in your car, which has happened.

I didn’t think LG Chem made any 18650 batteries (seen in tweeted photo). There is no mention of the format on their site. We have been playing with the latest LG chem batteries used in the plug in Kias/Hyundais and we’re able to pull over 700 Amps out of a single pouch. Good stuff.

from your link:

“What makes their battery special?

Really not much, just the fact that it uses the best technology currently available in Planet Earth. It’s not martian’s high tech.”

“The modules use multiple 18650 cylindrical cells connected in parallel, each with 3.500 mAh. These cells were introduced last year by Sanyo/Panasonic, LG Chem and Samsung SDI.”

Is that what they are over-hyping? That they are planning on using year old 18650 commodity cells for some future car with no release date?

What is the point of this link?

To show that LG makes 18650s…
And these are probably not what FF would use…

What is the point in trolling??

Bobcats in the desert.

forgot the pic:

How do you spell “vapor battery”?

What are the guesses for energy densitiy? And what energy density do they aim for? Wh/liter or Wh/kg.

If they go for a sporty drive Wh/kg is more important, if they go for a big battery Wh/liter is more important. I assume they get their battery to have highest Wh/kg and average to high Wh/liter.

Currently high figures (for cells) are around:
270 Wh/kg
700 Wh/l
I assume they go as high as:
500 Wh/kg
1.200 Wh/l
as those numbers are within reach according to the MIT (https://electrek.co/2016/08/19/mit-startup-breakthrough-holy-grail-batteries-doubles-energy-density/)

general info regarding energy density evolution: https://www.quora.com/Is-there-an-updated-Li-ion-battery-energy-density-projection-graph

But makers of PEVs (Plug-in EVs) don’t choose batteries based on the highest available energy density or power density. They choose them on the basis of the cheapest per-kWh price they can get for batteries which have the minimum energy or power density which they need.

For those who actually have some understanding of EV engineering, FF’s claim that they are going to use the “highest energy density cell for automotive production battery” is just another in a string of announcements from FF that make them appear clueless; that makes it look like FF will never get past the vaporware stage.

FF does not have the intention to deliver an actual product. Their announcements are a smoke curtain for money laundry. That is what I still think. The scam will be uncovered in the upcoming economic downturn