EV Charging Adapter Wars: Which Side Are You On?


The sign clearly states “Tesla Electric Vehicle Parking”. Is it OK to charge an electric vehicle from another manufacturer there?

A few weeks ago, we published an Op-Ed post by InsideEV’s reader Brian R on a new adapter available which will allow non-Tesla electric vehicles to charge at Tesla Destination charging stations.

Brian was happy to report that the JDapter Stub, made by Quick Charge Power, allows him to charge his Chevrolet Bolt at any of the thousands of Tesla Destination charging stations across the US. He wrote this about his first experience using the adapter:

JDapter Stub

“Upon arriving at the Refuge Inn in my Bolt EV, I found the Tesla station in the parking lot of the property. I whipped out my Stub, connected it to the Tesla charging plug, then plugged it into my Bolt. Within 2 seconds, my Bolt’s charging light turned green and I was sucking down juice in part thanks to Elon Musk/Tesla (Thanks Elon!)”

Brian was correct in giving props to Elon Musk and Tesla because Tesla donates the equipment and in many cases, pays for the entire installation of these Destination chargers. The site host basically agrees only to maintain the equipment, and to provide the electricity needed. While a few OEMs like BMW and Nissan have made investments in public charging equipment, nobody has even come close to the hundreds of millions that Tesla has spent in charging infrastructure.

Some Tesla Destination locations have signage that simply states “Electric Car Charging Station”, with no reference to Tesla.

So the question is: Is it really OK to use an adapter to charge your non-Tesla EV on a Tesla Destination charging station? Some commenters on various EV sites and forums have argued that no, it’s not. Their point is that Tesla is really the only electric car manufacturer that’s actually concerned with their customer’s public charging needs. That everyone else looks at electricity for their customer’s electric cars like they look at providing gasoline or diesel; it’s not their responsibility. So why then should their customers benefit from Tesla’s extraordinary infrastructure effort? Also, is it fair to Tesla if their destination chargers are in use by a non-Tesla EV and a Tesla owner arrives to find out they cannot plug in?

However, there is another side to this, with a legitimate argument. Every Tesla sold comes with an adapter to allow Tesla vehicles to charge at charging station with the J1772 connector, and Tesla also sells a CHAdeMO connector for DC Fast charge stations. So, Tesla’s been doing this all along, the only difference is the vast majority of the public charging stations weren’t paid for by other car manufacturers, and the property owners as well as the managing networks aren’t aligned with any one, specific brand.

Some of the newer Destination Charging locations also include a ClipperCreek HCS-40 EVSE, perhaps to ensure the Tesla unit will be available for Tesla customers when they arrive.

To complicate things even more, Tesla has recently begun installing a ClipperCreek HCS-40 charging station next to the Tesla Wall Connector, at most Destination charging locations. So, is this Tesla’s way of saying that they are simply supporting the public charging of all EV makes, or are they doing this because they are concerned that other EV makes will be clogging up their Destination charging locations using adapters like the JDapter Stub? Perhaps a combination of both.

Ultimately, the decision of who can use the stations is up to the property management at each location. As far as I know, Tesla doesn’t require the stations to be kept available for Tesla vehicles. These stations are on private property, and once Tesla installs them they become the property of the owner of the location, so the rules will vary from property to property. For that reason, I highly recommend asking permission before you plug your EV, Tesla or not, into a Destination charger.

My BMW i3 using the JDapter Stub to charge at a Tesla Destination charging station.

The few times I’ve used my JDapter Stub, the management has been happy to allow me to plug in, even though I specifically told them that I do not have a Tesla. Personally, I think the vast majority of property owners won’t mind you plugging in, especially if you are patronizing their business, regardless of the make of your EV. But is this really what Tesla envisioned when they developed the Destination charging program?

Should Tesla Destination charging stations be utilized by non-Tesla electric vehicles? We’d like to know what the InsideEVs community thinks in the comment section below.

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159 Comments on "EV Charging Adapter Wars: Which Side Are You On?"

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If the Tesla charger is the only convenient option and I need a charge, too bad so sad, I’m taking it!

Unless it’s “PAY PER CHARGE” This is out right Theft..”I’LL TAKE IT” is stealing ! Not only are you cutting in on Legit Tesla Owners ,in the case of full capacity , You’re STEALING ! Last time I checked Stealing is against all Laws! If you get stuck & have an emergency ,that would be acceptable , To make a Habit of it is “Hi-way Robbery”. “Automatic Free Charging” Without Rights. I hope you sleep Good at Night! Cheers!

(⌐■_■) Trollnonymous

It’s only stealing if you get caught.

Yea Really..lol….Just Wall street Bankers. Don’t get caught & it’s Legal !… l m a o

+1 – yeah come on. Tesla has created this charging network as a perk for Tesla owners. It is a huge selling point for the brand. They caught the other brands sleeping and now they have the largest and most complete charging system. To pirate a charge is unethical if not illegal. It is theft. If you want to use Tesla Chargers buy a Tesla. It is equivalent to pulling up to a gas station in the middle of the night and pumping gas into your tank from the storage tanks under ground. Yeah you have a pump, yeah you can take the lids off. yeah you can get free gas , yeah it is STEALING..

There is no pirating, there is no “stealing”. Tesla provided equipment for free to all the property owners. The equipment no longer belongs to Tesla and Tesla has no say in how it is used. It’s only stealing if someone charges their car (Tesla or not) without permission because it is the property owner that pays the electric bill and maintains the station.

Tesla should simply be allowed to post a sign that says- “Charging equipment provided by Tesla” so they can get some PR. It’s all up to the property owners on how this gear is used, so if a guy with a Tesla shows up and all the stations are clogged with Leafs, Bolts, i3s and whatever, tough luck. That’s life on the EV highway.

“It is equivalent to pulling up to a gas station in the middle of the night and pumping gas into your tank from the storage tanks under ground.”

It’s not even remotely like that.

Gas stations are in the business of selling gas. Hotels, restaurants, and shopping malls which install destination chargers do so to attract more customers, not to make a profit off them. Whether or not that destination charger has a “Tesla” logo on it is pretty irrelevant.

Tesla very obviously sees Destination Chargers as separate from their Supercharger network. Those writing comments here which treat Superchargers and Destination Chargers as the same thing — including yours, Sans Ice — should take note. Tesla doesn’t agree with you.

“Tesla created this charging station” – yes.
“as a perk for Tesla owners” – maybe. Or as a perk for all EV owners.

Did you forget that Tesla’s standard is open sourced? No law is being broken by creating the adapter. No law is being broken by using the adapter. And as far as I can tell, no contract is being broken by using the adapter.

The only caveat would be getting the permission of the property owner, if for some reason they feel that they only want to promote and support Tesla owners to the exclusion of other EVs.

You typing STEALING in all caps doesn’t make it so. Sorry.


The whole problem is “free” charging. Electricity is not free anywhere or at any time. The cost to provide it needs to be charged to the user or everything becomes distorted.

The idea of specific charging stations for specific brands is nothing short of ridiculous (you don’t go to a Ford, GM or Nissan, etc., etc. gasoline station!!!).

It may have been necessary in the beginning at least for tesla because they were (still are) out front of everyone else and you basically were paying for the free electricity in the price of the car.

But long term the away from your home charging, charging infrastructure needs to work like gasoline stations; all cars can go to all “stations” and pay for the electricity they use per unit of energy, as in $o.xx per kwh.

Unlike gasoline electricity cost will have to vary depending on the time of day and the day of the week so as to not overload the electric grid as the number of EVs grows. Electricity price for EV charging will also vary more by location than gasoline does simply because the cost of electricity already varies a lot regionally.

Destination chargers aren’t “free”, they are an included amenity with your purchase of overnight lodging. Just like use of the Jacuzzi (also energy intensive), or the workout equipment, etc.

So stealing is OK if it’s an emergency?

Stealing is not OK in an emergency. But depending on circumstances I might understand the thief and wouldn’t necessarily go into an arguement with him.

No, stealing is ok when it’s not actually stealing.

You are so wrong your post shines brightly. Tesla chargers become the property of the business, which also pays for the power. If I show up and the J1772 is busy, I can use the Tesla one. If a Tesla shows up and a Tesla is charging, the Tesla can use the J1772. Where is the crime? A business attracts customers with the chargers. I am sure they rather have my business than me go away while the Tesla charger goes unused!

Completely agree.
I will be installing tesla charging stations on my casino and restaurant property soon. Tesla offered to pay for installation and equipment for one J1772 EV charger if I allowed 3 Tesla chargers on my property. I’m giving up 4 parking spaces and paying for electricity. It was clear that it was up to the facility owner to decide who parks there.
Musk has said it before. He wants all auto manufactures to go electric. Musk has open sourced most of Tesla’s patents.

@Tim Miser said: “If the Tesla charger is the only convenient option…I’m taking it!”

Having access to a convenient & reliable charging network (home charging, highway supercharging, suburban supercharging, & destination charging) is a big part of the Tesla value proposition when purchasing a Tesla.

Non-Tesla owners seeking ways to tap into the quickly expanding Tesla charging network greatly benefits Tesla because Tesla is increasingly becomes equated with access to “convenience”… consumers highly value convenience. Some Non-Tesla EV owners plugging into Tesla Destination chargers may start considering making their next EV purchase a Tesla.

As long as the Hotel owner is OK with it, your sins will be absolved. Well, you might want to recite 3 Hail Elon’s…

We have 4 of those Destination chargers from Tesla. We are the one paying for the electricity.
So we deside what is ok and what is not.

We are happy to let all our customers with EV cars charge.

But still they have to ask us first at the front desk.

Thank you.

And if I understand correctly what it says in Tesla’s brochure for Tesla Destination Charger partners, you (or your company) paid for two of those chargers. Tesla says the first two are provided free, but beyond that the installer has to pay for the equipment. Installation fees seem to be negotiable, so you may have paid for some or all of the installation charges, too.

Again, Tesla is treating its Destination Chargers very differently from its Superchargers. That’s a distinction which several people posting here don’t seem to recognize.

Interestingly in Europe the situation is even more complicated. Since Teslas over here use Type 2 just like most other EVs Destination Chargers can be plugged in without an adapter.
However not all Destination Chargers will work this way, in fact Tesla provides both Tesla-only and open Destination Chargers. If I remember correctly they will usually install one mixed charger and if more than one charger is installed add Tesla-only ones. Note that despite having compatible plugs non of the Supercharger stalls work for other EVs

“Note that despite having compatible plugs non of the Supercharger stalls work for other EVs”

Good point. If Tesla wanted to block non-Tesla cars from being able to use Tesla brand destination chargers, they could do so.

The fact is that Tesla has intentionally designed its Destination Chargers so that non-Tesla cars can use them. Since Tesla itself enabled use of Destination Chargers by non-Tesla cars, it seems Tesla is a lot more generous and altruistic than a lot of people posting about this issue.

Tesla Superchargers should be reserved for use by Tesla car drivers. Contrariwise, destination chargers should be available to every EV driver, whether that charger has a “Tesla” logo on it or not.

I don’t see any reason to believe it is a fact that Tesla designed their destination chargers to be adaptable.

I’m not saying they are angry they are adaptable either. But it seems like their destination chargers were designed to work well with Teslas. Teslas were designed to work well with J1772. So naturally the Tesla AC charging system is similar to J1772. And thus adapting becomes possible for other cars.

Tesla has engineered its Superchargers to work only with Tesla cars. Even if you have a Tesla plug adapter, plugging a non-Tesla car into a Supercharger won’t get you any “juice”.

Tesla could have engineered its Destination Chargers to work that way also, but they didn’t.

I guess you think this was an oversight on Tesla’s part? Well, I think it was intentional.

It’s the property owner who decides who can or can’t use a destination charger, not the company making the charger! Even when that company is Tesla.

This is incorrect. Tesla did not intentionally design their destination EVSEs to be used by other EVs. In fact, all the evidence points to them not expecting other EVs to use destination EVSEs. That’s why they installed additional clipper creek EVSEs (and Tom is incorrect about this being something recent; they have always offered this option if the location owner wants it).

Tesla’s proprietary connector in the US was supposed to serve as physical access control. In Europe, they had to develop a special protocol for software access control. Most destination chargers in the US don’t have this access control simply because they pre-date the time that Tesla developed this. I expect that for Destination chargers installed going forward, Tesla will start using the same software block.

Why do you think Tesla’s connector is “proprietary”?


Where does that say their standard is no longer proprietary? Them announcing a open patent initiative doesn’t change the fact that the connector is not supported by any standards body nor is it openly developed, AKA it’s proprietary. So far there are zero other manufacturers that have used it either.

JakeY said:

“I expect that for Destination chargers installed going forward, Tesla will start using the same software block.”

Well, then, thank goodness you are not in charge of setting policy at Tesla.

Unlike you, I think Tesla was not clueless when they designed their Destination Chargers.

You are just assigning a false dichotomy: either Tesla does what you suggest or they are clueless. Neither has to be true.

The fact of the matter is that in Europe they have already implemented this software access control. The ratio used is 2:1 (2 Tesla dedicated chargers to 1 charger for all EVs). This is exactly the same ratio Tesla used for installing HWPCs vs Clipper Creek units. This ratio ensures that enough of the infrastructure (of which equipment and installation costs are borne by Tesla) is available for owners, while there are some available to other brands for goodwill/emergency usage.

Tesla simply didn’t expect adapters would catch on, and this remained true for 5 years since releasing the connector. Once this type of adapter becomes common (such that Tesla owners begin to commonly see other EVs charging using HPWCs), why would they not do what they have done already in Europe?


The North American and European Tesla HPWC share the same basic firmware, and also the same ability to select “TESLA” mode as well as “J1772” mode.

The electronic circuitry in JDapter Stub overrides the “TESLA” mode in the US, and I believe that it will do so in Europe, also.

I will be in Europe 5-18 November 2017, and I intend to test my theory.

Tony Williams
Quick Charge Power LLC
San Marcos, California USA

Tesla fanbois often point out that Tesla doesn’t have to or want to make a profit since it’s all about converting the world to EVs. Well in that case there shouldn’t be a problem with using Tesla charging points for non-Teslas, right?

Tesla set any resetrictions on the host business. Tesla rarely pays for installation and doesn’t pay for any of the ongoing costs like additional demand charges and the energy charge.

I think they see it as a cheap (<$1k) way to get their logo around and provide a cheap service to owners that reduces Supercharger use.

It’s simple. Tesla shouldn’t risk frustrating its own customers by having them be displaced by cars of makers who are less committed to electrification. Without discussing profit, it should be apparent why displacing Tesla owners is a bad idea. That said, I believe these destination units are among the least used of any [This was Maine’s solution, before only recently seeing Superchargers / supercharge.info ]

To be clear, Superchargers are not what these units are. They’re the “Inn” and other small-business Level 2 Alternating Current units, most could install at home (~30-60 miles of charge rate per hour). Not Fast-DC / DCFC.

(⌐■_■) Trollnonymous

“It’s simple. Tesla shouldn’t risk frustrating its own customers by having them be displaced by cars of makers who are less committed to electrification.”

I agree, but they, Tesla, should’ve put something in place to deter the use.
There’s a couple really easy ways.

1: Identify the maximum charging rate of the car plugged in. If it can’t do 10KW (40A) then it’s a high possibility it’s not a Tesla.

2: Identify if the plugged in car is a Tesla.

I’m starting to think the Dest/HPWC are more like the typical dummy EVSE’s.

The base Model 3 only does 32A.

I don’t really see that as a problem for Tesla. If a Hotel finds that their customers aren’t satisfied with the amount of chargers that are available, they will install more in order to satisfy the customers.

Let’s put this into proper perspective. Hotels offer ALL amenities in order to attract guests. Whether it is free wifi, a game room, room service, a pool, free parking, HBO, a mini bar, or a Destination Charger, it is all the same.

If the Hotel finds that they are attracting customers by including free EV charging overnight as part of the room charge, they will install more chargers. Especially if they find out that people decide NOT to stay at their hotel because there weren’t enough destination chargers available at their last stay.

That’s my stance. Just don’t wreck the charger, OK? I’d have an issue with this thing working on a Supecharger. That would be theft. The destination chargers are up to the owner of that charger.

Tesla built the charging infrastructure for Tesla vehicles.
If you’re charing there and a Tesla arrives, you should give up the spot, at least.

That should be true for Tesla Superchargers, but not for Tesla Destination Chargers.

For Destination Chargers, Tesla is just the installer. The charger becomes the property of the business owner after it’s installed. It’s the business owner who gets to decide who can or can’t use the destination charger, not Tesla or whatever company made it!

Tom, did you get another i3? Or is this the one you borrowed to test? Irex? I also picked up a new Protonic blue one last weekend.

If I were Tesla, I would have the EVSE recognize the EV. If it is a Model S or X, charge for free. Model 3, nominal fee. Other EVs, a phenomenal/I mean 3x nominal fee. Don’t want to deny a needed charge at this point of the game, but you shouldn’t expect to charge for free either.

These are the destination chargers. Tesla doesn’t pay for the electricity. That’s the host business. It’s less than $1k to get their logo in more places and provide a service to owners that means less Supercharger use.

You seem to have missed the point that these destination chargers are not the property of Tesla. They are the property of whoever owns or leases the land the destination charger sits on.

The charger is the property of the business, not the property of Tesla, and it’s the business who gets to say who can, or can’t, use the destination charger.

Let the Betamax vs. VHS wars begin, in the EV destination charging plug in free for all.

If you (non Tesla) are clogging up access for a Tesla, then the “first come first served” may need some adjustment, depending on Level 2 charging availability in the surrounding area.

There is no side. The adapter is perfectly legal and should be used in the manner that the owner of the charging station allows.

Say it’s a hotel or B&B, and the owner restricts the charging station to Tesla only, well that’s less customers for them (stupid), but that’s their choice.

Yup, let the market take care of this one.

As long as any adapter that is used meets safety standards and doesn’t cause any damage, I can’t see why it would be anybody’s business but the business owner’s.

Agreed, but try telling that to an “entitled” Tesla owner.

Tesla owners have no problem using the Tesla-to-CHAdeMO adapter, so they should not have a problem with non-Tesla owners using an adapter charge at Tesla destination stations. Plus they still have their 100% exclusive Supercharger network.

I’ve found a lot of the Clipper Creek units installed next to Tesla stations are of the 30 amp variety. Using the Jdapter Stub, I can get a full 32 amps plugging my Bolt into a Tesla stations via the Stub. So one more minor benefit of using the Tesla station instead of the Clipper Creek units.

P.S. Tom, thanks for you (or one of your admins) banning me from the Bolt owners Facebook group. That spurred me to start the REAL Bolt owners/fans group, where people are thanking me for starting a group that has actual Bolt owners and not a bunch of non-owners that will never buy a Bolt that are bored waiting for their Model 3.

@bro1999 said: ” …I can get a full 32 amps plugging my Bolt into a Tesla stations via the Stub. So one more minor benefit of using the Tesla station instead of the Clipper Creek units…”

Lol… a devout and vocal Tesla basher plugging his Bolt into a Tesla Destination Charger… perfect!

Bro, please leave that complaining about your experience on Facebook off here.

LOL, MadBro banned for his histrionics-what a concept!

(doing my best Cartman impression) I do what I want! *head shake*

“(doing my best Cartman impression)”

That’s already implied with all of your posts about Tesla.

Let him keep repeating his “issue” about the FB group. At least we know he onto a viable solution to his past gripe!

(⌐■_■) Trollnonymous

“Tesla owners have no problem using the Tesla-to-CHAdeMO adapter, so they should not have a problem with non-Tesla owners using an adapter charge at Tesla destination stations.”

All Chad’s are pay per use. Your argument already fails there.

That said, and IMHO, if the adapter fits and works, then it’s on-like-DonkeyKong!!!

Of course by permission of the establishment.

That adapter is is pretty friggin expensive though. I wouldn’t buy one.
Props to you for getting one, trying it and reporting it out here!!!

Some Chad’s are indeed free. In my area there is a free one at a Nissan dealer and another couple at local Mom’s (organic grocery store) that are free. One of the Mom’s even provides a Tesla/Chad adapter for people to use.

For a while, Tesla abuse at the Nissan dealer caused them to padlock the charger, but that seems to have ceased.

(⌐■_■) Trollnonymous

“padlock the charger”

I don’t know any dealer who does not go to that extent. Can you really consider these Stealership Chad locations a reliable place to charge?
For one the gates close making them inaccessible.
Secon’d they always have their cars plugged into them not charging or just parked there. Are you going to ask them to unplug or move so you can plug in for Free????

I’ve seen many a Tesla owner use Nissan dealer CHAdeMO stations for free.

They are not all pay per use.

(⌐■_■) Trollnonymous

They’re also not ~Fast~ chargers. Most stealerships have neutered charge speeds down to sub 10KW. They do that for cost.

P.S. Tom, come on over and join the staff of inside evs. I hear they’re a little short staffed.



North American Plug-In Vehicle Writers/Specialists:

Tom Moloughney: Tom is a longtime EV advocate and has been driving electric since 2009. A former director at Plug in America, Tom currently works with dealerships to increase their plug in vehicle sales. Tom also owns commercial property in Montclair, NJ, and manages public charging stations that he installed there.

bro1999 banned from FaceBook for being a troll.

I’m shocked, SHOCKED I say! 😎

Tesla’s decision to use a proprietary connector was more about improving on available industry standards than attempting to exclude other manufacturers. Of course when providing equipment they would look to satisfy their own customers first, but if their cars can use adapters to charge at other charging stations I don’t see a reason why it shouldn’t be allowed the other way.

There is no theft of resources if a business owner chooses to provide free charging. Otherwise, they could have installed a pay-per-use unit instead. Now, if someone found a way to make an adapter that allowed free use of the Supercharger network, then I’m sure they’d be hearing from Tesla.

“if someone found a way to make an adapter that allowed free use of the Supercharger network”

Someone sort of has. Carguru’s salvage Tesla S is able to use Supercharger. Since Tesla doesn’t have his accounting info, he can’t get billed for using it. If he took the salvage guts of Tesla S and modified, that could allow any car to use supercharger for free.


If he made those for other people to use (selling them or giving them away), I strongly suspect Tesla’s legal department would slap him with a “Cease & Desist” letter so fast it would make his head spin, and would seek a court injunction if he didn’t stop immediately.

But then, the guy probably knows better than to “poke the bear”.

Interesting thing is that the VIN he give is for the donor car shell. The electronics VIN is from a different car. I’m looking forward to seeing if he gets anywhere with Tesla.

For those of you who think EVs will rule the world some day, this article explains why that won’t happen.

As long as no universal DC charging standard exists, EVs will remain novelties.

The mfr squabbling needs to be ended with legislation.

Yeah, just like gas stations having to carry several different fuels means that the ICE will never catch on. Too bad there’s no gasoline-to-diesel adapter.

Right, I don’t think it’s a valid criticism in that, it’s not all that hard to have a few adapters in your car.
People might be happier with universal one but there is clear evidence that people prefer evs, once they have them, they never go back to ice.

You’re ignoring the history of dispensing gas. Specifically, you’re ignoring that gas stations pretty much refused to start carrying unleaded gasoline until the government mandated that they do so. After that started, the switch from leaded to unleaded gasoline proceeded fairly rapidly.

Sadly, it looks like the government will have to step in again and mandate a true standard for EV charging, because the various EV manufacturers don’t seem to be moving towards establishing a universal standard themselves.

In Sweden the government mandated in the 90’s that all gas stations had to offer E85 (ethanol). Many smaller rural gas stations couldn’t cope with the costs so they had to shut down making the customers in these communities drive far longer to get gas. Ethanol never took off and now hardly anyone use it. It used to be that companies leased ethanol-compatible cars because of tax subsidies but then it turned out that they filled them with regular gas anyway because it was cheaper and less harmful to the engine (i.e. requiring less service). Another great failure by the socialists.

Sometimes government regulation is a good thing, and — as you relate — sometimes it’s a bad thing. A great deal depends on how well or how poorly it’s implemented.

My memory is fuzzy and it was a long time ago, but I think in the U.S., the “guvmint” mandated that gas stations with more than X number of pumps had to devote at least one to unleaded gasoline. If that’s right, then that let the smaller stations delay switching to unleaded until that switch made sense for them.

You forgot about the Diesel to E85 adapter.
and the gas to E85 adapter.

Then there’s the 89 to 95 octane adapter.

Yeah gas stations are easy.

If you are stupid enough to put diesel into a gas car or gas into a diesel car you have an expensive problem if you don’t realize before driving off the forecourt.

The switch from leaded to unleaded gasoline was made “idiot-proof” by using different dispensing nozzles, and the tube to insert the nozzle for unleaded gasoline was made smaller on all cars, so you literally could not insert a leaded gas nozzle into a filling tube for a car that took only unleaded gasoline.

My first car was a Honda Civic CVCC, engineered to accept either fuel. Switching from leaded to unleaded gasoline, we were warned, would free up a bunch of crud in the fuel feed system, which could gum up the motor. So I had to be careful never to put leaded gasoline in the car, even though the fill tube would have accepted it.

Yes, somehow cars managed to catch on, even with different fuels (gasoline and diesel, propane, Natural Gas, methanol, etc). Heck, even airplanes have MoGas, 80 octane, 100 Low Lead, and Jet-A.

California did try to regulate the charge plug in the late 1990’s. Let’s just say that didn’t work out so well.

I don’t see government “solving” any perceived plug problem, but I can foresee government used as an eforecement tool to hinder competition. There were multiple attempts in Germany and the European Union to stop CHAdeMO (and Nissan), as well as the Tesla Supercharger (and Tesla).

While those attempts at outlawing the competition were largely unsuccessful, it’s a real eye opener how powerful the German auto makers are (particularly when these attempts were made when German auto makers really didn’t care about EVs at all).

I can assure that California will not attempt another regulation of charging plug protocols, and the Trump led US government is even less likely to do so.

My company is the manufacturer of JDpater Stub.

Tony Williams
Quick Charge Power LLC
1780-104 La Costa Meadows Drive
San Marcos, California 92078 USA
Twitter: QCPower
1-760-798-0342 Office

(⌐■_■) Trollnonymous

Any other adapters in the works for you guys T-Dub????

Tony, are you still working on the JDapter that is still being advertised on this website? When I click on the ad, it just says that the Kickstarter is delayed due to video release. If it is DOA, maybe you could change your ad to a product that you are actually making.

We will get that updated soon… so many projects!

Fuel stations have three or more different fuels that must be stored in separate tanks. It’s not a problem. There are many DC chargers have 2 cables: CCS and CHAdeMO. It’s _easier_ for chargers than fuel filling stations because it’s all electricity to the charger and the rest is just contacts, cabling and programming. More important than a single standard is to have manufacturers invested in selling BEVs in large numbers. If Tesla’s Supercharging sites cost $150k and Tesla allocates $500 per car* towards new sites , they could build a new site for every 300 cars sold. If Tesla can sell 10,000 cars per month in the USA, that would mean 400 new Supercharger sites per year. To put that in perspective Tesla currently has 428 open US Supercharger locations and that has already provided coverage that allows a lot of travel. Including the sites Tesla has listed as “Coming Soon” on its website is a total of 914 and that would give complete coverage of the US Interstate Network in the Lower 48 even though many of the planned sites are to increase capacity in densely pouplated areas. Continue at a rate of 400 sites per year they… Read more »

Tesla owners pick to places to stay because Tesla supported their establishment and provided them a Tesla destination charger. Tesla owners expect when they stay there that they will be able to use the Tesla charger. It is a different argument if it is an emergency charge vs a convenient one IMO (i.e. chademo adapter)

Tesla owner support Tesla because they are advancing EVs in multiple ways including spending funds on a charging infrastructure. Other companies are doing very little by comparison. GM, for one, has done virtually nothing and wants to ride the coattails.

Don’t forget, most places have 1 Tesla destination charger, so if two Tesla owners go there at the same time, one has to wait. You can’t drive an EV and just assume you will be able to charge. At the moment the ratio of chargers to cars is too low, and the time on L2 for a charge is too slow, for that.

If there are no more charging stalls available when I plug up, I always leave a sign on my dash letting folks know when it’s OK to unplug my car and I also provide my cell number should they want to text me.

There is nothing wrong with convenience or opportunity charging. As long as we all act responsibly it’ll work out just fine.

Really, you say it’s different when a Tesla wants to use a Nissan-installed charger than vice-versa.

Color me shocked.

For stations put in at hotels Tesla doesn’t own them. And you don’t either. So why you expect you should be able to keep other drivers out by dictat I don’t know.

A video explanation: $250

Unfortunately, it’s not $250, it’s $399. At $250 I could probably justify getting one, I can’t see myself needing one that much to spend $400 on one though.

That works for me, just ordered one.

I have the adapter too. I have a old used 2012 Tesla S85 and another electric. Elon want to encourage all electric vehicles. So the j-1772 allows all plug in vehicles to charge. It’s good for everyone.

Until a few years ago, you got a free basic model wall-box if buying a Zoe (better ones mentioned in a short list if you pay the difference). Nobody’s asking because of that?! Of course it’s cheaper, but the Zoe too, so in percent, the difference is probably small.
-> In effect, it’s some sort of discount on the car.

Tesla can say “Pay for the energy” (in the meantime the do for new customer). I think nobody would have a problem if non-Tesla vehicles have to pay more.

Tesla even opened their patents for usage by others (under unclear conditions).

And I don’t know any gas station founded by car manufacturers.
-> So that are completely independent businesses.


So Tom, are you getting Tesla destination stations at Nauna’s? 🙂

Those pesky Tesla drivers trying to plug into the CCS would be happy 🙂

(⌐■_■) Trollnonymous

“Those pesky Tesla drivers trying to plug into the CCS”

That’s not even possible.

Anything is possible with a big enough hammer! 🙂

“…Some Tesla Destination locations have signage that simply states “Electric Car Charging Station”, with no reference to Tesla….”

Well that’s perfectly fine – Tesla thinks they’re the only REAL car company to begin with anyway. Don’t know what they call those funny GM things.

Hehehe Tom I think you realize you’re just trying to ruffle feathers on a slow-news-month, seeing as the owner of the establishment was given the wallboxes, and has the responsibility of maintaining them and their increased electric bill.

So its up to the owner really to decide – the car driver of course legally has no say.

Now whether it is MORALLY right for a Non-Tesla to be there, I say that since I paid $120,000 for a ROADSTER to help get Tesla off the ground in the first place, this gives me and my friends privledged access to all Tesla Destination stations in perpetuity.

So There.

As far as the connectors go going forward, the most cost-effective connector will win.

The only cost effective connectors in the states are Tesla’s and CCS (type 1).

Chademo is at a disadvantage since it cannot also be used for home charging, besides being more expensive to begin with.

Since the CCS-1 is standardized amoungst many car manufacturers – rightly or wrongly it is destined to be the winner. Connector on the car is dirt cheap. If you don’t have fast charging, you just have the home charger jack which you have to have anyway.

The CCS adder only adds 2 dc pins and a locking mechanism… Dirt cheap which is why all American Manufacturers have flocked to it.

At least in SoCal, there are more Chademo than CCS where third the sites would have dedicated Chademo plus dual handle. Frankly, I was tempted to donate “billions of dollars” to QuickChargePower to come up with Chademo for SparkEV after the frustration of all the CCS taken up by free charging Bolts.

Donate Billions huh? Well, as they say, whether you’re rich or poor its nice to have money. The bright side of that is that not everyone can do a given job, so that gives an employee some satisfaction that since he is paid for it, not everyone can do his job.

Yes, billions of dollars in I O U, to be paid when an ounce of gold is worth billions of dollars. Either that or in old Zimbabwe dollars, which the US dollar is strongly trying to emulate.

I am on Teslas side and the decision they made…
Tesla was not born yesterday and did not lock down their destination chargers to only Tesla models for a reason…
That reason is that Tesla allows and wants all other EVs to be able to charge with their destionation chargers…
Part of Tealas mission statement is to advance all EVs and not just Tesla EVs…
This discussion is silly and is realy about greedy Tesla owners who disagree with Tesla policy and want it all for themselves…

And to the Tesla owner who thinks that this adapter shouldn’t be used, I ask this: if you got to a destination charger, and it was being used by another Tesla, but the Clipper Creak on was available, would you use your adapter and plug in to it, or would would you leave it available in case a non-Tesla showed up and need to charge? I seriously doubt that anyone would not plug in. First come first served.

Since the owner of the property is paying for the electricity, not Tesla, as long as the owner is OK with you plugging in, it’s fine to use it.

When Tesla was run by Martin Eberhard, he worked closely with SAE to develop a single standard for all electric vehicles. He truly wanted everyone to success and for mass EV adoption to be as simplified as possible.

Then Elon came in and did this sleeker connector that is now proprietary and yet another standard is born. It’s pretty unfortunate.

Imagine where we could be if Tesla used SAE, along with everyone else that didn’t use Chademo. Heck, everyone may have switched to SAE by now. Instead, we have three standards.

Until we’re down to 1 standard, I feel like EVs will be perceived as a noob crowd that doesn’t get mass market appeal. Luckily, the adoption rate has still been very impressive, I just feel like it could’ve been (and could be) a lot better with proper standardization.

A charge port should not be a differentiator on any EV. If it is, your product offering is not very compelling.

“When Tesla was run by Martin Eberhard, he worked closely with SAE to develop a single standard for all electric vehicles. He truly wanted everyone to success and for mass EV adoption to be as simplified as possible.

“Then Elon came in and did this sleeker connector that is now proprietary and yet another standard is born. It’s pretty unfortunate.”

Horse hockey. This had absolutely nothing to do with any difference in policy between Eberhard and Musk.

Tesla worked with the CCS consortium in an effort to produce a charging standard which would work for everyone, including Tesla with its higher power chargers for the Model S.

Tesla only pulled out and put their own proprietary charging cable on the Model S because the CCS consortium dragged its feet and didn’t come to an agreement before the time came to lock down the design of the Model S.

You’re talking about CCS, the other poster appears to be talking about J1772.

You’re correct, I’m referring to J1772.

Tesla Motors said at the time they didn’t want to be limited to the J1772’s 30 ampere limitation.

It would be bumped to 80 eventually, but I would have taken the 30. WOuld have saved me a lot of money and aggrevation with the roadster since I wouldn’t have needed a $750 plus tax adapter, plus the j1772’s don’t freeze solid all the time like the TSL-01.

Oops! 😳

Mea culpa, and thank you for the correction.

Note that the J1772 standard in place at that time was not the nice sleek round connector we have today.

It was the AVCON style:

Tesla was not excited by this plug, so they made their car follow J1772 signaling and pinout while implementing their own connector.

By the time the circular connector came out, the Model S was already shipping.


I guess my VOLT which came out in 2010 was imaginary since it had a round j1772 far before the “S”


The round plug that we know today as J1772 (Type 1 in Europe) was designed by Japanese company Yazaki.

The SAE didn’t adopt this (based on the AVCON signaling) until 2009, and the SAE spec was changed again in 2010 (80 amps in the USA).

But, Tesla had long since been shipping Roadsters. Certainly, Tesla could have adopted the J1772 inlet, however that would have required a second dedicated DC inlet.

The current Tesla inlet is about the size of the J1772-2009 inlet, while capable of 365 amps DC.

Honestly, I wish everybody would have adopted something similar to Type 2 in Europe, as Tesla uses for the Supercharger (using 2 of the pins for each DC polarity). That could have been used worldwide.


That’s not true at all. By the time the round connector came out the Roadster was already shipping. But the current round J1772 connector predates the Model S.

The Chevy Volt came out using the round J1772 connector in 2010. The Model S didn’t come out until 2012.

When a Tesla needs power they have first rights.
Non Tesla ok then.
However if Tesla shows up non Tesla disconnects and Tesla connects.
Due to rate of charging a destination charger can be clogged for hours by just one user and Tesla should always have priority.

So, if you are using the Clipper creek one with the adapter, and a non-Tesla shows up, would you unplug and let them charge?

I suspect that there will be an eventual fist fight over these issues, sadly.

Says who?

Good EV drivers leave a note … preferably with contact info.

Good EV drivers read the note, and ask before assuming things about other EV drivers.

Remember we all community … being nice to each other always helps.

We’ve only used a public 240 volt charge station once in three and a half months, at a hotel. There was a Tesla destination unit, and a Clipper Creek 40 amp unit. The Clipper Creek put in the full 7.68 kW that the onboard charger can take. I did like the little green light on the Tesla unit though.

Why don’t get a response from Tesla on the subject?

I could argue it either way.
At some point though, you have to consider that the charging station installed and paid for by Tesla is a “sunk cost” which is written down over several years. After that time, the value is essentially zero on Tesla’s books and the cost of upkeep and maintenance are being paid for by the property owner. I think at that point it is up to the property owner how they want to allow usage of the charger.

We already did get a response from Tesla, in the way they designed their chargers, as reported in comments above.

Tesla designed their Superchargers for use by Tesla cars only, but they designed their Destination Chargers to be used by any car with the right adapter.

“Which Side Are You On?” … it’s not about choosing sides … all BEVs need to charge. A host side with “destination charging” is a modern day oasis.

The “real issue” is the lack of usable EV infrastructure for all to acces; it’s, not about “choosing sides”.

Please InsideEVs … frame the conversation in a positive way and not in a way that creates feuding fractions.

Also the “war” part, aka “the circular firing squad” as eloquently framed by EVChels.


Bravo, sir! Well said.


I’m as tired of the Tesla vs. GM/others meme as I got tired of the Leaf vs. Volt meme. At least that one is finally dead.

The bottom line is that the property owner/manager also owns the EVSEs and pays for the power, so they make the decision. Tesla may have provided the destination charger for free, but they don’t control it once it’s installed.

Given that most property owners/managers wouldn’t know an EV even if it ran them over, I doubt many of them would differentiate between a Tesla & non-Tesla charging. But, if they do chose to put up a “Tesla Charging ONLY” sign, then it should be respected. In the mean time I’ll happily use my adapter when needed!

Prepare to be trolled.

Thank you, thank you, Tesla purists. Thanks for this definitive, dramatic proof of how right I was to purchase a PHEV instead of a BEV. I’ve enjoyed reading this BEV anger and spleen from my charging-optional sidelines.

The owner of the property gets to decided who can charge, since they are paying the electric bill and you’re parking on their property.

I know a few hotels with Tesla Destination charging stations only allow their customers using the chargers.

“EV Charging Adapter Wars: Which Side Are You On?”

I’m on the “side” of increased accessibility everywhere for all drivers of EVs, except for use of Tesla Superchargers, which should continued to be reserved for use by Tesla car owners only.

It really shocked me that so many posting to the previous article said that non-Tesla drivers shouldn’t be allowed to use Tesla destination chargers. Destination chargers are not intended for en-route charging, and Tesla doesn’t own the property or pay for the electricity.

There is no logical or ethical or even any business reason why hotels and restaurants and other property owners who host Tesla destination chargers should not be allowed to let any of their customers use a destination charger, even one with a “Tesla” logo on it!

(⌐■_■) Trollnonymous

Follow the money.
Where did Tesla get the funds to buy/make the EVSE’s? If they got the funds from their customers then their customers paid for the EVSE’s not the freegoers like what I would do……lol

The cat’s out the bag, those destination chargers are just plain EVSE’s. QCP/Tony Williams sales is probably through the roof now.

Let’s rephrase your argument:

You appear to be arguing that Tesla owners buy products from Tesla, therefore they ought to be able to dictate policy to Tesla.

Hey, I buy groceries from Wal*Mart; therefore I ought to be able to dictate to Wal*Mart how they run their grocery business. They should start by giving free groceries to everybody with my name.


No, wrong. Tesla can decide for itself whether to design its destination chargers to allow non-Tesla cars to charge there. And Tesla has already decided, in a manner rather less selfish than several people posting here.

(⌐■_■) Trollnonymous

aw well damn PuPu, if you put it that way….

You sound like Moss in Glengarry Glen Ross saying that that since he sold a lot of real estate in the past to generate revenue to generate the leads he should get the Glengarry leads.


If you don’t have an equity position you’re just a customer. They don’t owe you anything. Although it is nice if they show some appreciation you can’t demand it.

Anyway, I’m with Pushy. I’m for increased access for all EVs. And thus I feel that except in the case where Tesla is paying for the electricity or location (superchargers) then Tesla shouldn’t be able to restrict who can use the chargers.

Sorry, I mean Shelley “the Machine” Levene.

(⌐■_■) Trollnonymous

Why don’t other EV makers give free EVSE’s to destinations?????

“Tesla has recently begun installing a ClipperCreek HCS-40 charging station next to the Tesla Wall Connector, at most Destination charging locations”

I believe Tesla has been putting in Clipper Creeks since the beginning of the Destination Charger program.

Rather than get too wound up over whether “they” can use “our” chargers, my personal attitude is that if it puts one more EV on the road, I’m in favor. I think Musk probably would be too, since that’s always been his stated goal for Tesla.

A rough check of MD and VA indicates that the ratio of installed EVSEs is roughly 2 Tesla Wall Connectors to 1 Clipper Creek J1772. There are now new supercharger locations that also have a Clipper Creek installed.

They have not been doing it since the beginning.

The change isn’t terribly recent but there are plenty of early Tesla destination charger locations which only have Tesla destination chargers.

There was a time when the only public chargers available in the Lake Tahoe area were Model S/X Tesla destination chargers. No Superchargers. No Roadster chargers. No J1772s. The destination chargers were located at the South Shore hotels/casinos.

Yes. It is all about making EV’s a real solution to replace ICE cars.

And if you were to ask Musk, I’m sure he would say the same thing.

Firstly, Elon Musk is always on Twitter, why doesn’t someone with a Twitter account just ask his option about it, I’m sure he’d reply. Secondly, if your manufacturer is doing nothing to further EV adoption because they are not installing/supporting the installation of chargers, then buy a Tesla and send them a letter telling them the exact reasons why you didn’t buy their brand again. Tesla is clearly spending money to make it easier to use your EV where you want. Other manufacturers are clearly spending money only in certain areas that do not necessarily make it easier to use your EV where you want. Eg: Nissan has installed 1,000’s of CHAdeMO in their home country of Japan, but not really anywhere else. Eg: No Charge to Charge was introduced to combat the free charging Tesla owners get, which has just clogged the chargers with very slow charging vehicles (they seem to have forgotten that a) Tesla is really expensive so they can afford to pay this cost, b) Tesla charges significantly faster than other chargers). If the sign says Tesla charging only, then respect that is what it means, but by all means get permission from the venue. If… Read more »

In Europe Tesla uses Type2 as the only plug. All Tesla destination chargers can go in other vehicles with type2. Tesla has dedicated destination chargers for just Teslas an the same looking destination chargers for all EVs. The difference is just in firmware.

If you need to charge so badly that you will spend $400 on some BS adapter then, by all means, charge up! As an i3 owner, there is a conspicuous scarcity of EV chargers. Considering the shorter range of non-Tesla EV’s, more charging options that an adapter provides can help tremendously. With the exception of Tesla, a decent charging network is an unfulfilled promised by the automakers. As a Model X owner, I would like to have an adapter that would allow me to use SAE Combo chargers. Which, sadly, I cannot find and I don’t believe exists.


Why is the JDpater Stub “some BS adaptor”, but the SAE-CCS-Combo1 adaptor that you want is “sadly” something you can’t find?

By the way, you didn’t state what you wanted the CCS station to plug into.

It’s well past time to have a uniform standard.

And it should be illegal to sell a car without the standard port.

I like Tesla enough, but fracturing a small developing market that depends on infrastructure is terrible policy for our nation.

Yep, the charging standard wars don’t help EV adoption, that’s for sure.

But, who’s standard, with so many to chose from?

Sadly, our government would create a NEW standard that nobody wanted 😉

My two cents on this: This does not help the AC charging infrastructure growth. If other car manufacturers just rely on the Tesla destination chargers to provide infrastructure, there is no incentive for them to install their own version of the destination charging network.

Tesla alone simply can’t provide enough infrastructure to cover all brands. The destination chargers might not even be enough to cover Model 3 demand.

Without this type of adapter the way the infrastructure would grow is:
1) Third party chargers
2) Tesla destination chargers (2:1 ratio of Tesla-only to J1772)
3) other manufacturer’s AC charging infrastructure.

With this type of adapter, #1 and #2 would remain roughtly the same, but I forsee #3 being drastically reduce.

So what you end up with is overall there is less AC charging infrastructure, and not only will Tesla owners have to deal with extra congestion, everyone suffers.

In Montclair NJ there is a Parking Garage with 2 Tesla Destination EVSE’s and (1) Clipper Creek and the #EVsign at all 3 EVSE’s says that you must be charging but it does not specify that you need to have a particular brand of Vehicle. ProPark Garage.

And here’s a Video of Benswing Rich testing out this JDapter on my LEAF at this same location.

***mod edit (Jay Cole)***

The Instagram link was eaten by our filter when it was attempting to auto-embed, and we unfortunately misplaced it. Apologies on that…if you are around, feel free to report and we will try to not lose it this time.

***mod edit***

Yeah the place that I and a friend frequent in suburban Syracuse, NY has 2 Tesla Destination wall boxes and a 32 amp J1772 (200 volts).

The J1772 model is the only one I’ve ever seen being used – but its an upscale place so I imagine there have been a few “S”, and “X”‘s there also.

I usually only need 30 minutes or so, then I move the car out of the way.


Best EVSE in the world!

Obviously, a great question for a moral philosophy class!

I recently bought a fine $269 (+$20 shipping) 32 ampere wall box with convenient 23 foot j1772 jack (rated at 50 amperes!), as well as a decently long beefy Nema 14-50P to plug in to my existing 2 Tesla receptacles (I thought, just prior to owning a Tesla, that I would eventually have 2 of their vehicles simultaneously charging – this is why my garage is wired to a ‘Tesla Standard’ – which I use one for the BOLT ev, and the other for a home made 3hp Dual-Stage 240 volt snowblower conversion). But seeing as I also have a 16 amp $200 J1772 ‘charging cord’ plugged into an ‘air conditioner outlet’ (Nema 6-20), I can now quick charge 3 ev’s at once – as long as 1 of the 3 is only a volt or elr, or Ford.

Why is nobody stating the obvious here. Private Tesla plug charge stations are under no control of Tesla and its completely upto the owner.

However, the free superchargers are under complete control and communication with Tesla. Tesla can cut off any charging to any particular at will and I suspect also to any pirate plug stealing their investment and electricity.

Is it OK to use a a Tesla destination charger to charge a non-Tesla?

No. The fact that Tesla had to implement a Tesla-only mode for the new TWC’s installed a destination chargers should tell you their intent. And the fact that the adapter makers had to implement a “defeat device” to spoof the protocol should tell you theirs.

Just because you can forge a key, doesn’t mean it’s OK to use it.

Not to mention Tesla’s destination charger program web pages have verbiage to the effect of “for Tesla customers” all over them should be a clue…

Elon open sourced Tesla patents because he wanted to EVs to be the future (to save us from ourselves), and that EV future is not limited to Tesla. Going by that principal, I think the make of the EV won’t matter at a Tesla charging station, as long as it’s not an ICE vehicle.

I wanted a Tesla Model 3 but it’s too long a wait and also above my budget, so I settled with a Leaf 2018. What matters is I got an EV that fit my needs and budget, and I’m still planning to get a Tesla when my lease expires. We’re on the same team, Tesla or no Tesla.