Electric VW For Less Than $22,900 Coming By 2023-2024

FEB 1 2019 BY MARK KANE 92

An electric car for people is finally here coming in 2023/2024

Michael Jost, Head of Strategy at Volkswagen, said officially that in 2023, or at the latest in 2024, the company will introduce a truly affordable electric car, which will start from less than €20,000 ($22,900).

It will be a small car, the size of a T-Roc, which could be described as a compact crossover utility vehicle.

“MEB and ID. Family are part of the Volkswagen Group’s electric offensive, for which the company is investing around €30 billion by 2023. By 2025, the Group brands plan to increase the number of their all-electric cars from six today to more than 50. Jost, who is also the head of Group Product Strategy, emphasizes that electric vehicles are by no means synonymous with sacrifice: “We build cool electric cars that are fun to drive, beautifully designed and fully networked.” He notes that starting in 2023, or at the latest in 2024, Volkswagen will launch an electric model, which will be the size of a T-Roc, for less than €20,000.”

According to Autocar, the German manufacturer targets “classless design appeal, outstanding interior space within a compact footprint”.

We are probably some five years from the point when Volkswagen will be able to offer such a car, but it sounds interesting.

Affordable VW – what is expected:

  • in 2023, or at the latest in 2024
  • from less than €20,000 ($22,900)
  • size of a T-Roc model
  • 5-seats
  • raised ride position
  • based on MEB platform
  • range well over current Volkswagen e-Golf (125 miles / 201 km EPA)
  • front-wheel drive
  • production in Emden, Germany (up to 300,000 per year)
  • possible siblings from Audi, Seat and Skoda

Volkswagen T-Roc (ICE)

Source: Autocar

Categories: Volkswagen

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92 Comments on "Electric VW For Less Than $22,900 Coming By 2023-2024"

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Wasn’t it just a few days ago that a VW exec was saying they’d never be able to build a truly affordable EV?

There are cars much cheaper than €20k.

Exactly. The VW Polo costs less than the equivalent of $8,000 in India. I would imagine that is the price point for a big chunk of VW’s global sales.

With about €20k in fuel savings in many places in Europe over the lifetime of the car…

Assuming free electricity. Most people also don’t drive one car for 15 years however. Realistically average fuel savings are going to be a lot less than that per vehicle they own (probably closer to €10k over their ownership of the vehicle, offset by in the region of €2-3k for electricity costs).

Obviously if you do a lot more distance than the average driver (~12,000km a year in the EU, ranging from 10-14k km depending on country) then the sums are different.

So a €20,000 EV would probably be equivalent to today’s mid trim UP! or base trim Polo TCO wise. Not bad if they can do it. Remember also that small, cheap cars don’t usually rack up the same mileage as a large saloon or SUV/CUV.

You only have to wait 4-5 years!

VW is behind and it will take that long to offer a ‘base’ model with half the range of a base Model 3 at $35k to be offered in 2019. Now take out the roughly $10k in self driving technology built in every Tesla cameras/computers, etc), then a Tesla could be offered about $25k. Then reduce the battery back in half for another $4k? So it’s not hard to see how VW expect to get to the $23k price point with less than 120 EPA miles of range, in 4 or 5 years. But the reality is that Tesla ‘could’ be there very close to that today, however that would remove the technology that makes a Tesla a Tesla. But is is no technology that makes a VW a VW…so they can reach that market. With a Tesla you get it all and with higher and higher production numbers, it all comes at better and better pricing.

I doubt the actual autopilot hardware is anywhere near $10K. I doubt even half that.

Let’s see Tesla actually get the $35K model out before even talking about them hitting lower price points than that.

Except VW are talking about a car with around 200 miles of range AND the $35k Model 3 is still not available today.

This is still twice the price of a entry level car.

With a TCO way below it…

A low TCO means nothing if you can’t make the monthly payment on an expensive EV.

Jean-Baptiste Labelle

Your comment does not make sense. A low leasing makes also means nothing if you cannot pay for the gas or the maintenance of the car.
TCO is ALL that matters.

A T roc for 10000€. Youre fucking kidding right. A base model VW up cost more.
A T Roc in promotion with 3800€ less is now 18500 €. Price Belgium.
And then you got a 1.0 TSI 115 hp manul gearbox.
So add a more powerfull engine and automtic gearbox and youre way over 25000€
So cheaper than what they cleam

Good point. So they’re basically saying something price comparable at purchase, and saving money on fuel over the subsequent years.

Probably not far off a base Polo, or a mid trim UP! over say 5-7 years.

I’m twitterpated with excitement for this vehicle. It could happen to you.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Qq-dGMVOzc

Just around the corner!

So what will be different for them in 2024? Are they waiting for lower battery prices? Building capacity?

Cost per kWh of batteries. That is the reason why “cheap” low end electric cars still cost in the 30s, which is approaching premium.

And that will change by that big of a margin?

Battery prices have been coming down substantially for years. It doesn’t seem that improbable to me.

Predictable

It could be solid state batteries from ProLogium. They say they are in discussions with a “German auto giant”, with the first EV using their batteries possibly making a debut as early as 2019.

http://www.prologium.com.tw/NewsDetail.aspx?02F0EA87FB60FF52003AB70EAECFE03EC80757D9C75EC0110C4E14F09A3F397BCAF4F0A73BA67399F8B3A07F2CB48D31CE4F7B97FE3653973DE48FFC66B060AE82F045D252268314D157C3060DE8737493BCD1004C143314

They say their battery packs for EVs have energy densities significantly higher than the battery pack in the Tesla Model 3, and the cost is lower too.

You gotta think they have something to look forward. As you mentioned, a significantly higher density they will not have with the current battery tech.

I question their statements, look at 18650 batteries I get 75% is active material not 52%, worse if their figures are right than there is a lot of improvement in weight saving without changing chemistry that Tesla can still get out of their power packs.

I’m tired of VW promises. What happened to planned for 2020 e-Up/e-Citigo with 37 kWh battery and price under EUR 20000?

They are definitely a leader in VaporWare

Yup. When it comes to EVs, VW = VaporWare

They are so SLOW

As far as I know it is still January 2019 and not January 2020

Elon Musk wise but Elon eventually gets his promise, maybe 2 years later but his timeline is to sharp.
VW has done any at all

Article title: “Electric VW For Less Than $22,900 Coming By 2023-2024”
——————

That’s great news!

It means @Another Euro Point Of View has only 5 more years to wait for his low cost VW EV.

I wonder what the ID buggy will cost . . or is it just for the car show in Switzerland..

If they would make it a vehicle classified L7e according to EC rules (like a Quad/ATV) it could be a lot cheaper than a car since you don’t need all those safety features cars have.

I can buy a Nissan Leaf for under $20K today in many states.

Even new….

used or with a number of subsides.

So what….subsidies don’t count or something?

VW makes an EV announcement. That’s huge. It’s a very big deal. Compelling. For sure, it will dominate the market. Tesla is toast. Everyone is just going to wait and buy one of these. Finally, an affordable EV.

Can they just give it a rest? I wish Nike would buy them. At least that way, they’d stop announcing crap for some far off date and “just do it”.

How is it different than this quote from Elon last year (to be clear, Elon wasn’t saying they would do it, only that they could):

“I think in order for us to get up to…a 25,000 car, that’s something we can do,” he said. “But if we work really hard I think maybe we can do that in about 3 years”

So VW is doing it in 4 or 5? I guess we find out in 4 or 5 years.

So should we expect less from a company that’s in biz for 50+ years and has billions in profits? People tend to be short with VW lately but can you blame them?

Elon was answering a question. Not launching press releases.

End of october, 2018: Diess, CEO of VW:
“We will come in 2020 with vehicles that can do anything like Tesla and are cheaper by half.”
The MR costed 46.000 US$.

when he made that statement on a german talkshow the cheapest available tesla in Germany was a 70k€ (80k$) Model S 75D. A 400km VW EV for 35k€ or less will most likely be available within a year.

A vw whit 400 km for 35k is worse than a model s

At that time even in Germany it was clear that a model 3 would become available for 50.000 euros. (Depending on country and taxes), so he talked BS! And he knew it, as you can’t produce a Model3 equivalent for 25.000 euros. His own employees have mentioned that in the press. The only reason he is saying that is to keep the germans from buying other (= non-german) brands like Kia/Hyundai or Renault/Nissan.

It does not make any sense. Tesla came with vehicle (TM3) that can do anything like Tesla (TMS) and is cheaper by half.

It’ll have some competition, that’s the same time Tesla will release the 35k model 3. :-p

In 2008, Volkswagen executives proclaimed they would “dominate the auto industry by 2018, economically and environmentally.”

And in that time they doubled worldwide sales to 10 million per year, moving up to pass all companies including GM to get to #2 worldwide last year and they have breached Toyota in 2018 making VW ‘dominate’ worldwide. It isn’t even close in Europe. There’s hardly a number 2. And 2018 being EXACTLY on cue. https://www.timesfreepress.com/news/business/aroundregion/story/2019/jan/31/volkswagen-drives-no-1-global-sales/487698/ Huh…and looky here. VW is also the biggest in China. No not the biggest non-Chinese company….the biggest…period. https://www.autonews.com/article/20180822/COPY01/308229982/geely-s-china-sales-pass-japanese-rivals-as-automaker-chases-vw-gm VW group was just about 100,000 PEV sales in 2018… https://insideevs.com/vw-group-reports-rising-ev-phev-sales/ With e-Golf rising 60 percent. So 2019 nice growth ahead and by 2020 large volume will start flowing in. So basically over a decade ago they said ‘We are going to do A, B, and C within the next 10 years’ but they only did A and B and fell a couple years short on C. It’ intellectually inconsistent for people to bash VW over that 2 out of 3 success forecast a full decade out while at the same time hyperventilating when people rightly criticized Tesla for ridiculous statements like at the ‘launch’ of model 3 where Elon said 10,000 permonth by December which was less than 6 months away and he knew… Read more »

What a great company! oh but if only dieselgate didn’t get in the way of such greatness.

Old news and not related to whether or not they can build cars well.

They have dominated the auto industry for the last four years running. They are moving to EVs in a big way.

Actually, VW DID dominate last year, in all except for America. In Porsche and Audi they lost sales.
My gut feeling says that they will record being down across ALL of their segments except for the low-end VWs for 2019.
Come 2020,. VW will be in shear panic mode.

Always 4-5 years away.
Less talk and more walk VW.

The problem is not affordability, per se. The problem is better-than-average range at an affordable price. Personally, I take range “well over current Volkswagen e-Golf (125 miles / 201 km EPA)” to mean 150 miles. Not good enough.

You really think that low when we’re talking five years out? I could see 200 miles but only 150 sounds low given decreases in battery costs.

They intend entry level at 250 km range point, I reckon, but there will be longer range versions at higher prices of course. No one is allowed to buy a base VAG product! They will upsell like crazy, including delivery delays on the 250 km version (not unlike Tesla actually it must be said).
Pretty sure this approach will be possible by then, but, equally, it will not look very impressive by then, (even if it does now).

It’s good enough if the car costs half or less of what most EV’s with more range have today. Personally I rarely drive that many miles at a clip and when I do we usually go in the wifes car. It would also make more economic sense to buy an EV with les range (as long as it’s clearly enough for an airport or city round trip ) and rent a car if I feel the need to drive 500 miles a day. VW plans on selling cars at various price points with various ranges. Range costs money.

VaporWare it was, VaporWare it is, and VaporWare it will be.

Oh, but wait, there’s more!
VW is going to throw in 8 extra ShamWow towels, and that’s a $25.95 added bonus value, for those patient waiters, who hold out for the 4-5 year dealivery stealership timeline!

VW sure does talk a good story.

When they say 2023-2024, that means 2024-12-31 in Germany, 2025-12-31 in Europe and 2026-12-31 in rest of world.
They have just pushed the dates and will continue to do so.

This just it: something will maybe be built by VW in 5-6 years from now!!

So the smart money says suck it up, and take one for the team, and patiently wait on VW just a tad longer?

Just more blather, if they spent half the energy they do with this irrelevant press blather they might actually have something….they don’t, and it’s always next year, next year etc.

My guess is in 4-7 years, electric cars will be cheaper than equivalent GAS cars, they have less components, we just need to wait for scaling and price reduction to happen along the supply chain.

Only if the manufacturers start making them….otherwise we can wait all we want and nothing will happen.

You can have the VW e-Up right now as a brand new car from VW for 23.500 Euro (21.500 after German incentives)… they need 5 years to make it 15% cheaper???
https://www.volkswagen.de/de/models/e-up.html#vw_m246_m532_jump_id

No, 5 years to make something larger, with a longer range, for 15% cheaper.

Same old VW game; unobtainium until ______(fill in date 3-4 years away here!) . “We just happen to have some nice ICEVs in the back lot.”

The usual risible, extreme jam-tomorrow procrastination from the “Boy Cried Wolfsburg” jokers. It’s now almost 5 years since Dieselgate and VW are still selling nothing EV-wise in the real world and the present tense except the still mediocre-range e-Golf and the comedic e-UP!.
Worse still – the low $23,000 price tease will(by design) persuade countless would-be EV buyers to wait wait wait.. until..until..until VW finally-possibly-conceivably-eventually deliver on their latest not-now (yawn…) promise-ploy.
GM, Renault and Hyundai have delivered long-range desirable EVs(Bolt,Zoe,Kona) in the realworld without the pressure of a scandal to force them to do the right thing.
So how on Earth does VW get away with it year after year and decade after decade ? Well – largely thanks to a media that seems almost chronically incapable of criticising them – let alone serving up the ridicule they so richly deserve – and need.
Paul G

Please please please cant we start to ignore the constant We could, We will, we should ….. from WV. Its constant BS PR and im so sick of it. The day they actually make somerhing for real instead of 5pressreleases a day about how good they will be in 5 years then meaby i will read it.

I would not bet to be able to buy that in 2024.

Not sure why it would take that long – if you got it – do it – at $22k and 125mi+ range it will finally make EVs a real economic choice instead of a ride-on method of virrtue signaling. More CO2 is beneficial as ample scientific data show.

Reading about all the EV vaporware has my doctor accusing me of vaping.

Of course, being 5 years away, it’s all to be seen, But I think it will definitely be true. And certainly not only for VW.
Chinese EV startups might offer the same much sooner (in Europe also) (next year ?).
But back to this one: it’s huge ! since the ICE T-Roc starts from 20,000 euros, today !

So they say that they’ll be able to sell an “equivalent” EV for a lower price (probably with around 150 mi range – which means, with 200 mi range for little more, or the same), 5 years from now. Add the savings, and better drive, lower environmental impact and everything, and you have that anyone who could charge it somewhere would have to be really stupid (sorry) to buy an ICE alternative.

EVs will prevail for a number of reasons, but I’d argue the MAIN ONE will be ECONOMIC CONVINIENCE.

🙂

It’s not a tiny city car, the T-Roc. It’s a bit bigger than Kona. And the ICE starts at 20,000 euros, today.

Oh FFS!!… Stop with the announcements already and just start making some EV’s you bunch of emission cheating AH’s.

Takes about 4 to years to develop a new car

It has been more than four years since the lawsuits. And how did the other non-Tesla cars companies do it but VW can’t?

You mean the E-Tron, the Taycan, the ID Neo. I’m sure others can name a few more vehicles scheduled for release this year or early next.

It’s almost like they can’t work on 20 new vehicles at the same time!

They have. They have several BEV’s available to buy now, they have a new one being manufactured (the e-Tron) and they have several others being tested on the road now for release later this year/early next year.

That and the half a dozen other vehicles they have announced/commented on over the next 3-4 years.

But they’re not Tesla right, so none of that counts…

VW: VaporWare

As usual, I’ll believe it when I see it for sale in Pennsylvania.

They seem to intentionally be trying to “Osborne Effect” the EV market. Announcing a theoretical car half a decade early?

This announcement seems to serve no purpose other than to try and hurt current EV sales.

No, it serves to persuade stock market users to buy/hold their shares as they have a plan.

These announcements aren’t for the EV community, they’re for the money people.

….as I said last time, you might as well replace those “Vague/unrealistic/embarrassing statement by VW exec” stories with ones generated by a bot 🙂

No awd, no bother

I won’t hold my breath…..