Development Well Underway On 265-Mile Electric Porsche Sedan

MAY 20 2015 BY MARK KANE 35

The Porsche Cayenne S E-Hybrid

The Porsche Cayenne S E-Hybrid

Work on the all-electric Porsche executive sedan is well underway according to Autocar. The electric Porsche should at least match the Tesla Model S on power and range (265 miles).

Interesting is that the German brand is supposedly preparing to launch all-electric and hydrogen fuel cell versions of the car, based on the same new MSB platform.

Launch is expected in late 2017 or early 2018. FCV version probably will “arrive in limited-production runs shortly afterwards“.

Expected names: 718 for BEV and 818 for FCV.

Electric Porsche will be rear-wheel drive with two motors.

“According to the uncovered patents, which were filed in December last year, Porsche engineers have designed a new structural rear-mounting system for the electricdrive motors.

This makes the powertrain itself part of the ‘eMSB’ structure, which will help to stiffen the rear end, improve the overall rigidity and ensure resilience in a rear-end impact.In addition, company engineers have patented something called an ‘impact plate’, which is also part of the platform’s new structure. These plates will be fitted between the battery cells, running across from one sill structure to another.

This will give the floor greater rigidity and improve side impact performance. The batteries themselves use ‘pouch cells’ and are mounted in rigid frames.”

Development of wireless charging for the “718” is in progress.

It seems that there will be finally some competition for Tesla in two to three years.

Source: Autocar

Categories: Porsche

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35 Comments on "Development Well Underway On 265-Mile Electric Porsche Sedan"

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“The electric Porsche should at least match the Tesla Model S on power and range (265 miles).”
—-
I think I’ll be most interested in the price comparison.

no comment

you won’t be able to afford either one…

Speak for yourself, but I’m interested to see how a company that’s part of a big auto group (VW) and sells 50K cars in North America is able to price a 250+ mile BEV.

Anton Wahlman

More relevant, perhaps: They sell 10 million cars per year, or something like 40,000 cars per annualized working weekday day.

Brian

My guess is that the Porsche will be more expensive, but the difference will be worth it to the driving enthusiast. The bean counters aren’t in that market – they’re likely waiting for the Model III / Bolt to arrive.

no comment

i think the “bean counters” *are* in that market (where there is a business decision to be made, there will always be “bean counters” on the scene). what Tesla has shown is that there appears to be a very good market for long range BEVs at the high end. you don’t want a BEV as your only car, but at the high end, people have multiple cars, so while the long range BEV can handle just about all local driving, they will have a backup vehicle.

the difference between a company like Tesla and a company like VW is that VW can afford to offer a high end, low production volume automobile. VW has enough high volume vehicles to cover their fixed costs, so the high end vehicles basically pad corporate profits. but VW would not be able to sustain itself if all they were selling was Porsche; apparently Porsche wasn’t able to sustain itself because it ended up being bought by VW. i expect that ultimately Tesla will be bought and that elon musk is primarily managing the company so as to get the highest selling price for corporate assets.

Brian

Well, I guess it depends on what one means by “bean counters”. That’s a vague term, so allow me to elaborate.

Those buying a Model S or a Porsche (any model) are not those who are concerned with getting a car for the lowest TCO. They tend to be folks who buy a car for far more emotional reasons. Either it sends a message (Tesla = green/trendy/high tech, Porsche = expensive/German Engineered (yes that matters to some)/etc), or it is just fun to drive. Again, I expect the overall driving characteristics of a Porsche to be among the best in the world. I have never driven one, nor have I driven a Model S, but that is the impression I get anyway.

no comment

i think you are referring to the characteristics of the buyers of the cars, not the manufacturers. on that point, i agree that buyers of high end cars are a lot less price sensitive than Toyota Camry purchasers.

when it comes to cars like the Tesla Model S, the high end is primarily driven by performance. the thing about electric vehicles, though, is that when you engage in showboat driving antics, it takes longer to recover lost charge than it does to fill up a tank. the “eco” stuff is kind of a desirable side effect. you need only look at the number of drag racing videos to see that energy efficient operation is a very secondary consideration.

indeed, when you look at the BMW i8 and Porsche 918, the main use of electric motors is to augment the performance of the gasoline engine by providing low end torque until the gasoline engine can rev up on the torque curve.

John in AA

“you need only look at the number of drag racing videos to see that energy efficient operation is a very secondary consideration”

Classic selection bias. How many videos would you expect to see posted of people driving their cars efficiently and responsibly? (“OK, now I’m going to… gently accelerate to 55 mph. Now I’m going to… slowly ease up on the accelerator to allow the vehicle to coast to a stop.”)

no comment

when Tesla promotes an “insane” mode in the Model S; when the Porsche 911, BMW i8, &c. promote the 0-60 times for their cars; and when you see posters on this forum focus on 0-60 times for electric vehicles in general; i think there is a bit more than “selection bias”, on my part, going on here.

Mr X

Re the costs and support of Porsche by VW:
Porsche almost bought VW. Porsche doesn’t need VW to make money. In fact the margin of Porsche was (before being bought by VW) and still is much higher than that of VW.

Lensman

It’s hardly surprising that an upscale auto maker like Porsche has a larger profit margin than an auto maker which makes cars for the masses. Indeed, if it were not the case, that would indicate failure on the part of the upscale company. It’s a well known business standard that you can make up for lack of profit margin with volume sales. I’m sure that in average total annual profits, the Volkswagen badge far exceeds the Porsche badge.

wavelet

You are getting the corp. history wrong.

Porsche was never “bought” by VW. It’s more the other way around. After they restructured, Porsche the car brand is indeed a division of VW Group, but VW group as a whole is majority-owned (50.76%) by a holding company called Poesche SE, which belongs to the Porsche family. The two companies were always close, since the Founder of Porsche also designed the Beetle, and making VW as a company possible in the first place.

LuStuccc

“Driving enthousiast”
The comments I have read from people with Porsches, ferraris, jag etc who bought or drove a Tesla, is that Tesla is really more fun to drive.

Daniel

That assumes that Tesla’s Model S will remain “static” and the goal post will not move in the next three or so years.

James

Indeed, classic example of skating to where the puk is, not where it will be.

The fact that it will be another 2-3 years before there is a credible competitor to the Model S speaks volumes about how far behind the other manufacturers truely are.

Anon

+1

Lensman

Not to mention that it seems quite unlikely that Porsche will be able to source battery cells with the same high energy density as those used in the Model S — let alone the vast quantity! Even if they can find a supplier to match Panasonic’s high energy density, let’s remember that Panasonic is by far the largest supplier of EV batteries, in terms of kWh delivered.

In the unlikely event that Porsche does manage to make a car as well received as the Model S, I expect it to be like the Panamera: overpriced and produced in small quantities. Small even by comparison with Tesla’s output.

turboro

When Porsche brings a full electric car, than the german Autopress suddenly will like it and will position it as the Next Big Thing in automotive history

Speculawyer

Ugh . . . you are probably completely correct.

Priusmaniac

At least Germany bough some Tesla Model S already and allow them in the country. Not so long ago the British/French Concorde was snubbed by the US with zero purchases and at first was even banned from landing in New-York. I guess if a US supersonic was ever manufactured the US press would have said it was the Next Big Thing in aviation history. Had it been fairly accepted with at contrary some enthusiasm, the larger market would likely have permitted improved successors and we would not be stranded on snail speed flying cans today.

pjwood1

Tesla could be doing, for Porsche, what all the OEMs did for Tesla. Giving them room. Where Tesla (likely) drops RWD, Porsche goes dual motor in back. Where Porsche offers multi-valved damping systems, Tesla rides on a geeky cloud. Where Porsche allows its owners the ability to turn off traction control, Tesla goes full-nanny in the P85D.

I also doubt Porsche’s follow through, but it won’t be a strong defense that keeps them down.

Omar Sultan

Cool – the more electric halo cars we can get, the merrier.

It seems odd to be spending R&D on both a BEV and FCEV drivetrain for limited run cars, unless they price the cars to fully recoup the development costs, in which case, they are going to be holy-cow expensive.

Jouni Valkonen

Although halo car sales are low in numbers, they are generating about 10 to 20 times more profits per unit sold than Toyota Corollas. Therefore car companies are allocating their R&D spendings accordingly. This is why it is important to incentivise electric car markets as such that all flag ship models sold are either all electric or hydrogen powered.

This would ensure that enough R&D resources are directed to alternative fuel vehicles. Today non-Tesla car companies are investing mere pennies to alternative energy vehicle technologies compared what they are investing on fossil oil powered cars.

no comment

unless you are Tesla motors, i would not think that automakers take their direction from elon musk. i would think that many automakers are investigating FCEVs because they are aware of the limitations of BEVs. these companies are going to want to hedge their bets in case that BEVs don’t take off and regulations force them to come up with a better solution.

GM, for example, is doing research with FCEVs. based on this story, i take it that Porsche is also studying FCEVs.

Lensman

Any auto maker wasting money on “fool cell” vehicles would be far better off listening to Elon Musk. Within a few years, all but the most deluded will realize that (aside from rockets) hydrogen fueled vehicles are a dead end.

Jouni Valkonen

Sad for Porsche as non-AWD electric cars do not make any sense in any price category.

Lensman

The rear wheel drive Tesla Model S got a 99 out of 100 score from Consumer Reports; the reviewers called it the best car they ever reviewed. And the car won, I think, more “Best car of the year” awards than any other car, ever. So clearly not everyone agrees with your assessment.

The AWD version of the Model S would certainly be preferable in regions which get a significant amount of snow each year. Elsewhere, it’s definitely optional.

Kaleb

You folks complain when manufacturers don’t make EVs and you complain when they do. I don’t care who makes them, they will benefit our children and our children’s children.

Just_Chris

+1

Gibber

+1

Lensman

We certainly complain when auto makers keep promising the moon regarding EVs, but keep delivering beach balls. Tesla excluded.

Not a lot of direction if it’s both H2 and EV. It sounds like “dabbling”.

Also, I suspect that the wireless charging will be ok for overnight charging, but I can almost bet any amount of money that they don’t get the Supercharger phenomenon.

I can drive from coast to coast RIGHT NOW in a Tesla. I won’t be able to do that in my lifetime in an H2 car, or one with wireless charging.

Bill Howland

An electric Porsche that goes farther than 20 miles.. Whoda thunk it?

philip d

” The electric Porsche should at least match the Tesla Model S on power…”

Which Model S? There’s a big difference between the standard S85D and P85D.

Also 4 seats probably with less cargo capacity.