Combined AC DC Charging System In Europe – Video

AUG 23 2014 BY MARK KANE 23

SAE Combo Plug And Receptacle

SAE Combo Plug And Receptacle

Here is video presenting a Combined Charging System for AC & DC charging in Europe (the US variant – SAE Combo is different). Such a system is already utilized by BMW and Volkswagen.

The idea behind this solution is simple – one inlet in car, enabling AC and DC charging up to 100 kW (well, AC charging up to 43 kW).

Depending on the charging point, you just need to insert the AC plug or larger DC plug using additional DC pins on the bottom.

The SAE version doesn’t have 3-phase capability because it inherits the J1772 single phase plug, while in Europe the base was 3-phase plug.

Categories: Charging


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23 Comments on "Combined AC DC Charging System In Europe – Video"

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The video is in German.

I just used the youtube CC option in English to “listen” to it. Simply.

You should mention that VW and BMW is NOT shipping all cars with CCS. It is an extra on the price list and no one knows the market acceptance.

Mercedes does not use CCS.

BTW: DC goes up to 170kw with CCS

I think the BMW i3 comes with CCS on all its models. VW is not shipping yet in the USA so it remains to be seen. And, yes, the Mercedes (*cough*Tesla*cough*) B-Class does not support SAE-CCS.

I should have known better . . . BMW always nickels & dimes people with options.

It is the VW eGolf that is supposed to have the SAE-CCS DC fast-charger standard.

I just hope that VW & BMW help build out the SAE-CCS infrastructure here in the USA. It really needs some backers to help it along.

Ford, GM, and Chrysler/Fiat do not seem to being much to help it along despite all having signed up for the SAE-CCS standard. And GM is the only one of them to actually make a car with SAE-CCS . . . but they only sell it in California & Oregon.

Chrysler/Fiat said that Fiat 500e was designed to allow DC-fast charging to be easily added when it became available. Well . . . it is available now . . . add it to the Fiat 500e. And Ford, add it to your Focus EV. You lazy bastages.

lol! That totally cracked me up. I can relate, Focus Electric and Fiat 500e are in the fleet. It’s the one thing I really wish they both had. Great cars otherwise.

Meanwhile Tesla is using just the “Basic Type2” connector design to charge at 120 kW without need for the larger 2-pin DC appendage.

This kind of implies the “High Power CCS” DC connector is redundant, or unnecessary poorly designed. It would be interesting hear why the larger, costlier, less ergonomic CCS-DC design is superior to the “Basic Type2” design as used by Tesla for DC charging upto supercharger speeds? Is it because Tesla just uses better materials and better manufacturing quality control, or something else?

Tesla did a little trick with the Type 2 in Europe. You can put a normal AC Mennekes plug in it like in any other car. But the supercharger-Mennekes goes in two or three extra inches. Thats because the pins have a larger size at the end. Without thicker copper the 135 kW DC (or even more in the future) wouldn’t be possible.

Thanks @Cavaron, for pointing out the minor engineering detail that makes a major difference in overall connector size. #smartengineering

They do seem to be ahead of the curve.

Tesla was able to do deeper pins (rather than extra pins) for the European Tesla connector, like Cavaron mentioned.

That idea probably doesn’t work as well with the J1772 socket because of fewer power pins than Type 2 (with similar contact size). That’s probably why the Tesla connector in the US needs an adapter to J1772 (rather than being directly compatible).

The CCS design makes sense in that context, as it keeps the same socket foot-print for both versions and reuses most of the pins for both AC/DC while the protocol is the same. It’ll be interesting to see if the next version of CCS will try to the deeper pin strategy for more power.

Re: “reuses most of the pins for both AC/DC while the protocol is the same” I doubt the protocol’s the same.

J1772 is pretty dumb, see, as the stations (EVSEs) are basically smart safety switches that put out a pilot signal. The car’s on-board charger has to comply and not draw more than advertised per the pilot. EVSEs have no knowledge of the state of charge of the battery, battery temperature and condition, etc.

I suspect the above has no resemblance to Green PHY, used by SAE Combo. (CHAdeMO uses CAN (Controller Area Network).)

I don’t know the details of Mennekes type 2 and the protocols involved but given that J1772 inlet vehicles in Europe must use a Mennekes to J1772 cable, supplied by the driver, I suspect there also is little intelligence in a Mennekes type 2 EVSE as well.

I have a dual meaning when I say “same”

1)AC/DC is the “same” protocol because they are both under the updated J1772-2012 protocol. The protocol handles both AC and DC. For DC, the difference is it switches to digital communication via PLC, after a 5% control pilot duty cycle (using the pilot from the AC-only J1772-2009). You can contrast this with CHAdeMO, which has absolutely no AC support.

2)Both the Type 1 (J1772) and Mennekes versions essentially use the same protocol.

Waaay too many standards.

So even an SAE “standard” J1772 is not standard because of the A/C being 3 phase.


And what was that about CHAdeMO charging handles being too big and bulky???

Remember combined washer/dryers, combined VHS/TV, combined…

Meh . . . unless you drive your car across the Atlantic Ocean, I can’t see that being an issue.

imho, the J1772 in N-A (EVSE & onboard AC charger to support single & triphase input) should have been 3 phase from the beginning, as available in EU.

Imagine the same L2 AC EVSE but wired/feed 208/3/60 instead of 208/1/60 per exemple, you would have (1.73) √3 x 208V x 30A = 10.8KVA to feed the onboard battery charger instead of only 6.24KVA …

I agree with others, too many plug & “standards” out there

What EV is that in the Video.
Looks like an S but not is.

Was that a pin locking the plug into the car? I’m not sure how I feel about this.

1) How do I allow someone besides myself to pull the plug out?

2) These little solenoids freeze up in the winter.

This probably would have been a good standard for many years to come but with only 100kw for the DC charging it’s crippled already.

“Hell’s Bells”