ClipperCreek LCS-25P Now Available With NEMA L6-30, 14-30P, 14-50P and 6-50P Plugs For $549

NOV 13 2013 BY ERIC LOVEDAY 73

You ask…ClipperCreek listens.

LCS-25P

LCS-25P With L6-30 Plug

The world’s smallest Level 2 charging station, the LCS-25, is now available with all sorts of plugs so that it can be plugged in virtually anywhere.

The LCS-25 becomes the LCS-25P when ordered with a factory-installed plug.  The options for plugs now include NEMA L6-30, 14-30P, 14-50P and 6-50P, which basically cover all the bases and does so for only $549.

As ClipperCreek states:

“ClipperCreek announced today the availability of its LCS-25P with factory installed  wall plugs. Priced at just $549, this Level 2, 5 kW plug-in vehicle charge station is available with the widest selection of wall plugs directly from the factory in Auburn, CA.”

LCS-25P

LCS-25P With NEMA 14-30 Plug

“The added variety of 240V plug types, means the industry’s smallest 240V charge station can now be plugged in virtually anywhere. With a 3 year no strings warranty and 25 feet of charging cable standard, the LCS-25P has an outstanding value for the money.”

Dave Packard, President of ClipperCreek, stated:

“We felt it was important to add the additional plug types to support customers that may have charging stations which are no longer supported by their manufacturer.  Replacement is a snap and customers can be back up and charging in no time.”

As for those “charging stations which are no longer supported by their manufacturer,” ClipperCreek is clearly referring to ECOality here and, more specifically, to those often-faulty Blink chargers.

LCS-25P Plug Options

LCS-25P Plug Options

Categories: Charging

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73 Comments on "ClipperCreek LCS-25P Now Available With NEMA L6-30, 14-30P, 14-50P and 6-50P Plugs For $549"

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Assaf

Nice…

Overall, the cost of L2 charge stations is quickly becoming negligible compared to the cost of cars and their maintenance.

Dan Frederiksen

Are you kidding. 550$ for an effing extension cord. It’s this kind of stupidity that is holding EVs back.

Ted Fredrick

When you put it that way it does sound expensive. The thing that is holding people back is the high cost of getting cheap electricity. SO Cal Edison is doing everything that they can do to keep the price of electricty up. My dad had to put in a extrra meter to charge his volt to get the .11c a kilowatt price. They could have just given him a discount instead he had to pay $1500 for the new meter.

Unplugged

SCE offers Time Of Use metering where the cost of charging between midnight and 6 a.m. is $.10. No need to put in a dedicated meter. If you aren’t home during peak hours, this is the way to go.

Unplugged

And as a follow-up, even if someone worked from home, the payback on a separate meter for a Volt would probably take 6 or more years. The Volt has a mid-capacity battery, not an EV battery, so the extra electricity cost is nominal during the day in comparison to the cost of s separate meter.

Dr. Kenneth Noisewater

$199 for a fully-assembled 60A L2 charger:

http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/emw/emw-juicebox-an-open-source-level-2-ev-charging-st

Dunno if any have actually shipped tho :p

Dr. Kenneth Noisewater

“Fully assembled” doesn’t include the J1772 + cables tho :p.. Still, even if you double it, $400 for 60A sure beats $2k or more..

Mark H

This is like the $25 end-of-isle item at Lowes. I bought one just to check out the quality. I plan to donate it to a local non-profit after I tinker with it a bit.

Unplugged

The components and photos are shown on the site. It is contained in an aluminum housing. Why do you claim that it is super low quality? It has much higher performance in terms of amps and relays than the Clipper Creek shown. It sounds to me like you are engaging in a bit of hyperbole here.

Nate

Sounds like you know how to build the same thing for cheaper, so easily that you can keep some profit for yourself. What is holding you back from doing so?

Dan Frederiksen

Sounds like you are looking for a mindless excuse to not understand the truth I speak. I can’t commit my life to every observation I make just ecause whiners insist I do that. But yes I could make it much much cheaper.
If done really aggressively and produce maybe 10000 at once I could do a 16A version with 3 meter cord and plugs and full J1772 compliance for less than 20$ in parts. You can then decide how much you want to add for development, assembly, packaging, logistics and profit.
The biggest cost item by far is likely the development of a custom j1772 plug. But knowing chinese companies I wouldn’t be surprised if it was very manageable.

Mike S.

Sounds like you are just mindlessly throwing out numbers Dan. First of all, I know for a fact that the 3 meter piece of multiconductor itself would run you twice the amount of $20 for which you are claiming you can build that 16 Amp version. You are just throwing out numbers hoping people not educated in the cost of the components and cable really run will just accept your BS. Just like so many people who go on righteous indignant rants you don’t have a single true fact to back it up, just made up numbers to bluff justify your stance.

Mike S.

Oh, and who wants a charging station with a cord barely over 9 feet anyway. By the way, the $40 price point for 3 meters of multiconductor cable is at cost for a major manufacturer buying bulk quantities. Please don’t speak conjecture and speculation as fact to make a BS point (even making it worse by making up facts to support what you say) , it just makes everyone dumber for reading or hearing your points.

Unplugged

I do sympathize with your objection to high cost charging stations, especially those in the $1000 to $1500 range. But pricing 20-30 amp stations at the $500 price point isn’t too bad. There are many components that make up a charging station that add to the price beyond just an extension cord. The only “blow-up” diagram I can find of the components are found here: http://emotorwerks.com/JuiceBox_Public/8.6/70%20-%20Assembly%20manuals/EMW%20JuiceBox%20Kit%20Assembly%20Instructions%20-%20V8.6%20-%20V18.pdf

It is a bit complicated, but definitely not $1000 complicated.

KenZ
I’m with @Unplugged on this one. An EVSE is _not_ a glorified extension cord. There is a lot more going on there. Not a massive amount, but it’s not trivial either. It is NOT simply connecting power to a particular sized plug. There are several sequences controlled there, to include sensing, power negotiation, then relays to give power when the negotiation is done, safety/fault sensing and disconnect circuitry and associated code, etc. Believe me Dan, I was with your sentiment a few months ago until I started looking into it. The best source of info is the openEVSE project, where there’s an Arduino-based, open source EVSE project, code, hardware specs, and even kits you can build yourself. Then there are also branch projects, like a “hydra” splitter that plugs into an EVSE, and splits it out to TWO EVSE plugs, and negotiates power between the two so two cars can share the same main charger (say, at work with limited chargers). I would encourage anyone who thinks a $500 EVSE is too much to go peruse all of what goes into building one, even a ‘ghetto’ open source version, at https://groups.google.com/forum/#!forum/openevse Once you’ve taken the time to read through the… Read more »
Dan Frederiksen

Ken, that just means you are wrong like unplugged.
J1772 is just a glorified extension cord.

Once the typical dollar store mass producers get into it you will see the true cost of this functionality. Since you refuse to think now.

Digikey is always a good insight into what things actually cost. Sort by price, then look for highest volume price and then half that again and you are close to what things really cost in bulk.
16A mains relay for instance might cost 50cents and that’s a big part of J1772.
Always trust reason my sheep. Never trust status quo.
And in general, never disagree with me. It’s statistically unwise.

Mike S.
Dan, you are quite simply an idiot. Please quit making yourself look a fool. I am directly involved with producing products for the company mentioned in this article. I know the components and circuits used and what they do. I know the prices of the components that go into it and the technology involved. You are uneducated in the products except for basic knowledge of electricity. Like I typed to you earlier the multi-conductor cable is way more expensive than you think as the least of the concerns. You can’t simply put electrical parts that you think will work together to charge a hybrid battery system. You have to have circuitry to recognize charge need, negotiate the power safely and at a rate that does not damage battery cells in the long run ( or very quickly if built the way you want to ‘rig’ it up), shut off and cool when done and/or trickle charge to maintain as needed. Even if you take the smallest gauge multiconductor at 14 gauge, you are still looking at a five lead multiconductor with special insulation properties for weather resistance while carrying high amperage for faster charge. You keep spouting off things like… Read more »
Aaron

Responses like that, Dan, are what make people realize you’re not as smart as you think.

Dan Frederiksen
No Aaron, that’s just your erroneous opinion. And always speak for yourself. The weakminded speak like they are borg and claim to represent a group. Of course level 2 is just a stupid extension cord. there are trigger pins and a relay and you can add a fuse. That’s all it takes. The plug should be made smaller and the cord should be thinner. Do it right you only need 2 wires because you can have the relay functionality in the handle. Indeed you could easily hack it further, simply have a switch on the wall outlet which you flip after connecting it so no need for relay. Although some cars might refuse that. When someone finally does a rational design you will see just how much it is a glorified extension cord but like all dark minds you will not come forward and admit you were wrong and apologize. You will hide in shadows and maybe attack me on something new. Never learning, never growing. A 32A ‘charge station’ should cost maybe 100$ retail. The size and design of the box on the wall is just to fool you. Although some can have additional functionality that isn’t required in… Read more »

Please lets not try to goad each other on. Agree/disagree, point/counterpoint is what discussions are for. But even a well stated point can be lost in translation if it is not delivered in a manner in which it can be received.

MTN Ranger

Technically it is a 4.8kW EVSE. For faster charging PEVs that support 6.6kW or 7.2kW, this is a bit underpowered. Kind of half way between a 3.3 and 6.6. Otherwise the price is good.

Foo

The LCS-25 fully charges my Ford Focus EV in 5 hours (compared to 6.6 kW which takes 3.5 hours). For the normal case of overnight charging, 1.5 hours makes absolutely no difference in the morning. So, the LCS-25 is a great value.

And the portability aspect is great. I actually have the original LCS-25, but made my own plugs and adapters for it, much like what CC is offering now. At only 20 amps, it is very safe to plug in to virtually any household 240V outlet (usually wired for 30 amps). Sure, 24 amps be reasonable too, and would be “better” — but in my case, charging my FFE, that additional power would only save me about 40 minutes during a full charge, 20 minutes during a half charge, and something like 10 minutes during a top-off.

Spec9

The really sneaky thing to do is to get a combiner thingy that you can plug into two different 120V outlets on different phases to create a virtual 240V outlet.

Doug B

If you plug across different phases, you’ll get nothing. Two 120’s on same phase gets you 240. That’s how your US dryer/oven/hot-tub is powered and what these plug into.

Jeff

You have that exactly backwards.

Foo

+1

Unplugged

If it is on the same circuit, all you get is a blown breaker or fuse.

Unplugged

Sorry, I meant phase instead of circuit. No editing available?

Dave R

You do not want to use this EVSE on a 20A circuit unless you are certain that your EV only pulls 16A or less.

And on a typical 15A 120V outlet you do not want to pull more than 12A.

Spec9

Well if you have a 3KW charger, you should be fine.

I’d like them to sell a kit that included the EVSE with adapters for all the different plugs. That way wherever you find yourself that has a 240V outlet you can plug in. I know you can do that yourself, but it would be nice if ClipperCreek offered a nice kit with a case that holds all the adapters.

miimura

Just buy the L6-30 version from ClipperCreek and buy the adapters from EvseAdapters.com Totally turnkey.

ModernMarvelFan

Just choose the L6-20 plug version and then you can make a bunch of your own pigtails with parts from Home Depot to go from L6-20 to Nema14-50, NEMA14-30, NEMA6-30

Dwayne

I wonder if there would be any advantage to a 400 VDC charger that drew its power for a standard 240VAC socket. I realise there is only so much power you can pull out to the wall but 50 amp circuits ( 12 KW) are not hard to wire and many new homes come with 200 amp service. Just wondering…..

miimura

The only to get any benefit from an external charger that is power limited as you propose is if you could make the AC to DC efficiency significantly higher than the on-board charger. Is that possible with split-phase 240VAC residential power? I don’t know.

Let’s see if we can tighten up the terminology a bit…. Split – Phase refers to a single phase motor starting method. It does not refer to the center tapped neutral system analogous to edison’s dc delivery system from 120 years ago in common use in north america (3 wires plus additional ‘earthing’ for european readers), although you’re not the first dude I’ve seen use the term in this way. The term you want for standard North American residential services is Single Phase or 1-phase. Onboard car chargers are quite efficient, whether single or polyphase, simply since DC smoothing is unnecessary for battery charging.\\ As far as Dwayne’s comment, efficiency seems to be very high in general at any power level, with the exception of the Tesla Roadster and recent Toyota Rav4EV: (both with Tesla electrics). Other than these 2 vehicles, efficiency is very high, to my knowledge, unless someone has definitive information on another specific vehicle. For these 2 vehicles, here’s the breakdown. Tesla’s Roadster onboard charger is most efficient at 7- 10 kw charge rates… It decreases slightly at either low or high 240 volt currents. The 120 volt charging efficiency is horrible. Ditto for the Toyota recent… Read more »
miimura

Bill, Wikipedia seems to agree with me, but it’s a semantic argument.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Split-phase_electric_power

Also, I don’t know why you call out the charger in the RAV4 EV and not the Model S. AFAIK, they use the same charger module. The reason that they have relatively low efficiency at 120VAC is that they do active thermal management by pumping coolant through the charger and battery. The pump and occasional fan loads are a more significant fraction of the input power at 120VAC (1.44kW) than 240VAC (4.8-9.6kW) which leads to lower charging efficiency.

Oh, Ok, this is educational to me. I didn’t know that’s what Europeans called it “Splitting the Phase”. Ok, it has a certain reasonableness to it.

In North America, Split-phase refers to a phase shifting method to generate a rotating starting field on small fractional horsepower induction motors. Perhaps a better term would be “Resistance Start”, but everone in American knows what is meant by a split-phase motor (if not the technical reasoning behind it).

The reason I left out the model S is that I don’t have efficiency numbers for 110 charging at normal temperatures. I do know its hopeless at very cold temperatures, unlike my roadster, which is somewhat unaffected by the cold, other than a battery preheating if necessary.

That kit will be available by Jan 1 from a third party distributor.

I’m testing it now, will be writing a review within the next few weeks.

Cool. Nice job

Josephus

Guess I’m wondering it the 30A and 50A units can be plugged into either amperage with an adaptor with no problem. That might change which one I buy.

Foo

Yes, you can make an adapter to plug into a higher amperage circuit without issues. But, you can’t do the same with a lower amperage circuit… you’ll either blow the breaker, damage something, or start a fire.

Jeff

This is a good idea. But what I’d really like to see is manufacturer sell a charger that can do both 120V AND 240V charging, like you can get from EVSEupgrade [dot] com.

My only problem is that EVSEupgrade won’t/can’t retrofit the Chevy Volt EVSE’s, and the cost of a brand new EVSE from them is >$1000. That’s too much for what it’s worth IMO.

KenZ

Jeff, they do. See:

http://www.amazon.com/EVI-Plug–Charger-Portable-Cord/dp/B00D6OGRX6/ref=sr_1_3?s=automotive&ie=UTF8&qid=1384426263&sr=1-3&keywords=ev+institute

And at $350, it’s a bargain.

Jay (are you monitoring this?), perhaps a wiki/sticky on your website with a simple list of known charger options/costs/links? No one seems to know about EVI.

Josephus

Federal tax credit goes away for this at the end of the year. FYI. I think its 30%. $348 for a level 2 charger, best deal on the market. (I also have a 25% Oregon State credit =$247). Don’t need a bigger 6.6 kWh EVSE for over night charging. 4.8 is plenty.

I guess that I’m surprised that no other competitors have tried to price match or beat this deal. Black Friday???

Nate

Interesting. I thought the Oregon credit was simply up to $750 of your cost, and not a % up to $750. I was just going by the incentives description on the Leaf site. I checked the Oregon.gov site — You’re certainly right. The fact that it is just a % makes this credit pretty small. Wow, considering this is the only EV incentive for consumers in Oregon, its surprising how many EV’s are sold here. I currently charge by 110, and that works out pretty well for our needs as we still start the day with a full charge. I was thinking about going with an LCS-25 variant, but now that the credit is smaller than I thought I’m not so sure. Besides the cost of the charger we have some costs with bringing 240 into the garage, and the panel is in the basement. It may not be worth it.

As mentioned, the 16 amp Bosch on my post 2 posts up is $100 less. Seems funny to me that clippercreek is marketing this product here since it is most ideal as the rebranded SunCountryHighway product, seeing as it was obviously designed for Canadian 25 amp circuits, which have no analogue in the USA.

KenZ

Question for all you gurus- we’re redoing our kitchen, and while our current Volt charges just fine off the 110 in the carport, since we’re pulling wires and will have an electrician on hand, we’re going to put in two 240 outlets to support some future need (one for each car). Let’s pretend that I am never going to be able to afford a Tesla, and will really only need to charge overnight, but it might be a Leaf fully drained.

QUESTION: What socket should I drop in? I’m thinking 40A breakers on each, thus 30A sockets. But which one? If you could choose any socket right now, what would you get? I’ve got about three weeks to make the call before the electrician does the deed. I’m glad that ClipperCreek will offer it with any possible plug, but it didn’t exactly help me decide…

io

Definitely don’t get less than a 40A circuit, so the EVSE can be 30/32A. As for the outlet… Dunno, L6-30 seems rather popular?
An outlet is something easy to change later anyway if needed. The wiring, much less so. Note that some (NEMA 14, incl new dryer outlet) require a neutral, whereas others do not (NEMA 6 or L6), so if you want max future-proofing, get all 4 wires in (L1, L2, N, G) even if the outlet you put in only requires 3 (L1, L2, G).

KenZ

Thanks. That’s exactly the input I was looking for.

Kenz , no offense IO but DON’T PUT A 40 AMP BREAKER IN A CIRCUIT WITH A 30 AMP OUTLET. YOU MUST USE A 50 AMP OUTLET, even though the charger is only going to use 30 or 32 amps.

But the rest of his advice is good. Have him run either #8 copper or aluminum with a 40 amp breaker (make sure he cleans the wires and uses Oxyban grease if he installs aluminum), along with a 3 wire or 4 wire circuit.

3 wire for 6-50 outlet, 4 wire for 14-50.

The difference is Tesla uses the Range/RV outlet (14-50 4 wire, even though they don’t use the neutral white wire). ALMOST every other EVSE manufacturer does not use the neutral, with the possible exception of Eaton.

The main part of my comment is a few posts below here… ONly thing I wanted to add is how big is your house now and how big is your current electric service? If at least 150 amps you may decide on two 40 amp circuits, allowing for 2 – 32 (max) amp chargers. If you have your heart set on these 2 clipper creek units and have only a 100 amp service, then # 10 copper wire to each car along with a 25 or 30 amp fusing or circuit breaker is sufficient, along with 30 amp outlets (3 wire is sufficient , nema 6-30, etc) since each of the cc units only draw 20 amps. So 2 cars charging together would be 40 amps drain off the 100 amp service. If you went the 40 amp circuit route, along with larger EVSE’s (30 or 32 amp) this would be 60 amps for 2 cars, and that may be straining a 100 amp service. Talk it over with your electrician, keeping in the back of your mind that the Surgeon’s solution to everything is a scapel. So don’t be surprised if he says you need a minimum of 400… Read more »
KenZ
Hi Bill, Thanks for the input. I’ve actually got new 200A service to the house, so I can kinda go wild (kinda). I upgraded a few years ago from 60A (!!!) and wanted to go as high as I could (would have done 300A…) but anything over 200A required a MAJOR cost for the utilities to string new lines or something like that, so I stopped there. Back then I didn’t need more than 60A, but was thinking ahead… an extra $200 spent then has paid off in spades. Regarding your earlier comment, I think you meant 50A _breaker_ for 30A _outlet_, yes? I’m pretty sure you didn’t mean 50A outlet on a 40A breaker!. But that said, I guess my question is why I’d have to overrate the breaker that much? Will a 30/32A EVSE really be too much for a 40A breaker? And yes, do assume that if I put in a 40A breaker, I’m going to run 40A sized wire, not 30A (which I think is required by code anyway). And in my case it’s a short run from the box to the proposed outlets (~10 feet), so there shouldn’t be any significant line losses. Don’t get… Read more »
Hi, its all very simple. You cant fuse or breaker higher than the weakest link in the chain. As I said, 40 amp circuit on a 50 amp outlet is fine ( there is no such thing in the US as a 40 amp outlet, its either 15, 20, 30, 50, or 60 ). If you want to put in the largest plug-in equipment currently available, you could get 2 – Leviton 400’s (40 amp continuous j1772), and run 2 – 50 amp circuts terminating on 2 – nema 6-50’s (welding outlets). Have him use #8 copper if 75 degree centigrade wiring, or #6 aluminum. You’ll notice the continuous load (defined as being > 3 hours) is always 80 % of the breaker/fuse rating. This is to prevent nuisance fuse blowing. You may be wondering how clipper creek can be offering a 20 amp product with a 50 amp plug. This is because the national electrical code (used in 98% of US jurisdictions) allows a “tap” to be within 300% of the circuit rating if under 25 feet long. Notice that on a 40 or 50 amp circuit, the connection points (outlet and plug) HAVE to be at least the… Read more »
KenZ

Aha! Thanks much, that makes sense. Also, totally unrelated to this post but related to your other one on less $ chargers, see my other post on the $350 110/240V 16A EVI charger.

The other zinger here is you would want to abide by the particular EVSE’s manufacturer recommendation to keep their warranties in force. Most 30 amp evse’s require a 40 amp breaker or fuse in your loadcenter, no higher. So a 50 amp breaker might void their warranty, although in actuality it wouldn’t ever cause a failure, since the EVSE itself is supposed to be completely self-protected.

There is in effect no difference in price between a 40 amp or 50 amp circuit, since #8 copper wiring (at 75 deg C) is 50 amps. Aluminum wiring is trivially more expensive (#8 for 40, #6 for 50). Both require 50 amp outlets and plugs.

Kenz,
You can also use this ‘tap’ exception to your advantage if you are using 2 – clipper creek 20 amp units with 6-50 plugs.

If it is cheaper for your electrician to run only 1 50 amp circuit on one 50 amp double pole breaker, he could install two 50 amp outlets on the same circuit. 2 cars charging at 20 amps would be 40 amps total so everything would be fine and legal.

jzj

I’ve been driving EVs for years, and 99% of the time is takes 10 seconds to charge: 5 seconds to plug it in at night, and 5 seconds to unplug it in the morning.

David Murray

This is a decent price for this unit considering the market. However, I agree with what some people say about these things costing too much.

My solution – Stop including an EVSE with the car from the factory. That could lower the MSRP by $500 (assuming companies like Nissan and GM are actually paying that much for these things) and then let people buy their own EVSE either from the dealer or home depot, or whatever. This would create some better competition for aftermarket units. Not only that, but many people who buy an level-2 unit never end up using the L1 that comes with their car. So why include it?

Lad

Dave:
Unless there is something unique about the item I’m buying, the last place I consider is a dealer because of their outrageous prices.

Aaron

It’s nice they’re providing these chargers with the plugs already attached. I got mine a few months ago with bare wire ends. I put a NEMA 14-50 plug on it so I could charge from either a modern dryer outlet or an RV park as needed.

ModernMarvelFan

Clipper Creek LCS-25 series is a nice product line. I have one and I paid the original $899 for it. (early adopter price). I have used it for almost 2 years now and it is very nice unit. light and portable.

It is more than sufficient for my Volt and I already put various adapter plug on it myself.

For the current price, it is no brainer.

However, I still think the modified LEAF EVSE is nicer since it allows you to charge on 120V as well. 1 EVSE for all the plugs….

I wish CC would have added the 120V/240V combo option to the LCS-25.

Just out of curiousity MMF why did u get a $900 clipper creek when you could have gotten a $500 15 amp Voltec if all you are charging is your volt?