Indianapolis City Workers Ordered To Not Plug In At Home: “Thank God Somebody’s House Didn’t Burn Down”

JUL 12 2015 BY JAY COLE 70

What do you do when the city gets you a plug-in car to take home? You plug it in.

Of course what you might not do is check that the 110 receptacle you are using is on a dedicated circuit. So if you didn’t pay attention when they were handing out the keys to your new Volt, you might not realize that plugging in your car alongside a fridge and power tools isn’t such a great idea.

Vision Fleet Deployment In India

Vision Fleet Deployment In Indianapolis (via VF’s annual report)

That is exactly what has happened in the city of Indianapolis with its 140-odd Vision Freedom Fleet plug-in cars for city employees, as 2 receptacles have now overloaded and burned.

The fleet includes the Chevrolet Volt, Nissan LEAF as well as the Ford Fusion Energi.

We don’t find it terribly unexpected really that those who are given a ‘free’ electric vehicle aren’t up (or interested) on exactly how it works, but the decision by Indianapolis public works ordering all employees to not plug-in their EVs due to safety concerns seems a little drastic.

Perhaps just re-informing city workers a little more strongly on how to care for the city’s plug-in cars would have been sufficient.

Department of Public Works spokesman Scott Manning says that city employees and police officers can’t plug-in their EVs until electricians from Vision fleet inspect the homes of each employee to give them the all clear, or note that rewiring is needed.

“They’ll inspect the wiring to make sure the outlet can handle it. Obviously not everyone knows exactly how their house is wired.” Manning said, (via the IndyStar)

Separately, Police spokesperson Rick Snyder, whose officers were already disgruntled with the size of the cars for accommodating all their gear, ratchets up the hyperbole saying that officers have to now worry about the safety of the cars too.

“These vehicles are not working for police. Why weren’t we told about this possibility before? We are talking about plugging a car into someone’s home. Thank God somebody’s house didn’t burn down.”

No word on whether local Police have overcome their fear of total home annihilation and adopted the use of hair dryers and space heaters yet.

Driving Training Session For The Vision Fleet In Indy - "Hey You In The Back, Pay Attention!"

Driving Training Session For The Vision Fleet In Indy – “Hey You In The Back, Pay Attention!”

Vision Fleet had offered to perform home inspections of those city employees given plug-in cars, but the Public Works department declined citing costs, saying they would do it themselves – but never got around to it. The DPW instead opted for training session and manuals outlining instructions on how (and what) to plug your EV into.

The new home inspections should be completed by August and employees will then be reimbursed for the cost of gas over that time that would have been saved by using by electricity.

Earlier, the Mayor’s vision to switch most of the city’s fleet to EVs and hybrids had come under fire due to the business of politics and the no-bid $32 million contract awarded Vision Fleet for 425 plug-in vehicles over seven years.

The Bulk Of The Public Fleet Charging Is Done At Home (statistics through May 2015)

The Bulk Of The Public Fleet Charging Is Done At Home (statistics through May 2015 via Vision Fleet’s annual report)

Councilman Zach Adamson, who is chairman of the Public Works Committee (that apparently opted to not do the home inspections in the first place) and of whom was already suing to have the Vision Fleet contract nullified and a new open bid contract initiated, adds some flavor of his own.

“If Vision Fleet comes in the low bid, I have no problem with that,” but added that if the contract with the company had been open for a “deliberative process” the city might not now be facing “cars burning up”.

Last month Vision Fleet CEO Michael Brylawsi commented on the program in Indianapolis and filed a petition to have the contract legally renewed amidst council’s legal challenges.

“For the past two months, we’ve felt like the rope in a game of tug-of-war between the City and the Council. We’re stuck in the middle, just trying to do the job we were hired to do,” said the Vision Fleet CEO

Aren’t public sector politics great? The real loser here is the image being portrayed of the safety of plug-in cars.

IndyStar

Categories: Charging, General

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70 Comments on "Indianapolis City Workers Ordered To Not Plug In At Home: “Thank God Somebody’s House Didn’t Burn Down”"

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Pushmi-Pullyu

In our litigious society, it’s no wonder that the city ordered those new EV owners to not plug in at home until the wiring had been inspected by an electrician. If somebody’s garage or house burned down, they could sue the city because the fire was a result of the city-issued car.

But I’d argue that the problem here isn’t the city being cautious to the point of being silly. The problem is the American legal system, which makes lawsuits far more common than they should be.

LuStuccc

+1

Joshua Burstyn

Idiots. If you plug any 12A appliance into a poorly or wrongy wired outlet a fire can occur. Not an EV issue per se but thanks for ruining the perception of EVs.

philip d

Even more ridiculous is that a majority of these vehicles are Volts which default to 8 amps when charging on a 120V outlet. You actually have to go into a menu and change it manually each time to charge at 12 amps. I guess GM designed it this way for that very reason.

Phr3d

+1

kdawg

Like the saying goes, “You can make something idiot-proof because they keep inventing better idiots”.

ModernMarvelFan

“can’t”, not “can”

Kevin

+1

Why is this article written as if they are intentionally bad mouthing EV? They have a completely valid reason (preventing personal injury and reducing liability) as well as a documented plan to check homes for safety. All of this seems perfectly reasonable for any institution that would be managing a fleet like this.

kubel

Because they are fearmongering in order to put them in a better legal position to re-negotiate a contract. The very same person fearmongering turned down recommended inspections, claiming too much cost.

Doug

I’m embarrassed to say…born and raised in Indianapolis. Just spend the extra money and have a Level 2 EVSE installed in your garage by a qualified electrician. Why only 2 LEAFs? Hoosier’s don’t trust those Japanese cars! If Ford built a plug-in Explorer the Police would use it but never plug it in. It’s all about education. Teach the city workers how to safely plug in their car at home and there won’t be anymore problems.

Nicholas

Average and unfortunate fear mongering.

safety guy

Stop crying …what’s fear mongering about the article? This is sickening to hear an EV owner cry…

Kevin

+100

Mister G

The problem is nobody reads owners manuals.

John

Sounds like a perfect storm of incompetence, ignorance, fear, and resistance to change/fear of anything new.

All they had to do was educate people, or better, get people who are actually willing to educate themselves about new things, and offer a free inspection of wiring up front.

It takes an awful lot of abuse to do any substantial damage to a home wired correctly and to code in the last 20 or 30 years. Burning down is very unlikely (possible, but very rare). Maybe, maybe if they had really old knob and tube wiring or something grossly wrong with the wiring. In most cases, all you’d do is trip a breaker or pop a fuse.

Mike I

It is very unlikely that the wiring itself is an issue in the homes. The more likely problem is the outlet itself. Most 120V household outlets are not good for continuous use. The outlets that use the push-in wire termination are the worst in this regard. However, electricians love them because they can be installed in about 1/10th the time. If they simply changed the garage outlets to ones that have proper screw termination, the risk would be nearly eliminated.

Speculawyer

Well if those outlets do not perform as their specifications say, I would call that a problem with the home wiring (the outlets are faulty).

Joshua Burstyn

Exactly. Poor wiring isnt something car manufacturers should be required to deal with. We had an issue with a 14-50 outlet but we didnt blame the car… the issue was the wiring was making poor contact at the receptacle. Even then the breaker tripped like it was supposed to.

safety guy

Your right ……it’s not the equipment. Unless your home is brand new …I bet each one of us has a plug we wouldn’t use for a big watt heater or any other high drawing equipment. Most ppl don’t even know what they panel is rated at…let alone how many amps it could handle..

safety guy

I am so tired of EV owners thinking they know anything about safety….or electrical hazards….or what will burn a house down and what wont…..stick to driving your car and let us safety experts stick to safety. The City was right to tell their employees not to charge at home.
All you guys are speculating….even the evse manufacturer say to plug into a dedicated circuit. You know it all are going to be the ones who ruined this industry by talking out the side of your neck…
“John” you definitely don’t know what your talking about…you have not a clue of the many unreported incidents of melted wiring,circuit breaker failures due to charging stations….we get calls from all over the world on this topic….the bottom line is….this is new technology and there will be problems and we have to sort through it….just because someone wrote an article about doesn’t meant they will scare people…it’s the truth and it happens more than you know…

Tony Williams

Plugging into the wall electrical outlet is NOT “new technology”.

Those same outlets will overload and burn with space heaters, et al.

Clearly, the city / council seems to have stumbled on the inspection part. I would go one step further and have the city install a hard wired 240v EVSE at each employee charge location (perhaps, with some fee if that employee quits employment or stops driving electric within XX months).

A simple 20 amp circuit should handle all those cars for an overnight charge. It sounds like the police dudes won’t plug in at all to protest.

Bill Howland
I for one am not speculating, and have been grilled in forums like this for being too much of a worry wart when I feel my concerns are jusified. 2 examples. 1). GM with the Volt for instance I feel is held harmless. The Owner’s manual clearly states the 8 or 12 amp charger brick is a “High Power device”, and the higher setting should only be used after evaluation of the proposed recepticle by someone Competant. 2). The Tesla attachment supposedly Nema 14-50 compatible male plug overheats at 40 amps due to excessive current density. Tesla has ‘fixed’ this twice with 2 kludges, which admittedly have minimized fires. A). By limiting the current of the car to 80% of the initial draw if the droop is too large, but then this method is dumb since it gives so many false positives. They should use the car’s GPS rather as the Roadster did, and compare the current droop to the historical droop before automatically assuming there’s a problem, other than the intrinsic one, or at least offering the owner the option of ignoring it if is just due to normal droop in the line. B). When the 80% current level… Read more »
Speculawyer

Uh before we start blaming everyone . . .

“2 receptacles have now overloaded and burned.”

Why did this happen? If circuit is overloaded then the breaker should trip. Were these outlets only rated for 10 amps or something?

I’d like to know exactly why this happened. Perhaps faulty wiring in the homes?

Speculawyer

If EVs cannot easily be plugged into existing 110V outlets then EVs have a problem. People are going to do that and if lots of houses burn down, EVs are going to get a bad reputation even if it is the fault of bad home wiring.

Joshua Burstyn

I disagree. We have building codes for a reason.

Steven

And yet, we also have people who consider that “needless government over-regulation”.

And sadly, I know some of them.

philip d

My Volt will revert to 8 amp charging unless I go into a menu and tell it to charge at 12 amps. I bet most of these employees don’t even know this and are just charging over 10 hours at 8 amps. That’s a charge rate of 880 W. The computer I’m typing on now will use that much at full tilt when I’m rendering on 3D software. An Xbox One uses around 600 W.

If my outlet catches on fire is that the problem of the PC companies or gaming console companies or is it the fault of my wiring and breakers? The problem is it’s easy to spread bad PR but it’s incredibly hard to spread information to refute bad PR.

philip d

Other appliances that have caused fires but don’t get the attention and hysteria that EVs receive. You can do a search and the list of examples will on and on and on but you don’t see people being hysterical about their laptops and gaming consoles trying to kill them. People are irrational about EVs.

http://www.kktv.com/home/headlines/Firefighters-Wii-Likely-Cause-of-RV-Fire-304664101.html

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2767813/Family-home-destroyed-massive-fire-sparked-brand-new-LAPTOP-overheating-left-charging-bed.html

http://archive.thv11.com/news/story.aspx?storyid=64203

safety guy

We are not talking about other appliances…..we are talking about EVs….hence the website…stop crying

martinwinlow

And I think you should stop being silly. Nicholas’ point was relevant and valid. No-one’s house burned down here. The article and the ‘story’ behind it are typical over-hyped, anti-EV (or anything new), media twaddle. Can we move on now?

kubel

I guarantee every one of these fires are due to improperly wired outlets or faulty wiring. Like you said, the breaker will protect the circuit regardless of the load. If there’s a fire, something is faulty- and it’s probably not the EVSE.

I’ve had my car on a non-dedicated garage circuit for the past year and a half with no issues.

Also, don’t Volts default to something like 8a factory?

James

This would indicate the Indy Volts are 2011 or 2012 models. 2013 was the first year GM configured the 8amp default setting. Previously, there was a setting on the EVSE itself, but the default was 12amps. Data that many people plugging into their 120 outlets were tripping their breakers lead to the change by GM.

Most likely, these incidents occurred because the cars were charging at 12amps.

Djoni

Hum.
Sorry for you, but the breaker does not trip every time there’s a wrong connection or wiring.
Breaker, or fuses, act on overload, not on overheating at any point in the circuit.
And an innapropriate outlet feeding an EVSE continuoustly can overheat enough to initiate a fire, even tough the charger will only pull 8 amp.
There’s also fire being iniated with much lower current in arcing fault.
Just to show the case, it’s prohibited here in Québec to charge an EV on regular outlet.
It has to be an 20 amps dedicated circuit from start to finish with #12 AWG copper wire, that no home have in regular outlet.
Many, many EV owner don’t know that and learn it the hard way.
That being said, Indianapolis city ain’t reacting appropriatly.
This thing is easily fix with a qualified trademen.

safety guy

And when and if your home burns down, you will be the first one to sue the industry.
Your playing Russian roulette my friend..

Kevin Cowgill

As a service electrician with too many years of experience troubleshooting in homes, be very, very careful. The outlet used, or other outlets on that circuit, can act almost like fuses and overheat. I find burned up outlets all the time. Not just because of EVs. Residential grade outlets are not intended for continuous use (let’s go ahead and call them cheap) and terminations can be fast and light. Sometimes it takes months, maybe years for these connections to fail. (I suspect EVs will cause these circuit failures a whole lot faster)I strongly recommend dedicated, 20 amp circuits with quality, commercial grade receps for level 1 charging. None of that quick, wires stabbed in the back of the outlet crap. Cheap outlets and multiple outlet/device circuits can overheat and fail without tripping any circuit breakers. That’s my 2 cents dammit….

Bill Howland
That’s true. As far as the comment made that 120 year old knob and tube wiring would be a problem, I don’t foresee any problem an 8 amp volt or elr would have on a lightly loaded K&T circuit as long as there was a good specification grade outlet at the car end, and the fuse blocks were in good condition at the service end. This is why I question UL these days. In decades past, they LISTED equipment that met MINIMUM safety. Now we have all this Recognized and Categorized crap, which just confuses the issue. Push on stab outlets should NEVER have been allowed at any time. The proper way to do it would have a BOX LUG built into the outlet for a solid substantial connection. Of course, the homes built 40 years ago with aluminum wiring AND the (illegal) copper only back wired stab outlets were just asking for trouble. Most homes that were built with aluminum branch circuits were firestarters from the start, since if the contractor had used the proper devices there would have been not much savings over using copper wiring, and there definitely wouldn’t have been any savings using COPPER-CLAD wiring, which… Read more »
Stephen Hodges

I agree, having toasted 110V outlets, 240V British “13 amp” square pin plugs and even a 20A L6 twist lock, I am very aware of the effects of the long charge. L6 20 amp outlets on everything seems to be stable now (but if I get a 7 KW inverter on a newer Leaf I’ll have to change everything to 30A!

Pushmi-Pullyu
Speculawyer said: “Uh before we start blaming everyone . . . ” ‘2 receptacles have now overloaded and burned.’ “Why did this happen? If circuit is overloaded then the breaker should trip. Were these outlets only rated for 10 amps or something? “I’d like to know exactly why this happened. Perhaps faulty wiring in the homes?” Perhaps it’s not a simple either/or question of faulty / not faulty. Older houses generally don’t have electrical panels built to supply as many amps as more modern houses. And no matter how robust or well-built the electrical system is, if you plug too many appliances into one circuit, you’ll overload something. Sure, any electrical system is designed to trip the circuit breaker (or, in older houses, blow the fuse) instead of overheat the outlet to the point that it starts a fire. But overloading a circuit is dangerous, even when safety systems are in place. I think any electrician would advise that for any appliance (if an EV can properly be called an “appliance”) which draws several amps for hours a day on a regular basis, it would be best to be on a separate circuit. Even if it’s only Level 1 charging.… Read more »
Doug

This would be a great PR opportunity for Evgo, ChargePoint, Blink, Leviton or Plugless…ect to go in and save the city of Indianapolis.

Brian_Henderson

Curious how the city of Indianapolis is reimbursing employees for charging city vehicles at home?

Clearly there is no dedicated circuit, or meter to measure energy use like there is with fueling the Volt at a gas station. A receipt can be obtained at a gas station; but with the Volt it’s more complicated as uses both electric and gas, so just measuring milage is not enough to determine electrical energy usage.

Pushmi-Pullyu

Companies typically refund employees at a flat number of cents per mile, regardless of the fact that different gasmobiles may have a big difference in cost per mile. That reimbursement scheme will work just as well for a PHEV like the Volt as it will for a gasmobile. It’s not necessary for the employer to get down into the weeds of how many gas-powered miles vs. how many electric-powered ones an employee drives.

It might make sense to have a different cost-per-mile reimbursement for BEVs vs. PHEVs, considering the lower cost for electricity than gas. But I don’t think it’s reasonable to ask for a different calculation for each employee.

Chuck

Apparently the City reimburses employees each month for their home charging expenses. The telematics devices installed on the vehicles can tell them how much energy is used in charging the vehicle each time it’s plugged in.

Terry

The Volt has a lower setting on the GM charger. The city should have their employees always use the lower setting. It would be nice if Chevrolet would have a trickle charge for long time stays.

James

“No word on whether local Police have overcome their fear of total home annihilation and adopted the use of hair dryers and space heaters yet.”

LOL. Exactly. That about says it all.

This shows there is still that hump to get over for many who believe those new-fangled electric cars are dangerous. I still hear it quite often today.

Dave86

Hmmmm…. $32M for 425 electric cars? For 7 years? That’s $75,294.12 per EV. Exactly was services does Vision Fleet provide with each of those electric cars?

If Vision Fleet was smart, they would offer free instillation of a charger in each city employee’s home that is receiving a car and in the process, check the necessary wiring. All free of course.

None

For that price, they should give each employee 2 cars to keep. They will still make money!

Chuck

It’s not just the EVs I don’t think…they’re paying for any gas, electricity, and maintenance on those vehicles over the 7-year period, as well as workplace charging stations at the offices where they’re based during the workday.

ydnas7

local police would not issue hair dryers or space heaters due for use in circuits that have not been cleared by electricians.

Furthermore, every piece of plugin equipment with a cable probably requires annual safety inspections and signatures. Even for something as small as a mobile phone recharger.

Clif J

… and plugging 1200 watt space heaters into weak old outlets with sad old wiring, allowing them to operate unattended in garages, has caused a number of fires. If the device is a L1 EVSE instead, the fire burns just as brightly. The problem is not EVs or EVSEs, or course, but even the guy with whom I swapped leases for my Leaf strongly discouraged L1 charging for safety reasons. So do I. 120vac and American-styled outlets are a problem; age of both the outlet and wiring can make it doubly so.

Pushmi-Pullyu

Could you please expand on that? What is inferior about American-style outlets, and what is the alternative? European style?

Bill Howland
American problems: 1). Cheap outlets in the past which never should have been Listed by Underwriter’s Laboratories (roughly analogous to ‘CE’). Most outlets today are pretty good. 2). 40-50 year old homes with aluminum branch circuits that were intentionally wired to be fire starters. Why intentionally? The only way the contractor could save ANY $$$ was to improperly wire the houses. Doing a legal job with aluminum at the time wouldn’t have saved any money due to the increased cost of proper aluminum-rated devices. But the contractors couldn’t take the time to do the requisite shining and greasing of the connections. The proper way would have been to spend an extra penny per foot and put in copper clad aluminum wiring which could use the copper only devices. But again, I fault UL. American and Canadian Level I ‘charger bricks’ which come with the car and either charge at 8 or 12 amps can be very safely run with #14 copper wiring (the smallest legal general purpose wiring available) with 15 amp fuses or circuit brakers, as long as ‘specification – grade’ outlets are used where the car is plugged in. The problem with the car is that, unlike a… Read more »
Djoni

True, but not optimal.
14 gauge wire can handle the load but they are heating all along, much more with 12 amps setting, but some outlet might be a long way off the panel and there is a voltage drop that a thinner gauge will agravate.
This mean heat at the wrong place all along the wire run and the longer it is the more probability you have that wire is running in very well insulated area or close to heat source, atic, sun expose wall or hot water plumbing that a thicker gauge would greatly reduce the combine effect.
Nevertheless, you right about the receptacle being the primary source of any trouble.
I would even go for industrial grade outlet for that reason.
One thing that have adverse effect is if someone is countinuoussy plug and unplug any devise as this will eventually loose the connection of any outlet and lead to poor contact and, as you know it, excess heat and trouble. Fire being the worst outcome.

Bill Howland
Hehe, this is the concept of what Jesus said ‘Straining out the GNAT but gulping down the CAMEL’. Old 60 degree centigrade wiring with #14 could easily withstand 20 or more amps (since only 2 current carrying wires in most cases), and were only limited at 15 amps, so there was already conservatism built into those old designs for being near sunlight, buried in insulation, etc. Modern homes (within the past 20 years) use 90 deg C insulation with the #14 wiring being able to handle 25 (or more) amps, again since usually only 2 c-c-w’s being limited to 15 amps is even more conservative, especially since the car limits the draw to either 8 or 12. I charge my volt and ELR usually at 110 using my old VOLT #16 gauge (much smaller than the #14 wiring feeding the outlet) and at 12 amps the cord to the car is warm but safe. As far as level 2 goes, those units generally are better but not always. My SChneider EVLINK overheated at the car cord due to a bone-headed faston design which I immediately got rid of since my Roadster charged at 30 amps for 9 hours. Calling schneider… Read more »
Murrysville EV

This is what circuit breakers are for.

pete

Sorry, but circuit breakers don’t know if there is a fire at the receptacle. Standard residential breakers-not gfi- only open when the trip rating is exceeded. Poor connections generate heat, they don’t trip breakers unless they are in the breaker or breaker terminals. An old or worn out receptacle can have red hot terminals without exceeding the rated capacity of the circuit. Remember the old law, resistance x current squared = watts. 8 amps flowing through a 1 ohm resistance generates 64 watts of heat. This will cause a receptacle to get very hot. Try putting a 75 watt incandescent bulb in a shoe box and see what happens.

safety guy

Good job Pete explaining that……now only if ppl can absorb it and stop blaming websites for writing about thing….

ModernMarvelFan

So, if an inproperly operating 120V/15A outlet burns up due to the car operating at 120V/12A, is it the fault of the owner/electrical outlet or the fault of the car?

Bill Howland

Its the fault of the owner with GM products since their Owner’s Manual clearly states the proposed Recepticle MUST be evaluated by a competant inspection prior to use at 12 amps, in so many words.

Loboc

Any stats on Christmas tree fires? People are stupid.

Bill Howland

Electrical fires in the US from christmas trees will be way down for 2 reasons:

1). All new Christmas tree lighting strings are now fused at the plug.

2). Bulbs dont get as hot since the c7’s have been lowered from 7 to 4 watts, and the c9’s (outdoor) have been lowered to 7 from 10

3). Many people are just buying the cool running LED models.

Kevin Cowgill

Maybe the AFCI circuit breaker could be useful in level 1 charging. (Arc Fault Current Interupter) The intent is to prevent residential fires anyway. I don’t know about nuisance tripping though. Fires are nobody’s idea of fun, certainly.

Nix

I wonder if any of those homes had any of the recalled (or should have been recalled) circuit breakers from Siemens, Federal Pacific Electric, Zinsco, and other makers:

http://www.cpsc.gov/en/Recalls/2010/Siemens-Recalls-Circuit-Breakers-Due-to-Fire-Hazard/

http://www.ismypanelsafe.com/

http://wemakeitsafer.com/Circuit-Breakers-Interrupters-Recalls

Or if they had any of these problems:

http://www.electrical-forensics.com/Receptacles/ElectricalReceptacles.html

Bill Howland
Zinsco, supposedly popular out west, were a joke. I’ve never had any problem with Federal Pacific, even the mini’s… But the full sized breakers had very substantial copper stabs. I have seen an old 20 amp cutler hammer (sandlewood – prior to EATON buying them) MELT a #12 wire into 2 pieces. The breaker buzzed at the thousands of amps fault current but never tripped. NEW CH breakers, since Eaton took over, seem much more reliable. The mini GE’s, especially the mini GE 50 amp things that will probably be used for Tesla 14-50 installations scare me. There simply isn’t enough stab area there to work – especially going onto an aluminum bus. The full size GE THQL or TQL’s are fine. Since QO (square – D) have lousy stabs, they are ‘overrated’. I know they are the “#1 choice of electricians”, and “The World’s Finest”, according to themselves. Actually the dirt cheap homeline crap is better!!! The absolute worst breakers I’ve ever seen were the company that initially replaced FPE, that being CHALLENGER. I had a 225 amp panel melt a stab when the total panel load was only 80 amps. Other electricians had to change out brand new… Read more »
Bonaire

UL stands for “yoU’ll Learn”. Shoddy equipment gets through UL underwriting all the time.

Lots of reviews indicate employee and management issues at the lab.

http://www.glassdoor.com/Reviews/Underwriters-Laboratories-Reviews-E3979.htm

Bill Howland

I’ve never trusted UL since they fired their head tester who couldn’t get floors constructed as the WTC 1 and 2 to collapse or catch fire as the fairy tale goes.

Or how about the WTC 7 Saloman Bros 48 storey building that the BBC had reported as collapsed with the STILL STANDING WTC 7 in the background, and of course, as the 20 minutes got close to the zero hour the BBC english broadcast suddenly went off the air.. Someone must have realized that it would be somewhat embarrasing to have the building collapse real time while the ‘presenter’ was still talking about the ‘historical event’.

Know why they goofed up on the propaganda? Its called ‘Daylight Savings Time’ which Londoners arent generally aware of in September.

abc123

I would gladly pay for an EVSE that could detect an overheating receptacle, and either lower the current draw or halt charging until the receptacle cools down.

probably could put a temp sensor inside the 3 prong plug and monitor the temps.

Or maybe sell a separate device that sits between the receptacle and EVSE that specifically monitors temps in both the receptacle and EVSE plug for signs of excessive heat.

Bill Howland
Or how about buying equipment that just works, is cool-running, visually substantial, and you never have to worry about it or put sensors on it since it simply will never go bad in 100 years? My 1959 home was built with Hubble spec grade 2 wire outlets, except for 3 wire for the laundry. A few outlets have been changed in the interim (microwave, fridge, washroom) to 3 wire, but otherwise the outlets run cool even when intentially loaded up to 20 amps (in 2 recepticles), and the spring tension on the attachment plugs is amazing even after 56 years. In view of the past 56 these things will easily last 100 years. The first owner did his own wiring and bought his own materials, which were all spec-grade or the equivalent. Contrast that with 10 year newer homes that have been rewired at least once to get rid of the poorly installed aluminum wiring, and are usually on their 3RD electric service. I’m on the original 100 amp service, with the original Bull-Dog loadcenter, and everything is cool running, even when I test loaded it up to 100 amps. Its a conservation of resources since nothing has ever had… Read more »
Aaron

Aluminum wiring by itself is safe. Using copper writing outlets instead of CO/ALR is the major problem there because of overheating and arcing. As long as you use the correct outlets and don’t overheat things, aluminum wiring is safe.

Bill Howland

Wrong my friend… Just doing what you said will start many fires.

It also has to be correctly installed. Namely 270 degrees minimum wrap on the screw terminals with the brittle aluminum wire. And the wiring has to be shined (to eliminate the aluminum oxide, an insulator), and greased with oxy-ban or no-ox to keep the air out so that the connection doesn’t deteriorate. And no nicked wires. And no excessive ‘working’ since it makes the wire even more brittle and subject to snapping. If connections are arcing, a burned down house is not far away.

Small aluminum wire was removed quietly from manufacture by the manufacturers themselves.

And insurance companies disagree with you and more surprisingly with the NFPA. (uh, NEC). They do not accept the NFPA’s position on aluminum wire, they only will accept ‘alumicons’, and usually insist on wholesale replacement of bathroom and kitchen wiring, since the damage will have migrated into the walls and changing the splice will not correct the damaged beyond repair wiring.

Don

Wait a minute, so over a 100,000 public employees at the City of Indianapolis get company cars? That’s what we should be outraged about!