UPDATE – Possible Chevy Bolt Battery Cell Failure Prompts GM Statement / Recall

APR 10 2018 BY ERIC LOVEDAY 174

In general, electric cars are known to be highly reliable and battery cell issues usually aren’t a concern.

***UPDATE – GM has released a couple of clarification statements to InsideEVs. You’ll find these clarifications at the appropriate points in the text below.

Of course, for every generalization there are examples that don’t fit the mold.

And then there are those standouts, that for some reason exceed all expectations.

Just like any other advanced product out there, you should expect to see a few bad apples here and there and that’s what we’re now witnessing in connection to the 2017 Chevrolet Bolt.

Our friends over at Electric Revs have been covering this issue for quite some time now, but it just recently became more broad with General Motors acknowledging and attempting to address the problem.

First up, some background.

Faulty cells in some 2017 Model Year Year Chevy Bolts have been found to lead to a no propulsion problem where the car loses drive power. In some circumstances, this could potentially be very dangerous. GM has been monitoring this problem via its OnStar app, which actually keeps an eye on battery health. It now appears that GM is convinced of a possible problem.

Early last week, the automaker began sending notices to all 2017 Bolt owners. Here’s a sample notice via Electric Revs:

GM’s actions are perhaps a bit unexpected. Rather than seeking out affected units and replacing cells or battery packs, the automaker says it will perform a software update that will “ provide additional warnings if a battery cell low voltage condition occurs, which could cause the vehicle to reduce or lose propulsion.” 

***GM statement added – Chris Bonelli, Coordinator, Global Advanced Technology Communications:

“We continue to monitor Bolt EVs in the field via OnStar and are proactively contacting owners to have their batteries serviced as soon as our diagnostics confirm batteries are suspect. The software calibration is an additional measure for our customers’ safety.”

Here’s GM’s full statement on the matter:

“GM issued a customer satisfaction bulletin today asking 2017 Bolt EV customers to contact their dealer to schedule service for a software update. This action is not a safety recall. The new calibration software will provide additional warnings if a battery cell low voltage condition occurs, which could cause the vehicle to reduce or lose propulsion. Only some vehicles may experience the battery low voltage cell condition, but we are asking all 2017 vehicles to participate in the program.”

So, if you own a 2017 Bolt (2018s are apparently not affected by this), then you’ll be asked/required to bring your car in for a software update free of charge. This update won’t fix faulty cells (software can’t work miracles), but it will provide you with an advanced warning if a cell is failing and that should allow you time to remove your vehicle from the roadway prior to complete power loss.

The recall has not yet been posted on the NHTSA site, but should show up there soon.

***GM statement added:

“As the GM statement reads, this is not a safety recall. It will not be posted on the NHTSA website as such.”

Source: Electric Revs

Categories: Chevrolet

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174 Comments on "UPDATE – Possible Chevy Bolt Battery Cell Failure Prompts GM Statement / Recall"

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bro1999
Guest

Just to be clear, the % of affected 2017 units is still very small (<1% from what I've heard), but this update is being applied to all '17 Bolts out of an abundance of caution to make sure any Bolts that are eventually affected by the low voltage condition don't immediately die on the road.

My Nov '16 build Bolt with over 18k miles on it is still going strong. I'll eventually get the update applied, but no rush to do so. I have a way to monitor the cell voltages anyways, so I can see if one of the cells is going bad.

john1701a
Guest

Hopefully there will be civil discourse on the matter. Unfortunately, the bad precedent has been set… by GM supporters no less… that any type of after-the-fact update is a crisis.

It’s a sad reality when a very small number of vehicles are affected and even fewer will actually experience an issue that the situation is blown way out of proportion by those wanting to impede progress.

History can teach us to look at things like this objective, because if you don’t, it will come back to bite you.

Stimpacker
Guest
Stimpacker

Well, more info would have been helpful.
All 2017 models? Can’t narrow it down?
Will it happen if battery soc is above say 20%?
How much advanced notice will the software update provide?

Doesn’t matter if it is less than 1% chance. Imagine telling your wife:
Your car may stop anytime.
You may get rear ended.
Software update may give you X minute/mile warning.

This isn’t FUD, any owner will want to know. Will you be going on 100 mile trips with your family and taking that chance?

terminaltrip421
Guest
terminaltrip421

I know, right? nothing like this ever happens with an ICE. or maybe you’ve never had a serpentine belt go. or your fuel pump. or clogged injectors. not only will they have similar outcomes but if you attempt to continue to drive them assuming you haven’t lost power you will potentially to irrevocable damage to the pistons, cylinders etc.

MTN Ranger
Guest
MTN Ranger

I’ve had the thermostat and coolant system blow out that also instantly disabled an ICE car. Lots of things can go wrong with ICEs.

terminaltrip421
Guest
terminaltrip421

oh I also lost my fuel line once and not only did I lose all power but I was breathing noxious fumes and spilling gas everywhere.

stimpacker
Guest
stimpacker

Nope, none of your “crap” ever happened to me in my ICE. All of my ICE vehicles have never suddenly died.

Besides, are you saying any owner of an ICE vehicle has a 1% chance of getting stranded every time? I hate to call BS, but what else can this be?

Also, where did @bro1999 hear that this is < 1% chance?

PS: I'm not a Tesla fanboi, since @PP called me a FUDster, Liar and Russian Troll when recently commented on a Tesla topic.

Pushmi-Pullyu
Guest
Pushmi-Pullyu

I’d say the evidence is pretty strong that you were not a Tesla fanboy well before that.

Stimpacker
Guest
Stimpacker

@PP,
Stay on topic. Personal attacks are immature and will only lead to moderation. You don’t know how much I’ve been doing to promote EVs, especially Tesla.

Pushmi-Pullyu
Guest
Pushmi-Pullyu

Stating an observed fact, without saying anything that could even remotely be considered a pejorative, is a “personal attack”?

WOW! dude. Take a stress tab and chill out!

Nope. Noting when someone keeps singling out one single auto maker for negative, biased, and mostly untrue comments, especially off-topic ones… that isn’t a personal attack, either. It’s an objective factual observation.

Knut Erik Ballestad
Guest
Knut Erik Ballestad

So, for how many of your EV’s have this happened then?
– just curious

Sean
Guest
Sean

GM has stated in several other cases talking about battery failure that it’s less than 1%. Anecdotal evidence on the forums and communities supports this.

Even in the case of cell failure, almost always it is proactively notified, resulting in no loss of function to the end user. Even when it happens unexpectedly, there has always been at least a few minutes between the warning and complete failure, long enough to get safely off the road.

earl colby pottinger
Guest
earl colby pottinger

Another thing, I don’t know why the failure took place but maybe the GM system is shutting down the car before something worse happens.

The shutdown may be the best thing to happen in-fact. Example, what do you want a car that goes dead or a car that damages the batteries?

Until we get all the fact I am glad that I plan on getting a Tesla or a Bottinger, but I will not blame GM for making the safe choice for their cars.

Jeffhre
Guest
Jeffhre

Is that a problem? I thought it was a normal feature, happened about every 60 days with my ’68 VW bug!

DonC
Guest
DonC

Better to have them pile into your Tesla which will run into a barrier and kill them all?

Tesla fanboys crack me up.

Pushmi-Pullyu
Guest
Pushmi-Pullyu

Why, thank you so much for your utterly off-topic anti-Tesla FUD. That added so much to rational discussion of the issue. Putin also thanks you for being a useful idiot for his Russian troll farms, which are trying to spread divisiveness and tribalism in America and other Western countries.

Mark.ca
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Mark.ca

I agree. Sitting duck in the middle of the freeway is better…it gives you time to make that last phone call.

Sean
Guest
Sean

Even in the case of battery failure, even without the update, you still get at least a couple of minutes between being notified of reduced propulsion failure and battery being totally dead.

(⌐■_■) Trollnonymous
Guest
(⌐■_■) Trollnonymous
Bill Howland
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Bill Howland

All cars get improved software over its model Life. My roadster got ‘improved’ software that told you the battery was going dead about 2 years into the 4 years I owned it.

The fact that software will now give me an advanced warning of any battery connection problems is only a PLUS in my book.

Mark D.
Guest
Mark D.

If this was a Tesla there’d be viral clickbait articles on it announcing the end of Tesla. Of course if it was a Tesla it would be solved by an OTA update. Why can’t GM do what Tesla has done for years? That said I’m glad they have a fix.

Vexar
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Vexar

Their contract with OnStar can’t handle the cost of the data nor can the network handle the data rate. That’s my guess.

Sean
Guest
Sean

I find this highly unlikely. The cost of data would be trivial compared to the cost of paying the dealer to do the fix.

I think it’s more likely that OTA updates are limited to infotainment system only, for either security or reliability concerns.

ClarksonCote
Guest
ClarksonCote

My understanding is that GM is fixing this via an OTA update. That is what is in the letter they sent to Bolt EV owners.

Brian
Guest
Brian

Breaking news: Looks like GM is going to roll out this update OTA! Here is the email they sent me:

Dear General Motors Customer:

As the owner of a 2017 model year Chevrolet Bolt EV, your satisfaction with our product is very important to us. This letter is to inform you of new software updates that will soon be available for your vehicle. Depending on its configuration, your vehicle may require two updates. The software updates will improve phone connectivity, display resolution, rear camera operation, and prevent instances of intermittent screen freezing. The updates will also remove certain video playback functionality and improve the ability to perform software updates to your radio. This service will be provided for you at no charge.

We are rolling out the software updates to vehicle owners in phases beginning April 2018 through August 2018. Updates will be performed remotely, through in-vehicle prompts from the radio display. When a software update package becomes available for your vehicle, you will be notified through those in-vehicle prompts. To ensure successful completion of the update, please review the enclosed information.

Bob A
Guest

That is the same EMAIL I received . nothing about the battery. I have a 2017 Bolt built in AUG 2017, never had one problem with the vehicle.

Jeff S
Guest
Jeff S
GM is in fact starting OTA updates for Bolt EV owners. Here are the contents of my latest email from GM. No trip to the dealer needed–yay. Dear General Motors Customer: As the owner of a 2017 model year Chevrolet Bolt EV, your satisfaction with our product is very important to us. This letter is to inform you of new software updates that will soon be available for your vehicle. Depending on its configuration, your vehicle may require two updates. The software updates will improve phone connectivity, display resolution, rear camera operation, and prevent instances of intermittent screen freezing. The updates will also remove certain video playback functionality and improve the ability to perform software updates to your radio. This service will be provided for you at no charge. We are rolling out the software updates to vehicle owners in phases beginning April 2018 through August 2018. Updates will be performed remotely, through in-vehicle prompts from the radio display. When a software update package becomes available for your vehicle, you will be notified through those in-vehicle prompts. To ensure successful completion of the update, please review the enclosed information. The download and installation of the software updates will occur in… Read more »
floydboy
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floydboy

BINGO! We have a winner!

Volt Fan
Guest
Volt Fan

Hi, John! Seems you were kicked out of “Gm-Volt” and now wander into this site. BTW, I have seen several Toyota Prius being towed. My dentist had one, and had to change its battery. He now owns a Hybrid. So toyota has many bad battery problems. And Ford sold more Fusion Hybrids in March than Toyota Prius (see the scorecard).

John Ebbinghaus
Guest

Does anyone have knowledge of what causes to low voltage?? Is it a defect in the battery or a defect in the battery connections?? If in the connections then Prohmtect.com has the answer.

CDAVIS
Guest
CDAVIS

Looks like @bro1999 is somewhat a hypocrite on the topic of recalls:

@bro1999 said: “Elon doesn’t have time to do proper road testing when he’s trying to save the world! Or some crap like that.”

https://insideevs.com/tesla-recalls-all-pre-april-2016-model-s-for-steering-wheel-issue/

ffbj
Guest
ffbj

Well what do you expect. If there is a whiff of hint of something wrong with Tesla he’s all over it and just the opposite with GM. He’s suddenly apologetic and explanatory.
So if you’re of the opinion his opinion is not to be trusted, I would have to agree. At least in regards to these two companies and their products.

Tech01x
Guest
Tech01x

More than just a GM shill, I think bro1999 is a TSLA shorter.

So much for all the same team.

Pushmi-Pullyu
Guest
Pushmi-Pullyu

Yup. It would be nice to think that even those in the anti-Tesla crowd are really EV supporters, but if you look at the majority of their posts, it’s clear they have a different motive for commenting here.

Volt Fan
Guest
Volt Fan

That was not written by Elon Musk.

Tech01x
Guest
Tech01x

GM just can’t help itself.

According to GM, “only some vehicles may experience the battery low voltage cell condition… As the GM statement reads, this is not a safety recall. It will not be posted on the NHTSA website as such”

The statement would have been fine ending with “only some vehicles may experience the battery low voltage cell condition,” but of course GM has to make absolutely certain the narrative ends with the typical defensive GM spin, adding the “As the GM statement reads, this is not a safety recall.”

I mean really? It’s like that friend that starts a fight, then apologizes, but then goes “But you were in the wrong too! Right?? Not just me!”. *facepalm*

Seriously… facepalm, bro1999.

CDAVIS
Guest
CDAVIS

+1 … well played.

bro1999
Guest

I’ll lend you my hand next time you need a facepalm. Fist even. 😀

Let me know when a GM car under control of a factory semi autonomous driving feature kills someone like AP, mmmkay?

Pushmi-Pullyu
Guest
Pushmi-Pullyu

Hundreds of people die in crashes in GM cars every day. Those accidents are so common that they’re not news. No need for anything fancy like “Autopilot” to have a fatal accident in a GM car.

Now, how about we actually talk about the subject here, rather than you serial Tesla bashers always dragging the conversation off topic and into the gutter?

Dan
Guest
Dan

Gross exageration. +/- 110 persons/day (including pedestrians) die from motor vehicle related causes in the US. GM share maybe 20-25%.

Pushmi-Pullyu
Guest
Pushmi-Pullyu

Fact check:

Mr. Google says “Nearly 1.3 million people die in road crashes each year, on average 3,287 deaths a day. ” GM has about an 8% global automobile market share. Simple math indicates ~263 deaths per day by people either in GM cars, or pedestrians hit by them.

Some friendly advice: The next time you consider challenging me on my facts, you might want to check yours first.

ClarksonCote
Guest
ClarksonCote

Are you really trying to compare general accidents to a vehicle that can actively steer its passengers into a median?

ClarksonCote
Guest
ClarksonCote

Also, Dan was referencing US crashes and you were referencing global. You’re both right.

Knut Erik Ballestad
Guest
Knut Erik Ballestad

Dan *assumed* (accidentally or willfully) that Pushmi-Pullyu was referencing US numbers.
– Anyway, when someone finds that others wrongfully make assumptions wrt your statements you should clarify it, just like Pushmi-Pullyu did.

Dan was only right if this was accidentally (which *you* *assume*), if not he was trying to play the thread.

ClarksonCote
Guest
ClarksonCote

Pushmi didn’t specify in his OP US or Global numbers, so I wouldn’t personally fault Dan too much for assuming US.

Pushmi-Pullyu
Guest
Pushmi-Pullyu

@Knut Erik Ballestad

Thank you, sir, for your entirely correct assessment.

Philip
Guest
Philip

Isn’t it true that ANY car will steer you into something (actively or otherwise) if you neglect to hold the steering wheel? The facts are that you have a much reduced chance of being involved in an accident, EVEN if you ignore all the warnings AND plain common sense!

ClarksonCote
Guest
ClarksonCote

I’m not claiming that Tesla is some dangerous machine here. Truthfully I disagree with both generalizations but the assertion that any accident of a brand could be equated to accidents caused by a manufaciter’s autopilot seems a bit egregious to me.

Pushmi-Pullyu
Guest
Pushmi-Pullyu

“Are you really trying to compare general accidents to a vehicle that can actively steer its passengers into a median?”

Wow, that’s one of the best examples of a complex question (commonly known as a “Did you stop beating your wife?” question) that I’ve ever seen!

I’m really and truly comparing accident statistics between a car from an auto maker with such an extremely low fatal accident rate that every such accident qualifies as news, to an auto maker for which fatal accidents are such a common everyday occurrence — hundreds each and every day — that no news outlet reports it.

Yes, absolutely.

Now, it might be helpful to discuss the benefits of Tesla AutoSteer, which according to the NHTSA reduces the accident rate in Tesla cars by ~40%, but that would be just as off-topic for this discussion thread as your anti-Tesla FUD.

ClarksonCote
Guest
ClarksonCote

So if a company makes a gun that sometimes goes off by itself, that’s okay as long as it does that less than the number of human-caused gun accidents of other gun companies?

You just might be insane.

James
Guest
James

Look, to GM apologists, I own a Volt and admire the Bolt even though I abhor the games GM plays with, around and about electrification – including the jabs,insults and all out lies about Tesla and their robust funding and support of anti-Tesla legislation in many states.

So, this gun goes off and its assumed that it was not in any way operator error? Fanboism blinds even people who are supposed to be smart.

ClarksonCote
Guest
ClarksonCote

James, if you read my comment above, I said that generalizing to blame it on Tesla without facts is something I disagree with.

But it’s also completely crazy to shrug off a potential problem as operator error without thorough analysis.

And then all Pushi does is respond claiming all the posts are anti-Tesla FUD. I guess my post above saying, “I’m not claiming that Tesla is some dangerous machine here. Truthfully I disagree with both generalizations” is anti-Tesla FUD then, LOL. Unreal.

The biases in these posts are much more slanted in favor of Tesla than GM. Yup, there’s certainly GM fanboys too, but they look a lot more “normal” than the people who keep acting like Tesla can do no wrong. And I’m pro-Tesla way back to Martin Eberhard, so me thinking calling out people for asinine comparisons is not “anti-Tesla FUD” or “GM Fanboyism” – it’s calling it like I see it, and my opinion need not be relegated to having some bias just because I disagree with someone as serially pro-Tesla and anti-anything-critical-of-Tesla like Pushi

earl colby pottinger
Guest
earl colby pottinger

It is not so much GM as those stupid PR people who always think they can fool people with a few pleasant words.

Larry S
Guest
Larry S

As a bolt owner would you see this as effecting range (the update)? If so I’m sure it’s not a large difference, probably less than 10% maybe even under 5%

Bob A
Guest

I have a 2017 Bolt built in AUG 2017 What do you use to read you battery condition I would love to do that also. Please let us know how to do that. Thank you!

Mark.ca
Guest
Mark.ca

I got a flashback to the eGolf early issues when very few cars got their power cut of leaving drivers in the middle of roads or even worse in the middle of freeways. Of course it took them some time to recall it as i see GM sat on it a few months too. Scary indeed. They need to address this fast and quietly.

Aaron
Guest
Aaron

That was the Ford Focus EV. Search for “stop safely now”.

Bryant
Guest
Bryant

The early E-Golfs did have a similar problem, and a recall was issued for updated BMS software. Ironically, GM isn’t calling this one a recall.

https://electrek.co/2016/03/29/vw-recall-e-golfs-battery-software/

pjwood1
Guest
pjwood1

My TDI had the flashing ‘PRNDS’ message, in the dash, followed by powerlessly pulling over.

NHTSA reporting helped lead to that VW recall.

Vexar
Guest
Vexar

As opposed to the one involving pollution. I owned a VW once. So glad I could sell that problem child to someone else on a trade-in.

Knut Erik Ballestad
Guest
Knut Erik Ballestad

I’ve also experienced something close to this on cold days (colder than -10 Celcius) in my Leaf
– The battery meter goes from 17% to empty in about the same time it usually goes from 17% to 15% in warmer weather

Sean
Guest
Sean

No active thermal management in the leaf is a critical shortfall. Even the 2018 model didn’t add it, shockingly.

Henry Rose
Guest
Henry Rose

Hmmm. Last year, GM said this problem could only affect “v.1” of the battery. You can determine which battery you have by checking bar codes, manuf. date, etc. Now, it seems all 2017 Bolts could be affected.

I also recall that the power loss could only occur if your battery was in a relatively low state of charge – like 30% or lower. I wonder if that still applies.

Nice that we’ll get some warning if we have to pull off the highway, but then what? Wait to be towed to a GM dealership near you? And then wait for a battery replacement? I’ve had a great Bolt ownership experience thus far but I’m more than curious to see how this unfolds.

ffbj
Guest
ffbj

Bottom line is: Don’t Trust GM.

morrisg
Guest
morrisg

Remember: LG Chem built the cells, battery and drive electronics under contract to GM.

bro1999
Guest

When the Bolt gets good press, it is the “LG Bolt”. When it gets bad press, it is the “GM Bolt”. Lol

ffbj
Guest
ffbj

Yes, and as you continually point out, GM designed the power train and battery, even though they did not build it.
I don’t blame LG for it, The Bolt, looking the way it does, nor the poor seats, in fact LG components are what give the car a good reason to buy it. I don’t think of it as a show stopper, maybe a car stopper, but I don’t believe GM either, in that it’s so rare as to be merely a statistical anomaly.

Sean
Guest
Sean

You better not trust ANY carmaker then, as every single car ever produced has had problems.

ffbj
Guest
ffbj

I would run over to GM express my concerns and ask to get it in writing that they checked the car out and it’s fine.
Get as much documentation before something happens that you, as the owner, took care of the vehicle.
GM will try to blame your poor, lazy, inexperienced, inattentive, driving habits, relative to evs, for problems
that develop with the car.
GM is famous for fighting these sorts of problems, tooth & nail. Just as any car company, they have teams of lawyers, if something goes wrong they will try to wriggle out of it. Except with them it’s more like a calling. They didn’t forget how to obfuscate, lay blame, pass the buck, etc.. Just because they went bankrupt.
I would only buy the Bolt from GM, to spite them, since they lose money on it, Though it’s still a decent car.
Make copies of everything related to the vehicle.
What’s good for GM is good for the U.S.A
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kj65AcbekIE

Then, don’t sweat it, because you’ll probably continue to enjoy a fine vehicle that fulfills its mission.

Sean
Guest
Sean

GM clarified that there has been no change to the battery, there’s no V1 and V2. Only changed the coolant hose outlet to make repairs less error prone.

Franko M
Guest
Franko M

“.. asking 2017 Bolt EV customers to contact their dealer to schedule service for a software update.”
So old school, the need to schedule a service at a dealer for software upgrade.

Bunny
Guest
Bunny

At least GM has service in all fifty states.
Didn’t Tesla just recall over 1/2 of everything they has ever built for bad fasteners on the steering?
Tesla have service in state all 50 states ?
Waiting for Tesla service van show up is like waiting for the cable guy…… doesn’t get more old school than that! LOL

Give both companies trying to do their
customers right credit for trying.

Mark.ca
Guest
Mark.ca

So you like going to the dealer for service…i guess it’s the coffee they serve, no?

ffbj
Guest
ffbj

Only around 1/3 of dealerships service it, and then, who knows, do they really know their stuff.
Most of them won’t be able to do much for you if it’s a major problem related to the battery except diagnose the problem or just wait for a failure.
They won’t be able to fix it.
Anecdotal evidence, to the contrary, has shown Tesla to be very responsive to problems.
Highest satisfaction rate according to CR.
I don’t think all the complaints are just people whining either. Tesla is not perfect, just much better than all the other car companies in this regard.

Vexar
Guest
Vexar

Uh… it is some external part in the linkages that corrodes a bit too much in climates where road salt involves magnesium salts. I’m on the recall list for that and the Takata air bag thing.
Tesla suffers at the hands of their suppliers far too often.

Taylor S. Marks
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Taylor S. Marks

You have to take your car to a dealer for a software update.

That’s an exact reason I’ll never buy a car from a dealer again.

fotomoto
Guest
fotomoto

Because your car will never need service again either?

Anon
Guest
Anon

Stealer’s service for profit…

fotomoto
Guest
fotomoto

What car maker’s service center doesn’t need to operate on profit?

ffbj
Guest
ffbj

It’s true that are designed to make profit, but if the car is under warranty they have to fix what’s wrong and don’t make money on that.
You have to consider then that if they actually are making a profit then they are ripping off other customers to make up the difference.

Is that clear? So they cheat you on regular service, diagnostics, parts, and anything out of warranty,
it’s murder.
I have not gone to service center run by a carmaker except to get a replacement key. $6 bucks, in 40 years.

fotomoto
Guest
fotomoto

Agreed it’s buyer beware just like any other transaction.

Manufacturers pay a set flat rate to dealers for warranty work so, no, a dealer doesn’t “need” to make up for lost revenue. They simply want to generate income on anyone who comes in for service; it’s called up-selling.

Why would Tesla (or any other maker) provide free labor and parts after the warranty expires? Currently consumers have the choice to go to a dealer or numerous independent third parties for service after the sale or warranty expires.

Years from now what options will the second or third owner of a Model X have for falcon-wing door repair?

Loboc
Guest
Loboc

“if the car is under warranty they have to fix what’s wrong and don’t make money on that.”

This is incorrect. GM reimburses their dealers for warranty repairs. Heck, I’ve seen them reimburse third-party repair shops as well.

Pushmi-Pullyu
Guest
Pushmi-Pullyu

“It’s true that are designed to make profit, but if the car is under warranty they have to fix what’s wrong and don’t make money on that.”

Reality check: Auto dealers make most of their profits by servicing cars, not selling them. The only question is whether the dealer is gonna charge the auto maker or the customer.

Or maybe, if it’s a dishonest dealer, he will double bill, charging both:

An automotive OEM observed that several automotive dealers were charging both the customer and the manufacturer for the same repair. This happened when mileage had reached the limit after which warranty expires. These dealers rightly charged the customer, but also sent a warranty service claim to the manufacturer with a somewhat lower mileage, making the repair look like a warranty repair.

http://www.warrantyweek.com/archive/ww20160908.html

fotomoto
Guest
fotomoto

“Reality check: Auto dealers make most of their profits by servicing cars, not selling them.”

How will Tesla be different?

Pushmi-Pullyu
Guest
Pushmi-Pullyu

Tesla is running its service shops with the intent of being revenue-neutral. Last report I saw, they were making about a 1-2% profit.

Tesla isn’t just “planning to” do things differently, they already are!

Go Tesla!

Vexar
Guest
Vexar

Just Tesla. Elon has said that repeatedly. Are they cheaper for the same service elsewhere? Hard to say.

theflew
Guest
theflew

You’re making a mountain out of a mole hill. I took my Bolt in for it’s free tire rotation and they told me about the recall and software update. There was no dealer drama.

Anon
Guest
Anon

That’s how you sweep dangerous defects under the proverbial rug. GM has certainly had a lot of experience covering up defects in it’s history.

Pushmi-Pullyu
Guest
Pushmi-Pullyu

@theflew:

Thank you for that reality check!

It’s too bad that the Usual Suspects here are trying to make this yet another zero-sum-game “Tesla vs. GM” fight. Can’t we all remember we are EV advocates, and thus really on the same side? (Well, most of us anyway… trolls and Useful Idiots for Russian troll farms excluded.)

But if we have to look at it in those terms, let us Tesla fans not forget that Tesla cars have occasionally had battery pack failures. Edmunds.com’s long-term test drive Tesla Model S died on the road, had to be towed, and had to have the battery pack replaced. That problem had a low occurrence rate, but it did happen.

Those who live in glass houses shouldn’t throw stones. Neither GM fans nor Tesla fans are in a position to throw stones on this issue. (But we can all throw stones at Nissan! 😉 )

TwoVolts
Guest
TwoVolts

“Can’t we all remember we are EV advocates”
AMEN! Good advice!

Knut Erik Ballestad
Guest
Knut Erik Ballestad

– Hey! –

I love my Nissan Leaf, even though it occacionally behaves something like this Bolt.

If less than -10C outside and starting with a cold battery, the battery drops from 17% to empty in about the same time as it usually uses to drop 2%.

Seems like the BMS doesn’t realise that a substantial amount of power is lost in really cold weather – like Tesla for example shows graphically under similar circumstances.

earl colby pottinger
Guest
earl colby pottinger

I really think these people who seem to want to start a fight may be shorters of the stocks.

Their goal is not to promote any EVs, their goal is to try and drive down the price of a stock to make money. That is their motive MONEY not a better future for all – selfish gits.

Jeff S
Guest
Jeff S

This is incorrect. GM is already scheduling OTA updates to Bolt owners. The full email is posted elsewhere in this comment thread.

G2
Guest
G2

This is not good news for anyone in the EV world. Hope it gets sorted out quickly.

pjwood1
Guest
pjwood1

Fighting having a low-opinion of the world. This sounds like inadequate battery management system (BMS), keeping the pack balanced, and/or uploading to OnStar. GM could just as well be treating a communication issue, from most/all Bolts, rather than a defect from an extreme few?

Bill Howland
Guest
Bill Howland

Thanks GM for the ‘Heads UP’ on my 2017 BOLT ev. Its due for its free tire rotate from the dealer so this is a great time for them to install the diagnostic software.

Bill Howland
Guest
Bill Howland

Not true James – you can’t make an accurate ‘blanket’ statement.

The GEN 1 VOLT takes several days to catch fire – and then only if MANDATORY discharge procedures are willfully ignored. And they don’t catch fire in collisions.

mxs
Guest
mxs

Yep, stay away kids … hilarious.

Aaron
Guest
Aaron

James, go back to hosting Fox News. They appreciate your views there.

All-Purpose Guru
Guest
All-Purpose Guru

Don’t feed the trolls, folks.

abc123
Guest
abc123

No, the misinformation that he’s posted has to be corrected because the uninformed readers will just take his misinformation as fact.

So, if nobody corrected him, people will think that EV’s will explode like the Samsung battery fiasco. When in fact, the battery chemistry between the two are different, the charging methods are different, the battery management systems are different.

morrisg
Guest
morrisg

Well, I’m sorry to hear this. I know of several Bolt owners that have been very happy with their cars. But this software update is just to detect a condition of a bad cell in cars that are less than two years old. My real concern is what is happening to the LG Chem cells? Why are some going bad so soon in their lifetime??? Since LG Chem is supplying cells to GM, Hyundai, Kia and Nissan’s upcoming 60kw-hr Leaf, I would hope they have some answers soon.

Eric Crowder
Guest
Eric Crowder

Some LG cells are going bad because of a manufacturing defect. it’s not a design problem. The number of LG cells that had the manufacturing defect is a very small percentage. Unfortunately it takes one cell out of 200 something in the battery to cause the problem.

The cells in my 2011 Volt are also made by LG, of course a different chemistry and design. But my Volt’s battery is working perfectly after 120,000 miles so I have confidence in LG’s ability to design and manufacture a reliable product.

Prince_Ali
Guest

Sounds like just a software issue. Not a real problem.

Tech01x
Guest
Tech01x

Of course it is a real problem. They are updating the software in all ’17 Bolts to better figure out which ones have the very real problem. If it wasn’t a real problem, they wouldn’t be taking this step.

Nix
Guest
Nix

Yes, it is real, and it is a problem, and they are fixing it. Absolutely correct.

But there are “real problems”, and then there are “REAL problems”, and then there are “REAL PROBLEMS!!!”, if you get my drift.

Pushmi-Pullyu
Guest
Pushmi-Pullyu

“Sounds like just a software issue. Not a real problem.”

You’d best read the article again, more carefully this time. It’s a real hardware problem. The only real question is just how frequent the failure is.

Sean
Guest
Sean

It’s a proactive measure to catch the real problem sooner. That’s why it’s not a safety recall.

ffbj
Guest
ffbj

Yes, it’s an ex post facto proactive measure. Brilliant!

Logan
Guest
Logan

https://www.consumerreports.org/2017-chevrolet-bolt/chevrolet-bolt-battery-might-run-out-suddenly-automaker-warns-some-owners/

What happens is the car mis-reports the remaining range and the battery cut’s out on you unexpectedly. It only happens when the vehicle is at a low state of charge. So you may think you have 20 miles remaining when one of the cells is actually very low and the car shuts down.

My wife drives our early build January 2017 Bolt and I think the lowest we’ve ever ran it down over the last 22,000 miles was to 40 miles of predicted range. It definitely doesn’t make me feel good to know that it could be a ticking time bomb so I’ll be getting it into the dealer right away.

Pushmi-Pullyu
Guest
Pushmi-Pullyu

That seems more than a bit over-the-top. A “ticking time bomb”? Any car may have a mechanical or electrical failure, and wind up “dead” on the side of the road. That happens to gasmobiles and EVs alike, occasionally. I don’t know anyone who thinks his car is a “time bomb” because it might die on the road.

If you really see it that way, then best stay indoors and never venture out! 😉

Sean
Guest
Sean

The car doesn’t typically shut down immediately. The warning typically occurs higher, and you get a minute or two before complete shutdown, enough to at least get your car to the side of the road.

Eric Ryder
Guest
Eric Ryder

So much for Over The Air software updates…

Warren
Guest
Warren

OTA updates means OTA hacks too. i’d rather go to the dealer.

Bunny
Guest
Bunny

+1

Anon
Guest
Anon

Because GM does not hire White Hats to test their software for such things, nor take proactive measures to engineer software with a high degree of inherent security?

Pushmi-Pullyu
Guest
Pushmi-Pullyu

Yup, Tesla is very pro-active about defending against hacking. Has there ever been a case of a “black hat” hacker getting access to a Tesla car? I don’t know of one.

Of course, no matter how good the defense is, it can’t be made 100% immune to any possible hacking. But certainly Tesla is far better about establishing and maintaining computer security than other auto makers!

If you’re worried about the computer security on a Tesla car, then you’re definitely wasting time worrying about the wrong thing!

wavelet
Guest
wavelet

These were white hats, but black hats could have done it too:
https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2016/sep/20/tesla-model-s-chinese-hack-remote-control-brakes

https://www.wired.com/2015/07/hackers-remotely-kill-jeep-highway/

The risk isn’t limited to Tesla — most modern cars are internet-connected — but it’s certainly greater for cars which do have regular OTA updates. In fact, GM and other carmakers have had the ability to do OTA or brick their cars remotely (if the owner reports it stolen), but they don’t use it yet because they’re worried about the risks.

Pushmi-Pullyu
Guest
Pushmi-Pullyu

Yes, Tesla has openly and repeatedly asked “white hat” hackers to see if they can hack into a Tesla car. That’s part of how Tesla is being proactive on that issue.

Seems very strange to me that you’d characterize that in a negative way, when it’s a very positive thing for Tesla’s security!

And no, “black hat” hackers can’t hack into a Tesla car the same way, because Tesla updated their software to plug the “holes” the white hat hackers found.

ffbj
Guest
ffbj

Musk’s paranoia about rogue AI is reflected in the breath, depth, and scope, of their hacking prevention program.
As you suggest it’s a major strength to argue otherwise is incorrect.

MarkT
Guest
MarkT

In that case kill your internet connection.

The Bolt supports OTA hardware, yet GM won’t enable it. This would be a great example for pushing out this update overnight, while you’re asleep before you hit the road the next day and potentially lose power while driving. It’s No different than a PC update and reboot. With the proper security this is the best option.

EVShopper
Guest
EVShopper

I have had too many software updates corrupt or break my computers or mobile devices. Would hate to wake up to a dead car that needs a complete system restart and reload. Rather take it to a professional that is trained and paid to load the software and has the diagnostic tools to make sure it is working properly.

I would want there to be a way to opt out of Tesla OTA, and be able to take it in to a service center.

Sean
Guest
Sean

Why does this mean not having?

OTA is polled, encrypted and verified by the car. There’s no reason that this should increase hackability.

Tony Marco
Guest
Tony Marco

Black mark on the Chevy Bolt battery progress, especially after years of R&D on LG Chem batteries!

Hopefully none of these affected cars will suddenly stop on ANY high speed roadways !!! The results could be …..

Another reason why I like my BMW i3 Rex – BACKUP!

David Gould
Guest
David Gould

>Hopefully none of these affected cars will suddenly stop on ANY high speed roadways !!! The results could be …..
>Another reason why I like my BMW i3 Rex – BACKUP!

The i3 Rex is a serial hybrid. That is, the gas engine does not drive the wheels, it only charges the battery. So a battery fault condition will stop the car, the same as the Bolt.

Jason
Guest
Jason

Ha, ha, don’t be smug! Does the i3 have a computer? Does the computer decide when to change over to REX? Do computers get glitches? Every single modern vehicle has a computer, so at some point something can go wrong, even if nothing had ever gone wrong in the past.
The main thing is how critical is it and how responsive was your manufacturer to fix it? Oh, and how serious did you rate it and how quickly did you go to get it fixed?

Rich
Guest
Rich

Sorry to hear about this issue. The last thing we need is more shade thrown at electric vehicles. Hopefully, GM can address the problem quickly, not only in a patch for existing, but in production moving forward.

DonC
Guest

I put this in the same category as Tesla’s drawing down the battery significantly when parked or being able to brick a Tesla battery too easily. Annoying but not in the same category of having a battery (looking at you Nissan) which significantly degrades in a relatively short period.

We’ll see issues with the power electronics. This isn’t the first and won’t be the last.

Pushmi-Pullyu
Guest
Pushmi-Pullyu

What is your motive for continuing to post 100% untrue Tesla bashing FUD, even in a discussion about a Bolt EV problem? Vladimir Putin thanks you for supporting his Russian troll farms.

I don’t think anyone has ever had a Tesla Model S or X “bricked”. So far as I know, it was a problem only with early Roadsters, and was fixed with a software update.

See: “Model S Battery almost impossible to ‘brick’ ”

https://teslamotorsclub.com/tmc/threads/model-s-battery-almost-impossible-to-brick.7660/

Mulon Esk
Guest
Mulon Esk

Just buy a Tesla!

EVlong Frankenmusk
Guest
EVlong Frankenmusk

Battery BAD,
FIRE GOOD!
GM Say, Must Crush all EVs!

Jeff Nisewanger
Guest
Jeff Nisewanger
A little further clarification on this issue. 1. Many of the cars with a bad battery cell are from early production. Production started in late October, 2016. There continue to be a few newer cars with cells that go bad. 2. GM says it has gotten a lot better about proactively noticing when an individual car’s battery has a cell that is in the process of going bad. They are using remote diagnostics using the OnStar computer that is built into every Bolt EV to actively monitor the batteries in all Bolt EVs. 3. GM says in the large majority of cases they now notify owners of individual Bolt EVs that have bad cells before the car shows outward signs of failure such as going into reduced propulsion power while driving. 4. The software update to the car is not related to detecting the bad cells but is instead a change which causes the car to alert the driver sooner and give them more time to continue driving before the car is forced to reduce and ultimately disable driving. To really get all of the details, please read the original article on the new software update (“GM issues software update… Read more »
Pushmi-Pullyu
Guest
Pushmi-Pullyu

The Bolt EV powertrain is, I think, the first major system mass produced by LG Electronics’ new automotive division. Frankly, if this is the worst problem we’re seeing from a recent startup, then they are doing better than I expected.

I think GM deserves some congratulation for their overall success in quality control in overseeing LG Electronics’ production of the Bolt EV’s powertrain. This one issue should not cause us to overlook the overall success.

Sean
Guest
Sean

Absolutely agreed!

Pushmi-Pullyu
Guest
Pushmi-Pullyu

Hmmm, well, this could be very bad if a significant percentage of Bolt EVs are affected.

Or, it could be nothing more than just another bit of fodder for EV bashers, if it’s less than 1%, as claimed by MadBro in the first post in this discussion. However, given his strong pro-Bolt EV bias, it seems best to treat that claim with some skepticism.

* * * * *

john1701a said:

“Hopefully there will be civil discourse on the matter.”

I hope so too! No reason (see what I did there?) to help out Putin and the Russian troll farms trying to create or inflame divisiveness, tribalism, and hatred on American social media. Everybody here is an EV supporter, right? Well, almost everyone, at least.

And, John1701a, I also hope you will extend the same courtesy in the future, when you comment on Tesla and its cars.

john1701a
Guest

I wonder what you think you read. I certainly haven’t been saying anything against Tesla. Perhaps you’ve mixed me up with someone else.

TwoVolts
Guest
TwoVolts

John1701a,
If you don’t want to be accused of working for Putin, just make sure you are civil when you comment on Tesla and its cars. Capiche?

john1701a
Guest

That’s not me. Apparently someone’s using my ID.

What post are you referring to?

TwoVolts
Guest
TwoVolts

Not referring to anything you have posted.
Was an attempt at humor that fell flat.

earl colby pottinger
Guest
earl colby pottinger

No, instead since the discussion is about FM Bolt there is not need to be talking about Tesla cars.

The discussion is has GM handled it right?

And I would say yes.

earl colby pottinger
Guest
earl colby pottinger

That was GM not FM.

Pushmi-Pullyu
Guest
Pushmi-Pullyu

“Perhaps you’ve mixed me up with someone else.”

That may be a “fair cop”. Perhaps indeed I mixed you up with someone else who posted some time back, using “1701” as part of his screen name.

If so, then I apologize.

EVShopper
Guest
EVShopper

They had this same problem on the Spark EV battery and similar recall. It was totally a non-issue to get it the software updated at the dealer.

(⌐■_■) Trollnonymous
Guest
(⌐■_■) Trollnonymous

In other words, GM learned nothing from that experience.

Bill Howland
Guest
Bill Howland

This issue is being made into a mountain when it is really just a molehill.
As I read it, apparently in less than 1% of BOLT ev’s out there, there is a marginal connection problem between some of the cells.

The novel software addition is merely to clearly advise to the driver that there is a reliability problem that needs to be rectified prior to any real damage or inconvenience being done.

What could be wrong with any of this? I consider GM is doing me a big favor here. I have not gotten this degree of consideration by other car companies, although individual employees have given me plenty of unexpected assistance (since I think they felt sorry for my predicament).

Therefore any criticism of GM here seems to me a case of sour grapes, or just plain mean-spiritedness.

TheWay
Guest
TheWay

I think the biggest issue are 2 things:
1) It isn’t OTA, they have OnStar, there is no excuse why it isn’t OTA.

2) They know the issue is there but their software can’t find out which batteries are effected until after symptoms begin to show?

3) If you are outside the 100k mile warranty and this issue happens, will they still take care of it?

Now I don’t think it’s an issue in the long term, especially if 2018+ models will be fine. But GM has a weird relationship with the EV community ever since the EV1 and how they treated the Volt. So people can’t help but be skeptical of them.

bro1999
Guest

You need to look up state laws and services by franchised dealerships WRT why OTA updates aren’t so easy to push out. It’s much more than just “GM doesn’t want to”, that’s for sure.

Sean
Guest
Sean

Can you provide any evidence to back that up? Is a common thing to say but we can’t find any actual evidence to back this up. Plus, GM is doing other updates OTA, as well as other manufacturers. The right to repair laws also state that anyone qualified can do a repair, and it’s hard to say that the car itself isn’t qualified.

I think it’s more likely that the OTA system isn’t tested and verified or perhaps even capable of handling any updates other than infotainment system updates. For security reasons there may be a firewall between the infotainment system and other car modules.

ffbj
Guest
ffbj

That coincides with my thought too. Perhaps for legal ramifications, considerations.
I don’t think it’s ready yet, whatever the reason(s).

ClarksonCote
Guest
ClarksonCote

This update will be OTA it sounds like, for the overall fleet anyway. A friend of mine has a Bolt, received the letter on this, and it specifically stated it would be pushed via an OTA update.

Bill Howland
Guest
Bill Howland

TheWay I’m not trying to make a Brief for GM, nor do I own any of their stock – but GM has done nothing to make people ‘skeptical’ of them safety wise.

The Bolt ev does not have over-the-air updates. Neither did my Tesla Roadster. I knew this fact prior to purchase of the cars so I could live with it. My Home doesn’t have exactly every last amenity in it either yet I purchased it too,

GM has always excelled in battery longevity and Safety of their EV’s especially the first generation VOLT – the safest car ever made.

Since you think GM is so horrible, please mention FIVE other car makers with a superior track record.

ffbj
Guest
ffbj

Like Al Capone saying: name 5 other gangsters that did not murder people in cold blood, and then try to cover it up or blame it on someone else. Your logic escapes me.
I rest my case, you Honor.

Bill Howland
Guest
Bill Howland

“Your Logic escapes me” – I’m glad.

Eric Crowder
Guest
Eric Crowder

Question, what do you mean by “how they treated the Volt?” I’m just curious as a 2011 Volt owner if my experience was different than most other people.

-Eric

Nix
Guest
Nix

Sounds like a relative non-issue that they are taking care of. *shrug*

Sean
Guest
Sean

Agreed. They are modifying the existing detection algorithm to give even more notice. It’s a good thing.

Massimo
Guest

I thought that the Bolt would be able to receive OTA updates? I haven’t heard anything about this since the very early days of Bolt. Pain in the ass if all this needs is an update to software but you have to go to the dreaded dealer just for that.

Sean
Guest
Sean

OTA updates may be limited to infotainment system only

Sean
Guest
Sean

“but we are asking all 2017 vehicles to participate in the program”

GM has a major problem then, as dealerships are clueless and telling some 2017 owners that the update doesn’t apply to them.

ekutter
Guest
ekutter

Our local dealer in Bend Oregon won’t carry or service the Bolt, so I’d have to take a 3 hour drive to get this update. How can you be a Chevy dealer when you aren’t required to support all Chevy vehicles? This definitely shows a lack of commitment to electric vehicles by GM.

Bill Howland
Guest
Bill Howland

ekutter if you are truly in so remote a location that it takes a 3 hour drive to get the car serviced – it will indeed impact your decision of whether you would like to purchase a BOLT ev… I had a similiar decision to make back in 2011 when I purchased a Tesla Roadster, and the nearest US service center was 350 miles away. Seeing as the ‘Ranger’ service for the Roadster at the time was decent, I decided to do it.

Sometimes OTHER GM dealers are qualified for service – for instance my neighbor 2 doors down had a snaky diagnostic problem with his Pontiac G6, and it was only the Local Cadillac Dealership (who locally prides itself on fixing anything), who actually fixed the car to his complete satisfaction.

Incidentally, although the nearest Cadillac dealership to me that will sell the CT6 PHEV is 380 miles away, my local dealership was willing to SELL a used CT6 PHEV to me, and said they were fully certified to SERVICE it, even though they are not selling Brand New Models.

MTN Ranger
Guest
MTN Ranger

Yes, that does sound odd. There are over 10 Chevy dealers in my metro area and all are Volt/Bolt certified.

Dave86
Guest
Dave86

You’re in Bend, Oregon? Can’t you go to a Chevy dealer in Salem? I thought Capitol Chevy in Salem sold Spark EVs a few years ago. Can’t they help you? Salem should be much less than 3 hours from Bend…

Portland is about 3 hours from Bend.

SansIce
Guest
SansIce

So Much for the “Tesla KIller”. I have never been a GM guy. I have only owned one – a 73 350 Chevy PU. Truth be told, I currently own a Focus Electric, a Model S 60D, and a Ford F250 PU.
Sorry but I always had to laugh when the endless articles came out how the Bolt was going to take down Tesla. Chevy products although seemingly improving with the Volt and Malibu and such, continue to have a cheap, unreliable feel. This is a visceral feeling that I have always had and continue to have. I have preferred Ford since I used to ride in my Dad’s 250 PU.- Yes I am unabashedly biased. That being said, with this battery problem, the cartoonish feel of the exterior and the cheap interior and inadequate seats, the thought that somehow the Chevy Bolt would some how take down Tesla or can any way be compared to the stylish, desirable, highly performing Model 3, is laughable.

bro1999
Guest

Despite all your bashing of the Bolt, it remains the only <$40k, 200+ mile BEV available for sale in every state.
GM is playing the long game with their EVs. By 2021, Tesla will have much more to worry about than the Bolt.

SansIce
Guest
SansIce

What is the “long game”? I don’t mean to bash – I am just calling it as I see it. I sat in the Bolt and I considered it thoughtfully. If I am purchasing a car based on price and availability -I feel a lot more quality in my Focus which only get 74 miles but feels and drives like a well handling car with a high quality interior. It was below or around 20K after the 7500 Fed credit. For my use I would prefer the newer version with the 125 mile range than the 238 mile Bolt.
It looks and feels like a more substantial car than the Bolt for a lot less money.

Nix
Guest
Nix

That’s funny, because you paid well over 40K for your Bolt, without even counting the shipping.

It is funny how you have to keep redefining “victory” down with more and more qualifiers every month so you can feel good paying roughly the same for your Bolt as buying a black TM3 with stock wheels and a long range battery with the not-yet-available standard interior. And yet you got 240 miles range instead of 300 miles range plus supercharging for your money.

Whatever makes you feel better. The Bolt is a good transitional car, but it will be funny to watch you continually qualify down with more and more qualifiers.

Narg
Guest
Narg

Nix, sounds funny that it’s you making excuses about the TM3.

Kdawg
Guest
Kdawg

” endless articles came out how the Bolt was going to take down Tesla”
————
I don’t recall this narrative?

SansIce
Guest
SansIce
Narg
Guest
Narg

Sounds like GM is on top of it. This is not the GM of the past, which they gained quite a negative view from. Good to see them change so positively.

Dartanian
Guest
Dartanian

Never mind the battery issues, if GM was on top of it the Bolt wouldn’t have those atrocious front seats. They are too narrow and I would never choose one until they fix such a glaring oversight on their part.

Bill Howland
Guest
Bill Howland

Again, the car is a Chevy, not a Cadillac. Its admittedly a cheap car looking odd to most Occidental eyes with its Oriental Styling.

Interior materials are cheap but serviceable, in the Chevy tradition.

Depends on what you want…… I bought the car for Reliability, Serviceability, efficiency, and the very best range available at the time at anything near the price.

If you saw my Green and Beige Roadster, you would say it is a beautiful car, even though it was not the most reliable, nor most efficient, and you had to be reasonably physically fit to get in and out of the car since you sat so low.

But, after tax credits, my Bolt Ev is less than 1/3 rd the cost of the Roadster. Its an incredible value – so it is somewhat disconcerting that people are so negative towards it.

Those same people would have hated the Roadster, unless blinded by the Tesla Logo on the car.