Chevrolet Bolt: 55 Pre-Production Cars Made And Exceeding 200 Mile Range Target

JUN 25 2015 BY JAY COLE 289

After recent shots of the Chevrolet Bolt testing in at GM’s Milford Proving Grounds, surfaced last week, the company has now decided to get ahead of the news and give an update on the program itself.

1 Of 55 Chevrolet Bolt Pre-Production Cars Out Testing

1 Of 55 Chevrolet Bolt Pre-Production Cars Out Testing

It turns out that there are 55 pre-production Bolts now in existence and being put through their paces.

These Bolts are being assembled by hand, both at GM’s Orion plant in Michigan, as well as in South Korea (where the Chevrolet Spark EV is currently being assembled).  Over 1,000 engineers have been tasked with speeding along the program.

“Effectively these are the bones of the car that’s going to be the production Chevy Bolt.” – Josh Tavel, the Chevrolet Bolt EV’s chief engineer

GM noted that the normal tests for quality were being applied to the miles – comfort, suspension etc., as well as for range verification and DC fast charging performance.

Pam Fletcher, executive chief engineer of EVs at Chevy, said (via slashgear), “They’re running fast, the fact that we can show you fifty-something cars running is busy.”

The Chevrolet Bolt EV’s chief engineer also added that these early test cars are already exceeding 200 miles of range.

The final production version of the car will be revealed next year, and is expected to begin production in October of 2016 and arrive in 2017 (as a 2018 model) according to sources familiar with the roll-out plans.  GM also stressed that the Bolt EV will be a national offering in the US, meaning all 50 states – as well as select markets internationally.

GM’s CEO says that the target price for Chevys 200+ mile compact EV is around $30,000 after incentives.  Ms. Fletcher declined to offer further specifics on the Bolt’s ability or the (kW) size of its lithium battery pack.

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289 Comments on "Chevrolet Bolt: 55 Pre-Production Cars Made And Exceeding 200 Mile Range Target"

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Sounds to me like they are going to beat Tesla to the market. That was probably the goal all along.

It’s safe to say you could comfortably finish a two year Bolt lease by the time the Model III comes out.

No kidding. GM is testing 55 pre-production mules (that are near production design), and Tesla has not even designed a concept.

I don’t have a lot of faith in Tesla hitting their price either. Hopefully GM can after they learned their lesson on the Gen1 Volt. I can’t see them doing that again.

+1 on that (Tesla falling behind schedules and above price target, what else is new).

But as usual everyone forgets the 800-pound gorilla. The real question is whether Nissan beats them both to market with a >150-mile, 5-seat Gen 2 Leaf. Or rather, by how much time it beats them.

I’m not sure what to make of the continued official silence (leaks excluded) regarding the 2016 Leaf.

Anyway, that’s great news from GM. The mainstream-mainstream-EV future is practically around the corner.

They said the 2016 leaf would have a 25% improved range versus the 2015 for the SV and SL models. The S stays the same I guess.

That was a dealer leak published here (and elsewhere). No official word yet.

At this time last year they were already selling 2015’s for delivery in early July.

I bought my 2013 Volt for $22,900 after incentives…. unlike the Japanese who put a $40,000 non tariff on the Volt making the Volt cost $80,000 in Japan … How many Leafs would sell here for $80,000?

We really let these foreign countries get away with unfair practices, while we let our market be wide open. What really burns me is we got people who call themselves American trashing the Volt because it is electric and because the president sat in one. Yet no put downs for the foreign EV’s.

You habe Hügel import taxes in trucks not build in america. This prevented European carmaker (mercedes i know for sure) from selling. You are not wide open.

damn autocorrect, should read:

you have huge import….

Now there’s a joke .. Try to buy a Chevy Volt in Germany.. or even a Chevy Malibu… you will pay double at least! How many Mercedes would sell in the US if we did the same as Germany and made the price double?

Yes, agree with you 100%! Dumb Conservatives that worship their god Exxon/Mobil and OPEC go nuts over an American federal rebate for EVs, while FOREIGN companies get HUGE support from their gov’t w/tax breaks and massive subsidies. Foreign auto companies get MUCH,MUCH more than support than any American company gets from our government. Goodness, talk about Americans not supporting America, but supporting their foreign OVERLORDS OPEC!

It is not because Tesla is late on the X that they are not on schedule for the 3. They say presentation in 2016 and production starting in 2017, there is no reason they would not do exactly for that car. So that’s OK.
They will put a revolutionary car on the market seating 5 and able to compare to a 3 series BMW.
That will be the fourth global market ev for Tesla.
GM will actually put his very first US wide only ev car on the market. The ev1 was limited to just a few states not nation wide even less world wide like the Model S. So GM kind of lack ev experience on a worldwide scale. In more the Bolt is only a small four seater and for what concern it’s ability to compare to a 3 series BMW, well that is close to hopeless. At best it can compete with the i3.
Finally the Model 3 will have the full supercharger infrastructure already in place, perhaps even improved to even faster charging, so that is a very big advantage and of course a very big lack for the Bolt.

I seriously doubt Tesla’s price will be comparable to the Bolt, once typically equipped. In that sense, you will be able to compare it to a BMW 3 series — but in a way that sucks — once you have the features you want it will be 50k.

Supercharger access cost extra for the 60k, I doudbt it will be for free with the Model III. Looking at Tesla’s map, Supercharger access isn’t something I’d necessarily think I’d want to pay extra for. If the Model III was closer to the size of my minivan, had as much cruising range as it did, and even if there were a lot more superchargers, then I could see the value of prepaying for supercharger access. For really long trips with the whole family I’m not sure it would fit the bill. Even if the Model X was in my budget I’m not sure it would either.

Let’s hope there is a stripped down version of the Model 3 so that more people can afford one. The essential being range all the rest can be optional but it is important to allow access to the many since this time it will be the other way around, people will likely flock to the base model they just can afford, exactly the opposite of the Model S buyers where money is obviously less important and that rather bought the top line models.

“Tesla has not designed a concept”

You have no way of knowing that. The most you can say is that they have not (yet) REVEALED a concept – of a car they’ve been planning for 10 years(??)

Why do you keep assuming that the Tesla equivalent will be better.. Don’t drink the Tesla kool-aid.. It makes you seem sad

Please drive a Volt and a Model S before you complain about Tesla. The Bolt will be another piece-of-junk that the big car companies will upsell to the uneducated consumer. What about the battery/drive-train warranty, crash-worthiness, number of passengers and cargo space, software upgradability, autonomous capabilities, performance, price once government incentives runs out, customer support? Tesla dominates in these categories and many others. Bolt in competing against the upgraded-range Nissan Leaf coming, not the Tesla Model 3.

So you’re saying we should compare a $40,000 car to a $100,000 car before we cast judgment?

Both the Volt and the Model S have set records for the number of awards they have received, as well as the satisfaction of their buyers; they are both great cars. If the Bolt is as good at release as the Volt was, that is a categorical win for GM.

Yes, I am saying that for a better understanding of the Tesla Model 3, you need to drive a Model S and for a better understanding of the Bolt drive the Volt/Spark. The Tesla Model 3 will be even more advanced then the current Model S. Tesla is advancing and implementing their technology in their cars so fast that no other automaker can keep pace. Additionally Tesla Model 3 will be priced lower than the Bolt and have all-wheel drive

Additionally, maybe you do not know that you can get a Model S from Tesla starting at $55,000, with 4yr/50k bumper-to-bumper warranty and still the remainder of the 8yr unlimited mile warranty. That is a far better deal than buying a Volt or a Bolt.

Um, there is no $55,000 new Tesla Model S on their site. That number is after rebate and gas savings, so it is fake to help show “value”. It is a $75,000 – $7,500 rebate car minimum. You can’t compare a Tesla Model S to a Model 3. They are two very different price targets. It is like comparing a Mercedes S class to a C class. Yes they share similarities in familial look and some materials but the drive train, luxury and driving experience are very different. However you can compare a Volt to Bolt as they are similar price points. Volt is solidly built, up to date tech in Gen II. It will be cheaper in the short term because there will be $7,500 rebates left for GM but none likely for Tesla by the time the Model 3 actually delivers to the public.

I think he is talking about a used Model S.

Yes, I am talking about the pre-owned versions of the Tesla Model S for the $55,000 price point. And yes, the Model 3 will be very similar to the Model S in driving feel and features, just 20% smaller. Tesla will not make a cheap car they will make a less-expensive car with the Model 3 since it will be smaller, lighter, and at a significantly lower cost for the battery. The technology will even be better than the current Model S is today and way ahead of what the Volt/Bolt/Spark EV is; autonomous driving capability, supercharging, all-wheel drive, streamed media, over-the-air updates, hill-hold, and many other features not even know yet. What incredible features will be Bolt have besides driving 200 miles on a charge. It will basically be a $40,000 Chevy Spark EV, which has barely sold 2,000 units in two years. Good luck if you buy one, else wait a little and buy a Model 3 and thank me later.

Austin says:
“Additionally Tesla Model 3 will be priced lower than the Bolt and have all-wheel drive”

Now you’re just making things up or confusing what you want to see happen with the proven facts. It is not yet known what the price of either car is, and it is not known if awd is standard or not. You’re just making up what you want to see happen. It is quite entertaining.

Then you randomly start talking about the used price on a model S. $55,000 used is higher than the average price someone pays in the U.S. for a new car.

That’s almost all conjecture, and automatically assuming that people in general consider the Tesla S to be a superior value to the Volt. As a former Tesla owner, I consider the VOlt a much better value.

As far as dissing the VOlt’s safety, it is one of the safest cars on the road today, as evidenced by the crashes that people have walked away from with minor scrapes and NO FIRES.

It looks like GM is merely progressing on their plan to come out with a practical totally battery-electric-vehicle, and whether Tesla does or does not make a timely release of a lower cost vehicle is not a prime concern to GM. Its called ‘sticking to your knitting’, and just making minor improvements to technology and value as time goes on.

I can remember all the comments from all the BIG EXPERTS saying a 200 mile range BOLT is impossible. Except where does that leave them now that 55 examples are all 200 plus miles range, over a year before its initial introduction?

Yes, there ARE used 55,000 Model S’ on their CPO site. That goes to show you are speaking on something that you have NO idea about. Please go LEARN about Tesla before you speak about it.

Used .. more range anxiety.
No range anxiety in the Volt… even used.

And in the winter even more range anxiety for the Tesla… the range is greatly reduced… not in the Volt.

I don’t like the idea of having a flat bed have to come to get my Tesla any time it needs maintenance.

If we’re going to talk about used cars, you can get a Volt for around $15,000. I don’t think that is really a comparison you want to make.

Funny how people compare Volt to Tesla simply because of shared common EV feature.

Do we compare Nissan Altima to the Mercedes C-Class?

Different products and price points. Bolt maybe a little closer to Tesla market, but after incentives still – Tesla will be nearly x2 monthly costs

I am quite comfortable in saying the prognostication that the Bolt will beat Model 3 to market by 24 months is complete Bovine Feces.

Yes,it will beat it to market. 12 months tops.

No, TM will be late agin. They have the worst delivery records for their vehicles, and the Model 3 will be just as delayed. The Bolt EV woll sell by the thousands two years before the Model 3.

Oh, the Bolt will probably beat the Model 3 to market. But not by two years.

GM is going to be late too. 😛

Because GM’s assuming low demand (planning for 30K cars per year), they’re going to discover that they have a supply chain bottleneck they can’t break and will find themselves production constrained. Probably right around the same time as Tesla manages to break out of production constraints.

I wish them the best of luck, I’m just skeptical that they’re going to be able to deliver.

Experienced OEMs like GM don’t make simple mistakes like underestimating the volume of batteries that LG can supply. These issues are usually worked out months to years in advance of vehicle launch.

I have no doubt that the Bolt will beat the Tesla Model ≡ to market. I’ve thought that quite likely for some time, given Tesla’s ongoing problems getting a model into production.

But I’m not persuaded that the Bolt will achieve 200+ miles of EPA rated range, despite all the claims from GM. The quote given in the article above, ““Effectively these are the bones of the car…”, makes it perfectly clear they haven’t yet developed the production version of this car yet, so the preliminary performance and range tests of mules or pre-production prototypes are just that: preliminary, not final.

LG Chem will be supplying higher density batteries in 2016/17 and GM will be making a flat battery pack to fit in the floor. The cooling and heating will take most of the design work on this project. The electric drivetrain can be just a beefed up version of the Spark EV.

I don’t know why you think GM is lying with the 200 mile range, the Spark EV and Volt regularly beat EPA numbers.

Even if the Bolt was to only achieve 199 miles or range, that’s still 199 miles more than the still vaporware Model 3.

Well said!!

How can the Model 3 be vaporware, the Gigafactory isn’t even done. Tesla proved they can produce a great EV, I own a P85. Great American companies, GM and Tesla can produce multiple great EVs. Why pit them both against each other? Tesla is a small company, you can’t just demand production of 100,000 EV ASAP. Frankly your’re just an idiot.

Who does this sound like?
Vaporware is software or hardware that is announced publicly and actively promoted by a vendor even though it does not yet exist. To vaporize as a verb means to speak boastfully or be “full of hot air.”

A vaporware announcement may simply be a marketing strategy to gauge customer interest in a particular product — or the product may take so long to develop that it becomes more cost-effective to drop it quietly before completion.

I’m not against Tesla, but I get tired or reading comments like yours from their smug supporters that know very little about EVs, GM, or the automotive industry.

I hope they both make great EV’s. Let route for America and American jobs and ingenuity! My European friends always wonder, “Why do Americans always criticize their own companies?” If a European country had a Model S and the Volt, Europeans, no matter what country, would support BOTH companies. Americans can learn from this.

My only hope is they do not use the Spark chassis except for mule testing. Issue with Spark is so much road noise you cannot use any radio etc without having to crank up to unsafe levels. EV’s generally have a more demanding clientelle and if they think for 38 k they can sell a 200 mile Spark EV with its current comfort level and road noise they will fail miserably. I own both a Leaf and a Spark. I would not buy a Bolt for 38K if it had a 300 mile range if the comfort level was anything like the Spark. Take note GM!

We have two Thinks and a Volt. The Volt is much much quieter but we never drive it unless we have to. The Think is rougher ride too, but it is so fun and such great visibility and maneuverability, that we only take the Volt when we need seating for more than two or range for more than 90 miles. Go figure, customers are weird. There is room for every EV out there

What are you talking about? Spark? The Bolt IS NOT built on the Spark platform. Where are you getting this crap from? Watch the video FFS.-WOT

I have regrettably called this vaporware for some time now, I am so happy that I am wrong. If this car is built as well as the Volt, customer satisfaction will again be the highest of any GM car. This is a groundbreaking achievement for America and GM. Please don’t pit GM vs Tesla, they are both on the forefront of EV transport and abolishing America’s dependency on oil and our reliance on the despicable entity called OPEC.

This will help push things along nicely with other makers, and the race will on for even higher ranges, like 300 (and more) and up in the very near future. Good to see GM making amends for all those crushed EV1’s.

Battery tech is moving forward as we speak. Batteries will be cheaper, lighter, stronger, and safer. LG chem and A123 systems are coming out with solid state batteries- just getting started. What’s next?

I hope they can continue making these in Michigan, and not Korea. It matters less to me who does this, but moreover that it is actually happening, and more and more EV’s will come to the roads, and help save one of the biggest environmental issues of the planet.

Some say jobs will be lost, but so many more will be created to fill the new needs, and shift focus to benefit the planet.

Nice work GM. Next challenge, EV pick-up trucks. There are already buses and utility trucks as EV’s, but I haven’t seen a production pickup since the EV Ranger.

I will get one just for the heck of it, this is history.

Absolutely…someone has finally understood what the marketplace is asking for…

Cool. Where can I buy a CCS to CHADEMO adapter?


You just hit on the biggest problem with this car, while Tesla has a network of Superchargers and the Asian cars have Chademo, there are few CCS chargers out there. To make this a success GM will have to fix that, perhaps with BMW’s help.

I used to think that Tesla’s supercharger network was an insurmountable advantage. It really isn’t. The electric grid runs down every major road in the US. GM could manufacture DC fast chargers with the parts used in the Bolt. A combination of parallel chargers and batteries, could create a charger that can be shipped to say McDonalds around the US and connected to 240V circuits.
GM gets their network, McD (or whoever) gets a captive potential consumer for 20-30 minutes during the recharge.

Ugh! Why not Sonic or Dairy Queen? They have better desserts… And tater tots!

Because GM doesn’t want to associate the Bolt with the Sonic name 😉

If you read this GM, I’d like to put my vote in for Dunkin Donuts.

Until the real world range of BEV’s gets up there to 400+, I’m not that interested in paying for Supercharger access (either as an option or built into the price of the car). On family road trips, I want to stop on the schedule that works for the youngest kids not the car. I’d love a Tesla, but I’m not sure it would be our go to road trip car.

Thanks! I usually hit what I am aiming at.

There are only ~1200 Chademo chargers scattered across the USA (and some of which also employ a CCS plug) Not really significant, at least here in the US. (Europe though is another matter with ~6000 Chademo based chargers)Over there I would bet we might see a “smart” adapter coming from someone like BMW or Daimler. Here you can still charge the Bolt in your garage overnight on 240VAC which is what the majority of people will be doing. Most Tesla owners are not depleting all their range on a daily basis. Most either “top up” charge daily and others go 3-4 days without charging before they sneak over to the Superchargers to charge for free! 😉

why cant it look cool

I dunno, compared to the Leaf and the i3, I think the Bolt wins in the looks department hands down.

Compared to Jabba The Hut and Freddy Krueger, Danny DeVito wins a looks contest hands down.

Jabba the Hut still did better with the ladies!

OK, now you made me spit my coffee….

wait wait’s a total rip-off of the i3 design!

Compared to an M3 convertible or an Infiniti Q50 Rouge is doesn’t.

He said “cool”, remember?

Cool and practical are hard to achieve in one car. I think the Bolt looks good, but it will not be as cool as an i8.

Success Tesla

It’s a compact four door car. They may be able to look cute, but the are just too stubby and short to ever be able to look sleek and elegant.

Ummm methinks you didn’t bother to even watch the video. (in order to get some idea of the scale against GM personnel working around it and driving it) It’s somewhat larger that you are implying… 😉

it looks to me that the Bolt is about the same length as the Volt.

Agreed. Looks potentially too small.

I’m going to have to see it in person. When you see it on the road in clips, it looks like a prius. When you see someone stand next to it, it looks bigger than an i3.

Is 55 units normal? That seems like a large amount this early, but if its really is only 15 months from production maybe that’s the right amount.

Hopefully the learnings from Volt 1.0 and 2.0 cut down the time-to-market on future EVs.

I’m thinking the Spark EV is providing more direct parts, drivetrain and experience for the Bolt than the Volt. The Bolt battery pack however will be different than either the Volt or Spark EV.

The number of handbuilt mules ramps up, until they reach low-production cars. For an everyday car, yeah, 55 might be a lot at this point. For a brand new model, and not a Spark redesign either, 55 is fitting. Especially given how conservative the Volt battery was.

Sounds like they are putting significant resources behind this. I love Tesla, but it’s looking more and more like Chevy will beat them to market. If the Bolt gets 200 miles of range, is decent quality, and has a liquid-cooled battery like the Spark, I’m in. This will be the car I’ve been waiting for. And the fast that it’s a hatchback design is a big plus.

Yeah, I’m kinda right there with you, and 30+ years ago I swore I’d never buy anything from GM again.

The best way to think about it is you aren’t buying from the old GM.

Post bankruptcy GM under new leadership is on a different path, and it appears to be unleashing a new era of internal creativity and responsibility that was bottled up for decades.

My Chevy volt is the best car I ever owned.. And I’ve owned luxury cars. Chevy volt is the most underrated car on the market.. The 2016 version sounds amazing.. Who needs the bolt when the volt is perfect for everyday commuting and the occasional longer drive. So far I’ve been driving close to 90 percent on electric and no range anxiety

Wasn’t the ignition key fiasco part of the new GM? Even if not the same Management was driving the ship. I’m with holding judgement for awhile.

The ignition switch problem and the attitude that went with it was old GM. New GM got stuck with most of the fallout, but they fired the people at the root of the problem.

I bought a Vega from them. That pretty much says it all.

Hey I was young and stupid.

Now I am older…

Yes, but it won’t have the Supercharger network. CCS stations are still very rare and I don’t see GM building out a real network…

+ 100

Without that or an equivalent network, the Bolt cannot be the sole family car.


Defense. Moving the goalposts.

Still first down.

Superchargers are only for long distance travel, per Elon.

GM has BILLIONS of dollars at their disposal. They could partner with restaurants along the interstate (a couple of chains could give them access to almost every interstate exit) and build out a network very similar to the Tesla Supercharger network. It doesn’t have to be there day 1. Tesla sold the S in 2012 and the supercharger network still doesn’t cover all interstate routes. If GM built one out over 3-4 years like Tesla it would certainly be doable and within their financial means.

Except that with the GM supercharger, suddenly, suddenly, … nothing happens.

GM do look likely to beat the model 3 to market. Rather than feel beaten I believe Tesla and musk will be happy they gave successfully influenced OEMs to make market ready EVs.

For Musk its about changing the face of transportation. That’s why he announces his models years in advance, to encourage change.

All EV manufacturers win when the EV market grows.

This is going to be great. Tesla Gen III, Leaf, Bolt. 2017 could be “a very good year” for EVs. Could hit 100,000 units?

We’re basically doing 100,000 units per year NOW with the current generation EVs.. So, yeah, in 2017 I expect to see enormous growth. I expect to see huge growth in the BEV market (the vehicles you mention) and also in the PHEV market with the Volt leading the way…

Well said. All I can say is kudos to all three companies for pushing the boundaries. In only a couples years we will truly have choice in affordable EVs with more than enough range. 200+ miles will end the notion of EV range anxiety. People will realize it was an artificial notion anyway – my Leaf does fine for daily commutes and weekend getaways.

But roadtrips, this is where Tesla will still retain a strong advantage with Superchargers. The Model 3 will succeed as the highest volume EV for that reason, and the credibility the Model S has given the brand. Tesla’s branding far exceeds what the Volt has given GM or the Leaf for Nissan.

The key though is people will have affordability, practicality, and choice. This will cause a groundswell that will push EVs sales even into 7 figure territory. Me, I’m excited to watch this world changing event. I’ll patiently read about all three, as they begin to sell and get reviewed. Then I’ll pick the one that is best for me. At this point, I’m still betting on Tesla though…

200 miles sounds great.
I do think that to realistically and legally represent mileage of electric vehicles there should be a SAE type standard to accurately represent summer and winter. eg. 65kWh-SAE 135w200…just like oil.
This should be standard.

A big problem is whose summer and winter? A Buffalo winter or a San Diego winter? There are too many variables that affect range. Even ICE vehicles have different ranges depending on the weather.

Thats the great thing about new standards. My region would be Eastern Canada. It would be different from south western United States. If based on an average winter day in eastern Canada at -20 Celcius with heated seats heated steering wheel and heater on full blast it would be accurate. I rarely use ac in my leaf but California leafs probably do, so regional testing would be required. It’s very achievable and would increase consumer confidence in EV’s when purchasing them. The car companies are already sitting on all the data.

yes, but the two tiered mpc ratings could be based on avg’s at a specific temp, for say 20 degrees, and 80 degrees. I would even add a 3rd and put the 100 degree rating. Or maybe lump the 20 degrees with whatever it can achieve in hot weather. Like normal vs extreme cold/heat 20/100

“The Chevrolet Bolt EV’s chief engineer also added that these early test cars are already exceeding 200 miles of range.”

Under what conditions? Standard EPA combined test cycle? Constant 55 mph? Constant 25 mph?

If the 200 miles of range is under anything close to real world range and the price is similar to what they announced then we might get one of these if the Tesla Model 3 isn’t out when the lease on the BMW i3 is up.

But it still has to look and feel like a decent car. If it feels like an economy car with a cheap interior and isn’t fun to drive then it could have a 1,000 mile range and I wouldn’t want to own it.

If the same came out of Elon’s mouth it would be gospel and folks would get a spiritual high. GM has been consistently conservative with their range estimates for Volt and Spark, so you can extrapolate that in absence of any other evidence. It is not their first EV nor they have pulled range gimmicks unlike Nissan. So, if they are saying 200 miles, I will take for what is worth based on their body of work. May be 200 miles is an LTZ model, not sure. My faith is they are in the ball park.

Sri said:

“GM has been consistently conservative with their range estimates for Volt and Spark…”

Well, let’s see: GM originally claimed 40 miles range for the Volt (source 1), but the EPA said 35 miles (source 2). That’s a 14% exaggeration.

Tesla claimed 300 miles for the 2012-2014 Model S; the EPA says 265 miles. That’s a 13% exaggeration.

Nissan claimed 100 miles for the Leaf (and still does); the EPA said 73 miles on the 2011-2 test cycle. That’s a 37% exaggeration.

Well, if you’re comparing GM to Nissan, then yes they’re closer to telling the truth. But it’s rather counter-factual to claim GM hasn’t exaggerated, or that their claims regarding EV range are closer to the truth than Tesla’s.

And “conservative” certainly doesn’t fit any EV maker’s exaggerated claims for range, including those from GM.

Source 1:

Source 2:

i think that you’re being ridiculous. the EPA EV range on the Volt was actually 37 miles; that’s only 3 miles off from what GM said.

It’s 35 miles not 37 miles (37 is the mpg number of the ICE).

Actually, it’s 38 miles EPA
Here’s current the Volt data from the EPA


Nope, sorry. He was clearly talking about the 2011 Volt, which was 35 miles.

…except that EPA tests didn’t exist at that point, there were only proposed methods, which GM was using.

They used those same proposed methods for the 230mpg number, and then were shot down.

Beyond the EPA rating prediction versus actual, I’ll also point out that the Volt seems far superior to exceeding its EPA rated range than other vehicles with electric only ranges that are EPA rated.

FYI we’re talking about fall 2010 here. Could you even spell EV then? lol Anyways, FYI the 2011-12 Volt were EPA rated prior to any formalized EPA test procedure for an EREV even existing. The Volt has ALWAYS exceeded that number. AS of 2013 MY the Volt. SO what’s your point? Mine was Volt IS rated for 38 mile EPA AER when it’s design goals were 40 which is closer than ANY other EV ever produced. Stick that in your pipe and smoke it…

My point was simply that the 2011 Volt got 35 miles, not 38. The 2013+ Volts actually had a tweak that improved their range. I’m not sure why you are being so beligerent to me. I was simply reaffirming the number.

As for real world miles (which matter more than EPA ratings), my Leaf consistently falls short of even the 73 miles on its sticker whereas my buddy’s Volt consistently beats out the 38 miles on his Volt’s. So agreed, the Volt seems to do better in the real world. My understanding is that is due to the superior engineering of the Volt’s drivetrain. The dual-motor gearing is simply more efficient on the highway than the single gear reduction in my Leaf.

It will be interesting to see what GM does with the Bolt although I suspect that the drivetrain will be eerily similar to the Spark EV’s. So comparisons with the Spark’s range performance are likely much more valid than comparisons to the Volt. Can anyone chime in and tell us how the Spark EV compares in real life to its EPA rated range?

i just checked the sticker on my 2012 Volt and you are correct, the EV range is listed as 35 miles. but the percentage argument is ridiculous. in absolute terms, a 5 mile difference isn’t that significant. if GM had been talking up 40 miles of range and it turned out to be 20 of 25, that might be more significant. nissan was talking up 100 miles of range for the Leaf but the estimate turned out to be only 72 miles. falling nearly 30 miles short of the promoted range was significant.

Percentage-wise comparison is totally valid. Any “real world” contributions will be a hit on efficiency per mile and that affects ranges as a percentage, not as an absolute number.

percentage comparison only makes sense when you are comparing items that are on comparable scale, otherwise you get misleading results. for example, when people cite health statistics and say that certain things double the risk of some cancer that only occurs in 1 in 150,000 people, in percentage terms double is a big thing, but in absolute terms it is not significant.

Right, but efficiency factors such as air resistance, rolling resistance, and accessory load affect the car as a percentage, so percentage is the valid way to compare. You can’t give the Volt an advantage here simply because it has a smaller battery.

This is similar to the “mpg” thing. A loss of 1 mpg for a 50mpg car is far less significant than that of a 25mpg car.

EYI when GM claimed/targeted 40 miles the EPA test did even exist! lol The reality is at a current EPA rating of 38 miles, they came a lot closer than anyone else.

For the Leaf and the Model S the EPA test you speak of don’t have the battery charged to 100%.

either does anyone else! (for example the Volt is charges to 86% SOC maximum) so what is your alleged point exactly? lol

Methinks you are missing the point here. Battery percentages aside, the Leaf is NOT charged as high as it can possibly go. The 2011-2013 Leaf has an option to charge to “80%” or “100%”. Obviously one gets more range when charged to “100%”, but that is not the number on the sticker. In 2014, Nissan did away with the “80%” option, so magically the sticker range jumps from 73 miles to 84 miles. But the range didn’t actually change – Tony Williams thoroughly proved that.

The Volt doesn’t let the user set the upper charge limit. It limits itself every time, so “86%” is really “100%” of your potential charge.

Bottom line – 73 Leaf miles and 35 Volt miles (in 2011) are NOT apples-to-apples. However, 84 Leaf miles and 38 Volt miles (2015) ARE apples-to-apples.

And in real world testing the Gen I Volt EXCEEDS the EPA rated mileage. Who cares what the EPA rates a car at. I want to know real world range. GM is saying the current real world range of the Bolt test mules is over 200 miles. I believe Pam Fletcher on this one. They believe the EPA will rate the Gen II Volt at 50 EV miles range. The real world range will likely be 60. GM EV and PHEV vehicles consistently beat the EPA ratings in the real world.

People here seem to discount GM but believe master salesman Elon Musk.. GM has proven itself with the volt. Musk is all over the place. Too many people drinking his kool-aid or owning stock in Tesla so they come here and bash other car manufacturers

Yes, GM has proven that they can make a small car that cannot go very far on its battery power and this is a revolutionary step up from electric golf carts that have been around for decades. Keep on revolutionizing the car industry, cant’s wait until they sell even a smaller car that can only drive to destinations that are within an 70 mile radius of your home during the winter months.

You appear woefully ignorant on the Volt.

It is the only affordable vehicle available that can provide gas-free driving for the majority of the population’s daily commuting, while providing unlimited range for any trip you want to take without need to stop for more than 5 minutes to refuel.

Tesla can’t do that, neither can the Leaf. The Volt stands out in the crowd when people take the time to educate themselves.

Let’s look at it another way. After the EV1, which came out in 1996, and 15 additional years of research and development by GM, is the Volt really something to praise GM for producing or is it something they put out to appease the government. Do not forget that Toyota put out the Prius hybrid car in 1997 and GM’s answer to the Prius is the Volt 13 years later? That is the joke that GM is to people that know the history of their EV products. FYI Toyota has sold over 3.5 million Prius. How many Volts have been sold, not even 100,000. The Volt loses loads of money even with government’s help. Maybe you should praise the taxpayers, not GM.

There was not 15 years of R&D between the EV1 and the Volt Gen I, that is just an ignorant statement. They shelved the EV project and brought it back 3 years before the release of the production version of the Gen I Volt. They used a few lessons from EV1 but it was all new engineering in 3 years, which was remarkable. The Bolt was announced in Detroit in January 2015 and will go on sale in 2017. There are few other companies that can pull off product development cycles like that, especially Tesla. I am no GM fan (never even owned an American car, but next will be) but you have to give credit to the “new” GM and quit living in the past.

Let me get this straight, you have never owned a GM product and you are praising their management and engineering for pulling off this great product development cycle because they were idiots to shelve it for over a decade. Talk to me after a few years of owning their outdated cars they peddle to the people.
Listen, you can get a free test drive from Tesla just for asking them at Please drive one and promptly go to the Chevy dealer and drive a Spark EV. Then let everyone know your opinion. The Tesla Model S is not outselling the Volt because of a lower price, it is outselling the Volt because it is a far superior car in nearly every way and people are willing to pay 3-4 times the price of the Volt to own one. Now, go find out why and test-drive one.

Austin, the Model S outselling the Volt makes sense if you think about where they are in their model cycles. Because the Volt is in between generations, the currently available model is not even being produced and it has not been pushed. This is business as normal for auto manufacturers when there is a major redesign. Also, we should expect a bigger drop off in sales on outgoing plug in models because the technology is advancing at a rate where there is meaningful difference between generations.

Regardless, your numbers are wrong when it comes to cumulative U.S. sales. Even though they weren’t pushing it the last half of last year, it still outsold the Model S last year and every year the Model S has been out:

The only reason the Volt outsells the Tesla Model S is due to Tesla being new to manufacturing cars and they are ramping their output by 50% per year or more to try to meet the growing demand. What is the ramp in the Volt’s production?
Maybe you do not know that Tesla has over 25,000 Model X reservations as well and increasing by over 1,000 per month. Tesla also has thousands of Model S reservations that they are struggling to fill.

What was your excuse for GM having a drop in Volt sales for this year. Oh, because the outdated way to introduce an incremental improvement in a car is to wait until several years after after the car was introduced. Wow, in comparison, Tesla just introduces new features whenever they are ready and it drives their sales even higher. Same GM management making same mistakes, no news there.

Austin, do you own a Tesla ,And how many people do you know that have one hundred thirty thousand to buy one with all the goodies!!!!

Funny you bring up Toyota, they introduced the Prius in 1997 and after all this time they can only offer a 6 mile range Plug-in Prius that sells less than the Volt you criticize.

The cumulative sale totals for all Prius models are where they are at due to being a few generations in now. They stuck with it and gave it time for hybrids to move past early adopters and become mainstream. GM, Nissan and Tesla are doing the same for plug-ins that Toyota did for Hybrids.


You’ve praised the Model S and Prius, and criticized the Volt and included some interesting keywords that sound like you’re being brainwashed by cable news. It is a telltale sign of a misinformed troll.

In particular, “government help”, “loses loads of money” and “praise the taxpayers”. Both the Prius and the Model S have their own history with tax credits (not just in the U.S, but also Japan) that helped them along. The first years of the Prius and the Model S or no less profitable if you take into account R&D.

Austin, are you really going to mention the Toyota Prius and ignore the fact that they have pulled their only EV and are “appeasing the government” with a foll cell… er, fuel cell vehicle?

Your rant about GM, supposed years of R&D, and appeasing the government seems way out of line, but makes a lot more sense if you replace GM with Toyota and the Volt with the Mirai.

You said, “Toyota has sold over 3.5 million Prius. How many Volts have been sold, not even 100,000. The Volt loses loads of money even with government’s help. Maybe you should praise the taxpayers, not GM.”

It’s hard not to literally laugh out loud. People said the same kind of BS about the Prius when it sold in low volumes in its first years, and it also had tax credits just like plug-ins today.

Your biases are severely compromising your ability to perform an objective analysis.

Is this Austin dude using the same email address as Lensman? They both like to lecture people and both seem to make equally ridiculous statements.

The latest knee-slapper from Lensman was “Good grief, Bill. Lithium-ion batteries have around 2.5-3 times the average life of lead-acid batteries, when used for stationary storage.”.

Seeing as my wall telephone is battery backed up at the phone company central office by substantially 36 year old cells, that means lithium ion batteries would last 90-108 years. What an idiot.

Maybe they did say that about the Prius, but that was nearly 20 years ago. My frustration comes from the major US automakers giving everyone crappy cars that binds us to the oil industry and no way out. Along comes Tesla and they put together existing technology and produced an incredible car. Why was no other US automaker able to do that? Tesla did not invent that Li-ion battery or the electric motor. They had tiny resources compared to Ford and GM but they absolutely killed them with the Model S. Ford and GM still do not have an answer to it and it has been three years. GM puts out the ELR and it tanked. The Volt is losing money for them and who knows if they will ever recover development costs. Once the Tesla can keep up with demand and the Model 3 is out in all its different versions, Detroit execs will be going back to DC in their jets to ask for more money because of blah blah blah.

While the Volt is a best PHEV on the market and GM deserves kudos for that, 35 miles AER and 37mpg on the ICE didn’t exactly amaze people, esp. with the $41k price tag that that came with it.

However, the reason why Elon gets so much respect is because he did the “impossible”:
1) Made an EV that went over 200 miles per charge (Roadster, which supposedly inspired GM to make the Volt).
2) Made an EV that was the competitive with gasoline cars in its price class (something still not true with the Leaf and Volt today; remains to be seen if Bolt will change this).
3) Proved EVs can work for long distance by building the supercharger network.

And as an invention the Tesla is a complete failure while Volt is a super success. Why? Fact is Tesla’s range is 265 miles while the Volt is only 37 miles electric. Fact is Tesla has sold more cars than the Volt. Therefore we expect that the Tesla should have accumulated at least 7.1 times more EV miles than the Volt! The fact remains, the Volt has driven way more Electric miles than the Tesla!!! It only means that the Tesla owners are mostly hypocrite only to show their exclusivity of being rich and not really use the car as an everyday vehicle. The long range of the Tesla was a total failure as an invention. Of course Tesla has fleeced more money from their customers compared to GM’s Volt and in the fleecing of the rich was an astounding financial success of the Tesla. Congratulations for being suckered in!


The worldwide sales of the Volt, from 2011 through March, 2015, was 88,105 according to The Model S has 66,069 global sales. The Roadster had a limited production run of about 2,400, so total fleet is less than 69,000.

Further, the Volt has been on sale since December, 2010, while the Model S has been on sale since June, 2012. Just between the time the Volt started selling and the Model S started selling, there were almost 15,000 Volts on the road.

Not all of the Volt fleet is tracked in terms of miles – only those on OnStar tracking. As of last year, that fleet crossed 500 million electric miles.

Tesla just recently announced that their fleet has crossed 1 billion miles. Certainly, that means a lot of driving for a smaller and younger by average fleet.

My data has the Volt fleet at just over 800 million EV miles. (1.3 billion total miles)

The Volt has been out longer, and the super charger network is newer.

The rate of growth on Model S milage is much greater.

Watch for confirmation bias.

“The first principle is that you must not fool yourself and you are the easiest person to fool.” – Richard Feynman

It’s not hard to make a 200 mile bev or a 300 mile bev. Just use a bigger battery. As far as price competitive, Tesla has cumulative losses of 1.3B or 25k/car with no profits in sight until 2020 if that

i like the elon musk fanboys that post here; they will expatiate at length with praise for the Tesla Model S but if you ask how many of them have actually bought one you would get sudden silence.

If it is similar to the Volt you will get a range of high 20s in very cold weather and mid to high 40s in the summer. So the EPA 38 miles represents good average of these extremes.

Having a 200+ EPA MPG rating passes a big psychological barrier that hopefully GM can fulfill.

GM quotes EPA numbers.

Yes, once they existed…

200 miles is not a surprise at this time of the year. in an EV, you can expect to get more miles that EPA estimate during warmer months and less during winter months in cold climate areas. i get double the range in warmer months than i do in winter.

So, you’re unaware of the Central Canadian proving grounds, as opposed to the Arizona proving grounds. As opposed to all the private and academic sites, themselves opposed to all the overseas sites.

What, you thought they built 55 test vehicles after the Sammy Hagar song?

For CARB ZEV credits, it is extremely important to GM that the Bolt is a Type III to claim 4 credits – 200+ mile range. This range is calculated using UDDS standard. Using this standard, the original 85 kWh Model S is a 300+ mile range vehicle and the Nissan Leaf is a 100+ mile range vehicle. UDDS emphasizes city range. For a 2013 Nissan Leaf, UDDS standard means 211.7 Wh/mi at 70 degrees F, or 110.9 miles of range. EPA range of 75 miles at 90% of the battery is on the sticker, which corresponds to 83 miles for 100%. Which means UDDS is about 75% of EPA 5 cycle for these kinds of urban style vehicles. It is likely that GM is going to put in the minimum battery in order to achieve the UDDS range of 200+ miles. That means a likely EPA 5 cycle range of 160 miles. By all appearances, the Bolt isn’t designed for efficiency for long range traveling at 70+ mph highway speeds, so actual performance traveling at 65 or 75 mph is likely worse than this indicates. But a realistic range of 45 miles in each direction, 90 miles total at highway… Read more »

“It is likely that GM is going to put in the minimum battery in order to achieve the UDDS range of 200+ miles. That means a likely EPA 5 cycle range of 160 miles.”

That makes perfect sense. Thanks for the explanation.

They’ve always been talking about exceeding an EPA 200 miles on the Bolt, none of this city cycle stuff.

FYI GM is working with, and stating EPA cycles NOT UDDS- WOT

“it still has to look and feel like a decent car”

+1 I want more than just a 200 mile range. I also want a smooth ride (unlike the i3) and very little road noise.

I think the Orion factory is in Michigan, not Ohio.

Good then Elon has succeeded! The needle is moving.

Yes. This is the action of a corporation that’s finally woken up, seen the new global regulatory and marketplace pressures and said, “We won’t fade into that good night, without a fight.”

Awesome to watch.

Not sure yet. This may be the counter move of a corporation trying to reduce the sales of a true ev manufacturer. They make ev but 4 seater and small, a bit the same as the BMW i3 actually. We are not there yet that they are really committed to ev and come up with an entire lineup of ev cars and start to positively emulate on each other.

GM did their best to kill electric cars in early 2000. They do not deserve our support now. Watch the movie” Who killed the electric car”. Buy your EV from any company other than GM.

Stop drinking the conspiracy Kool-Aid… Every major automaker did this, not just GM.

Why do people disparage others by disparaging Kool Aid? I used to love Goofy Grape when I was a little kid.

Haha, +1 Woodster 🙂

I just think their spokesperson is kind of a jerk, breaking everyone’s walls and all that.

Haha, I LOL’d

This really isn’t the same GM. Not only was that introduced a couple of decades earlier but GM went through a bankruptcy.

I recommend judging the car on its own merits.

How do you judge a car on its own merits when the federal government gives all buyers over 20% rebate on the MSRP and gives loan/bail-out money to GM to make the car. Let’s not forget the state incentives a well. In Texas You can finance the whole car over 5 years and basically drive the car for free for 16 months with the $10,000 federal and state incentives. Hard to judge the car on its own merits when the government is paying nearly one-third of the bill.

People like you prefer to live in a free-market society where entrenched companies thwart all innovation that threatens their profits.

Others of us prefer to live in a public-private partnership society where various levels of government incentivize and coerce innovation so that society and technology can progress despite opposition by entrenched companies. Without these incentives and coercions, companies like Tesla would be much less likely to be successful and GM, BMW, Nissan, VW, etc., would continue producing only pure ICE vehicles.

“Rebate” haha… Well, I hope if you own a house, you don’t take those “rebates” on your mortgage interest, or if you have kids, I hope you don’t take those “rebates” for child care. I could go on and on about all the “rebates” that are available beyond EV’s in our nation’s tax code.

I’m guessing, however, that when you submit your tax returns, you don’t just put your income, but add lots of deductions on there.

The “rebate” you are referring to is just another tax credit, and it was introduced by the Bush administration. We are paying less taxes in, just like all the other tax credits out there, and only if we have that existing tax liability.

We are not getting a “rebate”


+1. It was my money to start with, they are just letting me keep a little more of it!

Austin, the Federal Tax credit available to other manufacturers are not just GM. They are available, and have been used, by the other manufacturers you’ve praised elsewhere in this thread. Same with government loans. Your own comments contradict your view on the topic.

I bought a 2011 Volt and its the best car I’ve ever owned. I’ll never have a ICE only vehicle again. I’m leaning to Volt 2 but will wait till it’s been out a year or so as I’m still loving my 2011.

Agreed. But if GM really does come out with a 200+ mile range EV that comfortably seats 4… before Nissan does, then I will be seriously tempted. They will have proven themselves and I’ll stop worrying about who killed it the first time around.

I worry about smaller, lighter cars in winter getting the traction and heat that I need. I remember the original VW bugs with their lack of heat when the temperature dropped below 25’f, and there are lots of those days and nights.

I like the Volt, because the ICE will prevent me from turning into ICE.

I have always driven small cars and the ability to heat and cool has nothing to do with the size of the car but rather the engineering. I has a small Volvo that could melt your face in the winter but couldn’t cool in the summer (makes sense for a Swedish company) and a small VW that heats like the devil and cools like Mr. Freeze! In my company car fleet experience GM cars are engineered for passenger comfort and heat and cool really well.

No one killed the electric car. The EV1 wasn’t that good really (but it has been hugely hyped) and it was very expensive to produce. The EV1 didn’t make financial sense, it’s really that simple.

Except the cars were already built, and in the hands of happy owners. What was the problem with leaving them in happy hands… and not hauling them to the compactor?

If left in the hands of owners, GM would have to provide 7 years of parts for the Ev1 and warranty work. Given that the Ev1 was hugely expensive and leased at a loss, why exactly would GM want to incur 7 years of losses on parts and warranty?

GM would have been required by law to supply replacement parts for them for another 10 years. They did not (could not) want to do this so they crushed them all (most).

Leave them all with selvage titles. Done and done.

GM had little choice but to dispose of the EV1s. Problem was they went about it in such a cavalier fashion that resulted in some iconic bad press video clips that still make the rounds.

On the other hand, I do think that bad press helped galvanise GM’s decision to be a leader in the the current round of EV development.

GM is a leader in EV development???? They are not even a close follower.

Do you work for them or trying to get a job with them?
OK, now that makes sense.

Except the fact that ALL EV1s were destined for the crusher the day they were built! It was an engineering exercise after all. Do you have ANY idea how many cars major OEMs crush each year? lol Doubtful if you are getting all your understanding of the EV1 program off a low budget documentary and Wikipedia. lol

So, we are truly only 1 year away from the launch of Bolt…

Great news!

Looks like the Bolt is going to be a great EV. My concern is that it won’t have a halfway decent QC network to support it. If it doesn’t, I’ll be driving a Model III instead.

Actually, if you look at PlugShare, it is not that terrible. Okay, not like Chademo, but still not that far from SuperCharger network. And until the Bolt is here, we can think the network is going to be better at that time.

I have looked at PlugShare. I live in Syracuse NY. Look for yourself. There are no CCS chargers within 200 miles of me. There are only 1 or 2 CHAdeMOs. Meanwhile, there are 4 operational Supercharger stations (each with multiple stalls), and at least two more planned. It really doesn’t matter to me what the network looks like in Seattle. I will buy the car that is supported in my own area.

That said, we can’t buy this car for a few more years anyway. I will certainly check again before buying anything. That’s why I said “if”.

You seem to be conveniently leaving out that the NYS Thruway is in the midst of installing charging stations on the Thruway, and anticipates making that thruway-wide if the model works.

The next few years should really see a formidable increase in the CCS infrastructure.

Not really. The only planned QCs on the thruway are just about 200 miles from here. And they are just that – planned. Although they were supposed to be turned on by Memorial Day 2015, to my knowledge they have not yet broken ground.

I stand by my statements. Looking today, neither CCS nor CHAdeMO exists in any usable location for me, even given a Bolt or a Leaf II. In two years when both cars are availble? I don’t know. Hence “if”.

Well, as stated, the installation of those stations are said to be a pilot program. So as I said, assuming success, they will be implemented across the thruway.

Given that and the context of you being aware of conversations I’ve had with people closely coupled to the Thruway trying to negotiate for EV chargers across the whole distance, I’m surprised your stance is that such a plan doesn’t exist.

“your stance is that such a plan doesn’t exist”

Um, where did I state that? No, my stance is that no such plan has been publicly announced, which is true. If you have a public source, please share it with us all. If you are talking about the same people I’m thinking about, I’ve talked with them too. There are discussions. They are “looking into it”. But there were also discussions for providing E85 at every rest stop, as well as electrical outlets for trucks so they don’t have to idle their engines while they sleep. Neither of them have come to fruition.

And my point is simply that I will make the choice when the car is available and I’m looking to buy a new car. At that time (multiple years after the Bolt is first released), I will evaluate the charging infrastructure. Looking forward 5 years from now, I have doubts that CCS will be as robust as Superchargers, at least in Upstate NY and northern New England.

One thing to keep in mind with a 200 mile Bolt, is that you could go drive round trip to Rochester, Binghamton, Watertown, Utica, Ithica, etc. That is without using a charger. And if you can find a destination charger (even L2 if you are going to be there awhile), you could drive to Niagra Falls, Albany, Buffalo, Scraton, etc.

I’m trying to think about how I drive currently, and if 200miles w/destination will satisfy 99% of my driving in Michigan. I definitely need to sit down and spend more time looking at all the places I go, but I have a year or more to do this.

(also need to factor in winter driving.. ugh)

Brian would only have targ at my house for around 2 hours assuming a 7.2 kw charger. This website is dropping chars again.

…though back to my original comment, I certainly agree that there are not many around right now. My point was more that it seems more likely that there will be some in 2 years from now.

“Decent QC Network” Now, Brian you’ve hit on an important point that can be viewed from several angles. 1). GM will sell MANY BOLTS. This car does not have GM’s ‘Megacharger Backup (ICE)’. Therefore, to go cross-county, there will either have to be a built up CCS network, or else: 2). No more 3.3-3.6 kw chargers for this car. Its interesting that SUNCOUNTRYHIGHWAY (selling in Canada the rebranded ClipperCreek products, – with myself as a current E-Mazing Race ‘racer’ participant – its not really a race, its really more of a TOUR – the winner gets a free SCH charger dock) is the official ‘charger’ for Vtrux (VIA), and the Canadian Version fully utilizes a CS90 (SEVENTY – TWO Amps !!!! ) – thats even better than my old Roadster. So, will people use a 15 amp docking station in their home for this car or out on the road if they can’t find a CCS? Or, as proven by the Canadian version of the Vtrux, will Chevy provide the car with the level 2 ability to charge at 72 amps, which would give a full charge in around 4 hours. Hopefully for home use they at least provide a… Read more »

Well, I would like to hope that a 72A or even a full 80A on board charger (the max for the J1772 protocol) would be an option. I might be willing to pay extra for that, especially with our local benefactor (Ron) having donated some of those Sun Country Highway units. Heck, I might donate one or two myself!

I don’t need to drive cross country, but I would like to be able to travel to Buffalo. Or to visit my brother in Portland, ME. Or other family in Burlington VT or Long Island. Basically I would like the freedom to drive anywhere in the northeast. I need that in at least one of my two family cars. Bolt is great and all, but I would be surprised if a network like that appeared in the next 5-10 years.

It seems like all the “big” automakers are sticking with 6.6kW max AC chargers. Maybe because of on-board charger cost, or weight, or availability of stations that can provide that much power, or all the above?

Not sure, but I see the allure of DC charging stations as cost/weight/size goes up for an on-board AC-sourced charger.

From a versatility standpoint (ignoring C-SWaP) I can see the value of having these options on a vehicle for sure.

The i3 has a 7.2 kw charger and the MB B Class has a 10 kw charger.

The e-Golf also has a 7.2kW charger. But frankly the difference between 6.6kW and 7.2kW is hardly noticeable.

As an EV “pioneer”, I want my car to be as versatile as possible with regards to charging. If that means paying more for a charger I only occasionally use, I may decide to do so. Besides, it’s likely much cheaper for me to buy a 20kW OBC and donate an 80A EVSE than to buy a CCS port and donate a CCS charger. From a user perspective, it makes more sense to carry the charger and install much cheaper EVSEs everywhere. From a large fleet (i.e. long-term) perspective, it makes more sense to install a cheap, light, small OBC and install larger quick chargers where they can be shared by many cars.

Let’s not forget that we are still in the early days here. It will be a decade until we have enough cars on the road to support the latter model. In the meantime, I want every EV I buy to be as versatile as possible.

It is pretty hard to argue with the Tesla model. 10 kW on board and DC charging on trips.

The key is a business model for the charging infrastructure. I am actually scratching away a piece to cover this under-appreciated aspect on Plug-In growth. Tesla is the only one to have found a working model, by baking the cost into (expensive) car upfront. It remains to be seen how this will scale and work at lower price points.

Supposedly, the wholesale price of car chargers is $130-230/kw.

But you’d never know it from Nissan stickers. I was at the local dealer a month ago, and they wanted $1780 for the ‘6.6 kw’ over the ‘3.6 kw’ (both Nissan’s numbers for 2015). This was the ‘charging package’ , and you also got a Chademo jack.

BUt At that price, for myself I’d skip the 6.6

The 200 mile range is awesome. They are going to cannibalize Volt sales with that kind of utility. I would splurge a bit to do that, as there would be no reason to keep our gas car as a backup, we’d only need to rent a car for really long trips (which I tend to do anyway to keep the mileage down on my own cars).

It’s more likely to put the spotlight on electrification acceptance by promoting more choice:

You want a hybrid? Malibu
You want an EREV? Volt
You want a BEV? Bolt

It certainly validates GM’s commitment to electrification.

Yes. There are some people who insist on the ability to head off for another state (even if they never actually do so). And some only need to run errands, appointments, etc., and are OK with buying a ticket/getting a rental, 2 or 3 times a year. Are either of these “wrong” ownership models or purchasing requirements?

Personally, I’d rather read or work than stare at an interstate. But I have bus, train, and plane options many don’t have.

Add, you want luxury PHEV – CT6

Where is the PHEV CUV?

Got to wonder if the new Bolt won’t be powered by a Sakti-3 solid state Li-ion battery.

Toyota, also has a promising solid-state-battery program according to Fortune magazine: “So far the carmaker has installed a solid-state lithium-ion battery only in an electric scooter, though it says that by 2020 the batteries could be ready to power a 300-mile-range electric car.”

250 mile range combined with 20 min. super-charge.


jmac said:

“Got to wonder if the new Bolt won’t be powered by a Sakti-3 solid state Li-ion battery.”

Nope. The Bolt, just like the rest of the upcoming nominally “200 mile” EVs, will be powered by LG Chem’s new cheaper battery cells.

The only exception is the Tesla Model ≡, which will be powered by the Panasonic/Tesla cells from the Gigafactory.

Solid-state batteries are an interesting development, but have yet to be commercialized or mass produced.

If so, the Bolt is going to weigh over 4000 lbs as is will need a 54+ kwh battery. VW also has a solid state battery project with QuantumScape and is to provide a status update this month. If the Bolt is not using new battery technology, I don’t know why they have to be so evasive about battery specs, and also don’t know how they can do it for 37K without a battery breakthrough

Heh. GM’s “Dog Piling” people to push this thru.

The idea is basically this: Someone very important with lots of resources asks you for a baby. But 9 months isn’t a timeframe they’re willing to wait it. So, instead of giving the job to one person to do– they get nine people on the taks, and baby is expected to be ready in a mere month. ;D

Anyone else work on projects set up like this? Even down to competing teams on the same project, in other parts of the world? 😀

We’ll see what kind of issues that kind of development chaos brings to the table, when they release it to the public…

It will probably have ill fitting doors. . . . Oops! Wrong company. Never mind. 😀

But nine women can produce one baby in one month… if one of the nine is already eight months pregnant. 🙂

It’s not like GM needed to start from zero in building a pure EV drivetrain, since GM produced the EV1 back in 1996-1999. And how long had GM been working on a new BEV before we became aware of it? Maybe just as long as that eight-months-pregnant woman was growing a baby… or perhaps longer.

Not to mention two generations of Volt and The Sonic BEV. They didn’t start working on this the day the concept was revealed in Detroit either. Likely in development in parallel to the Sonic EV and Gen II Volt. Andrew Farah at GM said that they started the Gen II Volt development basically as soon was the Gen I went on sale.

Sorry, should have typed Spark BEV.

A woman can produce a baby in a month if it started eight months ago.

Best tautology club is best tautology club!


This is a car not a baby. A highly parallel process compared to gestation. So, yes, up to a point more bodies on the task makes the process faster.

Anon, they’ve been working up to this for much longer than 9 months.

I remember commenting on a Spark EV post about it serving a dual purpose to get some low volume R&D experience while battery prices came down, and get a little compliance credits in the process.

Dear GM,

Please also make an AWD SS version. If you do, I will buy your Bolt SS instead of a Tesla. Thank you.

Best Regards,


+1 on the AWD.

it makes a lot of sense, indeed i would said that it is a requirement, that the Bolt supports DC fast charging.

Car looks pretty small in the video. Hope it seats 4 comfortably or I’ll have to wait for the next LEAF.

Main problem with the Volt is that its too small inside with too little space. Battery takes up too much interior space.

I believe in the initial release of information at 2015 NAIAS they said it would seat 5 comfortably, there is a flat battery pack and flat floor so no hump in the center. It’s also a CUV/Hatch style car so much more head room. It’s also not small, I went to NAIAS specifically to check out the new Volt and the Bolt, it looked to be slightly bigger than a Sonic, with much more interior room, certainly much larger than a spark. I was, however, concerned with the horizontal trunk space. Seemed to be a lot of vertical space, but only maybe 2 feet of horizontal space in the trunk area.

This is great news!! I think those who are pooh-poohing the bolt based on its interior should give it a second thought.

Cheap interiors in a gas cars result in driver fatique due to excess noise and vibration. In a pure BEV, there will only be wind/tire noise and suspension vibration.

I think both the general public and GM will be surprised by the positive reception of the Bolt, once people experience how quick, responsive, and smooth the BEV will be. It will be compared with the hot hatches, and NOT the spark.

The only possible demerit is the build quality and suspension work? I just spent a weekend with a 2014 Chrysler town & country and was appalled by its lack of responsiveness/power, handling, cargo capacity, and luxury as compared to my 2008 Hondy Odyssey EX-L.

For me its the Tesla Model 3 all the way! Their Supercharger network is the #1 compelling reason for me to buy that car. No other car can offer that type of consistency and I can’t relay on DCQC networks. The only way I don’t get a Model 3 is if its so far delayed that the $7500 tax credit is gone. If the credit is gone, I jump on another bandwagon, either the Bolt or Leaf2

The news here is GM is actually participating in developing the mass BEV market.

I don’t care who makes the best styled car, I’m just satisfied that at last a major American car maker is serious about selling EVs rather than fighting not to sell them.

Does Ford sell EVs. Haven’t hear from them for awhile.

Ford sells three models of EV:

Ford Fusion Energi
Ford C-Max Energi
Ford Focus Electric

All of them are gas-car conversions, of course, meaning that they have poor designs.

But if you add them all together, they’re selling as many per month as the Chevy Volt + Spark.

Which is still a lot less than the Leaf or the Model S.

Glad to here GM is pushing hard to develop a full market BEV but wish they would reconsider the U.S. specs. There is little market for the unlimited range gas versions of the Spark and Sonic. How much market have they fooled themselves into believing there is for $37,000 BEV version with limited fast charging capability? This is a $12k car with a $25k battery. Make a faster, lighter, and cheaper 140mile version for $29,500 and there will be a lot more market for it.

No matter what some folks think here or GM has convinced themselves of, most Americans with NOT see this as a long range, highway vehicle. At the very least offer a spot in line reservation program for both versions with estimated pricing and make an educated decision about which to produce or perhaps to produce both. I’m supremely confident a sub $30k 140 mile version would have at least a 4/1 margin over the $37k 200 mile offering. Problem is the @140 mile Leaf will be out by then at around $30k and this larger, established model with getting most buyers attention unless GM does something differently from either version of a Bolt.

“Sell well” (not seel…)

Ok, lets check:

We heard LG Chem Batteries are a little bit cheaper than the AECS Batteries (Nissan). Nissan is at the moment probably around 300$/kWh (source: So lets asssume the LG Chem Batteries manages to get 280 $/kWh.

To travel 60-80 miles you need around 21 Wh (around 30kWh/100miles, Leaf territory). So you would save around 21*280$ = 5880$.

GM says the Bolt will be around 37k$ (ex incentive). So reasonabily you could make a 140 mile version for around 31k$. Shave 1k$ off somehow and you are under 30k$. Sounds reasonable.

I hope for GM & EV’s in general that it will seel well. If it doesn’t it will be a signal for other car makers that EV’s are not(yet) worth the investment. I am also glad GM makes it real. Looking at it from Europe, I don’t know what GM did to you guys but for sure they get their load of terrible comments from many. In stark contrast with Tesla. Its quite surprising considering the obvious commitment GM as for car electrification (Bolt, the Volt 1 & 2).

The GM hate comes from a long time of that company being a super cheap poor quality manufacturer. They also experimented in building a pure EV a while back. They recalled all the cars and crushed them, leading to conspiracy theorists crying foul of course. But they blame GM for electric cars taking this long to develop. IE: if GM had kept developing it 20 years ago we would be much further along now. The problem with that is, nearly all of the GM management went away with the recent bankruptcy. The new leadership is completely different now and is focusing more on build quality and superior engineering.

So basically they are angry at an old company that doesn’t exist anymore and projecting that anger onto the current GM management because, well, they are idiots to be honest.

No matter weither you prefer GM, Nissan or Tesla when it comes to 200-mile economy BEVs…this is history in the making and hopefully it will be a huge success.

The success will start once the MSRP of ICE and BEV silblings are the same and the BEV gets around 150-250 miles range.

TCO is already the same. Too bad the average buyer is about as rational on TCO as they are on extended warranties for solid-state electronic gear.

TCO depends on miles driven per year.

TCO is better for electric cars than for gas cars if you drive them a lot.

TCO is better for gas cars than for electric cars if you drive them hardly at all.

…interestingly, the “drive hardly at all” market seems anecdotally to have a pretty strong preference for electric…

Sure they’ll probably beat the Model III to market, but who cares. Doesn’t anyone realize that this is just the Spark EV with 2.5x the battery capacity. You would have really fudge some numbers to justify spending an additional $15k+ to electrify a Spark or justify the increased range of a Spark EV. There’s a reason that the video doesn’t show it near any other vehicles, or you’d realize how incredibly tiny it is. If Tesla brought this to market as the Model III, it would be game over for Tesla.

WOW. And I thought the Prius/Echo false equivalence was a hatchet job.

hahaha You don’t know of which you speak! I suggest you watch the video taking not of the dimensions when people approach or operate the car. This is not a Spark EV! WOT

I think this is great. The more EVs… the better for humanities future. GM announced that they were going to make the Volt in 2007, but it was not available until Dec 2010. They sold only 8000 in 2011, and they peaked in 2012 with about 25,000 sold. That has hardly been consequential. Tesla has sold more of their $100,000 Model S than GM could sell of their Volts with almost a two year head start to market. If the Bolt beats the Model 3 to market it will probably be limited to how many battery packs they can get from LG. Tesla is building the worlds largest battery factory (GigaFactory). They are gearing up for 500,000 / year production of the Model 3. This is a serious commitment and will start to make a real change in our transportation energy consumption. I’m just very skeptical that GM will ever catch up with Tesla. The other thing is that a Model 3 will have access to Tesla’s Supercharger Network. It charges at a rate more than twice of the fastest CHAdeMO chargers. It makes long distance travel real. Full disclosure: I’m a Model S85D owner, and have logged over 8000… Read more »

I wish they would all just jump on one standard for super charging and they might as well pick the fastest and most developed network.

Seems silly to my that they don’t all jump on Tesla’s offer to share the super charger network because it’s a HUGE marketing advantage for Tesla.

I believe GM is planning to make about 30K max, of the Bolt in its first year. So they have limited themselves, and that is probably based on market expectations and the nationwide rollout happening a few states at a time. I do agree about the advantage of the SC network, but buying a car from GM has it’s advantages too. I’d have a much better warm-fuzzy then I would buying from a small new startup (Tesla). Also, the SC network isn’t free. You are paying for it when you buy your car, or you are writing a check afterwards if you want to join the network. Most people cannot afford a car that cost six figures out the door. You say Tesla has sold more of its Model S than Volts, but the data I’m looking at doesn’t support that claim. (worldwide data). Note GM really only sells the Volt in the US anyway. There were some Amperas sold in Europe, but not many. And even few Holden Volts. I don’t know how many more plug-ins GM has to come out with to convince the naysayers about their commitment. They already sell 3, an EREV, a BEV, and a… Read more »

Very easy and simple answer to your question

“I don’t know how many more plug-ins GM has to come out with to convince the naysayers about their commitment.”


By the very same logic you have, all manufacturers that are selling EVs are committed too in selling EVs – as in, committed to the quota on compliance vehicles. Still, it’s a commitment.

Looking @ GM, you’ve lump summed vehicles that will soon to be stop production, and limited roll out/niche vehicle, or compliance status, etc., and you are questioning why there are naysayers?

Londo, I’m pretty sure there is nothing GM will ever do to satisfy you. Whatever you dream up, if GM did it, you would just dream up something else.

I’ve already answered your “statement” on

“I’m pretty sure there is nothing GM will ever do to satisfy you.”

But in case you miss it


You asked a question, I gave you an answer.

What’s worst, you asked a question on why there are naysayer – were you expecting a “oh yeah, because we the naysayers are crazy and dreamer” type of answer?

If you are so stuck with GM IS EVERYTHING mentality, then please don’t ask a question, especially one that will give you a counterpoint answer!

Londo, what do you mean by ‘PROMOTE THEM’?

How much $$ has Tesla spent on promotion? Nothing beyond company organized events.

GM’s problem is there are too many GM doubters like you who continually sow negative commentary on GM products and intentions with electrification.

As well, the green media is still largely run by writers still treating GM as the boogieman who killed the electric car, this site included. And people like you continue to get sucked into the rhetoric.

The Bolt is a fully electric car which is promised to offer 2x to 3x the range of any and all of today’s EVs in the sub-$60k price range – how can you not support the effort?

I don’t believe they are committed until is see a VoltUV, or maybe I am just being selfish…

I don’t know what data you’re looking at, but all the data I’ve seen says that Model S has outsold Volt by any measure. (Leaf has also outsold Volt by any measure.)

At the moment, the electric car business has two major companies: Tesla and Nissan. They’ve neatly segmented the market, with Tesla taking the high-margin top end and Nissan taking the low-margin bottom end.

BMW is making a big push, and I’m not quite sure where they’ll end up, but they seem to be targeting the “upper middle”, above Nissan but below Tesla. Tesla’s Model 3 will probably compete with BMW but looks likely to be slightly higher-margin.

With the Bolt, GM seems to be aiming for the lower-middle, just above Nissan but below BMW. We’ll see if they manage to take that market. It seems to be a particuarly difficult market segment, and *everyone’s* going to be moving in on it.

I was under the impression that access to the Supercharger network was a $2000 option. Is this incorrect?

P85 & 85D have the SC net built into the price. The lower priced Model Ss have the $2000 option at purchase, or $2500 later during ownership.

All versions of the Model S now come with supercharging standard and I believe it’s activated in all CPOs too.

I believe Supercharger access is standard on all new Models Ss now. I don’t expect that to continue for the Model 3.

BUT only if you are travelling long distance on an inter-state or highway. They ARE NOT to be used for “regular” daily use charging apparently. lol WOT

Why would you expect Tesla to completely change their model of prepaid charging? They will probably have a $2000-2500 option on the Model 3 to “activate” supercharging. The hardware will be built in for sure. Elon said that so far the business model of prepaid supercharging is working well. Let look at it another way. Say Tesla sells 500,000 model 3s and they all go for the supercharging option at $2000 per car, Well that is $1B that can go towards building more superchargers or expanding superchargers. Say they take half of that and put it towards expanding the Supercharger network. At an average of $150K for each installation that is over 3000 new superchargers that can be built that year. Now they take the other half and put it towards electricity at a national average of 12 cents per kWhr, well that is enough to travel 14 Billion electric miles! As time goes on, less money needs to be spent on Superchargers and Tesla can invest that money into putting in Solar to offset the supercharger energy consumption. Its a brilliant model! You really have to drive a Tesla to appreciate how easy the Supercharger network is to use.… Read more »

I wonder if GM will actually advertise and market the Bolt?

I’ve bought two Volts at a dealership in Abilene, Texas and that dealership has “bailed” on the Volt with no plans of ever placing on in inventory again. The demand is not here, neither is the “story-telling” and thus sales are terrible.

A Bolt actually would work very well for me and I’d more than likely buy one, but I doubt if my dealership is going to sell them. Actually a Bolt would work better for me than my Volt, but I suspect the nearest dealer that would sell then would be a 400 mile round trip from here. And if I couldn’t get it serviced locally (which might happen with my Volt, if this dealer looses their only Volt technician) it means no Bolt in my future.

That dealer needs to get their head out of the sand. If they plan to sell the new Malibu Hybrid, they better be on board with the Volt as well. Probably the first of many variants to use pieces of Voltec technology.

Never considered a GM, but I want a Bolt.

My 2012 volt just turned 82,000 miles. my work commute is 44 miles round trip. I never make it home w/o using about 8 miles of gas. I can’t charge at work. I just got back from my sixth Florida to Ohio trip in the Volt. While I love it, finding a charging spot was impossible everywhere I went, including my dad’s house and my best friends house whose outdoor outlets didn’t work w the charger. Gas mileage at 80 mph was terrible at 34mpg. And yes I go non-stop so going 80mph is necessary to do the trip in 17 hrs. straight. I used a blnk charger once but it charged a ridiculous 3 cents per minute of charging. I got 7 miles of charge for $2.10. Crazy and not worth it obviously. Ok, so my whole point is if a crazy electric car lover like me was completely frustrated while trying to charge my car on stops and overnights and at sightseeing venues then how do we expect Joe-six-pack americans to embrace this new way of life?! And by the way after owning this car for four years my family members still ask me how I could make… Read more »

“Ok, so my whole point is if a crazy electric car lover like me was completely frustrated while trying to charge my car on stops and overnights and at sightseeing venues then how do we expect Joe-six-pack americans to embrace this new way of life?!”

What’s more, your Volt doesn’t HAVE to charge – that’s the beauty of the EREV design. By contrast, the Bolt will have no other option but to charge, making it an even harder leap for your average consumer.

It saddens me to see all the EV bashing in these comment threads. One thing I really like about Elon is his interest in electrifying transportation, even opening patents to encourage more EVs on the road. I suspect Elon cringes when he reads all these Tesla fanboys bashing the other EVs. Not everyone wants to spend $100k on a car (or can afford to), yet any EV is creating a better future for our children and children’s children. That’s more important than the badge on the front of your car.

I agree. The amount of bashing, insults and put downs found on InsideEVs comments these days is very unfortunate.


Has GM tested how well the Bolt crushes after all of them are recalled and GM ends the program like with the EV1? Just saying…

You mean.. “just trolling”

(and not very well BTW)

I don’t think I have ever seen anyone that actually knows anything about electric cars bring up the EV1 as anything other than a noble, (albeit WAY too expensive to produce), early effort.
The unit cost to produce them fell to just over $100,000 at the end of production and the leases had to be subsidized in a big way to make them affordable enough. No wonder the leasees loved them. They were handbuilt $100,000 cars that leased in many cases for less than $500 a month!

so weak! lol Here’s a buck, go buy some worms! lol

You forgot to add “WOP” to the end of your comment. How will we know it was from you when we finish reading it?

Apologies. Should have said “WOT” not “WOP.” These things are very tricky. POR

Oh boy, after some close to 200 posts, how many of these are fanboys vs fanboys arguments, instead of actual discussion of the vehicle? It’s certainly good news to see progress on EVs. No doubt about it. OTOH, I do have a couple of remainders. What you are seeing – you have to understand that this is straightly from GM’s viewpoint, and what GM wants to show you. Thus, unless you are a fanboy, take everything as a grain of salt. Like some have suggested here, the range itself is questionable as to the condition to achieve it, because, well, if someone was to go over to the LEAFs forum, they can easily find the posts on various owners going over 100 miles on a full charge too. The other things that one have to think about are the crash tests worthiness, and the safety of the vehicle. If one is look @ today’s Tesla fire news, you have to think about packing such a high density energy battery into a small car, and the risk of that. Remember, Tesla is a big car, so under most condition, it is relatively safe from impact damage. Also, one have to look… Read more »

Yes, it looks like the range they are talking about is actual test range accomplished by driving on roads and getting hard numbers.

On the other hand, the EPA range numbers are calculated on a dyno, and aren’t actually done by actually driving around. So we really won’t know much about how it compares to other EV’s until the official EPA numbers are released. There are plenty of Leaf owners who manage to get well over the EPA estimates….

With that said, this is definitely an EV to watch. It has great potential.

More a Fan boy vs. Bolt/Volt/GM hater…

The pack leader of the Bolt/Volt/GM hater is Londo Bell…


Why is GM making such an ugly bug shaped EV? Can’t they hire some artistic designers?

I’ll take rear headroom over artistic design any day.

Because the CUV / Small Crossover is an extremely popular and fast growing segment of the auto industry. Plus, they already have this model glider on tap, which allows them to develop the Bolt faster than the competition.

As a personal preference, I like the mainstream look of the Bolt much better than the quirky look of the LEAF or i3.

As others have indicated, this may simply come down to: 1. Looks – The Bolt appears to fall into the i3 design camp only it is slightly more conventional (which could be viewed as “boring” or a “Sonic EV”). Conversely, the Model III, may follow the lead of its big brother and follow the luxury sports sedan (aka 3 series) path. Between “looks like a Sonic” and “Looks like a 3 series”, I’ll take the latter. 2. DC Fast charging – Again, 200 miles is nice, but since it basically implies “can be taken out-of-town” that is only really relevant with a network of closely spaced fast chargers. Here’s an idea GM, let’s pretend you have a few 1000 dealers scattered across the U.S. and even in RURAL/Small Town areas, and they all have giant parking lots attached to them and electricity…maybe you could put incent your dealers and put them there! Of course even CCS isn’t “super” charging. 3. Price – Even though both cars may hit the market similarly priced, I have a feeling GM will come in cheaper, AND on top of that the various option packages will likely also be cheaper. Compare the BMW i3 to… Read more »
Putting charging stations at dealerships is a really bad plan. Intelligently distributed chargers, like the Supercharger network… good idea. Hanging around chain smoking car salesman, blocked charging stalls with dealership cars, locked up equipment, not 24 hour operation, nothing around to do… just a bad, bad plan. >>> if GM would have stuffed a small range extender in the back (i3 style) it would be a killer combo. <<< I know this makes sense to Volt and i3 hybrid owners, but I have to admit that I have never hoped for gasoline in my electric car. What I hope for is more public charging at the fastest charge speed and (except for a Tesla) more autonomous range. Virtually all cars are "in town" cars, until such as time as a journey takes that car "out of town". The EVs built by GM (and Ford someday), plus German manufacturers have a HUGE disadvantage over Tesla with a low performing CCS charging standard in addition to low quantity and no macro scale planning. Frankly, it's a joke compared to the Tesla Supercharger network. All the modern EVs are 350-400 volt battery cars, so the charger speed is determined by amps and the… Read more »
I hope this car, Gen2 Leaf, and Model III all keep come close to their schedules, pricing, and range goals. However, I’m thinking more and more that I’m not going to buy or lease any of them when they first come out. What I am excited about their affect on the used market for the plug-ins already on the road. Having spent time in Leafs, Model S and Volt I’ve realized that I like all 3 cars in their own way, but none of them could work as our only car. The Volt has no range issues, but sometimes something a lot bigger is nice. The Model S range is still shorter than I’d like for longer trips, and though a lot larger than the Volt it is still not as big or nearly as practical as our Sienna. Plus, it is way more than I’d like to pay for a car. The Leaf is priced nice but like the others still requires a second car. The next gen Volt, as well as the Bolt, Gen2 Leaf, and Model III won’t serve all purposes either. I’d still have a second car. With dropping used prices I think it is making… Read more »

Nate, I couldn’t agree more. We also have a new Acura TSX wagon and a car of this size (and cargo capacity) would be excellent as a mid to high range EV or as an EREV with a Voltec-like powertrain. The Volt is too small for us (think infants & all their crap) for road trips and even Tesla range would require us to change our habits (like driving from Albuquerque, NM to Sacramento, CA in 1-day without multiple charge stops. A Voltec TSX Wagon or Highlander-sized SUV would be fantastic!

Is GM working a volt truck.

Just yesterday I saw for the first time a VIA-van with Potomac Edison Branding in Winchester VA. I’d love to see more of these, since they are among the vehicles with lowest mpg’s and mot yearly mileage.

All the negatives toward the potentially first affordable 200 miles BEV before it is even launched…

So much polarized views inside EV community, no wonder EV grows so slow, the EV supporters can’t even get along…

Quite right. Even imagining the WORST design choices

3.3 kw charger only, no sound insulation, small tires

If the price is right I’m buying one. (I think).

Bill: Agreed, but I would like the 6.6 OBC (or higher). CCS vs. Chademo, only matters if GM fails to develop sites that offer the CCS standard. For probably 95% of the people, 200 mile range means having a large % of battery in reserve at the end of the day, every day. But it does allow you the freedom to take the car 100+ miles away and be able to return. I am going with GM actually hitting their delivery date, setting a reasonable price($37,500 before rebates)and giving us 200 mile real world range. Yes, the car’s range will drop a lot in the winter—my Volt gets 55 miles right now in Philly summer and suburban driving. Is under 30 on the coldest winter days. But extrapolating those same figures for a Bolt and the 200 mile winter range will probably be 125 with full heater use(which is fine with me)and 225-250 for me in the summer months. Fair enough. Just having the 200 mile average range means not having ability to workplace charge is not an issue any more(don’t have it now). Lots of negatives get addressed if the 200 mile range is reached. Let’s hope GM, Nissan… Read more »

I like the Bolt. Nissan says it’s upcoming long range 2017 Leaf will have much faster charging (EV Obsession). Probably means a charger greater than 6.6 kw. That means for the Chevy Bolt to compete, they will probably have a greater than 6.6 kw charger as well. Good news all around. One thing on the Chevy Bolt camouflage mule car pictured. It looks like it has a solid metal roof. Probably for crashworthiness reasons, understandably. I do like the glass roof they had on the Bolt at the auto show. Hope the glass roof is offered on the production Bolt, but I won’t count on it.

It would also be nice if the Bolt had a powerful electric motor like the Spark. Instant electric car torque, plus 0-60 time of 7 seconds, would be really nice.

If GM wants me (and other 6-foot+ people) to buy a Bolt, they really need to make more legroom that they offer in the Volt. A LOT more.

The Volt concept (Electric Primary, Gas secondary) is the preferred solution to a Prius (Gas primary, Electric secondary). But I got a Prius because I can FIT in it. Can’t fit in a Volt, never mind no legroom for my tall kids in the back. -_-

I am in the market for a next gen Volt or Tesla 3. Saw an S getting on the freewa the other day aheah of me, then WAY ahead of me. I think I now know why those that can pay 100+K do so for an S. It’s like owning your own supercoaster at an amusement park. If the 3 is even close to the S it will still be quite a carnival ride.

As an aside, can you see Tesla with a Police pursuit version of the S with no limiter? Would make all but a 200K supercar look pedestrian.