CharIN Starts Development Of Fast Charging Beyond 1 MW

FEB 27 2019 BY MARK KANE 24

1 MW is equal to 1,000 kW or a few hundred households

CharIN, which so far was focused on the Combined Charging System, released an announcement about a new standard under development for high power charging of trucks, buses, aircraft or other large BEVs beyond 1 MW.

The new solution – High Power Charging for Commercial Vehicles (HPCCV) – is envisioned as conductive (plug type) with voltage of up to 1,500 V and current of up to 3,000 A! It seems that the 350 kW at 800 V is not even close to what the heavy duty charges will provide. On the other hand, raising the bar was expected, especially as some manufacturers announced higher power charging (i.e. Tesla Megachargers).

See very interesting requirement list here.

Positive information is that backward compatibility with CCS charging system is considered. Work is just starting and interested parties are invited to join the HPCCV working group.

From the press release:

“A CharIN e.V. working group defined requirements for a commercial vehicle high power charging standard within the holistic system approach of the Combined Charging System. Contributions to solve the set of requirements are welcome.

The CharIN e.V. formed the working group High Power Charging for Commercial Vehicle Charging (HPCCV) with the purpose to define a new commercial vehicle high power charging solution to maximize customer flexibility when using fully electric commercial vehicles.

The scope of the technical recommendation is to be limited to the connector and any related requirements for the EVSE, the vehicle, communication, and related hardware.

The standard focuses on Class 6, 7, & 8 commercial vehicles, but could easily be used for buses, aircraft or other large battery electric vehicles (BEVs).

Separate subgroups were formed to explore the problem from their unique point of view: Customers, Truck & Bus OEMs, Utilities, Site selection and permitting firms, EVSE manufacturers, Service Providers, Hardware manufacturers and Cyber Security experts. From those inputs, a single requirements document was created, which was further refined by the working group.

The CharIN e.V. is now calling for contributions to solve this set of requirements. All submissions will be reviewed and graded based on how well they solve the requirements and on their technological readiness.

The deadline for submissions is March 22nd, 2019.

The working group HPCCV will review the submissions and request further clarification or presentation of the concept to the working group HPCCV between March 25th and May 15th, 2019.”

Source: CharIN, High Power Charging for Commercial Vehicles (HPCCV)

Categories: Bus, Charging, Trucks

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24 Comments on "CharIN Starts Development Of Fast Charging Beyond 1 MW"

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It’s good to see the charging standard for large vehicles is being hashed out before there are multiple proprietary charging protocols developed.

Well, there is already the Tesla Megacharger protocol, which is rated for at least 1MW. And in the US at least, it’s likely that the Tesla system will be the dominant protocol for a long while(Freightliner AFAIK is using CCS, but it’s unlikely they will ever sell large numbers in the US)

Tesla hasn’t even published how the Supercharger protocol works. Charging manufacturers like ABB or Tritium would have loved to make them for independent charging networks.

3000A! Whoa! I wonder if metal migration is going to be an issue.

High voltage and high power electrical engineering has been done since the 1880s, if not before. It’s not like there are problems there which have not been solved.

AC yes, not so much in DC where electrons are pushed only in one direction.

Also, I think there aren’t many (if at all) existing applications where circuits which such voltages/currents are designed to be (un)plugged regularly — this presumably brings new challenges.

That’s probably as fast as we’ll ever need to go. That would charge a semi with a 1000 mile range to 80% in 20 minutes, or 2400 MPH. Diesel pumps top out at around 5400 MPH, and you can’t just walk away from them.

Think ferries, forestry & construction equipment, planes.

Hopefully it is enough…

5400 MPH needs to put into perspective.

First. There is Federal law that limits number of driving hours per day. I am told in the Agricultural industry, the drivers can exceed the Federal limit.

Second. There is a hard limit on size of fuel tanks typically 125 to 300 gallons per tank. So 125×2 is 250 gallons at say 6 mpg, then that’s roughly 1,500 miles. A solo drive is NOT going to hit 1,500 miles in one day (teams are different).

Source: https://www.reference.com/vehicles/many-gallons-semi-truck-hold-bbf037d6669bd7b0

It’s nice to have a 5,400 MPH but that is overkill.

Maximum legal driving distance for a single truck driver in the USA is, in practice, about 800 miles, with anything over 700 miles being rather rare. In Europe distances are shorter, because they don’t allow the 14-hour shifts that U.S. drivers can take.

That’s not to say that some independent U.S. truckers don’t exceed those limits, by driving more than 14 hours in a day. But it’s not legal to do so.

Jason: “5400 MPH needs to put into perspective.

First. There is Federal law that limits number of driving hours per day……”
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It’s not the number of miles that’s important, rather the speed they can be input.

So if (say) the number of miles driven in a day was limited to 480, a speed of “refuelling” of 2,400mph means a days worth of charge can be taken on in 12 minutes. A refuelling speed of 5,400mph would mean a filling time of just over 5 minutes. Yes, in this example, 6-7 minutes longer than a diesel refuel, but is that 6-7 minutes that important? (Especially if it could be plugged in and left for the 12 minutes – you can’t really do that with diesel.)

How feasible such speed of charging may be in practice due to battery heating and such issues is another thing, but such is a matter of technology – not science. Charge times are already down to speeds that would have seemed amazing a couple of decades ago – I’m inclined to think such will happen, the question is when?

No diesel pumps fill up any Semi at 5400 MPH, not even close.

Some semi trucks use twin tanks, and sometimes they use two hoses to fill them at the same time. I dunno just what the fill rate is, or if that would exceed the 5400 MPH rate, which sounds pretty high to me!

I am not even discussing the use case of single pump on Semi. Even two are not enough since the fuel needed is a lot.

Let’s see, diesel truck pumps run about 50 gallons per minute (larger nozzle than for cars) and often two pumps at once (one on each side of the big rig). So 100 gallons per minute (600 gallons in two tanks is somewhat common) would be 6000 gallons per hour (gph), yes? (60 minutes multiplied by 100 gallons per minute.) Now, most modern trucks get 7 miles per gallon (or more) so 7 mpg multiplied by 6000 gph is 42,000 mph? Or 700 miles of range per minute at dual-diesel pumps? Right, he was way low when he said 5400 mph. Seems crazy, doesn’t it? I dunno maybe I calculated wrong somewhere, can anyone find a mistake?

Not at all. We’ll see BEV automobiles charging at that rate, within the lifetime of most of us commenting here. Probably within less than a decade.

Heavy BEV trucks are going to need multi-MW charging power in order to get down to an approx. 10 minute charge time or less. I think that’s inevitable; competition will drive faster and faster charging, as it already is with passenger car BEVs.

Believing 10 minute (or even faster) charges for both passenger cars and heavy trucks won’t become the norm… that’s a failure of imagination.

There’s diminishing returns at some point. A 10 minute stop every 400 miles (6ish hours) isn’t slowing anyone down unless the driver’s seat is also a toilet.

The day will come when ordinary everyday BEV passenger cars will charge at the rate of 1 MW, or even faster. According to my back-of-the-envelope calculations, we will need the average car to charge at 1.2-1.4 MW in order to get to the goal of 300 miles of range added in 10 minutes. And I don’t see anything that’s going to stop competition from driving down charging times up to that speed… or perhaps even faster. There will come a point of diminishing returns; I don’t ever expect to see 2-minute charge times, and perhaps not even 5-minute charge times for the average superfast charging station.

But a 10 minute charge certainly seems to be within reason, a few years from now. Yeah, that will require battery cells that charge faster (without overheating) than what’s being used today, but battery cell makers are already working on that.

Pushmi-Pullyu – I agree with what you say……. with the exception of timescale! 🙂 My guess for the figures you say are at least a decade away and probably more. Such will come, the question is when. And when they do, a BEV won’t really have any disadvantages to a petrol/diesel vehicle – and several advantages.

A wish-list has been put out for bids, we will see if anyone can design such a thing. I personally am skeptical but I wish them all the luck in the world. Personally I think this will take a rather sophisticated engineering system design and not just an attempt to upstage Tesla at all costs, but we will see. I am not convinced that enough of the market needs such a thing yet to make it economically viable. I would think it best to focus first on cost-effective full EV trucks aimed at the average range of 280 miles per day that can charge overnight when rates are low. Building lots of boring trucks that get the job done is more important for now than the EV equivalent of a super-sonic Concorde jet that never makes any money. But it takes all kinds, I hope I am wrong. Maybe we can have pink fluffy unicorns dancing on rainbows too, who knows.

jamcl3 – quote: “I am not convinced that enough of the market needs such a thing yet to make it economically viable”
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I believe what they are doing is setting a standard for a connector which is designed to have an element of future proofing. So it (the connector) is capable of handling higher powers without a complete redesign.

Most of what you say (re slower overnight charging) is probably currently true – but it still makes huge sense to have a common and standard connector that is capable of handling much higher charge rates in the future, even if that particular truck never could!

I certainly hope they make the new standard downward-compatible with CCS. The HPCCV network will obviously be less dense than CCS networks, so requiring that an HPCCV truck be able to charge (even at low rates usable just for limping along, not hauling full loads at speed) from CCS will be helpful in emergencies. There will also be mobile battery-based CCS chargers, while I doubt there will be mobile HPCCV chargers for a very long time.

4.5MW – I guess CCS will win the award for most power this week !!!

1MW – Tesla Megacharger

900kW – New Energy combined CHAdeMO / G/BT consortium

350-400kW – CHAdeMO & CCS

200-250kW – Tesla Supercharger v3

120kW – current Tesla Supercharger

25-100kW – typical GB/T / CHAdeMO / SAE-CCS-Combo1 / CCS-Combo2

When will the cars and trucks be able to use all this power?