The Charge of the Battery Brigade – Autoline (Video)

NOV 25 2014 BY MARK KANE 12

How about ultimate battery pack for electric cars?

The ultimate battery pack for electric cars?

John McElroy recently gathered three experts for for “Autoline This Week 1833” discussion on battery technology – Ann Marie Sastry from Sakti3, LG Chem’s Prabhakar Patil and Brett Smith from the Center for Automotive Research.

Among the topics were battery outlook, costs and, of course, the Tesla Gigafactory.

According to the experts, lithium-ion batteries are here to stay at least another 10 years and prices will fall down. LG Chem stated that by 2017, 200-mile range EVs should be realistic at a price point of $35,000. Sakti3 on the other hand hopes for $100 per kWh on the cell level and expects sales for consumer electronics in two years (later for electric cars).

Prabhakar said that the cost of cells are about 60-70% of the battery pack in electric cars and 50% in hybrids.

“As the auto industry continues to explore new and different ways to power cars and trucks, engineers keep coming back to the good old battery. With the days of GM’s EV1 seeming like ancient history even though it’s only about 20 years old or so, today’s batteries are light years better. And on today’s panel John McElroy is joined by three experts: Ann Marie Sastry from Sakti3, LG’s Prabhakar Patil and Brett Smith from the Center for Automotive Research.”

Categories: Battery Tech, General

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12 Comments on "The Charge of the Battery Brigade – Autoline (Video)"

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Solid state lithium battery sounds like a winner.


Solid State Battery: “Where we’re now, we’re prototyping small cells at our Ann Arbor facility, and I believe we’ve set a record, on Scalable Equipment, of 1100 watt hour per liter”

Solid state seems to be coming sooner then 10 years.

Volt Battery: – Cost drop by a factor of 2. – Energy density up by 40-50% – Lead acid battery tech: stagnant for decades. – 125 dollars per kwh same cost structure as an ICE engine. – Goal of getting 200 mile range EV under $35000 is 2017. – We’re adding 3.5-4 Billion Tons of CO2 a year. – 20 lbs of CO2 for every gallon of gas, we’ll be paying for that extra CO2 in health costs and weather ( related disasters and drought lost farming and ranching resources. ) SAKTI3 – goal to get to 100 dollars per kwh. – happening in 2 YEARS in Consumer Electronics and “not long after that for vehicles” – at the Cell Level – Solid state batteries are easier to build in different form factors. – Ratio of BOM / COGS Bill of Materials / Cost of Goods Sold is consequential. – Todays batteries 80% – 90% BOM / COGS. – Which gets to the Gigafactory, drive the BOM costs down. – TESLA will have competition for the 200 mile range car under $35000. – Energy Storage market to be bigger then the automotive market. – Tesla building 18650 format, solid… Read more »

This was a really interesting video to watch. I treat solid-state batteries with a bit of skepticism (at least Li-S batteries have been shipped in very small production amounts), but it something I’m looking forward to seeing the next few years. One of the things that Ann-Marie mentioned is that the percentage battery costs of the pack goes up as you reduce the amount of safety circuitry needed for batteries, reducing overall costs. So safer batteries (Li-S, SSBs) have the effect of reducing pack cost at the same $/kWh level.

That’s what Tesla did – since they had control systems and that isolation material and active liquid cooling, their cells did not have the safety features of the standard cells. Simplified things a bit.

Actually, it is the opposite of what Tesla did. Tesla wasn’t interesting in waiting for some day that 250+Wh/kg cell was available that was less volatile. They went ahead and chose a NCA cell with a flammable electrolyte and engineered a pack that would handle the thermal runaway and safety issues. They also handled the overall thermal management to increase lifespan. Other manufacturers have been unwilling to do this and those that have shipped lithium-ion based batteries have opted for safer chemistries that have substantially less specific energy. In the end, Tesla was able to ship a car with terrific power, range, cost, and weight characteristics in 2012. I know that the cost is overall high, but the pack cost at a per kWh level is extremely low, probably 1/3 the cost of the Volt’s or Leaf’s packs with almost 100% better specific energy at the cell level. The issue going forward is whether or not the “safer” chemistries can hit the same characteristics. Tesla can merely remove the mechanisms that they don’t need if such chemistries end up panning out, while others will have to learn to build the packs with more volatile chemistries of the “safer” chemistries can’t… Read more »

Interesting video.

Great discussion on EV Batteries. If she can get her target of $100 per kWh in two years using Solid State technology, that will change the automotive world.

Given the testing required for an automotive application, best case for a solid state battery is 2020 model year sales. That’s only if they have prototypes driving around in 2017.

As she says, they’re doing CE applications first, then EVs. Even then, other battery makers will have to somehow match the new lower cost threshold, to remain competitive.

That’s only good news for every device relying on rechargeable batteries– from then, until EV makers adopt them. Which may well be sooner than your 2020 timeframe.

She said solid state batteries in Consumer Electronics in 2 years: 2016.
– Solid state in cars “not long after that”, that’s 2017-2018.

Chevy volt 6.000 miles, 6 gallons gas….that is electrifying!!!!