CHAdeMO Releases 200 kW Specs. 400 kW Specs In Progress!

MAR 2 2018 BY MARK KANE 61

The CHAdeMO Association boasted another solid year of growth for CHAdeMO in 2017  and came forward with a bold new announcement of 400 kW

CHAdeMO Infographics – 2017 Summary

First of all, the number of DC fast chargers with CHAdeMO plugs increased worldwide by 30% year-over-year to 17,700.

In Europe, the growth was even higher – 50% to 6,060.

Since 2010, around 775,000 plug-in cars with CHAdeMO inlet were sold (including 330,000 in Europe).

“CHAdeMO Association closed yet another very successful year in 2017. Not only have all fronts of the business of its members and collaborators grown, but it has also successfully consolidated its position as the international market leader.

New chargers sprang up everywhere in the world, and the number of CHAdeMO chargers grew by 30% last year, reaching a global total number of 17 700. An even bigger rate of increase was seen in the European region, where a 50% growth took place in 2017, ending the year with 6 060 charge points across Europe. Countries like Norway, Germany, United Kingdom, France and Ukraine went above and beyond with the expansion of their charging infrastructure.

In parallel with chargers, EV sales has boomed last year thanks to a growing awareness of the public on the utility and eco friendliness of electric cars and the increased market offers from the carmakers. As of 2017, 775 000 CHAdeMO compatible cars are on the roads, out of which 330 000 found a home in Europe.

The growth of EV industry pushed for geographical expansion of CHAdeMO. In 2017, ten new countries successfully installed their first CHAdeMO charger: Andorra, Barbados, Bulgaria, Georgia, India, Jordan, Kazakhstan, Philippines, Serbia, and Uganda.”

The CHAdeMO Association says that it is working on increasing power of the standard.

The CHAdeMO 1.2 version of the protocol was already published and enables charging at up to 200 kW (400 A).

The next step is the CHAdeMO 2.0 version of the protocol  that is promised to be released in early 2018. 2.0 increases the voltage to 1,000 V, which translates to up to 400 kW of power. That’s more than the 350 kW for CCS Combo, so both should remain competitive.

“Another great achievement was the publication of the 200kW (max 400A) specifications, followed by a successful connection test and demonstration. By implementing this protocol members will be able to develop high-power EV chargers that enable vehicles to be charged at a higher rate, catering to the increasing EV battery size. Furthermore, anticipating the diversifying charging needs of larger variety of EVs, CHAdeMO is working on a 400kW (max 1kV) protocol, which will be released early 2018.”

See Also – Nissan To Expand CHAdeMO Quick Charging Network In Europe By 20%

Makoto YOSHIDA, Secretary General of CHAdeMO Association, commented:

“Our plug being identical in any geographical region, with the emergence of second-hand EV market developing in different parts of the world on top of the new CHAdeMO EVs coming to the market, we expect the demand for CHAdeMO to stay strong. In view of the warning from IEC/ISO, we have reviewed the safety measures of CHAdeMO and feel confident that our technology provides safety, interoperability and is future-proof.”

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61 Comments on "CHAdeMO Releases 200 kW Specs. 400 kW Specs In Progress!"

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How do they come up with 200kW?

In the US they are DC fast chargers are 440 volt.

440 volt x 400 amp would equal 176 kW.

By rounding up? 😉

It is probably 500V but whether carmakers use that is debatable.

For most industrial uses, the power company gives you a direct feed, and you supply your own transformer. Typical direct line voltages are 13kv to 25kv. Then you do whatever you want on your side. 440v/3 phase is just a common internal distribution standard, and a lot of industrial equipment uses it.

Those are the output specs they are referring to. IIRC, the original spec was for 50-500V output. The output voltage is of course determined by the EV battery. There are three limits on an electrical device: Voltage, current, and power. For example, the Aerovironment DCFC stations I use frequently are limited to about 125A output. Because of the Voltage at the start of charge on my Soul EV I don’t see full power output. As the voltage of the pack goes up the power goes up until the point that the vattery hits its maximum voltage. I never see the 50kW output of the station because of the current limit.

The 200 kW spec is 500V, and the 400 kW spec is 1 kV.

In fact, the existing 50 kW spec is also 500V – and 100A rather than the enormous 400A they are planning for here. Which means in practice, you can’t strictly get much more than 40 kW with actual EVs, none of which can use a charging voltage as high as 500V.

The Kia Soul EV, even the first generation with 27 kWh usable, can charge at 80 kW (if the charger delivers that, which is only at a few locations the case).

The current ChadeMo spec is 100kW, 200 Amp and 500 volt. Most ChadeMo chargers in the field are, for cost reasons, only 125 amp and 400 volt. That gives a maximum output of 50 kW. And only if the battery can accept that.

400 kW, damm thats a power I can’t imagine next years going into a battery.

Would be just 2C for a 200 kWh Tesla Roadster 2.0 battery. The 60 kWh S and X do 2C when charging at 120 kW (though 90 kw seems to be their average).

True, but NCM611 has a lower threshold for thermal runaway and therefore can’t charge as fast. That’s probably the reason the new Hyundai KONA charges relatively slowly (on a 150 kW charger it’s 54 minutes to eighty percent whether it’s the 40 or 64 kWh version).

Solid state batteries will however be a different story, hopefully so different that even smaller packs can use the full 350 kW (1 kV is not likely to actually be used in my opinion; if anyone does, the car would have to come ONLY with CHAdeMO and not CCS, since CCS only goes to 800V).

Now we are getting there. 400 amp is going to be interesting. If this for real then CHAdeMo is my New Bro!

800 amp? CHAdeMO 2.0 ⚡️

Be The Lightening!

So there is going to be a 400kW LEAF? All this work for supporting only 1 model car on the market.

I wonder how long the Leaf will use Chademo tough. The smart move would be to switch as soon as possible, at least for European Leafs.

And for US and Korean Leafs….CCS is the standard for all EU, Korean, and US manufacturers, along with Honda. CCS also only requires one combo port, reducing cost and the charge port size. A lot of legacy Chademo chargers, but new US chargers being installed are either dual-standard or CCS only.

Bah, the “combo port” is two ports. Manufacturers even make two doors, because the stupid design otherwise leaves the FCDC port uncovered whenever you slow-charge. Not a problem in your garage, really stupid when parked outside the office…

CHAdeMO supports V2G. CCS doesn’t.

Both are clunky and awful, and it would have been better to use higher voltages and smaller currents, along with more but smaller cells in battery packs. (That would allow the same capacity with more cells in series, and hence higher charging voltage.)

Alas, CCS has by far the best manufacturer support, so I believe it’ll win and CHAdeMO will at most be in Japan.

The 100A plugs and cables were already awful. I wonder if the 400A cables won’t be worse??

No one cares about V2G

I care about V2G.

There are some serious safety issues with CCS, as already alerted by IEC/ISO. Better stay with CHAdeMO.

Link please? That’s the first I’ve heard of these safety concerns and I’d like to read more.

If nothing else, it provides a quasi-proprietary charging network for the Leaf in Europe.

There’s nothing proprietary about it at all.

Nonsense. In France, for instance, there are much more CHAdeMO chargers then CCS. Also nearly all CCS chargers are rather expensive, while many CHAdeMO chargers are free.

With my Kia Soul EV (not only the Leaf has CHAdeMO) I can crisscross France without problem, even staying off the motorways. With CCS many trajectories are still impossible and the ones you can take are expensive.

I’m a travel photographer, using my Soul EV for my work. So I’m not the typical home > office EV driver, I go everywhere, mostly in France, but also outside. I couldn’t do it with CCS in France, not with my 200 km range. But with CHAdeMO that is possible. Tesla is the best solution, of course, but it was out of my budget.

All the new chargers being built with state government tax money are going dual standard here in Washington state.

Chademo has a slight advantage here simply because it was one of the first high voltage charging systems out-of-the gate.

Unfortunately for you, it seems like Hyundai/Kia is moving to CCS.

In the USA the Leaf, Soul EV, Outlander PHEV, and aftermarket JdeMO (RAV4 EV & Tesla Roadster) vehicles use CHAdeMO. It’s not just the Leaf.

The Bollinger B1 will also have CHAdeMO… plus all Teslas (via adapter).

How many adapters Tesla had sold?

Kia and Hyundai are dropping CHAdeMO and moving to CCS.

I’m hoping this doesn’t breathe new life into the dying CHAdeMO. I was hoping in a few years it would just be CCS, and (unfortunatly) Tesla proprietary crap.

I really do not understand why people want ccs. The Only reason for this I can think of is that they have never used it. CCS 1.0 protocol is broken, and there is no car and charger pair in existence that would finish 100 charging sessions in a row without disconnects. In most cars the charging sucks so bad it will make you go mad.

Do you really think it won’t improve?

Tesla is going to CSS! Not yet official but in background they prepare it for EU Model 3. Problem for Tesla is 800V CSS2.2 standard. They use high current 400V. In 2 years all Tesla production vehicles will come only with CSS port. All superchargers will be equipped in first stage with additional CSS cable. After the upgrade of supercharger standard to 800V they will use both tesla/type2 CSS.

Which is sad, because although CCS officially is the European standard, in many European countries there are much more CHAdeMO chargers. You are much better off with a CHAdeMO car, because you have much less range worries, because there are so much more chargers for you.

It is true that there are still more CHAdeMO chargers than CCS in EU. But today only idiot will build new public charging station without CCS support. Because there is simply no reason for doing that and I think that there is even some regulation that new public charging station in EU must have CCS.

Looks like Chademo wants to remain relevant, but I’d like to see how many 400 kw cars are ever made, or, more to the point – how many people will PAY the cost of all this. It ain’t gonna be bargain basement pricing.

Trucking or Busing is a different subject – so for those applications charging of this size makes sense since the costs can be distributed amoungst many people or many customers.

“but I’d like to see how many 400 kw cars are ever made”

Huh? That logic escapes me completely. Of course charging speed is one of the most important things. The 2nd question people always ask (we know the 1st one already) is: “How fast does it charge?”. And with many city dwellers not having reliable access to standard charging, they are stuck with the gas model of “drive ’til the light comes on, then find some juice”.

…. pressed the button too soon…..

And for that usage model 400 kW is the absolute minimum, yielding about 15 min of charging time for a 100 kWh battery.

Now that the short range issue is as good as solved with the introduction of a plethora of 300+ km cars, attention will shift to faster charging and technology-wise there is no fundamental obstacle. It just requires the will to do it.

Your story is a bit strange. You seem to live in Holland, where there are many slow chargers in living quarters. I am often in Holland, stay with friends in apartments and have no problems to charge overnight. Why would I need to charge 100 kW in 15 minutes when my batterie is full every morning?

The answer was in my initial comment, – who will want the feature bad enough to pay ALL the costs related to it?

This won’t save Chademo.

See “black mirror”… “do you have an XXX adapter?… please I need an adapter!”.

Chademo is not going anywhere in Japan in foreseeable future. There is no CCS there just like it was no CCS in the world when Japan started its public charging infrastructure. CCS appeared later, some say as an attempt by competing EV non-makers (at that time) to fragment & delay infrastructure and prevent Nissan from taking market share.

Imported BMWs in Japan have Chademo plug, and only few hundred of Teslas have been sold.

Anyway, extra plugs on DC charger is not where the cost is. It is just small part of the charging station cost and it is dumb to fight over it now as long as we are talking about open standards.

DCFC economics are a real challenge. It’s a struggle to build a business case for installing these things, so reducing cost and complexity is key. Those cables and connectors ain’t cheap, and will get more expensive with these new power levels that require liquid cooling. Saving a few thousand dollars per unit goes a long way when we’re talking about stations with 4+ units each.

I really wish Nissan had swallowed their pride and adopted CCS on the new leaf, at least in parallel to Chademo. Would have made infrastructure deployment a bit easier, and we need all the help we can get! Maybe for the 60kWh Leaf, but I’m not optimistic.

Hypothetical saving of few thousands dollars per unit may happen some 10 years later only when existing Leafs will be retired. Not sooner. And not in Nissan home market anyway.

Look at Grant Funding Opportunities for DC Fast Chargers for California, GFO-15-603 or GFO-15-601

Check Notices of Proposed Award and Application Manuals for what the money is paid for. It is hundreds of thousands of dollars per site of single DC charger.

Talks about premature/forced retirement of charging standard that is still in majority by cars on the road just steers public opinion in completely wrong direction. You need more cooperation between players, not more suspicion or attempts to undermine competitors through infrastructure, or induce fear & doubt to potential buyers of choosing “wrong” standard car.

Thanks for highlighting the fact that the economics of DCFC deployment are so challenging that they’re still heavily dependent on generous government and/or utility grants. I’m well aware of what CEC offers, up to 200k for the more remote sites, at a minimum requiring 1 dual-standard DCFC and future proofing for at least 1 extra 100kW+ DCFC. I still stand by my statement that the extra costs and complexity required to support two standards is not trivial. If Nissan had included CCS on the new Leaf, the 100k existing Leafs on the road in the US could make do with the Chademo infrastructure that’s already deployed, and future deployments could focus on maximizing the bang for the buck for future EVs for which long-distance travel is actually practical.

As I often point to, nobody complained about gas stations selling gasoline and diesel.

The only reason people are even bothered about plugs is because BEVs are low volume. If BEVs are truly successful there’ll be dense coverage, and the concern will be capacity and reliability rather than whether you can find a charger with a Tesla/CHAdeMO/CCS/GBT/WTFK plug.

Article sez:
“That’s more than the 350 kW for CCS Combo, so both should remain competitive.”

The SAE J1772 specification was recently updated in October, 2017 to specify a new upper power level of 400 kW (1000V at 400A continuous). The article statement about a 350 kW limit is obsolete.

Actually, both ABB and ChargePoint claim configuration specifications that will support 500 kW on a CCS connector on their newest chargers.

Do not forget ChadeMo is already capable of V2H/V2G (Vehicle to Home/Grid). That is a really important building block for smart charging and grid balancing.

Exactly, for me objectively CHAdeMO is better than CCS due to V2G, V2H and being fully universal. Nissan should stay with CHAdeMO and continue to support it as they are still doing to at least force CCS to improve because the last as a standard and protocol it’s a mess in comparison.

The wise thing for a carmaker to do is to choose the standard that has the most chargers in that region. In many parts of Europe that is CHAdeMO. So Nissan is wise to offer CHAdeMO in Europe. It’s simple logic.

When I bought my car, in France where CHAdeMO is king, I hesitated between a Kia Soul EV (200 km range and CHAdeMO) and a Hyundai Ioniq Electric (250 km range, CCS). They don’t differ very much in price at that time, so that didn’t influence my choice. I am a travel photographer, so I really do travel and therefore range is important. Yet I chose the Soul, because I have less worries with 200 km range and CHAdeMO then with 250 km range and CCS.

The wise move is of course to choose the only official standard.

You are basing your views on how it has been, not how it will be.

Chademo is on its way out from Europe and the sooner all manufacturers change to CCS the better for everyone. Then all focus can be put on that one.

Instead the focus is somewhat split, even having people like you defending a standard that has already lost and is dying.

I bet you still prefer HD-DVD and Betamax.

CCS is in Europe only the official standard for level 2 charging. That is why Tesla offers in Europe a CCS-port instead of its own. For fastcharging a car manufacturer can choose any standard it prefers. ChadeMo is here to stay because Nissan has invested and is investing heavily in ChadeMO chargers. It is their mass-market proposition. They will not abandon their current owners and ChadeMO has an important role in their V2G strategy. Every ChadeMo car in the field already supports V2G, CCS does not.

And as stated by a-kindred-soul, ChadeMO in Europe is reliable and wide spread.

Why do you keep flogging a dead horse?

EV charging is not about chargers or connectors or protocols, it is about batteries. ChadeMo has all to fullfill the charging demands (100 kW) for the mass market, if only (small) batteries can accept that power.

For me it’s not a dead horse anytime soon, I’ll buy a 60kWh New Nissan Leaf as soon as it’s available this fall and I will support CHAdeMO, Nissan is installing a lot of additional CHAdeMO stations this year in Europe, and still it’s the bigger network and objectively a better standard than CCS.

Good choice, the new LEAF would be even better for you.

CHAdeMO will continue to be the mainstream DC
charging standard in Europe for many more years.

With no models supporting it…good luck.

No models? What about the New Leaf and it’s SUV version that will arrive next year or so? An electrified Nissan Qashqai for example with CHAdeMO will impulse the standard a lot.

2 models from Nissan, 2 from Mitsubishi, 2 from Tesla, 1 from Kia, 2 from Peugeot, 2 from Citroen, 1 from Mahindra, 1 from BD Automotive, plus more. That’s at least 13 models.

So please stop lying.

Oh come on. You know CCS will win. Why try to stop the inevitable