Car & Driver’s German Correspondent Discusses How Tesla “Set Off A Wave That Will Eventually Crush Them”

JUN 12 2015 BY ERIC LOVEDAY 81

Philipp Schroeder Tesla Motors sales manager for Germany and Austria

Philipp Schroeder Tesla Motors sales manager for Germany and Austria

Tesla Plans To Have Almost 50 Superchargers In Germany By The End Of 2015, Covering 100% Of The Population

Tesla Plans To Have Almost 50 Superchargers In Germany By The End Of 2015, Covering 100% Of The Population

Car & Driver’s German correspondent has a weekly article in which he examines the German automotive market.

In late April, the correspondent’s article focused on Tesla Motors.

We won’t discuss all the details found in the article, but rather we’ll post this one statement from an unnamed supplier that the correspondent spoke with:

“Tesla has set off a wave that will eventually crush them.”

We think that lone statement will entice you to read Car & Driver’s article in its entirety.  You’ll find the article, titled “Cracks Form in the Tesla Story as Germans Assemble Luxury EV Assault,” by clicking here.

Oh, there’s this statement from a supplier executive too:

“If a carmaker remains close to Tesla, the ‘stupid press’ will write that they figured out from them how to build an electric. And that’s the last thing they want to be accused of.”

Source: Car & Driver

Categories: Tesla

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81 Comments on "Car & Driver’s German Correspondent Discusses How Tesla “Set Off A Wave That Will Eventually Crush Them”"

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Mike777

Thanks for the laugh.
I loved this quote:

“They don’t even know what they don’t know,” an executive jokes.

– If you understand “Projection” this is ironically funny.

Tesla, Sales increase of 50% over the last three years, the best tested cars by CU, and one of the safest with 5 starts in all categories.

tftf

“Tesla, Sales increase of 50% over the last three years”

That means next to nothing since they started from zero.

Abbsolute numbers are still tiny – especially if you count out Norway and its heavy subsidies for EVs.

Ex-Norway, Tesla sales in Europe have been dismal and well behind their own earlier projections (especially in Germany).

Kandi1

Why do you want to exclude Norway?
I expect every country to increase their subsidies for EV and/or raise tax on ICE cars or gas.

Speculawyer

Germany still has no EV incentives and their consumers remain quite loyal nationalists to their own domestic brands.

Just wait a few seconds before the Tesla fanboyZ flood in and deny the reality of poor sales in Europe.

Speculawyer

The sales are so poor that every German automaker has quickly reversed course and is trying to put out an electric car ASAP.

Robb Stark

Funnier still is watching the Wehrmacht’s Anglo Division come here and declare the next German PHEV a Tesla killer.

Benjamin

Pretty funny, as if Porsche, Audi, and BMW are going to just shoulder Tesla aside with their coming entries to the electric sport-luxury market.

I’ll bet those companies engineers had their head’s spin when Tesla released the dual motor versions earlier this year. Talk about trying to hit a moving target.

Germany does have a globally unique perspective on high speed car travel. I can understand some Germans being disappointed with the sustained high-speed performance of the Model S so far. I wonder if the P85D improves much on the lackluster sustained high-speed performance the author chronicles from the P85.

Range will always be an issue if you’re cruising at 125+mph, but on the P85D Tesla should design all the components to handle sustained speed near it’s max speed at least until the battery gets to be low.

liberty
I’ve got to side with the author on a few points. Interior? Yes audi and mercedes would have done it better. Tesla should hire some of those designers. User interface? Well review is a technophobe probably. That giant screen is a selling point. Tesla is giving competition a chance to catch up, and they don’t want to link to the gigafactory. Absolutely. Autobahn is better with a phev instead of a bev? Yep. Check. Now if LG and Samsung or Panasonic can’t catch up to tesla, I would bet vw group (porsche, audi, vw) and bmw will buy batteries from tesla as mercedes already does. That bmw 330e phev is going to be good competition for the model 3, and I bet it does better than it in europe, but worse in the US and china. Porsche? It won’t get the volume tesla does, even if it does get a better design. Let’s hope the tesla sucess gets our german manufacturers to embrace the plug-in and grow the market. I think that will be good for tesla too as a company, but might not be great for me as a stock holder. Still I have a huge profit on the… Read more »
Lensman

“I wonder if the P85D improves much on the lackluster sustained high-speed performance the author chronicles from the P85.”

Not any significant improvement. The Model S isn’t designed to run on the Autobahn, and I don’t see that changing unless we suddenly get batteries with a much higher energy density.

I had to laugh out loud when this writer, his sweaty desperation showing in every sentence, claimed “I predict that these [German make] cars will be vastly superior to Tesla’s models in terms of performance, refinement, and impact on the environment…”

Seriously? The Germans have some magic formula to overcome the hard reality that BEVs are rather limited in the amount of energy they can store onboard? Or perhaps they’ve suddenly discovered a way around the fact that wind resistance increases as the cube of speed… and thus avoid the rapid sucking away of EV range at Autobahn speeds? And also, the Germans will use unicorns and rainbows to make long-range, high performance BEVs using manufacturing which has virtually no carbon emissions?

This isn’t even worth a detailed response. It’s literally laugh-out-loud clueless.

Open-Mind

Consider how much Tesla has improved its Model S design over the last two years. AWD. Insane mode. Auto pilot. Software updates. Then compare that to their competition.

I really like my Volt, but its design has been plodding along for five years with only minor refinements. And now they finally redesign it from scratch to create … pretty much the same car. With slightly better range and acceleration.

If Tesla continues to innovate as they have been, they will be fine.

Speculawyer

I poo-pooed the AWD aspect. I’ve never felt the need for AWD since I grew up in Minnesota and never had a problem with 2WD on snow.

But I was wrong. AWD is a very popular feature AND, more importantly, it provides a way of improving efficiency by using different gear ratios for the front back motors.

These are advances that Tesla has made which keeps them ahead of their competitors that are desperately trying to catch up.

ItsNotAboutTheMoney

Er, no, Volt 2 is not going to be the same car. More range, more EV (better low-end acceleration), more efficient, more space, faster charging, and ditched the “futuristic” crap that made for bad interior ergonomics. All without raising price, and almost certainly improving profitability. Apparently also better heating and with an override on ERDTT. Plus it will be more efficient in CS mode and will take regular.

We won’t be upgrading our 2013, but the 2016’s shaping up to be a lot better car than the Gen 1.

Open-Mind

I mentioned the better range and acceleration. Interior room is about the same. Styling changes are subjective. Charge rate is still pretty low. Everything else is just minor improvements IMHO. All good, but not great.

In half the time, Teslas has doubled horsepower, added AWD, improved their interiors, added new safety features, added new navigation features, etc. They have raised the bar to “great”.

Marshal G

I stopped reading the article after the author claimed Tesla will have to compete with plug in hybrids from Caddilac. Hahahahahahahaha. Yeah how’s ELR sales going again?

Tesla’s first EV, the Roadster, sold only 2,250 models in 4 years.

If your uncontrollable laughter is based on the ELR sales over a year, they’ve already done better than Tesla did with the Roadster on a per-month basis, with 1,310 sales in one year.

Mike

Except the roadster was the very first car from a then new company with no track record.
The ELR as a warmed over, already in production, Chevy Volt from a huge, well established company.

JakeY

Also, the Roadster was a small cramped 2 seater that cost more than the ELR.

no comment

when you look at the AERs of some of the european PHEVs that are being introduced, the AER of the ELR is greater than all of those cars.

i think that there were 2 main problems facing the ELR: a)the experience of the Cadillac Cimmaron was such that you didn’t want people to look at a Cadillac and then point to another GM car that could be considered “similar”; b)the ELR was viewed as a premium “electric vehicle” and there was, i believe, an expectation that the AER of the ELR should have been greater than that of the Volt to justify the price difference.

i have to say that upon reconsideration, i am giving thoughts to getting an ELR before the thing goes out of production. i probably won’t do so because i really like my Chevrolet Volt, but it is something that i have been considering…

Speculawyer

Well yeah, sure . . . the Roadster didn’t sell great. It was a >$100K small 2-seater with no good charging infrastructure. It did not sell big numbers.

But it served its purpose . . . to show that you can build a great fun high-end EV that people will buy.

Marshal G
The roadster was a proof of concept car one notch above a kit car by a startup. It was always supposed to have a limited run, as I recall. The ELR was an embarrassing joke by an established “luxury” division of what was once the world’s largest carmaker. It was specifically pitched as a “Tesla killer” by many – but only by raising the price to roughly match a Tesla, as if that’s all Tesla is. It was either a total failure or the very model of a compliance car, take your pick. Either way, IMHO no Tesla does not “have to compete against” such small run one-offs in order to survive. The article seemed to imply that such competition was going to bury Tesla. So far at least it hasn’t happened. None of us have a crystal ball, but I can model current sales trajectories as good as anybody, and I can see ramping up Model S sales/production vs consistant compliance numbers by Caddy (and many others). The Germans admittedly look/sound a little more serious about moving some plugin metal, and autobahn driving may very well put Tesla at a disadvantage, along with Germans wanting to drive German car,… Read more »
Marshal G

re: Roadster
Tesla sold every one of those that were made, even after raising the price. The ELR needed steep discounts to sell more than double digits a month.

Marshal G

Also the Roadster came out in the depths of the Great Depression and still sold rather well.

I just added up the ELR’s total sales for the last year and a half and they still don’t match the Roadster’s total, and the economy is admittedtly a lot better now, especially for the class of people who buy luxury cars.

Marshal G

should be Recession. Dang when will we be allowed to edit?

Rob

The reason for only 2250 Roadster sales. That’s all the Lotus bodies Tesla ordered.

The Roadster was a proof of concept vehicle. Mr.Musk doesn’t see other EVs as his competition but rather all the ICE sales.

ItsNotAboutTheMoney

Cadillac’s not going to make NEDC-compliance PHEVs. They’ll be making PHEVs with reasonable range, that will allow EREV operation with blending for additional power. They’ve already started on it with the 2016 ELR.

As long as they don’t repeat the ELR pricing fiasco they could sell pretty well.

ffbj
It’s funny, looking forward to the comments that will skewer this article. When exactly did reporting turn into opinion? Well perhaps that is too much, since it is just an opinion piece with some factual information sprinkled in. Yes I suppose spanking the German luxury sedan makers in the public square would get them to stand up and take notice, (too painful to sit). Oh and now watch out here they come with there luxury ev’s, just what Musk always wanted anyway. We will see how that pans out. He sort of hands out a back-handed compliment by saying: “fun and fast yes, but insane please.” In other words he could have said as he did when he drove the original Model S could not keep up on the Autobahn but that the P85D was fully capable on that thoroughfare. Instead he makes a smarmy comment. Perhaps insane is a bit over the top to be fair. Though the whole article seems to have this arrogance concerning German automakers expertise. I am not saying they don’t make great automobiles, but clearly The Tesla is the premier luxury ev in the world, and they did not make it. Associating with Tesla… Read more »
MikeM

No question that Tesla has “poked the bear”. Multiple big nasty bears actually.
At first it seemed like a laughable tickle. Now it’s seeming more like a thrust with an extremely sharp stick.

Fingers crossed for Tesla and the sanity they are slowly bringing to the auto market.
Would be a terrible shame if Tesla’s quality, reliability, performance and respect for customer were to be rolled over by the auto-biz dinosaurs.

Jeff Songster

Germany is rightly proud of the excellent cars they have produced for many years. Tesla caught them and all of Detroit asleep at their ICE wheels. They will bounce back… but based on their slow adjustment so far… i3, and Porsche hybrids… It will be a while. The eGolf and the E audis are getting warmer… so in 2 or three years when Nissan is rolling out its LEAF2 and eNV200 in big numbers… the Tesla Model S and X are still eating Germany’s lunch and Model III is hitting the market in a big way… with the Gigafactory getting ready to spawn… and GM mass producing the volt and bolt… Germany should finally be hitting their stride with EVs. Now if they had adopted CHAdeMO, continued to work with Tesla and Nissan… they would be electrifying their lines now. The not invented here syndrome can really get in your way sometimes.

ffbj

A fair assessment.

Hardly. CHAdeMO is even worse for autobahn logistics than SC- Germany isn’t a nation that funnels its population into rabbit hutches, along island corridors.

As to the whole NIH spiel, the car business is not compartmentalized. More staffers are in the supply chain than in OEMs, and secrets don’t keep. Especially when OEMs and suppliers both poach from each other all the time… including Tesla hiring M-B staff, BMW hiring Volt engineers, and stealth companies now poaching everyone.

This ain’t The Godfather so much as Seinfeld.

Stimpacker

C&D is well known for their anti-Tesla bias.

One simple example is the fact that Tesla’s over-the-air SW update makes upgrading and bug fixing such a simple matter vs a traditional recall. Yet C&D calls that beta testing and that Tesla produces bad SW. My 2 other cars have had to go back to the dealers for simple SW updates (e.g. airbag reprogramming).

One dealer took that opportunity to do warranty work that I didn’t even ask for. He told me it could be a future issue so he took care of it for me (how nice). On the paperwork, he wrote that “customer complained about….” to justify his extra warranty work.

Anyways, if German car makers wanna produce good Tesla-like EVs, I’ll happily cheer them on. More EV choices the better. Please don’t forget the charging solution that will enable long distance driving.

Cosmacelf
This quote is *the* reason why other car companies won’t ever be able to catch up. The board member of a European carmaker tells me: “We won’t join [the gigafactory] precisely because we believe there will be advances in battery technology. We don’t want to be locked in with Tesla and their technology.” So they are just hoping that the battery industry will be able to deliver huge volumes of advanced li-on batteries at a cheap price, even when the suppliers will be in the cat bird seat since all the automakers will want to buy these batteries at the same time? Talk about not knowing what you don’t know. The auto industry is going to be playing around with luxury $100K cars at the same time the Model 3 comes out. And they won’t be able to catch up since they won’t have access to 500K batteries a year. You can say with 100% certainty TODAY that IF the gigafactory comes on line in a reasonable time, the rest of the auto industry won’t have a choice but to sit idly by while Tesla introduces a car for the masses. If you think the car brands are panicking now,… Read more »
Nonda Trimis

+1

Speculawyer

Oh, they may be right with that view. No one knows. A new battery technology could really become a game-changer. The Gigafactory is a risk . . . they could ramp up this big factory and then get blind-sided by a new battery technology.

It remains to be seen. Of course, if a new technology comes along, they could revise the Gigafactory to use that technology but they may lose a lot of their investment in the current technology manufacturing equipment.

I guess the Tesla people feel that their current battery technology is ‘good enough’ to make lower costing batteries once they apply really big mass manufacturing techniques.

Ryan

How many hundreds of new battery tech announcements have we seen in the past ten years? Will it happen? Sure… eventually. But the one thing we know about new tech is that it is almost always more expensive. So while “old” Li-ion batteries in the gigafactory are trudging towards $100/kwh the new tech will have people dealing with crazy high costs all over again.

Except, vendor lock-in is real, and carries its own crazy costs. That’s the hidden imperative of being in the supplier game. And thus, the necessary vigilance of anyone planning their out-year logistics.

Lensman

+10

CDAVIS

For Car & Driver’s editors to allow this kind of hack reporting to be published under their brand name lowers Car & Driver’s own credibility.

As a past fan of Car & Driver I’m saddened to see they went along with publishing this kind of article…

Joe

I was once a C&D subscriber but cancelled around 2007 after a string of editorials with an obvious anti EV bent. C&D come off to me as a bunch of stodgy Luddites that will cling to ICE until their dying day.

CDAVIS

@Joe said “C&D come off to me as a bunch of stodgy Luddites that will cling to ICE until their dying day.”

Although I’m disappointed with the recent above C&R referenced hack article, I do believe that C&R has been in the past balanced in their EV reporting and not generally Ludditish about EVs. Example:

http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/2015-tesla-model-s-p85d-first-drive-review

Londo Bell

A clash of cultures on vehicles b/n Europe & US, I believe. To be more precise, how vehicles are tested (for vehicle performance).

If one look @ US “style,” it often involves straight away and…well, that’s pretty much it. Only until recently has R&T started doing tests on Laguna Seca.

In Europe, pretty much all the featured tests are on tracks that involve lots of curves.

Though the P85D does very well on straight away, esp on strip race, its heavy body will most likely be its demise on European tracks, when EM keeps emphasizing the sportiness and power of the vehicle (which means, tests aren’t going to be P85D vs S-Class or 7 Series, etc., but more like versus other sports vehicles of those makes).

Finally, one point true about the Autobahn – when everyone is driving so fast at that speed, there really is no different between a 110 mph Tesla vs a 110 mph Escort (assuming the speed is reachable).

Nonda Trimis

Top Gear seemed to think it did well on the track through curves:

http://www.topgear.com/uk/car-news/tesla-model-s-p85d-review-first-drive-2015-05-11

no difference between an Escort and a Tesla on the Autobahn at 110? wha? Cant’t have it both ways – it is a heavy solid car that does very well at high speeds according to all of the reviews.

Londo Bell

I didn’t say that Tesla is “bad” in curves.

Top Gear also showed many vehicles that did well in curves, at various price range too.

The point being – it is NOT as spectacular, in a relative term, to other sport vehicles available in Europe, as EM or whoever wants you to believe in, and I believe that THAT is the point of the blog article.

As for as comparison on speed b/n Tesla & Escort – again, I’m NOT saying Tesla is bad on high speed. However, that doesn’t imply that other vehicles of lower (or much lower) price have poor performance at such speed. Again – not as “insane” (or whatever word) as EM makes it out to be.

Nonda Trimis

Your comments on Road and Track are inaccurate or at best mis-leading. I have been a subscriber for many years. Yes, maybe they just started track testing at Laguna Seca but you might be confusing R and T with Car and Driver. R ant T has always had a preference for road cars and specifically European cars and has not put much emphasis on 1/4 mile times. Peter Egan, pricipal editorial writer for many years is a road car scca guy and waxes poetic about almost every European Margue.

philip d

“A Model S owner posted this video of him driving 125 MPH on the Autobahn for about 12 minutes.” You can find the video doing a search. He had to slow down not because of any overheating but because the speed limit was lowered. So it seems that the power needed to maintain a constant 125 mph speed is below the threshold where it forces it to go into reduced power mode. That’s a lot faster than 110 mph. It might even be able to do short runs up to its new 150 mph limit while maintaining 125.

Lensman

Londo Bell said:

“In Europe, pretty much all the featured tests are on tracks that involve lots of curves.

“Though the P85D does very well on straight away, esp on strip race, its heavy body will most likely be its demise on European tracks…”

On the contrary, Londo.

Every single review I’ve read of the Model S gives high praise to its road-hugging performance and its ability to handle curves. The exceptionally low center of gravity caused by the heavy battery pack on the bottom of the car helps a lot.

Londo Bell

Please read my earlier response as it ahould clear up what I meant initially. Thanks.

Lensman

So what’s your point? That the Model S isn’t a sports car?

Thanks, we already knew it’s a luxury sedan. A large sedan with surprisingly superior performance and handling. That still doesn’t make it a sports car… but it handles much more like a typical sports car than like a typical luxury sedan!

Nonda Trimis

+1

Michael
Having driven on the autobahn several years and many thousand miles, I can tell you that in most areas, the number of vehicles going over 85 miles per hour is less than one in fifty, if that. The number going over 100 is less than one in a few hundred, and the number going over 120 is less than one in a thousand. I’d say the average speed for most of the autobahn is a little over 70 or 75 miles an hour when things are flowing. There are fast sections, three lanes in each direction or more, where the average speed creeps up over 80 during rush hours when traffic permits. People exaggerate the autobahn into something mythical, when it’s really just a very very well maintained highway. Most people driving on that highway are commuters. Yes, occasionally there’s a maniac on the road making full use of the freedom offered, but they are rare, as Germans are generally a very sensible people who don’t risk their lives for speed on a daily basis. So in reality, performance on the autobahn is not the only reason Tesla doesn’t sell well in Germany. That is some small part, but it’s… Read more »
AddLightness

“That’s why German carmakers are gearing up to attack Tesla at its own game. Porsche will launch a fully electric version of the next-generation Panamera, Audi is working on a fully electric crossover SUV, and BMW is targeting the upper segments with another i model.”

Ha, these may compete with the current Model S/X, but by the time they come out they will be behind.. and they still won’t have a competitor to the Model 3.

Journalists have been spewing this biased BS since before the Model S even came out. It was a hit out of the gate when it won just about every award possible and is “orders of magnitude” better now than it was.

Even after all of Tesla’s success arrogant people like this journalist can not admit that their favorite brands have been outdone by a newbie and will continue to be for many years.

German automakers are doing great things by soon offering nearly every model they make with a PHEV option.. with BMW also making EVs/PHEVs from the ground up with a whole new brand. But Tesla will not be beat at their own game for a long time.

MDEV

German car are really good, they were really good, after 4 BMW and 2 Mercedes good bye German cars. Germans talk too much about Autobhan, bla…bla…, check the videos of the Autobhan yes unlimited speed but most of the agermans drive 4 cylinder cars like scion, so what os yhe point? If you thonk that Germany freeways are full of 8 to 12 cylinder cars you are dreaming, gasoline is too expensive. They don’t buy Tesla because is not a German automaker and they still hold of the illusion of a German EV Tesla like and they got i3 nice efficient and dorky appealing car.

Greg

Plus I look at the complexity of these PHEV systems and all I see is many expensive components that can break down. The single most impressive thing about Teslas, to me anyway, is the simplicity of it. German brands are notorious for their expensive parts and service.

Plus no other carmaker has a charging network that makes even remotely as much sense as Tesla’s.

Braben

And yet, there is no evidence that the Model S is more reliable than other cars. They’ve had plenty of problems.

Also, the same simplicity is what will make it easy for other manufacturers to build similar cars if they want to. There isn’t really any technology in the Tesla that isn’t available elsewhere too. And companies like Samsung, LG Chem and Panasonic can build “giga factories” as well if they see a business case (you could probably call some of their factories “giga” already). The thing that sets Tesla apart is primarily the willingness to take huge risks on the business side.

Regarding the charging network, I hope other manufacturers do not imitate Tesla. We don’t need more proprietary charger systems that nobody else can use.

Yes, one could argue that both BYD and Germany already are:

http://cleantechnica.com/2015/02/19/german-gigafactory-ground-broken-europes-soon-largest-battery-factory/

Of course, since “giga” has no enforceable definition IRL, Tesla haters and fanboys can tussle over that all they want.

Greg

They could if they swallowed their pride and joined the network. It’s far better thought out than the rest.

And yes maybe, but I disagree, that the Model S has had “plenty” of problems. But considering most of the problems have been rectified and the fact that the Model S and Tesla have only been in the game for what? 3-5 years? that’s proof that the simplicity in the design makes it far easier to improve on engineering. The car is constantly being praised by review after review.

And if it’s so easy to copy then why aren’t other manufacturers doing it?

A battery tied to an electric motor…ah the simplicity. Give it time and you will see that the reliability of the Model S will top the list. My god other companies have been making ICEs for how long and they still can’t perfect it.

Braben

Not joining Tesla’s charging network has nothing to do with pride. No car manufacturer in their right mind would make themselves dependent on infrastructure that is controlled by a competitor. The only way to solve this dilemma is for everybody to get behind an industry standard that is not controlled by any single company.

Why do other manufacturers not build similar cars? Simple, it’s business. For companies like BMW and Mercedes sales like Tesla has them are peanuts. Contrary to what some people think, these companies make the bulk of their profits from their mid-tier models, not flagships like the 7-series or S-class where Tesla could potentially compete.

In terms of reliability, most of the complexity in today’s cars is not in the ICE, but the electronics and software, which affects EVs just as much as conventional cars.

Lensman

Well said.

The Model S is a long way from being a “simple” car. Electronically it’s quite complex, and it has unnecessary complexity in such things as the automatically extending door handles… an unneeded gee-whiz addition which has caused ongoing problems with dependability.

When the Model ≡ comes out, we’ll see a car somewhat closer to the ideal “simple” EV. But we’re never gonna see the EV equivalent of the Ford Model T, at least not in highway-capable cars sold in first-world countries. The Model T wouldn’t pass modern crash tests or other safety tests. Not only didn’t the Model T have air conditioning, rear window defrosters, cruise control, or other modern conveniences which buyers now expect to see as standard equipment; it didn’t even have turn signals!

GSP

Fun fact: Elon Musk owns an ICE car. What make and model?

It is a Ford Model T.

GSP

WRONG, Greg. The Tesla connector violates code in multiple countries; the US and Canada just happened to be on the OK list.

What part of “pride” involves published industry standards, let alone legal penalties?

Anon

Please quote overseas electrical code for thinner Tesla supercooled EV charge cables than can support safe delivery of over 130 kWh…

PVH

I can agree with some here that (for the time being) the Germans are not trying hard enough regarding EV’s but one aspect I am 100% certain is that the supercharger network is not what will make a difference. If for example by 2017, the big 3 (VW & Merc. & BMW) do have long range EV’s, one can be sure they will join forces and cover whatever territory with superchargers in a 1/5 of the time it took Tesla to do it.

PVH

I mean first of all they come rather cheap to intsll. Second the actual number is not in numbers worth noting for an industry. Around where I leave (Luxembourg), there are 3 in a radius of 200km. Even if there are 6 by 2017, it would still nothing. It should be 20, at least. We should plan its driving like an aviation pioneer according to were charging stations are.

Nix

Yawn. Call me when BMW or Mercedes or Audi starts building out their own 135 KW supercharger network.

Until then, it is all just hot air. The downfall of every German full EV will continue to be that it doesn’t have access to Tesla superchargers.

WRONG, Nix. The Tesla connector violates code in multiple countries; the US and Canada just happened to be on the OK list.

What part of “pride” involves published industry standards, let alone legal penalties?

How many times does it need to said?

Anon

Please quote overseas electrical code for thinner Tesla supercooled EV charge cables than can support safe delivery of over 130 kWh…

Greg

But Tesla’s Superchargers will already be there. I agree that the “big 3” could build out a network of Superchargers in a fraction of the time it took Tesla but where there’s a way there needs to be a will…and there is none because the “big 3”, as well as compete with Tesla, compete with each other. There would be too much grade 6 infighting.

You mean Tesla’s Superchargers, that use the same Mennekes connector that Europe (in stages) standardized before?

It was Tesla that swallowed their pride, and redesigned the Model S with Europe’s connector as the SC design is underbuilt.

Anon

You know there is no consensus on this subject. The new cable is even thinner and yet, is still designed to safely deliver even higher power levels than the current “underbuilt” design no one’s had a problem with, for the last couple years…

ModernMarvelFan

Elon won’t mind…

He said it himself… He is doing it b/c no existing automaker is willing to do it. If he sets the wave off, then he already got his wish.

Finally, someone with perspective.

Elon Musk clearly won’t die of starvation. If he dies having touched off the EV era, he can still die a historic figure if not a billionaire any more.

Anon

He will still make money, where others do not see the opportunity nor have the will, to do so.

Lensman

Regarding the linked article:

🙂 🙂 🙂

The desperation of German car makers, and their jealousy of Tesla’s resounding success in the luxury sedan (“saloon”) market, has never been more nakedly displayed.

And hey, I enjoy sarcastic humor. But the writer needs to learn that sarcasm is only funny when you actually have a point… which he failed at rather miserably in many cases.

Lensman
Braben said: “And yet, there is no evidence that the Model S is more reliable than other cars. They’ve had plenty of problems.” True, but the annual maintenance cost for the Model S is significantly lower than similarly-priced German make luxury cars. “Also, the same simplicity is what will make it easy for other manufacturers to build similar cars if they want to. There isn’t really any technology in the Tesla that isn’t available elsewhere too.” That’s like saying that there isn’t really any technology in a Porsche that isn’t available to Yugo. Compare the per-mile kWh consumption of the Nissan Leaf vs. the much heavier, much higher performance, and larger Model S. When EPA rated for range on the same driving cycle (2012-2013 ratings), they have almost exactly the same efficiency… a mere 1/4 of 1% difference. Only the BMW i3, with its carbon-fiber body, has an efficiency significantly higher than the Model S. Tesla is leading the way in the EV revolution with its superior EV technology. Claiming otherwise is ignoring reality pretty firmly. “And companies like Samsung, LG Chem and Panasonic can build “giga factories” as well if they see a business case…” Sure, they could. But… Read more »

Hellno there, Lensman. Another blanket statement of yours?

http://cleantechnica.com/2015/02/19/german-gigafactory-ground-broken-europes-soon-largest-battery-factory/

Have enough blanket left to reach China?

http://cleantechnica.com/2015/03/23/byd-gigafactory-to-be-worlds-2nd-battery-gigafactory/

Of course you do- you’re the gigafactory of blanket statements.

Lensman

Let’s see, the German “Gigafactory” plans to produce 5 GWh of batteries; BYD plans to produce 35 GWh.

Tesla’s Gigafactory plans to produce 50 GWh, appreciably more than both of those put together, and Tesla has already mentioned several times the possibility of a 2nd Gigafactory.

‘Nuff said.

Carlos

Well, many things to analyze, you can build bad cars by the millions and be quite successful (GM & Ford), ignore warning signals, go broke and be rescued with taxpayer money’s (GM and Chrysler), or build good cars but got into bad luck (Volvo, Saab), I think nobody could predict waht happened the last 10 year in the auto industry, But people tend to forget facts like young undergraduate people creating garage companies that become billion worth corporations (Microsoft, Apple, FB, etc)? Is Tesla a car company, an IT company, or both?, but so far has put pressure on traditional car companies, don’t tell me that without Tesla making fantastic cars the other companies wouldn’t investing in RD in order to create seamless products.

James

This post was a complete waste of time. I feel stupid for clicking on it, and even dumber for reading the original article.

Sveno

Nothing can touch Tesla and Leaf right now because those cars are labor of love – they were made because they wanted to make cars like that (Thats a wonderful idea, lets do it!).

No other manufacturer I know of does that. All other production EVs and PHEVs are are forced labor – they had to be made (If we don’t make them, then…).

Children of love always fare better. I have nothing against Volt, eGolf, Soul and others but they aren’t as soulful.

GSP

It seems that the author, Jens Meiners, “doesn’t know what he doesn’t know.” 🙂

People that know the car industry, but don’t know much about Tesla, or how to start a new business in general, can easily mislead themselves.

We will see what develops over the next five years or so. It will be interesting, I am sure.

GSP