BYD Chairman Calls For Stronger Government Support Of PHEVs

FEB 13 2018 BY MARK KANE 32

BYD plug-in electric car sales in China – December 2017

Wang Chuanfu, chairman and president of BYD Auto, proposed at the 2018 China EV100 Forum to increase promotion of plug-in hybrid cars to match BEV support.

BYD Song PHEV

Wang believes that PHEVs are the mainstream solution for private cars and thinks the government should exempt PHEVs from consumption tax, traffic control and purchasing restriction.

For BYD, the largest plug-in car manufacturer in China, it’s important as plug-in hybrids models accounts for most of company plug-in car sales.

Currently, all-electric vehicles hold some 80% share of the New Energy Vehicles market in China.

In other words, BYD is working to leverage its business. However, not everyone agrees. For example Yang Yusheng, a member of Chinese Academy of Engineering, said “PHEV is not a real kind of electric vehicle“.

“He also shared an anecdote at the forum. Certain PHEV buyers in Shanghai span off the vehicle’s battery for light weight and fuel efficiency. They used PHEVs as traditional fuel-fossil powered vehicles but with subsidies and free license plates.”

From the academician’s perspective, the right approach to cultivate NEV market is to develop safe and fuel-efficient electric vehicles with lower emissions, which should be yard stick for NEV. The focus of the industry should be put on battery electric subcompact vehicles and the range-extended battery electric mid-large vehicles, according to Yang.

It’s difficult to say whether the market will shift more towards PHEVs or not, especially in highly subsidized conditions.

Source: Gasgoo

Categories: BYD, China

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32 Comments on "BYD Chairman Calls For Stronger Government Support Of PHEVs"

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Viking79
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PHEVs can do more to reduce emissions than BEV as long as battery prices remain high (higher than the cost of an ICE for about 40 or 50 kwh), a 25 mile per day PHEV can offset maybe 6,500 miles per year of gas for only 9 kwh battery, but a 50 mile PHEV can offset maybe 13,000 miles per year of gas for only 18 kwh. My Clarity PHEV has already saved over 150 gallons of gas vs my minivan in 2 months (maybe 75 vs a gas car of similar MPG), and that is winter when its range isn’t great.

Robb Stark
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Robb Stark

In the Netherlands and China research shows people buy PHEVs for the incentives (in China including license plates they may not be able to get otherwise) and rarely if ever plugged in.

So it ends up PHEVs are heavy less efficient HEVs.

Viking79
Guest

Fair enough, if you don’t plug in it throws that entire situation out the window. However, my guess is most would plug them in. Do you have a link to the research that shows they don’t? Like the Volts in the US were just business leases that only paid to cover gas.

(⌐■_■) Trollnonymous
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(⌐■_■) Trollnonymous

Fleet vehicles for the state of CA that are PHEV’s, they rarely get charged. Some locations only have L1 charging and I hear them complain it’s more of a hassle to plug it in when it takes forever to charge. In many cases as one get’s checked in it’s the next car to be checked out so no chance of even charging.

I was in a garage that had 5 Plugins (some PHEV and others EV) and they only had a few L1 EVSE’s.

So if you want a gently used PHEV battery/car, wait for them to sell of that fleet as they were rarely cycled……lol

Nix
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Nix
Take-home fleet cars have a tax problem completely the fault of the tax code. Employees can’t be reimbursed for electricity on a pre-tax basis. If a company gives employees cash to cover charging at home, it is considered a benefit and is handled as income by the IRS. On the other hand, gas receipts are not counted as a benefit, and can be reimbursed at the full face value on the receipt. It gets booked as an expense. So yes, there is a very real problem. And yes, people are lazy at work and will park as close to the doors instead of parking at chargers with unassigned fleet PHEV’s. But neither of those issues apply to the VAST MAJORITY of PHEV’s that are purchased by the general public. On the other hand, we have actual real data from two different data-points on how PHEV’s are actually used. The first is Chevy’s release of on-star data for their entire Volt fleet. And they repeatedly show that the percent of EV usage is actually very high, despite some fleet car laggards. The second is voltstats.net which for the most part excludes fleet cars. It also shows a very high percent of… Read more »
Prsnep
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Prsnep

Total electric miles driven statistics for Chevy Volt would beg to differ with you.

https://evobsession.com/chevy-volt-drivers-average-nearly-as-many-electric-miles-as-nissan-leaf-drivers/

David Murray
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David Murray

Indeed. Ford even recently released information about their PHEVs and found the vast majority are plugged in regularly.

yogurt
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yogurt

This is very likely since they get a free license plate and get one period…

In China the license plate can cost 10k or more and their ICE license plates are limited in most cities…

So comparing a plugin Chevy or Ford to a BYD in China is total apples and oranges as Chevy and Ford plugin buyers are most likely the environmental type and BYD buyers could be but could also just be saving money on a plate and getting one now as opposed to waiting for one…

Nix
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Nix

So your contention is that buyers who want to save money by buying a PHEV wouldn’t also want to save even more money by fueling them with electricity instead of gas?

Windbourne
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Windbourne

Phev are worse than regular ice esp in China.

The reason is that phev owners will make heavy use of daytime charging. For china, that will a massive increase in their coal plants, combined with taxing an already loaded grid.

With EVs, that on the average day can do 2 days worth of driving, will mostly use nighttime charging. Yeah, for china, it still means heavy coal, but, it also means lots of hydro and wind.

Mark.ca
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Mark.ca

I doubt that very much. I bet even for China the best charging is daytime charging as more and more green energy comes online and unbalances the grid. Take a look at California’s grid data and you will get it.
http://www.caiso.com/TodaysOutlook/Pages/default.aspx

Jeremy
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Jeremy

BYD depends on PHEV.
Their LiFePO4 battery works for PHEV, but less and less for BEV.

yogurt
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yogurt

BYD has already switched chemistries away from LiFePO4 in their new PHEVs and are supposed to switch away from it in their BEVs this year…

BYD is losing money in subsidies as the Chinese gov is not giving as much money to the LiFePO4 cars as it is to NCA or NCM which are more energy dense and meet their energy density mandate…

David Murray
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David Murray

Can somebody clarify this statement:

“Certain PHEV buyers in Shanghai span off the vehicle’s battery for light weight and fuel efficiency.”

I’m not sure what “span” means in this case. By context, it sounds like they are removing it. Yet, we know most hybrids of any sort will not work without their HV battery. So that’s weird.

yogurt
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yogurt

Who knows with the translation but it would be silly as removing the battery and making it an ICE instead of using as a hybrid would reduce performance and fuel economy…

yogurt
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yogurt

Plugin hybrids were a bridge technology for when batteries were expensive and charging infrastructure was poor but that day has passed and I know longer feel that Plugin Hybrids should get any special treatment or subsidies…

BYDs bigger problem is that they dont have any small BEVs which is what the largest selling EVs are in China and that they are going to be swamped with completion from above below and laterally with the mandates coming into effect…

Nix
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Nix

So you are saying that EV’s have crossed the technology chasm, and have replaced all classes of gas cars and trucks, so there is no reason for PHEV’s? All EV’s now fast charge at 2-3 times as fast as Tesla Superchargers, so nobody has to wait to charge much longer than filling up with gas?

I’m an EV fan, but in reality EV’s don’t quite yet cover all the needs of all drivers across all classes of cars/trucks. There are still markets where a PHEV still span the gap between ICE and EV’s.

David Cary
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David Cary

Totally agree.
And to suggest that charging infrastructure is fully robust is crazy.

Now in some parts of the world – perhaps. My little neck had relatively great infrastructure 3 years ago but has stood still mostly.

Discussing China’s infrastructure and thinking it looks anything like my city would be crazy.

L2 at every parking spot. That is fully robust. L3 at every restaurant/grocery. Ok – then make PHEV’s go away.

I mean that would cost trillions – like as much as a small war might…

So tomorrow, I have to drive the Leaf so my wife can go drop my son off (in the S) at the in-laws. She will enjoy a new Sheetz based supercharger. I will have to drive a bit slow (although forecast is 70) to make my loop (no charging at work). Yesterday I had 91 on the battery with a 82 mile loop. Thankfully I had L2 at a work spot so I could drive fast. It is all workable but not perfect. We are living 2 more weeks with just a 120 at home.

(⌐■_■) Trollnonymous
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(⌐■_■) Trollnonymous

“and I know longer feel that Plugin Hybrids should get any special treatment or subsidies…”

Totally agree. It should only be full BEV to get subsidies or any perks like HOV lanes.

john1701a
Guest

You cannot agree. To do that means acknowledging batteries are no longer expensive… which means no reason for subsidies.

ItsNotAboutTheMoney
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ItsNotAboutTheMoney

No, he’s arguing that PHEVs aren’t worth supporting, because they allow people to buy bad hybrids for HOV, help manufacturers use their crappy Euro PHEVs, and distracts from a shift to real ZEV.

ItsNotAboutTheMoney
Guest
ItsNotAboutTheMoney

Translation: people will buy JV BEVs instead of ours.

Benz
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Benz

BYD should put their focus on designing a new BEV model that is more compelling than the BAIC EC-series, and also more compelling than the new Nissan Leaf.

And sell it in as many markets as they can.

The goal must be to sell a million copies of it each year (globally).

ModernMarvelFan
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ModernMarvelFan

Easy to fix the PHEV not plugging problem.

Like the Volt or BMW i3REx, make the gas mode less competent than the electric mode so there is a huge incentive to plug it in. (Volt requires a mountain mode to climb mountains and i3REx has a power limit mode in REx operation) And that is the ONLY type of PHEV that should get incentives.

Any PHEV that is mainly a HEV shouldn’t get any credits.

David Cary
Guest
David Cary

Good point.

We know that incentives distort. We can try to design them to prevent that but industry can move faster than government – particularly paralyzed governments like ours.

Perhaps we should scrap all this incentive stuff and just tax gas appropriately. Fixes traffic, fixes environment, takes money out of our enemies, and avoids all the gaming.

Sorry – I was dreaming….

Nix
Guest
Nix

The effective federal gas tax has actually been nearly cut in half by inflation since the last time it was raised.

The 18.4 cents per gallon gas tax would need to be nearly doubled to 33 cents per gallon just to keep it even with inflation since it was last raised in 1993. But according to Grover Norquist and his silly tax pledge, indexing taxes to inflation to keep them just even with the dropping value of the dollar is considered a tax increase. So we can’t even have a tax policy that recognizes that you can’t buy a gallon of gas for $1 dollar like you could in the early 1990’s.

Evz3
Guest
Evz3

Phev drivers in the netherlands that Are not paying for their gas Will not Plug in.

Not sure what the gas price is vs kWh price in other countries, but Here in the Netherlands electricity from the Home outlet barely competes with diesel fueled vehicles (price wise)

With Solar panels the Situationeel flips . IT makes sense (financially) to Drive on sunshine.

(Owner of bevs and phevs and regular hybrids)

Najeeb
Guest
Najeeb

Byd, the largest plug in car manufacturer in china” no sir it is the largest plug in car maker in the world.

Ron M
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Ron M

China understands EV and renewable energy is the future our President thinks Climate Change is a hoax perpetrated by the Chinese.

Lars
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Lars

Make all PHEVs preferring electric mode by default and make the add-on gas engine only to maintain the battery to have enough juice to drive the wheels. In this sense GM (Volt) the i3 got it almost perfect.

Markets differ. In North America the Volt got it right. The 53 mile (~ 80km) electric range is enough for almost everone’s daily commute/chores. For long trips the gas engine eliminates range anxiety. For the European market the new Nissan leaf with 150 mile (~240km) is more than OK, yes even in winter. For us in Canada well, depending on your life style but a 200 mile range would be better.
There is another problem. Accessabilty to home charging. Folks who live in high density housing, apartment/condo living, have a real problem. This is a real problem in Europe and I just assume in China.

Najeeb
Guest
Najeeb

Actually most of BYD’s Phev are not that bad . I would say they are comparable to volt. Most have elecyric range in the nieghborhood of 100 miles. So prople should be able to get their daily commutes in electric mode only.

Najeeb
Guest
Najeeb

Actually most of BYD’s Phev are not that bad . I would say they are comparable to volt. Most have electric range in the nieghborhood of 100 KMs. So prople should be able to get their daily commutes in electric mode only. ( sorry about the spellings in the earlier post)